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Who wins ?

Grievous

Grievous stomps the shit out of him. Ren got absolutely wrecked in that movie.

Ren paralyzes him with the force half of one second into the fight and Grievous is literally helpless from that point forward.

If it was that easy, Obi-Wan would have done the same when he fought Grievous.

It is that easy. Grievous gets stomped by Kylo.

I'm not buying it. Both Anakin and Obi-Wan would have taken him with no effort if they could just immobilize Grievous. This is before you even get into the shows, which are canon to the movies and have Grievous fighting plenty of Jedi routinely. Despite this, no one ever immobilized him. Why has that never been a viable option in dealing with him until this thread?

Simple. They don't know how. We've never seen Anakin, Kenobi, or any other Jedi from the films use such a power. Kylo is the first to do so. It's probably something he picked up from Snoke.

Anakin has done it plenty in Clone Wars. I've seen him full out ragdoll people and float/control huge objects around. I'm pretty sure Obi-Wan has too, though I cant explicitly recall it.

Show me a single instance then of them paralyzing someone then.

But yes, they could ragdoll Grievous. They generally don't though because of PIS.

Obi-Wan DID rag-doll Grievous. Are we all forgetting that Obi-Wan ended his duel with Grievous by casually popping him 50 feet into the air with a force push, and Greivous had had to run the **** away?

Paralyzing? That was pretty clearly telekinesis, right down to the aura that held them in place. It just seemed like he didn't have the fine control to ragdoll or throw around like Anakin and Obi-Wan due to being in an early stage of training.

And CIS is possible, but then you have every instance of him fighting a force user ever (and there are many) throughout movies, comics, games, and shows. Not one of them just immobilized him or rag dolled him around. That doesn't feel strange to you? If no one before this point (including those with much more power in the force than Kylo Ren) has shown the ability to just use the force to just stop Grievous, despite there being many chances to do so, why is he susceptible to it here? At what point do you stop chalking it up to CIS? The dude has killed 20+ jedi after all.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Obi-Wan DID rag-doll Grievous. Are we all forgetting that Obi-Wan ended his duel with Grievous by casually popping him 50 feet into the air with a force push, and Greivous had had to run the **** away? You mean when he force pushed him? That wasn't telekinesis. Just a blast of power. He has the ability to legitimately rag doll people around the room and control where they go too.

It's not clearly anything. He froze a blaster bolt. If it is TK it's honestly one of the most impressive displays we've seen yet.

That's just the way it is. If you want you can chalk it up the Jedi Restraint but there is absolutely zero reason to believe Greivous has any defense against the force. Heck, in RotS we even see this when Kenobi sends him flying with a force push.

Edit: Seems Tzeentch already brought this up. And yes, force push is TK. lol

Kylo takes this.. in fact, Kylo can easily hold Grievous in place and then go in for the kill

this one Kylo can win easily actually, remember now that not only was Obi able to Force push Grievous but Mace was able to Force crush his chest plate, Kylo was very impressive with his Force usage so he could definitely pick up the win against the General

Originally posted by Arachnid1
If it was that easy, Obi-Wan would have done the same when he fought Grievous.

Because of PIS.

I know it happens a lot, doesn't mean it still isn't PIS.

Let's forget holding GG in place, why didn't Obi Wan ever use force push on him (e.g when they were close to the edge in their last fight)? We know Obi Wan can do it easily enough. If there is no valid reason, its the very definition of CIS/PIS.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Ren paralyzes him with the force half of one second into the fight and Grievous is literally helpless from that point forward.

Star Wars is not consistent enough to have a No-Limits fallacy.

In short freezing Poe Dameron is not nearly the same thing as freezing General Grievous.



Originally posted by ares834
Simple. They don't know how. We've never seen Anakin, Kenobi, or any other Jedi from the films use such a power. Kylo is the first to do so. It's probably something he picked up from Snoke.




@0:25

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I guess Yoda also picked it up from Snoke.


New Star Wars films are supposed to show us new ways the Force can be applied. Just because we never saw anyone but Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon sprint at super speed, doesn't mean they were the only Jedi who could do it. We obviously know every Jedi whose at least as powerful and well trained as those 2 could do it.

And the fact that Yoda has done it (to another powerful force user no less), suggests it is just about Power level, and not a trick that only Snoke and Kylo know.

And it was already confirmed by Rey that Kylo himself knew he isn't and may never be as Powerful as Darth Vader.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
Kylo takes this.. in fact, Kylo can easily hold Grievous in place and then go in for the kill

/thread

Originally posted by Arachnid1
Grievous stomps the shit out of him. Ren got absolutely wrecked in that movie. Ren wins. I cannot believe you'd argue against Kylo on this one.

Kylo

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Kylo You waited until after I said so to latch on.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
Grievous stomps the shit out of him. Ren got absolutely wrecked in that movie.

Wrong and did you even watch the movie?

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Wrong and did you even watch the movie? That arachnid is always so out there.

Originally posted by Darth Thor


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I guess Yoda also picked it up from Snoke.


New Star Wars films are supposed to show us new ways the Force can be applied. Just because we never saw anyone but Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon sprint at super speed, doesn't mean they were the only Jedi who could do it. We obviously know every Jedi whose at least as powerful and well trained as those 2 could do it.

And the fact that Yoda has done it (to another powerful force user no less), suggests it is just about Power level, and not a trick that only Snoke and Kylo know.

And it was already confirmed by Rey that Kylo himself knew he isn't and may never be as Powerful as Darth Vader.

Such a long response to a mostly irrelevant point. But like I said, I'm far from convinced that the technique is TK because it caught a blaster bolt but rather is more akin to force stasis. And this just reiterates it considering that even Yoda has to hold his arm up when holding someone in place with TK.

Originally posted by ares834
Such a long response to a mostly irrelevant point. But like I said, I'm far from convinced that the technique is TK because it caught a blaster bolt but rather is more akin to force stasis. And this just reiterates it considering that even Yoda has to hold his arm up when holding someone in place with TK.


True I probably didn't have to give you such a long response, especially since you don't need videos and such that you've seen a Bazillion time already Lol. Soz for that.


Yeah I agree about freezing the Blaster Bolt probably being something unique that he was taught from Snoke. The extracting information might be as well.

I wouldn't get too caught up on holding up hands tbh. I think Rey is the first person I've seen do the Jedi mind trick without raising her hand.