Old Vader vs New Vader

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Darth Abonis
In the old EU Vader would often show feelings of regret on turning to the dark side, discomfort with his suit, a diminishing of his Force Powers, and signs that their was some good left in him. The New EU Vader has no problems with the suit (Lords of the Sith describes Vader and the suit as one interconnected unit) and Vaders power to the Force has been described by the former source as strengthening and finally Filoni himself says that the good buried deep inside Vader didn't start to stir until he learned he had a child. Two different Vaders. Which one do you prefer?

Zenwolf
Eh Old Vader only had problems with his suit early on, he grew accustomed to it over time so it wasn't much a problem.

So suit wise, they seem even with New adapting to it more quicker.

That aside though, I think I like New Vader a tad more. Before he always seemed kinda...paling in comparison to other Sith which I always felt to be kinda...bizarre given who Vader is.

His TK at the very least should be at the top given that it's all he can really do, or what he seemed to focus on. Which is shaping up nicely in this new canon, so I'm liking that.

carthage
Legends Vader is more skilled and only slightly less powerful than his canon counterpart, and the new Vader doesn't seem to have the same issues with his suit that Vader had in RODV/early incarnations. I don't really have a preference to either Vader, he's still my favorite Star Wars character regardless of if he's Legends or Canon

FreshestSlice
> better than Sidious
> less skilled

Ooookay.

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by Zenwolf
That aside though, I think I like New Vader a tad more. Before he always seemed kinda...paling in comparison to other Sith which I always felt to be kinda...bizarre given who Vader is.


KEK. They are only a legit 4 Sith Lords, I would put over Vader without debating it in the Legends canon. He was hardly paling in comparison to anyone not named Vitiate, or Darth Sidious.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
KEK. They are only a legit 4 Sith Lords, I would put over Vader without debating it in the Legends canon. He was hardly paling in comparison to anyone not named Vitiate, or Darth Sidious.

Eh maybe I've seen people just say too many others to really feel he would be placed highly. Mind just probably blurred them all together.

Deronn_solo
Well, guys like Kun, Krayt and Nihilus are debatably > Vader, but it's not clear cut. They're several ancients people out over the Dark Lord (such as Murr, Ragnos, Hord) and RoT Sith Lords (Tenebrous), but I don't think any of those guys actually surpass Vader, personally.

Darth Abonis
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Eh Old Vader only had problems with his suit early on, he grew accustomed to it over time so it wasn't much a problem.

So suit wise, they seem even with New adapting to it more quicker.

That aside though, I think I like New Vader a tad more. Before he always seemed kinda...paling in comparison to other Sith which I always felt to be kinda...bizarre given who Vader is.

His TK at the very least should be at the top given that it's all he can really do, or what he seemed to focus on. Which is shaping up nicely in this new canon, so I'm liking that.

He never got over his suits limitations. As late as Shadows of the Empire, he was trying to use the Force to heal his lungs and become independent of it.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Darth Abonis
He never got over his suits limitations. As late as Shadows of the Empire, he was trying to use the Force to heal his lungs and become independent of it.
The fact that he doesn't want to be in a suit does not prove that he can't deal with it. I can deal with sitting in a 2x4 room for the rest of my life. Doesn't mean I want to.

carthage
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
> better than Sidious
> less skilled

Ooookay.

mmm

Sinious
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Well, guys like Kun, Krayt and Nihilus are debatably > Vader, but it's not clear cut. They're several ancients people out over the Dark Lord (such as Murr, Ragnos, Hord) and RoT Sith Lords (Tenebrous), but I don't think any of those guys actually surpass Vader, personally. Did you not mention Plagueis intentionally? Caue he is above Vader as well. Also Caedus.

DarthAnt66
Caedus = Krayt = Revan = Plagueis >= Vader = Marek = Skywaker

Deronn_solo
Yeah, Sidious, Vitiate, Caedus and Plagueis are the 4 Sith Lords that's undoubtedly above Vader, tbh.

Sinious
Ah got it. thumb up Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Caedus = Krayt = Revan = Plagueis >= Vader = Marek = Skywaker Doubt it.

DarthAnt66
I was being generous to Plagueis, tbh.

Sinious
You were being generous to Revan and even more so to Krayt imo.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Sinious
Doubt it.

Sinious
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://www.24tee.com/image/cache/data/2012/badass/weve-got-a-badass-over-here-tee-shirt-a60-650x650.jpg

Deronn_solo
LAWL.
Anakin isn't equal to Vader or Galen, and Krayt isn't above Vader, either.

Edit: For that matter, Revan isn't equal for Plaguies, neither.

SunRazer
Krayt can at least be argued to be above Vader. That's pretty much undeniable.

|King Joker|
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
> better than Sidious http://40.media.tumblr.com/0a91afe41c44c44d53f9e875aeb6bb6f/tumblr_inline_nne74s1jm81t1ns0z_540.png

FreshestSlice
Don't act like you don't love the idea of Ahsoks being able to win a few rounds against Sidious.

|King Joker|
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Don't act like you don't love the idea of Ahsoks being able to win a few rounds against Sidious. Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen, Freshest.

Deronn_solo
Originally posted by SunRazer
Krayt can at least be argued to be above Vader. That's pretty much undeniable.

KEK, I don't think I said otherwise.

SunRazer
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
KEK, I don't think I said otherwise.

You implied that pretty clearly, since you were laughing at the notion. If you can argue it, it's not really laughable.

Deronn_solo
"Guys like Kun, Krayt, and Nihilia are debatably > Vader"
---DCcomicsrule2011/Deronn_Solo/ Da Divine King

do u even read, bro?

SunRazer
Didn't see that, I skimmed to the bottom. Why would you laugh at it if it's debatable, though?

Deronn_solo
Because it was posted by Ant. thumb up

The Merchant
New Vader sounds like he's into BDSM.

SunRazer
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Because it was posted by Ant. thumb up

Mmmm. It's a priority to laugh at Ant's posts, true.

Stigma
Caedus = Plagueis > Krayt >= Vader * >= Marek > Revan

Not sure how to treat the info Vader > Sids in sabers.

Sinious
Originally posted by Stigma
Not sure how to treat the info Vader > Sids in sabers. Laugh at it like we laugh at all your biased posts?

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Sinious
Laugh at it like we laugh at all your biased posts?

The hostility is intense. Chillax, bro.

carthage
Says the crybaby that apologized to Neph for "trolling" thumb up

Stigma
Originally posted by Sinious
Laugh at it like we laugh at all your biased posts?
Your saltiness is an unwelcome developement. erm

Abandon it or you will be cleansed with my wrath, as will be your kind. uhuh

Sinious
Originally posted by The_Tempest
The hostility is intense. Chillax, bro. I like intensity, bro. Originally posted by Stigma
Your saltiness is an unwelcome developement. erm

Abandon it or you will be cleansed with my wrath, as will be your kind. uhuh Tbh, I feel like PTing again so I'm not gonna stand in your way. thumb up

carthage
**** Tempest and his PT bias.

Sinious
Chillax, bro.

carthage
I'll Chillax when he catches AIDS thumb up

Sinious
You remind me of this guy.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by Stigma
Caedus = Plagueis > Krayt >= Vader * >= Marek > Revan

Not sure how to treat the info Vader > Sids in sabers.

This whole thing is ok except for Revan's and arguably Krayt's placement.

Stigma
I agree when it comes to Krayt. Hard to place him.

Revan is also iffy for me. He is less impressive than either Marek or Vader, for certain though.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by Stigma
I agree when it comes to Krayt. Hard to place him.

If you're looking at peak value, he's arguably the top dude there, or at least on the same level as Caedus/Plagueis.

Originally posted by Stigma
Revan is also iffy for me. He is less impressive than either Marek or Vader, for certain though.

lmfao.

carthage
Krayt/Caedus could go either way according to Troy Denning.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Even without the implication, peak value Apocalypse Krayt is arguably one of the top 3-5 sith in history.

carthage
So yeah

Vader > Sidious in lightsabers

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Malgus > Vader in all out smilesmilesmilesmilesmilesmilesmile

quanchi112
Originally posted by carthage
So yeah

Vader > Sidious in lightsabers Nah. Maybe at the point in rotj but not against rots Sheev.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Quan, you'd be a much more devastating force via learning the EU. The versus forum would be shattered smilesmilesmilesmilesmilesmile

quanchi112
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Quan, you'd be a much more devastating force via learning the EU. The versus forum would be shattered smilesmilesmilesmilesmilesmile It holds little interest since it isn't canon. I also lost faith in the Star Wars fans here when no one accepted my Khan challenge. Nai really backed down as well. It was all very disheartening.

Trocity
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Even without the implication, peak value Apocalypse Krayt is arguably one of the top 3-5 sith in history.

thumb up

Palpatine/Vitiate/Caedus/Plagueis/Krayt definitively the 5 best Sith in the mythos imo.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
@Quan, the EU holds value here, though, and to the people of here, ergo you'd have reason to conquest.

Originally posted by Trocity
thumb up

Palpatine/Vitiate/Caedus/Plagueis/Krayt definitively the 5 best Sith in the mythos imo.

Exar Kun is definitely banging on the door, imho.

The Merchant
I would replace Krayt with Kun personally, but Krayt is top 10.

Trocity
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Exar Kun is definitely banging on the door, imho.

Agreed.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Peak value Apocalypse Krayt is pretty tough to argue against, tbh. Even Legacy! Krayt is a complete and utter monster. Hell, Reborn Krayt is supposed to be > Apocalypse Krayt even.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by Trocity
Agreed.

What order would you rank the top 5 or 10 sith in?

quanchi112
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
@Quan, the EU holds value here, though, and to the people of here, ergo you'd have reason to conquest.



Exar Kun is definitely banging on the door, imho. I would become king of the Star Wars fans.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
My case in point. You're Galactus, and this is a planet housing endless energies. thumb up

quanchi112
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
My case in point. You're Galactus, and this is a planet housing endless energies. thumb up I would demand worship. Anything less would be dealt with most harshly.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
thumb up thumb up thumb up

And you'd get it, provided you reach the necessary levels of dominance. smilesmilesmile

quanchi112
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
thumb up thumb up thumb up

And you'd get it, provided you reach the necessary levels of dominance. smilesmilesmile I would have public executions of those who sought to undermine my rule.

All HAIL QUAN!!!

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
EmperorSidious2 and DARTH POWER Thor will be forced to bend the knee at their lack of faith. JUST DO IT

Trocity
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
What order would you rank the top 5 or 10 sith in?

1. Sidious
2. Vitiate
3. Caedus
4. Plagueis
5. Krayt
6. Exar Kun

Then I'm less sure, but like: Vader, Emperor Malgus, Orbalisk Bane, Dooku and probably some ancient Sith like Karness Muur and whatnot.

I leave Nihilus off my lists because he's a weirdo.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by Trocity
1. Sidious
2. Vitiate
3. Caedus
4. Plagueis
5. Krayt
6. Exar Kun

Then I'm less sure, but like: Vader, Emperor Malgus, Orbalisk Bane, Dooku and probably some ancient Sith like Karness Muur and whatnot.

I leave Nihilus off my lists because he's a weirdo.

:mmm:

I question whether or not Krayt is below Caedus and Plagueis, tbh. I tend to flip-flop between the 3.

Also, I'd wager reallistically some of the ancients, (like Muur, Hord, Sadow, Ragnos, etc) were better than the likes of Dooku. That's just me personally, though.

quanchi112
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
EmperorSidious2 and DARTH POWER Thor will be forced to bend the knee at their lack of faith. JUST DO IT I would make ESidious swear fealty to me as I killed Darth Power with the purple light saber he has went beyond sanity to disrespect. My rule will last forever !

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Many of the denizens of KMC don't pay windu his cash, indeed.

Trocity
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
:mmm:

I question whether or not Krayt is below Caedus and Plagueis, tbh. I tend to flip-flop between the 3.

Also, I'd wager reallistically some of the ancients, (like Muur, Hord, Sadow, Ragnos, etc) were better than the likes of Dooku. That's just me personally, though.

I agree with all of that pretty much; yeah, those 3 are relatively even. I honestly think it's pretty bullshit when people say Krayt's showing in Apocalypse is "inconsistent", the dude's a beast even when riddled with parasites and practically on his death bed.

You're probably right regarding the ancient sith too, I wish they had more exposure. Ragnos, Hord and Muur I'd wager are better yeah, I'd put Dooku above Sadow though.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by Trocity
I agree with all of that pretty much; yeah, those 3 are relatively even. I honestly think it's pretty bullshit when people say Krayt's showing in Apocalypse is "inconsistent", the dude's a beast even when riddled with parasites and practically on his death bed.

You're probably right regarding the ancient sith too, I wish they had more exposure. Ragnos, Hord and Muur I'd wager are better yeah, I'd put Dooku above Sadow though.

Yeah. Consider that even Darth Wredd has a pretty massive showing of TK, (bringing down an absolutely enormous satellite dish,) and he'd get stomped by Darth Nihl, who in turn was effortlessly choked out by Krayt. Couple that with his myriad of saber feats, (even as Asharad Hett,) lightning feats, Dark Transfer, and his implied superiority over Apocalypse! Krayt, and you have a top 3-5 sith.

Ehhh....Have you seen the Massassi vs. Sadow excerpt, tbh?

carthage
Originally posted by Trocity

Then I'm less sure, but like:Orbalisk Bane,
I

lol

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Carthage we understand and respect your opinions that orbalisk bane is shit but we dont share them ok? Jeez man you're really stressing me out I might an hero

The Merchant
Is Vader top 10 Sith material? I dunno, I feel like he's in top 20 but top 10 I just dunno anymore.

SunRazer
Yeah, he is.

Trocity
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yeah. Consider that even Darth Wredd has a pretty massive showing of TK, (bringing down an absolutely enormous satellite dish,) and he'd get stomped by Darth Nihl, who in turn was effortlessly choked out by Krayt. Couple that with his myriad of saber feats, (even as Asharad Hett,) lightning feats, Dark Transfer, and his implied superiority over Apocalypse! Krayt, and you have a top 3-5 sith.

thumb up

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Ehhh....Have you seen the Massassi vs. Sadow excerpt, tbh?

I actually don't think I have, do you have a link?

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by The Merchant
Is Vader top 10 Sith material? I dunno, I feel like he's in top 20 but top 10 I just dunno anymore.

I understand your concerns, I've been contemplating the same thing.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by Trocity
I actually don't think I have, do you have a link?

The first Massassi warriors to arrive on the fourth moon of Yavin were intelligent beings. However, their utter devotion to Dark Lord of the Sith Naga Sadow rendered moot their capacity for independent thought. To Sadow, the Massassi were born and bred to build temples in his honor and to defend him until death; nothing more. Perhaps it was for this reason that Sadow's experiments in Sith alchemy mutated his followers into rudimentary brutes. Not all Massassi on Yavin 4 were subjected to Sadow's alchemical manipulations, however. A tribe of clerics who preferred independence over mindless labor turned their backs on their master, quietly venturing out to make a home of their own. These Massassi were pioneers, masters of their own destinies. But if Sadow were to discover their betrayal, there would come a reckoning....

As a small tribe of cultured warriors, the intelligent Massassi thrived in the harsh jungles of Yavin 4. For a time they were content with their lives, but contentment led to restlessness. They longed for more. The uncontested rule and grand temples of Naga Sadow called to their warrior's vanity. A plan emerged and the tribe marched on Sadow's territory. But Sadow, having learned of their independent existence, had anticipated their aggression. His mutated brutes ambushed the would-be usurpers. The sheer magnitude of their blunt-force attack was enough to take down an army. Relying on their wit to improvise and strategize, the smarter Massassi not only protected themselves from the onslaught, but advanced on their goal. For days, the tribe stormed the temples their devolved cousins built. But where was the Dark Lord they had built them for? They had expected Naga Sadow would face them; they'd even accepted the likelihood most or all would fall to their former master. Instead, wave after wave of mutated brutes attacked and succumbed until there were none left to fight and the tribe stood triumphant inside the greatest of Sadow's temples. It was then, at long last, that Naga Sadow appeared....

"You have succeeded," Sadow declared. "You have defied the odds, killed many times more your own, taken all you so desperately coveted. You have fought and bled and sacrificed to arrive at this moment. All that remains is for you to strike me down. But once you have, what would you do then, without your brothers to murder? With nothing left to conquer on this orb?" The Massassi slackened, unable to offer a response. There was none to give. "I commend you on the mass slaughter of your own kind," Sadow intoned as hundreds of Massassi brutes flooded into the temple chamber."You have seen the pinnacle of your days, the extent of your unchecked avarice. Think of it as the first of two gifts. The other I bestow on you now, though you were meant to have received it along with your fellow Massassi." Over time, the Massassi on Yavin 4 grew in number as they rebuilt that which they destroyed. They would never war amongst themselves again.

Source: The Old Republic: Codex Entry: The Massassi War

Trocity
So Sadow in all likelihood would have solo'd an army of hundreds of Massassi. That is impressive indeed.

That makes me respect Ludo Kressh a lot more, also.

carthage
When did that story come out?

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by Trocity
So Sadow in all likelihood would have solo'd an army of hundreds of Massassi. That is indeed impressive.

That makes me respect Ludo Kressh a lot more, also.

It's the main reason I have him above Dooku, tbh, as well as general hype, (the Sith Marauders over a thousand years later emulate his lightsaber style, after all.)

Ludo is pretty awesome too, based on that he's relatively close to Sadow.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by carthage
When did that story come out?

When SOR came out.

SunRazer
Originally posted by Trocity
So Sadow in all likelihood would have solo'd an army of hundreds of Massassi. That is impressive indeed.

That makes me respect Ludo Kressh a lot more, also.

More than that, that legion that Sadow would've likely defeated was composed of intelligent Massassi which were beating waves after waves of Sadow's alchemically enhanced Massassi brutes, which the same codex describes as being able to "take down an army".

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
And it only took a few massassi brutes to rend Exar Kun's flesh smilesmilesmile

Trocity
Sadow truly is a beast, thank you for posting that.

I knew he was good, but not that good.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yeah. This is generally why I take implications more seriously than most, tbh. They usually end up being more than just that, especially in a fictional universe. Like, I still place Sadow about on par with Ragnos, despite the latter not even having feats comparable to that.

SunRazer
The latter has superior feats in other areas, though.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
How so?

SunRazer
He's stronger (obviously), and none of Sadow's artifacts are quite as powerful as Ragnos' Scepter, it seems. Pity that the Scepter could be destroyed by a mere lightsaber slash, though, seeing as other artifacts like the Muur Talisman and the Kressh Gauntlet couldn't, and their creators weren't really more powerful than Ragnos (well, Muur, perhaps, but they're still in the same power class).

There''s also the fact that Sadow's emergence as a spirit never quite caused the turbulence in the Force that Ragnos' did. Then again, Sadow's tomb was a more potent nexus than Ragnos'. Ragnos also literally withered Tavion after possessing her because her body couldn't withstand his corruption, whereas the likes of Eison Gynt never quite suffered such effects when Sadow possessed him.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yeah, generally speaking they're implied equals. Ragnos physically beating his terentatek nightly is lolkek tier, though.

Being, "Vitiate's Master," has to mean something tho, right?

SunRazer
Well, Ragnos was above Sadow at the time of his death, but Sadow grew more powerful upon becoming the Dark Lord, so yeah, I put them around equal too. Not many others share that sentiment, though.

carthage
I don't think Sadow has any physical feats compared to Ragno's beating off his terantek

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
His terentatek wanks black

SunRazer
He matched Kressh in strength before growing more powerful, which puts him within range of Vader-level strength at least.

Trocity
Originally posted by carthage
Ragno's beating off his terantek

I hear it rarely lasted more than a couple seconds.

carthage
Didn't Kressh break a sword? Holy **** that's so comparable to Vader lifting 12 stormtroopers, shattering massive pillars, and hurling Durasteel doors.

LOOK OUT VADER, KRESSH IS COMING FOR YOU!

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Naga Sadow would take Vader down

carthage
**** yeah man, look at the musculature on this guy:

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/c/c0/Naga_Sadow_NEGTC.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110127015432

Vader trips on his own arms, he's out of his league with someone who can stalemate Ludo Kressh and can beat off Teranteks

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Look Vader wanker I know you think Sadow is just a magician with a hat but one brute massassi would rip Vader's tin arms off

carthage
Those Massassi that can break trees and hurl rocks and knock out Exar Kun. Its too much, Sunrazer was right about the power of the Ancient Sith?!!!?!!

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
thumb up

Have you seen how swole the massassi in SWTOR are?

carthage
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/SWTOR_SoR_Massassi1.jpg

**** yeah look at this guy, he's a posterboy for fabulous LGBT Massassi rights. Good for him and he could probably tear Vader in half, and Shootingnova would make a respect thread for him with 4 outdated sourcebook quotes and say hes on par with Sidious

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Holy shit it has wolverine claws

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