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This will take place after Star Trek Beyond's film over the summer. It will be trilogy vs. trilogy. This challenge is first being extended to Darth Thor since he always acts like he could beat me in a one on one judged debate. I will be representing ONLY the NuTrek Trilogy while you have your choice of the Prequel trilogy or the Original trilogy. It'll be a space war with all characters from each trilogy only going to war.

I'm saying based off the interviews for Beyond and the sheer numbers of the NuFilm along with the other two films that they'd defeat either Wars trilogy in combat. I'm willing to debate this. Here is your chance to shut me up. Will anyone answer the bell here ?

Star Trek is the easy argument to make. Try graduating from difficulty level casual...

How about Kylo Ren vs Khan?

While I'm not aquitted to Nu Star Trek, I am under the impression that Star Trek carries better equipment in general as their fleets are more advanced and are better fit for warfare.

I pity those who accept such an unfair challenge.

The death star blows up planets with lone shot, I dunno any star trek ship that could do that

Oh god, reading this is so awkward...

Originally posted by steverules_2
The death star blows up planets with lone shot, I dunno any star trek ship that could do that

Yeah, but every Death Star has been pwned by ships that are incredibly inferior to the fleets Startrek has to offer. They are powerful but they are sitting ducks. The fact that they keep rebuilding the Death Star everytime should tell you how above average it is compared to conventional weaponry.

Can you even shield against teleporting in the SW universe?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh god, reading this is so awkward...

Originally posted by Firefly218
Star Trek is the easy argument to make. Try graduating from difficulty level casual... Ask diehard Star Wars fans and they vehemently disagree. Nice to hear you agree with me though, kiddo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ask diehard Star Wars fans and they vehemently disagree. Nice to hear you agree with me though, kiddo.

On movies only? That's one biased fan.

Originally posted by Bentley
On movies only? That's one biased fan. 3 vs 3. You throw Q in and they get stomped. I'm making this very fair and it's the point of comparing one trilogy vs the other. You're just some minor poster who shows up every week or so with a trollish comment. I'd never even consider you'd have the stones to do anything tbh.

Originally posted by quanchi112
3 vs 3. You throw Q in and they get stomped. I'm making this very fair and it's the point of comparing one trilogy vs the other. You're just some minor poster who shows up every week or so with a trollish comment. I'd never even consider you'd have the stones to do anything tbh.

Eh? I've challenged you to several (equally unfair ) battlezones in the past and you've never accepted. I won't say you're afraid though, maybe you're just lazy.

Me? I'm pretty lazy and I'm not going to watch sh_tty movies just to have you beaten. That's how evil wins.

Originally posted by Bentley
Eh? I've challenged you to several (equally unfair ) battlezones in the past and you've never accepted. I won't say you're afraid though, maybe you're just lazy.

Me? I'm pretty lazy and I'm not going to watch sh_tty movies just to have you beaten. That's how evil wins. Have you even done a battlezone ?

I don't find them to be shitty but to each their own. Just grab your Pom Poms but you may be disappointed as I don't think Darth Thor would ever accept a judged debate between the two of us.

I'm awfully impatient with movies, so there is that.

I did a battlezone with PG and OV for the kicks a few years ago, but it was more of a amalgam-style match than an open debate to prove a point. Back then I had scans available and a smaller family, so it was easier to take time and set up arguments.

Originally posted by Bentley
I'm awfully impatient with movies, so there is that.

I did a battlezone with PG and OV for the kicks a few years ago, but it was more of a amalgam-style match than an open debate to prove a point. Back then I had scans available and a smaller family, so it was easier to take time and set up arguments. Movies are by far the easiest battlezones especially when you compare them to comic book characters.

The first opportunity is for Darth Thor who talks a big game but when it comes down to it he actually backed down from a battlezone he accepted the day of when he knew the stips for months. Let's see if he accepts but my money is he runs because he doesn't believe himself to be a superior debater to me whatsoever.

Weird...

Originally posted by Bentley
While I'm not aquitted to Nu Star Trek, I am under the impression that Star Trek carries better equipment in general as their fleets are more advanced and are better fit for warfare.



This is the problem we always run into every time a SWvST thread pops up. There is no proper way to gague The Star Fleets capabilities against the combined efforts of the Star Wars universe, armada. Even if we were to agree for arguments sake that both sides functioned with the same type of shield calibrations, we would would have to then decide which classes of which ships would affect one another.

As far as firepower goes i think we have to assume that both sides are capable of equal or at least comparable offerings. Let's get the death Star out of the way right away. The Death Star isn't going to do dick against a space fleet. It can destroy planets at will but unless this is a question of whether or not the Star Fleet can stop the death Star before it's operational then it's not even worth arguing the power of the Death Star. Otherwise, i think it's fair to say that as long as a ship with comparable shield capabilities from either side is fighting the other then they are more than capable negating each other.

Next, lets look at speed and maneuverability of both sides ships.
On this topic i will have to, for the most part, defer to others for their knowledge of, Star Trek. My awareness stops with, The Next Generation. Although, i will say that i think the warp capabilities go to, Star Wars (even though that shouldn't matter much in this fight). Also, considering how incredible agile the Tie Fighters are, i also think they may have the edge in maneuverability.

Next, lets look at tech. The Star Fleet has cloaking capability and there is nothing to suggest, short of Jedi or Sith pilots to suggest that the Star Wars armada could actively defend against this. So i would give the edge to the Star Fleet but i do think the sheer numbers of the SW armada could just as easily over power, Star Fleet. I imagine only a handful of Star Fleet ships are outfitted with the arsenal to take on a Star Destroyer.

Darth Thor, do you accept ?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh god, reading this is so awkward...

Reading any VS thread is so awkward.

I'll do it.

I'll be Khan

Originally posted by Bentley
Yeah, but every Death Star has been pwned by ships that are incredibly inferior to the fleets Startrek has to offer. They are powerful but they are sitting ducks. The fact that they keep rebuilding the Death Star everytime should tell you how above average it is compared to conventional weaponry.

Can you even shield against teleporting in the SW universe?

But does Star Trek even have ships capable of pulling off the shots needed to blow up the Death Star? They don't use smaller ships like X-Wings.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
I'll do it. You will rep Star Wars ?

Originally posted by Nephthys
But does Star Trek even have ships capable of pulling off the shots needed to blow up the Death Star? They don't use smaller ships like X-Wings. Jellyfish, bro.

They shoot the Death Star with Genesis.

Originally posted by playa1258
They shoot the Death Star with Genesis. NuTrek only versus either the ot trilogy or the prequel trilogy.

Well Trek loses their most powerful weapon.

Originally posted by playa1258
Well Trek loses their most powerful weapon. NuTrek will be one trilogy with Beyond to take on either trilogy the debater who accepts gets to represent.

KHAN WINZ YOU SHITHEADS!!

Originally posted by quanchi112
You will rep Star Wars ?
Sure. I just binge watched all six movies. I feel pretty good about the originsl trilogy.

The enterprise has a pathetic combat record so far

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Sure. I just binge watched all six movies. I feel pretty good about the originsl trilogy. I want to at least give Darth Thor a chance to regain his lost nuts. But if he doesn't accept you can rep the ot's vs. my NuTrek after Star Trek Beyond releases this summer.

Originally posted by playa1258
The enterprise has a pathetic combat record so far Your point ?

It would nice of it to win a battle.

Unless there's a sizable fleet battle in the new ST movie then they won't win this.

Originally posted by jaden101
Unless there's a sizable fleet battle in the new ST movie then they won't win this. See what I mean. A few posters act like Star Trek has this in the bag then you saying Trek probably won't win. Darth Thor continues to be absent like some Luke Skywalker coward.

Originally posted by quanchi112
See what I mean. A few posters act like Star Trek has this in the bag then you saying Trek probably won't win. Darth Thor continues to be absent like some Luke Skywalker coward.

Sheer scale issue. The battle of coruscant has more ships and firepower than anything shown in ST so far which is why I say the new movie needs a large scale battle to even things up.

Should be said that ST would totally annihilate SW in an all out.

Originally posted by Nephthys
But does Star Trek even have ships capable of pulling off the shots needed to blow up the Death Star? They don't use smaller ships like X-Wings.

Teleport a bomb in. Let the empire waste resources at remaking yet another Death Star

^ Huh? I have no interest in this kind of battle. Star Trek can win this one, I'm really not bothered. And contrary to what you(Quan) might think, I actually am a fan of Abrams Star Trek. More so than Abrams Star Wars tbh.

I just argue against your lowballing of the elite Jedi/Sith, and your overstating of NuKhan.

If you want to do a Khan vs Ahsoka battlezone (or something similar) then you can PM me, as I don't see most your posts. In terms of a Ship to Ship battles I'll take on Vader in his Tie Fighter vs pretty much anyone else in any ship, as long as it's one on one and within reason (Like not Q, or some random Trek episode where someone's controlling a completely Invincible Ship).

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ Huh? I have no interest in this kind of battle. Star Trek can win this one, I'm really not bothered. And contrary to what you(Quan) might think, I actually am a fan of Abrams Star Trek. More so than Abrams Star Wars tbh.

I just argue against your lowballing of the elite Jedi/Sith, and your overstating of NuKhan.

If you want to do a Khan vs Ahsoka battlezone (or something similar) then you can PM me, as I don't see most your posts. In terms of a Ship to Ship battles I'll take on Vader in his Tie Fighter vs pretty much anyone else in any ship, as long as it's one on one and within reason (Like not Q, or some random Trek episode where someone's controlling a completely Invincible Ship). You have raved about the space battles of the series. We've argued at length over what's greater with me supporting Lightsaber battles but you really get excited for the ship battles. You can pick the ot trilogy and argue for Vader as a pilot.


I've already argued Vader and Palpatine so that is a step backward. I also have no interest in such a b level Star Wars character who hasn't even seen a live action scene thus far.

Glad to hear you concede Trek wins though.

Originally posted by jaden101
Unless there's a sizable fleet battle in the new ST movie then they won't win this.

Even if there was, they won't win it, because of the space battle we see in Return of the Jedi.

And even using films only as evidence, Star Wars totally destroys Star Trek in terms of fire power, power generation, travel speeds and so on. Building the Death Star alone and moving it around at FTL speeds, completely eclipses anything ever done in the NuTrek movieverse.

Not even a contest.

Originally posted by Nai
Even if there was, they won't win it, because of the space battle we see in Return of the Jedi.

And even using films only as evidence, Star Wars totally destroys Star Trek in terms of fire power, power generation, travel speeds and so on. Building the Death Star alone and moving it around at FTL speeds, completely eclipses anything ever done in the NuTrek movieverse.

Not even a contest. "If so powerful you are, why leave ?"

Originally posted by quanchi112
"If so powerful you are, why leave ?"

Lack of opponents.

Originally posted by Nai
Lack of opponents. This will be a judged debate. Are you in or out ? Do not brag about victory but fail to step in the arena. I'm fully confident in Trek's superiority over either of the first two trilogies in an all out debate. Are you ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
This will be a judged debate.


Judged by who? How? When?



I don't care enough to be in.



No. I'm not confident in Trek's superiority.

I'm very sorry to tell you, but I've stepped into a "SW vs ST" arena years ago, and completely destroyed the ST side. Educate yourself. You can also have it in the short version of "Enterprise-D vs a Star Destroyer" right here. Or just read through this site.

And there is nothing in NuTrack that helps ST win.

Originally posted by Nai
Judged by who? How? When?



I don't care enough to be in.



No. I'm not confident in Trek's superiority.

I'm very sorry to tell you, but I've stepped into a "SW vs ST" arena years ago, and completely destroyed the ST side. Educate yourself. You can also have it in the short version of "Enterprise-D vs a Star Destroyer" right here. Or just read through this site.

And there is nothing in NuTrack that helps ST win. We can come to an agreement on who judges the debate. We'd have it this summer after we've both seen the Beyond. We'd set the stips, time, and the agree to three posters who hopefully would judge the debate without biased.


I have no interest in the old Trek. I find it abysmal save Spock prime and he's in NuTrek. That being said judging by the preview for a film you haven't seen you can't rightly say at this time. If you can then your bias knows no bounds. From what I've gathered from interviews this will give Trek the numbers it needs on screen.

This new villain Krall seems to be taking on the entire federation. They've already had the superior tech, ships, and progression so this IMO will confirm it. Do not lack the ambition or the passion to pass up on a new debate here. A new film and trilogy vs trilogy. If you were not intrigued at all you wouldn't have even posted here.

I'm confused, I thought Quan was the biggest STAR WARS fan eva? Why is he arguing for NuTrek?

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
I'm confused, I thought Quan was the biggest STAR WARS fan eva? Why is he arguing for NuTrek? I am the bridge to these two franchises on the battle boards like Abrams was in the directors chair.

NuTrek's trilogy will defeat either of these two Star Wars trilogies in combat. Anyone is welcome to disagree and try to prove otherwise.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
I'm confused, I thought Quan was the biggest STAR WARS fan eva? Why is he arguing for NuTrek?

Lol

Meh, Star Wars will forever dwarf Star Trek imo, nothing will ever change that. Not gonna waste time arguing about it on a battle board.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We can come to an agreement on who judges the debate. We'd have it this summer after we've both seen the Beyond. We'd set the stips, time, and the agree to three posters who hopefully would judge the debate without biased.


Still not interested.



Click on the second link I've posted.
A single Star-Destroyer could probably wipe out the entire fleet of the Federation in a space battle. The Empire brings dozens of those (ROTJ) with Rebel ships to match them (Home One). Add Vader's flagship and two Death Stars. No contest.

Star Trek is a centuries old civilization with hundreds to maybe a thousand or so systems in the Federation, with ships around half a kilometer long.

Star Wars is a millennia old civilization with tens of thousands of systems (at least), and ships a kilometer and a half long.

They also have faster FTL drive.

So Wars has more resources, bigger ships, and more of them.


I agree with those who've noted the only way Trek would win is if Q got involved.


And, of course, oldTrek is stronger than NuTrek, because of course TNG's Federation is bigger with a larger fleet than NuTrek's old ships. So a new foe beating NuTrek doesn't exactly change the scales any.

Originally posted by Nai
Judged by who? How? When?



I don't care enough to be in.



No. I'm not confident in Trek's superiority.

I'm very sorry to tell you, but I've stepped into a "SW vs ST" arena years ago, and completely destroyed the ST side. Educate yourself. You can also have it in the short version of "Enterprise-D vs a Star Destroyer" right here. Or just read through this site.

And there is nothing in NuTrack that helps ST win.

You're right about so called NuTrek so far. You'd be completely and utterly wrong to argue for star wars in a full canon debate. Trek has beings that can wipe out entire civilizations with a mere thought.

Originally posted by Q99
Star Trek is a centuries old civilization with hundreds to maybe a thousand or so systems in the Federation, with ships around half a kilometer long.

Star Wars is a millennia old civilization with tens of thousands of systems (at least), and ships a kilometer and a half long.

They also have faster FTL drive.

So Wars has more resources, bigger ships, and more of them.


I agree with those who've noted the only way Trek would win is if Q got involved.


And, of course, oldTrek is stronger than NuTrek, because of course TNG's Federation is bigger with a larger fleet than NuTrek's old ships. So a new foe beating NuTrek doesn't exactly change the scales any.

Total nonsense. The Borg alone have stated numbers far in excess of Star Wars. Millions of planets, billions of ships and trillions of drones. By comparison the katana fleet in the thrawn trilogy was said to be able to change the balance of power in the galaxy and it was only 500 clone Wars era ships. Their most common vessel, the cube, is bigger in every dimension than a Star Destroyer is long. Transwarp hubs allows travel across a comparable sized galaxy in minutes. The Douwd wipe out entire species with a thought. The krenim can wipe out entire civilizations with their time weapon by erasing them from ever existing. An unnamed civilisation built a Dyson sphere in ST that was the size of earth's orbit around the sun. A feat that is several hundred thousand times larger than the death star. 7 Small single pilot species 8472 ships can combine and do what the death star can do. A small fleet of ships did to a planet in seconds what a Star Destroyer Base delta zero attack takes hours. The defiant alone is stated to be able to lay waste to a planet

Trek has Wars beaten in numbers, firepower, superpowered beings. Everything.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Meh, Star Wars will forever dwarf Star Trek imo, nothing will ever change that. Not gonna waste time arguing about it on a battle board.

It will probably always destroy it in popularity but in a battle that's another matter altogether. Arguing preferences is silly but arguing who wins carries with it glory. That's what battleboarders do.

Originally posted by Nai
Still not interested.



Click on the second link I've posted.
A single Star-Destroyer could probably wipe out the entire fleet of the Federation in a space battle. The Empire brings dozens of those (ROTJ) with Rebel ships to match them (Home One). Add Vader's flagship and two Death Stars. No contest. Why not ? It's a fair judged debate.


Ridiculous. I've seen Star Wars movies and acting like these ships are the end all be all is foolish. The destroyers are slow and aren't known for their combat speed. The Narada would wreck any destroyer. Absolutely decimate one.

The Death Stars can be brought down as well. Trek can create singularities and bring down anything along with teleportational abilities Wars doesn't have.


It's a shame you lack the stones to prove yourself. I walk the walk, amigo.

Originally posted by Q99
Star Trek is a centuries old civilization with hundreds to maybe a thousand or so systems in the Federation, with ships around half a kilometer long.

Star Wars is a millennia old civilization with tens of thousands of systems (at least), and ships a kilometer and a half long.

They also have faster FTL drive.

So Wars has more resources, bigger ships, and more of them.


I agree with those who've noted the only way Trek would win is if Q got involved.


And, of course, oldTrek is stronger than NuTrek, because of course TNG's Federation is bigger with a larger fleet than NuTrek's old ships. So a new foe beating NuTrek doesn't exactly change the scales any. Then accept.

One trilogy of your choosing versus NuTrek after Beyond hits this summer. If you're so sure of yourself you have no reason to back down, right ?

Originally posted by jaden101
You're right about so called NuTrek so far. You'd be completely and utterly wrong to argue for star wars in a full canon debate. Trek has beings that can wipe out entire civilizations with a mere thought.

Star Wars has beings that have complete control over space, time, matter and - unlike anybody we've seen in Star Trek, can bring back the dead.



You are aware of the fact, that Coruscant alone has more than a trillion inhabitants?. One single planet in the Star Wars universe. You were saying? And Star Wars, you know, spans an entire Galaxy, with the Republic alone having more than a million member systems. And this is just a momentary picture out of history that spans a 100,000 years with interstellar space-travel being used as long as 40,000 years at last.



You may want to check your facts before opening your mouth.
First: The Katana fleet just had 200 ships, of which 178 were active in Thrawn time. Second: They were just a "game changer" in the state of the Galaxy at that particular point. In the hight of the Galactic Empire, 200 capital ships of that size wouldn't even have been noticed given the size of the Imperial Navy.



And still, a Star Destroyer has the energy output of a small sun, which kind of dwarves everything the Borg have access to.



I think you wanted to say "days" and not "minutes", and just after those hubs have been installed. Otherwise a 10,000 lightyear journey takes even the Borg a year. Your usual hyperdrive in SW can do that in about an hour.



Emperor Vitiate (SW:TOR) has depopulized entire planets with Force rituals and was about to end all life in the SW Galaxy with one. And, unlike the Douwd, the Bedlam spirits of the SW universe were not only capable of killing with a thought - but ressurecting at will. Pretty much beyond anything ST has to offer.



Yup. That worked quite well for them, didn't it?



Nice.
Kuat Drive Yards, the facility that produces those nice Star Destroyers, is built as a connected ring orbiting a planet. The main idea about a Dyson sphere is harnessing all power a star puts out. The Star Forge and Starkiller base in the SW universe are capable of doing the same. The two Death Stars even produce far more power than your usual sun. And, by the way, the second Death Star was build in less than three years. I wonder how long the construction of the Dyson sphere took.

And of course, the SW universe has Centerpoint Station, a tech relic capable of moving planets around space with FTL speeds.



*Yawn*
The Sun Crusher, a virtual indestructible ship, could vaporize entire star systems by causing supernovas. It was just a little bit bigger than a starfighter, had just a single pilot and had to be navigated into a black hole in order to get rid of it.

And seriously: When did those bioships ever destroy a planet?



Really?
I'm not sure you even understand what "Base Delta Zero" means. It means reducing the top soil of the planet (to a depth of several kilometers) to molten slag. Depopulizing a planet or even destroying the surface is within the possibilities of todays humanity. A "Base Delta Zero" operation is not. And that is still nothing compared to the Death Stars, Starkiller base or the Sun Crusher.



In the mind of somebody who has clearly zero idea about the SWU, that might be the case...

Originally posted by quanchi112
Why not ? It's a fair judged debate.


Did I mention the lack of opponents?



The Narada wouldn't even get through a star destroyers shields. Once more: Star Destroyers generate about as much energy as our sun. They can channel most of that into their shields - 15,000 times as much energy as the Enterprise-D. So the Narada won't get through. In return, the firepower of a Star Destroyer would probably destroy the Narada with a single volley.



Apparently, you are still underestimating SW tech.
We see Nuclear Warheads (Photon Torpedos) tetonating on the surface of the Death Star and not doing significant damage. I wonder what ST weaponary would do agains that.



I really don't need to prove myself in the eyes of some random troll on the net, who couldn't even accept it, if I did.

Q can and has brought back the dead. iirc, the Duowd (sp?) also can.

The Romulan/Cardassian fleet from "Die is Cast" did heavy damage to a planet with their first volley. Though I don't recall the actual numbers.

At the end of "Scorpion" part 1, iirc, the bioships do their combo thing and destroy a planet, from which the Cube towing Voyager does a runner.

Originally posted by Nai
Did I mention the lack of opponents?



The Narada wouldn't even get through a star destroyers shields. Once more: Star Destroyers generate about as much energy as our sun. They can channel most of that into their shields - 15,000 times as much energy as the Enterprise-D. So the Narada won't get through. In return, the firepower of a Star Destroyer would probably destroy the Narada with a single volley.



Apparently, you are still underestimating SW tech.
We see Nuclear Warheads (Photon Torpedos) tetonating on the surface of the Death Star and not doing significant damage. I wonder what ST weaponary would do agains that.



I really don't need to prove myself in the eyes of some random troll on the net, who couldn't even accept it, if I did.

You backed down like you always do. You post and do your disappearing act.

Based on ? Star destroyers don't have the feats to back up your biased, wet dreams. The Starkiller has the power of a sun and that's the most powerful Star Wars weapon to date. We saw how indestructible that station turned out to be against a few guys with no real plan just show up and make things happen.


Two destroyers have be shown to be so laughable they couldn't stop from crashing into and destroying each other. The Narada decimated well ver two dozen Klingon war ships along with multiple Federation ships. Do not argue hyperbole but actually give an important instance of the destroyer doing something extraordinary.

NuTrek can create black holes. Bye, bye Death Star.

You never tire of just telling me how you'd win but never setting foot in the arena. A true coward through and through. Keep chirping, little birdie.

You are forgetting that the Narada has to use the drilling platform in order to use red matter. The Death Star would easily be able to destroy it.

No way the Narada can repel firepower of that magnitude.

Originally posted by playa1258
You are forgetting that the Narada has to use the drilling platform in order to use red matter. The Death Star would easily be able to destroy it.

No way the Narada can repel firepower of that magnitude. The jellyfish can use the red matter as well. They can teleport. The Narada would destroy the Death Star before it knew what hit it. But keep in mind you ain't seen nuthin' yet. Wait till behind hits because from what I've seen its going to get worse for Star Wars.

The jellyfish could be took out by Imperial fighters or turbolasers.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Q can and has brought back the dead. iirc, the Duowd (sp?) also can.


The Q had a war in which some of them died. So, apparently, they can't bring back the dead. And the entire story about the Douwd is, that they can't.



I highlighted the important part...



You're correct.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You backed down like you always do. You post and do your disappearing act.


There is no point in going on after winning (or after having no more use for cheap entertainment).



Based on firepower, shield capacities and other things that require power.

Here you have a breakdown of firepower from blaster guns to the Death Star laser. Here is another overview regarding power generation. Almost everything done with nothing but evidence from the OT.



Yeah.
Except for the fact that they didn't crash into eachother and weren't destroyed.

KvJDItC6tE0

Maybe you want to stop talking about stuff you have clearly no idea about (e.g. Star Wars and virtually everything else)?



Did I mention already, that the energy output of a Star Destroyer is 15,000 times as high as that of your usual Federation ship? So you may want to give me a call when the Narada solos entire NuTrek fleets with single shots, which is the kind of firepower that is required to get through a Star Destroyers shields.



I beg to differ: NuTrek can create one black hole. And while I'd love to read how exactly they would get that nice red matter anywhere close to a Death Star in order to do the job, it would just be enough for one Death Star. Which leaves a second Death Star, the Executor and the rest of the Imperial Navy and Rebel fleet.



Yeah.
I'm very well aware of your cognitive disfunctions, but just to point it out for you: I'm just arguing SW vs ST with you now and am winning. And the result will still be the same in summer. So the "fight" is over before it has started. But thanks for playing. Maybe someone accepts your challenge, giving that "winning" can now be done by linking my posts here.

Originally posted by Nai
Star Wars has beings that have complete control over space, time, matter and - unlike anybody we've seen in Star Trek, can bring back the dead.



You are aware of the fact, that Coruscant alone has more than a trillion inhabitants?. One single planet in the Star Wars universe. You were saying? And Star Wars, you know, spans an entire Galaxy, with the Republic alone having more than a million member systems. And this is just a momentary picture out of history that spans a 100,000 years with interstellar space-travel being used as long as 40,000 years at last.



You may want to check your facts before opening your mouth.
First: The Katana fleet just had 200 ships, of which 178 were active in Thrawn time. Second: They were just a "game changer" in the state of the Galaxy at that particular point. In the hight of the Galactic Empire, 200 capital ships of that size wouldn't even have been noticed given the size of the Imperial Navy.



And still, a Star Destroyer has the energy output of a small sun, which kind of dwarves everything the Borg have access to.



I think you wanted to say "days" and not "minutes", and just after those hubs have been installed. Otherwise a 10,000 lightyear journey takes even the Borg a year. Your usual hyperdrive in SW can do that in about an hour.



Emperor Vitiate (SW:TOR) has depopulized entire planets with Force rituals and was about to end all life in the SW Galaxy with one. And, unlike the Douwd, the Bedlam spirits of the SW universe were not only capable of killing with a thought - but ressurecting at will. Pretty much beyond anything ST has to offer.



Yup. That worked quite well for them, didn't it?



Nice.
Kuat Drive Yards, the facility that produces those nice Star Destroyers, is built as a connected ring orbiting a planet. The main idea about a Dyson sphere is harnessing all power a star puts out. The Star Forge and Starkiller base in the SW universe are capable of doing the same. The two Death Stars even produce far more power than your usual sun. And, by the way, the second Death Star was build in less than three years. I wonder how long the construction of the Dyson sphere took.

And of course, the SW universe has Centerpoint Station, a tech relic capable of moving planets around space with FTL speeds.



*Yawn*
The Sun Crusher, a virtual indestructible ship, could vaporize entire star systems by causing supernovas. It was just a little bit bigger than a starfighter, had just a single pilot and had to be navigated into a black hole in order to get rid of it.

And seriously: When did those bioships ever destroy a planet?



Really?
I'm not sure you even understand what "Base Delta Zero" means. It means reducing the top soil of the planet (to a depth of several kilometers) to molten slag. Depopulizing a planet or even destroying the surface is within the possibilities of todays humanity. A "Base Delta Zero" operation is not. And that is still nothing compared to the Death Stars, Starkiller base or the Sun Crusher.



In the mind of somebody who has clearly zero idea about the SWU, that might be the case...

You clearly have no clue what you're talking about as almost everything you stated is factually incorrect.

Originally posted by Nai
The Q had a war in which some of them died. So, apparently, they can't bring back the dead. And the entire story about the Douwd is, that they can't.



I highlighted the important part...



You're correct.

How does Q dying mean they can't bring back the dead?

It being a fleet matters? All right...

I'd forgotten that about the Duowd; my bad.

Originally posted by Nai
There is no point in going on after winning (or after having no more use for cheap entertainment).



Based on firepower, shield capacities and other things that require power.

Here you have a breakdown of firepower from blaster guns to the Death Star laser. Here is another overview regarding power generation. Almost everything done with nothing but evidence from the OT.



Yeah.
Except for the fact that they didn't crash into eachother and weren't destroyed.



Maybe you want to stop talking about stuff you have clearly no idea about (e.g. Star Wars and virtually everything else)?



Did I mention already, that the energy output of a Star Destroyer is 15,000 times as high as that of your usual Federation ship? So you may want to give me a call when the Narada solos entire NuTrek fleets with single shots, which is the kind of firepower that is required to get through a Star Destroyers shields.



I beg to differ: NuTrek can create one black hole. And while I'd love to read how exactly they would get that nice red matter anywhere close to a Death Star in order to do the job, it would just be enough for one Death Star. Which leaves a second Death Star, the Executor and the rest of the Imperial Navy and Rebel fleet.



Yeah.
I'm very well aware of your cognitive disfunctions, but just to point it out for you: I'm just arguing SW vs ST with you now and am winning. And the result will still be the same in summer. So the "fight" is over before it has started. But thanks for playing. Maybe someone accepts your challenge, giving that "winning" can now be done by linking my posts here. You can give all the excuses you want but don't think for a nanosecond you're fooling me.

That is nerd speculative propaganda. Star Wars is a Sci and fantasy film. It's mystical and non progressive all rolled into one. What matters is portrayal, abilities, and how these things stack up. In this debate you'd be hard pressed to prove how awesome a destroyer is on screen. You can rant and rave about whatever mathematical hocus pocus you want but they just aren't impressive. Ffs they can't even manage to take the Millenium Falcon half the time.


My iPad deleted the word almost. My point was we see how utterly zombiesque they are in their manuverability. It's downright pathetic. Your clip shows how immobile they are. They are gigantic targets and nothing more.


Again another silly little unproven number you're tossing around as a fact. Portrayals and actual feats matter not nerd speculation on a Sci Fi and fantasy film. The rebels have embarrassed the empire on how many occasions ? Han Solo provided Luke Skywalker amidst a ragtag bunch of rebels the necessary assistance to outdo Darth Vader and destroy the Death Star.

The scene even further highlights the mystical aspect when he shuts off his targeting system to use the damn force.



The Narada has the showings the star destroyers, hell even the Death Star can't add to its resume.


All they need is a few drops of red matter. Did you see the size of the tube which shows how many different black hole servings that would be in store for the empire.


The rebels sure got close enough to and destroyed the Death Star. You do realize the NuTrek third film is going to give them thousand of new small ships per the new director. Are you connecting the dots yet ? Of course you aren't.

You already lost and the funny thing is I don't ever reveal my aces in the hole until the actual battlezone commences. The only thing you've done is nerd speculate and ignore how the films portray the Star Wars ships; pathetic and incompetent just like yourself. There's a certain arrogance that pervaded from the top (emperor) all the way down to the stormtrooper grunts who were routed by friggin ewoks up until they lost to the embarrassing rebel alliance.

Ewoks, dude.

Originally posted by jaden101
You clearly have no clue what you're talking about as almost everything you stated is factually incorrect.

Oh. Well.
We've seen that the last time when we discussed the topic, which was you pointing to non-existant "explanations" and assuming that power generation for SW ships is given in "watts per lifetime".
Maybe you just want to get out before you hurt yourself. And thanks for that great counter to my arguments, Sir.


Originally posted by quanchi112
You can give all the excuses you want but don't think for a nanosecond you're fooling me.





That "mathematical hocus pocus", otherwise none as hard facts is clearly beyond your mental faculties. That doesn't make it less correct. And, well. You want to know how awesome Star Destroyers are? They carry that name for a reason, you know?

Furthermore is it rather silly to base arguments on rather emotional categories ("they don't look impressive". In fact, that's exactly what people do who lack the intellect to perform more abstract thinking. Thanks for outing yourself as one of the kind.



I have the feeling that your iPad did also delete most of the reasonable thoughts you - of course - had written down somewhere.

When talking about manouverability, you would need a reference point...for 1.6 kilometer long starships. I'm not sure that the NuTrek films offer much in comparison. Oh. Well. It does. The USS Vengeance. Which was, essentiall, hanging around in space like a big target. Not that the other ships weren't doing much in terms of "manouvers", with Spock's spacefighter sized vessel being the sole exception.



Mathematics still aren't "nerd speculation".
And the Rebels did "embarrass" the Empire three times. In ANH because of exploiting a heat vent with a shot that should have been impossible, but wasn't because...



...as you highlighted so kindly, they were essentially attacked by a space wizzard. In ESB they are "embarrased" because some of the commanding officers made a mistake (leaving hyperspace too early, given the Rebels time to activate their planetary shielding). And in ROTJ they "embarrass" the Empire, because Sidious gets cocky (withholding the firepower of the entire fleet from the final engagement). None of that would happen in a space-battle between those universes.



Laughable. I will tell you why...



Urm. No.
What they do need, is drilling into the core of a planet and inject the red matter there in order to create a black hole. If they could just put a few drops of it anywhere, there would be no need to drill into the planet core in order to create a black hole (e.g. on the surface) and destroy the planet with it.

We see what happens, when the stuff (and a rather large quantity of it) is put at a random place. It does generate something similar to a black hole, yes. But using all red matter present in the movie. So they can do that once in space.

And they would still need to get rather close to the Death Star in order to get the job done - with the entire SW fleet in their way. Not much of an option.



Urm.

"The battle station is heavily shielded and carries a firepower greater than half the star fleet. It's defenses are designed around a direct large-scale assault. A small one-man fighter should be able to penetrate the outer defense." - Admiral Dodonna, Star Wars - Episode IV: A new hope.

Emphasis mine. I haven't seen much "small one man fighters" in the NuTrek universe. And then, the Rebels just made it because there wasn't an entire Fleet protecting the Death Star, which would be the case in our little scenario.

And you do realize that the shot that destroyed the Death Star was impossible without the use of the Force? You know...launching torpedos that do a 90 degree turn with perfect timing to travel down a 80-kilometer-shaft to blow up the Death Star. So, pray tell: Does the next Star Trek film feature Jedi or Sith?



What I ignore is your idea of how the films portray the ships. Or, to be more accurate, that those things manouverability isn't expected to be that high (size!) and doesn't even matter, considering what they are built for (firepower, shielding).

Urm. And you do realize that the Ewoks are being totally decimated, before Chewbacca takes over the AT-ST and attacks the Imperial troops, despite the fact that they outnumbered the Stormtroopers? Just asking...

Did you even see one of the Star Wars movies?

Star Wars wins imo. They have more firepower

I'd give it to Star Trek myself

Originally posted by Nai
Oh. Well.
We've seen that the last time when we discussed the topic, which was you pointing to non-existant "explanations" and assuming that power generation for SW ships is given in "watts per lifetime".
Maybe you just want to get out before you hurt yourself. And thanks for that great counter to my arguments, Sir.








That "mathematical hocus pocus", otherwise none as hard facts is clearly beyond your mental faculties. That doesn't make it less correct. And, well. You want to know how awesome Star Destroyers are? They carry that name for a reason, you know?

Furthermore is it rather silly to base arguments on rather emotional categories ("they don't look impressive". In fact, that's exactly what people do who lack the intellect to perform more abstract thinking. Thanks for outing yourself as one of the kind.



I have the feeling that your iPad did also delete most of the reasonable thoughts you - of course - had written down somewhere.

When talking about manouverability, you would need a reference point...for 1.6 kilometer long starships. I'm not sure that the NuTrek films offer much in comparison. Oh. Well. It does. The USS Vengeance. Which was, essentiall, hanging around in space like a big target. Not that the other ships weren't doing much in terms of "manouvers", with Spock's spacefighter sized vessel being the sole exception.



Mathematics still aren't "nerd speculation".
And the Rebels did "embarrass" the Empire three times. In ANH because of exploiting a heat vent with a shot that should have been impossible, but wasn't because...



...as you highlighted so kindly, they were essentially attacked by a space wizzard. In ESB they are "embarrased" because some of the commanding officers made a mistake (leaving hyperspace too early, given the Rebels time to activate their planetary shielding). And in ROTJ they "embarrass" the Empire, because Sidious gets cocky (withholding the firepower of the entire fleet from the final engagement). None of that would happen in a space-battle between those universes.



Laughable. I will tell you why...



Urm. No.
What they do need, is drilling into the core of a planet and inject the red matter there in order to create a black hole. If they could just put a few drops of it anywhere, there would be no need to drill into the planet core in order to create a black hole (e.g. on the surface) and destroy the planet with it.

We see what happens, when the stuff (and a rather large quantity of it) is put at a random place. It does generate something similar to a black hole, yes. But using all red matter present in the movie. So they can do that once in space.

And they would still need to get rather close to the Death Star in order to get the job done - with the entire SW fleet in their way. Not much of an option.



Urm.

"The battle station is heavily shielded and carries a firepower greater than half the star fleet. It's defenses are designed around a direct large-scale assault. A small one-man fighter should be able to penetrate the outer defense." - Admiral Dodonna, Star Wars - Episode IV: A new hope.

Emphasis mine. I haven't seen much "small one man fighters" in the NuTrek universe. And then, the Rebels just made it because there wasn't an entire Fleet protecting the Death Star, which would be the case in our little scenario.

And you do realize that the shot that destroyed the Death Star was impossible without the use of the Force? You know...launching torpedos that do a 90 degree turn with perfect timing to travel down a 80-kilometer-shaft to blow up the Death Star. So, pray tell: Does the next Star Trek film feature Jedi or Sith?



What I ignore is your idea of how the films portray the ships. Or, to be more accurate, that those things manouverability isn't expected to be that high (size!) and doesn't even matter, considering what they are built for (firepower, shielding).

Urm. And you do realize that the Ewoks are being totally decimated, before Chewbacca takes over the AT-ST and attacks the Imperial troops, despite the fact that they outnumbered the Stormtroopers? Just asking...

Did you even see one of the Star Wars movies?

A movie with a big emphasis on fantasy has nothing to do with the real world, fanboy. So now you're going to rely on their name as a debating point. That's how far gone you are when you've actually just said, hey they are called the star destroyers for a reason. That's not how debating works. We rely on portrayals, abilities, and feats.


Dude, this is the same universe where primitive ewoks can beat the shit out of trained Stormtroopers. If you think this is realistic I'd suggest coming back to reality. My debating is consistent while yours isn't but what makes this even more interesting is the fact you won't accept the challenge.

Ad hominem attack which doesn't undermine the clear point they are very slow maneuverability wise.

We see USS Vengeance is very impressive in terms of combat speed and in terms of what it can tank while still partially working. The destroyers not so much. You see the weapons Khan built were more impressive combat wise than Wars here. Look at his guns, his torpedoes, and his ship. Sorry, but Wars doesn't have Khan. Shame. You've had wookiees still using the the cross casters for 60 years.


Space wizards were annihilated by clones in rots. They are a myth to the general public in the new episode because they are that rare. The only reason the space wizard had the opportunity was due to the skill and interjection of Han Solo. I'm glad you agreed Sidious is a cocky, stupid fool in that scene. Guess who is more ruthless, Khan. Guess who can teleport, Trek. Guess who has better tech, Trek.
Wars has greater numbers but it looks like Beyond has at the least 4,000 plus ships to aid to its arsenal per the director.

Do tell.

False, and you need to see the film again. We see its used minus drilling into the center of the planets. We also see Spock Prime use it to stop the supernova. We see it used multiple instances thereafter as well as in space.

With thousands of Star Trek ships as well as massive ships along with it and I don't see the problem. Oh yeah, teleportation. The tie fighters are still being used 30 some years later after ROTJ. Trek has already progressed after Narada came into the screen. Lucky for you Marcus didn't get his wish and militarize Starfleet but even at this point with their enemies they still come out on top.

You haven't seen the Star Trek Beyond trailer then. As I've said we see very small enemy ships and the director per interview said in the one scene there are 4,000 of them.


It was hard in the situation Luke was in but it wasn't impossible. You see in Trek when Kirk's navigational system went out he needed Khan's assistance but in Star Wars they go with the force. Trek will make it a mathematical certainty they hit their target. Dude, the Jedi and Sith were down for a reason. Trek will absolutely rape the Sith and Jedi in either trilogy.


They can be built for firepower and shielding all they want. They haven't withstood the tech from trek. Hell, as I've pointed out we see Han and Chewie using the same weapons for over three decades. Trek tech progresses and quickly. Wars occasionally gets greater super weapons but those are few and far between. They've also been easily taken down by just a small handful of rebels. The training, tech, and personnel on board in one of these trek ships is enough to make Star Wars blush. I mean you have Han Solo mid battle using wrenches to fix things during mid battle so how bad can it be.


So a few rebels can turn the tide just taking over one of their vehicles. That's my point. Ewoks still posed a threat despite the tech edge and all it took was a few others. Throw the Klingons at the Ewoks and they'd eat them for breakfast.

Trek wins, it's just superior.

Originally posted by quanchi112
A movie with a big emphasis on fantasy has nothing to do with the real world, fanboy. So now you're going to rely on their name as a debating point. That's how far gone you are when you've actually just said, hey they are called the star destroyers for a reason. That's not how debating works. We rely on portrayals, abilities, and feats.

Urm. Yes.
If a Star Destroyer is capable of vaporizing asteroids the size of the Millenium Falcon using their light weapons, this is some impressive display of firepower. If they can fly through a rather dense asteroid field for days without getting their ships destroyed, this is an impressive display of their shields capacities. The math just serves to illustrate how impressive that is exactly.

And proclaiming that some fantasy movie has nothing to do with the real world is rather idiotic. We can only use our real world as reference point to judge and interprete the action happening on screen. I prefer using math and physics - you prefere using your opinion and "impressions" you gained from the movies, that don't have much to do with the stuff actually happening on screen.



Except for the fact that they can't. The Stormtroopers are beaten by Chewbacca highjacking an AT-ST and taking squads of them down, as well as taking another AT-ST out. Before that the Ewoks - while outnumbering the Stormtroopers - are getting stomped. So do I consider it realistic, that the imperial troops can be beaten if somebody uses their own equipment against them, especially when that somebody uses an armored vehicle against infantery? Yes.




Which still doesn't matter, because manouverability is a complete non-issue, as they don't need it to attack (vast firepower) nor defend (shields) and, furthermore, carry TIE-Fighters to do the job when manouverability does become an issue.



That translates into "manouverability" how exactly? It can fly in a straight line. Which is great. If Warp combat speed (read FTL speed) would be any good in a space battle where your target doesn't move at FTL speed, mentioning the combat speed would make sense.

In this case, they would be forced to move on impulse speed. And well. The USS Vengeance doesn't even manage to take out an unshielded Enterprise after half a minute of firing at it. And that is the most advanced spacecraft the Federation has to offer so far.

In comparison: The light turbolasers of a Star Destroyer deal compareable damage to the fire of the USS Vengeance. And there are dozens of Star Destroyers in the OT, when there is only one USS Vengeance.




See above.
Again, you cast your judgement based on personal feelings ("they look impressive", rather than taking a step back and accepting the real facts. The USS Vengeance and the weapons on the ship look impressive in the NuTrek universe. Compared to the firepower of a Star Destroyer, you're dealing with a toy.



Yes.
"In that scene" being the important part of your statement. Because this is the same Sidious that manouvered himself into the position of Emperor via ruthless political planning and causing a Galaxy scale war. Compared to the high ranking commanders in the Empire, Khan is a sissy. I didn't see Khan killing billions just to make a point, where Tarkin destroyed Alderaan. I didn't see Khan slaughtering children like Vader did in RotS or attempting to kill the people close to him (likewise Vader in RotS with both Padme and Obi-Wan). Instead, he failed because of wanting to save his crew. Ruthless? Laughable.



Urm.
We see the red matter in use on three occassions.

1)
Narada drilling into the core of Vulcan and shooting red matter into the hole.

2)
Spock launching some of it into a supernova.

3)
Spock's ship crashing into the Narada.

What of these do you think is applicable in a space-battle between SW and ST forces? I mean: Obviously, the effects of the red matter are generated via some antimatter-matter reaction (as it is transported in a vacuum). So simply launching it into space will do jack shit. It needs to get in contact with other matter in order to "ignite". Whether this will work on a shielded target (any SW ship) is everyone's guess.

But even assuming that it will. How do you think it will get there? With those rather slow torpedos they fire? By flying Spock's ship through a cloud of starfighters and capital ships? Just asking.



You do realize that Star Wars ships are constantly emitting jamming signals? So I'd say that transportation would be rather hard to do. And even if it should work. Where is the point in using teleportation? Sending boarding parties to ships that carry ten-thousand (Star Destroyers) or millions (Death Stars) of troops?

And even if somebody gets particularly clever (e.g. devising a plan to beam red matter "bombs" into SW ships) they wouldn't have time to realize such a plan, as the SW armarda would reduce ST to space dust in under a minute.



You do realize that, just because something looks like something else, they don't have to be the same thing. And in case of the TIE-fighters they added a gunner to the pilot and equipped the things with weapon that could fire forward and backward. Furthermore you do realize that one doesn't need to "progress" from technical inventions when something works rather fine? Especially not in a conflict with a technologically inferior enemy...like the ST universe.



Oh. I have. And I can just ask: Where is the point?



Impossible for everyone not being a force user.



Yes. You pointing out the lack of progression is of no use, when there is going to be no progression in this fight. They come to the battle, they fight. They don't stick to some planets to develop new superweapons in R&D. And "few" superweapons are clearly better than zero superwapons.

And, well. A single Star Wars ship, powered by a "miniature sun" does still put every ST ship to shame. After a minute, the battlefield will look like the orbit of Vulcan. Destroyed ST ships everywhere...



They took over one of the three AT-STs present and destroyed one of the other two with it. And geez. Did I miss the Klingon armies in NuTrek so far? Because SW fields quite a lot of ground forces and military personal and vessels for ground combat where NuTrek has...a hand full of troops?

Originally posted by Nai
Urm. Yes.
If a Star Destroyer is capable of vaporizing asteroids the size of the Millenium Falcon using their light weapons, this is some impressive display of firepower. If they can fly through a rather dense asteroid field for days without getting their ships destroyed, this is an impressive display of their shields capacities. The math just serves to illustrate how impressive that is exactly.

And proclaiming that some fantasy movie has nothing to do with the real world is rather idiotic. We can only use our real world as reference point to judge and interprete the action happening on screen. I prefer using math and physics - you prefere using your opinion and "impressions" you gained from the movies, that don't have much to do with the stuff actually happening on screen.



Except for the fact that they can't. The Stormtroopers are beaten by Chewbacca highjacking an AT-ST and taking squads of them down, as well as taking another AT-ST out. Before that the Ewoks - while outnumbering the Stormtroopers - are getting stomped. So do I consider it realistic, that the imperial troops can be beaten if somebody uses their own equipment against them, especially when that somebody uses an armored vehicle against infantery? Yes.




Which still doesn't matter, because manouverability is a complete non-issue, as they don't need it to attack (vast firepower) nor defend (shields) and, furthermore, carry TIE-Fighters to do the job when manouverability does become an issue.



That translates into "manouverability" how exactly? It can fly in a straight line. Which is great. If Warp combat speed (read FTL speed) would be any good in a space battle where your target doesn't move at FTL speed, mentioning the combat speed would make sense.

In this case, they would be forced to move on impulse speed. And well. The USS Vengeance doesn't even manage to take out an unshielded Enterprise after half a minute of firing at it. And that is the most advanced spacecraft the Federation has to offer so far.

In comparison: The light turbolasers of a Star Destroyer deal compareable damage to the fire of the USS Vengeance. And there are dozens of Star Destroyers in the OT, when there is only one USS Vengeance.




See above.
Again, you cast your judgement based on personal feelings ("they look impressive", rather than taking a step back and accepting the real facts. The USS Vengeance and the weapons on the ship look impressive in the NuTrek universe. Compared to the firepower of a Star Destroyer, you're dealing with a toy.



Yes.
"In that scene" being the important part of your statement. Because this is the same Sidious that manouvered himself into the position of Emperor via ruthless political planning and causing a Galaxy scale war. Compared to the high ranking commanders in the Empire, Khan is a sissy. I didn't see Khan killing billions just to make a point, where Tarkin destroyed Alderaan. I didn't

3)
Spock's ship crashing into the Narada.

What of these do you think is applicable in a space-battle between SW and ST forces? I mean: Obviously, the effects of the red matter are generated via some antimatter-matter reaction (as it is transported in a vacuum). So simply launching it into space will do jack shit. It needs to get in contact with other matter in order to "ignite". Whether this will work on a shielded target (any SW ship) is everyone's guess.

But even assuming that it will. How do you think it will get there? With those rather slow torpedos they fire? By flying Spock's ship through a cloud of starfighters and capital ships? Just asking.



You do realize that Star Wars ships are constantly emitting jamming signals? So I'd say that transportation would be rather hard to do. And even if it should work. Where is the point in using teleportation? Sending boarding parties to ships that carry ten-thousand (Star Destroyers) or millions (Death Stars) of troops? same thing. And in case of the TIE-fighters they added a gunner to the pilot and equipped the things with weapon that could fire forward and backward. Furthermore you do realize that one doesn't need to "progress" from technical inventions when something works rather fine? Especially not in a conflict with a technologically inferior enemy...like the ST universe.



Oh. I have. And I can just ask: Where is the point?



Impossible for everyone not being a force user.



Yes. You pointing out the lack of progression is of no use, when there is going to be no progression in this fight. They come to the battle, they fight. They don't stick to some planets to develop new superweapons in R&D. And "few" superweapons are clearly better than zero superwapons.

And, well. A single Star Wars ship, powered by a "miniature sun" does still put every ST ship to shame. After a minute, the battlefield will look like the orbit of Vulcan. Destroyed ST ships everywhere...



They took over one of the three AT-STs present and destroyed one of the other two with it. And geez. Did I miss the Klingon armies in NuTrek so far? Because SW fields quite a lot of ground forces and military personal and vessels for ground combat where NuTrek has...a hand full of troops?

What does destroying an asteroid have to do with destroyed a shielded Star Trek ship ? Not really. It just shows their ships can tank asteroids which isn't the same thing as the phasers aboard the enterprise firing or the Khan torpedoes, etc.

I prefer using comparisons in the film and actually what we see them do against ships not made up numbers that don't match up with how things operate in reality.


We see many Stormtroopers taken down by ewoks. We see a ragtag bunch aid in takin the At St and then using this to turn dominate the battlefield. They weren't getting stomped. Their primitive weapons even took out a few. One piece of equipment turned against them really shows how weak they are since they had multiple pieces of said equipment in the first place on their side.

They are sitting targets and haven't shown capable of tanking NuTrek ships. the Narada decimated federation ships and over 30 Klingon ships as well. It did so easily. That's called an impressive ship. Name something one destroyer did anywhere near as impressive. We haven't seen anywhere near as many tie fighters as we have seen from the Beyond ships.

Based on what can it only go in a straight line ? You'd need to prove this claim. when do we see firing for 30 seconds on the enterprise ?

Based on ?

Lol. In the Star Wars universe the bow caster is a powerful weapon whereas Khan has a gun that takes down Klingon shops with a single shot. That's the same as the Trek super ships such as the Narada and the Vengeance. The star destroyers did what again exactly on screen ?

That's neither here nor there as this is a space battle not a playground for him to act in his own benefit with access to his enemies inner thoughts and plans. Khan decimated his universes Palpatine and killed him personally. He's smarter than any clod in the imperial empire. Tarkin was destroyed on his Death Star due to his own arrogance. Khan acted alone whereas Tarkin had the backing of an empire, a powerful battle station against a ragtag group of rebels and he still lost. Tarkin didn't even design the Death Star. Khan would make the empire envious due to his intelligence and ruthlessness.


Yeah Vader killing kids with thousands of clones storming the temple is something you would marvel at.

Nero killed billions and intended on killing more. Khan cared for his crew and Vader cared and wanted to save his own son. If Khan and Vader don't care about you they'll both kill you so let's not act like his crew is on the Star Wars side. They aren't. They stare numerous times how ruthless he is but you pretending he isn't further shows your despicable bias.

2) we see a small amount create a black hole when Spock uses it thus only a small amount is needed. They don't need to go planet to planet here but rather take out the major pieces of the imperial army via battle stations, ships. We already know that when it hits something it reacts to the black hole would take whatever Star Wars ship or battlestation it came into contact with. Your denial of this given further demonstrates your bias.

Teleporting weapons, men, etc.

So you don't think in thirty years their tech should dramatically improve. Lol. It isn't realistic but it's only a negative point for Star Wars since trek precog fesses quite quickly. Ridiculous. Teleportation, black hole weapons, time travel etc. it isn't close tech wise.

A large number of Star Trek mini ships you've been saying they don't have.

Not for Star Trek tech which would make it clear with a mathematical certainty.

Hyperbole and silly. The empire couldn't reduce the rebels to that but trek ship did so on screen. That's evidence whereas your speculation isn't. I have proof to substantiate my claims whereas you don't. The rebellion was pathetic and awful and yet the empire failed to smash it.

They don't need Klingon armies to win. We do see some Klingons, and had over thirty ships mentioned in the first. The sheer numbers Trek will show off in the third film.


That's the thing too we know the major powerhouses in the wars universe but are just discovering more elite forces in the trek universe as in the third film. Just wait and see.

Originally posted by playa1258
The jellyfish could be took out by Imperial fighters or turbolasers. Add 4,000 ships of around 40 feet at least to Trek's side. Things aren't looking good for the empire. The frontier pushes back.

Bill Nye further reiterates my point that Star Wars is magical aka fantasy based a lot more so than Star Trek ever was showing Nai he's wrong and completely delusional.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/12/28/bill-nye-on-star-trek-vs-star-wars?utm_source=IGN%20hub%20page&utm_medium=IGN%20(front%20page)&utm_content=7&utm_campaign=Blogroll


Take your humiliation out of my thread you coward.

Star Trek tech sh_ts on Star Wars tech.

Originally posted by Bentley
Star Trek tech sh_ts on Star Wars tech. Nai believes otherwise but he's extremely biased and cowardly so don't expect him to back up his own crazy stances.

Originally posted by quanchi112
What does destroying an asteroid have to do with destroyed a shielded Star Trek ship ? Not really. It just shows their ships can tank asteroids which isn't the same thing as the phasers aboard the enterprise firing or the Khan torpedoes, etc.

I prefer using comparisons in the film and actually what we see them do against ships not made up numbers that don't match up with how things operate in reality.


You do realize, that one needs to compare those two universe on some basis, right as virtually everything works differently within them.

But for reference: Watch "The Empire strikes Back", the scene in which the AT-AT destroys the Rebel shield generator. Two bolts are fired. Them exploding on the generator lights up the entire screen for several frames...

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/NaiFohl/vlcsnap-0494-04-17-00h48m35s260.jpg

The resulting explosion is not only pretty gigantic but also destroys the entire building.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/NaiFohl/vlcsnap-0553-06-13-07h09m20s530.jpg

Now those weapons a toys compared to the stuff mounted on star-ships, in particular the heavy turbolasers of the Star Destroyers. Just to give you an impression, here is the size of the guns of a Venator-class in comparison to the Jedi starfighters of Obi-Wan and Anakin:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/NaiFohl/Turbolaser-Size1.jpg

Close up:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/NaiFohl/Turbolaser-Size2.jpg

The gun barrels are roughly the size of a Jedi Starfighter cockpit in diameter. So. Those things are massive. But we just see a real "main weapon" fired once in the movies. In the opening sequence of "Revenge of the Sith", where one of the Venator-class destroyers does actually fire one of its heavy weapons, located on the underside of the ship. Here is the shot:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/NaiFohl/Fire2.jpg

And here the result:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb366/NaiFohl/Fire3.jpg


As you can see, the beam just rips the target ship into pieces, generating a massive explosion in the process. By the mere size of that, it would probably blast ships the size of the Enterprise into bits with a single beam.




Excuse me. What we see is Stormtroopers being hit by primitive weapons, which don't means they get killed, even if they do fall to the ground temporarily. The pretty much only Ewok kills are two speeder pilots (one exploding with his speeder, the other being violently thrown from his vehicle). The rest of the Stormtroopers being hit...probably not so much...

The only real impressive thing the Ewoks do is destroying the other two AT-STs (one with logs on the ground "tripping" it, the other with logs collding against it both sides simultaneously, destroying it).



A ragtag bunch? I wonder who you are referring to? The Ewok warriors, that were in state of constant war in the years before the events in RotJ? The century old Wookie warrior Chewbacca? The war experienced Rebels?



There was just one AT-ST in the immediate vincity of the bunker. It gets hijacked by a Wookie swinging on top and Ewoks luring the personal out. Who should have predicted something like that? That's like saying Khan is a moron because of falling for the final trick in "Into Darkness".



And the NuTrek ships haven't been shown capable of tanking anything. At least the Star Wars ships can survive space-battles for a rather long time period, where engagements in space in the NuTrek universe are over in seconds, because their ships - shields up or down - can just take a few hits - that usually bypass the shielding anyway.



The Narada is one of ships in the NuTrek that can actually keep up with SW ships in terms of firepower (one or two hits to destroy other ST vessels). It is still quite laughable, which is seen in the scene where they "fire everything they have" on Spock's approaching ship. Which translates into 20 torpedos that slowly crawl through space, which allows the Enterprise to intercept them all with ease.



I never said, that it can only go in a straight line. I said that, based on the manouverability we see in the movies, they don't do much else. And there is a scene in "Into Darkness" where the Vengeance follows the Enterprise into warp and fires on it for 30 seconds until the Enterprise drops out of the warp field.



Nice move to compare something clearly not build as an portable infantry weapon (Khan's boolean gun) to a much smaller weapon (bow caster). Khan's gun is about the size of ground vehicle weapon of the SW universe and those are perfectly capable of taking out vehicles or even destroy buildings. And Khan's gun doesn't destroy the Klingon ships - Khan's aiming just is good enough to kill the pilots .



Seriously, Quan?
Comparing Marcus to Palpatine is laughable, especially in terms of personal combat skill. I won't deny that Khan is probably the greatest tactical mind involved in a confrontation between the two movie universes. It just won't do him any good, because of the SW universes advantage in terms of warfare related technology.



We were talking about ruthlessness. He went into the Council's chamber alone to kill the Padawans, if I may remind you.



Once more. We were talking about ruthlessness. Nero wanted revenge. Tarkin blew up Alderaan without any emotion, just to get some information from Leia. Khan doesn't compare in that regard, which is not saying that he isn't ruthless - just that he isn't outright evil (Vader isn't either).




I've specifically asked how they would bring it in contact with ships and battle stations, so saying that I'm ignoring that is rather laughable.

Once more: To ships with ten-thousands (Star Destroyers) or millions (Death Star) of crew members / soldiers on board? Rather futile.



You may want to think on what level of "tech" they actually are and care about improvements, rather than ignoring them (see TIE-Fighter example that you now ignore). And all the concepts you mention are parts of the SW universe - they just aren't used in the movies.

You may want to think about the fact, that the Empire apparently managed to construct the second Death Star, with a radius of 960 kilometers in the time frame of three years at some remote location to get an idea of their technical capabilities.




Techically speaken, they don't have them now. And we don't know what they are capable of. Which doesn't matter for my original argument regarding those fighters (in relation to the destruction of the Death Star): They would need a force user to handle the impossible shot that destroyed the battlestation.



I don't even know what you're talking about. Structure your posts.



Oh my god.
They couldn't reduce the Rebels to that, because the Rebels were utilizing the same advanced technology in terms of weapons and shielding that Star Trek doesn't have.

And anything here is "speculation" since you don't have "proof" that an ST ship could take on a SW ship, no matter how much ships they can take out in their own respective universe.



I never denied that Star Trek is more "scientific" in a sense. That, kind of, is the point: SW weapons can do stuff that is astonishing because they are more on the fantasy side of things.

But you can educate yourself right here.

Nai, this isn't a debate this is just a challenge issued thread. I'm not having an all out debate now. You can accept and use these posts in the battlezone though. I'll destroy these biased and ridiculous exaggerations but I'm not showing my aces now just to show you up. Just take these two posts since you claim this is easy and copy and paste them there. Since you said there is no evidence to rebut this you'll win. You already did the homework required Iyo so there's no excuse not to copy and paste these posts for our official debate.

Do you accept the challenge ??

Also star destroyer.net is hilariously biased and I've heard of arguments from morons on there where they argue Stormtroopers beat Spider-Man and the Hulk.

Just accept the challenge and we can do this over the summer. Just copy and paste. You have no excuse not to accept now. I mean look at the size of their weapons




Ps. Don't be a chicken, mcfly.

Not reading back, but can you give a single good reason why anyone would want to do a BZ with you when you almost never finish one? You get stumped on questions/points you can't counter and instead of conceding the match like a gentlemen, you dodge or you bail and stop posting altogether

You're begging people to commit their time and effort and you already have one foot out the door before it starts. That's dishonest debating tactics, imo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Nai, this isn't a debate this is just a challenge issued thread. I'm not having an all out debate now. You can accept and use these posts in the battlezone though. I'll destroy these biased and ridiculous exaggerations but I'm not showing my aces now just to show you up. Just take these two posts since you claim this is easy and copy and paste them there. Since you said there is no evidence to rebut this you'll win. You already did the homework required Iyo so there's no excuse not to copy and paste these posts for our official debate.


Who is the coward now, Quanchi?



There is no challenge, Quanchi. There still isn't any opponent on the other side. Just you, Quanchi. The guy who can't reveal his "aces", who can't counter arguments, who can't look at anything without extrem bias ("Khan beats every Jedi!". Hell. You can't even come up with structured postings.

So come back to me, when you have a challenge.

Originally posted by Robtard
Not reading back, but can you give a single good reason why anyone would want to do a BZ with you when you almost never finish one? You get stumped on questions/points you can't counter and instead of conceding the match like a gentlemen, you dodge or you bail and stop posting altogether

You're begging people to commit their time and effort and you already have one foot out the door before it starts. That's dishonest debating tactics, imo. What are you talking about ?

My posts are detailed and I'm never stumped. Ever. You're the guy who rage quits.

"Reverting to name calling suggests you are defensive and therefore find my opinion valid." -Spock

Originally posted by Nai
Who is the coward now, Quanchi?



There is no challenge, Quanchi. There still isn't any opponent on the other side. Just you, Quanchi. The guy who can't reveal his "aces", who can't counter arguments, who can't look at anything without extrem bias ("Khan beats every Jedi!". Hell. You can't even come up with structured postings.

So come back to me, when you have a challenge. This thread isn't intended to debate the topic which we can't until Star Trek Beond releases anyways. Read the op.

Notevil already accepted and if you back out despite these posts which you took the time to post images and debate despite saying you're not then you're full of shit.

Read my battlezone posts if you think I can't give detailed, structured posts. But what's even funnier is I'm giving you the opportunity to copy and paste your arguments which I will sodomize in the battlezone this summer.

Khan beats the Jedi/Sith based off his ruthlessness, behavior, skill, and his weaponry which is far more powerful than the Jedi have been shown able to handle. Your bias isn't an actual argument despite you believing it to be so. You've already lied about how the red matter works on screen. You're a disingenuous poster who lacks the balls to accept a judged debate.

Just copy and paste. I can even do so for you and you can rebut if you want to this summer and we can let the judges decide.

Originally posted by quanchi112
What are you talking about ?

My posts are detailed and I'm never stumped. Ever. You're the guy who rage quits.

You just ran above for fear of having to reveal your "aces". Pathetic.

And your posts are particularly not understandable, because you reply to stuff quoted half a page up in a fashion that suggests, the line you are replying to is right above your reply. Like posting a "Based on?" somewhere in the middle of your own text and leaving it for people to figure out what you were even talking about.

That stuff may make sense inside your head, but it doesn't make out here.

Oh. Wait. That might be the main problem when talking to you.

Originally posted by Robtard
"Reverting to name calling suggests you are defensive and therefore find my opinion valid." -Spock I guess saying to tell me what you're talking about already puts you in rage quit mode.


I'm amazing.

I asked you to give one reason why anyone should commit their time and effort in a BZ considering your history and you dodged the question, pretended ignorance and attacked. It's right above.

Originally posted by Robtard
I asked you to give one reason why anyone should commit their time and effort in a BZ considering your history and you dodged the question, pretended ignorance and attacked. It's right above. What battlezones have I exited ? You just made something up. I've finished more than anyone else on the forum. You always just make things up.

Really now, off the top of my head 'Khan Vs Darth Vader'.

Now care to answer my question that you've dodged twice?

Originally posted by Robtard
Really now, off the top of my head Khan Vs Darth Vader. So one out of 6 ?? I also gave very detailed posts in there but was annoyed at the lack of structure and organization of his posts. He just threw a few paragraphs together with links. He didn't rebut one of my posts. The latest battlezone my opponent never responded well over a month ago. I've never just walked away from post detailed responses in any battlezones.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This thread isn't intended to debate the topic which we can't until Star Trek Beond releases anyways. Read the op.


Nonetheless you started to debate the topic. Now you run from the debate. Cowardice at its finest.

And you would need to be certain of your win even now, without even knowing "Beyond", which is clear from your big talk about the "aces" you've got already. Afraid you can't win your little challenge without them? Pathetic.



Why are you still asking for me to accept, if you already have another participant, Quanchi? Craving for attention, much?



Sorry. I'm already developing a headache for having to read through the stuff you vomit into my general direction. Those huge bunch of texts, where nobody can figure out, what the hell you're even talking about. Not capable of utilizing multi-quotes?

And I don't actually believe you could sodomize anything, even if somebody painted you a detailed picture about how it is done. You lack the required tools. Which is true for both the metaphorical and the non-metaphorical level of that idea.



Any major force user would crush Khan with the Force. With ease.
And I have described en detail how red matter works on screen. Maybe your confirmation bias made you skip that section of my posting, much like you skip anything not matching your opinion. It's fun to watch. Really. Most entertaining. Much like a child putting his hands over its eyes, assuming that it becomes invisible.



You can have the debate here and now, or you can crawl back under your mom's skirts and cry yourself to sleep, because Nai doesn't want to play with you, little girl. And now bring it on or shut up, Tiffany.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So one out of 6 ?? I also gave very detailed posts in there but was annoyed at the lack of structure and organization of his posts. He just threw a few paragraphs together with links. He didn't rebut one of my posts. The latest battlezone my opponent never responded well over a month ago. I've never just walked away from post detailed responses in any battlezones.

IOW: "I previously lied and am making up excuses now that it's been proven I lied." -quanchi112





Now care to answer my question that you've dodged three times?

Originally posted by Nai
Nonetheless you started to debate the topic. Now you run from the debate. Cowardice at its finest.

And you would need to be certain of your win even now, without even knowing "Beyond", which is clear from your big talk about the "aces" you've got already. Afraid you can't win your little challenge without them? Pathetic.



Why are you still asking for me to accept, if you already have another participant, Quanchi? Craving for attention, much?



Sorry. I'm already developing a headache for having to read through the stuff you vomit into my general direction. Those huge bunch of texts, where nobody can figure out, what the hell you're even talking about. Not capable of utilizing multi-quotes?

And I don't actually believe you could sodomize anything, even if somebody painted you a detailed picture about how it is done. You lack the required tools. Which is true for both the metaphorical and the non-metaphorical level of that idea.



Any major force user would crush Khan with the Force. With ease.
And I have described en detail how red matter works on screen. Maybe your confirmation bias made you skip that section of my posting, much like you skip anything not matching your opinion. It's fun to watch. Really. Most entertaining. Much like a child putting his hands over its eyes, assuming that it becomes invisible.



You can have the debate here and now, or you can crawl back under your mom's skirts and cry yourself to sleep, because Nai doesn't want to play with you, little girl. And now bring it on or shut up, Tiffany. I generalized I'm not breaking down the debate in a battlezone challenge thread. The op is clear.

I told you the director confirmed the numerical threat the federation itself would face is 4,000 plus ships and an entire new alien species. I've seen the ot and the pt and their tech isn't up to par nor can they stop the might of Trek added with the sheer numbers of a threat to the entire federation. I've stated this weeks ago.

I'd get more satisfaction of destroying an arrogant Star Wars fan boy. You even mentioned that shithole, star destroyer. That place is awful. I'd love to place your chin on a curb and stomp it debate wise.

I break down posts point by point in the last four battlezones I've done. I'd put in the time to break yours down point by point but not prior to the official debate. That's stupid. Accept already.

Kenobi didn't crush Jango with the force. Windu didn't crush Jango with the force. Saying something without evidence isn't debating. I use evidence to support my claims but you think saying the force crushes him is debating. It's called a baseless claim.

The debate can't be held now as it isn't the Trek trilogy until I see Beyond. You're trying to ignore the third film because you're desperate. Just copy and paste come summer time.

Originally posted by Robtard
IOW: "I previously lied and am making up excuses now that I've been proven to have lied." -quanchi112





Now care to answer my question that you've dodged three times? I stated exactly what happened. You said the vast majority when the last one I did I put up the detailed posts and the other guy walked away. My Khan/Vader battlezone had very detailed posts from me. Carver disappointed me and didn't teen rebut any of my posts. It was truly awful.


So you'd ignore the others and the fact I've always put up detailed, structured posts backing my claims.

Incorrect, you asked me which BZs you bailed out of and claimed I was lying. Here it is:

Originally posted by quanchi112
What battlezones have I exited ? You just made something up.

I gave an example 'Khan Vs Vader' and you resorted to sophomoric excuses in why you stopped posting and bailed. ie you lied about me lying and you lied about not bailing out of a BZ. It's all on page5 for all to see. Rather juvenile tactics you're using, imo.

You also dodged my question four times now even though I respectfully answered yours, but I expected that.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I generalized I'm not breaking down the debate in a battlezone challenge thread. The op is clear.

You could make a new challenge, you could start a new battlezone. Instead you just post excuses. Coward.



Yes, Quan. Ipsedixitism doesn't count as proof. And those numbers are irrelevant if those ships are even smaller than a usual fighter in the SW universe.



Your dreams sound interesting, Quanchi. Do that thoughts make you wet, little flower?



"I will be a brave little girl tomorrow, mommy. Today, I'm still being the little, angsty sissy clinging to your legs. But tomorrow, I will be awesome." Cry more.



Kenobi didn't want to kill Jango and made him run despite having aid from a freaking star ship capable of tearing a part with his gun - which were fired on Kenobi to keep him away from Jango. And we all know how Mace vs Jango ended. About the same way Mace vs Khan would end: A lightsaber swing and a head separated from the body of its previous owner.



Pardon me.
You've pointed to your "aces" multiple times now. As "Beyond" isn't out, those must already be there. So you are sure to win the debate based on the two films already released. So why wait? Afraid? Thought so.

Originally posted by Robtard
Incorrect, you asked me which BZs you bailed out of and claimed I was lying. Here it is:



I gave an example 'Khan Vs Vader' and you resorted to sophomoric excuses in why you stopped posting and bailed. ie you lied about me lying and you lied about not bailing out of a BZ. It's all on page5 for all to see. Rather juvenile tactics you're using, imo.

You also dodged my question four times now even though I respectfully answered yours, but I expected that. Originally posted by Robtard
Not reading back, but can you give a single good reason why anyone would want to do a BZ with you when you almost never finish one? You get stumped on questions/points you can't counter and instead of conceding the match like a gentlemen, you dodge or you bail and stop posting altogether

You're begging people to commit their time and effort and you already have one foot out the door before it starts. That's dishonest debating tactics, imo. I asked for plural examples because you used the words almost and never when you have admitted just one and I told you the reason why. The clearl majority I have seen through but I can go finish that one if you'd admit Khan is superior after I win it. The evidence hasn't changed but don't expect carver to rebut any of my posts.


When someone asks for battlezones they clearly mean more than one for at least a simple majority of the battlezones I have done.

Don't use words like almost and never if you don't mean them. The last battlezone I did the other poster never returned without rebutting my last two posts over a month ago.

Oh well. The emperor lost.

Incorrect. You claimed I lied and implied you never bailed out. When you did and I showed it, page 5 for all to see. If I post another one, you'll resort to "Okay, show me three" so on and so forth, because these are the silly tactics you use. Which goes back to my initial question, why would anyone commit to a BZ with you considering you antics. I asked for one reason and you couldn't give one.

You're being disingenuous again, quano. The poster says he's busy and that he will return and it's been less than a month since he last posted. Lies. Lies. Lies.

Originally posted by Nai
You could make a new challenge, you could start a new battlezone. Instead you just post excuses. Coward.



Yes, Quan. Ipsedixitism doesn't count as proof. And those numbers are irrelevant if those ships are even smaller than a usual fighter in the SW universe.



Your dreams sound interesting, Quanchi. Do that thoughts make you wet, little flower?



"I will be a brave little girl tomorrow, mommy. Today, I'm still being the little, angsty sissy clinging to your legs. But tomorrow, I will be awesome." Cry more.



Kenobi didn't want to kill Jango and made him run despite having aid from a freaking star ship capable of tearing a part with his gun - which were fired on Kenobi to keep him away from Jango. And we all know how Mace vs Jango ended. About the same way Mace vs Khan would end: A lightsaber swing and a head separated from the body of its previous owner.



Pardon me.
You've pointed to your "aces" multiple times now. As "Beyond" isn't out, those must already be there. So you are sure to win the debate based on the two films already released. So why wait? Afraid? Thought so. The challenge was clear in the op after the Beyond film in the summer. Quit posting if you're going to make excuses or ignore the clear intent of the thread. You can copy and paste your laughable arguments and even link stardestroyer.net


They clearly do count as they are shown quite capable of hive swarming ships far better than themselves. You wanting to dismiss them as legit threats without seeing the film is being biased. Wait and see. They are a threat to the entire federation. The rebels weren't technologically superior or better trained than the rebels but they still lost.



Then show the courage to stand against me. Just copy and paste. I can even do it for you this summer.


The debate begins after Star Trek beyond comes out not before. Read the op. I've been clear since the beginning and your illiteracy doesn't change that fact.

Kenobi had the force. Kylo didn't need to kill Poe Dameron to stop him with the force. Kenobi, not so much. You don't get to make shit up. That isn't how debating works. We see Jango weaponless hold his own against Kenobi and the force. That matters more so than your biased perceptions of how the force works in the hands of Kenobi. Cad Bane even defeated Kenobi in hand to hand despite Kenobi having the force and a lightsaber.


Made didn't crush him with the force he killed him with his skills with his saber. Jango's jetpack didn't work either due to a beast which neutered his abilities and slanted the fight to benefit Windu.

My case relies on the numbers and the might of trek with all three films. Quit trying to argue one trilogy vs two trek movies when I've always said it'll be trilogy vs. trilogy.

Originally posted by Robtard
You claimed I lied and implied you never bailed out. When you did and I showed it, page 5 for all to see. If I post another one, you'll resort to "Okay, show me three" so on and so forth, because these are the silly tactics you use. Which goes back to my initial question, why would anyone commit to a BZ with you considering you antics. I asked for one reason and you couldn't give one.

You're being disingenuous again, quano. The poster says he's busy and that he will return and it's been less than a month since he last posted. Lies. Lies. Lies. Originally posted by Robtard
Not reading back, but can you give a single good reason why anyone would want to do a BZ with you when you almost never finish one? You get stumped on questions/points you can't counter and instead of conceding the match like a gentlemen, you dodge or you bail and stop posting altogether

You're begging people to commit their time and effort and you already have one foot out the door before it starts. That's dishonest debating tactics, imo. You claimed almost never. That's what was a lie. I still gave detailed and thorough posts. Carver, didn't. I can go finish this just don't expect carver to say much. I want you to admit Khan is superior if I do so and win. Do you accept ?


I've had two people back out the day of. Xanatos and Darth Thor.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The challenge was clear in the op after the Beyond film in the summer. Quit posting if you're going to make excuses or ignore the clear intent of the thread. You can copy and paste your laughable arguments and even link stardestroyer.net

As I said. Chicken Quan on the run. Coward.



The Death Star on its own would be a "threat to the Federation". Hell. Khan on his own is a "threat to the Federation". The Federation is laughable.



Why don't you show courage and do some NuTrek vs Star Wars Battlezone with me right now? Desperation? Fear?



I proposed an alternative that can be done right now. Why don't you accept, Quan?



Oh my god.
Because people haven't shown an exact act on screen doesn't mean that they can't perform it. If somebody can use telekinesis to rip apart large metal structures (Kenobi in RotS) he could certainly do the same to a human body. That you have virtually no imagination (or intellect) doesn't mean that the same also goes for others.

And just for the fun of it: Kenobi force pushed General Grievous into the ceiling and then bend the armor on the cyborgs chest with his bare hands. Kenobi > Khan in the strength department.



Does Khan has a jetpack now? No? Oh. See.



You've dodged the alusion to your "aces" once again, Quanchi. One begins to wonder if they are nonexistant - much like your intelligence, imagination, debating skills and courage.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You claimed almost never. That's what was a lie. I still gave detailed and thorough posts. Carver, didn't. I can go finish this just don't expect carver to say much. I want you to admit Khan is superior if I do so and win. Do you accept ?


I've had two people back out the day of. Xanatos and Darth Thor.

You're trying a red herring now. You claimed I lied and that you never bailed out of a BZ when you did, it's on page 5. You bailed out of that BZ well over a year ago, by you own rules of "not responding", you lost the BZ. Also, expecting the other poster to commit themselves again after you bailed well over a year ago is a lowly tactic.

Why should they commit their time to you when you've already shown you have little to no interesting in holding up your end of the bargain? <--- a question

You're being disingenuous again, quano. DT did not bail, iirc. He proposed a different setting and you refused. Like you're refusing the poser above here now.

Originally posted by Robtard
You're trying a red herring now. You claimed I lied and that you never bailed out of a BZ when you did, it's on page 5. You bailed out of that BZ well over a year ago, by you own rules of "not responding", you lost the BZ. Also, expecting the other poster to commit themselves again after you bailed well over a year ago is a lowly tactic.

Why should they commit their time to you when you've already shown you have little to no interesting in holding up your end of the bargain? <--- a question

You're being disingenuous again, quano. DT did not bail, iirc. He proposed a different setting and you refused. Like you're refusing the poser above here now. I never said not responding means you lost. Carver will still continue and in the stips we agreed it ends when we decided. He will do so. I'd be confident with my posts anyways since they were more detailed.

A red herring isn't the case when the majority of my battlezones I finish and have had others walk away from.

Dt agreed to Vader and the day of tried Kenobi because he lacked the faith to rep Vader. He backed down from this one as well.

Originally posted by Nai
As I said. Chicken Quan on the run. Coward.



The Death Star on its own would be a "threat to the Federation". Hell. Khan on his own is a "threat to the Federation". The Federation is laughable.



Why don't you show courage and do some NuTrek vs Star Wars Battlezone with me right now? Desperation? Fear?



I proposed an alternative that can be done right now. Why don't you accept, Quan?



Oh my god.
Because people haven't shown an exact act on screen doesn't mean that they can't perform it. If somebody can use telekinesis to rip apart large metal structures (Kenobi in RotS) he could certainly do the same to a human body. That you have virtually no imagination (or intellect) doesn't mean that the same also goes for others.

And just for the fun of it: Kenobi force pushed General Grievous into the ceiling and then bend the armor on the cyborgs chest with his bare hands. Kenobi > Khan in the strength department.



Does Khan has a jetpack now? No? Oh. See.



You've dodged the alusion to your "aces" once again, Quanchi. One begins to wonder if they are nonexistant - much like your intelligence, imagination, debating skills and courage. This challenge is for the summer. You posted a detailed argument supported by images so you will accept by summertime ? After the film releases you'll accept since I can copy and paste your argument.

Khan would be a threat to the empire and Palpatine as well. Khan designed weapons what would cause Palpatine to ejaculate. Khan wouldn't fail as Yoda failed. The federation prevailed. The empire didn't against the paltry rebel alliance. The Death Star was easily destroyed. Hell, two Death Stars were easily destroyed.

I intended trilogy vs trilogy. You're saying hey despite your challenge thread give me a chance and let's do it without your third film. What a cowardly tactic.

I created a thread to debate what I am interested in. Man up and accept the challenge. Trilogy vs trilogy. Are you afraid of those swarm frontier ships ?

I didn't say can't I said probably won't due to them never using the force against legitimate threats in the manner you described. He's lost to cad bane. Canon. He electro a choked him despite having to run from two Jedi. Two Jedi couldn't take him in. Those are facts that can't be altered. You saying Kenobi does this when he clearly hasn't is not the same. He used the force against Grievous and didn't defeat him with it either. It took the force and a blaster to end grievous.

We've never seen them rip apart a body. We see Dooku rip apart structures yet he didn trip apart Kenobi with the force. Who has ripped someone's body in half with the force ? Biased posters apply the force in any way they want to despite the lack of evidence and faulty well they can do so logic.

Nah, Kenobi's kick was pathetic against Anakin and pulling back that plating that obviously could be moved doesn't mean anything. He kicked him and hurt himself. Khan crushed a human skull and when he hit people he sent them back 20 plus feet. That's super strength.

That isn't Khan that's Jango. Jango doesn't have a gun that can oneshot Klingon patrol ships or vaporize armored foes. Khan doesn't need to fly away but in that scene Jango clearly did. He had a shitty blaster. He wasn't at his best when Windu finally killed him via saber not the force. Choose your words carefully, sport.


I say I don't want to reveal my aces to which you say hey what are your aces. Wait until the summer and see for yourself.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This challenge is for the summer. You posted a detailed argument supported by images so you will accept by summertime ? After the film releases you'll accept since I can copy and paste your argument.


I can't accept for summertime, as in summertime, I might have better things to do than participate in a battlezone thread. I offer you the chance to proof your worth now. You refuse. So you're a coward. Good to know. Move on.



Lmao.
Palpatine had superweapons capable of one-hitting entire planets. What has Khan designed that comes even close to the Death Star? And no. Khan as an individual wouldn't be a threat for the Empire, since Vader alone would destroy him in combat. With ease.



Pardon me. You are still always pointing to aces that you have right now. You are certain that you can win the battlezone right now, because otherwise, you wouldn't attempt to challenge somebody to it. That you don't accept my offer to prove your worth as a debater right now, either means you're a coward, who can't win anything without his "aces" (which is completely laughable, since either those are arguments that can't be challenged or they can be challenged in the later battlezone, regardless if you post them now or not). Or you're an idiot, because you don't know yet, whether you can win and rely on information that might be present in "Beyond".

Coward or idiot? What is it, Quanchi?



Excuse me, Quan. If you can run around here and call people cowards, because they don't participate in debates that they are not interested in, I'm very sure I can just do the same with you. And in this case, it's so extremely funny, to see you attempting to worm out of the challenge without losing face, because any new information present in "Beyond" can't be vital for your argument (as you already have your "aces".



I didn't see Cad Bane in the movies, Quan. If you want to drag the Clone Wars into this little discussion we are somehow not having, than each major character wipes the floor with Khan based on their feats. They also do based on movie feats but that animated series even makes it more obvious.



We see Dooku killing with Force Choke in the Clone Wars series. We see him leveling entire groups of opponents. We see him taking out Anakin with force lightning in AotC. We see him dropping rather huge metal structures on Kenobi / Anakin (AotC) and Kenobi (RotS). All things that Khan would be totally defenseless against. In fact, he probably would loses his weapons the second he enters the fight, since disarming opponents with the Force (especially those who can't defend themselves against telekinesis) is one of the oldest move in Star Wars (see Vader in ESB).



It was a centimeter thick metal plating and Kenobi did bent it and not "pull it back". That's more impressive than crushing a human skull (which doesn't even happen on screen, so we don't see what Khan did do exactly).



Jango had backup by a ship that was capable of slicing through an asteroid field with rapid fire, detonating entire asteroids in the process. And that gun was fired at Kenobi. So?



That you even need to "hide" some "aces" already shows what a lousy debater and coward you are. As I said: No challenge.

Originally posted by Nai
I can't accept for summertime, as in summertime, I might have better things to do than participate in a battlezone thread. I offer you the chance to proof your worth now. You refuse. So you're a coward. Good to know. Move on.



Lmao.
Palpatine had superweapons capable of one-hitting entire planets. What has Khan designed that comes even close to the Death Star? And no. Khan as an individual wouldn't be a threat for the Empire, since Vader alone would destroy him in combat. With ease.



Pardon me. You are still always pointing to aces that you have right now. You are certain that you can win the battlezone right now, because otherwise, you wouldn't attempt to challenge somebody to it. That you don't accept my offer to prove your worth as a debater right now, either means you're a coward, who can't win anything without his "aces" (which is completely laughable, since either those are arguments that can't be challenged or they can be challenged in the later battlezone, regardless if you post them now or not). Or you're an idiot, because you don't know yet, whether you can win and rely on information that might be present in "Beyond".

Coward or idiot? What is it, Quanchi?



Excuse me, Quan. If you can run around here and call people cowards, because they don't participate in debates that they are not interested in, I'm very sure I can just do the same with you. And in this case, it's so extremely funny, to see you attempting to worm out of the challenge without losing face, because any new information present in "Beyond" can't be vital for your argument (as you already have your "aces".



I didn't see Cad Bane in the movies, Quan. If you want to drag the Clone Wars into this little discussion we are somehow not having, than each major character wipes the floor with Khan based on their feats. They also do based on movie feats but that animated series even makes it more obvious.



We see Dooku killing with Force Choke in the Clone Wars series. We see him leveling entire groups of opponents. We see him taking out Anakin with force lightning in AotC. We see him dropping rather huge metal structures on Kenobi / Anakin (AotC) and Kenobi (RotS). All things that Khan would be totally defenseless against. In fact, he probably would loses his weapons the second he enters the fight, since disarming opponents with the Force (especially those who can't defend themselves against telekinesis) is one of the oldest move in Star Wars (see Vader in ESB).



It was a centimeter thick metal plating and Kenobi did bent it and not "pull it back". That's more impressive than crushing a human skull (which doesn't even happen on screen, so we don't see what Khan did do exactly).



Jango had backup by a ship that was capable of slicing through an asteroid field with rapid fire, detonating entire asteroids in the process. And that gun was fired at Kenobi. So?



That you even need to "hide" some "aces" already shows what a lousy debater and coward you are. As I said: No challenge. No, I suggest reading the opening post again.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This will take place after Star Trek Beyond's film over the summer. It will be trilogy vs. trilogy. This challenge is first being extended to Darth Thor since he always acts like he could beat me in a one on one judged debate. I will be representing ONLY the NuTrek Trilogy while you have your choice of the Prequel trilogy or the Original trilogy. It'll be a space war with all characters from each trilogy only going to war.

I'm saying based off the interviews for Beyond and the sheer numbers of the NuFilm along with the other two films that they'd defeat either Wars trilogy in combat. I'm willing to debate this. Here is your chance to shut me up. Will anyone answer the bell here ?

Now with that being said time may be an issue and since you already believe you've won and there's nothing I can do or say then I'll copy and paste your arguments and you can sit back and don't have to worry about logging in, right ?


The Death Star was someone else's plans Palpatine had nothing to do with them. His personal phaser cannon and phaser rifle are far better than any hand held weapon the Stormtroopers employ. Your simplistic little mind only sees power but not the man power required to run said station and the lack of mobility. Your mind doesn't see the strengths and weaknesses. The USS Vengeance can be operated by one man. That's invaluable in a war type setting considering the speed, size, and the impressive weaponry we see from it. Simply ridiculous. Vader would be put down by Khan but I don't want to turn this into another Khan vs Vader debate.

I do have aces now but I've said I needed the numbers. You ignore that statement and want to change the entire debate and subtract a film because you're full of cowardice. Man the **** up. 4,000 plus ships and the sheer numbers from the Frontier will make this a Trek victory on top of the Trek might and power. 2+2=4. The director confirmed those numbers and I'll need to see the film to cite how it's done not just argue based off a 2 minute preview.


If you didn't post in this thread I wouldn't call you a coward but you've put up an argument despite this not being the actual debate. I said I'll respond to them after Beyond releases. Everytime I ever mention an official debate you come up with a thousand excuses as to why you can't do it. The laughable argument you put up will be destroyed by in movie references, common sense, and logic. I think you're shitting your pants and the funniest part is we won't even see the Klingon empire and you're already shitting your pants. We see the best from Star Wars but haven't even seen all aspects of the impressive forces in the Trek universe and you still want to run and hide.


That is canon so it supports my claims but I wouldn't cite it. I don't have to as we see him clearly not besting Jango Fett while using the force in the battle against him. We also see it used against Grievous and he needed a blaster to win. Kinda weak argument and not supported by your wild and fanboyish claims.

Khan would shoot him while he used the force to drop a structure. It leaves him wide open. Khan shoots in far less than a second and we see Dooku taking multiple seconds to do so. We see Kenobi defenseless against a force choke but somehow survive. We go by real time not fanboyism claims of what Dooku can do. I mean I wouldn't cite this but Hondo and his men capture this Sith turd. Humiliating, yes ?




No, it isn't since we see he can clearly bend that part but his legs which are more powerful than his arms hurt himself kicking him. It's called common sense. We see his strength fail to drive Anakin back unlike Khan whose kicked men back twenty plus feet. Common sense. Kenobi can't crush a skull with his bare hands, nerd.

So ? The ship fired once. Jango's weaponry disarmed him. Jango took him on and Kenobi used the force but not to beat Jango because it doesn't work that way, you don't get to ignore showings and cite fanboyism claims not supported by the facts.


Nah, it shows I will debate the topic thoroughly in the official debate not against some coward who wants to subtract a film and start it now. That's cowardice at its finest.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I suggest reading the opening post again.


And I suggest not attempting to worm out of the situation, vermin.



Obviously, I would need to react to your "arguments", no matter how ridiculous they are, even though I know you can't win. So there would be need to spend more time on this, because you decide to chicken out right now.



You were directly comparing the stuff Khan came up with to the Imperial arsenal, which includes two Death Stars. My "simplistic" mind is apparently more able to graps the nonsense you produce than your own non-existant intellect.



Probably because you lost the last judged one with flying colors, since your usual tactics (switch rules mid-debate) weren't accepted by the judge. Pathetic.



The numbers don't matter, since a single ISD is still worth a thousand Star Trek ships.



Sound logic in Quanchi style. And, also Quanchi style, a nice lie:

You calling me coward, for declining a Battlezone challenge and you doing it again

So, by your own rules of conduct: I call you out for a debate, you refuse, you're a coward. Easy math. And now a fact. Please change your usertitle into "Class A Chicken"



You are the only person here that tries to worm out of a Star Trek vs Star Wars challenge right now. Because of not wanting to reveal your "aces" (lmao).



You may want to research where Grievous cough was coming from, smartass. That was Windu, force crushing the chest of the cyborg. And there are countless times in the Clone Wars were people get outright killed or at least owned completely by applications of the Force. I wonder how you managed to miss them. Oh, yes. Confirmation bias. Ignorance.



I can just ask again: Did you even watch a single Star Wars movie or other material from that franchise?

eYT3ctPuVRw

Dooku force pushing, force choking and throwing Kenobi around with mere gestures in the middle of a lightsaber fight with two opponents. I wonder how Khan would shoot at anything, while being supended in mid-air and being chocked to death at the same time? Ah yes...

BuOrHSSUhqM

1:02 - 1:16
Dooku force chokes the one guy, makes him draw his weapon and shoot the second guy before snapping his neck. So Khan wouldn't shoot anybody here, since he would be instantly inable to even move his weapon in the right direction. Thanks for playing, Quanchimon. Force > Khan proven. End of story.



It is actually called ignorance, Quanchi.

tXTFdDrd7pA

Let us ignore for a moment that Grievous, in terms of superhuman strength, is clearly superior to Khan (putting dents into metal with his hands, that kick he delives at Kenobi from the ground): Kenobi grabs his torso armor and bents the armor plating aside. Those parts were clearly not intended to be moveable.



Again. I wonder what version of the duel you did see. Actually, that fight illustrates quite nicely, why Jedi > Khan.

8tMZdrUx8eM

0.30 - 0.35: Jango fires rocket at Kenobi which explodes right in front of the Jedi Master with a massive blast. Kenobi is thrown backwards and, yes, he loses his lightsaber. He still isn't even hurt by the explosion.

0.38 - 0.43: Boba Fett fires at least eight shots from the Slave-I canons and hits Kenobi almost directly. The Jedi is thrown backwards but once more appears to be completely not hurt by the explosion right next to him. And compared to those weapons, Khan's gun is a minor toy.

0.43 - 0.50: After having just mere seconds to recover from that massive hits, Kenobi can jump rather high into the air to kick Jango Fett attacking him with his jet pack. Despite the fact that Jango wears armor, that kick delivers enough hurt to make him drop his gun.

1.08 - 1.20: Despite being pulled around hanging on a metal cable, Kenobi manages to get up and pull against the force of Jango's jet pack and backs that up with enough strength to make Jango lose that jet pack.

1.55 - 2.05: While dropping down after Jango releases the cable, Kenobi is perfectly capable of sorting that thing out mid-air and manages to hit the railing of the building with a single throw. Than manages to hold on to that capable after being brought to full stop after a 8 second free fall drop. So he would have been decelerated from about 300 km/h to 0 in the fraction of a second and manages to hold on to that cable? Seriously. Khan is not even close in terms of superhuman abilities.



More evasion, little princess? You (and anybody else) will probably have forgotten that little challenge here until the movie is out, and since you claim to have all the aces up your sleeve right now, why not use them?

sVBy602la4s

Originally posted by Nai
And I suggest not attempting to worm out of the situation, vermin.



Obviously, I would need to react to your "arguments", no matter how ridiculous they are, even though I know you can't win. So there would be need to spend more time on this, because you decide to chicken out right now.



You were directly comparing the stuff Khan came up with to the Imperial arsenal, which includes two Death Stars. My "simplistic" mind is apparently more able to graps the nonsense you produce than your own non-existant intellect.



Probably because you lost the last judged one with flying colors, since your usual tactics (switch rules mid-debate) weren't accepted by the judge. Pathetic.



The numbers don't matter, since a single ISD is still worth a thousand Star Trek ships.



Sound logic in Quanchi style. And, also Quanchi style, a nice lie:

You calling me coward, for declining a Battlezone challenge and you doing it again

So, by your own rules of conduct: I call you out for a debate, you refuse, you're a coward. Easy math. And now a fact. Please change your usertitle into "Class A Chicken"



You are the only person here that tries to worm out of a Star Trek vs Star Wars challenge right now. Because of not wanting to reveal your "aces" (lmao).



You may want to research where Grievous cough was coming from, smartass. That was Windu, force crushing the chest of the cyborg. And there are countless times in the Clone Wars were people get outright killed or at least owned completely by applications of the Force. I wonder how you managed to miss them. Oh, yes. Confirmation bias. Ignorance.



I can just ask again: Did you even watch a single Star Wars movie or other material from that franchise?

eYT3ctPuVRw

Dooku force pushing, force choking and throwing Kenobi around with mere gestures in the middle of a lightsaber fight with two opponents. I wonder how Khan would shoot at anything, while being supended in mid-air and being chocked to death at the same time? Ah yes...

BuOrHSSUhqM

1:02 - 1:16
Dooku force chokes the one guy, makes him draw his weapon and shoot the second guy before snapping his neck. So Khan wouldn't shoot anybody here, since he would be instantly inable to even move his weapon in the right direction. Thanks for playing, Quanchimon. Force > Khan proven. End of story.



It is actually called ignorance, Quanchi.

tXTFdDrd7pA

Let us ignore for a moment that Grievous, in terms of superhuman strength, is clearly superior to Khan (putting dents into metal with his hands, that kick he delives at Kenobi from the ground): Kenobi grabs his torso armor and bents the armor plating aside. Those parts were clearly not intended to be moveable.



Again. I wonder what version of the duel you did see. Actually, that fight illustrates quite nicely, why Jedi > Khan.

8tMZdrUx8eM

0.30 - 0.35: Jango fires rocket at Kenobi which explodes right in front of the Jedi Master with a massive blast. Kenobi is thrown backwards and, yes, he loses his lightsaber. He still isn't even hurt by the explosion.

0.38 - 0.43: Boba Fett fires at least eight shots from the Slave-I canons and hits Kenobi almost directly. The Jedi is thrown backwards but once more appears to be completely not hurt by the explosion right next to him. And compared to those weapons, Khan's gun is a minor toy.

0.43 - 0.50: After having just mere seconds to recover from that massive hits, Kenobi can jump rather high into the air to kick Jango Fett attacking him with his jet pack. Despite the fact that Jango wears armor, that kick delivers enough hurt to make him drop his gun.

1.08 - 1.20: Despite being pulled around hanging on a metal cable, Kenobi manages to get up and pull against the force of Jango's jet pack and backs that up with enough strength to make Jango lose that jet pack.

1.55 - 2.05: While dropping down after Jango releases the cable, Kenobi is perfectly capable of sorting that thing out mid-air and manages to hit the railing of the building with a single throw. Than manages to hold on to that capable after being brought to full stop after a 8 second free fall drop. So he would have been decelerated from about 300 km/h to 0 in the fraction of a second and manages to hold on to that cable? Seriously. Khan is not even close in terms of superhuman abilities.



More evasion, little princess? You (and anybody else) will probably have forgotten that little challenge here until the movie is out, and since you claim to have all the aces up your sleeve right now, why not use them?

sVBy602la4s The op made it clear so continue to troll. This is a challenge thread not the debate. Reread the op.

There is no third film, dummy. I said I need the numbers as well as the superior weaponry. After the third film based off what I know but I'll still need to use the evidence after the film hits. You wanting to have this before Beyond hits is telling you're a sissy and scared of Trek might.


And with the massive manpower that the Death Stars require and the lack of mobility it just compare to the Dreadnought class. One man if necessary and three times the speed. Death Stars can't even move.

You just made something up that never happened. Nai, you're very ignorant. Indeed you are pathetic.

That's absurd so accept the debate so I can obliterate you with evidence. You're a fanboy of the highest order.

I put up a clear battlezone challenge. You've come in said you won't debate, then don't debate the op. The challenge is specific. I am not debating two Trek films. I am debating three Trek films vs three Wars films. You're in my thread, troll. Man up you pansy. You're in my thread, troll. You don't even post here normally.

Trilogy vs. trilogy. It's apparent you don't think they have a snowballs chance in hell after Beyond releases.

Yeah, Windu didn't kill him nor could the Jedi until Kenobi did. Grevious ran wild for a long time despite the Jedi order being unable to thus proving my points. Grievous isn't Khan. He doesn't have superhuman cellular regeneration.

Yes, Dooku beat a guy with the same skillset but he's more powerful and has more experience. That isn't relevant to Khan at all. Kenobi attacked him multiple times beforehand. He wasn't force choked as soon as he came up to Dooku. Watch the clip. Khan plugs at least five shots before Dooku knows what hits him.

the guy does not even know Dooku is there. He cheapshot force chokes him. You're an idiot. It's like me posting a video where Khan shoots a guy while he's hiding and unaware of Khan and saying there's the proof. Ffs you're a moron. The context of the scene eludes you.


Grievous is stronger than Kenobi as well. So acting like it's even close is again another lie. That plate is bendable. For **** sake it isn't that impressive we have seen Kenobi attack a human being and he doesn't crush skulls or even knock Anakin back anywhere near as far as Knan has. It isn't close in strength. Jango roughed his ***** ass up.

Jango fires and misses but the explosion which doesn't hit his body directly still disarms him. Weak. It has to hit him to hurt him. You're a joke when it comes to the evidence. You're a fanboy.


The weapon doesn't even damage Kenobi or the ground. It isn't comparable at all to Khan's weapons which vaporizes armored foes and brings down Klingon ships.

It does not hurt him he just loses his gun because he's kicked in the air. Jango takes him on just fine. Khan one shots a Klingon with body armor on with a kick.

So ?

He used the force to do so which doesn't require super strength it is just the force aiding him. Calm the **** down. He lost at this point because Jango escaped.

Three films to three films. Accept and let's get this on in the summer. Your fanboyism and Star Wars posturing is duly noted. Talk is cheap. Accept and prepare to be annihilated.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Shall-We-Begin-Star-Trek.gif

Originally posted by quanchi112
The op made it clear so continue to troll. This is a challenge thread not the debate. Reread the op.


I challenged you to a new debate thrice now. You back down. Coward.



Oh. You need "numbers" of ships of which we have no idea what they can do and "superior weaponry" we likewise don't have a clue what it can do in order to win? Really? So you happily accept that, as it is, SW would destroy NuTrek? Interesting.



Apparently, you really are a moron who has never seen a SW movie.
Death Stars can't move? I wonder how ANH even works, where the Death Star does clearly move from the Alderaan system to the Yavin system (in several hours, faster than any ST ship) and manages to circle the gas-giant Yavin in order to destroy the Rebel base on Yavin 4.



Oh. Yes. Of course: What is this, then? You running away from a Battlezone? Or this? Or that one?

Hell. How often did you do the "Khan vs Force User" debate and had your ass handed to you? Hilarious!



You're a poser who can't debate his way out of a matchbox. Stop crying.



You're debating nothing, as nobody wants to play with you.



I said it multiple times, that Beyond won't change much.



Correct. Grievous > Khan in terms of speed, strength and skill.



Dooku makes a gesture and Khan is unable to move, suspended in mid-air and either chocked to death or gets his neck snapped.



Urm. You know that people who can't use the force don't have any defense against Force powers? So it doesn't matter whether Dooku is in front of people or behind them. They can't do jack shit in order to stop him. Neither could Khan. Which is the fact that always eludes you.



Already throwing an e-tantrum, Quanchimon?
Yes. Grievous is a cyborg, so he is physically stronger than Kenobi. Yet, the Jedi still manages to floor him in melee combat. And that is the same Kenobi who could duel Anakin, who in turn was able to sustain the weight of himself, Kenobi and Palpatine on one hand (RotS escape from Grievous flagship). So?

And we could watch Dooku fighting again. He kicks Anakin around behind his back, and still Anakin goes flying several meters, which is at least as impressive as Khan kicking people.



Yeah. You need to stand in the middle of an explosion in order to get hurt. Especially considering the fact that the explosion does throw Kenobi through the air...



Probably because the ground is harder than the asteroids we see the same weapon firing through with ease? And "bringing down Klingon ships" was just possible because of shooting the pilots - which Khan did.



Oh. The Force is capable of letting Kenobi cling on that cable? Interesting. It's apparently also capable of letting Anakin Skywalker survive a several hundred meter free fall at which end he grabs onto a fast moving air speed without sustaining any injury. It also helps Kenobi deflect the blast from the aformentioned explosions. And it gives them superspeed and precognition.

How exactly do Khans guns do against the force? He won't even hit a Jedi / Sith since they would know that he fires, before he fires and can dodge with superhuman speed.



Exactly. Talk is cheap. As you still run away from having any kind of SW vs ST debate with me right now, you're still a posing coward that doesn't deserve any kind of respect. Thanks for clarification of your status as Class A Chicken.

Originally posted by Nai
I challenged you to a new debate thrice now. You back down. Coward.



Oh. You need "numbers" of ships of which we have no idea what they can do and "superior weaponry" we likewise don't have a clue what it can do in order to win? Really? So you happily accept that, as it is, SW would destroy NuTrek? Interesting.



Apparently, you really are a moron who has never seen a SW movie.
Death Stars can't move? I wonder how ANH even works, where the Death Star does clearly move from the Alderaan system to the Yavin system (in several hours, faster than any ST ship) and manages to circle the gas-giant Yavin in order to destroy the Rebel base on Yavin 4.



Oh. Yes. Of course: What is this, then? You running away from a Battlezone? Or this? Or that one?

Hell. How often did you do the "Khan vs Force User" debate and had your ass handed to you? Hilarious!



You're a poser who can't debate his way out of a matchbox. Stop crying.



You're debating nothing, as nobody wants to play with you.



I said it multiple times, that Beyond won't change much.



Correct. Grievous > Khan in terms of speed, strength and skill.



Dooku makes a gesture and Khan is unable to move, suspended in mid-air and either chocked to death or gets his neck snapped.



Urm. You know that people who can't use the force don't have any defense against Force powers? So it doesn't matter whether Dooku is in front of people or behind them. They can't do jack shit in order to stop him. Neither could Khan. Which is the fact that always eludes you.



Already throwing an e-tantrum, Quanchimon?
Yes. Grievous is a cyborg, so he is physically stronger than Kenobi. Yet, the Jedi still manages to floor him in melee combat. And that is the same Kenobi who could duel Anakin, who in turn was able to sustain the weight of himself, Kenobi and Palpatine on one hand (RotS escape from Grievous flagship). So?

And we could watch Dooku fighting again. He kicks Anakin around behind his back, and still Anakin goes flying several meters, which is at least as impressive as Khan kicking people.



Yeah. You need to stand in the middle of an explosion in order to get hurt. Especially considering the fact that the explosion does throw Kenobi through the air...



Probably because the ground is harder than the asteroids we see the same weapon firing through with ease? And "bringing down Klingon ships" was just possible because of shooting the pilots - which Khan did.



Oh. The Force is capable of letting Kenobi cling on that cable? Interesting. It's apparently also capable of letting Anakin Skywalker survive a several hundred meter free fall at which end he grabs onto a fast moving air speed without sustaining any injury. It also helps Kenobi deflect the blast from the aformentioned explosions. And it gives them superspeed and precognition.

How exactly do Khans guns do against the force? He won't even hit a Jedi / Sith since they would know that he fires, before he fires and can dodge with superhuman speed.



Exactly. Talk is cheap. As you still run away from having any kind of SW vs ST debate with me right now, you're still a posing coward that doesn't deserve any kind of respect. Thanks for clarification of your status as Class A Chicken. What don't you get about that I'm not going to compromise this debate ? Trilogy vs trilogy. Period.


In war you usually need tech, weaponry, and numbers. No, that isn't true. If we took the totality of Trek vs Wars it'd be a stomp since they have various other empires, the Borg, Q, etc. I'm doing you a favor and making it just trilogy vs trilogy. You want two films vs. three films. You begging for an unfair debate and one I never expressed an interest in is you demonstrating extreme uncertainty and lack of faith in your position.

They can't move in combat. Must I spell everything out for you. We never see them maneuver while under the duress of combat.

I've never had my ass handed to me. Look at both of my battlezones thus far reaping Khan vs Vader and Sidious as of now. Get back to me when you've been illuminated.

If I can't debate my way out of a matchbox accept this challenge after the movie releases. We can wait until after the DVD release of Star Trek:Beyond and you can pick the timeframe when it works for you.


I already have someone who accepted it but to get your pansy ass in an official debate I'd definitely push him to the side. Accept it. Do what must be done. If you're so good and I'm so bad you can't not accept without looking bad.

You haven't seen the film and saying nothing will change is a very biased response. You don't even know what the federation will do in the film nor what the frontier's numbers will end up being. We already know via the director 4,000 plus ships. I think that number scares the **** out of you.

False, he was pathetic in combat. Khan is far more skilled with his weaponry than Grievous is. Khan would defeat him with a shot or two. We see a blaster just dust him despite his shitty plated armor.

Khan shoots him. His reflexes are quicker and he's much more ruthless than Dooku is. We don't see him do this right out of the gate to Kenobi and he gets in multiple movements against Dooku so quite misrepresenting the evidence like you always do.

They can attack or actually defend themselves. It's like saying shooting someone in the head who is unaware. That doesn't prove shit so ffs quit using showings that are irrelevant in comparing Khan to Dooku. Dude, the clones eradicated the Jedi despite not possessing any force powers so yes it's irrelevant. If the clones were just standing around yes force powers can force choke them without any fear of reprisal.

Grievous crushes him in melee combat. Kenobi needed a weapon to win. Kenobi was the same guy easily ko'd by a force push. Kenobi is the same guy easily downed by Dooku in aotc as well. That still isn't as impressive as crushing a skull so continue to exaggerate Star Wars feats. It's what you do.

Anakin doesn't go back as far as when Khan kicks someone aboard the uss vengeance. Dooku also can't crush skulls which is harder to do than kick people back that distance.



So you're saying blasters won't directly hurt Kenobi ? The gunfire didn't hit him. Period. It didn't destroy the ground. Weak blasts. It's Star Wars tech so I am not surprised.

Prove that. So you're saying Khan saw the pilots and has the skill to shoot them while being attacked by multiple foes. You actually complimented Khan you ninny. When did we see the Klingon pilots in any of those scenes ? You just seem to make shit up and baseless claim your way through a debate. This is why you will pussy out of this debate because deep down you know you're ****ed and Trek wins but you're too scared to wait until Star Trek Beyond releases.

It can guide it just as you claimed it guided Luke's laser shot. You're a hypocrite. Your logic changes from point to point because you're biased and all that matters in your infantile mind is that Wars wins despite the facts and logic. Baseless claims. Nah, the force needs to be concentrated on to use not when you're busy being blasted back. Do you know how the force works ?

They hit the guy using the force just how the clones eradicated the Jedi order. Facts. Don't let them stand in the way of your fanboyism. Continue to pound your chest and ignoring the films portrayal of the force.

I'll have this debate after the DVD releases when you're ready. No excuse now since I'll wait on when you grow a pair of nuts.

Originally posted by quanchi112
What don't you get about that I'm not going to compromise this debate ? Trilogy vs trilogy. Period.

We all have understood by now that you're a coward. No need to embarrass yourself further, Clownchi. And since you seem to be as dense as a brick wall: I challenged you to have any kind of SW vs ST debate. Make it 2 SW movies vs the new ST films, if you like. Instead of attempting to explain your cowardice, you could have moved by now. Afraid?



If we took the totality of Trek vs Wars, it'd be a stomp - for the Star Wars side. Even limiting Star Wars to the current (Disney) canon, it would still win.

And, well, since you call people cowards that aren't interested in debating with you, you're a coward yourself, because not being interested in a debate. Quanchilogic apparently just doesn't count when it is used against Quanchi.



*facepalm*

Urm. Why would a spherical battlestation that is equipped with guns on all sides and that features a nigh impenetrable defense system need to "manouver" in combat exactly?

But, you know: We see them continuing their flight around the gas giant Yavin in order to target the Rebel Base in "A New Hope" (manouvering while being attacked), much as we see them targeting various Rebel targets with the main superlaser in "Return of the Jedi" (just manouvering for targeting on a stationary place). So I'm once again back at the question: Did you ever watch a single Star Wars movie?



Let me see.

You quit.
You quit, after crying like a little girl.
You about to get your ass handed to you - as usual - if DarthAnt finds the time (or motivation) to reply.

So?



Maybe you should make challenges on some point close to the time-frame of when you want to have them. Given that "Beyond" is released in July, we won't be seeing any DVD release before January or February (if they follow the usual time frame for that). That is more than a year from now.



Your fangirling over me is certainly understandable, but you shouldn't push other people aside because of that. Especially since that already reveals your dishonesty. You should go with the first one that agreed to play with you. Instead, you were opting for Dark Thor and now me. Pacta sunt servanda, Quanchimon.



*sigh*

I don't need to know anything about it, because observation and math indicate, that a single star destroyer would pretty much curbstomp anything the ST universe has to offer fleet wise (until this day). Those "4,000" ships are those less-than-fighter-sized things we see flying around (and through) the Enterprise in the trailer, which don't bother me at all. And also a big laugh about "being scared" about anything in the context of KMC, debates or movies.



I know that you're big in the ignoring context business. Applying it, would mean that you would put Khan into the exact same situation that Kenobi was in: Having to face Grievous in a lightsaber duel and in hand-to-hand combat. In both instances, Khan would get his ass handed to him in seconds.



Precognition + superspeed > Reflexes.

ypoTgdCTPFM

1:13 - 1:19: Kenobi and Qui-Gon disappear in a blur, dodging shots that are fired at them from a few meters away. So Khan can fire at thin air when dueling a force user greater than Padawan Kenobi.



Dooku has assumed complete control over the guy via a mystical energy field only Force users have access to. The guy is clearly incable of moving on his own. So how should he attack or defend himself exactly?



You're comparing apples to oranges. Awareness doesn't help to defend oneself against Force attacks.
And talking about things that are "irrelevant": How is the Clones attacking the Jedi relevant to this? Is Khan going to serve in a war for three years along the Jedi, just to take one of them out in a backstabbing act? You know very well that, in a head on fight, Clones have zero chances against Force users. As seen here:

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Or in virtual every other fight in which Force users are confronted with "normal people" or even armies worth of droids.



Grievous would also easily crush Khan in melee combat. Where is the point? Being ko'd by a force push? Would happen to Khan, too. Getting downed by Dooku? Yup. Khan would get his ass handed to him, despite all his skull crushing strength. Because the Force > physical strength.



Yeah. Dooku can just crush giant metal columns with the Force. I wonder what happens when he tries the same with some poor guys head. What would stop him from doing that to Khan again, just as example?

3ME5jhsgmB4

2:00 - 2:25: We see those little guns in actions, that pretty much break through asteroids easily on rapid fire. So not "weak blasts" but a damn solid ground and a Jedi probably protecting himself via the Force, unless you have an alternative explanation to offer.

You may also want to note that the Slave I, with some of the seismic charges, destroys rather large parts of the asteroid field. And that is a civil aircraft piloted by a single individual.



Pardon me. Did you watch "Into Darkness" by chance? He takes down two klingon ships. He shoots the cockpit on both occassions. So he doesn't "destroy the ships" but kill the pilots with results in the ships crashing. Meaning you're just overestimating the firepower of that gun.

And I know what Khan is capable of, Quanchimon. It just won't do any good against a Force user out to kill him, because - and here's the inside scoop - he has no means of defending himself against the Force, which can be used to immobilize and kill (offensive) and grants precognition, super speed and the ability to absorb energy (defensive).



I know how the Force works. Do you?
I mean, seriously. You assume that some weird level of concentration is needed to use the Force, yet the Jedi are constantly doing it in combat (precognition, blaster deflection) and you assume that Kenobi can do it in free fall to aim a cable throw and cling to aforementioned cable. Anakin can do it while dropping down on Coruscant or, apparently, just keep himself alive with raw hatred after having lost three limbs, most of his skin and had his lungs burned. Well. But, clearly, stopping the blast wave of an explosion must be beyond them.



They hit the Jedi pretty much in the back, while being in a position of trust for them. We even see that some of the Jedi apparently sense the attacks coming, before they happening but they don't trust their precognition - or are pretty much surrounded by former friends that became enemies. Maybe you want to fetch a dictionary and find out what "context" is, Goofy.



Pardon me, princess. It is still you evading the debate now and proclaiming you want it - maybe - in a years. Which probably depends upon how good "Beyond" works for your side of the argument. I'd advice to grow a brain instead of nuts, as you already appear to be thinking with the ones you have...inside your ovaries.

Nai, when you back down from accepting this which I know you will I'll keep these comments here and I'll come for you after my official battlezone has finished. So the ball is in your court with your laughable arguments in a battlezone challenge thread. Very rarely do I see someone so desperately trying to prove himself to me without accepting the challenge.

But as I said I keep my aces withheld and am not going to have this debate until Beyond hits. You don't get to undermine the very point of this thread and will have to wait so just accept already. Quit running. Do an official debate and out your money where your mouth is, sport.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Nai, when you back down from accepting this which I know you will I'll keep these comments here and I'll come for you after my official battlezone has finished.


"I will debate you 2017. Really. I will." Pathetic.



"I will debate you sometime in summer or in 2017. Or one of the four other guys I have invited to this Battlezone, of whom two have already accepted the challenge. Really. I will." Laughable.



"I need aces to win debates. I can't really reveal my points before because... Reasons...Thus I cannot debate with you now. But I will. In summer. Or 2017."

Seriously, Quanchi. If you need to withhold information from your opposition in order to win debates, you're just pathetic. If you were so convinced about your own arguments, you could have the public examine them now, instead of keeping them away. But you're afraid, because you know that they will be shot down in an instant. If they even exist. As I said: Nothing but hot air of a posing coward. Boring.

Originally posted by Nai
"I will debate you 2017. Really. I will." Pathetic.



"I will debate you sometime in summer or in 2017. Or one of the four other guys I have invited to this Battlezone, of whom two have already accepted the challenge. Really. I will." Laughable.



"I need aces to win debates. I can't really reveal my points before because... Reasons...Thus I cannot debate with you now. But I will. In summer. Or 2017."

Seriously, Quanchi. If you need to withhold information from your opposition in order to win debates, you're just pathetic. If you were so convinced about your own arguments, you could have the public examine them now, instead of keeping them away. But you're afraid, because you know that they will be shot down in an instant. If they even exist. As I said: Nothing but hot air of a posing coward. Boring. The movie won't come out until the summer. It is in the op when this thing starts. I never said now you idiot. Read the op.


Why didn't you accept though ? I want a Star Wars fanboy so you or Darth Thor would be perfect. Neither of you pansies will accept further proving you're all talk.

If I do a battlezone I don't do the battlezone before it officially begins, dummy.

Any strategic intelligent person doesn't reveal his strategy before the battle commences. I've see your pathetic misrepresentation of a case and its subpar. I knew this to be the case reading through your posts prior to when you dismiss facts in favor of your own biased opinion left and right. Fanboys are the easiest to expose.

Do you accept the challenge ?

gd5yB9Vmd6I

Originally posted by quanchi112
The movie won't come out until the summer. It is in the op when this thing starts. I never said now you idiot. Read the op.


More boring excuses for your cowardice. Moving on.



Because I don't plan to do debates on an online forum one year in advance. Mainly because, gosh, I have some life outside KMC. You? Not so much, apparently.



That's a rather big "If", isn't it?



Any intelligent person doesn't need a strategy for a discussion regarding fictional realms on an online forum. Intelligent persons can form arguments without needing a year of preparation time and aren't afraid to test their arguments in front of the public, instead of "hiding aces".



I've seen nothing from you so far, which is, you know, nothing.



Spoke the guy who, apparently, doesn't have an ounce of self-concessioness when it comes to "fanboyism" *Cough*Khan*Cough*



"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over, but expecting different results" - Albert Einstein. I wonder how often you want to ask the same question again, Quanchimon. Answer is still: "No, due to lack of opposition."

Originally posted by Nai
More boring excuses for your cowardice. Moving on.



Because I don't plan to do debates on an online forum one year in advance. Mainly because, gosh, I have some life outside KMC. You? Not so much, apparently.



That's a rather big "If", isn't it?



Any intelligent person doesn't need a strategy for a discussion regarding fictional realms on an online forum. Intelligent persons can form arguments without needing a year of preparation time and aren't afraid to test their arguments in front of the public, instead of "hiding aces".



I've seen nothing from you so far, which is, you know, nothing.



Spoke the guy who, apparently, doesn't have an ounce of self-concessioness when it comes to "fanboyism" *Cough*Khan*Cough*



"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over, but expecting different results" - Albert Einstein. I wonder how often you want to ask the same question again, Quanchimon. Answer is still: "No, due to lack of opposition."
This was in my op and hasn't changed despite your groveling.


You already have multiple posts you can copy and paste. Your life doesn't need to center around this debate so just say you'll accept and after the film hits and I can post evidence in link form we can do this at your leisure. I'm being more than understanding and you can live your life in the meantime.

I've done more than anyone on this forum. Have you done any ?

I don't need a year of preparation time I need the YouTube links to post as evidence from the third film. Your Star Wars films have been out for thirty plus years so that isn't a problem for you. I'm not asking for a day longer than when I can post the YouTube clips.


Any intelligent poster discussing a galactic battle should implement a strategy but clearly you think strategy in a war is moronic. Do you even listen to yourself ?


I know. Accept the challenge and when you can do this I'll post your quotes and this can begin. What are you so scared of ?

I have supported my conclusions when it comes to Khan with character behavior, feats, logic, etc.

So you continue to be a coward. You're gutless. You honestly are one of the biggest pansies I've ever seen online. Talks a big game but makes excuses and wants to leave out the third Star Trek film because you don't think Star Wars can win.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This was in my op and hasn't changed despite your groveling.


This doesn't change the fact, that you're still afraid to have any other kind of ST vs SW related debate. Probably because you always get wrecked.




Don't you get the idea, that this entire forum is just cheap entertainment for me and I'm not even logging on if I think I have better things to spent my time with? You may just look at my posting history to spot my extended periods of absense from KMC. I'm here now.



Does anybody care?



Still wondering why you are so desperate to find an opponent for a Battlezone that won't happen until 2017. Instead of, you know, accepting one of the multiple challenges coming your way in the past days.



Apparently, you think of Battlezones as some kind of "war". Do you even listen to yourself? And I'm very sorry, that my mental faculties put me in a position where I can act and react in debates instantaneous instead of having to put away "aces" and come up with a "strategy" that I both need to keep secret before the debate happens.



What are you so scared of, Quanchimon?



Yeah, right.

"Dooku uses the Force, which he can use to crush huge metal columns to crush Khan's head."
"He did never do that. That's out of character."


"Dooku force chokes Khan the instance he sees him."
"He did never do that to Obi-Wan. So he can't do it to Khan."

You're pathetic, Quanchimon. Nothing else. KMC's laughing stock #1.



*Yawn*
Since you're still the person that declines offers for alternative Battlezones, it's rather apparent who's the coward here.

Originally posted by Nai
This doesn't change the fact, that you're still afraid to have any other kind of ST vs SW related debate. Probably because you always get wrecked.




Don't you get the idea, that this entire forum is just cheap entertainment for me and I'm not even logging on if I think I have better things to spent my time with? You may just look at my posting history to spot my extended periods of absense from KMC. I'm here now.



Does anybody care?



Still wondering why you are so desperate to find an opponent for a Battlezone that won't happen until 2017. Instead of, you know, accepting one of the multiple challenges coming your way in the past days.



Apparently, you think of Battlezones as some kind of "war". Do you even listen to yourself? And I'm very sorry, that my mental faculties put me in a position where I can act and react in debates instantaneous instead of having to put away "aces" and come up with a "strategy" that I both need to keep secret before the debate happens.



What are you so scared of, Quanchimon?



Yeah, right.

"Dooku uses the Force, which he can use to crush huge metal columns to crush Khan's head."
"He did never do that. That's out of character."


"Dooku force chokes Khan the instance he sees him."
"He did never do that to Obi-Wan. So he can't do it to Khan."

You're pathetic, Quanchimon. Nothing else. KMC's laughing stock #1.



*Yawn*
Since you're still the person that declines offers for alternative Battlezones, it's rather apparent who's the coward here. I came into the Star Wars forum and offered the Khan vs. Darth Vader battlezone. You backed down there too. You came into the movie versus forum to troll my thread and not accept. I know better than to ask in the eu thread to offer challenges as the entire fanbase is cowardly save a few. You're not one of the few. Lucky for Star Wars I'm a Snoke guy so I'll give the first order the balls it needs.

So we can do the battlezone when you're ready to log in. It's just a debate ffs and you can already use four posts so the bulk of your work is done. Why not accept ?

I don't care if you care I just undermined your point. Emphasis mine. You haven't done any which I can tell by your ability at excuse making.

I am interested in this one hence why I created the thread. Did my thread say hey guys lets do any old trek/wars debate. No, so when I create these threads I follow it through. Judging from your fickle behavior I doubt you've ever seen anything through your entire life.

I can and clearly have as evidenced by my utter shellacking of you in the Palpatine/Yoda thread. This will be a war type thread. I will use strategy. You think strategy in a war type setting is foolish. You're truly a special person.


Ironic.

He used the force to try and kill Kenobi but did he rip his head off or crush his voice box with a force choke. No. Evidence matters. Your silly little hey why can't this happen ? My responses because it's never happened you deluded fanboy. What I argue Khan does he's actually done in a movie. Your claims live only in your deluded mind.


This thread is very specific. You posted in it. I didn't come ask you to do this. You put up multiple posts debating and then when I mention anything about having the debate officially your life becomes suddenly super busy.

Just walk away with your tail in between your legs like you always do.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I came into the Star Wars forum and offered the Khan vs. Darth Vader battlezone. You backed down there too.


I told you pretty much the same that I tell you today. Not interested, since you're not opponent for me. You still aren't. *shrugs*



I came into the movie versus forum and proposed an alternative BZ. You came up with bad excuses, that repeating ad nauseam doesn't really make any better.



Because. You. Are. No. Opponent. For. Me. Quanchi.



That wasn't any kind of answer to my question, Quanchimon. That you want to do this BZ in 2017 doesn't mean you can't do another now, does it?



And with "shellacking" you mean "ignoring facts and post your oppinion until the opposition gives up out of boredom", because, well, that's what you've done so far.



Quanchilogic 101:
"Khan has never shot a Jedi. So he can't shoot a Jedi. Evidence matters."



Urm. This thread is very specific. You kept answering my posts regarding the actual topic until the point where you saw that you couldn't win, at which you backed down and pointed to "aces" you wouldn't reveal. And my life is always super busy, Quanchimon - outside my vacation that is. Which would be right now.



I'm still here and still laughing at you, Quanchimon.

Originally posted by Nai
I told you pretty much the same that I tell you today. Not interested, since you're not opponent for me. You still aren't. *shrugs*



I came into the movie versus forum and proposed an alternative BZ. You came up with bad excuses, that repeating ad nauseam doesn't really make any better.



Because. You. Are. No. Opponent. For. Me. Quanchi.



That wasn't any kind of answer to my question, Quanchimon. That you want to do this BZ in 2017 doesn't mean you can't do another now, does it?



And with "shellacking" you mean "ignoring facts and post your oppinion until the opposition gives up out of boredom", because, well, that's what you've done so far.



Quanchilogic 101:
"Khan has never shot a Jedi. So he can't shoot a Jedi. Evidence matters."



Urm. This thread is very specific. You kept answering my posts regarding the actual topic until the point where you saw that you couldn't win, at which you backed down and pointed to "aces" you wouldn't reveal. And my life is always super busy, Quanchimon - outside my vacation that is. Which would be right now.



I'm still here and still laughing at you, Quanchimon.

Just a post ago you said you'd do it if I did it now minus the third film now you're saying I'm no opponent for you. You can't even keep a consistent response for a few posts so I can see now it's perfectly clear, it's fear.

You just said a sentence up I'm no opponent for you, dummy. Now let's have an alternative debate. FFS.

Now a sentence below I'm no opponent for you again. Do you have multiple personalities ?

I didn't express an interest in another one. You started debating this topic and I said hold off until the final trek film comes out and I can post the clips. The excuses started rolling in at that point.

You ignored the facts with your shitty little imagination. Yoda gets ko'd on equal ground and gets thrown off a senate pod and somehow Sidious is the guy with shit to prove. Words cannot describe at how moronic you've been shown to be in this debate.


Dooku has never killed a fleshy being in the manner in which you describe. We see him trying to kill Kenobi by using his force powers and he destroys the environment but not Kenobi. Your crazy little imagination where the force rips ballsacks off and rips out nose hairs because dammit man look what he did to the ceiling.


Khan shoots his opponents and a Jedi is his opponent therefore he shoots his opponent.

The debate can't start until Star Trek beyond comes out you idiot. Only a coward would say hey let's have the debate now despite your op. I'm clear you aren't. You go from I am not worth your time to let's do it now minus the third film to hey lets another one back to you're not worth my time.


Get your personalities and your spine in order. Send me the personality with the spine if there is such a thing.

You are an idiot I'll give you that much.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Just a post ago you said you'd do it if I did it now minus the third film now you're saying I'm no opponent for you. You can't even keep a consistent response for a few posts so I can see now it's perfectly clear, it's fear.


You are no opponent for me, Quanchi. But at the moment, I'm in the mood to demonstrate that and have time to do so. In summer? Don't know. Next year? Don't know.



See above. It's either humiliation through cowardice for you or because you dare challenge me. As the result is the same, I don't care.



See above.



Yes.
And by not having interest in another one, you have turned into a coward by your own standards. Being challenged and declining the challenge is always a sign of cowardice, fear, angst. Soundly defeated by turning your own skewed views against you.



Sidious is the guy who was boosted into his own office chair, tried to run from the duel, moved it into a field with advantage for him, still managed to lose his lightsaber and - even from a position of advantage (high ground) couldn't win the Force contest against Yoda. Still, he is somehow Yoda's superior.

And I'm rather sure you're well versed in the art of being moronic, being the least intelligent cretin to ever hit the reply button on KMC.



Oh. Yes. He just crushes throats and snaps necks with a gesture instead of crushing skulls. My bad. So he is - even in theory - totally incapable of doing it, despite the fact that he has no problem tearing apart and crushing much more soild stuff than human bones.



Jedi deflect or dodge shots, Khan shoots, therefore his shots are deflected or dodged. Jedi and Sith use the Force or lightsabers to disarm or kill opponents. The only way to defend against those is having a lightsaber or using the Force yourself. Khan doesn't have a lightsaber and can't use the Force. Khan is either killed or disarmed.



I'm not saying your not worth my time, Quanchi. If I decide so, even staring at a pile of shit can be worth my time. That doesn't mean that the object of interest is itself of any value. You are not. I'm just keeping my English skill in check and use you as a fun way to do so. And you happily follow along, my minion.



I saw what you did there.
May I point once more to the fact, that you started to debate with me and then backed down, when you saw you couldn't win, pointing to "aces" and "strategy" for a discussion that will maybe happen in 2017?

But, please, do serve another load of red herrings to have them thrown right back in your face.

Originally posted by Nai
You are no opponent for me, Quanchi. But at the moment, I'm in the mood to demonstrate that and have time to do so. In summer? Don't know. Next year? Don't know.



See above. It's either humiliation through cowardice for you or because you dare challenge me. As the result is the same, I don't care.



See above.



Yes.
And by not having interest in another one, you have turned into a coward by your own standards. Being challenged and declining the challenge is always a sign of cowardice, fear, angst. Soundly defeated by turning your own skewed views against you.



Sidious is the guy who was boosted into his own office chair, tried to run from the duel, moved it into a field with advantage for him, still managed to lose his lightsaber and - even from a position of advantage (high ground) couldn't win the Force contest against Yoda. Still, he is somehow Yoda's superior.

And I'm rather sure you're well versed in the art of being moronic, being the least intelligent cretin to ever hit the reply button on KMC.



Oh. Yes. He just crushes throats and snaps necks with a gesture instead of crushing skulls. My bad. So he is - even in theory - totally incapable of doing it, despite the fact that he has no problem tearing apart and crushing much more soild stuff than human bones.



Jedi deflect or dodge shots, Khan shoots, therefore his shots are deflected or dodged. Jedi and Sith use the Force or lightsabers to disarm or kill opponents. The only way to defend against those is having a lightsaber or using the Force yourself. Khan doesn't have a lightsaber and can't use the Force. Khan is either killed or disarmed.



I'm not saying your not worth my time, Quanchi. If I decide so, even staring at a pile of shit can be worth my time. That doesn't mean that the object of interest is itself of any value. You are not. I'm just keeping my English skill in check and use you as a fun way to do so. And you happily follow along, my minion.



I saw what you did there.
May I point once more to the fact, that you started to debate with me and then backed down, when you saw you couldn't win, pointing to "aces" and "strategy" for a discussion that will maybe happen in 2017?

But, please, do serve another load of red herrings to have them thrown right back in your face. Ok since you've backtracked again we will do this after the film is available to post links and when you have time and the mood to do so. Agreed ?


I didn't set up this challenge thread for you because you're a pansy who has never had one official battlezone. You acted like you're interested but quake in fear of the numbers Star Trek Beyond is going to have.

No, that would mean I'd change simply by any dumbass who strode my way and pounded his chest. I do battlezones I believe in. I do ones I am interested in and will sacrifice the time and energy to make my case for the specific ones I issue challenges for. This isn't a battlezone quan in anything challenge. Read the op. You've already expressed an interest in this debate and have put up multiple posts so you won't need to produce anywhere near the time for one since you've already basically started.


Sidious is the same guy with everything to lose and is kind of cowardly so completely in character. Yoda failed to best him on equal ground or in the senate pod chamber room. Ironically Sidious briefly ko'd him on equal ground. That's a fact. Yoda fell off the pod not Sidious. That's another fact.

Dooku has never done so and he's used his force powers in an effort to kill the opposition so it isn't an option since you're literally just applying the powers in any way your biased mind can think of without one example to back it up. I've backed up why he can't with in film examples of him attacking to kill without ever doing so. You saying I think he can isn't a legitimate point.

The Jedi were gunned down by the clones. Their entire order save a small group were eradicated. Hell, the droids were hammering the group led by Windu and they were hapless droids even jar jar and his pathetic species destroyed many of them. We see Jango Fett gun down a Jedi as well. You dismissing all these deaths is kind of pathetic.

Jango defended against the force and disarmed a Jedi without the force. He used a weapon. Kenobi dropped that shit. That's how debating works I cite examples to disprove your nonsense. Cad Bane beat Kenobi in hand to hand without the force either just his skills. The force is just another tool for characters just as Jango's gear is his toolbox. Skills vary in both.


Khan is more skilled based off his showing and has faster weapons and more powerful weapons that kill very effectively.

More talk. All you do is chirp like a woman when it's obvious you're afraid to say I accept your challenge because you know you'll lose.

I casually dismissed some points but didn't want to bring my full case to bear in a challenge thread because this debate doesn't start until Beyond's clips are available to post.

NuEnterprise is yet to win a fair match.

Originally posted by playa1258
NuEnterprise is yet to win a fair match. So ? It's gone up against the Narada and the USS Vengeance. It's about heroes overcoming odds not the heroes being more powerful than their antagonists. Why don't you grasp this ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ok since you've backtracked again we will do this after the film is available to post links and when you have time and the mood to do so. Agreed ?


Are you as dense as a neutron star or something. Can you read? Can you process information given to you? Apparently not.


There is still no opponent representing Star Trek. Just you.
I'm not planning debates on KMC a year in advance.
I can't tell if I would be interested any longer.


In short:

No.




Blah. Blah. Blah. Yadda. Yadda. Yadda.



Red herring once again.
You challenge people to BZs and call them cowards, if they don't accept (for whatever reason). If the same is done to you, you attempt to rationalize. Face it: By your own standards, you're a coward. And nothing is going to change that.



Yeah. We already now that you just here to ignore context and troll, Quanchi. Go on. See who cares.



Because those powers can be used in any way if it is just another the same power being used in the same way but just against other targets. If Dooku can crush metal columns with the Force, using the same power in the same way against a human skull would result in a pretty ugly disfigured (in fact outright destroyed) skull. That he never does that in the movies doesn't mean he can't do it. And if you really want to make that stance your debating standard, you better refrain from debating.



Still the backstabbing action of soldiers they completely trusted. And performed by far larger numbers of opponents against single targets. One on one? Nope. And yes. Jango gunned down a Jedi who made the mistake to focus on the Sith Lord (Dooku) in front of him, rather than the bounty hunter. I wonder how that happens in a 1 vs 1.



Jango "disarmed" a Jedi with a rocket to the Jedi's face and despite of his technical gimmicks, his advanced firepower and backup from a freaking starship, he had to run from that Jedi at the end.

Cad Bane? Even better. He attacks two Jedi, gets force pushed, loses both his guns in seconds, manages to get a lightsaber, loses that one in seconds and finally has to resort to a electro stunner to get Kenobi (who wasn't expecting that move). And after wasting his entire arsenal (including two blasters, a jetpack, the "taser", rockets, a flamethrower, bolas and a support droid) on his opponents, he also had to run.

You need far superior numbers or far superior firepower to take Jedi down. A single opponents clearly lacks the first and Khan also lacks the second as well.



Aim is completely useless against people that know where you will fire your shots and can deflect them. The Boolean Gun is virtually the only thing Khan has that makes him a thread at all. But considering the movement speed force users can reach and the acrobatics they are capable of, I doubt he would hit one with it. And that's already assuming that noone decides to force pull it away from him.



Sorry. It's still yourself rationalizing his inability to do any kind of SW vs ST battlezone right now.



We already know your pathetic excuses, Quan. If you don't have more to say, you can just shut up.

Originally posted by Nai
Are you as dense as a neutron star or something. Can you read? Can you process information given to you? Apparently not.


There is still no opponent representing Star Trek. Just you.
I'm not planning debates on KMC a year in advance.
I can't tell if I would be interested any longer.


In short:

No.




Blah. Blah. Blah. Yadda. Yadda. Yadda.



Red herring once again.
You challenge people to BZs and call them cowards, if they don't accept (for whatever reason). If the same is done to you, you attempt to rationalize. Face it: By your own standards, you're a coward. And nothing is going to change that.



Yeah. We already now that you just here to ignore context and troll, Quanchi. Go on. See who cares.



Because those powers can be used in any way if it is just another the same power being used in the same way but just against other targets. If Dooku can crush metal columns with the Force, using the same power in the same way against a human skull would result in a pretty ugly disfigured (in fact outright destroyed) skull. That he never does that in the movies doesn't mean he can't do it. And if you really want to make that stance your debating standard, you better refrain from debating.



Still the backstabbing action of soldiers they completely trusted. And performed by far larger numbers of opponents against single targets. One on one? Nope. And yes. Jango gunned down a Jedi who made the mistake to focus on the Sith Lord (Dooku) in front of him, rather than the bounty hunter. I wonder how that happens in a 1 vs 1.



Jango "disarmed" a Jedi with a rocket to the Jedi's face and despite of his technical gimmicks, his advanced firepower and backup from a freaking starship, he had to run from that Jedi at the end.

Cad Bane? Even better. He attacks two Jedi, gets force pushed, loses both his guns in seconds, manages to get a lightsaber, loses that one in seconds and finally has to resort to a electro stunner to get Kenobi (who wasn't expecting that move). And after wasting his entire arsenal (including two blasters, a jetpack, the "taser", rockets, a flamethrower, bolas and a support droid) on his opponents, he also had to run.

You need far superior numbers or far superior firepower to take Jedi down. A single opponents clearly lacks the first and Khan also lacks the second as well.



Aim is completely useless against people that know where you will fire your shots and can deflect them. The Boolean Gun is virtually the only thing Khan has that makes him a thread at all. But considering the movement speed force users can reach and the acrobatics they are capable of, I doubt he would hit one with it. And that's already assuming that noone decides to force pull it away from him.



Sorry. It's still yourself rationalizing his inability to do any kind of SW vs ST battlezone right now.



We already know your pathetic excuses, Quan. If you don't have more to say, you can just shut up. So you admit you lack the passion and the resolve to commit to anything outside of the moment. What a pathetic human being you are. I can't believe you'd admit this which is shows your determination is like a teenage girl with a crush.

Concession happily accepted, teeny bopper.

Correction I only do so when they talk about how easily they can win a debate say they'll do it then balk at the actual challenge. The op is clear. Don't post in challenge threads if you're not interested in the actual challenge.

You just conceded the point. Kudos.

We see him use force powers to kill an opponent yet no skulls were broken thus you says he does so is without merit as we've never once seen this tactic. Yoda can stop pods coming at him but does he break Palpatine's neck with the force push. Nah. He tried to kill Palpatine and he failed. Dooku tried to kill Kenobi and he failed. Relying on showings and proven facts is the way to debate not imagination stations. You're a child.

Jango took on Kenobi one on one. Did Kenobi prevail ? Nah. So yes numbers matter. Th force clearly didn't. It's a skill set that has been beaten by characters without a connection to the force. Cad Bane, Jango Fett, etc. the excuses you come up with to dance around the obvious. Your claims are baseless.

Jango wasn't there to kill him and he was leaving already. Kenobi was there to bring him in. Kenobi is the same Jedi who defeated Anakin yet he was unable to best Jango. So Jango's weaponry is unfair and gimmicky but the force isn't. You're a joke. You're one of those biased children who just debates by way of his perception and his perception only while skewing whatever facts and showings stand in your way.

Aim clearly matters since Jango disarmed Kenobi. Jango also stopped Kenobi from getting his saber back. Cad Bane defeated Kenobi in combat while two Jedi were in pursuit of him. Aim clearly mattered when order 66 was issued otherwise the Jedi would still be alive if they continued to miss. Somehow precog can see your moves but you hypocritically say Kenobi didn't expect the electro shocker move thus undermining your entire point. Can he see or can't he ?

Which is it ?

Windu and Jango didn't force push Jango's gun away. More baseless claims. Khan also has a shoulder strap on with the phaser cannon.

After Star Trek Beyond hits my teenage little friend.

We can have this debate when you aren't having pms after Beyond clips are available.

*Refuses challenge today, cos reasons*

*Calls others weak for not committing to a challenge that may or may not happen in a year or so*

How does this make sense to anyone.

Originally posted by Robtard
*Refuses challenge today, cos reasons*

*Calls others weak for not committing to a challenge that may or may not happen in a year or so*

How does this make sense to anyone.

This will take place after Star Trek Beyond's film over the summer. It will be trilogy vs. trilogy. This challenge is first being extended to Darth Thor since he always acts like he could beat me in a one on one judged debate. I will be representing ONLY the NuTrek Trilogy while you have your choice of the Prequel trilogy or the Original trilogy. It'll be a space war with all characters from each trilogy only going to war.

I'm saying based off the interviews for Beyond and the sheer numbers of the NuFilm along with the other two films that they'd defeat either Wars trilogy in combat. I'm willing to debate this. Here is your chance to shut me up. Will anyone answer the bell here ?

I put the parts in bold that address my very specific challenge and the time frame.


I get that you're stupid but come on Robbie it is in the first post. Quit begging for attention it's rather sad.

Darth Thor said he put you on ignore, so you're challenging a person who you know has no interest. Very brave of you.

You're still backing away from a challenge today; while chastising someone for not committing to something that may or may not happen in a year or so. See how ridiculous you're being?

Considering the above and your general attitude in here, you have no room to call anyone "stupid" and stop being so angry/emotional, it's just a movie forum.

Originally posted by Robtard
Darth Thor said he put you on ignore, so you're challenging a person who you know has no interest. Very brave of you.

You're still backing away from a challenge today; while chastising someone for not committing to something that may or may not happen in a year or so. See how ridiculous you're being?

Considering the above and your general attitude in here, you have no room to call anyone "stupid" and stop being so angry/emotional, it's just a movie forum. Darth Thor said he wasn't interested but still reads my posts. He's admitted so as of yesterday and even still posts about me but is too cowardly to directly face me. It's what I do.

This thread addresses the challenge of three films vs three films after Beyond comes out. What was unclear in my first post ?

Nai is irrelevant but it's kind of fun to see him post in this thread but continue to run away from my very specific challenge. He's afraid of NuTrek as most are at the hands of me.

Oh calm down and go back to one of your San Fran bathhouses. Star called you out and you just let it happen just like you do in SanFrancisco.

So you know DT's not interested, yet here you still are challenging him. Again, how does this make sense to you?

It's clear you don't have faith in your argument right now, otherwise you'd accept the real challenge right in front of you.

Yet here you are not accepting his challenge.

Another "no you!" retort. These are boring.

Originally posted by Robtard
So you know DT's not interested, yet here you still are challenging him. Again, how does this make sense to you?

It's clear you don't have faith in your argument right now, otherwise you'd accept the real challenge right in front of you.

Yet here you are not accepting his challenge.

Another "no you!" retort. These are boring. He refused out of cowardice. My argument is for three films vs. three films. He is trying to change my argument because he knows Beyond and their numbers clearly matter. Are you even paying attention ?


Yeah, he mocked you and you just took it. Ironic.

IOW: 'I challenge people who have me on ignore and I know beforehand that they won't ever accept so I can declare myself some kind of winner without ever having to actually debate!' -quanchi112

Originally posted by Robtard
IOW: 'I challenge people who have me on ignore and I know beforehand that they won't ever accept so I can declare myself some kind of winner without ever having to actually debate!' -quanchi112 He still reads my arguments and still responds he just won't face me directly. Nail expressed interest but won't dare accept my op. He's yellow like you. Kind recognizes kind.

Is there no Star Wars fanatic out there who would dare challenge the might of Star Trek.

Cowards.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He still reads my arguments and still responds he just won't face me directly. Nail expressed interest but won't dare accept my op. He's yellow like you. Kind recognizes kind.



Funny, I accepted your challenge & all I got was excuses!

"24 hours isn't enough time to prove I have a g/f...Wah Wah Wah."

"You moved the challenge to another message board. No mods on HeroChat will Skype with me. Wah F-ing Wah Wah."

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Funny, I accepted your challenge & all I got was excuses!

"24 hours isn't enough time to prove I have a g/f...Wah Wah Wah."

"You moved the challenge to another message board. No mods on HeroChat will Skype with me. Wah F-ing Wah Wah." You set up a time limit on another board I wasn't aware of and then in an unprecedented first you verified I was correct without a single post by myself.



Now back to the topic, single dad.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You set up a time limit on another board I wasn't aware of and then in an unprecedented first you verified I was correct without a single post by myself.





You still don't get it do you?
Your real life details was PMed to a lot of posters to laugh at you.
Not praise you.

So you gotta wonder, which of your so-called friends here leaked your info out?

Don't worry, I accepted one of his silly challenges; gave him 6 months to achieve it and he still backed out while crying excuses.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
You still don't get it do you?
Your real life details was PMed to a lot of posters to laugh at you.
Not praise you.

So you gotta wonder, which of your so-called friends here leaked your info out? So there are more posters who wanted to prove I did have a gf.

Originally posted by Robtard
Don't worry, I accepted one of his silly challenges; gave him 6 months to achieve it and he still backed out while crying excuses. So you accept the challenge. Ot's or pt's ?