Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

No flying or tri beams for Tony.

Going by the trailer, they seem to be kicking his a$$. However, It'll probably end up being a weaker suit.

So sick

Cap/Bucky all the way..

but reserve the right to change my mind on next may

That was badass huh? They were taking it to his ass for damn sure. But IM's durability wins this I think.

IM should win. He can take tanks, small armies and even other iron man suita.

It seems he was dumbed down for the movie. But with out CIS/PIS Stark should win.

And just for the record Iblike CA much better than IM

I imagine they try try to talk it out each time and things get personal so theres a lotta up close and personal fistfights. And if I was gonna pick a spot to jump an opponent inside a metal uit that could fly and shoot lazers and rockets. I would pick a heavily enclosed space where me and my buddy could use our best assets to out advantage. Namely, skill, sppeed, teamwork is amazing as well. Passing Caps shield back and forth to choigh through the armor while striking various joints and keeping his center of gravity and balance off.

It's actually refreshing to see IM taken down a notch. He already got a huge bump up in power just so they could make him match Thor, and if that wasn't enough they bumped him up even more to knock out the Hulk.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Going by the trailer, they seem to be kicking his a$$. However, It'll probably end up being a weaker suit.

Looks like Bleeding Edge. So nah, not weak.

We don't know the context. They might've hit him with EMP or Vision messed him up like in comics. Or something else.

Barring plot or Tony holding back, he should still win this. Let's be real. A single barrage of Tony's mini shoulder rockets should be enough to take out one of them at least, and he doesn't even need to actively aim to use it. IM going all out should kill them both. But in Civil War it's probably going to be a situation of Tony holding back in the movie, due to some lingering friendship with Steve, or residual guilt over the Ultron thing or something.

You mean the tranquilizer darts he fired in IM 1?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You mean the tranquilizer darts he fired in IM 1?

No, the mini missiles he fired to destroy like half a dozen Chitauri fliers at once during the New York fight in Avengers.

Around 1:30 mark

PTthaChCseU

Originally posted by FrothByte
It's actually refreshing to see IM taken down a notch. He already got a huge bump up in power just so they could make him match Thor, and if that wasn't enough they bumped him up even more to knock out the Hulk. Plot device armor that was able to constantly reform. Hulk is the powerhouse of the Avengers.

They're making Tony job haaarrdd

Originally posted by FrothByte
It's actually refreshing to see IM taken down a notch. He already got a huge bump up in power just so they could make him match Thor, and if that wasn't enough they bumped him up even more to knock out the Hulk.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
That was badass huh? They were taking it to his ass for damn sure. But IM's durability wins this I think.

Cap/bucky have some sick durability without any armor..

Cap fighting Ultron v2 was the closest weve seen to how he handles a fully armored sentient opponent with lasers and all. He handled it damn well. If we assume Buckys arm can rip shreds off tony and caps shield can do big damage at the joints. Im gonna say Team, in spite of Whedon and Blacks attempt to cement Tony as an Expert martial artist, and capable of KOing Hulk in 5 minutes flat.

To be fair, he KO'd the Hulk by suckerpunching him while he was distracted. And that was after basically dropping a building on him.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
No, the mini missiles he fired to destroy like half a dozen Chitauri fliers at once during the New York fight in Avengers.

Around 1:30 mark

PTthaChCseU

And the mini missiles in IM2. Come on guys I mean the trailer says it all imo, IM "cap you seem a little tense" later, Cap "he is my friend" IM "so was I...". So lets wait and see, as for now imo, Tonys arsenal > Cap and Bucky.

Originally posted by Utrigita
And the mini missiles in IM2. Come on guys I mean the trailer says it all imo, IM "cap you seem a little tense" later, Cap "he is my friend" IM "so was I...". So lets wait and see, as for now imo, Tonys arsenal > Cap and Bucky.

It really depends on the scenario though. If we're thinking exact same scene we saw in that trailer, they were in a pretty tiny room which means IM isn't as maneuverable. OP also states he cannot fly.

For IM to utilize his missiles he needs to create distance because he needs time to get those in place. But when Bucky and Cap (who are both far faster on the ground than IM is) are both up in his face whacking him with considerable strength, I doubt he'll have enough time to get his missiles to bear.

Even his repulsor blasts take a split second to charge up and fire, and from what we see in the trailer Cap and Bucky are just all over him that he's unable to take a proper shot.

So we need to figure out how this match starts. Are they at distance? Then IM can unleash his full arsenal. Are they face to face? Then IM probably doesn't get a chance to use his weaponry properly and will need to resort to h2h.

Originally posted by FrothByte
It really depends on the scenario though. If we're thinking exact same scene we saw in that trailer, they were in a pretty tiny room which means IM isn't as maneuverable. OP also states he cannot fly.

For IM to utilize his missiles he needs to create distance because he needs time to get those in place. But when Bucky and Cap (who are both far faster on the ground than IM is) are both up in his face whacking him with considerable strength, I doubt he'll have enough time to get his missiles to bear.

Even his repulsor blasts take a split second to charge up and fire, and from what we see in the trailer Cap and Bucky are just all over him that he's unable to take a proper shot.

So we need to figure out how this match starts. Are they at distance? Then IM can unleash his full arsenal. Are they face to face? Then IM probably doesn't get a chance to use his weaponry properly and will need to resort to h2h.

While I agree completely with the scenario being a factor, my main point is that people are jumping to conclusions while not knowing the full context of the actual fight. In the particular scene from the trailer, what stops IM from just going ham, flying out of there and blow the building apart? His friendship (or former friendship) with Cap.

Same reason why Thor simply did not tear IM apart. PIS.

But like we said, as per OP IM can't fly in this match. So there goes that option.

One thing Cap and Bucky do have going for them that helps them a lot is that, based just already from what we see in the trailer, they are very good at fighting together as a team and keeping the pressure on their opponent. That being said, Iron Man is still much stronger than either of those two, and should simply be able to outmuscle them at least long enough to get one of his heavier weapons into play.

Originally posted by Utrigita
While I agree completely with the scenario being a factor, my main point is that people are jumping to conclusions while not knowing the full context of the actual fight. In the particular scene from the trailer, what stops IM from just going ham, flying out of there and blow the building apart? His friendship (or former friendship) with Cap.

Ironman can't fly in this battle. I though I made this clear.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
One thing Cap and Bucky do have going for them that helps them a lot is that, based just already from what we see in the trailer, they are very good at fighting together as a team and keeping the pressure on their opponent. That being said, Iron Man is still much stronger than either of those two, and should simply be able to outmuscle them at least long enough to get one of his heavier weapons into play.

I agree about IM outmuscling them, but it's kinda hard for IM to outmuscle either one of them if he can't land a hit. Heck from the trailer it seems like he couldn't even launch an attack before he gets hit again.

Adding in this, for all we know buckys arm is just as strong or stronger then iron mans and there is no reason to assume otherwise. We see it can rip his arc reactor out.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Ironman can't fly in this battle. I though I made this clear.

I'm aware hence why I mentioned the trailer, which I also made quite clear.

"In the particular scene "from the trailer"

Yes whatever CIS is involved is great and all but point stands he's in his best suit and they taking him down.

I see all these missile posts, it was pretty obvious that cap and bucky picked a place for tactical advantage so there is that. And this is not impossible for the team, just very difficult.

In the same scenario as trailer, they can win. Out inopen, even without flight he should decimate.

And with the rockets, Im no expert but I am a Marine who is somewhat familiar with explosives and such. Most consist of a launch motor, flight motor, guidance system and warhead. The warheads are usually rigged to be unable to explode until a certain distance has been covered so they probably wouldnt work in that scenario assuming Tony's rockets are like conventional ones.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I agree about IM outmuscling them, but it's kinda hard for IM to outmuscle either one of them if he can't land a hit. Heck from the trailer it seems like he couldn't even launch an attack before he gets hit again.

He doesn't really need to hit them. With the strength he has, just a very hard shove should do it. As I mentioned in another thread, even Tony's suitcase armour is strong enough that he can kick a car with enough force to send it skidding several yards. One of his weakest suits, based on what we are shown, yet it still displays significantly greater strength than either Bucky or Steve have up to this point. At the end of the day, Tony still has the advantage in strength, durability and weapons, even if it is two-on-one and in an enclosed environment.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
I see all these missile posts, it was pretty obvious that cap and bucky picked a place for tactical advantage so there is that. And this is not impossible for the team, just very difficult.

In the same scenario as trailer, they can win. Out inopen, even without flight he should decimate.

And with the rockets, Im no expert but I am a Marine who is somewhat familiar with explosives and such. Most consist of a launch motor, flight motor, guidance system and warhead. The warheads are usually rigged to be unable to explode until a certain distance has been covered so they probably wouldnt work in that scenario assuming Tony's rockets are like conventional ones.

Given that it is Stark, the chances are more than likely that they do not actually work in the conventional manner. And even if they do, it would be a lot like Tony to put in some kind of failsafe override to circumvent that in case of emergencies.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Yes whatever CIS is involved is great and all but point stands he's in his best suit and they taking him down.

It's a bit early to make that claim IMO. We see a few seconds from a larger fight, without any context, from a movie that only comes out next year. For all we know the very next moment after they had cut away in the trailer, Tony knocks them both back, or nails one with a proper repulsor blast etc. or alternatively, the very next combined hits from Bucky and Cap KO him. We don't know how that fight pans out yet.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
No, the mini missiles he fired to destroy like half a dozen Chitauri fliers at once during the New York fight in Avengers.

Around 1:30 mark

PTthaChCseU

Forgot about that. Yeah, he has plenty of ranged options.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
It's a bit early to make that claim IMO. We see a few seconds from a larger fight, without any context, from a movie that only comes out next year. For all we know the very next moment after they had cut away in the trailer, Tony knocks them both back, or nails one with a proper repulsor blast etc. or alternatively, the very next combined hits from Bucky and Cap KO him. We don't know how that fight pans out yet.

Trailer is PIS. Rogers and Bucky can't hurt Iron Man, hand beams will do the trick.

Originally posted by Placidity
Trailer is PIS. Rogers and Bucky can't hurt Iron Man, hand beams will do the trick.

Oh coarse they can, the first generation whiplash suit hurt him..

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Oh coarse they can, the first generation whiplash suit hurt him..

And Rogers and bucky each have a mechanized suit, that can cut a F1 car apart in a single strike and burn through concrete? Even then the inferior Iron Man suit toke three direct hits (without damage to Tony) and a prolonged exposure when Tony wrapped the cables around his suit to get close to Whiplash, still without damage on the inside.

Oh and buckys arm is chopped liver?

Originally posted by Placidity
Trailer is PIS. Rogers and Bucky can't hurt Iron Man, hand beams will do the trick.

How is it PIS? Both caps shield and buckys arm are stonger than IM. Not only that, them rocking Tony back and forth should be able to knock his ass out with or without suit.

Usually when a combatant is massively outclassed then I vote against them. This duo can pull it off, not all the time. But Tony is not a great fighter, hes arrogant and...yeah.

Team 4/10

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
buckys arm

No, it isn't.

Ironman.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Oh and buckys arm is chopped liver?

Did I imply that? No, I'm pointing out that using whiplash as a measuring stick from my perspective is wrong, since neither cap or Bucky has access to it or even something similar. But I guess you have a scene of Buckys arm cutting a car in half?

Originally posted by Utrigita
Did I imply that? No, I'm pointing out that using whiplash as a measuring stick from my perspective is wrong, since neither cap or Bucky has access to it or even something similar. But I guess you have a scene of Buckys arm cutting a car in half?

Cap's fists and arms are strong enough to punch through a submarine window, tear a log in half with minimal effort, and hold a car from falling off a cliff. Bucky's mechanized arm is even stronger.

While a hit or two won't do serious damage to IM, he'll definitely feel them. And repeated blows can damage IM.

The only chance, Cap has is to properly utilize his shield before, IM separates it from him. Once, IM divorces Cap from his shield,it's game over for, Cap. As for Bucky, well he doesn't have a shield made of Vibranium so he's nothing more than a distraction. No matter how durable Cap is, IMs arsenal is more than enough to kill him ten times over. I think Cap is a better strategist and fighter but all of that means dick if he doesn't have a shield to defend himself with.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
No, it isn't.

Sorry, what I should have said is his arm as just as durable so far and strong enough that his fingers were digging into starks suit. So bucky may not be as stong, but the armbitself seems to be as capable as IM's

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
The only chance, Cap has is to properly utilize his shield before, IM separates it from him. Once, IM divorces Cap from his shield,it's game over for, Cap. As for Bucky, well he doesn't have a shield made of Vibranium so he's nothing more than a distraction. No matter how durable Cap is, IMs arsenal is more than enough to kill him ten times over. I think Cap is a better strategist and fighter but all of that means dick if he doesn't have a shield to defend himself with.

Ok question: How is IM going to divorce Cap from his shield or even hit Bucky when both are plenty fast and skilled enough to duck and dodge his blows? He'll also be preoccupied getting pummeled by Cap and Bucky, because let's face it: IM is durable but he's not so durable that he can simply ignore and brush off those attacks.

The only way for him to utilize his full arsenal is to create distance, but that would be pretty hard to do since he's not allowed to fly in this match and he's not exactly a fast runner.

IM's flight is part of what makes him so mobile and agile. Without it he's pretty clunky. Thor had no problem avoiding IM's hits when he didn't use his propulsion system, and I'm pretty sure Cap and Bucky are faster than Thor.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Ok question: How is IM going to divorce Cap from his shield or even hit Bucky when both are plenty fast and skilled enough to duck and dodge his blows? He'll also be preoccupied getting pummeled by Cap and Bucky, because let's face it: IM is durable but he's not so durable that he can simply ignore and brush off those attacks.

The only way for him to utilize his full arsenal is to create distance, but that would be pretty hard to do since he's not allowed to fly in this match and he's not exactly a fast runner.

IM's flight is part of what makes him so mobile and agile. Without it he's pretty clunky. Thor had no problem avoiding IM's hits when he didn't use his propulsion system, and I'm pretty sure Cap and Bucky are faster than Thor.


Cap has proved to be frivolous in the decisions he makes with his shield ( in the movies). Either way, it would only be a matter of time before, Stark would bait Cap into making a poor decision. If that didn't work, he could just catch it. Cap is always getting separated from his shield in the movies, but that's a good thing because it proves he doesn't need to rely on a single object to be relevant.

As for, IMs durability we can argue all of the inconsistencies that have been shown in the movies, but one thing we can't argue is that he has been able to take on a raged out, Hulk. Regardless of how strong, Cap and Bucky are, there is no way they are going to peak, Iron Mans endurance levels with their bare fists.

Just because, Iron Man, can't fly doesn't mean he can't use his propulsion to dodge. Either, way, i don't think he needs to. You suggest that he needs to create distance to take advantage of his full arsenal...,why? He's obviously durable enough to tank, rockets. He could simply fire a few rockets in the ground at his feet and quickly KO, Cap and Bucky or atleast daze them enough to where he strangle one to death.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
Cap has proved to be frivolous in the decisions he makes with his shield ( in the movies). Either way, it would only be a matter of time before, Stark would bait Cap into making a poor decision. If that didn't work, he could just catch it. Cap is always getting separated from his shield in the movies, but that's a good thing because it proves he doesn't need to rely on a single object to be relevant.

As for, IMs durability we can argue all of the inconsistencies that have been shown in the movies, but one thing we can't argue is that he has been able to take on a raged out, Hulk. Regardless of how strong, Cap and Bucky are, there is no way they are going to peak, Iron Mans endurance levels with their bare fists.

Just because, Iron Man, can't fly doesn't mean he can't use his propulsion to dodge. Either, way, i don't think he needs to. You suggest that he needs to create distance to take advantage of his full arsenal...,why? He's obviously durable enough to tank, rockets. He could simply fire a few rockets in the ground at his feet and quickly KO, Cap and Bucky or atleast daze them enough to where he strangle one to death.

When has IM ever taken on an enraged Hulk with his normal armor? He doesn't have his hulkbuster armor in this round.

And who said anything about Bucky and Cap hitting IM with their bare fists? Cap is using his shield and Bucky is using his robot arm.

You'd have to provide a feat of IM's rockets going off in point blank range. I don't think rockets and missiles work like that. I'll leave it up to the OP to determine whether "no flying" means no propulsion systems at all. But if IM is completely grounded in this fight without propulsion, he'll have an extremely hard time finding an opening with both Cap and Bucky unloading on him.

Lol at people thinking he gets his hulk buster armor here.

Good call froth.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Cap's fists and arms are strong enough to punch through a submarine window, tear a log in half with minimal effort, and hold a car from falling off a cliff. Bucky's mechanized arm is even stronger.

While a hit or two won't do serious damage to IM, he'll definitely feel them. And repeated blows can damage IM.

While that is all well and good it doesn't change that comparing Whiplash, who's whole thing was cutting, to Cap and Bucky that are mainly using blunt force doesn't seem the best comparison imho.

Oh well, somehow they are taking him down so you are low balling their strength, and like I said you are not giving Buckys arm the credit it deserves.

Exactly - somehow.

In comics, his armor was already messed up during the final confrontation.

Vision? EMP? Too early to guess right.

Bucky's arm can't do shit to IM, as seen in comics. It can knock him around a bit at best, because he doesn't weigh much.

Yea in the comics for sure, but here it's right up there.

We don't know the context.

The context is me up ur ass

Using that bionic arm while carrying the shield is the best chance they've got.

I'd like to see the arm detach from WS - yes, it can do that in the books - and get Tony by surprise...

I'm sure they are going to use their brains first against overconfident Tony.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Oh well, somehow they are taking him down so you are low balling their strength, and like I said you are not giving Buckys arm the credit it deserves.

Did I say anything to even imply that? No. I said that Whiplash isn't comparable, for various reasons, unless ofcause you have footage of Bucky using his arm to cut a car in half.

Rogers/Bucky punching the suit doesn't actually hurt Tony at all even if it looks like he is bucking under their blows.

Tony was hit by a tank round in his Mark III from the first movie and it didn't hurt him. His suit has since been taking hits far beyond what Rogers/Bucky can produce.

Lets get back to reality, Iron Man is several tiers above these street levellers.

Street levellers? I wouldn't call being able to easily lift and hold a motorcycle with 3 women anove your head as street level. Neither is holding a car from falling off a cliff or tearing a log with your bare hands.

Yes Captain America is a street leveller, even by comic book standards, which is stronger than movie.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t577922.html

Originally posted by Placidity
Yes Captain America is a street leveller, even by comic book standards, which is stronger than movie.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t577922.html

Comicbook Cap is not in discussion here. We're talking movie Cap. And though Comicbook Cap has more feats, he doesn't have as impressive strength feats as movie Cap. CBM Cap is peak human, just like Batman. Movie Cap has legit superhuman strength. Not that high, but still superhuman.

Both comic and movie versions of Steve Rogers are low meta, actually. There is NO definition of "street leveler", actually - even Spider-Man or Wolverine get called that. So nothing to get butthurt about.

Anyway, even with Cap being a low meta, Plac is right - Stark is still several tiers above him.

I am curious to see how Bucky trying to pull out Tony's arc reactor in the movie actually plays out. Unless Tony magically forgets that it also doubles as arguably his most powerful repulsor, Bucky might lose a finger or two.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


Both comic and movie versions of Steve Rogers are low meta, actually. There is NO definition of "street leveler", actually - even Spider-Man or Wolverine get called that. So nothing to get butthurt about.

Anyway, even with Cap being a low meta, Plac is right - Stark is still several tiers above him.

In strength, yes. Do you mind telling me how exactly he's going to hit Cap and Bucky in close range?

Does anyone have any definitive proof that Ironmans arm is stronger then Buckys? And the Thor fight don't count cause he was amped 400%.

Yeah, the drunken fight Iron Man has with Rhodey in IM 2. They were clobbering each other with heavy pieces of gym equipment, cracking the floors etc, and at one point Rhodey hits Tony so hard he crashes through a reinforced concrete ceiling/floor and into the ceiling above it hard enough to crater that too (and the suits were shown to be on par, strength-wise, as they were tussling). In comparison, Bucky's arm's best feats so far are ripping out a steering column and a car door, both things Tony could do easily. So based on feats we have so far, Iron Man is stronger.

This is a shitfaced Tony vs a total noob Rhodey, and this whole thing is more of a drunken scuffle as opposed to a serious, bloodlusted fight. Yet they are casually absolutely wrecking things like concrete, metal etc.

hcygKAvZ37I

Yet in Avengers 2, Cap 1-arm throws Ultron through a huge concrete pillar.

2_5tY5ObGwo

45 secs.

I don't think I've seen a feat from Tony on that level, personally.

That's more than a simple "one arm throw". He twists/spins his body somewhat to create more momentum as he slams his arm into Ultron, not to mention he used some of Ultron's own momentum as he was coming past him. Still extremely impressive, but that was not accomplished purely through the power of one arm. Also, Cap was clearly straining very hard in his tussle with Ultron. Tony and Rhodey were casually wrecking things during their fight. For example, around 1:10, just the force of IM's knee hitting the floor relatively hard was already cracking it. Or around 1:50 where Tony easily puts Rhodey through a marble counter with one arm. And remember, he not only would need to have the strength to do that to begin with, but to do it while Rhodey is resisting him.

Bucky and Steve both have feats damaging concrete. Cap with his Ultron toss and Bucky punching a fist sized crater in a road during WS. But neither of them are shown doing it with anywhere near the same level of ease as someone wearing one of Tony's suits can. But what is more important to me from that clip is actually that none of what they were doing was actually really damaging each other. So even if Bucky has comparable strength in his arm, he is still going to have to work extremely hard to hurt IM.

Ok, but how much do you think that relatively small amount of momentum can really add to tossing a 7 foot robot through a concrete pillar? I doubt it'd be that much of a factor.

Anyway, personally I think the Ultron fight shows that Cap can hang with an Ironman style enemy fairly well. He could handle his strength somewhat and he was able to pierce Ultron's armor with a shield toss. Cap and Bucky should be able to pull off the scene from the trailer and eventually beat through his armor.

Thinking about it, even Tony's IM1 cave suit was strong enough to bash through a heavy, thick metal door with just a few hits.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ok, but how much do you think that relatively small amount of momentum can really add to tossing a 7 foot robot through a concrete pillar? I doubt it'd be that much of a factor.

Anyway, personally I think the Ultron fight shows that Cap can hang with an Ironman style enemy fairly well. He could handle his strength somewhat and he was able to pierce Ultron's armor with a shield toss. Cap and Bucky should be able to pull off the scene from the trailer and eventually beat through his armor.

Question wasn't whether Cap could hang with him. I personally think that Cap's speed, h2h skill and agility advantage alone would allow him to at least hang with Tony in melee for a while. The question here specifically was about who was stronger, based on feats, and the Iron Man suits still hold the advantage there.

Barring plot device, or Tony holding back in that scene, Cap and Bucky would both die before they could beat through his armour to any relevant degree.

Also, you should not underestimate what a bit of momentum can achieve, especially if someone is a highly skilled martial artist like Steve is. Just look at a few Aikido vids and see comparatively small people toss far larger people around, by using their own strength and momentum against them in the right way. To do what Steve did would still require an absolute immense level of strength, but it wasn't done purely by the strength of one arm. But anyway, I really meant he got more extra rotational force from his hips that would have aided in the move. Any experienced fighter/martial artist will tell you that a lot of your actual striking power comes from there.

Also, another thing to consider, seeing as you brought up Steve. Cap held the weight of a what kind of looked like a VW Golf for a few seconds, with visible strain. Tony, with like 20% power in his IM1 armour, caught and held an Audi SUV in the air. So that is as direct a strength comparison as you can get between the two of them at least.

I don't think anyone here stated that Cap is stronger or as strong as IM. Simply that Cap (with shield) is strong enough to hurt IM in the long run.

I was just drawing a comparison in response to the concrete pillar toss feat. I believe that both Captain America with his shield and Bucky's arm could do damage in the long run but, based on the durability Tony's suits have shown, it is going to take them quite a while to do debilitating levels of damage to it. And I just feel that Tony should be able to force an opening big enough to utilise some of his more powerful weapons before they could manage it, even with the OP restrictions placed on him.

This match is ultimately two low level superhumans with strong, yet still melee (unless someone tosses the shield), weapons versus a virtual walking tank. Better than a tank actually, considering what happened to the one Iron Man actually encountered.

IM doesn't need flight or beams to beat this team. He is a lot stronger and more durable then these guys. Also has those tiny missiles that took out a room full of people without killing them.

Team 1 needs literal bad writing or a weakened and holding back Tony Stark to have a chance. Flight and tri beams were disabled. Logic and reason were not.

Also people need to remember the movie hasn't come out yet. We have no idea the context of the situation, we have no idea if Tony was weakened or what was going on. Thus until the movie is out the scene quite literally can't be used to argue these guys could beat IM. Not unless someone somehow scored a super advanced copy of the movie.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I don't think anyone here stated that Cap is stronger or as strong as IM. Simply that Cap (with shield) is strong enough to hurt IM in the long run.



Good post

The problem is, even if Tony doesn't get seriously hurt with a single hit from the team, he does get knocked around, not a lot but enough so that it's difficult for him to retaliate. Bucky and Cap are both faster than IM, and both of them hitting him at the same time means he keeps getting hit before he can retaliate.

And although his armor is tough, I don't see it lasting forever against Cap and Bucky. If this ends up in melee, I don't see IM being able to launch a good enough counter attack. Won't get the chance to launch a counter attack.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Does anyone have any definitive proof that Ironmans arm is stronger then Buckys? And the Thor fight don't count cause he was amped 400%.

Catching an Audi SUV (Q7, 2.5tons) and holding it for a bit while at around 10% power (IM2008).

Originally posted by FrothByte
In strength, yes. Do you mind telling me how exactly he's going to hit Cap and Bucky in close range?

With his speed and reflexes which are fast enough to dodge an M1A1 Abrams shell (IM2008)

Originally posted by Robtard
Catching an Audi SUV (Q7, 2.5tons) and holding it for a bit while at around 10% power (IM2008).

Good call but thats the whole suit working together, in the new clip we see Cap holding a helicopter from taking off. And we know that arm is stronger then Cap.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Good call but thats the whole suit working together, in the new clip we see Cap holding a helicopter from taking off. And we know that arm is stronger then Cap.

Also of note: In that scene he caught the SUV by the front and held it straight out in front on him, which as a weight lifter yourself you know not having a weight distributed evenly makes it many times harder; this was while he was on very low power due to using the his jerry-jigged cave-built reactor.

IM on paper should be able to turn both Cap and Bucky into a bloody pulp. There's going to be context behind that scene of why they're kicking his ass, be it Tony's hurt, holding back or they outright amped Cap and Bucky even more in this film. Won't know until we watch. But Cap/Bucky lose as of Winter Soldier/AoU feats.

I though he was right under it.

Nah, he caught it by the nose and held it at around a 130-140 degree angle until his suit started to fail.

edit: Just watched the scene, he wasn't at 10%, he was at 19% according to Jarvis. So he can hold 2.5 tons at a weird angle for a small amount of time while under 20% power on a failing reactor in his first combat-ready suit.

Ok cool

Here's a capture:

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee289/GFO106/im20081.png

In Age of Ultron, didn't cap toss Ultron so hard he smashed right thru a highway support column? Or punch him? Not sure if it was a punch or toss, lemme review clips...

Edit. Looks like a punch, but can be a push.... They were in a moving truck at the time, tho.

Iron Man vapes them both from a different country as he gets a blowjob from two Swedish supermodels.

"zomg, look at the totes awesome scene in the trailer that we have no context for... durrrrr, time to make a thread"


what a stupid ass thread.

Winter Soldier could solo.

Lock this thread.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Comicbook Cap is not in discussion here. We're talking movie Cap. And though Comicbook Cap has more feats, he doesn't have as impressive strength feats as movie Cap. CBM Cap is peak human, just like Batman. Movie Cap has legit superhuman strength. Not that high, but still superhuman.

Sorry what? Comic Captain America has thrown his shield through a ****ing Tiger Tank, broken down a steel door and pulled a helicopter out of the air. Not to mention that the weight he uses while training is 1100 lbs...

Originally posted by Mindset
Winter Soldier could solo.

Lock this thread.

To be fair Winter Soldier totally could solo. All he needs to say is "I feel I have a legitimate chance at victory" and bam, Tony Stark quite literally dies from laughter. For decades scientists study this case..trying to make heads or tails over it. Did he perhaps have some undiagnosed condition? Was it perhaps some new kind of alien weapon?

After many years and many billions spent they were forced to face one conclusion: he indeed did perish via too much laughter. His heart, such that is was, just couldn't take the strain. Even is brain couldn't grasp that Bucky could even believe the things he was saying and I think even with the reality gem and mind gem combined he'd still struggle.

Twas not beauty..but laughter that killed the beast.

Originally posted by Robtard
IM on paper should be able to turn both Cap and Bucky into a bloody pulp. There's going to be context behind that scene of why they're kicking his ass, be it Tony's hurt, holding back or they outright amped Cap and Bucky even more in this film. Won't know until we watch. But Cap/Bucky lose as of Winter Soldier/AoU feats.

This.

Some people are getting a bit carried away from a few seconds of fighting in a trailer for a movie coming out next year. If you go by the feats from the 7 full films (2 Cap, 3 IM and 2 Avengers) we actually have for them, Tony wins every day.

As to the trailer, big chance the next one is going to show clips of Iron Man beating up on Bucky and Steve in return, just to stir up more hype and conversation. And that would mean just as little if it happens IMO. As we have all seen before, trailers can be very deceptive, so best wait for the actual film before drawing serious conclusions from it.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
As we have all seen before, trailers can be very deceptive, so best wait for the actual film before drawing serious conclusions from it.

This.

Been trying to say that, but people won't listen.

Yeah, I feel like unless we see something really definitive in the next trailers (like Tony lying unconscious while Cap holds his broken helmet, or alternatively, Tony beating Bucky to death with his own metal arm or something) I am not going to make any predictions about that film. Too many unknown factors involved which could affect the result. And the chances of them showing us anything like that is virtually nil.

IM will use the sonic device he used in the comic, no doubt about it.

Yea, maybe.

Meh, when we saw the trailer for Avengers and saw IM matching Thor in a fight, we though "Meh, that's probably not an accurate shot of the fight. No way can IM match Thor".

Then we saw the movie, and though IM was indeed amped to 400% he was still matching Thor for most of the fight... which means the movie did something that should not have been.

Just saying, these movies seem to be trying to get everyone to close enough power levels.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Meh, when we saw the trailer for Avengers and saw IM matching Thor in a fight, we though "Meh, that's probably not an accurate shot of the fight. No way can IM match Thor".

Then we saw the movie, and though IM was indeed amped to 400% he was still matching Thor for most of the fight... which means the movie did something that should not have been.

Just saying, these movies seem to be trying to get everyone to close enough power levels.

Iron Man bench pressed the back of the Audi after he put it down as well. Captain America was holding a helicopter from flying off in the new clip. Iron Man should not be able to keep up with Captain America or WS in hand to hand speed. He uses magnets to with his shield couldn't Iron Man take advantage of that like when he was trying to save the people falling from Air Force One?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Meh, when we saw the trailer for Avengers and saw IM matching Thor in a fight, we though "Meh, that's probably not an accurate shot of the fight. No way can IM match Thor".

Then we saw the movie, and though IM was indeed amped to 400% he was still matching Thor for most of the fight... which means the movie did something that should not have been.

Just saying, these movies seem to be trying to get everyone to close enough power levels.

Yet it doesn't change the fact that we will only know the truth about this specific situation once Civil War comes out.

And the Iron Man vs Thor fight is not the best example either, considering Tony would lose any fight against Thor in the long run, barring a ton of prep, being allowed to use all his resources, and being able to pick the fight location. So even in that example of people being closer in "power", one side would still need a ton of extra advantages to beat the other side.

I'd still back Iron man up tbh

At less then 1% energy he still managed to lift a car (or van or whatever the hell it was)

suv. I think 1 Iron Man was boosted but 2 Thor durability was so high Iron Man couldn't beat him.