Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-assures-atheists-you-don-t-have-to-believe-in-god-to-go-to-heaven-8810062.html

I love this guy.

It's a nice notion and it sounds like the core of his message is that it doesn't matter what you believe, but rather what kind of person you are. Though I would ask him if that is the case why the first 3 commandments have to do with how you need to believe specifically in God?

I would wonder how people like Star feel about this. Since I know religious people who would find what the pope just said to more or less be blasphemy.

Originally posted by Surtur
It's a nice notion and it sounds like the core of his message is that it doesn't matter what you believe, but rather what kind of person you are. Though I would ask him if that is the case why the first 3 commandments have to do with how you need to believe specifically in God?

I would wonder how people like Star feel about this. Since I know religious people who would find what the pope just said to more or less be blasphemy.


It's no secret the Pope is a false prophet and a leading figure in the ecumenical movement. The Bible clearly says that salvation is a GIFT of God, NOT of WORKS, lest any man should boast.

I thought the pope was supposed to be infallible or something?

Originally posted by Surtur
I thought the pope was supposed to be infallible or something?

To Catholics, he is the Vicar of Christ.

The current pope is wisdom came to flesh.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
To Catholics, he is the Vicar of Christ.

So then to you who is the true pope? By this I mean which person currently alive today do you think embodies what you think the pope should embody?

If Christ isn't the way to salvation, the Pope should just disband the Catholic church. What is the point of worshipping Christ if you can find salvation outside His Word. No reason to congregate, you can seek your own path.

Originally posted by Surtur
So then to you who is the true pope? By this I mean which person currently alive today do you think embodies what you think the pope should embody?

I'm not Catholic, so I can't answer that. I follow Christ.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
It's no secret the Pope is a false prophet and a leading figure in the ecumenical movement. The Bible clearly says that salvation is a GIFT of God, NOT of WORKS, lest any man should boast.


Agree 100%.

Since the pope is a false prophet nothing he says holds any more weight then his own hot air.

Wouldn't he make a better Anti-Christ then Obama?

Originally posted by Surtur
Wouldn't he make a better Anti-Christ then Obama?


Neither one. The Antichrist will eventually accept worship from people. I doubt people would view the pope in that light.

The pope is one of satans minions.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
It's no secret the Pope is a false prophet and a leading figure in the ecumenical movement. The Bible clearly says that salvation is a GIFT of God, NOT of WORKS, lest any man should boast.


Jesus was kinda really really clear on the need to help others:




Sure, other pieces of the Bible emphasize other parts, but I'm of the opinion that Jesus kinda trumps other Biblical speakers.

Quoting scripture and you don't even believe in him

Originally posted by Q99
Jesus was kinda really really clear on the need to help others:




Sure, other pieces of the Bible emphasize other parts, but I'm of the opinion that Jesus kinda trumps other Biblical speakers.

Jesus also said, No man cometh to the Father but by me.

Jesus does want us to help others, but He was clear concernung the plan of salvation also.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Jesus also said, No man cometh to the Father but by me.

Jesus does want us to help others, but He was clear concernung the plan of salvation also.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Jesus also said, No man cometh to the Father but by me.

Jesus does want us to help others, but He was clear concernung the plan of salvation also.

But what is exactly "going to the Father through Jesus"?

Whether atheists can go to Heaven is part of a bigger debate, which is "can people who never heard of Christ be saved"? Depending to your response to that questions, some kinds of atheist would or wouldn't belong to a list of potential candidates to salvation.

God is the one who decides which people get saved though, this discussion can only assume to "limit the choices" so much.

Jesus (a man) says one thing, and his pope (a man) says another. It's almost like the whole things is human-contrived hogwash.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
If Christ isn't the way to salvation, the Pope should just disband the Catholic church. What is the point of worshipping Christ if you can find salvation outside His Word. No reason to congregate, you can seek your own path.

Probably what Jesus intended, each person to find his/her own path to God. In the end, does it really matter if you find God in a church compared to a pasture?

As far as the topic, this Pope is a very welcome change to previous Popes.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Jesus (a man) says one thing, and his pope (a man) says another. It's almost like the whole things is human-contrived hogwash.

But..but Jesus was magic.

Originally posted by Robtard
Probably what Jesus intended, each person to find his/her own path to God. In the end, does it really matter if you find God in a church compared to a pasture?

As far as the topic, this Pope is a very welcome change to previous Popes.

If you humbly seek the Lord, you can find Him anywhere. The Lord does instruct us to attend church, however. Jesus said, I will build my church and that gates of hell shall not prevail against it. The Bible also instructs us to "Not forsake the assembling of ourselves together." Many other passages support it as well.

Originally posted by Robtard
Probably what Jesus intended, each person to find his/her own path to God. In the end, does it really matter if you find God in a church compared to a pasture?

As far as the topic, this Pope is a very welcome change to previous Popes. My path to God is the wholesale slaughter of innocents.

Originally posted by Mindset
My path to God is the wholesale slaughter of innocents.


Listening to too much Cannibal Corpse lol

Originally posted by Mindset
My path to God is the wholesale slaughter of innocents.

Didn't know you were a Muslim

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
To Catholics, he is the Vicar of Christ.

The Pope is only considered to be infallible when making statements ex cathedra, literally from the chair. There have only been two such pronouncements in history.

Originally posted by Lucius
The Pope is only considered to be infallible when making statements ex cathedra, literally from the chair. There have only been two such pronouncements in history.

Why I said to Catholics. Besides God, only the Bible is infallible.

Rob killed the pope and skin swapped him, thats why he's so liberal.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Rob killed the pope and skin swapped him, thats why he's so liberal.

Nah, he's just a very decent Pope compared to the last two. It's no coincidence he's also South American

Cheap labor baby!

Pope seems like a much needed improvement over previous ones. Sure, I don't agree with everything he says, but he's more positive than negative.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Cheap labor baby!

I think you're confusing Mexico with South America

Originally posted by -Pr-
Pope seems like a much needed improvement over previous ones. Sure, I don't agree with everything he says, but he's more positive than negative.

Exactly

Originally posted by -Pr-
Pope seems like a much needed improvement over previous ones. Sure, I don't agree with everything he says, but he's more positive than negative.

Originally posted by Robtard
I think you're confusing Mexico with South America

Free labor, baby!

Originally posted by Surtur
But..but Jesus was magic. Sang by Jesus on the cross:


_R4qb6_RPUc

Why are some of you opposed to the idea of an atheist joining you in Heaven?

Because these people vehemently hold onto the need of having someone to look down upon to make themselves feel better.

Jesus would be pretty ashamed tbh

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Because these people vehemently hold onto the need of having someone to look down upon to make themselves feel better.

Jesus would be pretty ashamed tbh

Jesus would be ashamed, huh? What does Jesus say about salvation? You can't choose which scriptures you like and ignore the one's you don't.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Why are some of you opposed to the idea of an atheist joining you in Heaven?


It amazes me how few have read the Bible.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Jesus would be ashamed, huh? What does Jesus say about salvation? You can't choose which scriptures you like and ignore the one's you don't.



You should pretty much just laugh and ignore everything FA says Christian-related. He just loves to troll Christians in religious threads and try to get them riled-up.

It's all part of his atheist scheme to incite another Crusade to get all the Christians into the Holy Land and get them killed by his Muslim allies.


The sick f*ck.

Originally posted by Star428
You should pretty much just laugh and ignore everything FA says Christian-related. He just loves to troll Christians in religious threads and try to get them riled-up.

Yeah you should listen to Star, he's an expert on trolling.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Jesus would be ashamed, huh? What does Jesus say about salvation? You can't choose which scriptures you like and ignore the one's you don't.

Jesus died for the sins of all, for he loves all good men and women. His sacrifice was to save all mankind from their sins, not just his followers. The Native Americans had to wait a thousand and a half years to hear the word of Christ, are you telling me all the good-willed people that lived and died during that wait went to hell for the crime of not knowing the word of God?

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Jesus also said, No man cometh to the Father but by me.

Jesus does want us to help others, but He was clear concernung the plan of salvation also.

That could be interpreted as, 'Worshipping me gets you into heaven even if you don't do what I say,' but that's hardly the only interpretation.

Another way to read it is, "Doing what *I* say will get you into heaven, will get you into heaven. Doing other than that won't."


Considering elsewhere he talked about doing this or that as getting one into heaven or not, there's a lot of support from Jesus's words for the latter. The one line does not exist in a vacuum.

Originally posted by Mindset
My path to God is the wholesale slaughter of innocents.

In other words you take after Samson...

vVCrt2GBlLc

He loves killing. But..he loves God too so..bonus?

Be warned though anyone who watches that clip..about 60 seconds in Samson goes on a murder spree. Yes most of those people were innocent, but..he loves God so

Also holy shit Deliliah looks legitimately retarded.

More like a man in drag.

The Bible is f*cked up.

Yep

Originally posted by Surtur
... Samson...

vVCrt2GBlLc

Deliliah looks legitimately retarded.




I take it you did NOT actually watch the clip you posted for our viewing?

That wasn't Delilah.

Samson was betrothed to a woman, as your cartoon shows, that the Philistines murdered, along with her father, in retribution for Samson destroying the Philistines' crops with that "firefoxes" stunt.

Samson doesn't meet Delilah until about 20 years later.


The episode you presented derives from Judges 15.


------------------


3 And Samson said concerning them, Now shall I be more blameless than the Philistines, though I do them a displeasure. 4 And Samson went and caught three hundred foxes, and took firebrands, and turned tail to tail, and put a firebrand in the midst between two tails. 5 And when he had set the brands on fire, he let them go into the standing corn of the Philistines, and burnt up both the shocks, and also the standing corn, with the vineyards and olives.

6 Then the Philistines said, Who hath done this? And they answered, Samson, the son in law of the Timnite, because he had taken his wife, and given her to his companion. And the Philistines came up, and burnt her and her father with fire.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Judges%2015&version=AKJV

This thread reminds me of the episode of Family Guy where Peter's father argues with the Pope.

Looks like Star won't be able to put me on ignore in heaven.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Looks like Star won't be able to put me on ignore in heaven.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Pope Francis: "Athiests can go to Heaven"

Atheists are capable of a higher morality than Christians because Christians do right because of fear of punishment and hope of reward. Doing right because it is right is more admirable. I don't know why more people can't understand that.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Jesus died for the sins of all, for he loves all good men and women. His sacrifice was to save all mankind from their sins, not just his followers. The Native Americans had to wait a thousand and a half years to hear the word of Christ, are you telling me all the good-willed people that lived and died during that wait went to hell for the crime of not knowing the word of God?

This. Silly dogma.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Atheists are capable of a higher morality than Christians because Christians do right because of fear of punishment and hope of reward. Doing right because it is right is more admirable. I don't know why more people can't understand that.


Almost sounds like you're implying people shouldn't live their lives based on some kind of magical retribution that might come from a super powered being.

Originally posted by Surtur
Almost sounds like you're implying people shouldn't live their lives based on some kind of magical retribution that might come from a super powered being.

Crazy notion, isn't it?

I get my moral judgement from the commandment of love other people, and that's consistent with my observations of the world as the motivation of moral judgement.

I don't think I'm morally a shittier person than you just because I'm Christian. I know plenty of Christians that are good human beings because they believe it's the right thing to do, not because they spend their time worrying about whether or not they'll go to hell. I've meant plenty of pompous arrogant Christians, plenty of loving Christians, plenty of vitriolic self aggrandizing atheists, and plenty of atheists who are amazing human beings.

This...

Though it needs to be pointed out the Pope is not God, has never spoken to God, and thus truly has no say in who does or does not get into heaven lol.

To claim you personally know the way an all powerful deity behaves seems the height of arrogance, especially since it's not like every Pope has been all "atheists can totally get in".

We are told it's a sin not to worship God, and since an atheist sure as hell isn't going to be going to confession this means you can sin and not repent and still get into heaven. Which if you can break one commandment and get in, why shouldn't you be able to break others, not repent, and get in? It makes it hard to take "God" and his rules seriously.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I get my moral judgement from the commandment of love other people, and that's consistent with my observations of the world as the motivation of moral judgement.

I don't think I'm morally a shittier person than you just because I'm Christian. I know plenty of Christians that are good human beings because they believe it's the right thing to do, not because they spend their time worrying about whether or not they'll go to hell. I've meant plenty of pompous arrogant Christians, plenty of loving Christians, plenty of vitriolic self aggrandizing atheists, and plenty of atheists who are amazing human beings. How do you feel about the fact that the religion you claim to follow states that the amazing atheists you mentioned are barred from Heaven?

Originally posted by Surtur
Though it needs to be pointed out the Pope is not God, has never spoken to God, and thus truly has no say in who does or does not get into heaven lol.

To claim you personally know the way an all powerful deity behaves seems the height of arrogance, especially since it's not like every Pope has been all "atheists can totally get in".

We are told it's a sin not to worship God, and since an atheist sure as hell isn't going to be going to confession this means you can sin and not repent and still get into heaven. Which if you can break one commandment and get in, why shouldn't you be able to break others, not repent, and get in? It makes it hard to take "God" and his rules seriously. Dont understand this part.

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Dont understand this part.

It is simple. At the end of the day it is God who decides who can or can't get into heaven. The Pope has never actually had any contact with an omnipotent deity, so he's basically just guessing that God would be okay with atheists.

I have no doubt he will certainly claim God has spoken to him, but then don't they all?

Originally posted by Surtur
The Pope has never actually had any contact with an omnipotent deity...

You don't believe that God speaks through the Pope?

F#cking heathen.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
You don't believe that God speaks through the Pope?

F#cking heathen.

If he does then God is obviously bi-polar giving the wildly varying messages he has apparently given Popes over the years.

Originally posted by Surtur
If he does then God is obviously bi-polar giving the wildly varying messages he has apparently given Popes over the years.

Yeah. This one is perhaps a bit more divinely inspired than others.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Yeah. This one is perhaps a bit more divinely inspired than others.

Which honestly I am disturbed by any super powered being with a mental illness, especially supposedly all powerful ones. Especially when this thing apparently is in charge of the afterlife lol.

So "heaven" is run by a crazy person.

Eh, belief in an all-loving, all-knowing, all-powerful God could bring one to the perspective of Christian Universalism, ie. the belief that everyone gets redeemed and gets into heaven, which is what I am.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Eh, belief in an all-loving, all-knowing, all-powerful God could bring one to the perspective of Christian Universalism, ie. the belief that everyone gets redeemed and gets into heaven, which is what I am.

I understand, but if everyone gets redeemed then it really doesn't matter how badly one behaves during their life.

IMO it's a screwed up universe that has it so Hitler can get into heaven.

Originally posted by Surtur
I understand, but if everyone gets redeemed then it really doesn't matter how badly one behaves during their life.

IMO it's a screwed up universe that has it so Hitler can get into heaven.
My personal belief is that we live in an imperfect world to have the opportunity to self-define ourselves, and that once we die we experience a perfect understanding of our lives and an emphatic experience of the impacts our lives have had on the world. This understanding causes people to experience through a form of empathy the negative impacts of their consequences, which I believe is a perfectly proportionate punishment for evil, and this experience also allows people to learn to move beyond their remaining flaws and reach a state of perfect existence in Heaven.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
My personal belief is that we live in an imperfect world to have the opportunity to self-define ourselves, and that once we die we experience a perfect understanding of our lives and an emphatic experience of the impacts our lives have had on the world. This understanding causes people to experience through a form of empathy the negative impacts of their consequences, which I believe is a perfectly proportionate punishment for evil, and this experience also allows people to learn to move beyond their remaining flaws and reach a state of perfect existence in Heaven.

It more or less sounds like you are saying evil people are meant to feel bad about their choices for a bit before being allowed into paradise for all of eternity..

Originally posted by Surtur
It more or less sounds like you are saying evil people are meant to feel bad about their choices for a bit before being allowed into paradise for all of eternity..
They suffer for being evil then stop being evil then get let into paradise for all of eternity is what I'm saying.

Everyone deserves the opportunity to move beyond their inner demons.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
They suffer for being evil then stop being evil then get let into paradise for all of eternity is what I'm saying.

You assume that by attaining a greater understanding that suddenly these people would change their ways.

Originally posted by Surtur
You assume that by attaining a greater understanding that suddenly these people would change their ways.
Empathy is a rather transformative thing and I'm talking about empathy on a level we can't even truly comprehend.

If they don't change their ways though, they'll be essentially stuck in that state I suppose, and though theoretically someone could refuse to change forever, with that much of an understanding and empathy and an extended hand of forgiveness and love, in a practical sense I think everyone would eventually make that choice.

^ But how does this make up for what they did to people while they were alive?
Attaining enlightenment after the fact seems pretty weak to me. Especially in the case of mass murderers and the like

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Empathy is a rather transformative thing and I'm talking about empathy on a level we can't even truly comprehend.

If they don't change their ways though, they'll be essentially stuck in that state I suppose, and though theoretically someone could refuse to change forever, with that much of an understanding and empathy and an extended hand of forgiveness and love, in a practical sense I think everyone would eventually make that choice.

Does this not in a way sound like mentally torturing them until they come around to your way of thinking?

You sound like you're describing Ghost Riders "Penance Stare".

Originally posted by socool8520
^ But how does this make up for what they did to people while they were alive?
Attaining enlightenment after the fact seems pretty weak to me. Especially in the case of mass murderers and the like
Suffering in the physical universe is only finite and temporary, why should the punishment and rehabilitation for causing that be any different?

Vengeance and justice are not the same thing.

Originally posted by Surtur
Does this not in a way sound like mentally torturing them until they come around to your way of thinking?

You sound like you're describing Ghost Riders "Penance Stare".
Evil is self-destructive, it's essentially people causing their own emotional suffering, while also having the understanding that their choices are the cause of their own emotional suffering. Why would a person choose to remain evil in that state when being offered forgiveness, love, and transcendence? What amounts to petty stubborness won't last for an eternity.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Suffering in the physical universe is only finite and temporary, why should the punishment and rehabilitation for causing that be any different?

Vengeance and justice are not the same thing.

This offers zero incentive to lead a righteous life. At all. You can be a terrible person, watch your play by play, realize you were a d-bag, and then be forgiven. Sounds extremely unfair in the physical.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Evil is self-destructive, it's essentially people causing their own emotional suffering, while also having the understanding that their choices are the cause of their own emotional suffering. Why would a person choose to remain evil in that state when being offered forgiveness, love, and transcendence? What amounts to petty stubborness won't last for an eternity.

But don't you agree that what you're describing sounds a lot like the "Penance Stare"? If you do not know what that is..it is a power that makes the person feel all the suffering they have caused to anyone they have victimized.

Originally posted by socool8520
This offers zero incentive to lead a righteous life. At all. You can be a terrible person, watch your play by play, realize you were a d-bag, and then be forgiven. Sounds extremely unfair in the physical.
You don't "watch" your play by play. You come to an understanding so emphatic that you feel the impacts of your actions, which seems like the most proportionate punishment I can think of for any action.

So in that instance, there would be punishment, but not eternal punishment, and a punishment that is rehabilitative and restorative.

Do you think it would be more just if the punishment was eternal or if the punishment existed without the rehabilitation aspect?

Originally posted by Surtur
But don't you agree that what you're describing sounds a lot like the "Penance Stare"? If you do not know what that is..it is a power that makes the person feel all the suffering they have caused to anyone they have victimized.
Yeah I'd agree that it sounds like that, though what I'm describing is more of a rehabilitation and restoration than an act of destruction.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
You don't "watch" your play by play. You come to an understanding so emphatic that you feel the impacts of your actions, which seems like the most proportionate punishment I can think of for any action.

So in that instance, there would be punishment, but not eternal punishment, and a punishment that is rehabilitative and restorative.

Do you think it would be more just if the punishment was eternal or if the punishment existed without the rehabilitation aspect?

In this scenario, I think the entrance into a heaven afterwards is a no-go. Some have affected far too many innocent people for them to get a pass, even if they learned their lesson after the fact.

Me personally though, I think that the allowance of people to suffer as a way of defining one's self is terrible. I feel like that is sadistic and pointless. Why create life to simply watch it suffer?

Originally posted by socool8520
In this scenario, I think the entrance into a heaven afterwards is a no-go. Some have affected far too many innocent people for them to get a pass, even if they learned their lesson after the fact.
That's where we differ then. I believe everyone deserves redemption.

Originally posted by socool8520
Me personally though, I think that the allowance of people to suffer as a way of defining one's self is terrible. I feel like that is sadistic and pointless. Why create life to simply watch it suffer?
If we were created in a perfect complete state of existence, essentially already at the final end, we wouldn't be defined through our own choices. The fact that we are created in an imperfect state in an imperfect world allows us to define the path we take to that final end. It allows us the opportunity to do good not because we had to but because we chose to, it allows us to impact other people's lives so we can have the opportunity to experience such opportunity, so we can progress and overcome challenges as a species through our choices and helping of one another. The limited degree of suffering we experience over this limited amount of time would be nothing compared to the infinite degree of love/happiness/connection that would be experienced in heaven over an infinite stretch of time, yet because of that limited imperfection that is proportionately nothing in the grand scheme of things, we would have a state of being that is partially self-defined.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
That's where we differ then. I believe everyone deserves redemption.


If we were created in a perfect complete state of existence, essentially already at the final end, we wouldn't be defined through our own choices. The fact that we are created in an imperfect state in an imperfect world allows us to define the path we take to that final end. It allows us the opportunity to do good not because we had to but because we chose to, it allows us to impact other people's lives so we can have the opportunity to experience such opportunity, so we can progress and overcome challenges as a species through our choices and helping of one another. The limited degree of suffering we experience over this limited amount of time would be nothing compared to the infinite degree of love/happiness/connection that would be experienced in heaven over an infinite stretch of time, yet because of that limited imperfection that is proportionately nothing in the grand scheme of things, we would have a state of being that is partially self-defined.

I'm sorry but I just cannot agree with your position when seeing the actual suffering of others. How is being tortured self defining? Abused? What is the purpose of children starving to death or being made child soldiers/slaves? Why do others have to deal with being victims of sex trafficking or extreme violence while others only have to deal with afternoon traffic and the occasional loss of a family member? How's is this okay, even if only for a relatively short period of time? And then you're saying, that it doesn't really matter in the end because someone will feel your pain at some point, but then because he/she is remorseful, they will ultimately get the same prize as you. That doesn't sit well with me.

Originally posted by socool8520
I'm sorry but I just cannot agree with your position when seeing the actual suffering of others. How is being tortured self defining? Abused? What is the purpose of children starving to death or being made child soldiers/slaves? Why do others have to deal with being victims of sex trafficking or extreme violence while others only have to deal with afternoon traffic and the occasional loss of a family member? How's is this okay, even if only for a relatively short period of time? And then you're saying, that it doesn't really matter in the end because someone will feel your pain at some point, but then because he/she is remorseful, they will ultimately get the same prize as you. That doesn't sit well with me.
I can understand if you hold that point of view, and I can't make you agree with me and don't feel a compulsion to make you agree with me. I'm merely defending why I hold the beliefs that I hold.

But what I described as an imperfect world and state of existence being in effect so that we have a greater state of existence and the room for improvement to self define our own improvement. You asking me why suffering exists in an imperfect world is basically you asking me why an imperfect world is imperfect, and my response to that is if we were created perfect in a perfect world we'd have no opportunity for self-definition.

I believe the suffering we experience in this life is justified in the end not because somebody else suffers for what they've done to you, but because you ultimately reach an eternal state of perfect existence in heaven, and because the imperfect state we were born into allowed us each to self-define ourselves and reach that perfect state possessing individuality, something we wouldn't have had if we were initially created conformed to a perfect world.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Eh, belief in an all-loving, all-knowing, all-powerful God could bring one to the perspective of Christian Universalism, ie. the belief that everyone gets redeemed and gets into heaven, which is what I am. Ah all right, so you're a fake Christian. That's cool. Though frankly delusional IMHO, your kind are more likable than real Christians at least.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Ah all right, so you're a fake Christian. That's cool. Though frankly delusional IMHO, your kind are more likable than real Christians at least.
"Fake-Christian" isn't exactly the right term. I believe in the teachings and divinity of Jesus, I view God as the Holy Trinity, and I am a believer in the core values of Christianity. The Bible has some verses that suggest universal reconciliation and others that suggest punishment, so I wouldn't say not believing in humans being punished with Hell makes me a fake Christian, though it's worth noting Hell wasn't originally a part in the Bible and was worked in through translations of other words.

There are various sects of Christianity which hold opposing beliefs, and since my belief about Hell isn't the norm in this time period, I'd say it's more accurate to call me a non-Orthodox Christian. Calling me a fake Christian implies there is something ungenuine about my nature when my religious beliefs have played a significant role in shaping who I am.

Hes the friggin pope

He's not perfect and I don't agree with everything he says, but Pope Francis is not only turning out to be an improvement over the last two popes, but a ridiculously vast improvement.

The Catholic Church was smart to elect him, they were hurting with their archaic views.

Originally posted by Robtard
He's not perfect and I don't agree with everything he says, but Pope Francis is not only turning out to be an improvement over the last two popes, but a ridiculously vast improvement.

The Catholic Church was smart to elect him, they were hurting with their archaic views.
Oh yeah, Pope Francis puts a proper emphasis on what Christianity should be, teaching people to love and steering away from arrogant self-righteousness and judgement.

that the pope can do whatever he wants /sarcasm

Originally posted by Emperordmb
and steering away from arrogant self-righteousness and judgement.

It is interesting though that there is not merely a small percentage of Christians who behave like this, yet I would wager if you pulled any of them aside and asked them if they love Jesus they would say "yes".

Yet Jesus(the one from the bible) would no doubt find a decent portion of their behavior more or less horrifying.

Originally posted by Surtur
It is interesting though that there is not merely a small percentage of Christians who behave like this, yet I would wager if you pulled any of them aside and asked them if they love Jesus they would say "yes".

Yet Jesus(the one from the bible) would no doubt find a decent portion of their behavior more or less horrifying.
The humble loving types are hardly a small portion either, but yes I admit that the arrogant types are much more common than I'm comfortable with. Every time I see a Christian being a douche it emotionally ****s with me on a visceral level, because it gives people another reason to hate Christians, and degrades a very important part of who I am as a person in the eyes of others.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
The humble loving types are hardly a small portion either, but yes I admit that the arrogant types are much more common than I'm comfortable with. Every time I see a Christian being a douche it emotionally ****s with me on a visceral level, because it gives people another reason to hate Christians, and degrades a very important part of who I am as a person in the eyes of others.

Meh....I don't worry about it. Atheists haven't been known to be super nice about their beliefs, or lack thereof either. There have been times that I have been more arrogant than I would have liked in religious debates and I apologize. When in a debate as emotionally charged as Religion, it's hard to tone it down sometimes.