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We all know that Mjolnir is very durable but it isn't indestructible. I wonder if the enchantment is actually stronger than the durability of the hammer itself.

Say Mjolnir is lying on an indestructible ground and an unworthy character with limitless strength tries to lift it.
The question is :

What happens first?

1. Mjolnir breaks when the character tries to lift it.
2. The character lifts Mjolnir without it breaking.

State which one and why then Vote in the poll

omg

tomato

Neither. The enchantment holds while protecting the hammer in the process. The limitless strength person may rip his/her own fingers off while trying though.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Neither. The enchantment holds while protecting the hammer in the process. The limitless strength person may rip his/her own fingers off while trying though.

This.

But if we're forcing one of the two scenarios, I'd say the enchantment is stronger than the hammer.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Neither. The enchantment holds while protecting the hammer in the process. The limitless strength person may rip his/her own fingers off while trying though. The person with limitless strength has infinite durability to support his strength. So which happens first?

Originally posted by h1a8
The person with limitless strength has infinite durability to support his strength. So which happens first? He gets tired.

Originally posted by Smurph
He gets tired. How? He has limitless strength and can lift with any amount of strength instantly, even if it is infinite.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Neither. The enchantment holds while protecting the hammer in the process. The limitless strength person may rip his/her own fingers off while trying though.

Can Classic Juggy lift the mallet?

There is no way around the enchantment. What Rulk did in space was poor writing. even if the hammer was in zero gravity, it should have remained fastened to that spot.

Originally posted by h1a8
We all know that Mjolnir is very durable but it isn't indestructible. I wonder if the enchantment is actually stronger than the durability of the hammer itself.

Say Mjolnir is lying on an indestructible ground and an unworthy character with limitless strength tries to lift it.
The question is :

What happens first?

1. Mjolnir breaks when the character tries to lift it.
2. The character lifts Mjolnir without it breaking.

State which one and why then Vote in the poll

with the exception to bad writing, the enchantment is about as good as it gets..strength isnt lifting it. ud need divine power

Originally posted by Sin I AM
with the exception to bad writing, the enchantment is about as good as it gets..strength isnt lifting it. ud need divine power This is a character with infinite strength. Mjolnir doesn't have infinite durability and the enchantment isn't infinite powered. So which happens first?

Originally posted by h1a8
This is a character with infinite strength. Mjolnir doesn't have infinite durability and the enchantment isn't infinite powered. So which happens first?


Read up on Uru. Uru alone is a very durable high herald material (Tier 4 material), but when enchanted it becomes even more durable. Trying to make sense of Mjolnir will not work, because it is magical. Now on the other hand it has been broken, but again, trying to make sense of it will only serve to confuse you. It is very likely that Mjolnir may actually break before the enchantment does, if the unworthy being truly has infinite strength. Then again...

It wouldn't break because no part of it would move, so there would be no pressure via leverage from the handle onto the hammer.

Originally posted by Scoobless
It wouldn't break because no part of it would move, so there would be no pressure via leverage from the handle onto the hammer.

This. The guy with infinite strength would be tugging at the hammer for an infinite amount of days.

Originally posted by Scoobless
It wouldn't break because no part of it would move, so there would be no pressure via leverage from the handle onto the hammer. So you are saying that Mjolnir has infinite durability? How? It was broken many times.

Originally posted by carver9
This. The guy with infinite strength would be tugging at the hammer for an infinite amount of days. How? Mjolnir doesn't have infinite durability. You guys are coping out.

I dont think any answer here will make you happy unless they say the hammer breaks.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I dont think any answer here will make you happy unless they say the hammer breaks. tbh, I have no phuking clue to what will happen. That's why I have a poll. My guess is the hammer will be lifted. The durability is greater than the enchantment. But I honestly don't know.

Originally posted by Smurph
He gets tired.

Originally posted by h1a8
How? He has limitless strength and can lift with any amount of strength instantly, even if it is infinite.

He lifts everything instantly, thus no cardio.

To my knowledge, the 616 hammer is batting 1000 when it comes to the unworthy attempting to lift it (unliving beings and peers of Odin are exempt)

Originally posted by psycho gundam
To my knowledge, the 616 hammer is batting 1000 when it comes to the unworthy attempting to lift it (unliving beings and peers of Odin are exempt) So what do you thinks happens? Mjolnir breaks or it gets lifted in one piece?

Honestly? Your fictional lifter breaks before the hammer does, or is lifted.
Breaks, or just gives up and walks away.

Originally posted by h1a8
So what do you thinks happens? Mjolnir breaks or it gets lifted in one piece?

The problem here isn't the question, it's your limited concept of what constitutes an answer.

Think of it like this:

Is a cat ten times smarter than you, or is it twenty times smarter than you?

Pick one.

You are only allowing for choices between two possible answers that may both be flawed.

But could the cat lift the hammer?

The enchantment gets broken. Its not infallible after all.

Stormbreaker is better.

Originally posted by h1a8
So what do you thinks happens? Mjolnir breaks or it gets lifted in one piece? Odin and Gaea lifted the hammer but they are a sky-father that gave it it's power and an elder goddess. She magically raised the hammer off the ground at that.

I think the Serpent did as well but I don't much recall that arc

Hammer breaks sems more plausible.

IIRC Hammer has been broken more times than the worthy spell.

In the realm of "comics" magic is harder to explain though

Originally posted by psycho gundam
I think the Serpent did as well but I don't much recall that arc

Well, Fear Itself was a waste of time, so nobody can blame you. He definitely shattered Cap's shield, don't remember if he stopped/lifted Mjolnir.

Bor caught and wielded the hammer. But he couldn't replicate that feat under Bendis, either because Bendis couldn't force himself to read his only appearance before using the character (classic Bendis) or because Bor was undead.

The lifter's hand slips and he falls on his butt, he then runs away crying like a little baby.

Imo, the enchantments greater.

We already know what happens with an unworthy being with limitless strength. Hulk.

Should the God of Strength decide to lift it, the hammer would first begin to crack and eventually, once broken enough, the enchantment would dissipate from the hammer.

This depends.

Just recently Odin himself couldn't lift the hammer.
http://s12.postimg.org/3xqf6316x/wox65gvz26wgjljsc6gm.jpg

BUT....

Zeus caught the hammer for a second or two before it slipped his grasp and returned to Thor's hand. Thor was amazed that Zeus was even able to accomplish that.
http://s29.postimg.org/np29o2wg3/2066506_thorvszeus01annual08.jpg

Mephisto caught the hammer, slagged it, recreated it, then flung it back at Thor. This was in his realm though.
http://s10.postimg.org/yw8t1qr1x/Thorvs_Mephisto09.jpg

Molecule Man ripped the hammer from Thor's hand and atomized it.
http://s10.postimg.org/gyjhk72id/2584718_a215_weaponsdestroyed.jpg

Mjonir's enchantment is magical,pjysical strength won't do squat...ur gonna have to have greater magical powers than those which enchant mjonir to ignore its rule

Originally posted by Scoobless
Neither. The enchantment holds while protecting the hammer in the process. The limitless strength person may rip his/her own fingers off while trying though.

Originally posted by h1a8
The person with limitless strength has infinite durability to support his strength. So which happens first?

I'm going to assume he is immortal mnow too.

So nothing happens.... forever. The strongest, toughest being to ever exist simply stays in one spot forever, never accomplishing a single task. He becomes something of a tourist attraction at first, until the people get bored of his statue-like performance, over the years he is simply forgotten as the world grows around him, covered by vines and moss, he eventually fades from memory entirely.

Then one day, thousand of years from now, he will accidentally be uncovered by a more advanced civilisation. They will study him, use his DNA to create a virtually unstoppable army and go on to conquer the universe; all the while Odin and Loki are watching on, chortling away at the foolishness of mortals, wondering why Thor never reclamied his most valued posession from this stupid, stupid man.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Imo, the enchantments greater.

We already know what happens with an unworthy being with limitless strength. Hulk.
In this case, a Hulk with no feats.

Infinite Strength is above the Skyfather tier, so a being would lift it, attached to a Planet, he would lift the Planet with it, otherwise he would lift it from the ground without the Hammer breaking. The idea that an being with infinite strength would fail is lulzworthy.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Infinite Strength is above the Skyfather tier, so a being would lift it, attached to a Planet, he would lift the Planet with it, otherwise he would lift it from the ground without the Hammer breaking. The idea that an being with infinite strength would fail is lulzworthy.

Hulk is above Skyfather.
You heard it here first, folks!
gossip

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
The idea that an being with infinite strength would fail is lulzworthy.

Strength has nothing to do with lifting the hammer though. The enchantment is infinite in its own right. Look at it this way. When Excalibur was lodged in the stone no amount of force could move it. It had nothing to do with strength. People are thinking wayyyy to into this

Originally posted by riv6672
In this case, a Hulk with no feats.

It was Doc Green, who carver has many feats for, lol.

But yes, I echo Sin's sentiment. You all are approaching this like Stark would, applying laws of logic and physics to a magical object.

Holy no limits fallacy in this thread!

This happens...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11114/111146542/4395602-hulkbrokenthorshammer.jpg

Or this happens...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/94164/3535780-indestructible+hulk6+by+walt+simonson.jpg

Or it budge...

http://berkeleyplaceblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/IMG_7379.jpg

On the real though this is the perfect scan for this thread...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124015/2421669-Thor_400-37.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It was Doc Green, who carver has many feats for, lol.

But yes, I echo Sin's sentiment. You all are approaching this like Stark would, applying laws of logic and physics to a magical object.
I dont believe i'm overthinking this; OP generic character gets bored and leaves.

Originally posted by Scoobless
I'm going to assume he is immortal mnow too.

So nothing happens.... forever. The strongest, toughest being to ever exist simply stays in one spot forever, never accomplishing a single task. He becomes something of a tourist attraction at first, until the people get bored of his statue-like performance, over the years he is simply forgotten as the world grows around him, covered by vines and moss, he eventually fades from memory entirely.

Then one day, thousand of years from now, he will accidentally be uncovered by a more advanced civilisation. They will study him, use his DNA to create a virtually unstoppable army and go on to conquer the universe; all the while Odin and Loki are watching on, chortling away at the foolishness of mortals, wondering why Thor never reclamied his most valued posession from this stupid, stupid man. So you believe that Mjolnir has infinite durability? Because that's the only way your scenario works. If you don't then either Mjolnir breaks the 1st nanosecond or it is lifted the 1st nanosecond. The lifter has infinite strength.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Strength has nothing to do with lifting the hammer though. The enchantment is infinite in its own right. Look at it this way. When Excalibur was lodged in the stone no amount of force could move it. It had nothing to do with strength. People are thinking wayyyy to into this Assuming the enchantment is infinite (which this Must be proven) then certainly the durability of the hammer is not as its been broken many times. So your stance suggests that Mjolnir breaks before getting lifted.

Only thing that can over come hammer enchantment is a being with equal or greater magical enchantment. You could be SA Superman, Valdius, OWAW Superman, Trion Juggernaut etc unless you are sky father or above with powerful magical abilities and enchantment your picking up the hammer

Originally posted by the Darkone
Only thing that can over come hammer enchantment is a being with equal or greater magical enchantment. You could be SA Superman, Valdius, OWAW Superman, Trion Juggernaut etc unless you are sky father or above with powerful magical abilities and enchantment your picking up the hammer The hammer doesn't have infinite durability. It might break before succumbing to the enchantment. That's if you believe the enchantment is stronger.

Originally posted by h1a8
So you believe that Mjolnir has infinite durability? Because that's the only way your scenario works. If you don't then either Mjolnir breaks the 1st nanosecond or it is lifted the 1st nanosecond. The lifter has infinite strength.

I believe that the magical "logic" of the enchantment is that any attempt to lift Mjolnir by unworthy hands has zero effect on the hammer, therefore durability doesn't even come into play, it's as if nothing is happening from Mjonir's perspective. To the outside world it appears that great force is being brought to bear onto an inanimate object, but that simply isn't the case.

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n606/Scoobless/Magic_1.jpg

I think the scans posted by Zop are the best explaination for this scenario.

He posted 3 magical beings with enough power to over ride the enchantment and then one NON-magical being with enought power over riding the enchantment.

Because this is a non magic based being it seems that if you have enough power you will over ride the enchantment before the mallet breaks.

So I have to change my previous stance on the topic.

Originally posted by Scoobless
I'm going to assume he is immortal mnow too.

So nothing happens.... forever. The strongest, toughest being to ever exist simply stays in one spot forever, never accomplishing a single task. He becomes something of a tourist attraction at first, until the people get bored of his statue-like performance, over the years he is simply forgotten as the world grows around him, covered by vines and moss, he eventually fades from memory entirely.

Then one day, thousand of years from now, he will accidentally be uncovered by a more advanced civilisation. They will study him, use his DNA to create a virtually unstoppable army and go on to conquer the universe; all the while Odin and Loki are watching on, chortling away at the foolishness of mortals, wondering why Thor never reclamied his most valued posession from this stupid, stupid man.

Lmao.

Originally posted by h1a8
Assuming the enchantment is infinite (which this Must be proven) then certainly the durability of the hammer is not as its been broken many times. So your stance suggests that Mjolnir breaks before getting lifted.

No. And your train of thought seems to be too one dimensional to grasp my example. But i will try to explain one more time for shits and giggles. In the Sword and the Stone ( a myth telling of Authur becoming king) there was a saying that "whosoever pulls this sword from the stone is the rightful king of England". Men from all over and of great strength came to move the sword. All failed. Not because they werent strong enough but because "they" were not meant to move it. Mjolnir is just this times one million. If you're using solely strength to budge an object that requires a different method to lift it you're essentially failing. You're trying to force us to prove it's infinitely durable when durability has nothing to do with it. Your derailing the topic by arguing points that have zero bearing. Unless you have a scan of someone making it budge on strength alone i fail to see the purpose of this thread other than your normal day to day posts that only manage to ruffle feathers...

Originally posted by Scoobless
I'm going to assume he is immortal mnow too.

So nothing happens.... forever. The strongest, toughest being to ever exist simply stays in one spot forever, never accomplishing a single task. He becomes something of a tourist attraction at first, until the people get bored of his statue-like performance, over the years he is simply forgotten as the world grows around him, covered by vines and moss, he eventually fades from memory entirely.

Then one day, thousand of years from now, he will accidentally be uncovered by a more advanced civilisation. They will study him, use his DNA to create a virtually unstoppable army and go on to conquer the universe; all the while Odin and Loki are watching on, chortling away at the foolishness of mortals, wondering why Thor never reclamied his most valued posession from this stupid, stupid man.

This has vote for best post ever made.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Strength has nothing to do with lifting the hammer though. The enchantment is infinite in its own right. Look at it this way. When Excalibur was lodged in the stone no amount of force could move it. It had nothing to do with strength. People are thinking wayyyy to into this
What the ****?

Originally posted by abhilegend
What the ****?

Problem?

I thought Thor moved exacliber.?

Originally posted by carver9
I thought Thor moved exacliber.?

Not that Excalibur carver...the one from myth. The real shit..

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Problem?

Apparently you don't know how to read comics? Since when is the enchantment on mjolnir infinite in power? Or how is a legend of Excalibur in real life relevant here?

Say pre-retcon Beyonder wants to lift the hammer? He can't, right?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Apparently you don't know how to read comics? Since when is the enchantment on mjolnir infinite in power? Or how is a legend of Excalibur in real life relevant here?

Say pre-retcon Beyonder wants to lift the hammer? He can't, right? Beyonder is infinite + 1.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
No. And your train of thought seems to be too one dimensional to grasp my example. But i will try to explain one more time for shits and giggles. In the Sword and the Stone ( a myth telling of Authur becoming king) there was a saying that "whosoever pulls this sword from the stone is the rightful king of England". Men from all over and of great strength came to move the sword. All failed. Not because they werent strong enough but because "they" were not meant to move it. Mjolnir is just this times one million. If you're using solely strength to budge an object that requires a different method to lift it you're essentially failing. You're trying to force us to prove it's infinitely durable when durability has nothing to do with it. Your derailing the topic by arguing points that have zero bearing. Unless you have a scan of someone making it budge on strength alone i fail to see the purpose of this thread other than your normal day to day posts that only manage to ruffle feathers... You seem to not understand common sense. This this is about whether Mjolnir will be lifted or broken. If the enchantment keeps the hammer from being lifted then there is pressure on Mjolnir when it is attempted to be lifted. If the enchantment is strong enough and the lifting force is great enough then Mjolnir will break under the pressure. If you are arguing that Mjolnir will not be lifted then you must accept that it will get broken instead (while still not being lifted).

Your Excalibur analogy is faulty since the sword can be destroyed and broken with sufficient force. It can be snapped in half. If Mjolnir can't be lifted then it will be broken in the process.

Now if you are arguing that the enchantment will protect Mjolnir from being broken then this is a different story. Are you?

Originally posted by h1a8
You seem to not understand common sense. This this is about whether Mjolnir will be lifted or broken. If the enchantment keeps the hammer from being lifted then there is pressure on Mjolnir when it is attempted to be lifted. If the enchantment is strong enough and the lifting force is great enough then Mjolnir will break under the pressure. If you are arguing that Mjolnir will not be lifted then you must accept that it will get broken instead (while still not being lifted).

Your Excalibur analogy is faulty since the sword can be destroyed and broken with sufficient force. It can be snapped in half. If Mjolnir can't be lifted then it will be broken in the process.

Now if you are arguing that the enchantment will protect Mjolnir from being broken then this is a different story. Are you?

But its magic.....why are you applying physics and scientific laws to it?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Apparently you don't know how to read comics? Since when is the enchantment on mjolnir infinite in power? Or how is a legend of Excalibur in real life relevant here?

Say pre-retcon Beyonder wants to lift the hammer? He can't, right?

Beyonder could lift it, or just make his own.

My take is that the enchantment isn't infinite. Nothing is unless specified or shown by narration.

We also seen Thor lift Mjolnir an inch when he wasn't worthy. So there are various levels of worthiness.

Also the enchantment doesn't protect Mjolnir from being broken since Mjolnir has been broken many times.

So either Mjolnir is lifted instantly or it breaks instantly. These are the only options that exists.

For those who disagree and believe the hammer will not be lifted or broken with infinite force then you must explain how Mjolnir has been broken and you must also prove that the enchantment has infinite power.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But its magic.....why are you applying physics and scientific laws to it? Magic is science. Just more sophisticated.

I'm applying logic actually. If Mjolnir resists infinite force then the enchantment is of infinite power.

And if you believe that the enchantment grants Mjolnir infinite durability (so that it won't get broken) then you are suggesting that Mjolnir is completely indestructible when it is lying on the ground.

Originally posted by h1a8
Magic is science.

...

Originally posted by Mindset
... Well it is. The Causation proves it.

Originally posted by h1a8
Magic is science. Just more sophisticated.

This isn't Arthur C Clarke hour.



Why are you applying logic to magic? The rules it follows are different.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This isn't Arthur C Clarke hour.



Why are you applying logic to magic? The rules it follows are different.

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/158/329/9189283.jpg

Originally posted by h1a8
Well it is. The Causation proves it. No.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
This isn't Arthur C Clarke hour.



Why are you applying logic to magic? The rules it follows are different. everything follows logic. Otherwise we couldn't debate about anything. Magic is logical. It makes sense in every way.

Originally posted by h1a8
Magic is science. Just more sophisticated.

I'm applying logic actually. If Mjolnir resists infinite force then the enchantment is of infinite power.

And if you believe that the enchantment grants Mjolnir infinite durability (so that it won't get broken) then you are suggesting that Mjolnir is completely indestructible when it is lying on the ground.

No, magic is not science or even logical...not in a comic book where the rules and logic within the story are always controlled and changed by the whim of forces (writers) outside of the story
It seems that, for the unworthy, the hammer ignores strength altogether for the purpose of lifting. Sufficiently powerful cosmic or magical beings like Odin or Molecule Man can certainly override the enchantment. A physically strong enough being could just crush the hammer as well. You're not going to get a perfectly logical explanation until one is created in story.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Not that Excalibur carver...the one from myth. The real shit..
Myth. Real. KMC. Rules!

Originally posted by h1a8
You seem to not understand common sense. This this is about whether Mjolnir will be lifted or broken. If the enchantment keeps the hammer from being lifted then there is pressure on Mjolnir when it is attempted to be lifted. If the enchantment is strong enough and the lifting force is great enough then Mjolnir will break under the pressure. If you are arguing that Mjolnir will not be lifted then you must accept that it will get broken instead (while still not being lifted).

Your Excalibur analogy is faulty since the sword can be destroyed and broken with sufficient force. It can be snapped in half. If Mjolnir can't be lifted then it will be broken in the process.

Now if you are arguing that the enchantment will protect Mjolnir from being broken then this is a different story. Are you?

Maybe it was too subtle for u to grasp. My point is that mjolnir NEVER has been lifted by physical strength alone and never will. If ud care to prove otherwise im all ears

Originally posted by abhilegend
Apparently you don't know how to read comics? Since when is the enchantment on mjolnir infinite in power? Or how is a legend of Excalibur in real life relevant here?

Say pre-retcon Beyonder wants to lift the hammer? He can't, right?

If he is trying to lift it with STRENGTH alone then no he cannot. y are u going off topic

Yeah this keeps going into areas that dont matter here. On pure strength, the hammer isnt moving.

The handle snaps.

*drops mic*

This being with limitless strength will realize he/she can't lift it.Then thor will come pick it up, and hit them right in the ****ing face with it... **** this made up character.

Originally posted by burrrrrr
No, magic is not science or even logical...not in a comic book where the rules and logic within the story are always controlled and changed by the whim of forces (writers) outside of the story
It seems that, for the unworthy, the hammer ignores strength altogether for the purpose of lifting. Sufficiently powerful cosmic or magical beings like Odin or Molecule Man can certainly override the enchantment. A physically strong enough being could just crush the hammer as well. You're not going to get a perfectly logical explanation until one is created in story.

Irrelevant!

To claim that Mjolnir can not be lifted due to a magical spell is valid. But to claim Mjolnir can't be broken with physical force is wrong. Mjolnir has been broken with pure physical force before. So either the character lifts it or just breaks Mjolnir without lifting it.

Originally posted by h1a8
Irrelevant!

To claim that Mjolnir can not be lifted due to a magical spell is valid. But to claim Mjolnir can't be broken with physical force is wrong. Mjolnir has been broken with pure physical force before. So either the character lifts it or just breaks Mjolnir without lifting it.

Scans?

Originally posted by riv6672
Yeah this keeps going into areas that dont matter here. On pure strength, the hammer isnt moving. Then the hammer breaks. Isn't this common sense?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Scans? Scans of what?

Originally posted by h1a8
Scans of what?

Your imaginary character doing anything.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Your imaginary character doing anything. All characters are imaginary. Why troll?

Originally posted by h1a8
All characters are imaginary. Why troll?

Soooo lemme get this straight. Your character has no limits to srrength..durability..he's immortal..has an indestructible platform..indestructible leverage etc. And u want him to attempt to lift mjolnir but only within your two preordained parameters? Which as it is goes against everything weve already witnessed because as u well know mjolnir has never been lifted by strength alone. Yet IM trolling?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Soooo lemme get this straight. Your character has no limits to srrength..durability..he's immortal..has an indestructible platform..indestructible leverage etc. And u want him to attempt to lift mjolnir but only within your two preordained parameters? Which as it is goes against everything weve already witnessed because as u well know mjolnir has never been lifted by strength alone. Yet IM trolling? You are trolling.

Mjolnir not being lifted by this personification of a no limits fallacy is a no limits fallacy.

Originally posted by Mindset
You are trolling.

Mjolnir not being lifted by this personification of a no limits fallacy is a no limits fallacy.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Soooo lemme get this straight. Your character has no limits to srrength..durability..he's immortal..has an indestructible platform..indestructible leverage etc. And u want him to attempt to lift mjolnir but only within your two preordained parameters? Which as it is goes against everything weve already witnessed because as u well know mjolnir has never been lifted by strength alone. Yet IM trolling? If Mjolnir can't be lifted then it breaks. Just vote that it breaks. It's not hard.

Do you believe Mjolnir breaks?

Originally posted by Mindset
You are trolling.

Mjolnir not being lifted by this personification of a no limits fallacy is a no limits fallacy. Then you agree that Mjolnir breaks?

Originally posted by h1a8
Then you agree that Mjolnir breaks? I agree with everything you've ever said regarding comics.

Originally posted by Mindset
I agree with everything you've ever said regarding comics. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thank you. I appreciate it. No problem, man.

Originally posted by Mindset
I agree with everything you've ever said regarding comics.

Brown noser

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Brown noser h1a8 doesn't poop.

He is an angel sent down from heaven to teach us about comics.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
If he is trying to lift it with STRENGTH alone then no he cannot. y are u going off topic
Haha, what? So you are saying Odin is more powerful than Beyonder?

Originally posted by h1a8
If Mjolnir can't be lifted then it breaks. Just vote that it breaks. It's not hard.

Do you believe Mjolnir breaks?

I agree that you're a dumbass

Originally posted by abhilegend
Haha, what? So you are saying Odin is more powerful than Beyonder?

When did i say that? I said if beyonder tried lifting mjolnir with strength alone hed fail. Has mjolnir been lifted by strength alone? Stop being so coy abhi..if u wanna dance just ask stop beating around the bush

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I agree that you're a dumbass



When did i say that? I said if beyonder tried lifting mjolnir with strength alone hed fail. Has mjolnir been lifted by strength alone? Stop being so coy abhi..if u wanna dance just ask stop beating around the bush
Why not? If Beyonder fails against Odin's power, that means Odin is more powerful than him.

You are simply not understanding how comics work.

Originally posted by Mindset
h1a8 doesn't poop.

He is an angel sent down from heaven to teach us about comics.

He must not eat then. H1 recieves nourishment from sunlight.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Why not? If Beyonder fails against Odin's power, that means Odin is more powerful than him.

You are simply not understanding how comics work.

No you're over generalizing. I said if beyonder used just strength hed fail. Just like if odin used just strength hed fail. Take the other powere out of play

Originally posted by Sin I AM
No you're over generalizing. I said if beyonder used just strength hed fail. Just like if odin used just strength hed fail. Take the other powere out of play
facepalm

Strength IS power too if you don't know.

So TOAA will fail too if he wants to lift mjolnir with just strength, right?

Originally posted by abhilegend
facepalm

Strength IS power too if you don't know.

So TOAA will fail too if he wants to lift mjolnir with just strength, right?

Abhi look i like u..i really do. I know you're a flagrant fanboy and i respect that because atleast youre consistent. Atleast u back up ypur points with scans and whatnot (however out of context they may be). But if you want me to continue to talk to u like a man i will. If u want me to talk to u like a bitcch i can do that too. U know damn well what i mean. Has anyone EVER lifted mjolnir by using strength alone? No. Unless u can prove otherwise stop with the bs. Is toaa in this debate? No. It's hypothetical made up imaginary strong guy vs mjolnirs enchantment. It's on u to prove that it can be done. Hell if u can post a scan of someone budging mjolnir with solely strength id concede. Because atleast then youd have a basis for your argument.

Originally posted by Mindset
h1a8 doesn't poop.

He is an angel sent down from heaven to teach us about comics.

Originally posted by h1a8
Irrelevant!

To claim that Mjolnir can not be lifted due to a magical spell is valid. But to claim Mjolnir can't be broken with physical force is wrong. Mjolnir has been broken with pure physical force before. So either the character lifts it or just breaks Mjolnir without lifting it.

Nowhere did I "claim Mjolnir can't be broken with physical force." I said, right in my post, that Mjolnir can be crushed. When I say the hammer ignores strength altogether, I'm suggesting that the upward lifting force that your unworthy hypothetical character is trying to exert is negated. Due to magic Mjolnir hasn't, to my knowledge, been lifted through pure brute force so it's reasonable to suggest that the hammer's enchantment bypasses strength altogether.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Abhi look i like u..i really do. I know you're a flagrant fanboy and i respect that because atleast youre consistent. Atleast u back up ypur points with scans and whatnot (however out of context they may be). But if you want me to continue to talk to u like a man i will. If u want me to talk to u like a bitcch i can do that too. U know damn well what i mean. Has anyone EVER lifted mjolnir by using strength alone? No. Unless u can prove otherwise stop with the bs. Is toaa in this debate? No. It's hypothetical made up imaginary strong guy vs mjolnirs enchantment. It's on u to prove that it can be done. Hell if u can post a scan of someone budging mjolnir with solely strength id concede. Because atleast then youd have a basis for your argument.
So your whole point is that since nobody has yet lifted it with strength, nobody can do it at all?

Well, no limit fallacy has a new fan in you I think.

Keep going though. This is just amusing at this point.

Originally posted by burrrrrr
Nowhere did I "claim Mjolnir can't be broken with physical force." I said, right in my post, that Mjolnir can be crushed. When I say the hammer ignores strength altogether, I'm suggesting that the upward lifting force that your unworthy hypothetical character is trying to exert is negated. Due to magic Mjolnir hasn't, to my knowledge, been lifted through pure brute force so it's reasonable to suggest that the hammer's enchantment bypasses strength altogether.


Who is the strongest being who failed to lift it?

Superman.

Originally posted by abhilegend


Well, no limit fallacy has a new fan in you I think.



So, what would you call "infinite strength"?

Originally posted by abhilegend


Who is the strongest being who failed to lift it?

Re-read my post and then re-think your question.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Abhi look i like u..i really do. I know you're a flagrant fanboy and i respect that because atleast youre consistent. Atleast u back up ypur points with scans and whatnot (however out of context they may be). But if you want me to continue to talk to u like a man i will. If u want me to talk to u like a bitcch i can do that too. U know damn well what i mean. Has anyone EVER lifted mjolnir by using strength alone? No. Unless u can prove otherwise stop with the bs. Is toaa in this debate? No. It's hypothetical made up imaginary strong guy vs mjolnirs enchantment. It's on u to prove that it can be done. Hell if u can post a scan of someone budging mjolnir with solely strength id concede. Because atleast then youd have a basis for your argument. Thor budged it with strength alone in his trials.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I agree that you're a dumbass



When did i say that? I said if beyonder tried lifting mjolnir with strength alone hed fail. Has mjolnir been lifted by strength alone? Stop being so coy abhi..if u wanna dance just ask stop beating around the bush Then how can I see the obvious when you can't? If Mjolnir can't be lifted by strength (no limits fallacy ) then it can be broken. This is easy to understand.

You are scared to say that Mjolnir both won't be lifted or broken because you would look like an ass when someone proves it can be broken.

The thread is simple. Mjolnir will be lifted or Mjolnir will be broken. You are changing the thread into Mjolnir will be lifted or Mjolnir will not be lifted.

Originally posted by burrrrrr
Re-read my post and then re-think your question.

The thread is simple. Mjolnir will be lifted or Mjolnir will be broken. You are changing the thread into Mjolnir will be lifted or Mjolnir will not be lifted.

Originally posted by h1a8
The thread is simple. Mjolnir will be lifted or Mjolnir will be broken. You are changing the thread into Mjolnir will be lifted or Mjolnir will not be lifted.

Using a basic sales tactic of trying to force readers to choose between 2 choices that are desirable to you doesn't automatically make either of your choices correct.

Originally posted by burrrrrr
Using a basic sales tactic of trying to force readers to choose between 2 choices that are desirable to you doesn't automatically make either of your choices correct.

Then you champion the argument that Mjolnir can't be lifted or broken (that's the third option).

But this option doesn't exist since we know Mjolnir can be broken by physical force.

So it leaves with only 2 options. The ones I named.

You...just omitted lifting. From like, one sentence to the next.

Oh my gosh, this is even discussed? Ok, I admit I don't bother to read the no limit fallacy nonsense I expect to see on the last pages. Obviously there are two fractions, one believes that Magic has no limits and everything else does and the others believe that Magic can be overcome with enough force, like Juggernauts instopabbility...

So let's put the no limits fallacy and it's supporters to the test.

LT decides to lift Mjolnir with physical strength alone, he creates an indestructible ground where it rests and he decides to be unworthy, now he amps his physical strength with all the Omniversal energy at his command to lift it.

a) Will he fail to lift it and destroy it?
b) Will he fail to lift and not even damage it?
c) Will he lift it?

Just curious.

Edit: The Enchantment was made by an being with limited powers, everything that can surprass this power, energy/strength/magic, should by all means be able to overcome this.

You cant decide to be worthy/unworthy.
Good try, though.

Originally posted by riv6672
You cant decide to be worthy/unworthy.
Good try, though.

LT can I would say, but let's assume he is not worthy.

What is your answer?

I've already posted it. He gets bored and walks away.

Originally posted by riv6672
I've already posted it. He gets bored and walks away.

So LT fails against the Enchantment even if he amps his strength with the Energies of Megaverses? Ok, if that's your stance, the Enchantment of a Skyfather >>>>>> Omniversal energies, more power to you.

Thats the beauty of the enchantment, insofar as brute strength is concerned.

It isnt outmuscling the would be wielder, its using the nature of the wielder as a power source. If the wielder isnt worthy, strength wont matter.

Originally posted by riv6672
Thats the beauty of the enchantment, insofar as brute strength is concerned.

It isnt outmuscling the would be wielder, its using the nature of the wielder as a power source. If the wielder isnt worthy, strength wont matter.

I disagree with your assumption but to each his own. ^^

No worries.

I guess Juggernaut is unlimitedly unstoppable, then. After all, he has the enchantment of unstoppability. In a tug-of-war vs. every single version of Hulk (including WBH) simultaneously, Juggernaut would still win (assuming the rope was unbreakable). And you could add Zeus, Galactus, the entire race of Celestials, and the Living Tribunal to the other end, but the Juggernaut would still win no matter how much the team amped their strength levels. As long as they are only using physical strength Juggernaut would stomp them all.

Thats cute.

Originally posted by Magnon
I guess Juggernaut is unlimitedly unstoppable, then. After all, he has the enchantment of unstoppability. In a tug-of-war vs. every single version of Hulk (including WBH) simultaneously, Juggernaut would still win (assuming the rope was unbreakable). And you could add Zeus, Galactus, the entire race of Celestials, and the Living Tribunal to the other end, but the Juggernaut would still win no matter how much the team amped their strength levels. As long as they are only using physical strength Juggernaut would stomp them all.

Pretty much. Magic >>>> everything else.

Sore losers.

Originally posted by riv6672
Sore losers.
What? You've just argued that Juggernaut is truly unstoppable, shouldn't you be proud of your accomplishment instead of resorting to childish yapping?

Mjolnir enchant seems limitless... "Seems"... I wouldn't be surprised if an uber powerful character way beyond herald level can overpower it. And no.. Hulk and Superman will not be able to lift it in a comic book unless they are worthy for a time.
I'm certainly not going to assign a no limits fallacy.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Mjolnir enchant seems limitless... "Seems"... I wouldn't be surprised if an uber powerful character way beyond herald level can overpower it. And no.. Hulk and Superman will not be able to lift it in a comic book unless they are worthy for a time. I agree with you. A very rational and unbiased post. Congrats

Originally posted by h1a8
I agree with you. A very rational and unbiased post. Congrats


Glad we agree that High End Thor beats HP DD.. You know... No limits fallacy and all.

Congrats.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Mjolnir enchant seems limitless... "Seems"... I wouldn't be surprised if an uber powerful character way beyond herald level can overpower it. And no.. Hulk and Superman will not be able to lift it in a comic book unless they are worthy for a time.
I'm certainly not going to assign a no limits fallacy.

This is why H1 is hurting in the inside...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/91339/2648848-superman_mjolnir.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
This is why H1 is hurting in the inside...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/91339/2648848-superman_mjolnir.jpg I have no problem with Superman not being able to physically overpower the enchantment. But I do have a problem with him not being worthy while Captain America is.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17


Glad we agree that High End Thor beats HP DD.. You know... No limits fallacy and all.

Congrats. Lol I'm don't agree with that. I say that fight is spite in favor of DD.

Originally posted by carver9
This is why H1 is hurting in the inside...



Why do you keep tempting the mods for a ban?

Originally posted by h1a8
Lol I'm don't agree with that. I say that fight is spite in favor of DD.
His high end output exceeds hp dd.

Originally posted by h1a8
I have no problem with Superman not being able to physically overpower the enchantment. But I do have a problem with him not being worthy while Captain America is.

Why?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why?

Because his dream journal says so.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why? Because he is a boyscount. He has all the traits Cap does.
Eric Masterson was even able to lift Mjolnir. What does he have that Superman doesn't? I could be wrong as I kinda feel. So I don't mind and education right now.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
His high end output exceeds hp dd. No it doesn't. DD tanked a power beyond any output Thor has ever done in comics. I can prove it.

Originally posted by h1a8
I have no problem with Superman not being able to physically overpower the enchantment. But I do have a problem with him not being worthy while Captain America is.

1) Cap is more worthy than Superman, imho.

2) Read what Thor says - "in desperate hours". Both times Steve lifted it, hours were indeed desperate

Originally posted by h1a8
No it doesn't. DD tanked a power beyond any output Thor has ever done in comics. I can prove it.
Sure go ahead. Use the other thread.

Originally posted by h1a8
Because he is a boyscount. He has all the traits Cap does.
Eric Masterson was even able to lift Mjolnir. What does he have that Superman doesn't? I could be wrong as I kinda feel. So I don't mind and education right now.

Cap is a warrior/soldier. Superman isn't.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Cap is a warrior/soldier. Superman isn't.

this

Originally posted by h1a8
I have no problem with Superman not being able to physically overpower the enchantment. But I do have a problem with him not being worthy while Captain America is.

Why do you have a problem with Cap being more worthy?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Cap is a warrior/soldier. Superman isn't. Superman is a warrior. He knows MA and has many years of fighting experience . Didn't him and WW fight for thousands of years together when they were trapped in another dimension or something? Eric masterson, a non warrior lifted Mjolnir, to help Thor. He was found worthy because of his selflessness. He even took a blast that was meant for Thor. I think Superman would have done the same thing. It's really all about writers (which are inconsistent with each other). There is no set rule.

Originally posted by h1a8
Superman is a warrior. He knows MA and has many years of fighting experience . Didn't him and WW fight for thousands of years together when they were trapped in another dimension or something? Eric masterson, a non warrior lifted Mjolnir, to help Thor. He was found worthy because of his selflessness. He even took a blast that was meant for Thor. I think Superman would have done the same thing. It's really all about writers (which are inconsistent with each other). There is no set rule.

It's the mindset, not the knowledge. Superman has the training, but if he could help it, he would rather have a peaceful solution.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Why do you have a problem with Cap being more worthy? more worthy or worthy? I feel Superman has the exact same traits. He just doesn't fight as good.

Originally posted by h1a8
He just doesn't fight as good.

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