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Cannon/Legends Vader

Prime Arkann

Both get full heal and restoration after each round.

1: DD Vos, Ventress, Maul, and RotS Kenobi.

2: Kyle Katarn, Kyp Durron, and Maca Windu.

3: Revan, the Dark Revenant, FE Magus, and DoE Bane.

4: Vaylin, Caedus, Nox, and Wrath II

5: Grandmasters Luke and Minch.

Boss: DE Sidious & Valkorion. (Valkorion's full attention is on this battle and has pulled all of his power solely into his current body)

Originally posted by Tondemonai
2: Kyle Katarn, Kyp Durron, and Maca Windu.

http://static1.gamespot.com/uploads/original/1558/15588821/2937059-8793028641-tumbl.gif

Mace Windy, Jedi-Bendu.

Arkann feats?

Originally posted by Syndicate
Arkann feats? http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/arcann-respect-thread/103998/

Down at 1 unless they abuse their force power

After that probably 3

2 or 3 IMO

What are the Hero of Tython's feats? Arkann seems to have good force resistance and durability.

Go down at one, hard. And who the hell is the Dark Revenant? Sounds like one of Ant's fanfiction characters.

'Dark Revenant' is the title Revan has in TOS, IIRC.

No it's not, his title is "The Returned".

https://torcommunity.com/database/npc/8d4EDcF/revan/

My mistake, that's his enemy type.

Until I get feats for the Hero of Tython I have to say they stop at 1.

Except Revan is already in that match, Aurbere.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Go down at one, hard. And who the hell is the Dark Revenant? Sounds like one of Ant's fanfiction characters.
It's his other title alongside "the Returned". Basically I use it to describe Revan as of TOS (the amped one).

Originally posted by Syndicate
Until I get feats for the Hero of Tython I have to say they stop at 1.
Neph's RT for him: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t586426.html

He's the most skilled Jedi of the era and among the most powerful / experienced.

He defeated a weakened voice of Vitiate and a decent-sized army of Imperial Guards.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Neph's RT for him: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t586426.html

He's the most skilled Jedi of the era and among the most powerful / experienced.

He defeated a weakened voice of Vitiate and a decent-sized army of Imperial Guards.

Can you summarize his best force feat, his best skill feat and his best physical ( speed, strength, durability, endurance ) feats?

His best force feat? They're practically nonexistant, but his power seems to impress everyone he comes across. Skill? He's beaten a bunch of guys with some neat accolades and is the battle master of the order. Physical? He blitzed some Sith dudes.

It's more or less that + fluff.

Best Force Use: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF4YIaKw0cI&t=5m08s (x4)
Best Combat: He soloed the Dark Temple which was filled with Imperial Guards / Sith.
Best Speed: Speed-blitzed two Sith Lords that just defeated a nice Jedi Council Master.
Best Durability: Eh he's constantly getting butt****ed by OP bosses but manages to live.
Best Endurance: Your typical video-game protag that fights through armies without tiring.

His greatest accomplishments are defeating Darth Angral, Lord Scourge, and then Vitiate's Voice.
After he helped defeat Revan he became the Jedi Battlemaster of the Order, which is really cool tbh.
And, once again, he's consistently praised by Vitiate and the Jedi as their most powerful / skilled Jedi.

EDIT: What Sasukedc said, TBH.

"nice Jedi Council Master"?

She's appeared like 3-4 times and there hasn't been a single one where she hasn't been getting raped by somebody. I'm actually inclined to contend that she might be the weakest named JCM that we know of in the Star Wars mythos.

Worse than Trebor?

Yes.

DAYUM

My OCD required me to find a four letter word so all my text was roughly around the same length (at least on my desktop). Here:

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Best Force Use: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF4YIaKw0cI&t=5m08s (x4)
Best Combat: He soloed the Dark Temple which was filled with Imperial Guards / Sith.
Best Speed: Speed-blitzed two Sith Lords that just defeated a nice Jedi Council Master.
Best Durability: Eh he's constantly getting butt****ed by OP bosses but manages to live.
Best Endurance: Your typical video-game protag that fights through armies without tiring.

His greatest accomplishments are defeating Darth Angral, Lord Scourge, and then Vitiate's Voice.
After he helped defeat Revan he became the Jedi Battlemaster of the Order, which is really cool tbh.
And, once again, he's consistently praised by Vitiate and the Jedi as their most powerful / skilled Jedi.

EDIT: What Sasukedc said, TBH.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Best Force Use: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF4YIaKw0cI&t=5m08s (x4)
Best Combat: He soloed the Dark Temple which was filled with Imperial Guards / Sith.
Best Speed: Speed-blitzed two Sith Lords that just defeated a nice Jedi Council Master.
Best Durability: Eh he's constantly getting butt****ed by OP bosses but manages to live.
Best Endurance: Your typical video-game protag that fights through armies without tiring.

His greatest accomplishments are defeating Darth Angral, Lord Scourge, and then Vitiate's Voice.
After he helped defeat Revan he became the Jedi Battlemaster of the Order, which is really cool tbh.
And, once again, he's consistently praised by Vitiate and the Jedi as their most powerful / skilled Jedi.

EDIT: What Sasukedc said, TBH.

So he was a legitimate Jedi battlemaster? Meaning he mastered all 7 lightsaber forms? ( Tbh that would be a better skill feat in my mind )

Originally posted by Syndicate
So he was a legitimate Jedi battlemaster? Meaning he mastered all 7 lightsaber forms? ( Tbh that would be a better skill feat in my mind )

"Your work against Revan and his followers has been truly exceptional. And your expertise in combating the Emperor is second to none.
You embody every ideal in the Jedi Code. The Council is unanimous in its decision to name you Battlemaster of the order.
As Battlemaster, your strategic insights will guide the Council's decisions, and you will share your lightsaber skills with the order's most promising students.
But most important of all, you will lead the charge against the Sith Emperor, along with any who choose to follow him."

He was the legitimate Jedi Battlemaster. Is there a quote that says the Battlemaster has mastered all seven (not that it would be a surprise the Hero did)?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
"Your work against Revan and his followers has been truly exceptional. And your expertise in combating the Emperor is second to none.
You embody every ideal in the Jedi Code. The Council is unanimous in its decision to name you Battlemaster of the order.
As Battlemaster, your strategic insights will guide the Council's decisions, and you will share your lightsaber skills with the order's most promising students.
But most important of all, you will lead the charge against the Sith Emperor, along with any who choose to follow him."

He was the legitimate Jedi Battlemaster. Is there a quote that says the Battlemaster has mastered all seven (not that it would be a surprise the Hero did)?

Apparently to be named a battlemaster you need to master all 7 lightsaber forms. It's in either one of Evan or Jen's vid with Kao Cen Darach.

Impressive. With all that in mind I say the team still stops at 1. Thank you for all the feats on the hero of Tython Ant.

Originally posted by Syndicate
It's in either one of Evan or Jen's vid with Kao Cen Darach.
...

Evan and Jen have no credibility, nor are they a canonical source.

Did they simply say this or claim this was stated in another source?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
...

Evan and Jen have no credibility, nor are they a canonical source.

Did they simply say this or claim this was stated in another source?

They had a source for it. I don't repeat the versus YT'ers words as gospel Ant. :P

If you want I can find it for you.

TBH you scared me for a second. XD

I'm pretty sure it was in the Jedi Path

Originally posted by Syndicate
Impressive. With all that in mind I say the team still stops at 1. Thank you for all the feats on the hero of Tython Ant.

Any specific reason they don't make it past 1?

Ngl, seeing Ant talk about HoT for so long without lowballing him once was beautiful.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I'm pretty sure it was in the Jedi Path I think so too. A f***ing friend who doesn't even love EU that much stole mine from me so I can't even look it up.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
Any specific reason they don't make it past 1?

DD Vos is faster then either of them. Kenobi's Soresu could hold either off for a good period of time, Ventress makes it an even fight or tips the balance in their favor. Maul is overkill.

Ventress gets blitzed. Kenobi gets ragdolled. DD Vos and Maul make the fight interesting, but ultimately they fall.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Ventress gets blitzed. Kenobi gets ragdolled. DD Vos and Maul make the fight interesting, but ultimately they fall.

Nah. Vader and Arkaan can't make very good use of their force advantage when they're outnumbered 2:1 by relatively even duelists.

Originally posted by Syndicate
DD Vos is faster then either of them. Kenobi's Soresu could hold either off for a good period of time, Ventress makes it an even fight or tips the balance in their favor. Maul is overkill.

Interesting. I'm not trying to poke holes in this argument, but Vader fairly easily downed Old Ben in ANH; curious why he would have a better chance here?

Originally posted by Tondemonai
Interesting. I'm not trying to poke holes in this argument, but Vader fairly easily downed Old Ben in ANH; curious why he would have a better chance here?

Don't get me wrong. Obi Wan would still lose to either of them but Obi Wan in his prime has defended against Grievous striking 26 blows per second and held off both Maul and Savage at the same time ( granted there were external factors ). His greatest advantage is Soresu which allows him to last against more skilled or more physically powerful duelists. Where Obi Wan's weakness lies is against powerful force users which unfortunately both on Team 1 are. However I believe paired with anybody on Team 2 Kenobi and his partner could pressure either on Team 1 enough that they could not abuse their force advantage. From there they'd just have to last until the other 2 on their team defeat their opponent which I feel Kenobi and even someone like Ventress are capable of doing to either of Team 1.

The best chance of Team 2 and luckily the most likely ( since morales are on ) is Maul and Obi Wan and DD Vos and Ventress. DD Vos and Ventress are used to working together and Maul and Kenobi will want to keep an eye on one another. Maul should be able to prevent Kenobi from being ragdolled by either on team 1 with his own comparable force power. Combine that with his own skill in Juyo ( the most offensive form ) and Kenobi's in Soresu ( the most defensive form ) and I feel they could not only hold off but beat either of team 1. DD Vos and Ventress I feel similarly about, along with the fact that they should just work well as a team together.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Nah. Vader and Arkaan can't make very good use of their force advantage when they're outnumbered 2:1 by relatively even duelists.
At neutral starting distance? And it has never seemed to stop them, or Dooku, or well anyone really. They won't be ripping out the foundation or anything, but to act like they can't TK Kenobi out of the fight or out fight Ventress is pretty lulzy.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
At neutral starting distance? And it has never seemed to stop them, or Dooku, or well anyone really. They won't be ripping out the foundation or anything, but to act like they can't TK Kenobi out of the fight or out fight Ventress is pretty lulzy.

As we've seen Force users can combine their powers to make a force barrier. Team 2 would likely do so if Team 1 attempted to use the force against them right off the bat. Team 2 is strong enough to hold off an attack from Team 1 imo.

Personally I think the Hero's best Force feats are defensive in that she was able to defend against and overcome the force attacks of Vitiate in the Dark Temple while partially spent, when even after she defeats him and practically cuts him in half + he's utterly exhausted, he's still potent enough to rip the temple apart. And in that she resists Sel Makor's direct corrupting power in the heart of his domain, with Sel Makor being an immensely powerful darkside entity. Also the various statements that she's powerful enough to tank Vitiate's telepathy.

Or how she can mentally dominate Tol Braga, when he had incredibly powerful willpower and TP resistance, having broken the Emperor's domination by himself, something no-one else in history was able to do.

Why does Neph ignore the fact that TK attacks are not always the same power when comparing the tanking of Vitiate's TK to the Dark Temple feat, kek?

Also, when did she mentally dominate Tol Bragga? That sounds like a non-canon option.

Yeah, I'm sure Vitiate put way more power into collapsing the temple then he did in actual combat with his most hated enemy. The fact that he tries to kill the Hero by indirectly collapsing the temple as opposed to directly attacking her with TK proves she can tank and spank him.

Actually, the darkside choice with Tol Braga is canon. In the Imperial Agent storyline he's mentioned as being killed, which is something only executing him or sending him off to kill as many Sith as he can will lead to. AKA the darkside options.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Actually, the darkside choice with Tol Braga is canon. In the Imperial Agent storyline he's mentioned as being killed, which is something only executing him or sending him off to kill as many Sith as he can will lead to. AKA the darkside options.
ROFL. Or, following his redemption, he got into a confrontation with a Sith and... i dunno. died?

Originally posted by Syndicate
As we've seen Force users can combine their powers to make a force barrier. Team 2 would likely do so if Team 1 attempted to use the force against them right off the bat.

Why exactly would Team 1 do that when they've never done it before. Anakin and Kenobi definitely didn't try to combine their powers when Dooku casually tried to TK both of them, they tried to individually block it. Either way, the point would be to focus solely on the weak links, not try to TK everyone at once.


Not even remotely. Arcann's shooting blasts that tear through the shields of the most powerful Force Users in TOR and tanking Lightning that kills hundreds as an after thought, while Vader is nearly unrivaled in the mythos with his TK. Team 2 isn't even close, even when working together.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, I'm sure Vitiate put way more power into collapsing the temple then he did in actual combat with his most hated enemy. The fact that he tries to kill the Hero by indirectly collapsing the temple as opposed to directly attacking her with TK proves she can tank and spank him.
Given the TK attack against the Hero was done as a casual push while the Dark Temple collapsing was this big deal and took a lot longer, nah.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
ROFL. Or, following his redemption, he got into a confrontation with a Sith and... i dunno. died?

Speculation. Two options lead to his death, which is stated to have occurred. The other doesn't. It's illogical to posit something with no evidence when the alternatives already match. Besides, I'm pretty sure the game directly states he's on his way to Tython a few times. Also the HoT killed all the Sith between him and escape and captured his ship iirc.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Why exactly would Team 1 do that when they've never done it before. Anakin and Kenobi definitely didn't try to combine their powers when Dooku casually tried to TK both of them, they tried to individually block it. Either way, the point would be to focus solely on the weak links, not try to TK everyone at once.


Not even remotely. Arcann's shooting blasts that tear through the shields of the most powerful Force Users in TOR and tanking Lightning that kills hundreds as an after thought, while Vader is nearly unrivaled in the mythos with his TK. Team 2 isn't even close, even when working together.

Maul had never demonstrated doing so before he did it with Talzin. I don't see why it would be any different here.

From what I read of his respect thread Arcann broke through the force shields of the HoT who's best feats were collapsing sections of rubble in 4 different places. It's a fine feat but nothing that suggests top tier power. His force shields are powerful then. That doesn't mean his force attacks are. I disagree.

Or you, know, the Star Cabal killed him, because again, it's the Star Cabal. It's pretty illogical to think killing Tol Braga would be the one option the HoT went Dark Side on before facing Vitiate. It's canonical that Tol Braga dies regardless, not that he had to be killed by the HoT.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Given the TK attack against the Hero was done as a casual push while the Dark Temple collapsing was this big deal and took a lot longer, nah.

Uh, casual? He does a decent wind-up. If he could overwhelm the Hero with TK he'd do so. Plus he was in better shape for that push, he wasn't bisected and defeated. Again, if he could pwn the Hero with TK, he'd snap her neck instead of collapse the temple.

it took longer cuz it takes longer to collapse a temple than push someone duh

If you truly disagree that Team 2 could form a collective force barrier though I will allow for it ( even if I disagree ) and counter your argument in another way.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Maul had never done it before he did so with Talzin. I don't see why it would be any different here.

Except he didn't. If I recall correctly, he let her tap off his power using their bond, which already changes the entire dynamic that working together would have.

No, soloing an army of the Imperial Guard and then facing Vitiate on one of the most powerful Dark Side nexus in the galaxy, and being confirmed exhausted does. The HoT's power is shown in the opponents he defeats, same with the other TOR protagonists. Some of which, such as Sel-Makor, are not lacking in power showings and accolades.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Except he didn't. If I recall correctly, he let her tap off his power using their bond, which already changes the entire dynamic that working together would have.

No, soloing an army of the Imperial Guard and then facing Vitiate on one of the most powerful Dark Side nexus in the galaxy, and being confirmed exhausted does. The HoT's power is shown in the opponents he defeats, same with the other TOR protagonists. Some of which, such as Sel-Makor, are not lacking in power showings and accolades.

The bond could have allowed him to more easily lend her power but I don't think that's stated anywhere in the comic. As I already said if you insist that Team 2 would be incapable of such a feat I will counter it in another way.

Fine then what's HoT's best force feat iyo.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Actually, the darkside choice with Tol Braga is canon. In the Imperial Agent storyline he's mentioned as being killed, which is something only executing him or sending him off to kill as many Sith as he can will lead to. AKA the darkside options.

Nah, there are hundreds upon hundreds of possible story paths that fit with that. For example, the Jedi saying he had died to protect him, or to avoid repercussions about allowing a mass murderer back into the order, etc.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Or you, know, the Star Cabal killed him, because again, it's the Star Cabal. It's pretty illogical to think killing Tol Braga would be the one option the HoT went Dark Side on before facing Vitiate. It's canonical that Tol Braga dies regardless, not that he had to be killed by the HoT.

Originally posted by Selenial
Nah, there are hundreds upon hundreds of possible story paths that fit with that. For example, the Jedi saying he had died to protect him, or to avoid repercussions about allowing a mass murderer back into the order, etc.

Like I said, blatant speculation with no evidence to support them. While there's actual choices in game that lead to the conclusion that requires no bending to fit.

The Hero is also directly stated to possess darkness by Scourge. Them being a 100% lightside all the time goody good Jedi is actually definitively non-canonical.


Also LOL at the Jedi fooling the frigging Star Cabal with a false story.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, I'm sure Vitiate put way more power into collapsing the temple then he did in actual combat with his most hated enemy. The fact that he tries to kill the Hero by indirectly collapsing the temple as opposed to directly attacking her with TK proves she can tank and spank him. Originally posted by Nephthys Uh, casual? He does a decent wind-up. If he could overwhelm the Hero with TK he'd do so. Plus he was in better shape for that push, he wasn't bisected and defeated. Again, if he could pwn the Hero with TK, he'd snap her neck instead of collapse the temple.

it took longer cuz it takes longer to collapse a temple than push someone duh HoT legit survived a force fight with a dude who can collapse a huge building while dying. I don't really see a way of bypassing this fact. The feat suits his accolades perfectly anyway.

HoT legit kicked his ass more like.

Not in a force fight though, which is what I was referring to.

Originally posted by Syndicate
The bond could have allowed him to more easily lend her power but I don't think that's stated anywhere in the comic. As I already said if you insist that Team 2 would be incapable of such a feat I will counter it in another way.

Maul specifically said that he was lending her his power, not that they made a barrier together.

Besides defending against Vitiate, even if weakened, this acting like the HoT is the only FS in TOR capable of going through KotFE, and the others tanking vast amounts of power from the higher ups of the Dark Council? Helping lift the Gravestone. That being said, power is involved in all aspects of combat, not just lifting up large pieces of rubble and blowing through blast doors, which the Barsen'thor has done. Point is, no one here is lacking for showings, and many of them are superior to most of Team 1. Arcann still absolutely stomped and tore through their shields.

They were capable of lifting the Gravestone without the protag's help if he was non-Force sensitive.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also LOL at the Jedi fooling the frigging Star Cabal with a false story.
No that's some bullshit beyond even you. The Jedi are fooling the ****ing Star Cabal, which they don't even know about. That's so ****ing lolarious my sides just flew past Saturn.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
They were capable of lifting the Gravestone without the protag's help if he was non-Force sensitive.
Even I won't humor a non-Force Sensitive Outlander, but we're talking about best showings.

His best showing is getting consistently butt****ed by Soa, the Dread Masters, and Revan, but manages to somehow always live through the confrontations.

As if the Smuggler didn't solo mode those clowns.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Maul specifically said that he was lending her his power, not that they made a barrier together.

Besides defending against Vitiate, even if weakened, this acting like the HoT is the only FS in TOR capable of going through KotFE, and the others tanking vast amounts of power from the higher ups of the Dark Council? Helping lift the Gravestone. That being said, power is involved in all aspects of combat, not just lifting up large pieces of rubble and blowing through blast doors, which the Barsen'thor has done. Point is, no one here is lacking for showings, and many of them are superior to most of Team 1. Arcann still absolutely stomped and tore through their shields.

I can't make heads or tails of that second part.

His most powerful force attack ( TK or lightning preferably ) and the most powerful attack he's defended against please. Same for Arkaan thank you very much.

Arcann's best feat and best defensive feat is:

8LE0qgLoxsM

1.02 onwards.

Its legitimately amazing.

Also:

"This is the largest collection of Arcann feats and accolades. Respect the Dark Price."

Kek.

What I'm getting from what I've currently read is that the HoT has defended against force blasts from Vitiate that were a little less powerful then a force blast that could collapse a temple meaning Arkaan would have TK MORE powerful then this. Essentially TK blasts powerful enough to collapse a temple.

Which is fine. All I want to know is if he accomplished the feat of overwhelming the HoT on a Dark Side nexus.

Edit: Thank you for that. That defensive feat is amazing meaning Arkaan will not be overwhelmed in the force by anyone on team 2.

So to respond to you Fresh if Vader and Arkaan go for the weakest links, Obi Wan and Ventress, DD Vos and Maul will simply attack them while they're doing so causing them to lose their concentration and engage with them. Obi Wan and Ventress will join one of their teammates and the fight will go down as I said it would on the last page.

I don't think Arcann can beat any combination of the duo without abusing his power

Originally posted by carthage
I don't think Arcann can beat any combination of the duo without abusing his power

I agree. The only duo he has a chance against is Obi Wan and Ventress and even then I don't think he'd be able to abuse his advantage as he'd be too focused on fending off their combined attack. As I said on the last page I believe Obi Wan and Ventress could hold out long enough for DD Vos and Maul to take out Vader. And that wouldn't even be their best chance.

How comparable is HK-51 to Ventress and Obi-Wan, I wonder.

Originally posted by Nephthys
How comparable is HK-51 to Ventress and Obi-Wan, I wonder.

Probably not at all...

Originally posted by Syndicate
So to respond to you Fresh if Vader and Arkaan go for the weakest links, Obi Wan and Ventress, DD Vos and Maul will simply attack them while they're doing so causing them to lose their concentration and engage with them. Obi Wan and Ventress will join one of their teammates and the fight will go down as I said it would on the last page.
Yeah, Dooku's constant tooling of Obi-Wan and Ventress up until RotS and DD respectively doesn't exactly suggest that it takes some form of inhuman concentration to handle either with the Force. You haven't really explained why it would take such great effort and concentration to do either. Vader is greatest duelist here and can outduel anyone here. Arcann's not exactly lacking in dueling feats either. None of the other team is remotely comparable in the Force. The idea that numbers will somehow make up for that difference doesn't sit well, especially considering neither should have problem disabling Obi-Wan and quickly taking out Ventress.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Yeah, Dooku's constant tooling of Obi-Wan and Ventress up until RotS and DD respectively doesn't exactly suggest that it takes some form of inhuman concentration to handle either with the Force. You haven't really explained why it would take such great effort and concentration to do either. Vader is greatest duelist here and can outduel anyone here. Arcann's not exactly lacking in dueling feats either. None of the other team is remotely comparable in the Force. The idea that numbers will somehow make up for that difference doesn't sit well, especially considering neither should have problem disabling Obi-Wan and quickly taking out Ventress.

Dooku needed to draw greatly on his reserves in the force to KO RotS Kenobi. Even if Obi Wan and Ventress's force defenses were broken through immediately ( doubtful ) DD VoS and Maul aren't just going to be standing around. They'll either launch a force attack of their own which will break the concentration of Team 1 or engage them with their sabers doing the same.

Maul is about as skilled as Vader and is comparably powerful. Same goes for Vos.

Obi Wan and Ventress have moderately powerful force feats and are skilled duelists in their own rights.

Being pressured by duelists that are comparably skilled and that have a 2:1 advantage leaves you little time to draw on the force. Also isn't the starting distance relatively close when unspecified?

Originally posted by Syndicate
Dooku needed to draw greatly on his reserves in the force to KO RotS Kenobi. Even if Obi Wan and Ventress's force defenses were broken through immediately ( doubtful ) DD VoS and Maul aren't just going to be standing around. They'll either launch a force attack of their own which will break the concentration of Team 1 or engage them with their sabers doing the same.

Maul is about as skilled as Vader and is comparably powerful. Same goes for Vos.

Obi Wan and Ventress have moderately powerful force feats and are skilled duelists in their own rights.

Being pressured by duelists that are comparably skilled and that have a 2:1 advantage leaves you little time to draw on the force. Also isn't the starting distance relatively close when unspecified?

Might I remind you how quickly Arkann threw up his Force Barrier against the attack shown in Neph's provided video?

Originally posted by Tondemonai
Might I remind you how quickly Arkann threw up his Force Barrier against the attack shown in Neph's provided video?

I think Arkaan will have to end his attack on either Ventress or Obi Wan if he's forced to quickly throw up a barrier.

Originally posted by Nephthys
How comparable is HK-51 to Ventress and Obi-Wan, I wonder.

His aim is terrible, took him 3+ minutes to hit a dog-sized spider with a machine gun.

Pretty sure that clip was for comedy not versus discussion, rofl.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Dooku needed to draw greatly on his reserves in the force to KO RotS Kenobi.

Which he recovered from enough to fight Anakin with just as much energy in every strike. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/3024136639.gif

How long is it supposed to take to use TK?

No. Not even close. For either. In either category.

And they're both outclassed in every way here.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/4386157-dooku+kicks+anakin+%26+ragdolls+obi+wan.gif
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111246656/4747607-2637817144-39375.gif
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/3762921-dsfsdfsdfs.gif

The last one is an example of neutral starting distance.

It's not like they're standing face to face.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No. Not even close. For either. In either category. http://45.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgg5byyzWM1qfas78o1_500.gif

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Which he recovered from enough to fight Anakin with just as much energy in every strike. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/3024136639.gif

How long is it supposed to take to use TK?

No. Not even close. For either. In either category.

And they're both outclassed in every way here.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/4386157-dooku+kicks+anakin+%26+ragdolls+obi+wan.gif
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11124/111246656/4747607-2637817144-39375.gif
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137054/3762921-dsfsdfsdfs.gif

The last one is an example of neutral starting distance.

It's not like they're standing face to face.

You may have a different opinion but I believe that Dooku expending this energy was part of the reason he lost the fight to Anakin.

From numerous source it usually takes a moment to draw in the power you need. Considering Maul has killed a group of people faster then an eye blink and Vos is even faster then that, not fast enough.

*Shrug* Your opinion vs mine.

True enough but together or even paired with either of the others on Team 2 they should be enough to handle either of team 1.

I didn't say it's impossible just that there's little time to draw on the force. As you saw the only time one of those force attacks led to incapacitation was when he took Anakin out of the fight momentarily. In the other 2 scans the team recovered. So is there a small chance that Vader or Arkaan could do what Dooku did in RotS to a team like Obi Wan and Ventress? Yes. Is it likely? I don't think so. Besides I admitted earlier that the teams best chance is Maul and Obi Wan and Vos and Ventress pairing off. Something which is likely because of the reasons I stated in said post.

Originally posted by Syndicate
You may have a different opinion but I believe that Dooku expending this energy was part of the reason he lost the fight to Anakin.

Maybe he lost to Anakin because Anakin was far more powerful and skilled. Considering that Dooku has been shown being outmatched by Anakin in skill several times by that point, I'm guessing it's more of a mismatch in power, since he was "far more powerful" by that point than "TKing Obi-Wan takes a lot of effort."

There are far more sources that show "moment to draw in the power you need" is instantaneous. It doesn't take minutes to TK someone.

What exactly is your opinion based upon? Mine is of a Maul's writer that says he's weaker than Dooku and numerous feats that put Vader well above Maul, as well as accolades that claim he is a greater swordsmen than the guy that stomped Maul and his brother. But considering all arguments are opinion based, I'm not exactly sure what the point is.

Based on? The combined skill of a pair doesn't put them above their betters.

Anakin's far above anyone in this gauntlet, so using his recovery time to show how it's possible to recover, from a kick of all things, isn't really proof of being able to recover from being ragdolled.

Probably because Dooku was trying to escape, not kill them.

So, just to make sure I'm not getting your argument wrong, you think Vader and Arcann, as the name is spelled, who have both shown power far beyond anything Dooku is capable of, aren't capable of defeating lesser opponents?

None of which matters because again, half the team will be incapacitated and defeated early on.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Maybe he lost to Anakin because Anakin was far more powerful and skilled. Considering that Dooku has been shown being outmatched by Anakin in skill several times by that point, I'm guessing it's more of a mismatch in power, since he was "far more powerful" by that point than "TKing Obi-Wan takes a lot of effort."

There are far more sources that show "moment to draw in the power you need" is instantaneous. It doesn't take minutes to TK someone.

What exactly is your opinion based upon? Mine is of a Maul's writer that says he's weaker than Dooku and numerous feats that put Vader well above Maul, as well as accolades that claim he is a greater swordsmen than the guy that stomped Maul and his brother. But considering all arguments are opinion based, I'm not exactly sure what the point is.

Based on? The combined skill of a pair doesn't put them above their betters.

Anakin's far above anyone in this gauntlet, so using his recovery time to show how it's possible to recover, from a kick of all things, isn't really proof of being able to recover from being ragdolled.

Probably because Dooku was trying to escape, not kill them.

So, just to make sure I'm not getting your argument wrong, you think Vader and Arcann, as the name is spelled, who have both shown power far beyond anything Dooku is capable of, aren't capable of defeating lesser opponents?

None of which matters because again, half the team will be incapacitated and defeated early on.

Nope. I think he lost because he was tired out by having to fend off the combined attack of a Djem So and Soresu master of the caliber of Anakin and Kenobi and then had to face Anakin who's rage was being encouraged by Sidious. To top it all off Anakin's strength which is possibly the greatest in SW and his strength based form perfectly counters Dooku's own.

Not minutes but usually for large bursts of power like ragdolling an opponent a moment is needed to gather your power such as with Dooku and RotS and Galen and Starkiller in the TFU novels. Can you give me an example of instantaneous force use?

Maul's own force and skill feats. Also I didn't say Maul was as powerful as Vader or Dooku, simply that he was comparable. Obi Wan beat Savage. He didn't pressure Maul in any way during that fight.

It does imo. Two comparable opponents should be enough to pressure a superior opponent into doing everything they can to fend them off.

I wasn't using it as a proof of recovery. I was simply saying that the only time an incapacitation took place ( Kenobi's incapacitation ) was when one of the combatants ( Anakin ) was taken out of the fight momentarily.

But if he was certain he could kill them why would he need to try to escape?

They haven't shown power far beyond Dooku. I think they could possibly do so but for a majority? No.

They wouldn't be incapacitated. How would Vader and Arkann even know who weak links were before they were already being engaged with?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
His aim is terrible, took him 3+ minutes to hit a dog-sized spider with a machine gun.

Yeah, but that was a comedy scene. And he has obliterated a reinforced blastdoor and iirc he followed up on that wacky hijinks scene by blowing the shit out of a swarm of monsters.

Mostly though, I recall his codex says he's comparable to the previous HK series', who are all very potent.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, but that was a comedy scene. And he has obliterated a reinforced blastdoor and iirc he followed up on that wacky hijinks scene by blowing the shit out of a swarm of monsters.

Mostly though, I recall his codex says he's comparable to the previous HK series', who are all very potent.

I'd imaging him being a new model he'd be better/more advanced.