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1.) Revan, as of the Battle of Malachor V since that was the last time Meetra Surik has ever seen Revan, was more powerful than anyone else she had ever met, meaning he is more powerful than Darth Nihilus:

"It was easy to understand how Scourge could be drawn to him; Revan's command of the Force was greater then that of anyone else she had ever met."

2.) Meetra Surik was in complete and utter awe over Darth Nihilus' destructive capabilities:

"To kill on such a scale... it's impossible. I don't understand - it would have taken several Republic cruisers to destroy the surface of Katarr."

3.) Meetra Surik found Darth Nihilus to be "far more powerful" than she had originally believed above when she confronted him:

"He speaks, his voice roaring, and the player should realize that Nihilus is far more powerful than they had believed."

4.) Revan had become "far more powerful" than the last time Meetra Surik had seen him:

"Revan had grown since then. He was far more powerful now."

5.) I found examples in Star Wars literature where Drew Karpshyn uses "command of the Force" to describe one's connection to the Force / raw power:

"Without proper training, even his enormous command of the Force was unable to anticipate the unfamiliar sequences of the two-handed fighting style."

"The lightsaber was an extension of the user and his or her command of the Force."

"But his command of the dark side was too powerful for it to hold him for more than a split second."

6.) In particular, this passage makes an explicit link between power and command of the Force:

"Was it possible there was some other essential element in the process that he was missing? Was there one more secret waiting to be unlocked that would finally allow him to create a Holocron so he could pass his wisdom and knowledge on to his successors? Or was the failure in him? Did he simply lack power? Was his command of the dark side somehow less than that of the ancient Sith Lords like Freedon Nadd?"

7.) Also in other works, we see "command of the Force" as a synonym for one's potential / raw power:

"Sometimes he felt there was so little he need to teach his Padawan. Even to Obi-Wan, who knew him so well, Anakin's command of the Force could be astonishing."

"His sensitivity was far from perfectly attuned and he sincerely doubted he would ever attain half the command of the Force that Kenobi had possessed? though the old man had expressed great confidence in Luke's potential. "

8.) Darth Malak was believed to may have eventually surpassed Darth Revan, meaning he also surpassed Darth Nihilus:

"When Revan fell we had hoped the Sith threat was ended. But Malak quickly assumed Revan's role, and has embraced the dark side power as fully as his old master ever did. Now Malak leads the Sith armada against the Republic. Hate and vengeance for his master's death draw Malak ever further down the path of the dark side, fueling his powers until they surpass those of his old master."

http://media.giphy.com/media/3BSk6i59RURDa/giphy.gif

No. Not even close.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No. Not even close.
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/business-people-clapping-19902368.jpg

Great argument.

Sorry, what I meant was that the entire idea is completely idiotic. As it has been every other time you've tried to suggest it.

Who gives a shit what Meetra Surik says, Revan hasn't done jack shit on Nihilus' level.

It's not an idea - it's a fact.

weren't you the guy trying to say Nihilus>Sidious/Luke?

http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/841309534.gif Man, Malak is good.

But Bandon is perfect.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's not an idea - it's a fact.



In-universe opinions aren't facts.

Originally posted by Nephthys
In-universe opinions aren't facts.
They're more factual than any rebuttal you can come up with.

@ Skillz

Like you said, Ant doesn't take Revan > Nihilus seriously... Oh wait, he just created an entire thread for it.

http://blog.rbutr.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/RequestRebuttal11.png

I support the Revan > Nihilus movement.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
But Bandon is perfect.

Bandon >>> Revan > Nihilus

Source for Kreia being Meetra Surik, Beni?

watch?v=f991gJOP47c

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Source for Kreia being Meetra Surik, Beni? Source for Meetra Surik disagreeing with Kreia? Don't remember that dialogue option.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Source for Meetra Surik disagreeing with Kreia?
The fact she regards him as "far more powerful" than she originally believed when confronting him.

That quote establishes that she regarded him, in some form, as powerful - and therefore didn't believe Kreia saying he had no power.

You think Meetra would draw more accurate conclusions from the person who taught him everything?

Key word being "in some form", you've yet to prove she meant in terms of his command over the Force i.e. connection to the Force.

Originally posted by Sinious
@ Skillz

Like you said, Ant doesn't take Revan > Nihilus seriously... Oh wait, he just created an entire thread for it.

Well I mean, he didn't before.

I, for one, am more than fine with this development.

It says the player is supposed to believe that Ant.

Considering the Exile cannot directly compare Nihilus' strength to someone given that she cannot directly sense it due to the unusual force presence (or lack thereof) he possesses, Meetra's opinion is basically worthless.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
You think Meetra would draw more accurate conclusions from the person who taught him everything?

Key word being "in some form", you've yet to prove she meant in terms of his command over the Force.

You mean the same mentor that straight up told Surik that his power was so great that he perceives the universe different than them?


Except that's not necessary. She can gauge his power based on his deeds. Visas Marr told her how he consumed the entire planet of Katarr. Tobin told her how he lifted multiple capital ships from orbit from Malachor and held it all together through his power. She was in the very room where Nihilus casually dominated her with the Force along with her companions. If that isn't enough for a definitive "holy **** he's powerful," than I don't know what is. And for the record, quote me on that people can't sense how powerful in the Force Nihilus is, because I call uber BS. The remnants of his power left a dark side nexus - not a void in the Force.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You mean the same mentor that straight up told Surik that his power was so great that he perceives the universe different than them?The same, and thanks for establishing that "power" when applied to Nihilus, does not mean in the conventional sense.

Fact is Nihilus doesn't have a connection to the living Force, therefore to pretend he has a "command over the Force" in the same manner others like Revan does is to be dishonest. We can't assume that the Exile is grouping Nihilus under the same umbrella.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Except that's not necessary. She can gauge his power based on his deeds. Visas Marr told her how he consumed the entire planet of Katarr. Tobin told her how he lifted multiple capital ships from orbit from Malachor and held it all together through his power. She was in the very room where Nihilus casually dominated her with the Force along with her companions. If that isn't enough for a definitive "holy **** he's powerful," than I don't know what is. And for the record, quote me on that people can't sense how powerful in the Force Nihilus is, because I call uber BS. The remnants of his power left a dark side nexus - not a void in the Force.

Your own quote has the Exile stating Nihilus' destruction of Katarr to be impossible. If Meetra really believed that Mando Wars Revan was superior him him despite gauging based on that feat, it'd be a major contradiction. Also a contradiction is that even Revan at his prime has all of ****nothing on those feats. It could be that Meetra dismissed those statements and judged Nihilus based on the highly weakened version she faced. Or maybe she just forgot about Nihilus when making the statement. Or maybe Meetra Surik is an absolutely colossal twit. Or maybe it's just Drew himself being a blithering moron. Or maybe Beni's suggestion is correct. Either way, it's not a compelling statement in the slightest.

Wounds in the Force feel like absences, like they're already dead.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
The same, and thanks for establishing that "power" when applied to Nihilus, does not mean in the conventional sense.

Fact is Nihilus doesn't have a connection to the living Force, therefore to pretend he has a "command over the Force" in the same manner others like Revan does is to be dishonest. We can't assume that the Exile is grouping Nihilus under the same umbrella.

For one, I, nor no one else, cares about your shitty theories on how the Force works.

Secondly, countless quotes has labeled Nihilus with a powerful connection to the dark side of the Force.
---
The only thing that disputes that is hyperbolic Kreia quotes. Wait, I think you have already commented on that one:

The conclusions you've reached on the basis of this quote assumes Kreia's words are to be taken literally. They are not.

The conclusions you've reached on the basis of this quote assumes Kreia's words are to be taken literally. They are not.

The conclusions you've reached on the basis of this quote assumes Kreia's words are to be taken literally. They are not.

The conclusions you've reached on the basis of this quote assumes Kreia's words are to be taken literally. They are not.

The conclusions you've reached on the basis of this quote assumes Kreia's words are to be taken literally. They are not.

The conclusions you've reached on the basis of this quote assumes Kreia's words are to be taken literally. They are not.
--Beniboybling

I think Beni's suggestion has a lot of sense to it. Nihilus doesn't have a conventional connection to the Force. Meetra could easily just be excluding him from her statement given his command over the force is not truly his own.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Your own quote has the Exile stating Nihilus' destruction of Katarr to be impossible. If Meetra really believed that Mando Wars Revan was superior him him despite gauging based on that feat, it'd be a major contradiction.
Yeah, you've already made this argument before. You're arguing semantics.

And plus, if we want to argue semantics, she said she didn't know it was possible to kill on such a scale, not that she didn't know the Force could be used to such an extent.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also a contradiction is that even Revan at his prime has all of ****nothing on those feats.
That's not a contradiction.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It could be that Meetra dismissed those statements and judged Nihilus based on the highly weakened version she faced.
You mean "the highly weakened version" that, when in the presence of, she thought of as "far more powerful" than the planet-consuming, fleet-lifting version she heard stories of and believed?


Originally posted by Nephthys
Or maybe she just forgot about Nihilus when making the statement.
She didn't make the statement. The narrator did reflecting the inner thoughts of Surik. That wouldn't be possible.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Or maybe Meetra Surik is an absolutely colossal twit. Or maybe it's just Drew himself being a blithering moron. Or maybe Beni's suggestion is correct. Either way, it's not a compelling statement in the slightest.
None of which are rebuttals.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wounds in the Force feel like absences, like they're already dead.
Prove it, because I have a quote saying otherwise.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I think Beni's suggestion has a lot of sense to it.
of course you do, KEK

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Yeah, you've already made this argument before. You're arguing semantics.

And plus, if we want to argue semantics, she said she didn't know it was possible to kill on such a scale, not that she didn't know the Force could be used to such an extent.

Sorry, I'll try coming up with unique rebuttals every time you try to pass your insanity off as fact in the future.

No, that's the same thing. If Meetra thought Revan were capable of something more impressive she wouldn't dismiss it as impossible.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That's not a contradiction.

It is. There's no supporting evidence for Meetra's statement. So her opinion is just that, a mere opinion. That has evidence suggesting she's wrong.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You mean "the highly weakened version" that, when in the presence of, she thought of as "far more powerful" than the planet-consuming, fleet-lifting version she heard stories of and believed?

No she didn't.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
She didn't make the statement. The narrator did reflecting the inner thoughts of Surik. That wouldn't be possible.

And Suriks inner thoughts are fallible. The narrator reflecting those thoughts can be just as flawed. I've read many books where the narration does such a thing.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
None of which are rebuttals.

They are. Meetra being stupid is a plausible explanation. As is Beni's. And we know that Drews an idiot who barely researched Kotor 2, so thats an actual fact.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Prove it, because I have a quote saying otherwise.

"You saw it in his walk, and in the Force. It was as if he was already dead."

Lol Ant my "shitty theory" is substantiated by facts, if you're going to dispute it present some counter-evidence or accept its validity.

Anyway the point eludes you, so I'll be clear.

Based off the quote you've raised we can conclude that Meetra refers to "anyone" with a "command of the Force."

Considering however that the manner in which Nihilus wields the Force is confirmed to be unconventional by multiple sources, and that Nihilus doesn't even conform to the criteria of a person. We can't assume Meetra places Nihilus under the above umbrella.

And you've in so far failed to prove she does.

P.S. For the record you're (or rather I am) correct, Kreia's statement isn't to be taken literally, but the obvious implication is Nihilus wields the Force unconventionally. Nice try tho.

Ant soloing this thread atm.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well I mean, he didn't before.

I, for one, am more than fine with this development. I know, and yeah this is indeed a pleasing outcome.

Tbh it doesn't really change anything, aside from a nexus feat almost everything Nihilus has done has been a product of his Force wound.

But Ant is still wrong.

Originally posted by Sinious
Ant soloing this thread atm.
I'll respond to these bitches again by tonight hopefully, kek

Neph basically already conceded though, and Beni's views are based on Force speculation, so I guess I already won.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Tbh it doesn't really change anything, aside from a nexus feat almost everything Nihilus has done has been a product of his Force wound.
Come here.

I have a secret for you.

No one on KMC believes your retarded theories on the Force.

Even Neph wouldn't if he read your posts on them.

Lol Ant, you still butt hurt ILS preferred by blog to you're Revan Respect Thread?

Too much salt is bad for you tbh.

Nah, objectively speaking Ant's Revan thread is better

Originally posted by ILS
Nah, objectively speaking Ant's Revan thread is better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm660vIn8Tg


http://www.rapereliefshelter.bc.ca/

Originally posted by ILS
Nah, objectively speaking Ant's Revan thread is better Dis guy. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/1790400411.gif

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Dis guy. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/1790400411.gif
http://brilliantpos.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/concession-stand-pic.jpeg

Don't make me wait.

He said "objectively", I concede nothing.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
He said "objectively", I concede nothing.
http://i21.servimg.com/u/f21/17/73/92/12/kek10.png

So, without bias and basing it off the facts, mine is better.

Or, would you rather want him to say it with bias / prejudice?

A victory is a victory - a defeat is a defeat - a Beni is a failure. It's life.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Or, would you rather want him to say it with bias / prejudice? Yes, because in his heart, he prefers mine. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/2570579909.png

Concession accepted.

http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/2788772255.gif

I perceive Darth Nihilus as an anomaly. His connection to the Force wasn't comparable to that of Revan at any point in history and/or he didn't understood the Force in ways Revan did. However, his Wound condition transformed him into a monstrous feeding machine and his capabilities in this regard were equaled by Valkorion only.

Also Obi-Wan and Kyp are more powerful than Sidious.

Back on the Rebel base on Coruscant, Luke Skywalker tested Kyp's Jedi power potential. What he discovered was the strongest presence he had known since his Masters Obi-Wan and Yoda.
Source: The Essential Guide to Characters

GG.

LOL.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Also Obi-Wan and Kyp are more powerful than Sidious.

Back on the Rebel base on Coruscant, Luke Skywalker tested Kyp's Jedi power potential. What he discovered was the strongest presence he had known since his Masters Obi-Wan and Yoda.
Source: The Essential Guide to Characters

GG.
This is in the context of Jedi. Among the Jedi he knew, he felt Kyp Durron having strongest connection to the Force barring Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda.

GG.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is in the context of Jedi. Among the Jedi he knew, he felt Kyp Durron having strongest connection to the Force barring Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda. And Meetra is speaking in the contexts of normal people. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/841309534.gif

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lol Ant my "shitty theory" is substantiated by facts
Your "shitty theory" is substantiated by a character quote consumed by hyperbole and symbolism.


"multiple sources" =/= Kreia.


Can you just read the argument you are trying to make? It's the top-tier embodiment of desperation.

"Well uh Nihilus isn't a person so uh the Surik quote doesn't refer to him."

Like god damn, LMFAO.

He's still an individual being with defined intelligence, gender, motives, etc. Many sources still show him with a human body.

I haven't seen anything from Surik that suggests she doesn't believe Nihilus to be a member of the "anyone" title, that's absurd.

If anyone is going to consider Nihilus a person, it's going to be Surik, who I'm sure considered herself a person even after all her Force stripping.

@ Nephthys:

Then, if you consider the fact she regarded it as "impossible" (which is just an expression, damn) as some roadblock - it's retconned.



That being said, it doesn't matter if Revan's known feats were better because Surik still considered him the more powerful of the two - which has weight given she met them both.

And in terms of "presence", you're wrong, tbh. Nihilus was able to sense Surik across the galaxy despite being a wound in the Force.

Absolutely nothing suggests Surik can't do the same to him.

There's also the fact Nihilus is said to be a being of "pure dark side energy" and, like I said, his mask left remnants of his power that was also dark side energy.

Malak >>> Bane. Accept it.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Your "shitty theory" is substantiated by a character quote consumed by hyperbole and symbolism.Lol I'm talking about the fact that incoporeal beings don't have a connection to the living Force, of which you can find plenty of proof in my blog. *slow clap*

Multiple sources describe Nihilus as a force of nature, a Force anomaly, and dependent on his Force wound for strength. I'm sure you can find some.

Though at present you've failed to debunk the implications of my first source. You've also failed to prove Nihilus wields the Force in a conventional manner.Wow you really missed the point there. Yes Nihilus is an individual just as much as he is a Force wielder, the point is he is unconventional in both respects. So if Meetra is only referring to "normal" Force users, he's exempt from comparison.

Actually, I don't think I even have to. Even following your ebola-tier logic, nothing says she's "only referring to normal Force users."

It's literally just completely you, your ignorance, your failures, your family, and your denial that is saying she isn't. No actual evidence.

And given her main thing is fighting these "ultra power monsters of the dark side" and is familiar with the sides of the Force unknown to most others...



Just for fun though:


Hyperbole, hyperbole, and Kreia (to my knowledge).


Nothing needs to be debunked. Kreia's comments are irrelevant if they contradict Marr's and sourcebooks that define Nihilus as a being with immense power.


That's not really my job given you made the claim here:

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lol Ant my "shitty theory" is substantiated by facts, if you're going to dispute it present some counter-evidence or accept its validity.

Anyway the point eludes you, so I'll be clear.

Based off the quote you've raised we can conclude that Meetra refers to "anyone" with a "command of the Force."

Considering however that the manner in which Nihilus wields the Force is confirmed to be unconventional by multiple sources, and that Nihilus doesn't even conform to the criteria of a person. We can't assume Meetra places Nihilus under the above umbrella.

And you've in so far failed to prove she does.

P.S. For the record you're (or rather I am) correct, Kreia's statement isn't to be taken literally, but the obvious implication is Nihilus wields the Force unconventionally. Nice try tho.

Your evidence was some hyperbole Kreia quotes and brief, bullshit descriptions of other hyperbole quotes.

Then we go to the ultimate thing: Who are you trying to persuade here? Like, with the exception of people that have already outright denied the quote out of bias (i.e. Nephthys), no one is really going to read your bullshit theories and go: "Yeah man, that guy is on to something. He's right, Surik wasn't including Nihilus in the quote because he's not a defined person with defined power (well, he is, but whatever who cares it's not conventional and obviously someone like Meetra Surik who is the definition of unconventional only cares about conventional beings), uh, well yeah he's right. And Nihilus has no power it's all based on the environment and his wound." This isn't SWTOR Forums, lmfao.

If you made a Nihilus vs Malak thread, I'm pretty sure no one would seriously say Malak wins bro. Beni doesn't need to convince anyone of what they already know.

NewGuy puts Malak > Nihilus, IIRC. So does Skillz, tbh. Sinious also looks like he's joining the movement. All of them have leagues more credibility than you.

They're just messing with you, no one actually thinks that.

Perhaps one of the three don't, but I guarantee you at least one does. You're in denial.

Sasukedc definitely puts Darth Revan > Nihilus, so he probably puts Malak > Nihilus as well.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Actually, I don't think I even have to. Even following your ebola-tier logic, nothing says she's "only referring to normal Force users." How about the fact that Revan has zero Nihilus tier feats. Kreia's claim that Revan was "like staring into the heart of the Force" is hyperbole, but that doesn't change the fact it implies he is powerful. Likewise the majority of descriptions of Darth Nihilus imply he is not a normal Force wielder. Branding it as hyperbole is a moot point.The fact that Nihilus wields immense power doesn't mean he wields in in the same manner as Revan, or any other Force user. So it contradicts nothing.I made a claim backed up with proof that you've failed to counter.See above, I'm beginning to believe this is your only counter.You asked for rebuttals bro, don't whine when you get them. True, people are far more entrenched in their opinions and obsessed with fellating their favourite characters over here.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Perhaps one of the three don't, but I guarantee you at least one does. You're in denial.

Sasukedc definitely puts Darth Revan > Nihilus, so he probably puts Malak > Nihilus as well. Make the thread. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/841309534.gif

He did.

@DarthAnt66

Why don't you consult relevant authors and settle this matter?

Shut up Legend.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
@DarthAnt66

Why don't you consult relevant authors and settle this matter?
Brilliant idea.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Brilliant idea.
You may consult following:

1. Chris Avellone
2. Drew Karpyshyn
3. One of the leading SWTOR writers for BioWare

Do actually.

At the very least, this process will crush the ridiculous Nihilus > Sidious/Yoda/Vitiate/Luke statements. Revan himself is a beast and perhaps Nihilus with drain can be deadlier than the earlier incarnations of Revan but I don't think there is anything wrong with SoR Revan being above Nihilus.

Nihilus destroyed planets.

Imagine how powerful Revan must be then.

I'm imagining someone less powerful than Nihilus.

Luckily, arguments supported by evidence > imagination.

Funny, considering the "evidence" is just Meetra's imagination. Meanwhile there's evidence of Nihilus being far greater than Revan in terms of their actual feats.

Well top sith/jedi actually have better feats than the Ones in many areas. Doesn't necessarily mean they are above them.

The evidence of The Ones' superiority is more than just imagination, though.

Lol @ comparing Revan to the One's. The One's supremacy isn't questionable.

Character statements can be unreliable. You shouldn't believe them over hard facts.

The ****ing universe couldn't contain the irony of Neph saying that, tbh.

There is no reason to think Meetra's opinion is based on imagination.

- She herself had a similar connection to the Force as a wound.
- She faced Nihilus.
- She learned from the people who knows Nihilus more than anyone else: Kreia and Visas.
- She knew Revan well enough to easily have a very clear opinion on him.
- She doesn't have a motive to lie or be delusional on this matter.

In other words, your skepticism on Meetra's opinion is unnecessary.

Meetra worships Revan. She has reason to be delusional. She ****s up at the end due to it, remember. It's also very questionable if she knew of Revan's true capabilities or fought with him. And its doubtful she's including Nihilus in her assessment.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure her immense admiration for him is related to his command of the force.

That is your speculation and perhaps she didn't include Nihilus in her assessment, like you said. But its not a certainty and enough reason to completely disregard what the OP presents here.

Can we all take a moment and truly realize how ****ing desperate / insane Nephthys is coming on this issue.

Like shit soon you will see him shooting up schools or some shit, KEK

http://laslow.net/reactiongifs/Batch01/confused.gif

Uh, ok?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
1.) Revan, as of the Battle of Malachor V since that was the last time Meetra Surik has ever seen Revan, was more powerful than anyone else she had ever met, meaning he is more powerful than Darth Nihilus:

"It was easy to understand how Scourge could be drawn to him; Revan's command of the Force was greater then that of anyone else she had ever met."

2.) Meetra Surik was in complete and utter awe over Darth Nihilus' destructive capabilities:

"To kill on such a scale... it's impossible. I don't understand - it would have taken several Republic cruisers to destroy the surface of Katarr."

3.) Meetra Surik found Darth Nihilus to be "far more powerful" than she had originally believed above when she confronted him:

"He speaks, his voice roaring, and the player should realize that Nihilus is far more powerful than they had believed."

4.) Revan had become "far more powerful" than the last time Meetra Surik had seen him:

"Revan had grown since then. He was far more powerful now."

5.) I found examples in Star Wars literature where Drew Karpshyn uses "command of the Force" to describe one's connection to the Force / raw power:

"Without proper training, even his enormous command of the Force was unable to anticipate the unfamiliar sequences of the two-handed fighting style."

"The lightsaber was an extension of the user and his or her command of the Force."

"But his command of the dark side was too powerful for it to hold him for more than a split second."

6.) In particular, this passage makes an explicit link between power and command of the Force:

"Was it possible there was some other essential element in the process that he was missing? Was there one more secret waiting to be unlocked that would finally allow him to create a Holocron so he could pass his wisdom and knowledge on to his successors? Or was the failure in him? Did he simply lack power? Was his command of the dark side somehow less than that of the ancient Sith Lords like Freedon Nadd?"

7.) Also in other works, we see "command of the Force" as a synonym for one's potential / raw power:

"Sometimes he felt there was so little he need to teach his Padawan. Even to Obi-Wan, who knew him so well, Anakin's command of the Force could be astonishing."

"His sensitivity was far from perfectly attuned and he sincerely doubted he would ever attain half the command of the Force that Kenobi had possessed? though the old man had expressed great confidence in Luke's potential. "

8.) Darth Malak was believed to may have eventually surpassed Darth Revan, meaning he also surpassed Darth Nihilus:

"When Revan fell we had hoped the Sith threat was ended. But Malak quickly assumed Revan's role, and has embraced the dark side power as fully as his old master ever did. Now Malak leads the Sith armada against the Republic. Hate and vengeance for his master's death draw Malak ever further down the path of the dark side, fueling his powers until they surpass those of his old master."

http://media.giphy.com/media/3BSk6i59RURDa/giphy.gif

Malak never surpassed REVAN DO you hear me??? he die Jealous of him forever, he always had an inferiority complexe about Revan...

Meetra surik is a wound in the force.... Nihilus a cipher that drink life energy and sould an convert them in pure ennergy he anihilate them !! and progressivly loose is power, and become more hungry and dangerous (more he is hungry more powerfull is his drain !!)
Meetra gain xp for each kill she does in the game, the game justify the mecanic by saying that at each kill she draw the strengh of her victim... (Jedi council scene) So to determine her power, humhum.. And before we know nothing we just know the light wall feat, wich indicate great level of mastery.. Not Raw power


Revan is an ocean of ranw power, there is a an endless tream flowing through his body.. It is never really explain clearly, but IT IS FREAKIN OBVIOUS !!!!! So of course he is more powerfull than Nihilus, he have more raw power more knwoledge more mastery... And his raw power state is stable...

that post made my day XD

Hate and vengeance for his master's death draw Malak ever further down the path of the dark side

Malak propaganda...

It confirm my theory that Malak said Darth Revan is dead, his ship had been aborded avenge our emperor ! When teh Jedi strike team show up !!
perfectly knowing that Revan was still alive !

Originally posted by Emperordmb
that post made my day XD
Thank XD

You're awesome, Zam.

Zamp's awesome, but Ant's relentless.

Will respond prolly tomorrow given the wealth of homework I have tonight is suicide-worthy though.

You're more-or-less just regurgitating what Beni said though with fancy words to make it look like a half-decent argument - which it isn't.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
that post made my dayI look forward to Ant's response. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/841309534.gif

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

You're more-or-less just regurgitating what Beni said though with fancy words to make it look like a half-decent argument - which it isn't.

(no offense to 'Beni' but i didnt actually read the whole thread. i usually skim Neph's posts and then figure out how angry to be about the amount idiocy that they have to try to counter all alone.)

also the amount of time/patience i have for debates is way less than when i was in undergrad haha


edit: "fancy words"???

I'm sorry to be such a source of anger for you then, haha.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm sorry to be such a source of anger for you then, haha.
Your "haha" is faker than Zamp's argument.

And that's saying a lot given he said a lot of things that are outright lies.

http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/841309534.gif

I hate when people say haha

I hate when people ***** about your credibility, then say
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
outright lies.

http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/841309534.gif

I'll have some fun with this one taking down Temp's old pal, NGL.

That's the point. It's meant to be glib and transparently fake to highlight how much bullshit I have to deal with. That's the joke. You got it.

Good jorb.

The only "bullshit" I see here is you, Beni, and Zamp in complete and utter denial over Malak's superiority over Nihilus.

Zamp's post only reinforced the desperation, tbh.

I sense much anger in you.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The ****ing universe couldn't contain the irony of Neph saying that, tbh.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm sorry to be such a source of anger for you then, haha.

read again: im usually angry on ur behalf. so like i read your posts and the ones you quote. you are usually schooling like three or four people at once. it's that kind of debate that kept me from ever dogpiling on LS (and only rarely on Nai).

debates should only have two people at a time.



("outright lies?"

One of many.

RIP credibility, eh?

Yeah, I was trying to "apologise" because you must be angry on my behalf a lot given what I deal with.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, I was trying to "apologise" because you must be angry on my behalf a lot given what I deal with.
inb4 Zamp puts Bane on Palpatine level

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, I was trying to "apologise" because you must be angry on my behalf a lot given what I deal with.

im already regretting posting this. i mean, i even loaded steam to get those screenshots adn this is the thanks i get. a 17 year old who it would be literally illegal for me to bang, telling me about the plot of KotOR lmao

> Ant

> 17

> lolwut

So, if you know the plot, why say Malak was scared to face Revan when that's bluntly untrue? Not only did he face him, but he nearly won.

mmm

Looks like top-tier BS and desperation if you ask me.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
> Ant

> 17

> lolwut
lmfao

Also lmfao @ his suggestion I don't know more about KotOR 1 than him.

Ant's only 14 iirc.

I am so, so sorry.

LOL @ Ant being 17. He is either 15 or 35 so you're embarrassing yourself by either losing to a 15 years old or by belittling someone for their age who in fact is much older than you.

Originally posted by Sinious
He is either 15 or 35 LMFAO

Originally posted by Nephthys
I am so, so sorry.
You should have gave him some lube before the debate, tbh.

Don't you have a Papa Bear you should be ****ing right now tbh?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You should have gave him some lube before the debate, tbh.

You're not remotely on Zam's level, kid (or old man?). The bravado does nothing to disguise the fact that he utterly eclipses you in intelligence and eloquence.

Also I wouldn't blame him for not bothering to respond to you. I shouldn't have.

Neph's just happy someone out of the dozens of users here believe his BS.

*claps*

Neph, don't make this personal. Embrace the wank that this thread provides and focus on the big picture.

Neph is uber proud, @Sinious. Hero > Vitiate till the end!

Nah, he would never put a TOR character above Vitiate and he knows I'm his biggest supporter in the HoT wank.

I don't give a shit if it'll help the "TOR cause" in the big picture and I have contempt for you if that's the reason you're supporting this.

/watch?v=lf_wVfwpfp8

Better stop, Sinious, before Neph doesn't like you anymore.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Better stop, Sinious, before Neph doesn't like you anymore.
NGL, I ROLFed at this.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Neph is uber proud, @Sinious. Hero > Vitiate till the end!

The seeds of change have been planted the revolution has taken its course Hero ~ Kenobi etc

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't give a shit if it'll help the "TOR cause" in the big picture and I have contempt for you if that's the reason you're supporting this. I had a debate with Skillz recently where his Nihilus wank was getting out of control so this thread is necessary evil.

Evidence;

Ant talks regularly about being "buried in homework"
Ant talks about AP courses
Ant frequently uses Interweb lingo term "kek" which is an abbreviation for "i am literally a child"
Ant's mother confides regularly in me about his struggles with Sherlene, his high school bully.


@Ant, u seem mad. Why dont i buy u a chocolate milk and we can talk about how you feel?

This Revan and Malak wank is worse than anything Skillz could have said.

Guiz I was saying Nihilus > Vitiate which based on feats is tru tbh yet somehow Meetra won despite Nihilus being more powerful than meetra thought from the accounts of Traya and Visas so idk

LMFAO. Zamp taking mad shots then asking if I'm the one who's mad.

Before you run away and don't return due to whatever the hell you do, please enlighten us how Malak never fought Revan as a Sith despite multiple sources claiming otherwise.

And **** yeah, I'll have some chocolate milk, kek. Thirsty up in this crib.

Originally posted by Nephthys
This Revan and Malak wank is worse than anything Skillz could have said.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Nihilus > Vitiate See?

Perfectly reasonable.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Better stop, Sinious, before Neph doesn't like you anymore. It hurts when he is so careless. I might have to switch to creeping him out instead of Temp tbh.

Neph understood what I said.

I think

Originally posted by Nephthys
This Revan and Malak wank is worse than anything Skillz could have said.

do u remember when Kotor3 / DS would say that Kreia is stronger than Dooku because of having access to the Malachor library?

those were the days


Originally posted by DarthAnt66

LMFAO. Zamp taking mad shots then asking if I'm the one who's mad.

Before you run away and don't return due to whatever the hell you do, please enlighten us how Malak never fought Revan as a Sith despite multiple sources claiming otherwise.

And **** yeah, I'll have some chocolate milk, kek. Thirsty up in this crib.

Well, tbh there was the time where Malak tried to fite revan and then lost his entire lower jaw... was that what you were talking about?

anyway, champ, i think we should be friends. sometime i'll post up a single homework problem and you can post a single homework problem and it'll be like breakfast club!

Yeah, the one where he pushed R. into desperation but ultimately lost.

Concession accepted.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

Yeah, the one where he pushed R. into desperation but ultimately lost.

Concession accepted.

because
1. that's not in KotOR so u dont get to claim that as "knows more about KotOR"
2. losing the ability to speak (or suck dick) seems like a pretty major defeat. If that's the best evidence you have of Malak's superiority then I'm not sure why you think this is a debate? At this point it's more like ur throwing a tantrum...

Originally posted by DarthAnt66

Yeah, the one where he pushed R. into desperation but ultimately lost.

Concession accepted.

A fight being described as "desperate" doesn't mean that the combatants were desperate. Maybe you should go read the definition for desperate or look up the synonyms b4 u talk shit.

Not really a claim. Universal knowledge.



"Malak's most distinguishing feature, his steel jaw, disguises a vicious lightsaber wound inflicted by his former Master in their desperate final battle." ―Star Wars Insider 88: Virtual Sith

Yet Malak got more powerful.

Originally posted by Nephthys
A fight being described as "desperate" doesn't mean that the combatants were desperate. Maybe you should go read the definition for desperate or look up the synonyms b4 u talk shit.
I'm 99% sure Selenial already raped you on this. Or was that someone else? mmm

Do you need to phone a friend?

*looks up definition of desperation like Neph siad*

: very sad and upset because of having little or no hope : feeling or showing despair

: very bad or difficult to deal with

: done with all of your strength or energy and with little hope of succeeding

Thanks for... proving my point?

"done with all of your strength or energy and with little hope of succeeding"

"Malak's most distinguishing feature, his steel jaw, disguises a vicious lightsaber wound inflicted by his former Master in their final battle done with all his strength/energy but with little hope of succeeding]" ―Star Wars Insider 88: Virtual Sith

it's like u dont even read these posts. take a breather and see what you can come up with after a break. no pressure champ! Im sure you'll do great : )

1.
reckless or dangerous because of despair, hopelessness, or urgency:
a desperate killer.
2.
having an urgent need, desire, etc.: desperate for attention;
desperate to find a job.
3.
leaving little or no hope; very serious or dangerous:
a desperate illness.
4.
extremely bad; intolerable or shocking:
clothes in desperate taste.
5.
extreme or excessive.
6.
making a final, ultimate effort; giving all:
a desperate attempt to save a life.

Extremely intense: felt a desperate urge to tell the truth.

desperate adjective (SERIOUS)
C2 very ​serious or ​bad:
desperate ​poverty a desperate ​shortage of ​food/​supplies The ​situation is desperate - we have no ​food, very little ​water and no ​medical ​supplies.›

very ​great or ​extreme: The ​earthquake ​survivors are in desperate need of ​help. He has a desperate ​desire to ​succeed.informal I'm in a desperate ​hurry.
DarthAnt66

Synonyms for desperate
adj reckless, outrageous

bold
dangerous
daring
determined
frantic
frenzied

furious
violent
madcap
precipitate
rash
wild

atrocious
audacious
careless
death-defying
devil-may-care
foolhardy

hasty
hazardous
headlong
headstrong
heinous
impetuous

incautious
monstrous
risky
scandalous
shocking
venturesome

@ Zamp:

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/le-miiverse-resource/images/1/12/Wow.gif

Wait! What's that?

"Malak's most distinguishing feature, his steel jaw, disguises a vicious lightsaber wound inflicted by his former Master in their desperate final battle."

Wait! Do you see it?

"their"

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/le-miiverse-resource/images/1/12/Wow.gif

"their"

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/le-miiverse-resource/images/1/12/Wow.gif

See it now!?

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/le-miiverse-resource/images/1/12/Wow.gif

Guess what it doesn't say?

"his"

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/le-miiverse-resource/images/1/12/Wow.gif

And "their" means more than one person.

Revan = one person.
Malak = one person.

Together, they are more than "one person."

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/le-miiverse-resource/images/1/12/Wow.gif

Despite the sentence being about Malak, it specifically referenced both him and Malak in regards to "desperation" - not just Malak. The sentence still would have worked with "his."

"Malak's most distinguishing feature, his steel jaw, disguises a vicious lightsaber wound inflicted by his former Master in his desperate final battle."

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/le-miiverse-resource/images/1/12/Wow.gif

You really need to read more. Desperate when used as a descriptor just means intense. If someone's feeling desperate hunger it just means they're very hungry, not that they're experiencing desperation.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You really need to read more. Desperate when used as a descriptor just means intense. If someone's feeling desperate hunger it just means they're very hungry, not that they're experiencing desperation.

1. Having lost all hope; despairing.
2. Marked by, arising from, or showing despair: the desperate look of hunger; a desperate cry for help.
3. Reckless or violent because of despair: a desperate criminal.
4. Undertaken out of extreme urgency or as a last resort: a desperate attempt to save the family business.
5. Nearly hopeless; critical: a desperate illness; a desperate situation.
6. Suffering or driven by great need or distress: desperate for recognition.
7. Extremely intense: felt a desperate urge to tell the truth.

Using definition 7 as the one and only definition for a word is pretty low even for you, tbh.

The same page you quoted uses "desperate " as actually expressing desperation.

I included like 10 definitions, fool.

For the record, it looks like (I didn't read the story but reading the paragraph it it's said in it looks pretty obvious to me) Frank Leslie's Popular Monthly, Volume 34 uses the term "their desperate battle" as an expression of desperation on both parties.

So there's your example of it being used in that way (besides the shit you quoted doing the same).

so the battle between them had lost all hope and despaired? nah

the battle arose from despair? nah

the battle was reckless or violent because of despair? nah

the battle was undertaken out of extreme urgency or as a last resort? nah

the battle was nearly hopeless? for both parties? we'll circle around to this

the battle was suffering or driven by great need or distress? nah

the battle was extremely intense? let's see:


Anakin and Kenobi have a desperate duel on Mustafar, but you wouldn't say that the duel was nearly hopeless. Zannah desperately tries to deflect all of Bane's blows when he goes into berserker mode, but you wouldn't say that her effort is hopeless. Desperate as an adjective meaning "hopeless" is often used to describe a character's motivation. Desperate as an adjective applied to an action usually refers to something that is intense. Maul and Savage fight a desperate duel with Sidious in TCW but you wouldn't say that they almost matched Sidious.

I really think you're reaching here

Addendum: And anyway, when the result of a battle has one party walk away and another party missing their face, I'm inclined to say that the previous bit doesn't matter so much

Malak never dueled Revan and won

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
For the record, it looks like (I didn't read the story but reading the paragraph it it's said in it looks pretty obvious to me) Frank Leslie's Popular Monthly, Volume 34 uses the term "their desperate battle" as an expression of desperation on both parties.

So there's your example of it being used in that way (besides the shit you quoted doing the same).
http://i21.servimg.com/u/f21/17/73/92/12/crib10.png

And this one fits it perfectly, LMFAO ^