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Fight in some neutral realm.

Cyttorak wins this.

Gorath.

Battle of the hyped-but-featless wonders right here

SG ftw

Cyttorak gets tentacle raped. The sad part is that he's not even a Japanese schoolgirl

Originally posted by Cogito
Battle of the hyped-but-featless wonders right here
Gorath isn't exactly featless.

Look up his second fight with Strange. The amount of power Strange needed to accumulate to even CHALLENGE Gorath was incredible.

One of those items, the Wings of Needless Sorrow allowed a POWERLESS Strange to beat back Dormammu who had fully incarnated on Earth and had all of Strange's Sorcerer Supreme powers combined with his own.

Gorath destroys.

My boy Shuma wins.

The Ancient One's peer Kaluu couldn't even make it to the realm of Shuma's lieutenant Arioch without slowly dying due to the realm's overwhelming energy and being rendered useless, and Kaluu is a guy who has hung out in Raggador's realm for over 500 years and mastered a variety of black magic from Chthon's Darkhold.

Cyttorak gets wrecked despite what that doofus Tom Brevoort believes. I'd even go so far as to say Shuma's servant Ghaszaszh Nyirh could go toe-to-toe with Cyttorak on his own.

Originally posted by Cogito
Battle of the hyped-but-featless wonders right here

Shuma-Gorath was a threat to the entire cosmos when Englehart was writing him.

Originally posted by CortSether
The Ancient One's peer Kaluu couldn't even make it to the realm of Shuma's lieutenant Arioch without slowly dying due to the realm's overwhelming energy and being rendered useless, and Kaluu is a guy who has hung out in Raggador's realm for over 500 years and mastered a variety of black magic from Chthon's Darkhold.

Cyttorak gets wrecked despite what that doofus Tom Brevoort believes. I'd even go so far as to say Shuma's servant Ghaszaszh Nyirh could go toe-to-toe with Cyttorak on his own.



Shuma-Gorath was a threat to the entire cosmos when Englehart was writing him. this. Also didn't shuma and his brethren kill an alternate reality galactus and turn him into the galactus engine (the very same one that ran a train on galactus and a crap ton of celstials) ?

Both these jobbers get koed off panel. Originally posted by CortSether
The Ancient One's peer Kaluu couldn't even make it to the realm of Shuma's lieutenant Arioch without slowly dying due to the realm's overwhelming energy and being rendered useless, and Kaluu is a guy who has hung out in Raggador's realm for over 500 years and mastered a variety of black magic from Chthon's Darkhold.

Cyttorak gets wrecked despite what that doofus Tom Brevoort believes. I'd even go so far as to say Shuma's servant Ghaszaszh Nyirh could go toe-to-toe with Cyttorak on his own.



Shuma-Gorath was a threat to the entire cosmos when Englehart was writing him.
And then Strange casually defeats him off panel in Marvel Knights like it wasn't even a big deal.

Gorath is all hype and riding on other characters' feats.

Originally posted by deathslash
this. Also didn't shuma and his brethren kill an alternate reality galactus and turn him into the galactus engine (the very same one that ran a train on galactus and a crap ton of celstials) ?

At least one of the Many-Angled Ones of which Shuma is a part of did. He's the only MAO with any past feats or appearances and is the master of the Old ones as stated on panel and in his OHOTMU bio, so by default I'd consider him the most powerful of the MAO group until there is anything shown by its other members later that shows otherwise.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Both these jobbers get koed off panel.
And then Strange casually defeats him off panel in Marvel Knights like it wasn't even a big deal.

Gorath is all hype and riding on other characters' feats.



Defeated a "weak and hungry" Shuma-Gorath, as stated by Nicholas Scratch. Strange still got beat up and collapsed right afterward, and could only banish Shuma through the magic of Stonehenge.

And as stated in both of Shuma-Gorath's appearances afterwards - Invaders Now (by Vision) and Mighty Avengers Vol 2 (by Spider-Hero) - it's not all of Shuma's essence that appears when summoned to the earthly plane. Strange just defeated a fractal of Shuma.

Its still lulzworthy.

Wow. Shuma-Gorath called "jobber"

Abhil'd

Originally posted by abhilegend
Its still lulzworthy.



Not really. Strange has downed a hungry Galactus with a simple Images of Ikonn spell.

a galactus that was shrinking and was taking on the armada of earth's heroes..............anyway,they beat the other in their native realms....in a neutral one,shuma seems to edge out,though i am not sure he has fought in a neutral realm yet

Shuma's taken over realms with his influence alone. He'd just go into Cyttorak's realm, absorb him and turn crimson colored.

Originally posted by CortSether
Not really. Strange has downed a hungry Galactus with a simple Images of Ikonn spell.
That Galactus was near death.

Unlike Shuma.

So yeah, not comparable.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That Galactus was near death.

Unlike Shuma.

So yeah, not comparable.

Shuma was bleeding from his eyeball and couldn't even open its eye all the way. So in terms of being not even near full strength, it's totally comparable.

Nope.

Yep.

Cyttorak.

Originally posted by Zack M
Cyttorak is a loser who got punched out by his own avatar.

His own Avatar was sharing his power. Anyways, with just a portion of Cyttorak power, his punches were destroying dimensions. If he would've kept pounding, he would have destroyed everything.

Has dr strange faced cyttorak before?

Doc Strange was terrified of Cyttorak. He could've faced him but he decided not too.

My bad...they faced each other again..during this scene.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111122629/3287174-2204389294-drstr.jpg

Will post the rest later.

Cyttorak was pretty much owning everyone with just the bypassing of his energy. Was said that Galactus himself would've been crushed.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111122629/3287175-4384409095-drstr.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111122629/3287176-0340800028-10862.jpg

Strange telling us he is helpless amongst the power of Cy.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111122629/3287177-9649858387-15204.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111122629/3287178-7448512268-15204.jpg

Remember, Strange was with Galactus and the crew in the dimension. He admits none of them could free him.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111122629/3287179-4397137295-15204.jpg

The Strange that faced Shuma would have owned Cyttorak right there.

I am beginning to lean towards cyttorak...do these two have any feats outside their realms?

Originally posted by carver9
His own Avatar was sharing his power. Anyways, with just a portion of Cyttorak power, his punches were destroying dimensions. If he would've kept pounding, he would have destroyed everything.

Juggernaut was punching through a dimensional barrier. Huge difference from actually destroying dimensions with his punches.

Originally posted by carver9
Doc Strange was terrified of Cyttorak. He could've faced him but he decided not too.

He was scared of Cyttorak while he was in his realm and at his standard level of power.

And yet the former Sorcerer Supreme was willing to kill himself just to prevent Shuma-Gorath from making it to Earth.

Originally posted by Genii96
I am beginning to lean towards cyttorak...do these two have any feats outside their realms?

Originally posted by Genii96
I am beginning to lean towards cyttorak...do these two have any feats outside their realms?

Well Strange couldn't even make it to Shuma's realm without massive power ups, otherwise he'd have gone comatose with Kaluu before he reached it.

Shuma also took part in the Cancerverse fiasco. That event alone puts him above Cyttorak.

Originally posted by carver9
Cyttorak was pretty much owning everyone with just the bypassing of his energy. Was said that Galactus himself would've been crushed.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111122629/3287175-4384409095-drstr.jpg


There's so much wrong with your scans it's not even funny. This is where this particular series of scans stops. It has nothing to do with the scan that comes next in your post, this does :
http://s4.postimg.org/owudva3ux/2036134_drstrangesorcerersuprem.jpghttp://s12.postimg.org/7o5t88eeh/2036135_drstrangesorcerersuprem_1.jpg http://s12.postimg.org/8rpxk6z1l/2036136_drstrangesorcerersuprem_2.jpg http://s12.postimg.org/wwqn1wjc9/2036137_drstrangesorcerersuprem_3.jpg
Cytorrak didn't own everyone. He had his hands full with Watoomb.

Then the Vishanti show up and they all know their place. The very same Vishanti that fought against and couldn't put down Shuma Gorath :
http://s18.postimg.org/6uwfd6flx/928618_shumagorathvishanti1.jpg

@Zop...

You missed the purpose of the scans. It had nothing to do with who saves Strange. The point was, Strange was helpless against Cyttorak and admitted no one could save him which included Galactus and his crew. That speak volumes. Your scans were irrelevant.

Strange was powerless in those scans. His internal magic was spent and had no ability to call on skyfathers for help.

Shuma is a whole different beast.

Originally posted by carver9
@Zop...

You missed the purpose of the scans. It had nothing to do with who saves Strange. The point was, Strange was helpless against Cyttorak and admitted no one could save him which included Galactus and his crew. That speak volumes. Your scans were irrelevant.
My scans are not irrelevant. You said he was owning everyone there and that wasn't true.

Originally posted by long pig
Strange was powerless in those scans. His internal magic was spent and had no ability to call on skyfathers for help.

Shuma is a whole different beast.

Not saying you're wrong but where was it said that he was powerless.

Originally posted by zopzop
My scans are not irrelevant. You said he was owning everyone there and that wasn't true.

They wasn't there when Strange said that.

Has Cyttorak ever been considered a threat to the 616 universe? Because Shuma-Gorath was in his debut.


http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/24264646_1.jpg

Doctor Strange: ...But if I cannot discover some means of escape, the dread Shuma-Gorath will lay waste to the cosmos!


http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/24264647_2.jpg

Shuma-Gorath: When Shuma-Gorath doth rule Reality, my first act shall be to bury thee alive!"


http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/24264648_3.jpg

Shuma-Gorath: Earth shall be but the initial step in my conquest of the cosmos!"

Zzzzzzz.

You add so much to this thread Zack M
/s

Originally posted by CortSether
Has Cyttorak ever been considered a threat to the 616 universe? Because Shuma-Gorath was in his debut.


http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/24264646_1.jpg

Doctor Strange: ...But if I cannot discover some means of escape, the dread Shuma-Gorath will lay waste to the cosmos!


http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/24264647_2.jpg

Shuma-Gorath: When Shuma-Gorath doth rule Reality, my first act shall be to bury thee alive!"


http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/24264648_3.jpg

Shuma-Gorath: Earth shall be but the initial step in my conquest of the cosmos!"
Eh, that's pretty standard for nearly every villain of Strange in that Era.

"I will conquer universe blah blah blah"

Originally posted by CortSether
You add so much to this thread Zack M
/s
Unlike you with non feats and hyperboles.

Right.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Unlike you with non feats and hyperboles.

Right.

You have a Shuma lowballing quota you need to fulfill regularly?

Originally posted by CortSether
You have a Shuma lowballing quota you need to fulfill regularly?
I just like to make fun of non feat wonders like Shuma or Cyttorak.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I just like to make fun of non feat wonders like Shuma or Cyttorak.



You clearly just hate seafood.

Originally posted by CortSether
You add so much to this thread Zack M
/s

Zzzzzz...

Originally posted by CortSether
You clearly just hate seafood.
Probably.

Originally posted by CortSether
You have a Shuma lowballing quota you need to fulfill regularly?

Since you're asleep, let me leave you a message.

Shuma-Gorath wins.

Hyperbole award?

Nope.

Boring villain of the year award?

Originally posted by CortSether
You have a Shuma Marvel lowballing quota you need to fulfill regularly?
Originally posted by Zack M
Hyperbole award?
Research the "Wings of Needless Sorrow" and you'll see Gorath was far from hype.

He wins this.

Originally posted by Zack M
Boring villain of the year award?

Superman's villains always win this one.

Originally posted by Zack M
Boring villain of the year award?

A psychic teleporting, shapeshifting cosmic eyeball tentacle monster is boring?

Originally posted by CortSether
Since you're asleep, let me leave you a message.

Shuma-Gorath wins.
An ass kicking. Sure.

Originally posted by abhilegend
An ass kicking. Sure.

Wait, I thought you said both were equally hopeless?

They both get an ass kicking. Somehow.

Ah. Basically, a different version of Rhino vs. Killer Croc thread?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Superman's villains always win this one.

I don't know, Shuma doesn't really do anything for me. Most of his appearances are underwhelming.

Originally posted by Zack M
I don't know, Shuma doesn't really do anything for me. Most of his appearances are underwhelming.
Not his classic appearances.

Current Marvel writers are sh|tting all over established characters to prop up their pet movie franchises.

Originally posted by zopzop
Not his classic appearances.

Current Marvel writers are sh|tting all over established characters to prop up their pet movie franchises.

At the very least they've been kind enough to always mention that he's at a fraction of his true power when summoned and he's gotten rid of through banishment and plot device weapons.

Mar-Vell summoning him in a group in Thanos Imperative could have been really cool, but we never got to see their full forms on panel, just a tangled mass, which was some bs.

Originally posted by zopzop
Not his classic appearances.

Current Marvel writers are sh|tting all over established characters to prop up their pet movie franchises.

DC has been better with power levels, I think.

I think Cyttorak is more famous. Even Dormammu uses his crimson bands for various purposes. In a battle I might lean toward Cyttorak. They've never been directly compared in comics but Strange did kill one of Gorath's minions by chucking his crimson crystals of Cyttorak at him.

http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/24284750_Shuma.jpg

Not battle related, but I emailed Steve Englehart the other day and asked him how they came up with Shuma-Gorath. Here's his response.

http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t1/24284753_eng.jpg