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Doomsday - Preboot (hp,dd wars, owaw, dos etc). No clones or alts.
Titus - Version that merged with his weapon.
The General - Shaggy Man Eiling
Gog - JSA Gog (not true Gog)

Vs

Mangog - w/o Asgardian life force.
The Destroyer - Non Odin empowered, but up to animated by Cul.
Durok
Kurse

No bfr, tp. Blasts and movement through teleportation and flight allowed.

Team 2. They have no way of putting down the Destroyer and Mangog would just feed off Doomsdays hate and rage. But aside from that its a damn good fight. There is some legit badasses on DC side.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Team 2. They have no way of putting down the Destroyer and Mangog would just feed off Doomsdays hate and rage. But aside from that its a damn good fight. There is some legit badasses on DC side. I disagree. HP DD would wreck Mangog before he amps off rage to even be a challenge. Plus Mangog doesn't amp fast off rage. He never gained more than 1ton per second when amping off rage. HP DD would end him in less than a minute.


HP DD would wreck Destroyer into scrap metal.

Plus no one could put HP DD down. I don't believe anyone hear can even damage him. If so, then he would just heal up nigh instantly with greater resistance against damage after the attack (he evolves on the fly).

Team 1 wins due to HP DD.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Doomsday - Preboot (hp,dd wars, owaw, dos etc). No clones or alts.

Do you want to be any more specific? Those are all very different versions of DD...

Originally posted by Cogito
Do you want to be any more specific? Those are all very different versions of DD...
Basically HP DD w/o the sentience. For example In DD Wars the physicality, but w/o Brainy's mind. I mentioned DoS beause of his later showings like in HP are superior, but still usable.

So HP doomsday can rip a skyfather empowered Destroyer to shreds?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Basically HP DD w/o the sentience. So H/P Doomsday. Got it.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
So HP doomsday can rip a skyfather empowered Destroyer to shreds?
He ripped Darkseid to shreds

Team 2 wins

I doubt anyone on team 1 can even damage destroy. The only being to physically damage destroyed were the celestial s.

Originally posted by DarkOdin
I doubt anyone on team 1 can even damage destroy. The only being to physically damage destroyed were the celestial s. That was 2000ft Destroyer which is vastly more durable. All skyfather level beings can Slag normal sized Destroyer. He's not indestructible at all. I would say that Destroyer is around 2-5 times more durable than average Superman. And that's being generous.

Originally posted by Cogito
So H/P Doomsday. Got it.


He ripped Darkseid to shreds
Just like Mangog, I'm not confining him in just his hp showings.
I guess basically DD w/o intelligence.. Just straight up a killing machine.

Team doomsday for the win.

Originally posted by h1a8
That was 2000ft Destroyer which is vastly more durable. All skyfather level beings can Slag normal sized Destroyer. He's not indestructible at all. I would say that Destroyer is around 2-5 times more durable than average Superman. And that's being generous. no skyfather has slag standard destroyer which is even harder then mjolnir which superman is no where close

Mangog was a beast!

Mangog walked right threw an attack designed to rip the core of stars apart. It gave him no pause whatsoever.

Heck, Odin blasted Mangog with a shot equating to a star going nova, ... but Mangog kept coming.

Mangog shattered a mountain range with a single blow.

Team 2 SA Mangog and Destroyer will stomp team 1 so hard it wouldn't be fair

Originally posted by Mr Master
Mangog was a beast!

Mangog walked right threw an attack designed to rip the core of stars apart. It gave him no pause whatsoever.

Heck, Odin blasted Mangog with a shot equating to a star going nova, ... but Mangog kept coming.

Mangog shattered a mountain range with a single blow.

Good points!

Can you post a scan (and give issue number) of Odin blasting Mangog with a shot equating to a star going nova and of the one Mangog shattered a mountain range with a single blow?

I have a problem with energy projection feats though. They are not quite the same as blunt force feats. But they are impressive nonetheless. Superman (and Surfer) have survived in the event horizon of a black hole. Those things can easily rip stars apart too. I'm not sure whether to call PIS on those type of feats but I'm leaning towards it.

HP DD is suppose to be well beyond Superman, especially with his ability to adapt on the fly and regenerate instantly. The only way to put him down for good is to one shot him. No one on team 2 can one shot DD. He gets stronger as the fight progresses. Mangog gains strength through absorbing anger but we don't know at what rate. Is it a ton per second, minute, hour, etc?

HP DD has a couple of feats that most overlook. The first is tanking an attack (without any visible damage) that at half power was at least millions of times more powerful than Superman himself. The second feat is completely penetrating through a largely amped Superman's shoulder like a hot knife through butter. This feat clearly shows that DD can damage something at least 10 times more durable with that same attack. 10x more durable than a largely amped Superman is insane. I'm hard pressed to say that anyone on team 2 is more than 10x more durable than a normal Superman.

SA Mangog feeds on hatred, rage, physical and energy contact, and team 1 is amped with it they will make Mangog stronger.

Unless team 1 has SA Odin level power team 1 will get shalacked and Destroyer will be cherry on top

Originally posted by h1a8

Good points!

Originally posted by h1a8

Can you post a scan (and give issue number)
of Odin blasting Mangog with a shot equating to a star going nova

and of the one Mangog shattered a mountain range with a single blow?
Odin blasting Mangog with a shot, that lit up space like a sun going nova:

http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/24161053_Odin_power1.jpghttp://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24741551_Odin_Power.jpg

Odin also simultaneously bfr'd the Asgard land mass out of its universe. Bad ass feat.

------------------------------------------------

Mangog shatters an asgardian mountain with a single blow:

http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/24162071_Mangog_mountain.jpg

------------------------------------------------

The Asgardians at one point dropped the top of a mountain on Mangog:

Mangog shrugged off the mountain debris effortlessly:

http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/24158165_Mangog_asgardians3.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/24158166_Mangog_asgardians5.jpg

"Impossibly the entire multi-million-ton weight of boulders flies through the air..."

------------------------------------------------

Mangog tanks (unharmed) "an energy beam powerful enough to tear apart the core of a star"

http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/24146927_Mangog_Tuff1.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/24146928_Mangog_Tuff2.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/24146929_Mangog_Tuff3.jpg

... as you can see, and then Mangog persists to wreck shop!
Originally posted by h1a8

Mangog gains strength through absorbing anger
but we don't know at what rate. Is it a ton per second, minute, hour, etc?
I see.

But we have to also realize that classic Mangog's base power-level is above Odin's. (not in tricks but raw power)
Odin defeated Mangog because Odin was amped big time. But Odin couldn't defeat Mangog blow for blow,
Odin had to result to de-powering Mangog via disconnecting Mangog from the souls he embodied. (tricks)

And Thor killed him.

But I like how destroying a mountain is supposed to be a great feat. Originally posted by the Darkone
SA Mangog feeds on hatred, rage, physical and energy contact, and team 1 is amped with it they will make Mangog stronger.

Unless team 1 has SA Odin level power team 1 will get shalacked and Destroyer will be cherry on top
Tell that to Thor.

He killed Mangog willy nilly.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And Thor killed him.

But I like how destroying a mountain is supposed to be a great feat.
Tell that to Thor.

He killed Mangog willy nilly.
RKT?

And Rune King Thor would do same to Doomsday?

Originally posted by Mr Master


Odin blasting Mangog with a shot, that lit up space like a sun going nova:

http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/24161053_Odin_power1.jpghttp://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24741551_Odin_Power.jpg

Odin also simultaneously bfr'd the Asgard land mass out of its universe. Bad ass feat.

------------------------------------------------

Mangog shatters an asgardian mountain with a single blow:

http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/24162071_Mangog_mountain.jpg

------------------------------------------------

The Asgardians at one point dropped the top of a mountain on Mangog:

Mangog shrugged off the mountain debris effortlessly:

http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/24158165_Mangog_asgardians3.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/24158166_Mangog_asgardians5.jpg

"Impossibly the entire multi-million-ton weight of boulders flies through the air..."

------------------------------------------------

Mangog tanks (unharmed) "an energy beam powerful enough to tear apart the core of a star"

http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/24146927_Mangog_Tuff1.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/24146928_Mangog_Tuff2.jpg http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/24146929_Mangog_Tuff3.jpg

... as you can see, and then Mangog persists to wreck shop!

I see.

But we have to also realize that classic Mangog's base power-level is above Odin's. (not in tricks but raw power)
Odin defeated Mangog because Odin was amped big time. But Odin couldn't defeat Mangog blow for blow,
Odin had to result to de-powering Mangog via disconnecting Mangog from the souls he embodied. (tricks) I remember those. I thought you were referring to something I haven't seen. In the Odin blast feat, to me it's not quite clear. In the mountain feat, it looked rather silly and weak imo. That mountain looked very small. Nothing from that amazes me. Gladiator shattering a planet was far better. Or Thor shattering mountain tops after hitting Exitar is even better.

Yes Mangog can lift at least millions of tons. But so can Superman. Tbh, to be out of Herald tier Mangog needs planetary level feats or higher. Not mountain ones. Classic Odin isn't that physically strong imo. I would say he's peers with Thor, maybe a little more so. Anyway Mangog durability is what the deal is. To me it far outweighs his strength. I'm pretty sure Mangog can't kill Thor in a single hit.

DD was very durable too. I listed a couple of feats by him. Plus the sheer strength is insane. DD heals, Mangog wasn't shown too (he hardly was hurt).

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
RKT?
Normal Thor.

You're the one who was arguing SA mangog was Jurgens Mangog, remember?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Normal Thor.

You're the one who was arguing SA mangog was Jurgens Mangog, remember?
Normal Thor killed Mangog "willy nilly"?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Normal Thor killed Mangog "willy nilly"?
Yes. With an anti force blast down his throat.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes. With an anti force blast down his throat.
He beat him, but I don't think he killed him.

Yes, he did.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, he did.
Really? I don't remember the arc saying anything about him dying.

Pretty sure Mangog was back, like not even 5 pages later after Thor anti-matter blasted him.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
Pretty sure Mangog was back, like not even 5 pages later after Thor anti-matter blasted him.
Nah. He was at the very least incapacitated.

What exactly is "anti-force?" I've read the Mangog example in discussion, but never really seen it elsewhere, and only vaguely remember someone describing it. Any scans of what is it, please?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Nah. He was at the very least incapacitated.

I didn't say he wasn't incapacitated, but I'm almost positive he was back shortly thereafter.

Originally posted by Delta1938
What exactly is "anti-force?" I've read the Mangog example in discussion, but never really seen it elsewhere, and only vaguely remember someone describing it. Any scans of what is it, please?
Not sure really. It's some super duper blast that can actually tear a planet apart.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
I didn't say he wasn't incapacitated, but I'm almost positive he was back shortly thereafter.
Nah.. He got taken out indefinitely. Pretty sure he fell a long way and possibly buried by ice/snow.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Not sure really. It's some super duper blast that can actually tear a planet apart.

sneer Well, you were a big help.

Originally posted by Delta1938
sneer Well, you were a big help.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y170/joeno/Mangog/thor2-022pic3.gif

You want Delta down your throat??

She be female.

Edit: I just got what you were implying....sorry, no, I won't join in.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
She be female.
Well your post says otherwise.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Really? I don't remember the arc saying anything about him dying.
I'm pretty sure he was dead at that time.

This went from not the best day for that to disturbing.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17

Normal Thor killed Mangog "willy nilly"?
Come on celey, you know that's the same ol' same ol' ...

... "willy nilly" my ass: Thor got k.o'd 3 times, and Mangog didn't finish Thor off cause Thanos didn't want it.


http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751157_M1.jpghttp://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751190_M.jpghttp://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751158_M2.jpghttp://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751159_M3.jpghttp://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751160_M4.jpg

http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751161_M5.jpghttp://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751162_M6.jpghttp://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751163_M7.jpghttp://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751164_M8.jpg

continues below ....

http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751165_M9.jpghttp://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751166_M10.jpghttp://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751167_M11.jpghttp://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751168_M12.jpghttp://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751169_M13.jpg

http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751170_M14.jpghttp://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751171_M15.jpghttp://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751172_M16.jpghttp://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751173_M17.jpghttp://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751174_M18.jpg

continues below ...

http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751175_M19.jpghttp://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751176_M20.jpghttp://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751177_M21.jpghttp://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751178_M22.jpg

http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751179_M23.jpghttp://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751180_M24.jpghttp://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751181_M25.jpghttp://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/24751182_M26.jpg

That comedy aside, there's also a discrepancy.

I do wonder how this Mangog manifested? Why was it Thanos' b*tch?
This Mangog claimed it's classic power, but then it kinda feared Thanos.

There's a gap in Mangog's history between the time "Igron" the asgardian sorcerer
empowered Mangog with the life-force of Asgardians ... to the Thanos incident.

In any case, Mangog (asgardian life-force amp) was never as powerful as he was originally:

http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/24751199_Man1.jpghttp://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/24751200_Man2.jpghttp://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/24751201_Man3.jpg

I searched everywhere, and there's no answer as to how Mangog re-appeared after he lost the asgardian amp,
and why exactly he was working for Thanos, or rather, why did he fear Thanos even before Thanos amped himself?

Classic Mangog would've crushed Thanos for lulz.

Originally posted by Delta1938
This went from not the best day for that to disturbing.

It nips bad feelings in the bud

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Team 2 wins Originally posted by Utrigita
Team doomsday for the win. yeah that is true doomsday win this

Originally posted by Mr Master
That comedy aside, there's also a discrepancy.

I do wonder how this Mangog manifested? Why was it Thanos' b*tch?
This Mangog claimed it's classic power, but then it kinda feared Thanos.

There's a gap in Mangog's history between the time "Igron" the asgardian sorcerer
empowered Mangog with the life-force of Asgardians ... to the Thanos incident.

In any case, Mangog (asgardian life-force amp) was never as powerful as he was originally:

http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/24751199_Man1.jpghttp://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/24751200_Man2.jpghttp://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/24751201_Man3.jpg

I searched everywhere, and there's no answer as to how Mangog re-appeared after he lost the asgardian amp,
and why exactly he was working for Thanos, or rather, why did he fear Thanos even before Thanos amped himself?

Classic Mangog would've crushed Thanos for lulz.
Backpaddling FTW.

Nobody said Thor killed Mangog in h2h.

You know what the best part of this is? Mangog was never depowered and his last appearance in Thunderstrike is at his SA power level too.

Odin went down to Mangog easier than Thor did.

Looks like Odin was physically weaker than Thor after all in SA.

For the record Thor clearly states that Mangog is more powerful than ever here.

Originally posted by guy222
http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/7055315_tstrike_05_04-05.jpg http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/7055316_tstrike_05_07.jpg http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/7055317_tstrike_05_08.jpg http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/7055318_tstrike_05_09.jpg http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/7055319_tstrike_05_10.jpg

http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/7055341_tstrike_05_11.jpg http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/7055342_tstrike_05_15.jpg http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/7055343_tstrike_05_16.jpg http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/7055344_tstrike_05_17.jpg http://s1d4.turboimagehost.com/t/7055345_tstrike_05_18.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
Backpaddling FTW.

Nobody said Thor killed Mangog in h2h.

You know what the best part of this is? Mangog was never depowered and his last appearance in Thunderstrike is at his SA power level too.

Odin went down to Mangog easier than Thor did.

Looks like Odin was physically weaker than Thor after all in SA.
That's why I didn't confine DD to hp and Mangog to his early showing.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Basically HP DD w/o the sentience. For example In DD Wars the physicality, but w/o Brainy's mind. I mentioned DoS beause of his later showings like in HP are superior, but still usable.

H/P, DD WARS and OWAW are all the same Doomsday physically.

Originally posted by Delta1938
H/P, DD WARS and OWAW are all the same Doomsday physically.
Your a Superman expert. Where else did DD show up. Was the one the Kandorian's killed the same DD? Or the one that Superman rescued in Reign of DD?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Your a Superman expert. Where else did DD show up. Was the one the Kandorian's killed the same DD?

Unless I missed something, the next time he shows-up after OWAW was SUPERMAN #175, where he has normal intelligence and Luthor says he has Kryptonian DNA added. I do not know what the details are, if they even covered it. But he was basically sold to Darkseid at the end of the issue. The next time he appears that I'm aware of is a lead-up to Gog's introduction, as Doomsday plays a role in that. Still intelligent, looks a bit different. Far as I know it's the same Doomsday the Kandorians killed.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Or the one that Superman rescued in Reign of DD?

I haven't read the storyline yet.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Unless I missed something, the next time he shows-up after OWAW was SUPERMAN #175, where he has normal intelligence and Luthor says he has Kryptonian DNA added. I do not know what the details are, if they even covered it. But he was basically sold to Darkseid at the end of the issue. The next time he appears that I'm aware of is a lead-up to Gog's introduction, as Doomsday plays a role in that. Still intelligent, looks a bit different. Far as I know it's the same Doomsday the Kandorians killed.



I haven't read the storyline yet.
Hmm..
Can anyone add to this?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Hmm..
Can anyone add to this?
Doomsday was cloned in Superman 175 adding Superman's DNA. It was sold to Darkseid.

Entropy Aegis killed him. Darkseid created another Doomsday who escaped in Gog Wars. He was then left at the center of Earth at the end of Gog Wars and was controlled by Dr. Psycho in Infinite Crisis and was killed by Supermen. Lex created another doomsday and it was killed by kandorians.

Real doomsday appeared in Reign of Doomsday. That's it.

Didn't Imperiex Prime also kill Doomsday by reducing him to a glowing skeleton?

I don't know much about this Mangog btw, but he seems pretty OP. His feats are really impressive, but I'm not exactly sold on him being able to put Doomsday down.

SA Mangog was powerful enough to defeat SA Odin and Asgardian weapons that would a$$ rape any version of DD

Originally posted by the Darkone
SA Mangog was powerful enough to defeat SA Odin and Asgardian weapons that would a$$ rape any version of DD

Odin is galaxy level, which is less than it took for Imperiex Prime to kill Doomsday.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Doomsday was cloned in Superman 175 adding Superman's DNA. It was sold to Darkseid.

Entropy Aegis killed him. Darkseid created another Doomsday who escaped in Gog Wars. He was then left at the center of Earth at the end of Gog Wars and was controlled by Dr. Psycho in Infinite Crisis and was killed by Supermen. Lex created another doomsday and it was killed by kandorians.

Real doomsday appeared in Reign of Doomsday. That's it.

Huh what issue was it that Doomsday from SUPERMAN #175 was a clone?

Rectal cancer ftw.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Odin is galaxy level, which is less than it took for Imperiex Prime to kill Doomsday. Not anymore, I don't think. Not for a long time.

In the modern era, Galactus at his angriest wiped out 3 solar systems, not even remotely close to a galaxy.

Odin is somewhere below that.




How do we know? Residual damage?
Because Imperiex packs enough raw entropy to wipe the multiverse. It's hard to gauge the power used. But we know Doomsday is more powerful than skyfathers.

Negative. Thats a high end showing that all characters have. DC side is trying to fanwank to no end. Thor has survived the Godbomb that went off across all times and universes. He also hurt a multiversal being. And beyonders. He would one shot everybody here at same time.

See what I did there? I used piss poor debating skills, took things out of context and only used high end showing to make a character sound a lot more powerful than they are. Sorry, but pretty sure we go by averages unless stated and Doomsday sure as hell isnt above odin on average.

Doomsday proved time and time again to be stronger than gods.

He crushed Darkseid faster than a cop crushing donuts -- stronger than gods, he's conquered entire innumerable pantheons including the Greek, which is most powerful in DC. Odin is scared of him -- a being who can create realities. He created Stayne, he helped Superman beat Imperiex, he helped stop Antimonitor. The Lords of Order and Chaos fear him, etc etc.

More powerful than Guardians. back in the day, a single Guardian was considered nearly as powerful as the GL Power Battery, one even powered the entire GLC for a time when the Battery was gone, we know the feats of the power battery, it was wipe reality. Superboy Prime absorbing the power of a Guardian made him a rival to Monitors and Monarch, who also packed the energy required to wipe a universe.

He eventually died to Imperiex.

Even Wonder Woman who has fought with and against gods many times couldn't even make Doomsday budge.

In their initial fight, Superman had to dig deeper into his well of power than he ever had just to put him down and got put in his own Odinsleep for the effort. Superman at the height of his power, is among the mightiest beings in DCU, and is well above everyone on this list when required to be.


Where do you put his average?

Also, lol @ Thor harming guys as feats.

Originally posted by Juntai
Also, lol @ Thor harming guys as feats.

what level was glory when thor killed him?

facepalm

Horrible wanky logic being thrown around here.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
facepalm

Horrible wanky logic being thrown around here.

problem

Originally posted by Juntai
Doomsday proved time and time again to be stronger than gods.

He crushed Darkseid faster than a cop crushing donuts -- stronger than gods, he's conquered entire innumerable pantheons including the Greek, which is most powerful in DC. Odin is scared of him -- a being who can create realities. He created Stayne, he helped Superman beat Imperiex, he helped stop Antimonitor. The Lords of Order and Chaos fear him, etc etc.

More powerful than Guardians. back in the day, a single Guardian was considered nearly as powerful as the GL Power Battery, one even powered the entire GLC for a time when the Battery was gone, we know the feats of the power battery, it was wipe reality. Superboy Prime absorbing the power of a Guardian made him a rival to Monitors and Monarch, who also packed the energy required to wipe a universe.

He eventually died to Imperiex.

Even Wonder Woman who has fought with and against gods many times couldn't even make Doomsday budge.

In their initial fight, Superman had to dig deeper into his well of power than he ever had just to put him down and got put in his own Odinsleep for the effort. Superman at the height of his power, is among the mightiest beings in DCU, and is well above everyone on this list when required to be.


Where do you put his average? so basically what I got was no limits fallacy for Superman and hence Doomsday?

There is horrible logic being thrown around. And for the lol@thors feats. I was being sarcastic at all of the wanking, and bias. But you just proved my point. Thank you.

DC fans use that imperiex showing to somehow claim the entire Justice League is a bunch of multiversal beings. And they just proved my point by lowballing anything Marvel does, even if its equal to theirs. Because for some reason, because they dont like it. It doesent count.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
so basically what I got was no limits fallacy for Superman and hence Doomsday?

There is horrible logic being thrown around. And for the lol@thors feats. I was being sarcastic at all of the wanking, and bias. But you just proved my point. Thank you.

DC fans use that imperiex showing to somehow claim the entire Justice League is a bunch of multiversal beings. And they just proved my point by lowballing anything Marvel does, even if its equal to theirs. Because for some reason, because they dont like it. It doesent count.
So you have nothing in regards to building an average for him?

No, it's not ano limits for Doomsday. he got beat by being dumped into the entropy at the end of all things in H/P, and he got beat by a being weilding enough entropy to wipe reality against Imperiex. Essentially the same source.

However, outside of that, he is above skyfathers in his average showing. Several characters including skyfather and above beings tried to challenge Doomsday, and none of them could stand up to him, save Superman going balls out and dumping his energy, his reserve and his lifeforce into it. By the time of H/P, even amped Superman wasn't much good against him.
Most characters couldn't even give him pause.

So where do you put his average?

Thor has far better fts so it really doesn't matter. When it comes to fighting skyfathers and Abstracts, his fts sh*** on any Herald.

Originally posted by carver9
Thor has far better fts so it really doesn't matter. When it comes to fighting skyfathers and Abstracts, his fts sh*** on any Herald. You mean Mjolnir feats. What good is Mjolnir if it is knocked from Thor or Thor is forced to drop it due to a severe shot to the head?

Thor never hurt an Abstract. Chaos king and Glory were not abstracts, neither was the Beyonders. Abstracts can't be physically touched since they are abstract.

facepalm

Originally posted by carver9
Thor has far better fts so it really doesn't matter. When it comes to fighting skyfathers and Abstracts, his fts sh*** on any Herald. Better feats than who?

Originally posted by h1a8
You mean Mjolnir feats. What good is Mjolnir if it is knocked from Thor or Thor is forced to drop it due to a severe shot to the head?

Thor never hurt an Abstract. Chaos king and Glory were not abstracts, neither was the Beyonders. Abstracts can't be physically touched since they are abstract.

Mjlonir is a part of Thor. Whatever fts Thor has done with his hammer is part of him. You might as well take Tony Stark fts away from him since it is it is his armor that is doing the work rather than Tony himself.

Originally posted by Juntai
Better feats than who?

"Any Herald".

Originally posted by h1a8
You mean Mjolnir feats. What good is Mjolnir if it is knocked from Thor or Thor is forced to drop it due to a severe shot to the head?

Thor never hurt an Abstract. Chaos king and Glory were not abstracts, neither was the Beyonders. Abstracts can't be physically touched since they are abstract.


Im sorry, but that really confuses me. Is that a rule somewhere? Hasnt both Batman and Superman physically hurt abstracts? Because I guarantee if I made that statement or Carver or anybody about abstracts you would be all over their ass. Thor has hurt abstracts. He can be dynamic as well. Cant just make your own rules up about how comic physics work.

Originally posted by carver9
"Any Herald". Perhaps.
Supes has the best feats of any of the conventional A listers, but he's no herald.

But if you mean to include the characters like Superman, then no, he doesn't.

Heralds of Galactus are the benchmark of this class, hence it's name, and surely Thor smacks them around almost every time he fights them. But Superman and his powerful enemies are many levels above this.

But I can see the confusion you get, because he sometimes gets knocked around momentarily by a herald level character. However, the characters who engage him are counting on his restraint, his fear of hurting innocents and causing egregious collateral damage and whatever plan they have concocted to allow them to gain the upper hand temporarily. Most of them have plotted long in advance of actually meeting him, because the DC heros and villains tend to know exactly the types of scenarios that will bring Superman to battle. Or they engage him entirely on their own while he's doing other things.

Even some of the mightiest beings on Earth such as Black Adam , who as we know as of WW3, is almost unstoppable in the absence of Superman and has the physical attributes of many gods relies on these things also. Notice Superman rushing around saving people while simultaneously fighting him, and still made him back down as he started getting stronger and stronger, because he again relied on Superman's restraint.

But when Superman is not doing this, he's been shown to walk over gods and demons and abstracts and whatnot rather easily.

Thor is still well below Thanos. A serious Superman runs over him. That's your power difference. Superman has one shot guys in the trans tier, and railroaded skyfathers. Thor can sometimes punch above his weight class and do amazing things, Supes' weight class is above gods, just as characters in his rogues gallery like Mxy, Doomsday and Darkseid and Brainiac are, but he's benevolent, and restrains his power immensely.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Odin is galaxy level, which is less than it took for Imperiex Prime to kill Doomsday.

SA Odin wasn't galaxy level hell the he was written he was abstract level, his feats say so I dont. Odin is universal but at the low end of it, his feats alone has shown this.

Originally posted by the Darkone
SA Odin wasn't galaxy level hell the he was written he was abstract level, his feats say so I dont. Odin is universal but at the low end of it, his feats alone has shown this.

Yeah, in the Silver Age, Odin was among the most powerful characters around as the heirarchy hadn't really been set yet. But back then Superman could destroy the multiverse by flying fast. So take SA stories with a grain of salt. They don't really hold much bearing on modern characters, even if they are still technically canon.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Doomsday was cloned in Superman 175 adding Superman's DNA. It was sold to Darkseid.

Entropy Aegis killed him. Darkseid created another Doomsday who escaped in Gog Wars. He was then left at the center of Earth at the end of Gog Wars and was controlled by Dr. Psycho in Infinite Crisis and was killed by Supermen. Lex created another doomsday and it was killed by kandorians.

Real doomsday appeared in Reign of Doomsday. That's it.
I thought that was essentially the same DD meaning he was revived from bones using some kryp DNA..?

Originally posted by carver9
Mjlonir is a part of Thor. Whatever fts Thor has done with his hammer is part of him. You might as well take Tony Stark fts away from him since it is it is his armor that is doing the work rather than Tony himself. Iron man suit is more apart of Tony than Mjolnir is apart of Thor. Thor drops Mjolnir and it isn't part of him. Anyway, it's semantics. Why argue? You know what I mean.

I don't value those type of feats as much as feats from him since Thor can be separated from Mjolnir very easily by another high Herald or above.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Im sorry, but that really confuses me. Is that a rule somewhere? Hasnt both Batman and Superman physically hurt abstracts? Because I guarantee if I made that statement or Carver or anybody about abstracts you would be all over their ass. Thor has hurt abstracts. He can be dynamic as well. Cant just make your own rules up about how comic physics work. No one has hurt abstracts PHYSICALLY. THEY CAN'TCAN'T BE TOUCHED PHYSICALLY.

Originally posted by h1a8
Iron man suit is more apart of Tony than Mjolnir is apart of Thor. Thor drops Mjolnir and it isn't part of him. Anyway, it's semantics. Why argue? You know what I mean.

I don't value those type of feats as much as feats from him since Thor can be separated from Mjolnir very easily by another high Herald or above.

How is a High Herald separating Mjlonir from Thor. Use Superman as an example.

Originally posted by carver9
How is a High Herald separating Mjlonir from Thor. Use Superman as an example. A viscious blow to the head will cause Thor to drop the hammer.

Originally posted by h1a8
A viscious blow to the head will cause Thor to drop the hammer.

Then Thor will call it back to himself or control it as a weapon against Supes. There is no taking Mjlonir from Thor just like you can't take Superman heat vision from him.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
DC fans use that imperiex showing to somehow claim the entire Justice League is a bunch of multiversal beings.

Wut?

But the JLA ARE multiversal.

Originally posted by h1a8
No one has hurt abstracts PHYSICALLY. THEY CAN'TCAN'T BE TOUCHED PHYSICALLY.

Ok man, think were having a miscommunication here. I agree that abstracts shouldnt be physically hurt because thats stupid. Are you saying beings like Shuma, Galactus, Death, beyonders arent powerful enough to be abstracts or just that abstract beings cant be touched?

Someone made the claim that high heralds in Marvel are basically metas in DC and I thought your trying to say beyonder is like trans level or something.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Ok man, think were having a miscommunication here. I agree that abstracts shouldnt be physically hurt because thats stupid. Are you saying beings like Shuma, Galactus, Death, beyonders arent powerful enough to be abstracts or just that abstract beings cant be touched?

Someone made the claim that high heralds in Marvel are basically metas in DC and I thought your trying to say beyonder is like trans level or something. I'm claiming that abstracts can't be physically touched. Has nothing to do with how powerful they are.

Originally posted by h1a8
I'm claiming that abstracts can't be physically touched. Has nothing to do with how powerful they are.

So Abstracts can't touch each other?

Originally posted by carver9
So Abstracts can't touch each other? Not physically. And a non abstract being can't physically touch an abstract being. Otherwise, they are not abstract at all. There M bodies are just avatars, not actually them

Damn. Carvers going to have to rewrite his LT fanfic now.

Originally posted by h1a8
Not physically. And a non abstract being can't physically touch an abstract being. Otherwise, they are not abstract at all. There M bodies are just avatars, not actually them

Ok. Gotchya.

I distinctly remember this a 4 on 4 with other powerful beings other than Doomy and Mangy. Like Titus and Destroyer for example...

Yeah, it took a turn somewhere. I still dont see anybody here reducing a skyfather empowered destroyer into scrap metal. Cul shrugged off the combined magic attacks from skymothers and every significant female magic user, Thor, and Odinson with Jarnborn and he was holding back the whole time.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
Yeah, it took a turn somewhere. I still dont see anybody here reducing a skyfather empowered destroyer into scrap metal. Cul shrugged off the combined magic attacks from skymothers and every significant female magic user, Thor, and Odinson with Jarnborn and he was holding back the whole time.
Hmm.. Not really sure if Cul can be labeled skyfather level when he was in control of the Destroyer..

It depends on whose in control right? It should be more powerful than if Loki was controlling it?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Damn. Carvers going to have to rewrite his erotic LT fanfic now.

Kinda hard to write about getting hot and heavy when your hand, or anything, passes right through them.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
It depends on whose in control right? It should be more powerful than if Loki was controlling it?
Yar... Should be.

Team 2

It's nice to see that Mangog is still Top-Tier.