Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Superman is in this battle to win and his opponents is as well. Everyone here is fighting smart and if it came down to it, they can kill their opponent. CIS and PIS is off for everyone...how far does he gets. Everything is allowed here. All powers are usable unless writers took this ability away from said characters. Let's get this started...

1. Firestorm
2. Captain Marvel
3. Wonder Woman (sstandard equipment)
4. Hal Jordan
5. Martian Manhunter
6. Orion (motherbox and harness included)
7. Genis
8. Thor
9. Silver Surfer
10. Sentry mentally stable

The DC peeps are pre Reboot versions. Where does Superman stop?

Clears.

lol @ putting sentry at the top of the list as if he is the most dangerous

Clears.

Some are more versatile, none are more powerful.

Superman clears with ease

Under these stips, SM stops hard at Silver Surfer.

Originally posted by burrrrrr
Under these stips, SM stops hard at Silver Surfer.
One word. Speedblitz.

Possibly stops at 5.

Originally posted by Stoic
Possibly stops at 5.
J'onn? Don't be ridiculous.

MM is really the only one I'd be uncertain of him beating.

Carver which version of Superman is this?

Originally posted by abhilegend
One word. Speedblitz. that's only if you forget how fast surfer is and that he's also fighting to the best of his abilities.

Originally posted by Star428
MM is really the only one I'd be uncertain of him beating.
Why? Superman can just start a fire and J'onn loses.

http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/24029392_JLA_21_pg06.jpg

Unlike surfer fans' who shout weakness exploiting in every thread and can't ever post a single scan of it? Superman has actually done it when he thought J'onn went rogue.

Originally posted by deathslash
that's only if you forget how fast surfer is and that he's also fighting to the best of his abilities.
I know how fast he is. That is not much.

So is Superman. At his best he punches Abstracts in half. Surfer is small potato compared to that.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Why? Superman can just start a fire and J'onn loses.

http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/24029392_JLA_21_pg06.jpg

Unlike surfer fans' who shout weakness exploiting in every thread and can't ever post a single scan of it? Superman has actually done it when he thought J'onn went rogue.


I didn't realize J'onn still had the fire weakness. I thought that was changed sometime during the pre-boot period. I'll take your word for it though.

Originally posted by Star428
I didn't realize J'onn still had the fire weakness. I thought that was changed sometime during the pre-boot period. I'll take your word for it though.
He still had it.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He still had it.



OK. In that case, I would agree that he probably clears.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He still had it. dude, he went intangible and phased through superboy prime's heat vision.

Originally posted by Juntai
Clears.

Some are more versatile, none are more powerful.

You have to stop smoking all of that weed.

Originally posted by deathslash
dude, he went intangible and phased through superboy prime's heat vision.

Good thing is SBP doesn't has the experience of Superman. Superman has harmed intangible beings like Weird with HV.

Yeah, intangibility is not a problem to cis-free Superman. He'd just modulate his heat vision accordingly.

But on topic: cis-free Superman beats the likes of Thor, Hulk, and Sentry silly. He might have some problems with Wonder Woman, though.

LMAO@ Superman having more problem with that overrated Amazon than those 3 you mentioned who are actually in his own tier.


I see WW fans are still drinking the kool-aid. Superman wouldn't even need to be be going all-out or need for CIS or PIS to be turned-off to beat her without even really trying. She admitted herself she couldn't beat him. Get over it.

Which Genis?

Surfer shitstomps him..CIS and PIS free equals opening a black hole in his chest..insane genis stomps as well.

Originally posted by Genii96
Surfer shitstomps him..CIS and PIS free equals opening a black hole in his chest..insane genis stomps as well. Being free of pis and cis doesn't mean he's going fight in ways that he's never done and disregard life. (including his own, as he was unable to escape black holes a few times in his own books and had to be rescued from them.)

Superman is several orders of magnitude more powerful than Surfer. He's just not as versatile.

Perhaps you have an example of Surfer opening a black hole inside a sentient being or even simply defeating someone in the trans tier and up by simply overpowering them on his own?

I mean black holes nearly kill him. He had to plot device ego/ threaten to steer ego's engines into a sun. Runner made him a *****. Thanos makes him a *****. Galactus makes him a *****. Odin made him a *****. Etc etc.

Surfer needs to concentrate on being able to edge a solid win out of Thor before anyone can really take him serious at higher levels like an unbound Superman. As Thor tends to slap him around too.

Originally posted by Mindset
Which Genis?

Photon.

CIS PIS free? So OWAW Mindset? Clears.

Originally posted by Juntai
Being free of pis and cis doesn't mean he's going fight in ways that he's never done and disregard life. (including his own, as he was unable to escape black holes a few times in his own books and had to be rescued from them.)

Superman is several orders of magnitude more powerful than Surfer. He's just not as versatile.

Perhaps you have an example of Surfer opening a black hole inside a sentient being or even simply defeating someone in the trans tier and up by simply overpowering them on his own?

I mean black holes nearly kill him. He had to plot device ego/ threaten to steer ego's engines into a sun. Runner made him a *****. Thanos makes him a *****. Galactus makes him a *****. Odin made him a *****. Etc etc.

Surfer needs to concentrate on being able to edge a solid win out of Thor before anyone can really take him serious at higher levels like an unbound Superman. As Thor tends to slap him around too.
A weakened Thor made Surfer his ***** recently. Surfer couldn't even hurt him by several cheapshotted board attacks from behind and even with a point blank energy blast.

While Thor was simply slapping him around like a child.

Originally posted by carver9

Photon.
Multiversal destroyer (at peak) ... and Omniversal awareness at will.

That would be a pis/cis free Photon.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Multiversal destroyer (at peak) ... and Omniversal awareness at will.

That would be a pis/cis free Photon. He was such a disappointment.

Insane Genis was one of my favorite characters too.

^^ ... They made Photon too powerful for a team with its own book,
this is why he was riddled with pis/cis cause they couldn't write him with substance.

Originally posted by Juntai
Being free of pis and cis doesn't mean he's going fight in ways that he's never done and disregard life. (including his own, as he was unable to escape black holes a few times in his own books and had to be rescued from them.)

Superman is several orders of magnitude more powerful than Surfer. He's just not as versatile.

Perhaps you have an example of Surfer opening a black hole inside a sentient being or even simply defeating someone in the trans tier and up by simply overpowering them on his own?

I mean black holes nearly kill him. He had to plot device ego/ threaten to steer ego's engines into a sun. Runner made him a *****. Thanos makes him a *****. Galactus makes him a *****. Odin made him a *****. Etc etc.

Surfer needs to concentrate on being able to edge a solid win out of Thor before anyone can really take him serious at higher levels like an unbound Superman. As Thor tends to slap him around too.
Surfer has fought inside black holes lmao, superman isn't a trans tier,comparing him to odin,galactus(really?),ego who faced galactus?thanos? What a joke
Oh btw,pis/cis free supes(by ur logic on surfer) won't fight any different than what he normally does right?
Actually he can do that,among other things
http://i.imgur.com/WWuXD1y.jpg
He also messed with the insides of the super skrull,skrulls can alter their own molecules,yet he couldn't do squat when surfer began messing with his organs,ofcourse this dosent count draining him dry,transmitting red sun radiation,or kryptonite either...

Only thing supes has over surfer is strength feats,and tats only because surfer barely goes h2h.
Everything else surfer easily bests him at

Originally posted by Genii96
Surfer has fought inside black holes lmao,

One time shielded by his PC. He was almost crushed to death two times, knocked out by another and one time shit scared to enter it.



Yes. He doesn't.

Surfer saying something doesn't means he can do that.

When he actually creates a black hole in someone's body, call me.

Did he now? Superman has resisted transmutation from better and more powerful characters than surfer as well.

He can't drain Superman. Nope.

He has never used red sunlight or kryptonite in a fight either. Surfer isn't reading your posts to fight.

Only thing supes has over surfer is strength feats,and tats only because surfer barely goes h2h.


Otherwise he would be as strong as Superman? Hahaha.

Not really. Superman is easily more durable, much faster and punches harder than surfer can take.

He is more powerful too. Surfer is more versatile with his power set but that's it.

When it comes to get the job done? Superman all day, every day. He has taken the measure of people more powerful than Surfer and beat the **** out of them.

surfer drains him like a bamboo stick...or does to him what he going to do to kallark.....simple............and genis shitstomps him too

Originally posted by Genii96
surfer drains him like a bamboo stick...
Actually, it's the other way around. Superman drains Surfer. Silver Surfer is quite vulnerable to energy drain, and Superman is one of the strongest solar (and related) energy absorbers in comics.

Lots of beings with a talent or tech to absorb energy have drained Surfer, including Dr. Doom, Reed Richards, High Evolutionary, Red Hulk... oh and also some random giant worm who could drink solar energy (sound familiar?).

Superman is not draining Surfer and they are some really bad examples to use.

Originally posted by Magnon
Actually, it's the other way around. Superman drains Surfer. Silver Surfer is quite vulnerable to energy drain, and Superman is one of the strongest solar (and related) energy absorbers in comics.

Lots of beings with a talent or tech to absorb energy have drained Surfer, including Dr. Doom, Reed Richards, High Evolutionary, Red Hulk... oh and also some random giant worm who could drink solar energy (sound familiar?).

What is KMC turning into.?

superman draining surfer, gonna remember that one

You guys just don't know your comics.

1) Superman has drained beings who possess solar-power-like energies.
2) Silver Surfer has been drained by a being who can drain solar energy. He is very vulnerable to energy drain in general; such attacks rarely fail against Surfer.
3) Superman's ability to absorb solar energies is in no way inferior to that of Red Hulk or the solar-drinking-worm (both of whom can absorb Surfer's power).

=> Superman quite probably can drain Silver Surfer. It's a solid case so deal with it, fanboyz. The only side effect is that Superman's X-Ray vision might play some tricks afterwards:
https://dcomixologyssl.sslcs.cdngc.net/i/1646/39637/a4d020c202257a6e44332c4d1ec72b84.jpg?h=39483f0933ac90f5300d285842320fee

Originally posted by Genii96
Surfer shitstomps him..CIS and PIS free equals opening a black hole in his chest..insane genis stomps as well. Surfer can't create a black hole in someone moving as fast as Superman can move. Superman could simply sing all of them out of existence. /thread

Sentry with no CIS would destroy him. Its basically a character that can do anything Clark can do and more.

Originally posted by Magnon
3) Superman's ability to absorb solar energies is in no way inferior to that of Red Hulk

facepalm

Early Ross' Hulk was a ridiculous character with no limits, written with only one purpose - trolling fans.

Rulk's energy absorption allowed him to one-shot Uatu and kill Grandmaster. Superdouche is nothing in comparison.

Originally posted by Genii96
surfer drains him like a bamboo stick...or does to him what he going to do to kallark.....simple............and genis shitstomps him too
Originally posted by Magnon
You guys just don't know your comics.

1) Superman has drained beings who possess solar-power-like energies.
2) Silver Surfer has been drained by a being who can drain solar energy. He is very vulnerable to energy drain in general; such attacks rarely fail against Surfer.
3) Superman's ability to absorb solar energies is in no way inferior to that of Red Hulk or the solar-drinking-worm (both of whom can absorb Surfer's power).

=> Superman quite probably can drain Silver Surfer. It's a solid case so deal with it, fanboyz. The only side effect is that Superman's X-Ray vision might play some tricks afterwards:
https://dcomixologyssl.sslcs.cdngc.net/i/1646/39637/a4d020c202257a6e44332c4d1ec72b84.jpg?h=39483f0933ac90f5300d285842320fee
What worm drained Surfer? Issue number?

Originally posted by tkitna
Sentry with no CIS would destroy him. Its basically a character that can do anything Clark can do and more.

Superman isn't draining Surfer and Surfer isn't opening a black hole in Clark's body in the middle of a fight.

Get your fanboi heads out of your asses, people.

^^^ actually surfer said he could do that

Originally posted by tkitna
Sentry with no CIS would destroy him. Its basically a character that can do anything Clark can do and more. He can't do what Clark does if he doesn't know how. Clark is faster and can sing beings out of existence.

Originally posted by Genii96
^^^ actually surfer said he could do that Surfer actually did it. But this was against someone who just stood there.

Superman clears with ease.

I'm so ****ing proud of you guys...

Superman takes it also, he's in a league of his own under these stipulations.

Originally posted by kevdude
Superman takes it also, he's in a league of his own under these stipulations.

Agreed, but not for the reasons many are citing

Originally posted by abhilegend

What worm drained Surfer? Issue number?
It was Groot something. Here's a scan:
http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/sp/9aa8d211074fa9648154e6d42b66360d/Groot_2015-_003-016.jpg

A CIS less Sentry rips Superman in half

Originally posted by h1a8
He can't do what Clark does if he doesn't know how. Clark is faster and can sing beings out of existence.

Singing ftw.

Lol superman is a tier all in his own. Amazing

Abhi is laughing on the outside but crying inside as he knows every one sees through the abstract Superman cult

Originally posted by h1a8
He can't do what Clark does if he doesn't know how. Clark is faster and can sing beings out of existence.

Clark being faster is debatable, but then again DC comics seems to put measurements alongside their characters like nanoseconds and so forth while Marvel doesnt do silly stuff like that. Anyway, I didnt know Clark had such a lovely voice. Thats wonderful. Besides Sentry having the same powerset as Clark, he's also a powerful matter manipulator, a telepath, has no weakness to magic or green rocks, and doesnt need a constant supply of solar energy to keep him at peak levels. With CIS off Sentry wins.

Gauntlet ..no rest between fights? He should stop hard at Hal. Damn sure aint clearing

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Abhi is laughing on the outside but crying inside as he knows every one sees through the abstract Superman cult
crylaugh

Originally posted by Insane Titan
A CIS less Sentry rips Superman in half

If his delusional fantasies, maybe. Meanwhile , Superman punches Sentry out of existence and/ or uses the Music of the Spegeres to destroy him.

Originally posted by tkitna
Clark being faster is debatable, but then again DC comics seems to put measurements alongside their characters like nanoseconds and so forth while Marvel doesnt do silly stuff like that. Anyway, I didnt know Clark had such a lovely voice. Thats wonderful. Besides Sentry having the same powerset as Clark, he's also a powerful matter manipulator, a telepath, has no weakness to magic or green rocks, and doesnt need a constant supply of solar energy to keep him at peak levels. With CIS off Sentry wins. It's not debatable. Superman has the greater speed feats. These are fictional characters.
Sentry has no defense against being sung out of existence.

Originally posted by h1a8
It's not debatable. Superman has the greater speed feats. These are fictional characters.
Sentry has no defense against being sung out of existence.

Based on what? Sentry is a psionic manifestation of Bob's mind. What you apply to other characters can not be applied to the Sentry. He was dead, and then he came back. It's obvious that he is beyond the realms of Death and Life, and that they do not apply to him/it. If not, prove that he can be sung out of existence.

Originally posted by Stoic
Based on what? Sentry is a psionic manifestation of Bob's mind. What you apply to other characters can not be applied to the Sentry. He was dead, and then he came back. It's obvious that he is beyond the realms of Death and Life, and that they do not apply to him/it. If not, prove that he can be sung out of existence. What are you talking about? Are you claiming that Sentry can't be sung out of existence? Prove that Sentry is a psionic manifestation of Bob's mind. Even if that's true, then Bob still loses the match once he loses his body.

Originally posted by h1a8
What are you talking about? Are you claiming that Sentry can't be sung out of existence? Prove that Sentry is a psionic manifestation of Bob's mind. Even if that's true, then Bob still loses the match once he loses his body.

This is pretty much the whole basis for the Void and the Sentry though mate. The Sentry is Robert Reynolds representation of Good. And the Void is a representation of all the bad parts of him being a drug dealer, Schizophrenic etc.

Robert Reynolds at his uttermost base operates as just a soul.

Originally posted by h1a8
What are you talking about? Are you claiming that Sentry can't be sung out of existence? Prove that Sentry is a psionic manifestation of Bob's mind. Even if that's true, then Bob still loses the match once he loses his body.


Bob existed in a universe of his own making when not taking the role of the Sentry. In order to defeat him, you would have to defeat him in a universe/reality of his own making. This singing out of existence thing does not apply to him. Scott do you have the scans of him when Emma visits him inside of his mind or universe of his own making?

Originally posted by Stoic
Bob existed in a universe of his own making when not taking the role of the Sentry. In order to defeat him, you would have to defeat him in a universe/reality of his own making. This singing out of existence thing does not apply to him. Scott do you have the scans of him when Emma visits him inside of his mind or universe of his own making?

It wasn't really a Universe of his own making or anything though. It was something Emma Frost created for Robert himself when he went off his medication once. It isn't like an alternate Universe where he resides. They reside psionically in that realm but they are still on Earth while there.

http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/24262765_1.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/24262769_2.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/24262770_3.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/24262772_4.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/24262774_5.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/24262776_6.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/24262777_7.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/24262778_8.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/24262780_9.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/24262783_10.jpg

Although it's worth mentioning (perhaps more to H1) is that this comic makes it easier to understand the Void being a psionic manifestation. As soon as Robert comes around again. The Void instantly dissipates.

http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/24262921_1.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/24262922_2.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/24262923_3.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/24262925_4.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/24262927_5.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/24262931_6.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/24262934_7.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/24262936_8.jpg

Also to H1, I can explain this a bit more indepth if you want.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
It wasn't really a Universe of his own making or anything though. It was something Emma Frost created for Robert himself when he went off his medication once. It isn't like an alternate Universe where he resides. They reside psionically in that realm but they are still on Earth while there.

http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/24262765_1.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/24262769_2.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/24262770_3.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/24262772_4.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/24262774_5.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/24262776_6.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/24262777_7.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/24262778_8.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/24262780_9.jpg http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/24262783_10.jpg


Where was Bob's body then? If Sentry is a manifestation of Bob's mind where does Bob go when the Sentry is running around? This is why I said that he had to have been in a reality of his own making. Also how could Emma create something that was already there? I'd really like a solid explanation of the Sentry. I still believe that my understanding of most of his powers are on point minus a few discrepancies.

Originally posted by Stoic
Where was Bob's body then? If Sentry is a manifestation of Bob's mind where does Bob go when the Sentry is running around? This is why I said that he had to have been in a reality of his own making. Also how could Emma create something that was already there? I'd really like a solid explanation of the Sentry. I still believe that my understanding of most of his powers are on point minus a few discrepancies.

Bobs body was inside the forcefield.

Presumably from how the comics carried on Bob simply morphs into the Sentry and later on morphs into the Void.

Although earlier on like in Sentry Vol 2 this wasn't the case.

My point about it being created was a reference to Emma saying this when Sentry was fighting Namor.

I can help you with an explanation if you want mate. What sort of things are you looking for.

That's an interesting take on his powers Scot

Originally posted by Sin I AM
That's an interesting take on his powers Scot

What you mean where I was talking about them being Psionic manifestations?

(just wanted to clarify so I didn't reply to something you wasn't referencing)

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Although it's worth mentioning (perhaps more to H1) is that this comic makes it easier to understand the Void being a psionic manifestation. As soon as Robert comes around again. The Void instantly dissipates.

http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/24262921_1.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/24262922_2.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/24262923_3.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/24262925_4.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/24262927_5.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/24262931_6.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/24262934_7.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/24262936_8.jpg

Also to H1, I can explain this a bit more indepth if you want.

I knew that void was a physical manifestation. Hard light construct created by Sentry actually. I need proof for Sentry himself being one also.

Originally posted by Stoic
Where was Bob's body then? If Sentry is a manifestation of Bob's mind where does Bob go when the Sentry is running around? Not trying to step on Scot's toes here, but during that particular scene, the 'Bob' persona became dormant because Void had been unleashed:
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/24263558_New-Avengers-09-pg-004.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/24263575_New-Avengers-09-pg-005.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/24263561_New-Avengers-09-pg-006.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/24263564_New-Avengers-09-pg-007.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/24263569_New-Avengers-09-pg-008.jpg


Liken it to Banner/Hulk. When Banner is calm, the Hulk persona stays dormant and he is just a peaceful, happy go lucky scientist. However, when Banner gets angry, the Hulk persona takes the stage, and 'Banner' is put on the 'mental-backburner'. This is very similar to what happens with Bob/Sentry when the Void is unleashed. Cosmic schizophrenia.

Maybe Scot has a different take, but that's how I've always viewed it. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
Not trying to step on Scot's toes here, but during that particular scene, the 'Bob' persona became dormant because Void had been unleashed:
http://i.imgur.com/qrioYHKm.jpg


Liken it to Banner/Hulk. When Banner is calm, the Hulk persona stays dormant, and he is just a peaceful, happy go lucky scientist. However, when Banner gets angry, the Hulk persona takes the stage, and 'Banner' is put on the 'mental-backburner'. This is very similar to what happens with Bob/Sentry when the Void is unleashed.

Maybe Scot has a different take, but that's how I've always viewed it. /shrug

I agree with you mate. It just looks different from Sentry Vol 2 progressing into SIEGE purely because of Robert slowly and more slowly becoming more insane as time goes on. Back in Sentry Vol 2 even though Robert was unstable he was able to retain a form of semblance. And it was only when he was really pressed (by Dr Cornelius for example) that he goes crazy and they come out.

It's kind of hard to debate the differing scenes of Sentry Vol 2 up to SIEGE but I find what you and me have said is the best way to explain it.

Originally posted by h1a8
I knew that void was a physical manifestation. Hard light construct created by Sentry actually. I need proof for Sentry himself being one also.

Right okay then. I'll show you this one.

When Robert/Sentry/Voidtry "died". Obviously he is a charred corpse.

Nicked this image from Galan.

http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/24263542_hQcIFoC.jpg

So you think Robert is dead. But he isn't. Since we see here when he is back.

http://i.imgur.com/lby4v7r.jpg1

He was a skeleton. Yet his soul existed without his body against the Void to get control of his body. You may think I haven't answered your question. This again is an answer for both characters.

This explains it even more deeply. You see the words Dr Cornelius says himself.

http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/24263652_1.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/24263653_2.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/24263654_3.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/24263655_4.jpg

Although as the comics progress Robert steadily becomes more unstable and he himself turns into the Void. And he for the most part always stays as the Sentry. Although like I said this can be attributed to his mental instability.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Bobs body was inside the forcefield.

Presumably from how the comics carried on Bob simply morphs into the Sentry and later on morphs into the Void.

Although earlier on like in Sentry Vol 2 this wasn't the case.

My point about it being created was a reference to Emma saying this when Sentry was fighting Namor.

I can help you with an explanation if you want mate. What sort of things are you looking for.

Well I'm thrown in two different directions. We know that DS Sentry is just Sentry with augmentations, but it did not change the way that his powers work, just gave him a greater focal point on the use of his powers (IfI'm not mistaken). However if Bob morphed into this Super Strong construct, how is it that Bob is not killed when he rips his head open? Bob himself is not immortal... See where the confusion comes up? It would be far easier to imagine that Bob shifts into a reality of his own making, and manifests the Sentry while he is in that place? I'd really like to write these ideas for Marvel to go over, because the discrepancies surrounding Robert Reynolds make people go in several different directions when trying to understand exactly what he is, and how his power work or come from.

Originally posted by Stoic
Well I'm thrown in two different directions. We know that DS Sentry is just Sentry with augmentations, but it did not change the way that his powers work, just gave him a greater focal point on the use of his powers (IfI'm not mistaken). However if Bob morphed into this Super Strong construct, how is it that Bob is not killed when he rips his head open? Bob himself is not immortal... See where the confusion comes up? It would be far easier to imagine that Bob shifts into a reality of his own making, and manifests the Sentry while he is in that place? I'd really like to write these ideas for Marvel to go over, because the discrepancies surrounding Robert Reynolds make people go in several different directions when trying to understand exactly what he is, and how his power work or come form.

You're correct that it basically gave him a focal point. The Death Seed replaced the hole left by the Void. Sentry now had a cause (to protect humans and kill "cancerous mutants".

I'm not sure entirely what you mean here,

"However if Bob morphed into this Super Strong construct, how is it that Bob is not killed when he rips his head open?"

(If I am incorrect in replying to this please let me know)

I don't know what you mean specifically by Super Strong construct (unless by that you mean the Sentry himself).

It is explained by what Bob mentions here.

http://i.imgur.com/n9R3FHY.jpg1

This mortal shell is only flesh and the soul is what drives him. So even if he was killed (Molecule Man, Morgana Le Fay for examples). Bob just wishes himself back because he is still alive as a soul.

But remember in the past he was always exploring his new powers. But presumably as Death Sentry he is 100% Stable so he now understands everything. Bob himself is immortal (at least as a soul). So this can be extrapolated that the Sentry and the Void are mental constructs. And even the very body of Robert Reynolds himself is also a mental construct. Because how otherwise did he survive death at the end of SIEGE? (< meant that as a rhetorical question)

I disagree that he manifests in another reality like you have mentioned. The way I see it is perhaps in the middle of Roberts body (and his personas). There is an invisible orb of energy (that you call a soul).

Describe how a soul looks however you like to be honest. And then when he dies he can either come back or not. Like MM or fighting the Void so he can remain a skeleton.

We can't say where this soul exists. It could be in a village in Belize when he dies (this is meant sarcastically). I just think the souls lingers inside Roberts body. Then when his body is wiped. His soul is the only thing that lives since essentially that is the Sentry. Not the artificial constructs created by it.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
You're correct that it basically gave him a focal point. The Death Seed replaced the hole left by the Void. Sentry now had a cause (to protect humans and kill "cancerous mutants".

I'm not sure entirely what you mean here,

"However if Bob morphed into this Super Strong construct, how is it that Bob is not killed when he rips his head open?"

(If I am incorrect in replying to this please let me know)

I don't know what you mean specifically by Super Strong construct (unless by that you mean the Sentry himself).

It is explained by what Bob mentions here.

http://i.imgur.com/n9R3FHY.jpg1

This mortal shell is only flesh and the soul is what drives him. So even if he was killed (Molecule Man, Morgana Le Fay for examples). Bob just wishes himself back because he is still alive as a soul.

But remember in the past he was always exploring his new powers. But presumably as Death Sentry he is 100% Stable so he now understands everything. Bob himself is immortal (at least as a soul). So this can be extrapolated that the Sentry and the Void are mental constructs. And even the very body of Robert Reynolds himself is also a mental construct. Because how otherwise did he survive death at the end of SIEGE? (< meant that as a rhetorical question)

I disagree that he manifests in another reality like you have mentioned. The way I see it is perhaps in the middle of Roberts body (and his personas). There is an invisible orb of energy (that you call a soul).

Describe how a soul looks however you like to be honest. And then when he dies he can either come back or not. Like MM or fighting the Void so he can remain a skeleton.

We can't say where this soul exists. It could be in a village in Belize when he dies (this is meant sarcastically). I just think the souls lingers inside Roberts body. Then when his body is wiped. His soul is the only thing that lives since essentially that is the Sentry. Not the artificial constructs created by it.

I get that, but where is this soul? For me it seems like DS Sentry, Void, and Sentry are just cast off bodies, while Bob exist in some sort of null space as the puppeteer. I guess that we can look at it from different points of view? I'd really love for marvel to nail his powers down and make some sort of tangible sense. I've always thought of Sentry as an idea withing Bob's mind made solid while he disappeared into that white space that was visited by Emma, but now seeing the scans that you presented makes that idea less likely because we actually see Bob's physical body, unless that was also a construct of his making? Marvel should really attempt to make more sense of this character, because he's one of the more interesting ones out there.

Originally posted by Galan007
Not trying to step on Scot's toes here, but during that particular scene, the 'Bob' persona became dormant because Void had been unleashed:
http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/24263558_New-Avengers-09-pg-004.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/24263575_New-Avengers-09-pg-005.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/24263561_New-Avengers-09-pg-006.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/24263564_New-Avengers-09-pg-007.jpg http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/24263569_New-Avengers-09-pg-008.jpg


Liken it to Banner/Hulk. When Banner is calm, the Hulk persona stays dormant and he is just a peaceful, happy go lucky scientist. However, when Banner gets angry, the Hulk persona takes the stage, and 'Banner' is put on the 'mental-backburner'. This is very similar to what happens with Bob/Sentry when the Void is unleashed. Cosmic schizophrenia.

Maybe Scot has a different take, but that's how I've always viewed it. /shrug

I think that you're partially correct, but some things don't jive. Something is missing.

Originally posted by Stoic
I get that, but where is this soul? For me it seems like DS Sentry, Void, and Sentry are just cast off bodies, while Bob exist in some sort of null space as the puppeteer. I guess that we can look at it from different points of view? I'd really love for marvel to nail his powers down and make some sort of tangible sense. I've always thought of Sentry as an idea withing Bob's mind made solid while he disappeared into that white space that was visited by Emma, but now seeing the scans that you presented makes that idea less likely because we actually see Bob's physical body, unless that was also a construct of his making? Marvel should really attempt to make more sense of this character, because he's one of the more interesting ones out there.

If I am 100% honest I don't know. And I don't expect anyone on this board to give you a definitive answer because no such one exists.

You'd have to contact Paul Jenkins or Brian Michael Bendis to find this out. Nobody here knows.

The whole point is I think I see where your idea is coming from. It's like losing a piece to a 5000 piece puzzle and you have found that piece and now it fits.

I take the opinion that since as of now. There is a puzzle piece in that missing spot. But the puzzle piece is translucent. It isn't a full piece.

We have to look at what we see in the comics. In my opinion, what we see from Emma and Bob in the White Room is that that was created so that Bob could be calmed in times of crisis.

When one of his physical bodies is killed. Say like when Molecule Man obliterated him x times and when Morgana Le Fay dissipated him. There was nothing there. So where was this piece of ectoplasm?

I can't really say "It is in this place" (I know you aren't saying this to me).

We have to look at what is the most likely thing and for me at least is that it's floating around or near Sentry/Robert/Void to some extent. But exactly where I don't know.

But I see how the point you bring up is helpful to explain the missing puzzle piece.

We would have to assume that Bobs actual body itself is at least a psionic construct of himself at one point.

I don't think it always was since at one point he was a Homo Sapien in the purest sense. And even though he is still one as the Sentry. His whole being changed. It's a very interesting topic to discuss

(like you noted)

I just don't think many of the writers out there want to do it or just don't know enough about the character to do it.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
If I am 100% honest I don't know. And I don't expect anyone on this board to give you a definitive answer because no such one exists.

You'd have to contact Paul Jenkins or Brian Michael Bendis to find this out. Nobody here knows.

The whole point is I think I see where your idea is coming from. It's like losing a piece to a 5000 piece puzzle and you have found that piece and now it fits.

I take the opinion that since as of now. There is a puzzle piece in that missing spot. But the puzzle piece is translucent. It isn't a full piece.

We have to look at what we see in the comics. In my opinion, what we see from Emma and Bob in the White Room is that that was created so that Bob could be calmed in times of crisis.

When one of his physical bodies is killed. Say like when Molecule Man obliterated him x times and when Morgana Le Fay dissipated him. There was nothing there. So where was this piece of ectoplasm?

I can't really say "It is in this place" (I know you aren't saying this to me).

We have to look at what is the most likely thing and for me at least is that it's floating around or near Sentry/Robert/Void to some extent. But exactly where I don't know.

But I see how the point you bring up is helpful to explain the missing puzzle piece.

We would have to assume that Bobs actual body itself is at least a psionic construct of himself at one point.

I don't think it always was since at one point he was a Homo Sapien in the purest sense. And even though he is still one as the Sentry. His whole being changed. It's a very interesting topic to discuss

(like you noted)

I just don't think many of the writers out there want to do it or just don't know enough about the character to do it.


Agreed. This is a little off topic, but if I were to write Sentry, I'd retcon several events. In order for him to make sense, I would actually have him create his own reality that he himself was the almighty (see The Matrix movie to get an idea). The Sentry, Void, DS Sentry, would be physical manifestations or cast off bodies/avatars that he would use to interact with the real world. They would be real, but not true biological beings, which would not be too far off from what we have now, and that is if what I am saying isn't exactly what they are doing or trying to portray. Anyway, back on topic; I have a difficult time believing that any character that can so easily over power Thor, and then throw him so hard that he ends up light years from where he is thrown, could be easily defeated. If Superman was able to win this fight, I don't think that he would be in any shape to do anything for a very long time.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
I take the opinion that since as of now. There is a puzzle piece in that missing spot. But the puzzle piece is translucent. It isn't a full piece.. Bars

Originally posted by h1a8
Are you claiming that Sentry can't be sung out of existence? .

Pretty much. Look what happened with the Molecule Man and Morgan Le Fay.