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Pre-Flashpoint Tim as RR vs. Captain Wilson.

Fight in NYC, civilians everywhere. To the knockout.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/2/25855/1279744-red_robin_the_grail_tp_400x620_1.jpg

vs.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/cc/77/7a/cc777a822a90f872a13616629de4d10c.jpg

For a second this thread was really confusing.

I wanna vote for Tim, but has Falcon been written up at all since becoming Cap?

Originally posted by -Pr-
For a second this thread was really confusing.

You thought I meant the video game char?

Originally posted by Smurph
I wanna vote for Tim, but has Falcon been written up at all since becoming Cap?

Not that I know. Haven't been reading much, though. Don't recall any feats ever being posted on KMC, sans that time when Ethan Apoc beat the living shit out of him... I guess you could say it was a durability feat that Sam survived.

But when it comes to PIStastic moments like that, Tim has actually contributed to beating Superboy Prime, hasn't he?

I'd also vote for Tim, tbh.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You thought I meant the video game char?



Mostly: I think Tim is a craftier fighter, just as physically capable (again, unless Falcon has upgrades), and Tim has gadgets.

So, points for Red Robin.

Tim did decently well against Ras Al Ghul iirc.

Lets DO this thing!!!

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=614730

I'd go Captain Falcon. He can fly, has the shield, and is a *very* good fighter to begin with.

Flight and shield gives him some nice tactical advantages.

DCnU Red Robin can also fly, a better fighter, IMO, and overall smarter.

Ffs, Golgo. Read the OP.

Kingdom Come Red Robin also has more experience.

Sam wins this.

I think Tim has better feats.

Sam summons and army of pigeons to scratch, peck, and poop on tim. While he's distracted, he gets knocked out.

Tim, easily.

Originally posted by Zack M
DCnU Red Robin can also fly, a better fighter, IMO, and overall smarter.

Tim's good, but a *better* fighter? Falcon is a very experienced skilled fighter himself. And has better melee gear.

Tim

Originally posted by Q99
Tim's good, but a *better* fighter? Falcon is a very experienced skilled fighter himself. And has better melee gear.

I was wondering this too. I'm a BIG Tim Drake fan (love all the "3rd" generation actually) and I he was never a great fighter. In fact, his whole "thing" was that he was the least physically skilled of all the Robin's and was more intellectual. I know he beat Ra's that one time but still.

Falcon is surely the better aerial fighter.

Originally posted by 80sBaby
I was wondering this too. I'm a BIG Tim Drake fan (love all the "3rd" generation actually) and I he was never a great fighter. In fact, his whole "thing" was that he was the least physically skilled of all the Robin's and was more intellectual. I know he beat Ra's that one time but still.

He was getting pretty good at the end pre-reboot due to him being an analytical fighter, but still, I'd say that's a reason he can compete with Sam on good terms.

And post, I don't get the impression he's as good as he was pre.

What feats does Sam have?

Trying to give Spider-Man a fight. Emphasis on trying.

But to be fair now, your example of Tim vs. R'as is pretty similar --- as physically, Tim was losing, but it wasn't his goal to actually beat R'as:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c7/63/5b/c7635b361d0772247a171dfa98cd58a5.jpg

So, how is Falcon a better fighter?

Never said that.

I tried looking for a good respect thread, but I can't fine one. There's gotta be a buncha scans of him fighting Capt foes somewhere.

Iirc he did beat Anti-Cap, who's, well, an anti-Captain America with serum and such.

In Mighty Avengers, he did well against She-hulk turned into a monster.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Never said that.

At this point, I think Tim wins. Sam has never really impressed me.

Well, for a *very* old one, Sam was quite able to give Steve a fight, as shown when he was controlled by Red Skull.

Meh. He attacked him from the back. Plus that's pretty old. Any RECENT showings?

Originally posted by Zack M
Meh. He attacked him from the back. Plus that's pretty old. Any RECENT showings?

He attacked from the back, but I meant a bit later on. Where Capt was up and recovered and Sam took him head on:

http://abload.de/img/captainamerica186-014qvink.jpg


As for recent... he's looked pretty awesome in his general heroing- Mighty Avengers had him fight monster versions of much of the team, here's him tossing a Wrecking Crew member- but I am having trouble finding....


Ah, finally! Found a Respect Thread

Hm, he did very well against Nuke who needs a surprise knife attack to stop Sam from beating him into the ground, beat 50s Capt, during an attack on the Thunderbolts to free Bucky-Cap he one-shotted Paladin and thew Nuke.

I assume his new series has more but I haven't snagged that yet.

Does DCnU Tim count, since much of the Batman mythos is still intact like the Green Lantern mythos?

Originally posted by Zack M
Does DCnU Tim count, since much of the Batman mythos is still intact like the Green Lantern mythos?


DCnU Tim and pre-52 Tim are definitely pretty different people. Unlike Dick and Damian, who are relatively unchanged, he had a major shift.

NuTim is not actually named 'Tim Drake,' that's his adopted name for example. He did not figure out Bruce's secret ID on his own. He does not have the training history. I don't think he's as good of a fighter as oldTim got to be, but on the flip side, he can fly.


New and Old Tim should be compared separately.

Originally posted by Q99
DCnU Tim and pre-52 Tim are definitely pretty different people. Unlike Dick and Damian, who are relatively unchanged, he had a major shift.

NuTim is not actually named 'Tim Drake,' that's his adopted name for example. He did not figure out Bruce's secret ID on his own. He does not have the training history. I don't think he's as good of a fighter as oldTim got to be, but on the flip side, he can fly.


New and Old Tim should be compared separately.

Yeah, there are a lot of differences to the bat characters. Even Cassandra Cain isn't her old self.

I see Tim as the smarter of the 2. I still think he can at least pull even.

He is very good at calculating a win, I dunno if it'd be enough though. Sam has an equipment edge, maneuverability edge, and like the linked respect thread shows, has done well against very strong foes like Nuke.