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Curious if anyone has any of the newer Sourcebooks and could shed some light, but has the new canon dumbed down the lightsaber and just made it a generic energy blade that can cut through things?

Is there still that weightlessness of the blade and gyroscope effect and needing the Mastery of the Force to truly master it?

Or is it now just some generic energy blade that Force Users use?

In the context of what you said yes they have.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Curious if anyone has any of the newer Sourcebooks and could shed some light, but has the new canon dumbed down the lightsaber and just made it a generic energy blade that can cut through things?

Is there still that weightlessness of the blade and gyroscope effect and needing the Mastery of the Force to truly master it?

Or is it now just some generic energy blade that Force Users use?

The thing is, we never saw a non-force user have that much problem with it before. Grievous used 'em just fine, after all, and I think there were a few other non-force-users who were able to swing around a blade in EU stuff.

You still need the force to do the best stuff like deflect blaster fire, but I don't think the sabers have been particularly changed.

Grievous was a cyborg with algorithms to use his lightsabers. That's like saying a training droid is an example of why you don't need the Force to use a saber. The only non-Force Users to use lightsabers effectively were Pre Vizsla and, probably, Finn, that I know of. In Legends it's outright stated mastery of the Force is needed to master it.

Have they dumbed down lightsabers?

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lu7l9wbXQV1qgfp31o1_400.gif

No. No they have not.

Originally posted by Q99
The thing is, we never saw a non-force user have that much problem with it before. Grievous used 'em just fine, after all, and I think there were a few other non-force-users who were able to swing around a blade in EU stuff.

You still need the force to do the best stuff like deflect blaster fire, but I don't think the sabers have been particularly changed.

Ya but Grevious was all cybnetically enhanced and everything, so him using lightsabers especially 2-4 isn't much a stretch.

Sure Non-Force Users can swing them around, but it's still noted that it has unique things that make them difficult to wield properly and not like a regular blade.

If it's just become some genetic blade where it's only quality is that it can cut through stuff, kinda disappointed.

I think they messed it up with the whole kyber crystal thing

They didn't dumb it down so much as they just reverted its sanctity back to what it was in the original trilogy (so the old OLD canon). Han briefly used a lightsaber in ESB and he was completely unfazed by seeing one in ANH. Lightsabers in the OT were just laser-swords that anyone could theoretically use in at least its most basic function (cutting things / people). It wasn't until the PT and subsequent EU went full retard and turned Jedi into literal space-wizards that lightsabers got deified into some weird magical-monk weapon.

The clearest way to think about it is that anyone can use a lightsabers, but only a force user can use it to it's maximun potential.

And only a Force user can get the crystals to make them.

The mystical aspect is related to the Crystals which have some kind of connection to force users.

Eh, of all mystic mumbo jumbo, lightsabers was the one thing I was fine with being Jedi/Sith only. Especially considering each lightsaber is still mystically tied to each Force user in canon.

Don't you just hate it when they dumb things down for just being,dare I say it,LAZY.
We had a reliable source of information to tell us what things are.

Now they want to go back and change things because of the movie.
Well I'm EU 4 life. Even some of the you tube guys don't like this new canon crap.
They changed the light saber forms,into very small meaningless paragraphs that don't explain,
fully what Form I-VII is.

Calling it form 1 instead of Shii Cho,etc.
But they steal ideas and content from EU but its no longer canon .
Kill off good characters like Asaj Ventress,and Tholme for what?!

Well I hope they're happy with this new canon,I'm not.I personally don't like it.
In my truth EU is canon, and the rest is just, bantha poo doo.

Nope. You're just butt hurt.

Originally posted by juyomaster34
Don't you just hate it when they dumb things down for just being,dare I say it,LAZY.
We had a reliable source of information to tell us what things are.

Now they want to go back and change things because of the movie.
Well I'm EU 4 life. Even some of the you tube guys don't like this new canon crap.
They changed the light saber forms,into very small meaningless paragraphs that don't explain,
fully what Form I-VII is.

Calling it form 1 instead of Shii Cho,etc.
But they steal ideas and content from EU but its no longer canon .
Kill off good characters like Asaj Ventress,and Tholme for what?!

Well I hope they're happy with this new canon,I'm not.I personally don't like it.
In my truth EU is canon, and the rest is just, bantha poo doo.
Lightsaber forms still have the same names and same designs.


Also, holy **** it's juyo.

Wassup' Fresh,I see I missed alot.
I'm just trying to catch up i 've been gone too long.
I'm gonna ignore Syndicate reply and just say what it do Syn?

I'm not checking any butt hurts just expessing my love for the EU.
And my peace. nice to read your replies Fresh.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Han briefly used a lightsaber in ESB and he was completely unfazed by seeing one in ANH.

Even if you are trolling, you know full well there's a difference from using a lightsaber for 3 seconds as opposed to full fledged combat.

Or at least I hope so.

How does that address my point at all?

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Ya but Grevious was all cybnetically enhanced and everything, so him using lightsabers especially 2-4 isn't much a stretch.

Sure Non-Force Users can swing them around, but it's still noted that it has unique things that make them difficult to wield properly and not like a regular blade.

Non force users never had an actual problem doing so in old EU. It's an informed attribute at best.


Jedi are still probably the only ones who'd find it a reasonable battlefield weapon, but others have used them on occasion. Heck, there was even a culture that loved dueling with basically low-power saber equivalents.

Originally posted by Q99
Non force users never had an actual problem doing so in old EU. It's an informed attribute at best.


Jedi are still probably the only ones who'd find it a reasonable battlefield weapon, but others have used them on occasion. Heck, there was even a culture that loved dueling with basically low-power saber equivalents.

Right they've used it, but not in the manner Force Users would. I mean you don't see them weaving shields of light or deflecting'/blocking blaster shots, or pulling ridiculous and highly acrobatic maneuvers with their saber whirling all around them.

My main worry is that in this new canon, people are just gonna be popping up with lightsabers because they found them and treat it like a regular blade.

Which then is gonna bring up, what exactly is the point of having Vibroweapons ya know?

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Right they've used it, but not in the manner Force Users would. I mean you don't see them weaving shields of light or deflecting'/blocking blaster shots, or pulling ridiculous and highly acrobatic maneuvers with their saber whirling all around them.

Well, yea, and there's no signs that any non-force user is going to be deflecting blaster bolts. Why would you worry about that?

Simply whirling around, though... that's not too hard.




Is there any sign of this?

Note that people using lightsabers because they found them was a thing in *old* canon too, but not too common because sabers are still expensive and hard to make. And the new movie has all of *two* lightsabers in the whole thing, Kylo's and Anakin/Luke's.


There was an example in the Bane era, where a brotherhood soldier had one to try and intimidate opposing troops into thinking he was a sith lord (after picking it up off a sithlord), got killed, and it was revealed to the ones who took him down, 'don't feel too proud, that was just a faker.'


Anyone could cut down normal foes with a saber, it's just sans force reflexes, it's not at all worth it and there's minimal advantage over other available melee weapons. A saber is only worth the much higher cost if you either find it, or you can use it to deflect blaster bolts.


It strikes me that there's three concerns here:
1) Non-force users able to wield sabers
2) Non-force users able to do Jedi stuff with sabers
3) Common sabers

1 was a thing in the old EU. 2 and 3 show no sign of being the case.

I guess so....though the Arena thing in the Star Wars comic run had a whole room full of lightsabers, so I guess that's where my worry of them becoming common is....eh maybe I'm just over thinking it.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Nope. You're just butt hurt.
Originally posted by juyomaster34
Here's where I get off jack off.
I know how to use my words bruh,twisted and broken.
Hence the topic a dance with the dark side **** the rest of it.

Since you like riding the dicks of every mutha ****a who got all of a sudden a problem
with Juyo,lets start with your ****ed up ass name.

Bruh I'm hard as stone,cold as ice who gives a **** about a undercover name Freshest slice?
Slice of what? do I need to go there?
Hell yeah,that dumb ass butt hurt commit?

Mutha ****a do your butt hurt?
With a name like freshest slice,bruh the shoe fits your ass so perfect.
I told yall I love talking shit to a weak ass bullies
Now jump *****,you feeling froggy?

Man I'll roast your ass,and feed your ass to my blue nose and red nose pits.
My red nose ***** bark louder than you.
So here's a muzzle to that fill in the blanks cross word puzzle shit you be talking.


I'm still talkin' shit to you wanna be bully.
I'm not scared of you. First it was about a mutha ****a who still don't know what the **** he talking about,then Freshest Slice of a monkey's ass had to say something disrespectful then your lil crew had to **** with me,too.

Do yall get together and participate in undercover off the wall ,secret finger in each other asses
and come up with dumb ass shit to get me started?
You didn't like my poem cool,
That's all you had to say.

Yall under cover bustas just had to be disrespectful.
If I didn't know better I think all yall lil boys
are in your rooms jacking off to
each other's commits and ignorant replies.

On that note I'm done,I know when I log off
and can't log in is when you bitches start talking about me behind my back.
Why? Because you're too much of a pussy to say it when I was online.

aiight beauty shop bitches you can talk about me now juyo master34 is gone restricted.
It's been real thank you KMC!!!!!I'm out c/o 2015.........
--- --- ---
Originally posted by juyomaster34


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7hBZNsPnyg&t=1m00s

Originally posted by Zenwolf
I guess so....though the Arena thing in the Star Wars comic run had a whole room full of lightsabers, so I guess that's where my worry of them becoming common is....eh maybe I'm just over thinking it.

Ah, I haven't read all the comics so I don't know the scene in question. I can understand the worry of the comics doing it wrong.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
I guess so....though the Arena thing in the Star Wars comic run had a whole room full of lightsabers, so I guess that's where my worry of them becoming common is....eh maybe I'm just over thinking it.
Boo hoo.

Reading the Crimson Corsair and Lost Treasure of Count Dooku. Minor Spoilers for the short ebook Ahead:

Lightsaber crystals are considered an extremely rare treasure worth a fortune. It's a bunch of Saber crystals that Pirates expect is the Treasure of Count Dooku.

This is in the TFA time period though.

Same holds true in the clone wars era if anyone remembers the youngling arc.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The only non-Force Users to use lightsabers effectively were Pre Vizsla and, probably, Finn, that I know of.

There's also Ku Vrat (he used a lightsabre pike) and Sint Yoru who tried to use a lightsaber against Cade Skywalker. True Cade cut him down easily but two things:

A) Cade is an absolute duelling master

B) Sint was a professional killer. He wouldn't have used a weapon he was utterly inept with.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
In Legends it's outright stated mastery of the Force is needed to master it.

Being able to wield a weapon adequately in combat does not make one a master with said weapon.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
How does that address my point at all?


You said "Han used a lightsaber." You completely ignored the fact that all he did was cut open a dead animal's belly. That's hardly comparable to using it in actual fighting.

I could cut open a dead animal's belly with a sword. Does that mean I know how to use a sword?

No.

Oh yea, another non-force user example-

Baron Tagge, in the old Marvel comics.

He trained heavily with a lightsaber and got really good with it even, it just proved to not be enough against Luke with the force. But he still put up a good fight, even initially holding the edge against him, til Luke's force senses proved too overwhelming an advantage.

Isn't Sint the guy that was cut down immediately after he confronted Cade with a lightsaber? In a single strike?

Originally posted by chilled monkey
There's also Ku Vrat (he used a lightsabre pike) and Sint Yoru who tried to use a lightsaber against Cade Skywalker. True Cade cut him down easily but two things:

A) Cade is an absolute duelling master

B) Sint was a professional killer. He wouldn't have used a weapon he was utterly inept with.

What NewGuy said.

What the ****? I was responding to someone that said others have mastered the saber in the EU. Do you just reply without reading?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Isn't Sint the guy that was cut down immediately after he confronted Cade with a lightsaber? In a single strike?

Yeah that was him.

Like I said though he was up against Cade Skywalker, one of the best duellists of his era. Cade himself even commented "the only difference between us is skill." It wasn't that Sint was utterly useless, Cade was just vastly better than him.

Again, Sint was a professional killer. Do you really think he would have tried to use a weapon if he couldn't handle it at all?

To clarify, I'm NOT trying to claim that Sint was an expert with a lightsabre, just that he could use it in a fight.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
What the ****? I was responding to someone that said others have mastered the saber in the EU. Do you just reply without reading?

I apologise if I offended you. When I'm trying to clarify a general point (i.e. the difference between simply using a weapon and being a master/expert with it) I sometimes pick any post that seems to pertain to that point. It was not intended as any kind of slight or attack.

Originally posted by chilled monkey

I apologise if I offended you. When I'm trying to clarify a general point (i.e. the difference between simply using a weapon and being a master/expert with it) I sometimes pick any post that seems to pertain to that point. It was not intended as any kind of slight or attack. Don't apologize. Freshest deserves all kinds of hostility.

If I recall correctly, I seem to remember part of the emphasis of force-users only using light-sabers being because the blade weighs nothing, and thus a non-force-sensitive was more likely to end up cutting themselves up by trying to be fancy with the saber like a force-user. No doubt they could use it in a very reserved and conservative "style" however a force-users senses would allow them to always know where their blade was even with no weight signalling as such. Thus a reason for vibroblades and the like. A real-world equivalent also comes in the form of actual people, mostly children, who swing even sticks around and smack their own head/hands/fingers all the time, much less being asked to use a bright, flashing-when-in-rapid-motion, weightless beam of death.

Originally posted by Sinious
Don't apologize. Freshest deserves all kinds of hostility.
Would Joker defend you so vehemently if he owned you?

Originally posted by Vixas
If I recall correctly, I seem to remember part of the emphasis of force-users only using light-sabers being because the blade weighs nothing, and thus a non-force-sensitive was more likely to end up cutting themselves up by trying to be fancy with the saber like a force-user. No doubt they could use it in a very reserved and conservative "style" however a force-users senses would allow them to always know where their blade was even with no weight signalling as such. Thus a reason for vibroblades and the like. A real-world equivalent also comes in the form of actual people, mostly children, who swing even sticks around and smack their own head/hands/fingers all the time, much less being asked to use a bright, flashing-when-in-rapid-motion, weightless beam of death.


Look, speaking as someone who's used swords? The 'no weight = no feeling of where it is,' stuff is, like, pretty bunk for trained people.. That's not how you judge where your weapon is once you have a grasp of it.


See, I trained with Kung Fu weapons (which probably didn't turn me into a super badass or anything, but heck, it was *fun*), and whenever we so much as tapped ourselves with *any* weapon (wood training ones), the Master made us do 10 jump-squats. This gets you learning where your blade is and isn't really

And on the odd occasion, we'd train without weapons since it took time for everyone to get them all. And of course, at home I don't always have *room* to swing it around, or if I'm somewhere other than home and want to practice. And if I messed up, even empty handed with a phantom blade, my brain would immediately send me the 'crap, jumpsquats' signal ^^

When I started out, sure, it'd be a horrible idea to use a live lightsaber blade, but now? I could literally dual-wield lightsabers with my eyes closed and feel confident of not cutting myself while chopping stuff up left, right, and center and moving around.



Plus I read an interesting bit of neural-science. If you tell someone to point to the middle of their forearm with their eyes closed, they will of course get it right. *Unless* you've had them poking stuff with a short stick or something for awhile, in which case, they will point further up the arm, around the mid-point between the elbow and the end of the stick. The brain, interestingly enough, does start to treat tools as extensions of your body. Weird, huh?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Would Joker defend you so vehemently if he owned you? Your assault on my sex slave's psychology is only a small portion of your sins, Freshest. I'm just trying to protect the World from your evil deeds.

I make the world a better place because I do what others either cannot or are not will to do.