Super Power Beat Down coming up: Maul vs Spiderman

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Darth Abonis
Who will take it. Darth Maul, the Lord of the Sith or your friendly neighborhood spiderman?

carthage
Bane will probably bite the dust

ILS
Maul should win, Spider-Man will probably be given the verdict. But it's SPBD so who gives a shit lol.

ares834
Spider-man.

Emperordmb
Spoderman

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Prolly Thanos.

Darth Thor
Oooh not sure tbh. Leaning towards Maul.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Oooh not sure tbh. Leaning towards Maul. laughing out loud

Q99
I'd go with Spider-man. He can stay at range, move enough to avoid a lot of force attacks, and webbing isn't something that can be entirely blocked with the saber. Overwhelm him with enough webbing to stop the saber, then punch him out should work.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Q99
I'd go with Spider-man. He can stay at range, move enough to avoid a lot of force attacks, and webbing isn't something that can be entirely blocked with the saber. Overwhelm him with enough webbing to stop the saber, then punch him out should work.

Maul has counters to all this Imo.

Will be hard for Spider-Man to keep his range when Maul can leap as far and as fast as he can.

Considering Wolverine always cuts through Spidey's webbs, I'm not sure Maul's Saber wound have much trouble. Especially moving as fast as he does.

Durability? Maul can take those punches seeing as he can even survive being cut in 2.

But Maul's main advantage is, he only needs to land 1 Saber hit and he's won.

Still I think this is a fight that can go either way.

ares834

Zenwolf
While I don't care much for it, you know the fight is gonna be really off the wall with little to no research done on the characters. Though I see this mostly for SW related characters.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Comics vs Star Wars tends to not end well for the latter. smile

Zenwolf
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Comics vs Star Wars tends to not end well for the latter. smile

Mostly cause lack of knowledge on the latter. Actually probably the biggest reason I can think of.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Nah. Comics are just ridiculously more powerful beyond comprehension.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Nah. Comics are just ridiculously more powerful beyond comprehension.

Well that too yeah, but lack of knowledge is also because they don't know who to put who against. You can make Comics vs SW fights, but most don't have much knowledge on SW to actually make balanced ones. Because at best, your general SW fan has seen the movies and cartoons, nothing else.

ares834

Zenwolf
Implying that SW characters can't or haven't done that? I know you're just using an example, but still.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Nor is it mind blowing to see Spider-Man defeat a herald of galactus. smile

ares834
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Nor is it mind blowing to see Spider-Man defeat a herald of galactus. smile

Nah. That one is pretty ridiculous...

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Implying that SW characters can't or haven't done that? I know you're just using an example, but still.

Sure, but in SW that tends to be a higher tier character and the feat is usually used to wank said character.

FreshestSlice
Marvel is a universe were Magneto can rip apart the fabric of the universe and make DE Palpatine shit himself. Star Wars doesn't even compare bar the Ones.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
TL;DR: there's a multitude of marvel/DC characters that'd solo all of sw effortlessly.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by ares834
Nah. That one is pretty ridiculous...



Sure, but in SW that tends to be a higher tier character and the feat is usually used to wank said character.

Eh I wouldn't say only high tier characters could defeat 100 thugs. Although going down, you may have to then factor in gear and the like for others.

Although now I'm genuinely curious Ares, the average thug in comics. Do they have anything going for them? Or generally do they just show up to be beat? Your answer will be the outcome of mine, which will come later as I have work here soon.

Though now bringing it up, I feel this might make an interesting topic discussion regarding such things. I might make it over on CV later on.

ILS
lel.

Spider-Man isn't faster, he's far, far less skilled as a warrior, would get oneshotted by a lightsaber, has no defence to telekinesis, and his webbing would be shredded or just avoided by Maul's agility.

Q99
Originally posted by ILS
lel.

Spider-Man isn't faster, he's far, far less skilled as a warrior, would get oneshotted by a lightsaber, has no defence to telekinesis, and his webbing would be shredded or just avoided by Maul's agility.

Spider-man has tremendous speed, has fought very skilled villains for years, has spider-sense to avoid lightsabers and telekinesis- remember how grievous dodged them?- and webbing can both cover an area and has been used to hit very agile foes itself. And Maul could get one-shotted by a strong punch from Spider-man.


If Peter's pissed, he can lift a subway car. Pure physical strength wise, he's above any Jedi or Sith. Defense wise, he's built all around dodging and agility and powerful sixth sense.

Q99
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Maul has counters to all this Imo.

Oh, it's not a stomp, they both have responses, I just think Spidey has the edge.



Web swinging...



Spider-man has once webbed Wolverine's hands to his head to immobilize him. He also once dodged past an entire team of X-men.




Ah, has little to do with whether someone is KOed...

ILS
Originally posted by Q99
Spider-man has tremendous speed, has fought very skilled villains for years, has spider-sense to avoid lightsabers and telekinesis- remember how grievous dodged them?- and webbing can both cover an area and has been used to hit very agile foes itself. And Maul could get one-shotted by a strong punch from Spider-man.


If Peter's pissed, he can lift a subway car. Pure physical strength wise, he's above any Jedi or Sith. Defense wise, he's built all around dodging and agility and powerful sixth sense. 1. So does Maul.

2. Jedi and Sith lightsaber forms are fighting styles comprised of every known swordfighting technique or martial in existence. Nick Gillard likened it to if an earth-based martial art took inspiration from every swordfighting culture to have ever walked the earth and applied the most effective methods from each (as well as virtually any other method of swinging a melee weapon,) into the ultimate swordfighting style. So not only is Peter's training and technical skill blown out of the water utterly by one of the most highly trained and skilled Sith in history, but Maul and all Force users have Force-guided reflexes and clairvoyance, as well as battle precognition, on top of their natural physical skill, to supplement them. Spidey is outclassed in terms of fighting skill.

3. Yeah, no, his spider sense doesn't prevent him from being tagged in melee combat. Spider-Man has been hit before. People less capable than Maul, e.g Captain America, Black Panther, Wolverine, have all tagged Peter and given him a run for his money on account of superior skill and approaching speed; Maul has equivalent or better speed on top of far superior skill, and he isn't punching Peter, he's cutting him apart every time his lightsaber touches him.

4. Good for Grievous, not seeing how this applies to Peter. Also, you can't dodge direct telekinesis. Peter can't protect his windpipe.

5. I don't really care. When Maul was 15 he could effortlessly dodge blaster fire on account of his precognition. Force users can deflect hypersonic slugs, blaster fire coming from every direction. Hell, Force users who can do that, e.g Komari Vosa, have found a Maul with an injured arm to be so fast he was striking from all angles simultaneously in her view. Peter's webs are going to fly past Maul or be cut to ribbons.

6. And likewise Maul can oneshot Peter. What actually matters is who can hit who. I'm banking on the far superior martial artist with equivalent speed and precog of his own to come out on top, especially when he's rocking an energy sword much longer than Peter's arms.

Never understood the logic that Marvel is inherently superior to other universes simply because it has more material. Quality over quantity.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by ILS
Never understood the logic that Marvel is inherently superior to other universes simply because it has more material. Quality over quantity.

Sorry if I'm misinterpreting this, but are you implying Marvel doesn't have both of those in spades?

ILS
No, lol. I'm saying quantity is irrelevant if quality is present.

quanchi112
Originally posted by ILS
lel.

Spider-Man isn't faster, he's far, far less skilled as a warrior, would get oneshotted by a lightsaber, has no defence to telekinesis, and his webbing would be shredded or just avoided by Maul's agility. laughing out loud

You clearly haven't read many if any Spider-Man comics to see what he's been up against.

Q99
Sure, but not as much.



Sure, but he's got other advantages, and has tons of experience fighting superhuman foes, including ones with more power and advantages than Maul.



You're right, it doesn't, *but* he doesn't need to do fair melee combat to win, and it also often depends on how serious he is. If he's focused he can be a real dodge machine, if he's distracted or self-doubting it can make him more vulnerable.

He has dodged everything Wolverine, a super-fast centuries old super skilled warrior with cut-anything claws on both arms, has thrown at him before.



Grievous dodged direct telekinesis. Peter's faster. He can protect it by moving.



Ok, and Peter's dodged machinegun fire coming from every direction, lasers, teleporters, people who's superpower is never missing...



I don't think you quite get what 'wide' means. It means they can cover an area.

Heck, he can do stuff like cover the ground to limit Maul's maneuverability.



I'm banking on the one with the area effect disabling ranged power who's faster and a lot stronger, who knows full well to not let the sword touch him, and is also renowned for his cleverness against skillful and powerful foes.

The Merchant
Mauls reactions allow him to block literal lasers like I fives laser beams. Maul has far faster reaction speed, and with the Force being an omnipresent energy, can just grip Spider-man with it and pulverize his bones. Pretty sure moving a multi ton vehicle like Maul did would break Spider-man in a hundred pieces.

quanchi112
Originally posted by The Merchant
Mauls reactions allow him to block literal lasers like I fives laser beams. Maul has far faster reaction speed, and with the Force being an omnipresent energy, can just grip Spider-man with it and pulverize his bones. Pretty sure moving a multi ton vehicle like Maul did would break Spider-man in a hundred pieces. laughing out loud

ares834
Originally posted by The Merchant
Mauls reactions allow him to block literal lasers like I fives laser beams. Maul has far faster reaction speed, and with the Force being an omnipresent energy, can just grip Spider-man with it and pulverize his bones. Pretty sure moving a multi ton vehicle like Maul did would break Spider-man in a hundred pieces.

No. To pretty much all of that. Spidey has dodged lasers before as well. His Spider-sense is every bit as good as precog. Plus there is the fact that he is faster. He's also taken hits far beyond anything Maul can dish out with TK. Maul's best bet is a TK saber throw combo. But that's scripting the fight.

Sinious
@ ILS

Finally, someone makes sense in this thread.

Maul one-shots with TK. thumb up

ares834
laughing out loud

One shot Spidey with his TK. You're joking, right?

Sinious
What keeps him from breaking his neck again?

ares834
The fact that he routinely takes punches from characters who can lift over ten tons and occasionally a punch from a character who can lift far in excess of that...

Sinious
How does that protect his neck or windpipe?

Maul will instantly grab him with the force and choke the life out of him or simply apply enough force to break his neck.

ares834
So you know exactly what Maul "will" do now?

Anyway, while Maul could choke Spidey, Spidey has ways of escaping or forcing Maul to let go of his hold via his webs. As for breaking his neck, sorry I haven't see any feats from Maul that indicate he could do so on command.

FreshestSlice
And that's while implying that Maul's TK is even strong enough to crush Spider-Man's windpipe.

Raptor22
Realistically Spiderman would jump around, shooting some webs, mocking Maul and generally joking around. After a minute or two of that, maul would get frustrated and pissed and probably snatch him in tk and slam him around or some such. This would do nothing more than make spidey realise its time to stop messing around and after probaly another sarcastic comment or two he would proceed to 1-2 shot maul.

ILS
Originally posted by Q99
Sure, but not as much.Prove it.

Prove it.

Dodging doesn't win fights. Prove he can dodge Maul in the first place. And while you're at it prove Maul won't just ground him with telekinesis.
He's also been given good fights by him and others on plenty of occasions. Point is Spider-Man isn't immune to being hit. Also, Maul outclasses Wolverine in all but healing/skeleton and physiological senses. He has all of and more of Wolverine's technical skill, along with Force-assisted skill, equivalent strength, better speed and all of the benefits of Force clairvoyance/precognition on top of that.
No he didn't, he dodged blasts. I'm talking about Force Grip, or in the case of Peter's windpipe, Crush. Also, prove it. Grievous has attacked Obi-Wan faster than he can think and with speed capable of overwhelming his defences, has astonished Mace Windu, someone who bats hoards of hypersonic bullets around effortlessly, and has moved fast enough for Durge - same guy who can perceive Anakin and Obi-Wan moving in slow motion - to compliment his speed, of all people.
That's nice? I was responding to your point that Spidey can actually hit Maul with a web - he can't - not comparing speed feats.
I don't give a shit how wide it is. Maul can cut through it and move past the webbing. The rest can fly past him. Also, prove it's wide in a meaningful way.
That isn't going to let him win the fight. The guy who moves so fast while climbing and conducting other activities through a series of courtyards, that a security camera would need to be put into slow motion in order to display an image of him at all, isn't going to be troubled with playing a game of dodge the floor-lava. Also, Maul can just use TK to crush Peter's webshooters.
His webs are useless and can easily be cut through or disabled altogether. He's not faster. His strength is as useful as a lightsaber blade. Maul is far more skilled than Peter and Peter has beaten nobody as skilled as Maul, I hesitate to think if he's even fought anyone and done well on the same calibre. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out swords are bad, it doesn't mean he's going to have the choice to avoid just as he didn't have the choice of being punched the thousands of times it has happened to him by people lower than Maul.

Come back with actual evidence in your next post. I can source anything you need in response.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Raptor22
Realistically Spiderman would jump around, shooting some webs, mocking Maul and generally joking around. After a minute or two of that, maul would get frustrated and pissed and probably snatch him in tk and slam him around or some such. This would do nothing more than make spidey realise its time to stop messing around and after probaly another sarcastic comment or two he would proceed to 1-2 shot maul.
Probably.

ILS
That's a worryingly retarded post to agree with for someone who apparently has no mental handicaps, my man.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Raptor22
Realistically Spiderman would jump around, shooting some webs, mocking Maul and generally joking around. After a minute or two of that, maul would get frustrated and pissed and probably snatch him in tk and slam him around or some such. This would do nothing more than make spidey realise its time to stop messing around and after probaly another sarcastic comment or two he would proceed to 1-2 shot maul.

Sinious
Originally posted by ILS
That's a worryingly retarded post to agree with for someone who apparently has no mental handicaps, my man. thumb up

Originally posted by ares834
So you know exactly what Maul "will" do now?

LOL you know what I meant.

Maul can multitask as all he has to do is laugh off Spiderman's web attacks(which he'll have to do while getting choked). So yeah, not seeing how Spidey will escape Maul's grip.

Dude, being able to survive punches from strong dudes doesn't translate to having a windpipe durable enough to be immune to heavy force application(an omnipresent force btw). Maul's TK is not noob level as he even TK'ed a small army with his brobeans. To think that Spiderman is THAT durable is pretty ridiculous.

ILS
Yeah, the guy who collapses massive tunnels after being stabbed, rips shuttles from cliffs while running and after being dismembered, capable of bringing a barracks down at the age of 15, and who can casually Force choke Obi-Wan; someone who can blow someone as durable as Durge apart, isn't going to have an issue hurting our perfect little snowflake Spider-Man with telekinesis. Especially against his throat.

Try again KMC.

Sinious
thumb up laughing out loud

quanchi112
Originally posted by ILS
Yeah, the guy who collapses massive tunnels after being stabbed, rips shuttles from cliffs while running and after being dismembered, capable of bringing a barracks down at the age of 15, and who can casually Force choke Obi-Wan; someone who can blow someone as durable as Durge apart, isn't going to have an issue hurting our perfect little snowflake Spider-Man with telekinesis. Especially against his throat.

Try again KMC. Your Spider-Man ignorance speaks volumes about the levels of fanboyism you're exhibiting here.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Sinious
@ ILS

Finally, someone makes sense in this thread.

Maul one-shots with TK. thumb up laughing out loud


This is one of the worst posts I've ever seen.

ILS
Originally posted by quanchi112
Your Spider-Man ignorance speaks volumes about the levels of fanboyism you're exhibiting here. It's because you touch yourself at night, Quan.

quanchi112
Originally posted by ILS
It's because you touch yourself at night, Quan. FFS Spider-Man has defeated the Hulk whose strength makes the greatest feats of anyone's tk in Star Wars canon look ridiculously pathetic. Spider-Man would kill Maul in one all out punch. Maul went rounds with Pre Vizlsa. oh and I also like Maul way more than Spider-Man but unlike most I'm objective and don't go with the guy I like more.

ILS
scans or gtfo

quanchi112
Originally posted by ILS
scans or gtfo I lost all my comics years ago when my PC went bad but ask someone else if you doubt me. Spider-Man is far too strong and agile for Maul. It isn't CLOSE and when you toss in the webbing this is very one sided.

ILS
So you have no evidence.

Raptor22
.

Raptor22
..

Raptor22
...

Raptor22
,

Raptor22
'

ILS
Originally posted by Raptor22
. Cute.
http://i.imgur.com/7SD5kku.png

―The Wrath of Darth Maul

―Darth Maul: Saboteur

Hell, Komari Vosa can do this shit:

―Maul: Lockdown
And this is how she perceived a Maul who had just prior been shot in the arm with a blaster pistol at point blank:

―Maul: Lockdown

Not seeing the big deal.

FreshestSlice
Blam. Maul too stronk.

Raptor22
The other scans r pretty self explanatory, this one he is being pounded on by collosus who at the time was also being powered by cytorak the being that powers juggernaut.

ILS
Raptor: Your second scan is Ant-sized. Beating up the Punisher isn't a feat on Maul's level, lol. I'm aware he can lift trains. It doesn't address my argument that a lightsaber is just as capable of oneshotting as Peter's strength, but Maul is the far more skilled fighter.

Not that scan-bombing in of itself is even an argument worth addressing but there you go.

|King Joker|
Maul is pretty cool

ILS
I'll take it thumb up

Raptor22
Originally posted by ILS
Raptor: Your second scan is Ant-sized. Beating up the Punisher isn't a feat on Maul's level, lol. I'm aware he can lift trains. It doesn't address my argument that a lightsaber is just as capable of oneshotting as Peter's strength, but Maul is the far more skilled fighter.

Not that scan-bombing in of itself is even an argument worth addressing but there you go. sry about size, posting from phone. The punisher scan was to show his combat speed, being in multiple places at once.


Lol. Silly me. When u said scans or gtfo, i thought u actually wanted someone to post scans.

Q99
Originally posted by ILS
Raptor: Your second scan is Ant-sized. Beating up the Punisher isn't a feat on Maul's level, lol. I'm aware he can lift trains. It doesn't address my argument that a lightsaber is just as capable of oneshotting as Peter's strength, but Maul is the far more skilled fighter.



And Peter's got better mobility, a versatile ranged method, has faced people in Maul's skill level who also have insta-win weapons, regularly fights a large number of superhuman foes with strong weaponry, and a tendency to perform very well when pressed to the edge.

Melee skill is good, but it's not everything. Spider-man is the more experienced and more clever fighter who has gone up against groups of superhumans not all that rarely.

quanchi112
Originally posted by ILS
So you have no evidence. I don't have the scans as I've said but clearly you're ignorant because you're saying Maul wins without knowing jack or shit about Spider-Man. That's called biased ignorance.

Raptor22
I wouldnt even say for certain that maul is the more skilled fighter. In several arcs troughout his career pete has trained with some of the best MA in marvel. Here is him training with shang chi after he loses his spider sense.

Raptor22
Another strength feat. Thats the daily bugle hes holding up

Raptor22
.

Raptor22
Another speed. Cropped pic, couldnt fit whole thing

Raptor22
Another speed/agility

Raptor22
Even has experience against laser swords.

ILS
Originally posted by Raptor22
sry about size, posting from phone. The punisher scan was to show his combat speed, being in multiple places at once.


Lol. Silly me. When u said scans or gtfo, i thought u actually wanted someone to post scans. Uh... so afterimages now denote Spider-Man level speed? In that case not only has Maul replicated this and then some, a novice Ulic Qel-Droma who was weakened has done so. We're discussing the wrong fight, lmao.

Sure, but a scan by itself is hardly compelling if the poster doesn't relate what's happening within it to the argument.


Like I said on earlier pages:
"Jedi and Sith lightsaber forms are fighting styles comprised of every known swordfighting technique or martial in existence. Nick Gillard likened it to if an earth-based martial art took inspiration from every swordfighting culture to have ever walked the earth and applied the most effective methods from each (as well as virtually any other method of swinging a melee weapon,) into the ultimate swordfighting style. So not only is Peter's training and technical skill blown out of the water utterly by one of the most highly trained and skilled Sith in history, but Maul and all Force users have Force-guided reflexes and clairvoyance, as well as battle precognition, on top of their natural physical skill, to supplement them. Spidey is outclassed in terms of fighting skill."

Nobody Peter has fought has that scope of technical skill, especially when you consider how far more ridiculously populous and old the galaxy is compared to just earth, meaning it's going to have much more advanced martial arts. The Jedi's have been in development for 25,000 years, for crying out loud, and that's not even factoring in Maul's Force-assisted swordsmanship.
Let me know when Peter can do that to Komari Vosa.
If only said laser sword was wielded by someone with 1/10th of Maul's ability.

Q99: "And Peter's got better mobility, a versatile ranged method, has faced people in Maul's skill level who also have insta-win weapons, regularly fights a large number of superhuman foes with strong weaponry, and a tendency to perform very well when pressed to the edge. "

Prove it, I've debunked why it's not going to help him, prove it, prove that that matters, and that's nice but it doesn't mean much by itself.

"Melee skill is good, but it's not everything. Spider-man is the more experienced and more clever fighter who has gone up against groups of superhumans not all that rarely."

It's a pretty big thing, lol. It's what separated Peter from Cap in their Civil war fight where Cap was taking the edge. Same with every time Wolverine or Black Panther have held their own. Prove Peter's experience is better than Maul's through feats. Prove he's more clever in a meaningful way. Hell, prove something, I'm begging you.

Raptor22
The scans were all pretty self explanatory, but it is probably my fault in assuming u had some knowledge on both characters, and wouldnt need everything explained to u. Thats my bad.

Ils sorry but ur clearly showing some ignorance of marvel comics. Just captain america has mastered every MA on earth, (and marvel earth has far more styles than real life earth) as well as several alien MA's that have been around for a hell of alot longer than 25,000 years. And he is just one of the trainers petes had over the years.

Q99
Any shot of Peter webswinging should show you plenty of mobility.




No, you've said what Maul's defense is. Which is not the same as the defense always working or there not being ways around the defense, especially as block-with-sabers is not a flawless defense. Web the ground to hinder mobility, web widely so that some of it gets past the saber no matter how he blocks and he has to spend time cutting free, and so on.





Wolverine's been mentioned, and you seem familiar with the fact Spider-man has fought him, so proof seems redundant.

Peter's also fought Iron Fist, a superhuman martial artist who's one hit kill move is in his name.

Spider-man does pretty well:
Leadup
Punch



"Prove that it matters that vast experience against superhuman foes matters against a superhuman foe."

That's not a great defense there.



*Points to all the other stuff above* His ability to improve his performance when in a serious situation is just part of the equation.



Cap also relied heavily on his shield hijinks, but note with Wolverine, sometimes Logan holds his own, but when Spider-man gets serious, he comes out significantly on top.



Other people are posting scans, you're dismissing them.

You're trying to have it both ways, "Prove it, I dare you!" and "Proof doesn't count, it's just scans."


By the way, something else I want to point out- While a lightsaber can be a one-hit kill, glancing and shallow hits are also possible, and especially with a super-agile super-precognitive foe, fairly likely.

Peter's punches are likely to be either a KO or at least a seriously affecting blow whether they hit head, torso, or even leg.

ILS
Raptor:The way debating works is you provide evidence and relate it to your argument. That is a core rule of debating. The onus isn't on me to interpret your material for you and then address it. I can do that, and I did it internally (I've been debating on Comic Vine for 2 and a half years, I'm well aware of who Spider-Man and Shang Chi are), but I'm not doing your job for you. I know you aren't incapable, you just need to, yeno, do it, as Shia said.

Cap is "adept" in every fighting style, I don't recall him being a master. Marvel earth is based on real-life earth so I don't recall it having "far more styles". Regardless, the galaxy of Star Wars over the course of 25,000 years is going to have far more martial arts than earth over the course of 2000-3000, or whenever we got good at fighting. Cap mastering an alien martial pales in comparison to Maul's style being made up of the best aspects of literally every alien martial art in the galaxy, lol.

Calling me ignorant isn't an argument, it's a logical fallacy commonly used when someone lacks an argument. Try again.

carthage
ILS tearing it up

Q99
The results of one Logan vs Peter fight (remember, this is someone with claws that can also slice through web)


Mobility:
Not just dodges bullets, but bounces around a room

Spider-man vs a team of X-men, multiple of whom have super-agility, one of whom is throwing lightning.

Zenwolf
Ya know it just occurred to me through this discussion, I think people overlook the fact just where characters come from which can make a difference when factoring the variety of environments, adversaries they come across and so on.

Not getting involved here, but it's just something I've noticed now.

Raptor22
Originally posted by ILS
Raptor:The way debating works is you provide evidence and relate it to your argument. That is a core rule of debating. The onus isn't on me to interpret your material for you and then address it. I can do that, and I did it internally (I've been debating on Comic Vine for 2 and a half years, I'm well aware of who Spider-Man and Shang Chi are), but I'm not doing your job for you. I know you aren't incapable, you just need to, yeno, do it, as Shia said.

Cap is "adept" in every fighting style, I don't recall him being a master. Marvel earth is based on real-life earth so I don't recall it having "far more styles". Regardless, the galaxy of Star Wars over the course of 25,000 years is going to have far more martial arts than earth over the course of 2000-3000, or whenever we got good at fighting. Cap mastering an alien martial pales in comparison to Maul's style being made up of the best aspects of literally every alien martial art in the galaxy, lol.

Calling me ignorant isn't an argument, it's a logical fallacy commonly used when someone lacks an argument. Try again. sorry but im not gonna waste my time explaining that a scan of pete lifting a tank is a strength feat, and im posting it to show he is stronger than maul. If u need every little detail broken down and explained to u while ur feigning ignorance then ur talking to the wrong guy.

If u want to compare feats, skills, accolades etc... And have a discussion about who would win based off the info/knowledge available to us then im down. If u want to play little games like expecting me to interpret things for u that u already admittedly interpreted on ur own but want me to explain anyway, im simply not going to do that.

quanchi112
@Ils you already admitted your ignorance. Spider-Man operates on a much higher level than Maul. Ffs with a group at his side Maul was driven back by bounty hunters in Clone wars series until more mandalorians tipped the scales.

Sinious
Still haven't seen a single argument that rescues Peter from getting choked. thumb up

ares834
Edit: Deleted

Don't feel like doing this.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by ILS
Your second scan is Ant-sized.
sad

Sinious
Originally posted by ares834
Edit: Deleted

Don't feel like doing this. Too late. And yeah: those scans you mentioned where Spidey survives Colossus(before you edited your post), have you seen the part where Colossus is confirmed to be holding back?

ares834
Did you see the part where Magik calls Colossus pathetic for holding back implying that she was not?

Sinious
She doesn't even do anything other than smashing him to the ground with her one hand. If she was going for the kill, she could've done so don't you think? Maul's TK force application on his windpipe will be something else completely and choke the life out of him.

ares834
She calls her brother pathetic for holding back. So sorry, but I don't see any reason to believe she was holding back when she smashed him against the ground.

Sinious
Her goal was to smash him against the ground while Colossus jumps on him stomps him. I don't she held back from her goal too. It wasn't a lethal attack though(unlike Maul's TK which won't just smash Spidey to the ground but choke him until he dies).

ares834
https://culturallydisoriented.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/d1zxa.gif

Sinious
Still nothing that proves Spidey is immune to force choke. thumb up

FreshestSlice
Didn't Spider Man break out of Grey's TK? No ****ing way can Maul do shit to him, let alone kill him with it. He solo'd some of the greatest X-Men, at once, moving faster than Wolverine and Nightcrawler who can teleport. How the **** does he not turn Maul into a smear?
http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/ppsm98-1.jpg
He's supporting the goddamned Bugle. The Bugle. I really want to see the explanation for how Maul's TK begins to compare to a ****ing building.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Q99
The results of one Logan vs Peter fight (remember, this is someone with claws that can also slice through web)


The majority of the time Wolverine slices through his webbing no problem.

This is a result of another one of their fights:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=wolverine+stabs+spider+man&biw=1024&bih=657&tbm=isch& amp;imgil=dP1R3GIgdCEyIM%253A%253BvYoKiKZUV_BHpM%2
53Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.comicsrecommended.com%25252Farticles%25252Fmarvel%25252Fspider-man-knights-013.html&source=iu&pf=m& amp;fir=dP1R3GIgdCEyIM%253A%252CvYoKiKZUV_BHpM%252
C_&usg=__sXlOmP9bKriNBgCSdfYdQvMLbjc%3D&ved=0ahUKEwidqvfj9q3JAhWCeA4KHWwKDIgQyjcILQ&ei=T-VWVt3GFILxOeyUsMAI#imgrc=dP1R3GIgdCEyIM%3A&usg=__sXlOmP9bKriNBgCSdfYdQvMLbjc%3D


See how that works.

Besides Logan doesn't have Maul's pre-cog, and Webs can stick to claws but not to a Saber blade.


Originally posted by Q99
Mobility:
Not just dodges bullets, but bounces around a room

Maul can do some pretty mean dodging himself:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=darth+maul+vs+black+sun&biw=1024&bih=657&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X& amp;%20ved=0ahUKEwiAnYCT963JAhVEdQ8KHfUJCs0Q_AUIBi
gB#%20ved=0ahUKEwiAnYCT963JAhVEdQ8KHfUJCs0Q_AUIBig
B&imgr%3Cbr%20/%3Ec=f6uRqFZb4ulbsM%3A&imgrc=f6uRqFZb4ulbsM%3A



Originally posted by Q99
Spider-man vs a team of X-men, multiple of whom have super-agility, one of whom is throwing lightning.



That's universally considered a major piece of PIS. Spider-Man would really struggle to defeat any one of those X-Men 1 v 1, Colossus ordinarily would have Zero issues ripping through Spidey's webbing, Storm even states she couldn't go all out with her Weather abilities indoors, and there's no way he should get the drop on a Psychic the level of Professor X.

Sinious
@ Freshest

Details/Scans of him breaking out of Grey's TK?

Also, you're missing the point. Superheros are much more OP in general as the concept of their stories come from comic books where SW characters are originated from a movie franchise so its natural that their feats are not as impressive as Marvel heroes. However, Star Wars characters have an advantage too, which is the Force.

Maul is tapping into something very unusual for Spiderman. Spidey doesn't really have any defense against the Force other than enduring the attacks but he won't be immune to force choke. Not to mention Maul has a lightsaber and is an excellent fighter who can defend himself against Spiderman's ranged attacks, which is a huge advantage cause Spidey doesn't carry weapons. The only main advantage Spiderman has is hand to hand and it will never come to that.

Since this is an all out fight, Maul can easily abuse his force advantage and apply force choke. The feat you presented shows only strength and not durability.

Q99
Originally posted by Sinious

Maul is tapping into something very unusual for Spiderman.

It's not *that* unusual. Telekinesis is a thing in Marvel. Each individual power that the force grants, Spidey has encountered and fought.

Also, I'm entirely sure he's watched Star Wars, so...



And dodging, which can be done.

Note you almost never see force choke used in combat, even against non-force wielders without precog.



He can defend himself, but not necessarily perfectly.


Also, Peter can use the webbing in a variety of ways.

If they fought in an urban environment, Peter's known for breaking off parts of buildings, webbing chunks, and swinging them around.

Sinious
Originally posted by Q99
It's not *that* unusual. Telekinesis is a thing in Marvel. Each individual power that the force grants, Spidey has encountered and fought.

Meh
lol

Good luck dodging an omnipresent force. Maul isn't gonna send a force wave at his throat. He will create the necessary pressure wherever Spidey's windpipe is.
Define perfect.
He won't be able to do those things while in TK lock.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Sinious
@ Freshest

Details/Scans of him breaking out of Grey's TK?

If I had comicbooks older than my grandparents in my house, I'd love to get them. But I don't, so. As for details, it's Spider-Man fighting the X-Man. He also was at a major disadvantage at the time given the concussion.

We've seen live action Spider-Man lift pieces buildings. erm

Except for the fact that Spider-Man not only knows what Star Wars is, and hates it btw, has seen and combated every single ability Maul has access to. The fact that it comes from "the Force" doesn't make the ability itself somehow different or more powerful than if it came from a mutant.

Because reasons? Marvel is full of combatants, with these things called "swords" that outstripe Maul in every way, and Spider-Man is faster than speeding cars. You're acting like because Maul has a lightsaber, it's somehow more deadly to Spider-Man than say a steel sword that would also kill him just as easily. The point is to not get hit period, and Spider-Man is perfectly capable of that being faster, stronger, and more agile than Maul.

It's almost like gravity exists and it was resting on his neck? It's almost like Maul can't pin Spider-Man down because nothing he can do with the Force is remotely comparable. Almost.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Sinious
Still haven't seen a single argument that rescues Peter from getting choked. thumb up This isn't how debating works. You don't ignore 99 percent of Maul's showings and falsely assume he easily chokes Spider-Man out whose faced stronger, vastly more powerful opponents than Maul just because you really want Maul to win. The force isn't any more special or harder to combat than any other ability. We've seen the order 66 utterly crush the Jedi order with non force users save Vader. They were crushed so badly the few who remained went into hiding. We've also seen far weaker opponents get the better of force users such as Cad Bane defeating Kenobi in hand to hand combat.

Sinious
@ Freshest

Dude, answer me this: do you think Darth Vader would also fall to Spiderman? (Just trying to understand if you're wanking Spidey or lowballing Maul) What the f**k?

Sinious
Originally posted by quanchi112
This isn't how debating works. You don't ignore 99 percent of Maul's showings and falsely assume he easily chokes Spider-Man out whose faced stronger, vastly more powerful opponents than Maul just because you really want Maul to win. The force isn't any more special or harder to combat than any other ability. We've seen the order 66 utterly crush the Jedi order with non force users save Vader. They were crushed so badly the few who remained went into hiding. We've also seen far weaker opponents get the better of force users such as Cad Bane defeating Kenobi in hand to hand combat. This is coming from the guy who openly refuses to acknowledge %99 of Maul's showings cause they're part of the old EU(in a EU forum) ?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Sinious
This is coming from the guy who openly refuses to acknowledge %99 of Maul's showings cause they're part of the old EU(in a EU forum) ? Default rules are canon only. The rest doesn't count but of course you cling to the past.

Sinious
All jokes aside, your avatar, sig, title and location are depressing. You're such a no life that you have 120k posts here all considered as trolling by everyone else in this forum and just in the last couple of weeks, you've spent hours every day trying to annoy people in SW forums just because your favorite ST character lost to Palpatine in another thread. I've seen some retarded things here but your butthurt probably stands alone laughing out loud

quanchi112
Originally posted by Sinious
All jokes aside, your avatar, sig, title and location are depressing. You're such a no life that you have 120k posts here all considered as trolling by everyone else in this forum and just in the last couple of weeks, you've spent hours every day trying to annoy people in SW forums just because your favorite ST character lost to Palpatine in another thread. I've seen some retarded things here but your butthurt probably stands alone laughing out loud I have been here for eight years and am highly actively when I'm online. It's always amusing to hear another nerd say you're a bigger nerd than I am. I'm currently into Star Trek and Star Wars so I debate those topics. I'm a loud poster and I don't ever back down so that tends to people the wrong way. Who cares ? I alwYs will exp,ain't my reasoning and give evidence to back my case whether you agree or not.

I am not butthurt I want to debate the topic. I fight bias at every turn but unlike my opposition I don't tire, show weakness, or stop. I'm one in a trillion.

Sinious
Good for you, buddy. You're clearly not biased and your profile doesn't give you away at all. thumb up

quanchi112
Originally posted by Sinious
Good for you, buddy. You're clearly not biased and your profile doesn't give you away at all. thumb up So having fun with a sig for my one on one debate says I'm biased. Nah. Darth Ant did the same thing. I guess passion to you means bias. I debate the same way across the board. Bias is when your debating principles change from thread to thread or relying on an outlier feat and demanding people prove you wrong. I argue in character based off evidence in every thread.

Sinious
Nah, you had stuff like that in your prof before all that. You just made it more plain after Ant.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Sinious
Nah, you had stuff like that in your prof before all that. You just made it more plain after Ant. Trash talking is what I do. I won't ever stop but that doesn't make me biased as I have already explained. Try to sit back and have more fun. You sound extremely bitter.

Sinious
Your trolling(or whatever you wanna call it) isn't funny though. So I can't really have fun watching you f with people and you ignore context so seriously debating you is pointless as well.

Either get more entertaining or make more sense so our interactions can have some sort of function.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Sinious
@ Freshest

Dude, answer me this: do you think Darth Vader would also fall to Spiderman? (Just trying to understand if you're wanking Spidey or lowballing Maul) What the f**k?
Well for starters, Maul is nowhere near comparable to Vader. Second, yes. Fact is, Spider-Man, and many a comic book hero, are well beyond the scope of Star Wars. I already said this.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Sinious
Your trolling(or whatever you wanna call it) isn't funny though. So I can't really have fun watching you f with people and you ignore context so seriously debating you is pointless as well.

Either get more entertaining or make more sense so our interactions can have some sort of function. I never ignore the context of any scenes. I get it you don't like me but such is life. Whenever you go there's some dirtbag you can't stand. Deal with it and maybe try to prove me wrong. The point of this site is to debate not to say I can't stand this guy I'll ignore him.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Sinious
All jokes aside, your avatar, sig, title and location are depressing. You're such a no life that you have 120k posts here all considered as trolling by everyone else in this forum and just in the last couple of weeks, you've spent hours every day trying to annoy people in SW forums just because your favorite ST character lost to Palpatine in another thread. I've seen some retarded things here but your butthurt probably stands alone laughing out loud



It's really quite sad.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Darth Thor
It's really quite sad. Pick your head up and enjoy life more. There, there.

laughing out loud

Sinious
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Well for starters, Maul is nowhere near comparable to Vader. Second, yes. Fact is, Spider-Man, and many a comic book hero, are well beyond the scope of Star Wars. I already said this. Then its too late to save you, brobeans.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I never ignore the context of any scenes. I get it you don't like me but such is life. Whenever you go there's some dirtbag you can't stand. Deal with it and maybe try to prove me wrong. The point of this site is to debate not to say I can't stand this guy I'll ignore him. I don't think I've ever had nor will have a problem with anyone on KMC so I don't have a problem with you either.

Someone like Palpatine or Yoda is clearly meant to be well above gunslingers. Top SW characters' EU portrayals are almost godlike and even in the movies they're clearly well above anyone with no legit superpowers. You're arguing against this which I find to be pointless.

Ngl, you're pretty good at standing your ground in debates but any sane person can see why a top tier force user can defeat a person who relies on guns and fists. Its like debating with someone who thinks a Clint Eastwood character could defeat Sauron from LOTR. Why would I waste my time with something like that?

Emperordmb
Can you just **** off Quan?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Sinious
Then its too late to save you, brobeans.
I don't think I've ever had nor will have a problem with anyone on KMC so I don't have a problem with you either.

Someone like Palpatine or Yoda is clearly meant to be well above gunslingers. Top SW characters' EU portrayals are almost godlike and even in the movies they're clearly well above anyone with no legit superpowers. You're arguing against this which I find to be pointless.

Ngl, you're pretty good at standing your ground in debates but any sane person can see why a top tier force user can defeat a person who relies on guns and fists. Its like debating with someone who thinks a Clint Eastwood character could defeat Sauron from LOTR. Why would I waste my time with something like that? No, you can't make blanketed statements like that and expect that to pass go. The skill of every combatant matters not some vague baseless claim that they are beyond gunslingers. Jango Fett doesn't have superpowers nor does Pre Vizlsa or Cad Bane. Some of them killed and beat jedi. Jango was a legit challenge to Windu who took down the dark master of the Sith. If they aren't even beyond guys with no powers from their own universe how do you expect that generalized statement to apply to other fictional characters.

I tend to look at how characters are portrayed against other highly skilled characters who are armed with their best. If Yoda was beyond the clones he wouldn't bring Kenobi to the temple when they weren't in higher numbers. It's clearly an issue. Yoda also needed help from the clones in the first episode of the clone wars from the clones who said he wouldn't see that coming despite Yoda's precognition, etc.

The final nail in the coffin is when a larger group of droids were porrayed as greater than a decently sized group of Jedi including most of the best save Yoda. Dooku sat back and knew they'd be overwhelmed and we've seen even Jar Jar Binks stumble into a battlefield and take droids out who are awful.

This is evidence that supports my viewpoints not just a generalized baseless statement not founded on really anything.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Can you just **** off Quan? Why ?

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Can you just **** off Quan?


Ah the wish of most Star Wars fans. Oh and most of KMC.

Sinious
Originally posted by quanchi112
No, you can't make blanketed statements like that and expect that to pass go. The skill of every combatant matters not some vague baseless claim that they are beyond gunslingers. Jango Fett doesn't have superpowers nor does Pre Vizlsa or Cad Bane. Some of them killed and beat jedi. Jango was a legit challenge to Windu who took down the dark master of the Sith. If they aren't even beyond guys with no powers from their own universe how do you expect that generalized statement to apply to other fictional characters.

I tend to look at how characters are portrayed against other highly skilled characters who are armed with their best. If Yoda was beyond the clones he wouldn't bring Kenobi to the temple when they weren't in higher numbers. It's clearly an issue. Yoda also needed help from the clones in the first episode of the clone wars from the clones who said he wouldn't see that coming despite Yoda's precognition, etc.

The final nail in the coffin is when a larger group of droids were porrayed as greater than a decently sized group of Jedi including most of the best save Yoda. Dooku sat back and knew they'd be overwhelmed and we've seen even Jar Jar Binks stumble into a battlefield and take droids out who are awful.

This is evidence that supports my viewpoints not just a generalized baseless statement not founded on really anything.

PT is full of inconsistencies like that. Doesn't really refute my point. Again, you're failing to see the context of all these events. PIS has often allowed a character to defeat or at least survive a much stronger opponent. You yourself admitted that the encounters between Ezra/Kanan and Vader are pretty stupid. In versus threads, we usually assume an arena type all out fight where PIS doesn't happen. So with that said, Palpatine would wreck Khan and you shouldn't really feel bad about that.

Also, have you ever heard of this thing called Vaapad?

quanchi112
Originally posted by Sinious
PT is full of inconsistencies like that. Doesn't really refute my point. Again, you're failing to see the context of all these events. PIS has often allowed a character to defeat or at least survive a much stronger opponent. You yourself admitted that the encounters between Ezra/Kanan and Vader are pretty stupid. In versus threads, we usually assume an arena type all out fight where PIS doesn't happen. So with that said, Palpatine would wreck Khan and you shouldn't really feel bad about that.

Also, have you ever heard of this thing called Vaapad? You do not have a point. You made a generalized biased statement that I can disprove easily in Star Wars canon. Pis is ignoring facts and pretending it shouldn't count. They are stupid but they do count. IMO Vader should maul them and they should come up with reasons why he doesn't finish them not that they find the opening to force push him onto his ass. Khan in his Klingon scene leaves the enterprise crew in utter amazement just watching him. Khan then disarms Spock and has them completely at his mercy before he gives himself up to get his crew back. That's the kind of treatment Vader IMO should get over those two dweebs IMO but that isn't what happened.

I've heard about Star Wars fanatics using pis, vapaad, and other ideas as a means to discount facts or downplay them because they don't line up with that posters preconceived notions.

Sinious
Again, context is your friend. Try to apply critical thinking into your life for a change.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Sinious
Again, context is your friend. Try to apply critical thinking into your life for a change. I do apply critical thinking but I won't dismiss facts, feats, etc. and make blanketed useless statements like Jedi are beyond guys with guns and watch the battle on geonosis scene and say, nuh uh. Anyway ever saying the word pis is showing bias as their perception or opinion isn't a fact but the scene is.

Darth Abonis
I'm ashamed by thread is used for such pointless bickering.

Dark-Kenshin
Pete has ample experience against telepaths and telekinetic foes, arguably superior precog and has come out on top against opponents much stronger and faster. If the fight is in-character, he'd clock the infamous Sith warrior before he knew what hit him. Lord Maul wakes up drugged and in a Shield containment cell awaiting interrogation. Out of character boils down to who can hit who first and range.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Bump.

Sinious
Still not seeing what keeps Maul from breaking his neck. smile

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Morals. smile

FreshestSlice
The same thing that stopped all the other TK users in Marvel. That and Maul being a joke.

chilled monkey
Originally posted by Sinious
Still not seeing what keeps Maul from breaking his neck. smile

1. The fact that Maul prefers to kill with his lightsaber. Sure he can and will use telekinesis but it's not normally his opening move, especially against a single foe.

2. Spiderman's durability/resilience means that Maul can't just snap his neck like a twig as he would a regular person. Maul would need to concentrate REAL hard.

3. The fact that if he tries he'll get a face-full of webbing.

Anyway here is the match. The actual fight starts at 6:45 if you want to skip the fans talking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q2uzIv4nhg

So there we have it.

Sinious
SIDIOUS' CREEPY LAUGHTER love

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by chilled monkey
1. The fact that Maul prefers to kill with his lightsaber. Sure he can and will use telekinesis but it's not normally his opening move, especially against a single foe.

2. Spiderman's durability/resilience means that Maul can't just snap his neck like a twig as he would a regular person. Maul would need to concentrate REAL hard.

3. The fact that if he tries he'll get a face-full of webbing.

Anyway here is the match. The actual fight starts at 6:45 if you want to skip the fans talking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q2uzIv4nhg

So there we have it.
Oh shit, this guy is still alive.

chilled monkey
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Oh shit, this guy is still alive.

Aww, I'm glad to see you again too.

Anyway, that was a great fight. Super Power Beat Down is awesome!

Revanchiste

chilled monkey
Still fun to watch though.

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