Why didn't God kill the Devil?

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Surtur
This is a serious question..I'm an atheist, but lets pretend God does exist for a minute. God is supposed to be good and Satan is supposed to be evil. In the bible God kills evil humans en masse on multiple occasions. So why not Satan?

Mindset
He didn't want to.

Star428
Because he doesn't like you, OP. That's why. He specifically let the devil live just to make people like you ask stupid questions like that and keep doubting His existence. thumb up

Surtur
So just to be clear you feel it is a stupid question to ask why a supposedly good deity didn't kill the ultimate evil. I just wanted to actually type that out because maybe if you see someone else say it you will see how bizarre it is.

Q99
Ah, I'm going to mention that the Bible really doesn't paint there being a single 'ultimate evil.'

The modern conception of the devil is a mashing together of multiple figures. There's Satan, who's talking with god friendly-like in Job. Then in Revelation, there's a giant dragon, who's not the figure from Job. Then in Eden, there's a snake who's not either of them and gets cursed for good.

Really, it's a variety of figures who got lumped together. The snake? Never caused trouble again, so was successfully dealt with, and yadda yadda.

Surtur
Okay maybe there isn't a single ultimate evil, but at least one version is presented as evil.

Bentley
Originally posted by Surtur
Okay maybe there isn't a single ultimate evil, but at least one version is presented as evil.

You could say the devil is a title more than a person. According to the christian mythology there are a number of spiritual creatures, false deities and witches that manifest themselves over creation. Some of them are set against God and their chief could be likened to the devil. They are not supposedly organized through history, but at the End of Time they will form a coalition to oppose God frontally.

Assumedly God doesn't destroy these entities for the same reason he doesn't wipe out every evil man. As part of God's creation these supernatural entities can be redeemed (I mean those that don't oppose God but share a supernatural origin with those that do).

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Surtur
This is a serious question..I'm an atheist, but lets pretend God does exist for a minute. God is supposed to be good and Satan is supposed to be evil. In the bible God kills evil humans en masse on multiple occasions. So why not Satan?

My opinion is that Satan, at the time, Lucifer, was given so much power by God he could not be killed.

Hence the war in heaven, and trying to throw him out.

The bible even speaks of them being thrown in a lake of fire for all eternity, noting about being killed.

Genesis-Soldier
the devil was an angel so there might be that


or maybe god is good, devil is bad and both need to exsist so balance is obtained

Bentley
Originally posted by Genesis-Soldier
the devil was an angel so there might be that


or maybe god is good, devil is bad and both need to exsist so balance is obtained

Pretty sure the latter explanation is not canon for Christianity.

long pig
Freedom of choice. He uses evil to see who will choose him over evil.

Its very simple. This question is something a five year old would ask.

Star428
There are several theories on why God didn't just kill Satan. You can just do a google search and you'll see that. The following articles are pretty interesting regarding that question:


http://www.miqteens.com/article-blog/id/51/why-didn't-god-just-destroy-satan-and-his-angels

http://www.gotquestions.org/God-vs-Satan.html



God already has a plan set aside for Satan's punishment which is described in great detail in Revelation 20. Which is in article below if you don't have a Bible handy. Make sure you read the King James Version of the Bible. All the other interpretations can't be trusted:



http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-Chapter-20/



In a nutshell, when Christ returns Satan (and all of his demonic brethren, I assume) will be locked-up in the bottomless pit for a thousand years while Christ and His elect rule a renewed Earth. AT the end of the 1,000 year reign he will be let loose on humanity for a short time after which he will finally be thrown into the lake of fire with the antichrist (the beast of Revelation) and the false prophet where he will burn forever (he's immortal, afterall).


I'm still kinda thinking that the current pope is either the antichrist or the false prophet described in Revelation because he was calling for a world-government (ruled by a human or humans, not Christ) and he continually deceives over a billion people.

Bashar Teg
perhaps god just keeps him around for the faithful to blame for their own misdeeds and avoid personal responsibility.

Surtur
Originally posted by Bentley
You could say the devil is a title more than a person. According to the christian mythology there are a number of spiritual creatures, false deities and witches that manifest themselves over creation. Some of them are set against God and their chief could be likened to the devil. They are not supposedly organized through history, but at the End of Time they will form a coalition to oppose God frontally.

Assumedly God doesn't destroy these entities for the same reason he doesn't wipe out every evil man. As part of God's creation these supernatural entities can be redeemed (I mean those that don't oppose God but share a supernatural origin with those that do).

The problem is God has in the past wiped out every evil man. Story of Noah, for one. Story of Sodom and Gamorrah has an entire city of supposedly evil people wiped out, but with Noah they were one dude short of total genocide.

Why could Satan be redeemed, but those people could not?

Originally posted by long pig
Freedom of choice. He uses evil to see who will choose him over evil.

Its very simple. This question is something a five year old would ask.

If it's so simple a 5 yr. old would ask then how come you failed to grasp it or the answer?

God has killed evil people before, en masse even. Explain to me why you now pull the bs "choice of freedom" card. Since surely you know the stories I mentioned they are famous, so how do you then reconcile your "well, it's freedom" thing when before it wasn't a freedom thing.

Adam Grimes
Because that would ruin poker night.

Surtur
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
My opinion is that Satan, at the time, Lucifer, was given so much power by God he could not be killed.

Hence the war in heaven, and trying to throw him out.

The bible even speaks of them being thrown in a lake of fire for all eternity, noting about being killed.

But then you realize God is now not anywhere near omnipotent if your theory is true, right? He's powerful, but not all powerful.

Time-Immemorial
Originally posted by Surtur
But then you realize God is now not anywhere near omnipotent if your theory is true, right? He's powerful, but not all powerful.

Its is my belief that when God creates an immortal he endows it with his holy spirit to sustain it, so if he had to destroy it, it would be destroying a part of himself. However he is powerful enough to subdue him and in prison him.

People underestimate how powerful Lucifer was. He was Gods second most powerful creation besides Metatron.

Star428
Actually, archangel Michael is more poweful than Satan/Lucifer, imo. I'm pretty sure he's the one who defeated Lucifer in one-on-one combat when the rebellious angels rebelled. I've never heard of the other angel you speak ok. I didn't read about him anywhere in the bible.

Bashar Teg
this is becoming another vs thread, isnt it?

Surtur
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Its is my belief that when God creates an immortal he endows it with his holy spirit to sustain it, so if he had to destroy it, it would be destroying a part of himself. However he is powerful enough to subdue him and in prison him.

People underestimate how powerful Lucifer was. He was Gods second most powerful creation besides Metatron.

I get what you are saying, but you realize that still technically boils down to "Guy is not omnipotent". Since if he was he'd be able to do anything, including creating other beings without having to destroy a part of himself to get rid of them.

Adam Grimes
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
this is becoming another vs thread, isnt it? Of course it is.

Bashar Teg
ok then...

Lucifer vs Metatron.

h2h, bloodlust on, arena battle. who wins?

Bardock42
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
ok then...

Lucifer vs Metatron.

h2h, bloodlust on, arena battle. who wins?

lol, leaving out God himself, Lucifer is second only to Michael. Spite thread.

Adam Grimes
Not if Batman trains Metatron.

Star428
LOL. Now all the ridiculous Bat-hype crap is making its way into the religion forum. LOL.

long pig
Originally posted by Star428
LOL. Now all the ridiculous Bat-hype crap is making its way into the religion forum. LOL.
Woah....

Woah.......woah....

The Batman doesn't need hype.

red g jacks
would've made the bible pretty boring tbh

Genesis-Soldier
maybe god cannot kill the devil because he himself IS the devil


who knows, maybe we should ask him

Stoic
God did kill Satan though. If we look at the events written in the bible and place them on a time line, God kills Satan, just not in our time. God is claimed to be the Alpha and the Omega (The Beginning and The End). What we perceive to be happening at this moment has already happened in the future.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Surtur
This is a serious question..I'm an atheist, but lets pretend God does exist for a minute. God is supposed to be good and Satan is supposed to be evil. In the bible God kills evil humans en masse on multiple occasions. So why not Satan?

If god killed satan, then evil would be destroyed. There would be no divine purpose. No evil, no hell,"above us only sky". And that is why I think god did not kill satan.

Genesis-Soldier
but there WOULD be limbo, sure hell wouldnt have purpose anymore but what about those inbetween heaven and hell

Bentley
Originally posted by Surtur
The problem is God has in the past wiped out every evil man. Story of Noah, for one. Story of Sodom and Gamorrah has an entire city of supposedly evil people wiped out, but with Noah they were one dude short of total genocide.

Why could Satan be redeemed, but those people could not?

Again, some "Satans" have surely been destroyed already. That some of them remains is simply a matter of God not being on a mission to wipe out evil, at least not right now.

And technically the people who died in the Flood had the chance to redeem themselves but refused God.

Star428
Again, there is only one true Satan.

Bentley
Originally posted by Star428
Again, there is only one true Satan.

The word has changed of meanings a number of times since the term was originally coined. Also it's something we cannot probably prove, so I don't see the point in arguing with people about it.

Star428
Originally posted by Bentley
The word has changed of meanings a number of times since the term was originally coined. Also it's something we cannot probably prove, so I don't see the point in arguing with people about it.



Uh, yeah. We can prove it. It's called God's Word (the Bible). IT's crystal clear to any believer that there is only one Satan, Bentley. Anyone who thinks there is more than one has been deceived in the same way people are deceived into believing evolution is fact when it's clearly not. There are many demons whom all mimic Satan but, in reality, there is only one true Satan.

Bentley
Originally posted by Star428
Uh, yeah. We can prove it. It's called God's Word (the Bible). IT's crystal clear to any believer that there is only one Satan, Bentley. Anyone who thinks there is more than one has been deceived in the same way people are deceived into believing evolution is fact when it's clearly not. There are many demons whom all mimic Satan but, in reality, there is only one true Satan.

Deception is not all about lies, it's also about bending the truth to fascinate people into looking at the wrong things.

I have no reason to mistrust your assessment though.

Genesis-Soldier
here is 3 words for you

council of Nicea

where the bible was censored and put together by MAN
not to mention that the stories of the bible had begun to be collected 40 years AFTER the death of jesus christ
nor to bring up the fact that there are whole gospels held in the Vatican Vaults


but no, let us not pay attention to a religious entity that took advantage over mutlitutes of men and women who couldn't read, tell them to fight in "holy" lands to enter heaven and for a second lets think that it is word by word the miracle and truth of the lord



also if you can get the underlying sarcastic bits that would be nice

long pig
Originally posted by Bentley
The word has changed of meanings a number of times since the term was originally coined. Also it's something we cannot probably prove, so I don't see the point in arguing with people about it.
No, there is a THE Satan .

He's mentioned as the king of tyre. In the same passage, mentioned that he was in the garden, was fallen, was perfect, the top cherub who protected gods throne.

Etc.

Bentley
Originally posted by long pig
No, there is a THE Satan .

He's mentioned as the king of tyre. In the same passage, mentioned that he was in the garden, was fallen, was perfect, the top cherub who protected gods throne.

Etc.

We can delve into the historicity of the term if you want to. What is the source you're citing here?

One Big Mob
Because he still loved him. Lucifer was pretty much the perfect being besides God and God couldn't bring himself to actually end him.

Astner
Because according to the Bible I will kill the devil. And before anyone asks, yes my name is Mikael and yes I am the archangel: the perfect creation, and no I'm not crazy.

Star428
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Because he still loved him. Lucifer was pretty much the perfect being besides God and God couldn't bring himself to actually end him.




Actually, archangel Michael is just as perfect (except perhaps in beauty). Moreso actually, since he doesn't have betrayal in his blood as Lucifer did. The name Michael even means "He who is like God". One of the articles I linked to on the first page gives one of the best theories, imo, as to why He didn't kill Him. Or perhaps He didn't because he wanted man to wrestle with temptation from the devil to test him and prove his love for God. Or maybe, since he created him immortal, He just didn't want to kill a being He originally intended to let live forever because it didn't sit well with Him.

long pig
Originally posted by Bentley
We can delve into the historicity of the term if you want to. What is the source you're citing here?
Ezekiel 28 IIRC.

Nusa105
Because God never do violence like humans. That's just my opinion big grin

Nusa105
By the way, i'm protestant smile

Q99
Originally posted by Surtur
This is a serious question..I'm an atheist, but lets pretend God does exist for a minute. God is supposed to be good and Satan is supposed to be evil. In the bible God kills evil humans en masse on multiple occasions. So why not Satan?


Really, 'the devil' is a combined image of *several* biblical figures, not all opposed to god.


But a lot of it comes down to the idea that the Bible was written under a mindset of 'God is the most powerful,' but not the modern 'God can poof and do anything,' conception.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by Nusa105
Because God never do violence like humans. That's just my opinion big grin God disagrees.

Mindset
He wants us to live lives of suffering and anguish.

AsbestosFlaygon
If you read the the Bible, at their final battle in Revelations, he (God) planned it all along. They (God and Satan) would turn into their true forms (Satan as a dragon that looks like Hydra, and Jesus in his giant glowing Buddha form with flaming eyes and double-edged sword tongue) with Jesus ultimately slaying Satan via sword tongue.

In other words, God did it for the lulz. He spared him so he could defeat Satan someday, so that he could prove that even though Satan may have tempted us humans towards sin for thousands of years, he was the superior combatant all along. Satan only shares a portion of God's power, after all. Satan's total offensive output is equivalent to half of God's powers. He only has evil powers; he lacks God's other good powers.

Surtur
That is what it really comes down to. This is all a game to God.

NemeBro
Assuming God exists, either because he is not capable (so he isn't omnipotent) or not willing (so he isn't perfect in morality).

Many in the western world like to think evil exists, yet that God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, and the sole creator of reality. This can't really be the case. If God exists, he can be omnipotent or perfect in morality. He can't be both.

Surtur
If we are assuming the biblical God exists then he is surely capable of it. He just plain doesn't want to do anything. Sometimes this thing acts good, sometimes it acts bad. At best he's like Mxy from the Superman comics, but only after having done a whole lot of bath salt.

Tattoos N Scars
Originally posted by NemeBro
Assuming God exists, either because he is not capable (so he isn't omnipotent) or not willing (so he isn't perfect in morality).

Many in the western world like to think evil exists, yet that God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, and the sole creator of reality. This can't really be the case. If God exists, he can be omnipotent or perfect in morality. He can't be both.

There is an appointed Day of Judgment for fallen angels and mankind. It is similar to how we do not execute death elrow inmates immediately after sentencing.

Surtur
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
There is an appointed Day of Judgment for fallen angels and mankind. It is similar to how we do not execute death elrow inmates immediately after sentencing.

It figures even the heavenly forces can't execute people quickly. As it is in heaven it is on Earth.

Tattoos N Scars
Originally posted by Surtur
It figures even the heavenly forces can't execute a motherf*cker quickly. As it is in heaven it is on Earth.

Technically, to God, Satan has already been sent to the Lake of Fire. There is no such thing as time in Eternity. All events past, present, and future are occuring simultaneously to God.

Surtur
That is the ultimate omnipotency copout.

Star428
As I said before, Satan will burn forever in the lake of fire. God nor Archangel Michael or any other angel will actually slay him. All the fallen angels are practically immortal just as the loyal angels are. Burning forever is a much more fitting punishment anyway for one such as he. Slaying him would be letting him get off easy. Not sure what the fate of the other fallen angels will be but I assume they will burn forever too for following him.

Surtur
I see, slaying him would be letting him off easy. So let him commit whatever potential atrocities he wants because hey one day in the future, a future that might be thousands or even millions of years away, he will burn in a lake of fire.

Yep that is about as much logic as I'd expect.

carthage
God blames Free will even though in his infinite knowledge he can see every potential action, every thought, and predict every consequence while in our fallible mortal intellect we are subject to the causal nature of supposed "Original sin" and a Fallen being whom we've never met that seduced a pair of human beings thousands of years ago, by a tree God planted, and left sitting there and damned the rest of human beings without consent or without justification to being eternally ****ed when we did nothing wrong and came into this world having done nothing.

Sounds about right with the ****ed up Christian worldview.

Tattoos N Scars
Well, he is chained in the bottomless pit during Christ's 1000 year rule on Earth. Afterwards, Satan is released for a short time for one final insurgency, then he is judged and cast into the lake of fire.

Tattoos N Scars
Originally posted by carthage
God blames Free will even though in his infinite knowledge he can see every potential action, every thought, and predict every consequence while in our fallible mortal intellect we are subject to the causal nature of supposed "Original sin" and a Fallen being whom we've never met that seduced a pair of human beings thousands of years ago, by a tree God planted, and left sitting there and damned the rest of human beings without consent or without justification to being eternally ****ed when we did nothing wrong and came into this world having done nothing.

Sounds about right with the ****ed up Christian worldview.


Life's a garden..dig it!!!
Ya gotta keep on keepin on.

Star428
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Well, he is chained in the bottomless pit during Christ's 1000 year rule on Earth. Afterwards, Satan is released for a short time for one final insurgency, then he is judged and cast into the lake of fire.


Precisely. I posted that earlier. In this thread, iirc.

Tattoos N Scars
Originally posted by Star428
Precisely. I posted that earlier. In this thread, iirc.

That's cool..I didn't read every page

NemeBro
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
There is an appointed Day of Judgment for fallen angels and mankind. It is similar to how we do not execute death elrow inmates immediately after sentencing. And? That the wicked will be punished shows that God is vengeful, not that he is moral. That God allows GOOD people to suffer when he could easily stop it without any cost to himself shows that he is morally negligent.

AsbestosFlaygon
I don't think God is necessarily evil for making innocent humans suffer for the sins of Adam and Eve eating the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge (which he created, mind you.) I view him as either a mischievous and/or misguided attention-whore. Someone like Porky Minch from Mother 3.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Surtur
This is a serious question..I'm an atheist, but lets pretend God does exist for a minute. God is supposed to be good and Satan is supposed to be evil. In the bible God kills evil humans en masse on multiple occasions. So why not Satan?
Satan doesn't have to exist for one to believe in God. A lot of things can be taken symbolically.

The concept of Satan is to represent, and give cause to, the evil and temptation in this world.

So, God can't "kill the Devil" since he gave all individuals free will, which can accept "Satan" in.

In a sense, destroying "Satan" would be limiting one's free will. That's my take on it, at least.

Tzeentch
Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
There is an appointed Day of Judgment for fallen angels and mankind. It is similar to how we do not execute death elrow inmates immediately after sentencing. The only reason we don't execute convicted criminals immediately is because our justice system, which is fundamentally based on the idea that it is not omniscient, decrees that convicted criminals deserve an appeal. The idea is that even though a criminal may be convicted in a court of law, our system is not perfect and a conviction is not absolute proof that the criminal committed the crime, thus they get multiple chances to attempt to prove that they're innocent.

As God allegedly sees all that was, is and shall be, there is thus no reason to wait before passing judgment. If our courts had the ability to know with absolute certainty whether a person was innocent or guilty there wouldn't be any delays between sentencing and execution. They'd be taken out of court and executed right then and there.

Trocity
Originally posted by Star428
Actually, archangel Michael is more poweful than Satan/Lucifer, imo.

Lucifer has superior feats.



Originally posted by Star428
I'm pretty sure he's the one who defeated Lucifer in one-on-one combat

That duel was non-canon.

DarthAnt66
LMFAO. Love you man thumb up

Tzeentch
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
I don't think God is necessarily evil for making innocent humans suffer for the sins of Adam and Eve eating the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge (which he created, mind you.) I view him as either a mischievous and/or misguided attention-whore. Someone like Porky Minch from Mother 3. Evil is a relative concept. If a mouse had any awareness of morality it would likely consider us evil for attempting to kill it and its constituents with traps after they move into our homes.

God's actions have resulted in the suffering of billions of people, are performed purely for self-serving causes and with full prior knowledge of the consequences. According to human morality, you can't really get any more evil than that.

Star428
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
LMFAO. Love you man thumb up




So you roll that way, huh? Not really surprised.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Star428
So you roll that way, huh? Not really surprised.
roll eyes (sarcastic)

We're both on KMC mainly due to the Star Wars versus section.

Here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/

"non-canon" and "feats" are general terms used. He's trolling.

Take a joke for once. It's not as funny when I need to explain it.

Trocity
thumb up love

BeyonderGod
Whoever said Satan had power above God needs to not reply.

1. Jehovah didn't want to kill the devil because that would be a BAD example to the other angels. As he doesn't condone killing especially when Angels do it in heaven.

2. Satan challenged Jehovah about humanity and he accepted this but when Satan tried to take the thrown MICHAEL had to step in to handle his younger brothers.

3. Jehovah wouldn't kill his Son as he is a loving father

thumb up

NewGuy01
The better questions to be asking are: "Why did God create the Devil?", or "Why did God create sin?", or "Why did God create life to be inherently sinful?"

The obvious answer to "Why didn't God kill the Devil", is because the Devil is exactly what God wants him to be. He's omnipotent and omniscient, he theoretically can't make mistakes. God's motivations are the real mystery.

Star428
Originally posted by NewGuy01
The better questions to be asking are: "Why did God create the Devil?", or "Why did God create sin?", or "Why did God create life to be inherently sinful?"

The obvious answer to "Why didn't God kill the Devil", is because the Devil is exactly what God wants him to be. He's omnipotent and omniscient, he theoretically can't make mistakes. God's motivations are the real mystery.



*sigh*... All of those questions you've asked in your first paragraph have been answered several times over in different places in religion forum. It's Christmas though and I'm in a pretty good mood so I'll save you the time of searching throughout forum.


1. God didn't create the devil. He created a perfect angel named Lucifer. Lucifer became Satan the devil thru his own rebellious actions.


2. LOL. God didn't "create sin" either. That's ludicrous but thanks for the good laugh. Sin is transgression against God's laws. So what you're claiming He did doesn't make any sense. Sin entered the world when Adam and Eve willingly chose to disobey God. He gave them free will. Eve could've resisted the serpent's charms and Adam could've resisted Eve's but they chose to give in and defy God's command.



3. Likewise, God didn't create humans to be inherently sinful. All humans, except for Christ when He was in human form, inherited the sinful nature from Adam and Eve. If Adam and Eve had stayed obedient to God then humans wouldn't have inherited any sinful nature. That's not to say that they never would've been tempted to sin though.

NewGuy01
That's just the thing; Lucifer wasn't perfect. Rather, he was decidedly imperfect. His hubris and rebellious nature are evidence of personality flaws. A perfect creature would not sin.

If what you're saying is that God wasn't aware that Lucifer would turn on him from the start, then you're effectively saying he's not omnisicent or omnipotent. That's not an illegitimate take, but most Christians would disagree I would think.

Also, that last point doesn't refute anything I said at all. God created Adam and Eve, who were inherently sinful. erm

Star428
Watching O'Reilly right now. I'll answer when I have more time.

Star428
Originally posted by NewGuy01
That's just the thing; Lucifer wasn't perfect. Rather, he was decidedly imperfect. His hubris and rebellious nature are evidence of personality flaws. A perfect creature would not sin.

If what you're saying is that God wasn't aware that Lucifer would turn on him from the start, then you're effectively saying he's not omnisicent or omnipotent. That's not an illegitimate take, but most Christians would disagree I would think.

Also, that last point doesn't refute anything I said at all. God created Adam and Eve, who were inherently sinful. erm



1. Guess I should've explained further. He was perfect in beauty but God still gave him (like all other angels and all humans) free wil. God didn't plant something in him that made him turn bad. Lucifer made the decision willingly to rebel against Him. God's creation of him was not "flawed" in any way. Sure, God could've made a bunch of slaves if He wanted to who would've never questioned Him or done anything bad but He didn't want a bunch of mindless robots.


2. Well, what you have to understand is that, as humans, our limited minds can't begin to understand everything about a being like God or His intentions or why He does some of the things He does. We can only speculate. It may seem like a bit of a paradox to you and me that He, an all-powerful all-knowing being, made a being that He knew would turn on Him eventually but that's only because we have a very limited understanding of our Creator. Maybe one day we will understand.


3. No. When He first created them they were perfect. As perfect as humans can be. He let them have free will. They made the choice to sin. No one made them. You keep acting as if God planted a seed in them that made them sin. That's false though. They could've resisted the temptation but they chose not to. The fact that God may've already known they were going to disobey doesn't change the fact that the decision was still theirs to make. Him knowing how they were going to choose didn't force them to make the decision they did. The same thing applies to your Lucifer going bad argument.

NewGuy01
This is exactly my point; he could've made beings that wouldn't question him or do bad things, but he chose to make ones that would.

As a being of infinite knowledge and wisdom, God wouldn't do this without a reason. The next logical step is that God intended for the Devil to be what he is from the very start, which is why he didn't kill him. thumb up



Again, exactly my point. I said in my first post that the question to be asking is: Why? What were God's motivations for creating a prideful, rebellious-natured angel?

There isn't a definitive answer to the question. That, at least imo, is what makes it a good one.



A perfect being wouldn't make bad/wrong decisions. confused

NemeBro
The argument that we can't comprehend the actions of God is ultimately a cop-out. The words we use to describe God are of our own making, as are the arguments that defend God from criticism. There is no reason to assume that God, were he to subscribe to the descriptions humanity gives him, would be beyond a human being's capacity to logically judge.

If God is omnipotent and omniscient, he is entirely capable of creating a world without suffering (needless or not) that still allows human beings free will.

To assert that he could not do this is to say that God is either incapable of doing so (which is the same as saying he is not omnipotent). To assert that he was unwilling is the same as saying that he's morally imperfect.

There is no having your cake and eating it too here. Evil (if you want to call it that) and suffering could not exist is God was omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent.

Agusto Pinochet

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