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16th dimensional abstracts vs the 5d imp,whose power reigns supereme?
1) They fight in the 3rd dimension
2) They fight in the 5th dimension
3) They fight in the 10th dimension

Worlds funniest Mxy wins or at the very least stalemate LT.

Mxy as normally portrayed loses against LT.

What did WF mxy do actually?,haven't really read that

Originally posted by Genii96
What did WF mxy do actually?,haven't really read that

Destroyed the whole DCU. That includes all timelines, all abstracts, and with a snap of his fingers he remade it.

In the end you found out, him and Batmite do this type of thing every week.

16D?

Zom, is that you?

Originally posted by SquallX

Destroyed the whole DCU. That includes all timelines,
all abstracts,
and with a snap of his fingers he remade it.
Aside from divine Spectre, who lost with a planet broken over his head

What "all abstracts" are ya referring to?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
16D?

Zom, is that you? He's probably referring to the dimension where some Marvel abstracts hang out:
http://i.imgur.com/fEJa9v2.jpg
"A 16-dimensional domain at the juncture of multiversal superspace."

...Which doesn't mean anything in regards to this battle.



Anyway, Mxy stomps. Even Joker, who was an absolute n00b with Mxy's power, very nearly succeeded in duplicating Mxy's feat during World's Funnest: destroying ALL possible timelineS across ALL possible universeS:
http://i.imgur.com/oBk03Kq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2LQbJ18.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/qiMKsFa.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
Aside from divine Spectre, who lost with a planet broken over his head

What "all abstracts" are ya referring to?

Beings like Death, destiny. Everything was claimed to have being destroyed.

Originally posted by SquallX

Beings like Death, destiny.
They were mentioned? Imo, they don't really have to be, but I'm just curious cause I don't recall.

I thought the Endless were special? ... Galan wut up?
Originally posted by SquallX

Everything was claimed to have being destroyed.
If WF is taken seriously, Mxy was God-like, no question.

But "everything" being destroyed has happened several times in Marvel.
... And even "everything: actually fighting back, has been destroyed/killed whathaveyou.

Mxy stomps.

Living Tribunal was killed by a couple of Beyonders. The entire Beyonder Race was killed by multi-universal power .

Mxy>>Beyonders>>LT

Originally posted by Mr Master
I thought the Endless were special? ... Galan wut up? The Endless are special--Death of the Endless is no exception. She is basically the concept of Death on a creation-spanning metaphysical/metatextual level. There are other Death abstracts in DC, but she is at the top of the pecking order, imo.


The Books of Magic showed us that Death of the Endless is the final concept/being that will be left when all of creation finally comes to an end(she outlasts even Destiny himself):
http://i.imgur.com/jtBHP0km.jpg
So despite the fact that there are multiple personifications of Death in DC, Death of the Endless seems to be the most powerful/important among them, given that she...and she alone...is the last thing left when everything ends.


As for where 'lesser' Death abstracts, like Nekron, stand in relation to Death of the Endless, I've always found this scene quite telling...

Lex: "The attack of the Black Lanterns! The dead rising! That's what this is about, isn't it? It was you behind that!"
Death: "Oh. Yeah. I noticed that. It looked like they were all having a great time. You know, people do come back from the dead. It's not a big deal... I AM kind of busy.":
http://i.imgur.com/QO5IJRBm.jpg


Lex: "The dead have come back to life! Several of them!"
Death: "It happens! In the end, they ALL come back to ME.":
http://i.imgur.com/6xhLI3nm.jpg



Death seemed to treat the entire Blackest Night affair like it was an insignificant event that barely warranted her attention, lol.

This is noteworthy, because Nekron is a bonafide universal Death-abstract. Additionally, he is very similar to Marvel's Oblivion in the sense that he also he embodies absolute nothingness. He IS the sentient blackness/void that existed before the DCU was even created. He IS "the empty space between atoms and planets":
http://i.imgur.com/PyM7RgKm.jpg


...So the fact that Death of the Endless was so dismissive of his shenanigans speaks volumes, imo.

Hey Galan, wheres that from?

Always been a fan of the Endless, wouldn't mind checking it out if it's any good.

First scan is from The Books of Magic #04 (1991)
Second and third scans are from Action Comics #894

Originally posted by Galan007

Death of the Endless and she alone...is the last thing left when everything ends.
Thanx G, I knew she was exceptional.

I also now see that DC's cosmic echelons (like Marvel's) are also writer dependent.

Did Mxy kill her and Destiny? I don't think that was portrayed, but are we supposed to factor that in after the fact?
I mean, it's cool, I've done it with Marvel "all reality" destroyers. (factoring in victims that weren't depicted)
That's the misery of 'writer dependance' ....

But do you accept that concerning Death and Destiny?

I believe that the intent of World's Funnest was that Mxy destroyed absolutely everyone, and everything, in DC's past/present/future.

I believe that too.

What's your hierarchy in DC good friend, like top 5 ever? I'm truly interested.

1. Primal Monitor
2. Presence/Non
3. Great Evil Beast/Pralya
4. The A (Since it's above even Mxy)
5. The Ultimator

Forgot about Empty Hand. Probably in top 5 somewhere.

There's also the Endless, the Gentry, Mandrakk, Ultra, and Thought Robot to consider... Among many others.

Ultimator may not have even been 'real', so I wouldn't put her on my list.

Originally posted by Galan007
There's also the Endless, the Gentry, Mandrakk, Ultra, and Thought Robot to consider... Among many others.

Ultimator may not have even been 'real', so I wouldn't put her on my list.

Would you place Ultra in the top 10 at least?

I would, yes.

Oh, shit, don't forget Bat-Mite.

He's literally just a small part of Mxy's power... So my placement for Mxy would blanket Bat-Mite as well.

Originally posted by Zack M

1. Primal Monitor
2. Presence/Non
3. Great Evil Beast/Pralya
4. The A (Since it's above even Mxy)
5. The Ultimator
Interesting.

Imo, the only cat on the DC side that encapsulates Shooter's vision of classic Beyonder is the Primal Monitor.

Didn't Mxy erase "Heaven" angels and all? (why's the Presence above him?)
Originally posted by Galan007

There's also the Endless, the Gentry, Mandrakk, Ultra, and Thought Robot to consider... Among many others.
If we canonize WF, then by default didn't all these cats get erased too?

Didn't Mxy and Mite end up floating on the Primal Monitor?

Given their metatextual nature, it's hard to say if they were erased or not.

Originally posted by Galan007

Given their metatextual nature, it's hard to say if they were erased or not.
I didn't realize those cats operated solely 4th wall style.

4th wall breakers shouldn't be included in this list cause they don't have to adhere to basic comic book laws.

Their match-ups would have to take place in a 4th wall breaking bubble with opponents of said type.

So, 4th wall comedy aside ... yur top 5 ever?

Hmm... You'll have to give me a little bit of time for that. I'll be sure not to include characters based solely on theoretical potential, either. I'll go solely by feats + status.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Interesting.

Imo, the only cat on the DC side that encapsulates Shooter's vision of classic Beyonder is the Primal Monitor.

If we canonize WF, then by default didn't all these cats get erased too?

Didn't Mxy and Mite end up floating on the Primal Monitor?

Regarding the Primal Monitor (or Overvoid), it is basically the page where the authors write, but it is also a conscious, perfect living void, labeled as God or Source by Grant Morrison.
What differentiates the concept of Mandrakk from the others and what makes it so far apart in power is that it is something which was thought by the Primal Monitor itself: Primal Monitor indeed thought Dax Novu, thus the latter was not something which was meant to be within creation (creation = DCU as a whole) to begin with, but something which originated on its own from the outside (PM).
Then Dax Novu got corrupted by the idea of "story" (DCU) and thus the very concept of Mandrakk was born: this is why, in SB, Mandrakk Dax Novu is described as a "self-assembling living story", and this is also why Grant Morrison himself described the whole idea of Mandrakk as the "page itself which gets pissed at the stories written on it and thus tries to erase them".

As for canonize WF, my personal opinion is that, as Galan said, TR and Mandrakk, being what they are, probably didn't get affected anyway: it was indeed said that the Circle of Monitors survived each kind of DC "reboot" and also kept record of that all, written into fictions of Earth-33.
Now you have to know that both Dax Novu and TR existed even before the Circle of Monitors: the former was the absolute first (other than most powerful) part of Primal Monitor which enetered the "flaw" (DC), when originally there was one universe, which then turned into the pre-COIE multiverse and which thus was studied and catalogued it all.

http://s18.postimg.org/qfgaafuo8/2015_01_28_07_22_32_The_Multiversity_Guidebo.jpg

But the essence of storyline itself corrupted Dax Novu into the idea of Mandrakk, thus generating its "self-assembling hyper story".
However, before total corruption, Dax Novu created the Thought Robot, which, as its name says, it is basically the idea (= thought) of Superman shaped into a doomsday weapon made of "divine metals" (note here that "divine metals" = pure thought here, since TR is both).
Dax Novu then placed such an immense construct near the pre-COIE multiverse, scabbing over the flaw, as reported in SB: in fact, the function of Thought Robot was not only to protect the flaw (DC) itself from the ultimate evil which is Mandrakk, but also to prevent that such a concept (generated, remember, by the contact of Dax Novu with stories) could spread into the Primal Monitor itself as a whole.

http://s9.postimg.org/r5cptc5i6/Final_Crisis_Superman_Beyond_001_021.jpg

Only after all of that the Primal Monitor literally thought the Circle of Monitors as an interface between itself and stories, and, as I wrote before, they kept record of every DC reboot.
Basically you have Dax Novu retired in the Abyss drinking Bleed and TR standing there, motionless and rusting, for eons, eons which correspond to every DC event that we read, by an outside-of-story point of view.


At the end of the day I think it's nearly impossible to estabilish an impartial and truthful "Top 5", however, if you ask for my personal opinion, Primal Monitor is obviously there (as it is the page, and without it nothing would be) and Dax Novu Mandrakk-TR are there as well because, for the way Grant Morrison intended them to be, I firmly believe that nothing but the Supreme Being (being it the Primal Monitor or the "author" who writes stories on it) could stand above them.

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
Regarding the Primal Monitor (or Overvoid), it is basically the page where the authors write, but it is also a conscious, perfect living void, labeled as God or Source by Grant Morrison.
What differentiates the concept of Mandrakk from the others and what makes it so far apart in power is that it is something which was thought by the Primal Monitor itself: Primal Monitor indeed thought Dax Novu, thus the latter was not something which was meant to be within creation (creation = DCU as a whole) to begin with, but something which originated on its own from the outside (PM).
Then Dax Novu got corrupted by the idea of "story" (DCU) and thus the very concept of Mandrakk was born: this is why, in SB, Mandrakk Dax Novu is described as a "self-assembling living story", and this is also why Grant Morrison himself described the whole idea of Mandrakk as the "page itself which gets pissed at the stories written on it and thus tries to erase them".

As for canonize WF, my personal opinion is that, as Galan said, TR and Mandrakk, being what they are, probably didn't get affected anyway: it was indeed said that the Circle of Monitors survived each kind of DC "reboot" and also kept record of that all, written into fictions of Earth-33.
Now you have to know that both Dax Novu and TR existed even before the Circle of Monitors: the former was the absolute first (other than most powerful) part of Primal Monitor which enetered the "flaw" (DC), when originally there was one universe, which then turned into the pre-COIE multiverse and which thus was studied and catalogued it all.

http://s18.postimg.org/qfgaafuo8/2015_01_28_07_22_32_The_Multiversity_Guidebo.jpg

But the essence of storyline itself corrupted Dax Novu into the idea of Mandrakk, thus generating its "self-assembling hyper story".
However, before total corruption, Dax Novu created the Thought Robot, which, as its name says, it is basically the idea (= thought) of Superman shaped into a doomsday weapon made of "divine metals" (note here that "divine metals" = pure thought here, since TR is both).
Dax Novu then placed such an immense construct near the pre-COIE multiverse, scabbing over the flaw, as reported in SB: in fact, the function of Thought Robot was not only to protect the flaw (DC) itself from the ultimate evil which is Mandrakk, but also to prevent that such a concept (generated, remember, by the contact of Dax Novu with stories) could spread into the Primal Monitor itself as a whole.

http://s9.postimg.org/r5cptc5i6/Final_Crisis_Superman_Beyond_001_021.jpg

Only after all of that the Primal Monitor literally thought the Circle of Monitors as an interface between itself and stories, and, as I wrote before, they kept record of every DC reboot.
Basically you have Dax Novu retired in the Abyss drinking Bleed and TR standing there, motionless and rusting, for eons, eons which correspond to every DC event that we read, by an outside-of-story point of view.


At the end of the day I think it's nearly impossible to estabilish an impartial and truthful "Top 5", however, if you ask for my personal opinion, Primal Monitor is obviously there (as it is the page, and without it nothing would be) and Dax Novu Mandrakk-TR are there as well because, for the way Grant Morrison intended them to be, I firmly believe that nothing but the Supreme Being (being it the Primal Monitor or the "author" who writes stories on it) could stand above them.

great write-up, man! Where do factor The Presence in all of this?

When did Grant Morrison claim him to be God?....

The Living Tribunal wins this.....
1. He replicated both Marvel/DC aka the brothers ying-yang which we cab include Mr.Mxyzptlk.
2. The Living Tribunal had been killed by Omnipotence only aka the Beyonders and I'm 100% sure Mr.Mxyzptlk ISNT infinite in power.

Also......using yet again PIS for the beyonders doesn't mean anything here in a debate which is for the plot only....
The Beyonders>The Living Tribunal>Mr.Mxyzptlk


LT stomps.

Mxy stomps.