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Wondering what arguments can be made for the Herald's. Everyone's in character.

Pre-Flashpoint

1) standard Gauntlet-- how far does he go

2)Superman is restored to full power after each opponent he defeats.


-----------

1) Nova

2) Destroyer

3) Air-Walker

4) Firelord

5) Terrax

6) Stardust

7) Morg

8) Silver Surfer

splits with or gets slight edge on norrin. also can a more knowledgeable supes fan confirm the feat of superman powering a machine that warped reality across 52 universes?

also superman can punch with the force to shatter 700 plus earths. just throwing that out there.

Clears.

Originally posted by ghostman
splits with or gets slight edge on norrin. also can a more knowledgeable supes fan confirm the feat of superman powering a machine that warped reality across 52 universes?
Confirmed. Final Crisis #7

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/KMCPhilosophia/lightmiraclemachine1.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/KMCPhilosophia/lightmiraclemachine2.jpg

Stops dead at the Asgardian Destroyer...regardless of its host.

Originally posted by ghostman
also superman can punch with the force to shatter 700 plus earths. just throwing that out there.


Any proof?

Originally posted by Stoic
Any proof?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/74503/1429269-justice_league_of_america_030_pg_17.jpg


1) Now first of all, I'd like to clear up some shit on this page specifically in regards to where the Moon's mass is stated on-panel:

"The Shadow's mass will be the same as the real Moon."

"81 Billion tons."

Now, that second line of dialogue, as stated by Batman, is false - the Mass of the Moon is not 81 Billion tons but is instead, in fact, much closer to 81 Billion Billion tons at 81 Quintillion tons, or at 73 Sextillion kilograms. I've also heard marvel **** drip try and suggest that the DC Comics variant of the Earth's Moon had possessed one billion times less mass than our real-life Moon, but this claim is also false. The writer of Justice League Vol. 2 #30, Dwayne McDuffie, had later specifically mentioned on his own website that he had tried to, and made a error in, calculating the real-life Moon's mass for this comic, as well as that he had originally intended to utilize the actual Moon's mass of 81 Quintillion tons. This is also very evident even in the dialogue itself, where it's clearly stated that the Shadow Moon's mass "will be the same as the real Moon", yet the distinction still wouldn't make much sense, if Earth's Moon in the DC Universe had possessed one billion times less mass than our real-life Moon.


2) For some "reason", some people always seem to selectively forget the basic scientific principal of "Force = Mass*Acceleration", even when it's been spoon-fed to them - it's also even funnier because that exact same comic, which had mentioned the F=MA equation on-panel, has already established that the Mass of the Shadow Moon, as well as the fact that it was heading to Earth. Still, do we know just how fast it was going?


"My ring clocks it at 7,614,000 km per hour"


...and thank you, Green Lantern! Now, we have everything that we need to figure out just how much Kinetic Energy the Shadow Moon was exerting while heading for Earth, and how much Superman had to exert to stop it! Keep in mind that Superman didn't simply "stop" the Shadow Moon either - he actually was able to not only match the Shadow Moon's forward momentum, moving at 7,614,000 km per hour or 2,115,000 m/s, but also outright shattered it into fragments and exerted far more than the necessary power to pulverize it.

KE = 1/2mv^2

KE = 1/2(73 Sextillion*2,115,000)^2

KE = 1.632727124e+35 Joules

Calculating the Kinetic Energy of the Shadow Moon has given us a result of 3.9 Quintillion Megatons of force - that's enough energy to destroy Earth 735.84x over!!!! good god... ****ing supes!!!!! heres the feat in action:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/27500/724603-justice_league_of_america__30__2009____page_17.jpg

there you go.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Stops dead at the Asgardian Destroyer...regardless of its host.

So your claim is that Superman is inferior to the Thing, who beat Herald Destroyer?

Let's see you substantiate that stance.

@ Ghostman, have you ever considered that other herald level beings are capable of doing the same or better? Some wouldn't necessarily have to ram a moon sized object head on in order to destroy it it, You realize this right? I'm not trying to low ball the feat, just trying to make you realize that they are characters out there capable of doing better because not only would they destroy the object, but they wouldn't be kayoed in the process of doing so. What's really funny is how people try to low ball the Heart of the monster feat when the Hulk and red She Hulk collide doing far more damage than what Superman did in the scans that you presented. They didn't even directly hit anything other than themselves. The feat that you presented is awesome, but nothing outside of the realms that a high herald wouldn't be able to do as well.

Originally posted by panthergod
So your claim is that Superman is inferior to the Thing, who beat Herald Destroyer?

Let's see you substantiate that stance.

Is that a serious statement!?

That is the Destroyers lowest showing...ever...and even still Thing couldn't really harm it.

Maybe I should bring up Supes lowest showing and lets compare, but I wont do that as we argue averages...not bottom lows.


There is no PIS in a forum fight, and under forum conditions, the Destroyer one shot kills Thor (which it actually did with an extremely weak host), Thing, and Supes...

Destroyer murders Supes 10/10...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Is that a serious statement!?

That is the Destroyers lowest showing...ever...and even still Thing couldn't really harm it.

Maybe I should bring up Supes lowest showing and lets compare, but I wont do that as we argue averages...not bottom lows.


There is no PIS in a forum fight, and under forum conditions, the Destroyer one shot kills Thor (which it actually did with an extremely weak host), Thing, and Supes...

Destroyer murders Supes 10/10...

Thing beat Herald Destroyer, period. The Destroyers level during his time as Herald is all that is relevant here. As Herald he was sub Thing level in combat. On average. Period. I don't care what fabrications you want to make up to pretend his proven power levels that he is in for this thread don't count because you don't want them to.

Where did Herald Destroyer fight Thor?

Why is the Destroyer in this thread at all if you aren't going to use it's average showing?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why is the Destroyer in this thread at all if you aren't going to use it's average showing?



Panthergod is clearly trolling here...

Originally posted by panthergod
Thing beat Herald Destroyer, period. The Destroyers level during his time as Herald is all that is relevant here. As Herald he was sub Thing level in combat. On average. Period. I don't care what fabrications you want to make up to pretend his proven power levels that he is in for this thread don't count because you don't want them to.

Where did Herald Destroyer fight Thor? lol

Originally posted by panthergod
Thing beat Herald Destroyer, period. The Destroyers level during his time as Herald is all that is relevant here. As Herald he was sub Thing level in combat. On average. Period. I don't care what fabrications you want to make up to pretend his proven power levels that he is in for this thread don't count because you don't want them to.

Where did Herald Destroyer fight Thor?

The only difference between Herald Destroyer and the Destroyer as its normally depicted is that Herald Destroyer was jobbed out to Thing...

Galactus didnt depower the Destroyer, nor did Galactus reduce its material strength...because of this, only one thing accurately describes the Destroyer's level of performance against Thing:

P
I
S


Those are the facts...

I forget the full details, but was anyone inhabiting the Destroyer at the time that Galactus used it? This could have been the reason for it operating at a lower level than usual. Just saying.

@panthergod...

No doubt, you want to be able to say that Supes stands above any of Galactus's Heralds, but nothing could be further from the truth...

You probably didn't know this, but Surfer isn't the 1st or most powerful Herald of Galactus...Tyrant was.

Tell me, on average, how does Supes compare to Tyrant?

Originally posted by Stoic
I forget the full details, but was anyone inhabiting the Destroyer at the time that Galactus used it? This could have been the reason for it operating at a lower level than usual. Just saying.

I dont think it matters...

Reason being, when it melted Thor into goo, a normal human was at the controls...

Thus the difference in power between the Herald Destroyer and it when it melted Thor was negligible...

Originally posted by -Pr-
Why is the Destroyer in this thread at all if you aren't going to use it's average showing?

Because this thread is about Heralds of Galactus, and this was the level shown while he was a Herald. In his case, only his status while empowered by Galactus is relevant here.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder


Panthergod is clearly trolling here...

facepalm

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I dont think it matters...

Reason being, when it melted Thor into goo, a normal human was at the controls...

Thus the difference in power between the Herald Destroyer and it when it melted Thor was negligible...
Feel free to substantiate your belief that the Thing is formidable enough to trump Thor melting power.

Or, in fact the Destroyer was less powerful. Like the comics show.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder


Panthergod is clearly trolling here...

This is a weak attempt to justify demonizing challenges to your weak argument.

You are the only one trolling in this thread. Either substantiate your claims or stop trolling my thread, thank you.

Originally posted by panthergod
Because this thread is about Heralds of Galactus, and this was the level shown while he was a Herald. In his case, only his status while empowered by Galactus is relevant here.

PIS isnt allowed in a forum fight...

Based on the fact that the Destroyer was not depowered and that that showing was far, far, below its average, the Thing fight was absolutely a PIS showing and is not allowed...

As a result, we have to use its average, and on average, the Destroyer is way beyond Superman...

Originally posted by panthergod
Feel free to substantiate your belief that the Thing is formidable enough to trump Thor melting power

??

What are you blabbering about?

I never said the Thing was formidable...Thing is a meta...several notches beneath Thor.


Thor one shot killed an amped Thing with ease...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
PIS isnt allowed in a forum fight...

Based on the fact that the Destroyer was not depowered and that that showing was far, far, below its average, the Thing fight was absolutely a PIS showing and is not allowed...

As a result, we have to use its average, and on average, the Destroyer is way beyond Superman...

Iirc, he was empowered by Galactus, not a soul. There's your in story explanation.

Further, I determine this thread's parameters, and this thread has Destroyer while a Herald, exclusively. That is what I am interested in discussing.

Any reference to non Herald era showings for Destroyer is trolling.

Stop trolling my thread and get back on topic.

Originally posted by panthergod
Iirc, he was empowered by Galactus, not a soul. There's your in story explanation.

Further, I determine this thread's parameters, and this thread has Destroyer while a Herald, exclusively. That is what I am interested in discussing.

Any reference to non Herald era showings for Destroyer is trolling.

Stop trolling my thread and get back on topic.



Even the mod questions your parameters...

He calls for averages as well; since me and Pr seem to be on the same page as pertains this, is he trolling as well?

:-)

Pr facepalms at LoM's accusations of trolling...

Originally posted by panthergod
Iirc, he was empowered by Galactus, not a soul. There's your in story explanation.

Which is indisputable evidence that the Destroyer was jobbed out to Thing...

Being empowered by a normal human, it could melt Thor into goo, but cant beat Thing while being empowered by Galactus!????

Spell it with me slowly:

P
I
S

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Pr facepalms at LoM's accusations of trolling...

But in this instance, he knows I'm right...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Which is indisputable evidence that the Destroyer was jobbed out to Thing...

Being empowered by a normal human, it could melt Thor into goo, but cant beat Thing while being empowered by Galactus!????

Spell it with me slowly:

P
I
S

It wasn't PIS. The Destroyer was operating at a significantly lower level due to not having an actual soul inhabiting it. The idea that Galactus could do this with his power alone was awesome, because it goes outside of the parameters of how the Destroyer was intended to be used in terms of animating it. The Thing basically defeated a puppet.

Next person to speak for me or accuse anyone out of trolling in anything other than a report, gets a warning.

Originally posted by panthergod
Because this thread is about Heralds of Galactus, and this was the level shown while he was a Herald. In his case, only his status while empowered by Galactus is relevant here.

How many appearances does this version have?

Originally posted by Stoic
It wasn't PIS. The Destroyer was operating at a significantly lower level due to not having an actual soul inhabiting it. The idea that Galactus could do this with his power alone was awesome, because it goes outside of the parameters of how the Destroyer was intended to be used in terms of animating it. The Thing basically defeated a puppet.

Reread Thor 300....

Its base level of power was tremendous...

So unless Galactus depowered the Destroyer, it jobbed to Thing...

^ Not many appearances, I think it was about 3, but I could be wrong. The Destroyer was significantly weaker, not in durability, but in function. I think that the Rhino could have given it a decent fight TBH. Not at all what I thought when I first saw that Galactus had possession of the unit. It was one of those WTF moments when you realized that it wasn't as formidable you assumed it to be under the power of Galactus.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Reread Thor 300....

Its base level of power was tremendous...

So unless Galactus depowered the Destroyer, it jobbed to Thing...

Thor 300? You mean when the Asgardians filled it with their souls?

No...

The Flame tells Thor the Destroyers origin story; how the Destroyer possesses a fraction of the power of every single Skyfather on Earth...

In otherwords, all the Skyfathers gave up a fraction of their power to make the Destroyer as powerful as possible...


Edit: but yeah, Asgard combined do enter the Destroyer during Thor 300; I'm making it clear to you all how powerful baseline Destroyer is and it losing to Thing was PIS...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
No...

The Flame tells Thor the Destroyers origin story; how the Destroyer possesses a fraction of the power of every single Skyfather on Earth...

In otherwords, all the Skyfathers gave up a fraction of their power to make the Destroyer as powerful as possible...


Edit: but yeah, Asgard combined do enter the Destroyer during Thor 300; I'm making it clear to you all how powerful baseline Destroyer is and it losing to Thing was PIS...

They gave a portion of their power to make it as powerful as it is, but it still requires an actual soul to make it function optimally. The evidence shows that without an actual soul to animate it, that it operates at significantly lower levels. Galactus didn't actually place a soul inside of the unit, but instead he placed a sliver of his power inside of it. No one knows how much power Galactus placed in the unit, but apparently less than the power that a soul. Let's not rewrite the book, let's instead go on the assumption that it functioned like a very durable remote control puppet.

Yeah, surely if OP has made it abundantly clear that its Destroyer Herald, then Superman could well clear. Surfer could stop him, though.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, surely if OP has made it abundantly clear that its Destroyer Herald, then Superman could well clear. Surfer could stop him, though.

Stardust could as well.

He is right though. If the OP takes a certain version of a being only those levels, high or low doesn't matter, have to be the only one we use. Byrne Superman, owaw Superman, WBH, WWH, Grey Hulk etc.

Clears. He's more powerful than all of them.

Originally posted by ghostman
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/74503/1429269-justice_league_of_america_030_pg_17.jpg


1) Now first of all, I'd like to clear up some shit on this page specifically in regards to where the Moon's mass is stated on-panel:

"The Shadow's mass will be the same as the real Moon."

"81 Billion tons."

Now, that second line of dialogue, as stated by Batman, is false - the Mass of the Moon is not 81 Billion tons but is instead, in fact, much closer to 81 Billion Billion tons at 81 Quintillion tons, or at 73 Sextillion kilograms. I've also heard marvel **** drip try and suggest that the DC Comics variant of the Earth's Moon had possessed one billion times less mass than our real-life Moon, but this claim is also false. The writer of Justice League Vol. 2 #30, Dwayne McDuffie, had later specifically mentioned on his own website that he had tried to, and made a error in, calculating the real-life Moon's mass for this comic, as well as that he had originally intended to utilize the actual Moon's mass of 81 Quintillion tons. This is also very evident even in the dialogue itself, where it's clearly stated that the Shadow Moon's mass "will be the same as the real Moon", yet the distinction still wouldn't make much sense, if Earth's Moon in the DC Universe had possessed one billion times less mass than our real-life Moon.


2) For some "reason", some people always seem to selectively forget the basic scientific principal of "Force = Mass*Acceleration", even when it's been spoon-fed to them - it's also even funnier because that exact same comic, which had mentioned the F=MA equation on-panel, has already established that the Mass of the Shadow Moon, as well as the fact that it was heading to Earth. Still, do we know just how fast it was going?


"My ring clocks it at 7,614,000 km per hour"


...and thank you, Green Lantern! Now, we have everything that we need to figure out just how much Kinetic Energy the Shadow Moon was exerting while heading for Earth, and how much Superman had to exert to stop it! Keep in mind that Superman didn't simply "stop" the Shadow Moon either - he actually was able to not only match the Shadow Moon's forward momentum, moving at 7,614,000 km per hour or 2,115,000 m/s, but also outright shattered it into fragments and exerted far more than the necessary power to pulverize it.

KE = 1/2mv^2

KE = 1/2(73 Sextillion*2,115,000)^2

KE = 1.632727124e+35 Joules

Calculating the Kinetic Energy of the Shadow Moon has given us a result of 3.9 Quintillion Megatons of force - that's enough energy to destroy Earth 735.84x over!!!! good god... ****ing supes!!!!! heres the feat in action:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/27500/724603-justice_league_of_america__30__2009____page_17.jpg

there you go.


The most powerful Herald, silver surfer actually died destroying a stationary moon while he was amped to the point he almost exploded with too much energy.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Well surfer was capable of destroying a moon physically while amped to the point he nearly exploded.

http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15980209_surferlol.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15980216_surferlol1.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15980223_surferlol2.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15980230_surferlol3.jpg http://s3d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15980232_surferlol4.jpg

Oh, he also died. So that obviously makes him number 1.

mmm

Surfer is not the most powerful Herald of Galactus...

Tyrant is...

Tyrant isn't a Herald.

He could clear or gets stopped by Surfer. I would say he gets stopped by Surfer.

1. Stops at Surfer

2. Clears

Kind of strange that the Surfer survived the destruction of an entire planet while in a normal state, but dies while over charged from impacting a moon. Let's get out the low showings to prove a point shall we? Or, could it have been that the charged up Surfer was unstable due to being filled with too much energy?

Morg tears Superman's head off and bludgeon's him to death with it...

Superman does not clear this gauntlet...

Originally posted by Stoic
Kind of strange that the Surfer survived the destruction of an entire planet while in a normal state, but dies while over charged from impacting a moon. Let's get out the low showings to prove a point shall we? Or, could it have been that the charged up Surfer was unstable due to being filled with too much energy?

Both of these characters have far worse than moon busting showings. Both.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Morg tears Superman's head off and bludgeon's him to death with it...

Superman does not clear this gauntlet... Supes beats him easily. Speed and strength edge.

Originally posted by h1a8
Supes beats him easily. Speed and strength edge.



Morg had Thanos in trouble and you think Clark beats him?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder


Morg had Thanos in trouble and you think Clark beats him?
Yes. Terrax stalemated him twice after all.

Guys, stay on topic.

Originally posted by carver9
Both of these characters have far worse than moon busting showings. Both.

I mostly prefer it when Superman is written reasonably instead of the comic book arms race one ups. I like it more when he's weakened. Thinking about it, the last time I really enjoyed a story arc was way back when Superman fought Draaga on War World. On topic though, Superman would have a very tough time with Stardust, and the Surfer. The rest have jobbed, or were written too inconsistently to count on.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder


Morg had Thanos in trouble and you think Clark beats him? I believe Superman beats Thanos. But you can't use that ABC logic since Thanos was beaten up by Namor, Thing, squirrel girl, groot, etc. Even starfox was giving it to him.

Finally, What did Morg actually do to Thanos? Could any Herald replicate that same exact action?

Originally posted by h1a8
I believe Superman beats Thanos. But you can't use that ABC logic since Thanos was beaten up by Namor, Thing, squirrel girl, groot, etc. Even starfox was giving it to him.

Finally, What did Morg actually do to Thanos? Could any Herald replicate that same exact action?

Morg powered through a Thanos force blast with nothing but sheer toughness and durablity and tackled him; he then proceeded to get the upper hand on Thanos and had him dead to rights with his axe...

Thanos was forced to get and use Terrax's axe to save himself..

I firmly believe accompishing that solo against Thanos is well beyond most of the Herald Tier...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Morg powered through a Thanos force blast with nothing but sheer toughness and durablity and tackled him; he then proceeded to get the upper hand on Thanos and had him dead to rights with his axe...

Thanos was forced to get and use Terrax's axe to save himself..

I firmly believe accompishing that solo against Thanos is well beyond most of the Herald Tier... That's feat just proves Morg can take pain and suffering. He was damaged greatly doing such a thing . Thanos KOed him in the next blast. So basically it was a two shot.

Anyway, energy blast durability isn't the same as blunt force durability.
And also Surfer got Morg too.

I see Supes using speed and easily KOing Morg with punches.

Surfer gives Supes the biggest challenge here.

Originally posted by h1a8
That's feat just proves Morg can take pain and suffering. He was damaged greatly doing such a thing . Thanos KOed him in the next blast. So basically it was a two shot.

Anyway, energy blast durability isn't the same as blunt force durability.
And also Surfer got Morg too.

I see Supes using speed and easily KOing Morg with punches.

Surfer gives Supes the biggest challenge here.

Thanos koed a distracted Morg. Different than koing someone who's attention is all on you.

Stops at 6 in both scenarios. He may make it to 7 somehow in scenario 2.

Originally posted by Dampyre
Stops at 6 in both scenarios. He may make it to 7 somehow in scenario 2.

How does Stardust put Superman down?

Originally posted by panthergod
How does Stardust put Superman down?

How does Superman put Stardust down in his energy form?

Originally posted by h1a8
I believe Superman beats Thanos. But you can't use that ABC logic since Thanos was beaten up by Namor, Thing, squirrel girl, groot, etc. Even starfox was giving it to him.

Finally, What did Morg actually do to Thanos? Could any Herald replicate that same exact action?




Wait... Namor and Thing have both beaten up Thanos? Are you ****ing kidding me? When did that shit happen?

Originally posted by Dampyre
How does Superman put Stardust down in his energy form?

By blasting him with Heat Vision that can seal holes in the fabric of reality while less powerful than he is here--far beyond Storm's solar storm lightning--, disrupting his energy form with counter vibrations that can effect extradimensional God consciousness, and containing him in an electromagnetic Forcefield generated by super-Friction that can contain temporal breaches-- and yes, he's used this power offensively.

Any more questions?

Stops at stardust,stops at destroyer if it isn't the jobbing version

He gets by Terrax and dies horribly to Stardust and it gets worse from there.

All of them can pull some wins, it's just up to you to decide who gets the majority.

Originally posted by Dampyre
How does Superman put Stardust down in his energy form?
Punching it really hard. Just like Bill did in Godhunter.

Originally posted by carver9
All of them can pull some wins, it's just up to you to decide who gets the majority.
No, they can't. Only surfer can pull some wins.

Originally posted by Star428
Wait... Namor and Thing have both beaten up Thanos? Are you ****ing kidding me? When did that shit happen?

Namor and Thing never did any such thing. It seems like in order for a character to be a challenge for Superman, they have to no sell everything thrown at them while Superman doesn't do the same. Namor broke his hand on Thanos' face, and the Thing was grabbed and swung around by Thanos at super speeds. Squirrel Girl was off panel, so no one really knows the full extent as to how she won that battle. She still has yet to do anything impressive on panel.

Originally posted by Star428
Wait... Namor and Thing have both beaten up Thanos? Are you ****ing kidding me? When did that shit happen?
Nothing h1 said is even remotely true. Namor shattered all the bones in his fist punching Thanos and it only gave Thanos a bloody lip. Namor then proceeded to get stomped in a few panels by Thanos, who intentionally let him live so that Namor could watch the Cabal slaughter worlds.

Thing has knocked himself out just punching classic Thanos. Don't know where h1 got the idea that Thing beat Thanos.

Originally posted by Stoic
Kind of strange that the Surfer survived the destruction of an entire planet while in a normal state, but dies while over charged from impacting a moon. Let's get out the low showings to prove a point shall we? Or, could it have been that the charged up Surfer was unstable due to being filled with too much energy?
Surfer didn't die in that scene, he was just unconscious.

And you're right about all that energy making Surfer unstable. Absorbing that much energy caused Surfer to go mentally insane to the point where he couldn't control it properly, and couldn't even navigate his way to his target moon. He needed Drax and Hulk to physically bat him toward the right direction.

Everyone knows Surfer is a casual planet buster and destroys moons as a side-effect of his battles.

Originally posted by One-Punch
Nothing h1 said is even remotely true. Namor shattered all the bones in his fist punching Thanos and it only gave Thanos a bloody lip. Namor then proceeded to get stomped in a few panels by Thanos, who intentionally let him live so that Namor could watch the Cabal slaughter worlds.

Thing has knocked himself out just punching classic Thanos. Don't know where h1 got the idea that Thing beat Thanos.


Surfer didn't die in that scene, he was just unconscious.

And you're right about all that energy making Surfer unstable. Absorbing that much energy caused Surfer to go mentally insane to the point where he couldn't control it properly, and couldn't even navigate his way to his target moon. He needed Drax and Hulk to physically bat him toward the right direction.

Everyone knows Surfer is a casual planet buster and destroys moons as a side-effect of his battles.

Blatantly false. He was half way dead and in limbo.

Obviously his energy blasts are more powerful than his actual physical strikes. Being insane doesn't mean he was any less durable. He was far more powerful and still got killed.

This was written by the same writer who had Surfer and Morg destroy the planet BTW.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, they can't. Only surfer can pull some wins.

Yes, they can. Stop throwing your opinion on me.

It's not opinion. It's a fact.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Blatantly false. He was half way dead and in limbo.

Obviously his energy blasts are more powerful than his actual physical strikes. Being insane doesn't mean he was any less durable. He was far more powerful and still got killed.

This was written by the same writer who had Surfer and Morg destroy the planet BTW.
That was just a dream.

The last page in that book has Thanos stating Surfer lives and shows Surfer falling toward Goddesses' Counter-Earth. The next book shows Surfer waking on Counter-Earth weakened and gets attacked by enthralled Storm and Wonder Man. I mean if Surfer actually died in SS#84 like you're claiming there wouldn't be an SS#85 to #146 nor 4 more Silver Surfer volumes later on. His story would've just ended in SS#84.

That moon exploding scene was actually first written by Starlin in main event book Infinity Crusade #4 and later on shown again and expanded on from Surfer's perspective in SS#84 written by Ron Marz. Marz was just making it consistent with the main IC book.

No, it wasn't. Her mother specifically tells him that he is in between life and death.

After his talk with his mother, he chooses to live and returns from the limbo as it was his choice.

Don't play dumb now.

Marz wrote the scene and expanded on it. There is nothing to contradict it in Marz and Starlin issues. Starlin only wrote Surfer to be koed, it was Marz who wrote Surfer nearly dying.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, it wasn't. Her mother specifically tells him that he is in between life and death.

After his talk with his mother, he chooses to live and returns from the limbo as it was his choice.

Don't play dumb now.

Marz wrote the scene and expanded on it. There is nothing to contradict it in Marz and Starlin issues. Starlin only wrote Surfer to be koed, it was Marz who wrote Surfer nearly dying.
That fact that his parents showed up in "limbo" proves it was just a dream because the actual souls of Surfer's parents were being held by Mephisto in Hades at the time, as seen in SS#100.

Again, Thanos states Surfer lives on the last page, and Surfer wakes up very much alive in the next issue. Not sure how you can get away with claiming Surfer passed away. It's like the time you claimed DD one-shot Hercules or Punisher beat Ulik. It's just not true lol.

Starlin wrote the scene first in Infinity Crusade #4. Marz expanded on it further in Surfer's book which tied into the IC event. Unless you're trying to claim Ron Marz wrote Infinity Crusade?

No, it wasn't a dream. Surfer was shown to be half way dead and then chose to live but came out completely drained of power. The fact that the "dream" version of his parents knew that they were dead totally negates that they were dream versions.

Yeah, he does. Because he chose to live. He was dead and his soul actually got crossed into purgatory.

Marz expanded on the impact and showed how Surfer nearly died by the impact. How does Starlin writing it in Crusade negates what Marz chose to expand upon it? He wasn't forced to write Surfer nearly dying.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, it wasn't a dream. Surfer was shown to be half way dead and then chose to live but came out completely drained of power. The fact that the "dream" version of his parents knew that they were dead totally negates that they were dream versions.

Yeah, he does. Because he chose to live. He was dead and his soul actually got crossed into purgatory.

Marz expanded on the impact and showed how Surfer nearly died by the impact. How does Starlin writing it in Crusade negates what Marz chose to expand upon it? He wasn't forced to write Surfer nearly dying.
How can the souls of Surfer's parents be in Limbo and Hades at the same time? It was made clear in SS#100 the soul's of Surfer's parents were sent to hell when they committed suicide. Mephisto specifically held on to the souls of Surfer's parents to later torment Surfer with.

Also since when was the realm of Limbo a subway train station? More reason to think it was a dream.

Dying and almost dying are two very different things. You can't claim someone died if they actually survived. That just makes no sense.

Surfer blew a planet against ravenous casually,moon busting is beneath him....he stops at stardust,can't do anything to him

Scenario 1 stops at Terrax or Stardust
Scenario two stops at Surfer.

Originally posted by One-Punch
How can the souls of Surfer's parents be in Limbo and Hades at the same time? It was made clear in SS#100 the soul's of Surfer's parents were sent to hell when they committed suicide. Mephisto specifically held on to the souls of Surfer's parents to later torment Surfer with.

Also since when was the realm of Limbo a subway train station? More reason to think it was a dream.

Dying and almost dying are two very different things. You can't claim someone died if they actually survived. That just makes no sense.
Maybe Mephisto caught their souls later. What's clear that they weren't dream versions. They were aware that they were dead. Surfer had a dream in his fight with Firelord in the previous issue. Not in that one.

The realm of purgatory depends upon every person. The reaching here is quite funny here.

Keep it up Carver lite. Originally posted by Genii96
Surfer blew a planet against ravenous casually,moon busting is beneath him....he stops at stardust,can't do anything to him
Yet a moon busting killed him.

Puny surfer. And he punches Stardust to sleep.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Scenario 1 stops at Terrax or Stardust
Scenario two stops at Surfer.

Hahaha. Terrax stopping superman?

crylaugh

Oh, it's the ultimate Herald fanboy. I forgive you in that case.

Originally posted by Genii96
Surfer blew a planet against ravenous casually,moon busting is beneath him....he stops at stardust,can't do anything to him

... Except destroy Stardust easily whenever he wants.

Stardust isn't a serious threat to post IC Superman.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Scenario 1 stops at Terrax or Stardust
Scenario two stops at Surfer.

1. facepalm
2. facepalm2

Originally posted by Naija boy
Scenario 1 stops at Terrax or Stardust
Scenario two stops at Surfer.

Surfer fanboys seem to devolve over time.

Superman trounces over the trans tier and often the tier above that. The heralds can get some wins if he purposely holds back, but generally they're not remotely close to the levels Superman ramps up to when he gets serious.

Everybody here knows, deep down, the anti-Superman fanboys included, even if they'd like to deny it, that Darkseid at his standard levels will always be portrayed at least Thanos level if they'd ever meet.

It's a simple matter of observing how Superman does against Darkseid, and how Surfer/Thor/other heralds/etc. in Marvel do against Thanos.

Then people try to say with a straight face that serious Superman is around herald level...

There is no getting around this.

Think everyone here knows that Surfer IS the most powerful/versatile Herald and Thor is second.

Originally posted by carver9
Think everyone here knows that Surfer IS the most powerful/versatile Herald and Thor is second. Carver, grown ups are talking.

http://www.sondrakistan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/dunce.jpg

Speed isn't the reason Superman gets a majority or break even against Thor?

Originally posted by carver9
Speed isn't the reason Superman gets a majority or break even against Thor? Superman already beat Thor without resorting to speedblitz, in a way that made Thor shit his pants at how much more stronger Superman was than the heroes in Thor's own Universe.

At the bottom of his power.

Darkseid is above the pantheon gods.


It was really the decision to include him in Superman's mythology that began to separate him from the pack. Then add Doomsday, and later all the other crazy gods and abstracts.

First off Carver.

Thor > Surfer.

Second.

Supes is over them both. When he takes off the kids gloves he fights at levels guys that smash them both at the same time can't fight at.

They are all piers. Saying one is over the other is just being bias.

Originally posted by Juntai
First off Carver.

Thor > Surfer.

Second.

Supes is over them both. When he takes off the kids gloves he fights at levels guys that smash them both at the same time can't fight at.


Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by carver9
Jesus Christ.

You spelled Superman wrong.

Originally posted by bbrem123
They are all piers. Saying one is over the other is just being bias.
List off all heralds surfer has beaten. Superman has beaten more skyfathers than that.

Originally posted by -Pr-
You spelled Superman wrong.

Lol.

Originally posted by carver9
Jesus Christ. When they battle either its stopped short or Surfer gets the piss beat out of him. Every time. In the big battles Thor will stand longer than Surfer.
He's just stronger.


And while neither of those can drop Thanos, a trans tier... even both at once..

Superman fights trans, skyfathers and higher and wins. He even one shot trans level guys on a couple occasions.

Originally posted by -Pr-
You spelled Superman wrong.

Originally posted by Juntai
When they battle either its stopped short or Surfer gets the piss beat out of him. Every time. In the big battles Thor will stand longer than Surfer.
He's just stronger.


And while neither of those can drop Thanos, a trans tier... even both at once..

Superman fights trans, skyfathers and higher and wins. He even one shot trans level guys on a couple occasions.
Thor almost killed surfer in his own book. Under his main writer.

He later beat the shit out of him and Warlock at the same time.



But somehow Surfer is above Thor.

You meam WM thor? That version would beat the shit out of superman even worse

Originally posted by Genii96
You meam WM thor? That version would beat the shit out of superman even worse Of course the WM part gets left out for some reason.

Originally posted by Genii96
You meam WM thor? That version would beat the shit out of superman even worse Nope. Never definitively surpassed Thanos level which is still well below Superman fighting seriously. Supermans record in the trans tier and higher would make Thanos and Thor both shit their pants.

Thanos shitting his pants due to Superman?

https://www.mariehaynes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/seriously.jpg

Originally posted by Genii96
You meam WM thor? That version would beat the shit out of superman even worse
It wasn't WM Thor. He was just insane and not holding back.

BRB beat the shit out of him in the same book while heavily injured.

Superman would beat the shit out of that Thor.

It's strange to me how many people believe that Superman stops at Stardust, when the latter has been utterly trounced by BRB. Multiple times.

Originally posted by Galan007
It's strange to me how many people believe that Superman stops at Stardust, when the latter has been utterly trounced by BRB. Multiple times.
"Stahdust izz emmmune to physical attacks!!!!!!! ".

Plus being a Herald of Galactus, he/she/it is automatically given win over Superman.

People are giving Terrax and Firelord wins over Superman FFS.

baka

http://media.makeameme.org/created/yeeeah-about-that.jpg

Stops at stardust,quite simply

Repeat some more times and someone might believe it.

Everyone believes it,ur just in denial that's all

Originally posted by Genii96
Everyone believes it,ur just in denial that's all
Maybe in your dream world.

You want to compare feats from Superman. He will overpower Surfer and Stardust together in that scenario.

Originally posted by Galan007
It's strange to me how many people believe that Superman stops at Stardust, when the latter has been utterly trounced by BRB. Multiple times.

Its simple really. Superman doesnt have a mystical weapon to tip the scales like BRB. In the fights against BRB it was always the Stormbreaker that did the damage, not Bills fists. So what is Superman going to do again exactly?

(waiting for the HV, singing him out of existence answers)

Splits with morg or stops at surfer

Originally posted by tkitna
Its simple really. Superman doesnt have a mystical weapon to tip the scales like BRB. In the fights against BRB it was always the Stormbreaker that did the damage, not Bills fists. So what is Superman going to do again exactly?

(waiting for the HV, singing him out of existence answers)
That's why Bill bit his arm out?

And why does stormbreaker hitting him means Superman can't damage him? Stormbreaker just hits really hard. Not some mystical shit that allows it to harm due to its mystical nature.

Yea,when bill hit,punched and nit his arm,he couldnt even give stardust pause lmao...a physical smash by galactus didmt do shit....storm breaker is a magical weapon,anyone with a brain caan see that,give brb a normal hammer and he becomes as useless as superman against him

Your fanfiction is cute. How did Storm broke him apart?

Magic, right?

Originally posted by abhilegend


Your fanfiction is cute. How did Storm broke him apart?

Magic, right?

So now you're resorting to the lowest of his showings (which isn't really that low). The guy withstood two planets blowing up on him but you want to point out his fight against Storm. What if someone did the same to Superman?

Originally posted by carver9
So now you're resorting to the lowest of his showings (which isn't really that low). The guy withstood two planets blowing up on him but you want to point out his fight against Storm. What if someone did the same to Superman?
Its one of his what, four or five showings?

Someone blew Superman up with lightning?

removing the destroyer (who really shouldn't be in the thread because clearly being powered by pc vs powered by a soul as intended caused some problems and makes it impossible to gauge him....) he gets to ss and wins some and loses some. same as happens in EVERY one of the 100 threads that are exactly like this one.....

Originally posted by ghostman
splits with or gets slight edge on norrin. also can a more knowledgeable supes fan confirm the feat of superman powering a machine that warped reality across 52 universes?

Sigh. I'm afraid to ask, but do you think Superman consistently is above multiversal reality warpers?

He has more showings of those than Surfer creating kryptonite and red sun rays in the middle of the fight.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Its one of his what, four or five showings?

Someone blew Superman up with lightning?

And looking at his average, it's above Storm output. Kinda like comparing Superman getting his face wrecked by Hercules vs him withstanding punches from Darkseid.

Originally posted by carver9
And looking at his average, it's above Storm output. Kinda like comparing Superman getting his face wrecked by Hercules vs him withstanding punches from Darkseid.
Superman never got his face wrecked by Hercules. He elbowed Superman and drew a little blood.

It's still a legitimate showing and brings Stardust average a lot down.

Originally posted by -Pr-
You spelled Superman wrong.



I bust out laughing reading this, and the people around me start looking at me funny since i couldn't stop myself.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman never got his face wrecked by Hercules. He elbowed Superman and drew a little blood.

It's still a legitimate showing and brings Stardust average a lot down.

A little blood? Blood was oozing everywhere. Then he got punched across the block (and Hercules is weaker than Diana). Imagine if a upper tier person like Thor or Hulk repeated the same thing.



Anyways, going by Stardust average, his durability is pretty uber. Superman durability is uber as well, that's IF we don't want to count the Hercules showing.

Originally posted by SquallX


I bust out laughing reading this, and the people around me start looking at me funny since i couldn't stop myself.



Originally posted by carver9
A little blood? Blood was oozing everywhere. Then he got punched across the block (and Hercules is weaker than Diana). Imagine if a upper tier person like Thor or Hulk repeated the same thing.



Anyways, going by Stardust average, his durability is pretty uber. Superman durability is uber as well, that's IF we don't want to count the Hercules showing.

facepalm

Originally posted by -Pr-




facepalm

He's low balling not recognizing both of these characters (every character) have showings outside of their norm.

Originally posted by carver9
He's low balling not recognizing both of these characters (every character) have showings outside of their norm.

Pot, meet kettle.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Pot, meet kettle.

Nope. I'm not in ABHI tier when it comes to low balling. I feel confident that you can't find a post in the comic vs forum where I low balled a character (outside of me using reverse psychology).

Originally posted by carver9
Nope. I'm not in ABHI tier when it comes to low balling. I feel confident that you can't find a post in the comic vs forum where I low balled a character (outside of me using reverse psychology).

Dude, you're the galactus of lowballing.

lol, any post I find, you'll just say is reverse psychology to cover your ass.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Dude, you're the galactus of lowballing.

lol, any post I find, you'll just say is reverse psychology to cover your ass.

... Galactus level? Really?

I think you misunderstand my posts. I rarely lowball unless I'm trying to prove a point. ABHI is the one that thinks it takes Storm level power to stop a Herald of Galactus.

Carver is lowballing Pr's intelligence right now.

Originally posted by carver9
... Galactus level? Really?

I think you misunderstand my posts. I rarely lowball unless I'm trying to prove a point. ABHI is the one that thinks it takes Storm level power to stop a Herald of Galactus.

\\'/

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Carver is lowballing Pr's intelligence right now.



Besides, I never said Abhi was innocent.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He has more showings of those than Surfer creating kryptonite and red sun rays in the middle of the fight.



So was that you answering "yes" to my question? It sure sounds like a yes.

Originally posted by -Pr-
\\'/





Besides, I never said Abhi was innocent.

You said I'm Galactus Level though and Galactus is pretty high up the food chain.

Originally posted by carver9
You said I'm Galactus Level though and Galactus is pretty high up the food chain.

Yes, he is. You could be the LT of lowballing if you like. You and Abhi could be its multiple faces.

Every face has seen anger.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman never got his face wrecked by Hercules. He elbowed Superman and drew a little blood.

It's still a legitimate showing and brings Stardust average a lot down.

Herc basically disfigured his face with an atomic elbow and you know it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Every face has seen anger.

Face seen rage too.

Originally posted by carver9
A little blood? Blood was oozing everywhere. Then he got punched across the block (and Hercules is weaker than Diana). Imagine if a upper tier person like Thor or Hulk repeated the same thing.



Anyways, going by Stardust average, his durability is pretty uber. Superman durability is uber as well, that's IF we don't want to count the Hercules showing.
Haha, what?

http://i.imgur.com/0XqRbox.jpg

A little blood is coming from his nose. That's all. Heck, Thing made WWH bleed worse with a punch.

Hercules didn't do shit to Superman. He was knocked into a building, came back and koed Hercules with an attack.

Originally posted by carver9
So now you're resorting to the lowest of his showings (which isn't really that low). The guy withstood two planets blowing up on him but you want to point out his fight against Storm. What if someone did the same to Superman?

As an example that "Stormbreaker is MYS-TAH-KEL!!!!" is an excuse?

As for the topic, not sure about 1, definitely clears 2.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Haha, what?

http://i.imgur.com/0XqRbox.jpg

A little blood is coming from his nose. That's all. Heck, Thing made WWH bleed worse with a punch.

Hercules didn't do shit to Superman. He was knocked into a building, came back and koed Hercules with an attack.

Blood gushing out of his nose and mouth. WWH allowed Thing to pound on him. That's different.

When did Supes Koed him?

Only his nose. And no, Hulk didn't allow Thing to pound on him.

Just one page later.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/70123/3525805-0002127873-34999.jpg

Even if WWH WAS letting him punch...how does Hulk reduce his durability????

Originally posted by abhilegend
Only his nose. And no, Hulk didn't allow Thing to pound on him.

Just one page later.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/70123/3525805-0002127873-34999.jpg

So Superman and Superman koed him? Gotcha.

No, KC Superman backhanded him and Hercules was pretty much unharmed at that point.

Superman came back and koed him casually.

Originally posted by carver9
Blood gushing out of his nose and mouth. WWH allowed Thing to pound on him. That's different.

When did Supes Koed him?

Stupid argument, Bootsie. Oh, and--


Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Even if WWH WAS letting him punch...how does Hulk reduce his durability????

Originally posted by carver9
Blood gushing out of his nose and mouth. WWH allowed Thing to pound on him. That's different.

When did Supes Koed him?

Did Hulk let that Gorilla bite and drew blood from him too?