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I have three questions for you. Who are the top 5 martial artists in marvel and who are the top five martial artists in dc?

This is excluding robots, aliens, and people from the future (I'm looking at you karate kid).

Second question, what is your ranking of these characters if you were to put the lists together?

Finally, in a battle royal with all 10 of these characters, while not using weapons, armor, or superpowers outside of what their martial abilities gives them, who would be the last one standing?

In DC:

1. Karate Kid (Pre-Crisis, Zero Hour, and 3boot in THAT order)
2. Sa'ar the Ageless one (Owned Martian Manhunter)
3. Jin Si
4. Sensei (The one that took down Batman)
5. Cassandra Cain (Owned Grayson)

Just saw the KK rule.

1. Sa'ar the Ageless One
2. Sensei
3. Jin-Si
4. I-Ching
5. Cassandra Cain
6. Lady Shiva
7. Richard Dragon
8. Bronze Tiger
9. Constantine Drakon
10. Batman

In no particular order :

DC :

- Sensei
- Batman
- Lady Shiva
- Cassandra Cain
- Richard Dragon

Marvel :

- Mantis
- Iron Fist
- Taskmaster
- Ogun
- Wolverine

I could add Captain America and a few others.

Originally posted by Zack M
Just saw the KK rule.

1. Sa'ar the Ageless One
2. Sensei
3. Jin-Si
4. I-Ching
5. Cassandra Cain
6. Lady Shiva
7. Richard Dragon
8. Bronze Tiger
9. Constantine Drakon
10. Batman not a bad list. What's your marvel list look like?Originally posted by RealityWarper
In no particular order :

DC :

- Sensei
- Batman
- Lady Shiva
- Cassandra Cain
- Richard Dragon

Marvel :

- Mantis
- Iron Fist
- Taskmaster
- Ogun
- Wolverine

I could add Captain America and a few others. not bad either, but isn't mantis an alien?

Originally posted by deathslash
not a bad list. What's your marvel list look like? not bad either, but isn't mantis an alien?

Yep. ^^

I forgot it at the moment I typed.

Mantis is Vietnamese and German, now i dont know her immigration status but i dont think that we should deport her from the thread and call her an alien. Economic refugee is the politically correct term.

Also Danny would fist her.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Mantis is Vietnamese and German, now i dont know her immigration status but i dont think that we should deport her from the thread and call her an alien. Economic refugee is the politically correct term.

Also Danny would fist her.

Ah yeah true but she is a cotati too IIRC.

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Ah yeah true but she is a cotati too IIRC. she gave birth to one, but both her parents are human

Alright. I guess I was confusing her with moondragon.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
she gave birth to one, but both her parents are human
Okey.

Danny is the top 5 for both companies.

Marvels would be

Iron Fist
Prince of Orphans
Bride of 9 Spiders
Fat Cobra
(Peak) Kingpin

What, no Black Panther?

Originally posted by Vanguard
What, no Black Panther? No

What about shang chi and elektra?

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Marvels would be

Iron Fist
Prince of Orphans
Bride of 9 Spiders
Fat Cobra
(Peak) Kingpin

Fat cobra above wolverine??

Originally posted by deathslash
I have three questions for you. Who are the top 5 martial artists in marvel and who are the top five martial artists in dc?

This is excluding robots, aliens, and people from the future (I'm looking at you karate kid).

Second question, what is your ranking of these characters if you were to put the lists together?

Finally, in a battle royal with all 10 of these characters, while not using weapons, armor, or superpowers outside of what their martial abilities gives them, who would be the last one standing?

As for the last one standing, I'd say Sa'ar would win. Not only did he own Shiva, but MM as well.

Originally posted by Zack M
As for the last one standing, I'd say Sa'ar would win. Not only did he own Shiva, but MM as well. scans please.

Originally posted by Mindset
No

bullshit

Originally posted by deathslash
scans please.

It was in an issue of Justice League Task force. Don't have the scans anymore. He only appeared in an issue and died at the end

Originally posted by RealityWarper
Ah yeah true but she is a cotati too IIRC. Has anyone ever defeated Mantis in jand to hand?

I mean HAND to hand.

I forgot guys like Midnighter and Prometheus. They should be in the top 10 list at least .

Originally posted by Zack M
It was in an issue of Justice League Task force. Don't have the scans anymore. He only appeared in an issue and died at the end how'd he die?Originally posted by Zack M
I forgot guys like Midnighter and Prometheus. They should be in the top 10 list at least . isn't midnighter that good because of his computer and his superhuman physique?

Originally posted by lawest9
Has anyone ever defeated Mantis in jand to hand? not that I can recall

Originally posted by deathslash
how'd he die? isn't midnighter that good because of his computer and his superhuman physique? Yes

Marvel:

1.Daredevil
2.Daredevil
3.Daredevil
4.Daredevil
5.Daredevil

DC:
See above

Free-for-all:
See above.

Do you mean Civil war era Daredevil?

If so , Danny > Matt

What about Moondragon she is originally from earth and a very skilled fighter.

Originally posted by deathslash
how'd he die? isn't midnighter that good because of his computer and his superhuman physique?

According to Prometheus, Midnighter is top 30 at least.



http://i68.tinypic.com/52ap04.jpg

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Do you mean Civil war era Daredevil?

If so , Danny > Matt

Batman>>>Daredevil, too. I doubt Daredevil can stalemate Karate Kid.

Yah, but Midnighter has enhancements. He's not just a human who fights well.

You crazy kids. Anyway, Matt Murdock for No.1.

Originally posted by Zack M
Batman>>>Daredevil, too. I doubt Daredevil can stalemate Karate Kid.

When did Batman stalemate KK? The only encounter between them I can recall had an amnesiac KK get super-punched by Batman, and then proceed to casually remove Batman's belt mid-fight. Granted it's been a long time since I even glanced at that fight, so am I misremembering something?

Originally posted by VanMae
When did Batman stalemate KK? The only encounter between them I can recall had an amnesiac KK get super-punched by Batman, and then proceed to casually remove Batman's belt mid-fight. Granted it's been a long time since I even glanced at that fight, so am I misremembering something? you're not. He removed his belt, tore through half of his mask, and gave him a hernia in his left leg. Batman only survived because black lightning cheapshotted kk.Originally posted by Zack M
Batman>>>Daredevil, too. I doubt Daredevil can stalemate Karate Kid. one high showing doesn't mean that he's above him.

Originally posted by lawest9
Has anyone ever defeated Mantis in jand to hand?

Originally posted by golem370
What about Moondragon she is originally from earth and a very skilled fighter.

Moondragon defeated Mantis hand to hand fairly comprehensively.

Champion of the Universe got her helpless in some immobilizing grip.

Dr. Strange was sort of very briefly stalemating her and Black Panther H2H, and she was surprised he was able to dodge her attack.

Her father (Libra from Zodiac) sort of immobilized her once, not really a fight.

Wonder Man, after being paralyzed by one of her hits, managed to surprise her and get her in an immobilizing grip. Again, not actually a fight.

Originally posted by VanMae
When did Batman stalemate KK? The only encounter between them I can recall had an amnesiac KK get super-punched by Batman, and then proceed to casually remove Batman's belt mid-fight. Granted it's been a long time since I even glanced at that fight, so am I misremembering something?
Yes, a lot of the fight.

Batman was on the losing end but he gave as good as he took.

Being on the losing end doesn't mean stalemating....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Being on the losing end doesn't mean stalemating....
Of course it does. The fight wasn't finished.

It's not like Val didn't take hits or no sold them.

So in football (for you Yanks, soccer), if a team is beating another team 2-1, it's stalemating - because 90 minutes are not up?

If India are beating Australia 450-3 on day 3 of the cricket, I mean, it's not as if Australia haven't gotten some wickets, and it's only day 3....they're stalemating India?

Thor stalemated Hulk in h2h (for you Yanks, Strengthpool)


Batman did actually stalemate a different KK in Legion of 34 Wirlds though

Was there any context behind that fight?

http://i.imgur.com/vBl2c.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/97okt.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DwPog.jpg

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Thor stalemated Hulk in h2h (for you Yanks, Strengthpool)


Batman did actually stalemate a different KK in Legion of 34 Wirlds though I'd go back to watching UFC if they changed their name to that

Originally posted by deathslash
Was there any context behind that fight? Nope.

Bruce and Val have fought a few times in preboot continuity.

The first time was in Brave and the Bold #5:
http://i.imgur.com/iM3egth.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cb4HqmV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0zQ2Ifg.jpg

The battle was a stalemate for the most part before it was interrupted.


Soon afterward they fought again in JLA #8(The Lightning Saga):
http://i.imgur.com/WwyVRGg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ud2Axt8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/75fkIRI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KBjAroN.jpg

This time we learned that Clark had ranked KK as a class 15 fighter(for a point of comparison, Batman was ranked as a class 12.) Additionally, KK appeared to have a decisive edge this time(despite the multiple cutscenes), and was only stopped when Black Lightning suckered him from behind.


Countdown #50 retold the above battle--this time without the cutscenes:
http://i.imgur.com/ZGjZ5p2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xTSBD2A.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/159WdXO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LFoz78c.jpg

Bruce performed admirably, but KK was still shown to have the clear advantage. In fact, after the battle Bruce said that Clark got it wrong: KK should be a class 25 fighter, not a class 15. Lol.


*Even though these fights occurred the same year(2007), the issue of BatB was set before The Lightning Saga:
http://i.imgur.com/7X8eEUI.jpg


Anywho, Bruce is absolutely skilled enough to give Val the fight of his life, but in a neutral, featureless environment, Val has the advantage.

I thought he was amnesiac in the second fight with batman.

He had a telepathic fail-safe in place that initially prevented him from remembering his identity, but as Batman noted, that definitely didn't hinder his fighting skill.

Originally posted by Galan007
He had a telepathic fail-safe in place that initially prevented him from remembering his identity, but as Batman noted, that definitely didn't hinder his fighting skill. thanks. Also, in the first fight, couldn't batman holding his own partially be because they were fighting in the air (so val couldn't really move at the speed that he fights on the ground)?

It's possible, but Val specifically noted that he was experienced in 'anti-grav' MA:
http://s23.postimg.org/6ysmtmf63/cb4_Hqm_V.jpg

So he really shouldn't have been at a disadvantage.

Originally posted by Mindset
Danny is the top 5 for both companies.

Originally posted by Galan007
Bruce performed admirably, but KK was still shown to have the clear advantage. In fact, after the battle Bruce said that Clark got it wrong: KK should be a class 25 fighter, not a class 15. Lol.

Scan?

Sorry, it was a typo. Black Lightning said that, not Bruce.

Originally posted by Galan007
Nope.

Bruce and Val have fought a few times in preboot continuity.

The first time was in Brave and the Bold #5:
http://i.imgur.com/iM3egth.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cb4HqmV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0zQ2Ifg.jpg

The battle was a stalemate for the most part before it was interrupted.


Soon afterward they fought again in JLA #8(The Lightning Saga):
http://i.imgur.com/WwyVRGg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ud2Axt8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/75fkIRI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KBjAroN.jpg

This time we learned that Clark had ranked KK as a class 15 fighter(for a point of comparison, Batman was ranked as a class 12.) Additionally, KK appeared to have a decisive edge this time(despite the multiple cutscenes), and was only stopped when Black Lightning suckered him from behind.


Countdown #50 retold the above battle--this time without the cutscenes:
http://i.imgur.com/ZGjZ5p2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xTSBD2A.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/159WdXO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LFoz78c.jpg

Bruce performed admirably, but KK was still shown to have the clear advantage. In fact, after the battle Bruce said that Clark got it wrong: KK should be a class 25 fighter, not a class 15. Lol.


*Even though these fights occurred the same year(2007), the issue of BatB was set before The Lightning Saga:
http://i.imgur.com/7X8eEUI.jpg


Anywho, Bruce is absolutely skilled enough to give Val the fight of his life, but in a neutral, featureless environment, Val has the advantage.

It looks to me like it's Lightning saying he's a 25, not Batman.

Edit: Beat me to it.

See my above post.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Scan? It was African Heatflash that said it, not Wayne

Edit: oh dang, beaten by a milisecond!

h1 over here...

I'd have to fall pretty far down the sack of crap ladder to reach that pool of shit.

Too far Galan. Welcome to ignore

So, DC's MA that have bested him in straight up HTH is:

Karate Kid
Jin Si
Sensei

In no particular order.

Ironfist
Temugin
Matt Murdock
Prince of Orphans
Shang-Chi.

Or there abouts, its pretty arguable.

Moondragon is in there

Originally posted by Galan007
Nope.

Bruce and Val have fought a few times in preboot continuity.

The first time was in Brave and the Bold #5:
http://i.imgur.com/iM3egth.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cb4HqmV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0zQ2Ifg.jpg

The battle was a stalemate for the most part before it was interrupted.


Soon afterward they fought again in JLA #8(The Lightning Saga):
http://i.imgur.com/WwyVRGg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Ud2Axt8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/75fkIRI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KBjAroN.jpg

This time we learned that Clark had ranked KK as a class 15 fighter(for a point of comparison, Batman was ranked as a class 12.) Additionally, KK appeared to have a decisive edge this time(despite the multiple cutscenes), and was only stopped when Black Lightning suckered him from behind.


Countdown #50 retold the above battle--this time without the cutscenes:
http://i.imgur.com/ZGjZ5p2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xTSBD2A.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/159WdXO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LFoz78c.jpg

Bruce performed admirably, but KK was still shown to have the clear advantage. In fact, after the battle Bruce said that Clark got it wrong: KK should be a class 25 fighter, not a class 15. Lol.


*Even though these fights occurred the same year(2007), the issue of BatB was set before The Lightning Saga:
http://i.imgur.com/7X8eEUI.jpg


Anywho, Bruce is absolutely skilled enough to give Val the fight of his life, but in a neutral, featureless environment, Val has the advantage.

I guess that Val Armorr's actor nickname is Belt Stealer.

Originally posted by Juk3n




Matt Murdock

Iron fist isn't more skilled than daredevil.

This is a thread that includes both pure moves, and "superpowers that their martial arts gives them", which is to say chi-mysticism. So yeah, Iron Fist is more skilled than Daredevil, because his skill in pure moves plus his skill in chi-mysticism adds up to more than Daredevil's.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Iron fist isn't more skilled than daredevil.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Iron fist isn't more skilled than daredevil.

And they're both beneath Bruce.

I forgot to add Temujin.

Originally posted by VanMae
This is a thread that includes both pure moves, and "superpowers that their martial arts gives them", which is to say chi-mysticism. So yeah, Iron Fist is more skilled than Daredevil, because his skill in pure moves plus his skill in chi-mysticism adds up to more than Daredevil's.
His chi isn't a superpower due to his skills. He took it from Shao Lao when he killed the dragon.

In pure skills he is decisively below Wolverine.

Originally posted by abhilegend
His chi isn't a superpower due to his skills. He took it from Shao Lao when he killed the dragon.

In pure skills he is decisively below Wolverine. actually, he was capable of chi amping even before he killed shao lao. Also, I'm not sure that I'd consider a sparring match to be the decisive thing to go by..

Originally posted by deathslash
actually, he was capable of chi amping even before he killed shao lao. Also, I'm not sure that I'd consider a sparring match to be the decisive thing to go by..
Not at current level.

Yes, why not? It's not like I'm showing you ****ing Sue Storm stalemating him him in h2h.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not at current level.

Yes, why not? It's not like I'm showing you ****ing Sue Storm stalemating him him in h2h. you referring to that showing where she used her powers several times in conjunction with her martial abilities? Danny's already beaten logan, Kurt, and colossus down in a single showing.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It's not like I'm showing you ****ing Sue Storm stalemating him him in h2h. "But I'm bringing it up and am going to use it from here on"

Originally posted by deathslash
actually, he was capable of chi amping even before he killed shao lao. Also, I'm not sure that I'd consider a sparring match to be the decisive thing to go by..


Iron Fist own Chi makes him peak human.

http://phantombunburyist.freedomforceforever.com/cripp12/24/th_ironfistback.jpg


Of course he had some upgrades since that.

Originally posted by deathslash
you referring to that showing where she used her powers several times in conjunction with her martial abilities? Danny's already beaten logan, Kurt, and colossus down in a single showing.
No, I'm not.

That was before Logan was established as a martial artist.

Originally posted by abhilegend
His chi isn't a superpower due to his skills. He took it from Shao Lao when he killed the dragon.

In pure skills he is decisively below Wolverine. Nope

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, I'm not.

That was before Logan was established as a martial artist. he was established as a martial artist in his first series and even then, Kurt was established as a martial artist with superhuman agility.

Originally posted by deathslash
he was established as a martial artist in his first series and even then, Kurt was established as a martial artist with superhuman agility.
That was before Wolverine first series.

We are not talking about Nightcrawler here.

And Kurt had no MA skillzzz at that point, either... just a circus freak with enhanced stats and (very limited then) teleportation.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
And Kurt had no MA skillzzz at that point, either... just a circus freak with enhanced stats and (very limited then) teleportation. I knew if I said enough I could get you to join in. I'm wondering then, is logan in the top 5 IYO?

Out of widely known characters? Definitely...

Thing is, Marvel has plenty of obscures. Ogun, Stick, Izo, Po - "old masters" category. And guys like Gorgon "stop trying to match his skills", Murderous Lion "one of the best fighters in the world" or even Kitty Pryde "you might be even better than Logan".

There are also striking power specialists, like Mandarin, Temugin or - the sad jobber - Karnak.

Shang-Chi used to be described as the best MA on the planet during Marvel's classic era.

Marvel made an interesting list themselves... and by interesting I mean there's Orson Randall here - another obscure character you don't see mentioned often on Vs. boards:

http://marvel.com/news/comics/9384/take_10_martial_artists

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Out of widely known characters? Definitely...

Thing is, Marvel has plenty of obscures. Ogun, Stick, Izo, Po - "old masters" category. And guys like Gorgon "stop trying to match his skills", Murderous Lion "one of the best fighters in the world" or even Kitty Pryde "you might be even better than Logan".

There are also striking power specialists, like Mandarin, Temugin or - the sad jobber - Karnak.

Shang-Chi used to be described as the best MA on the planet during Marvel's classic era.

Marvel made an interesting list themselves... and by interesting I mean there's Orson Randall here - another obscure character you don't see mentioned often on Vs. boards:

http://marvel.com/news/comics/9384/take_10_martial_artists thanks for the info. Out of every known marvel character that isn't a robot, alien, or someone from the future and has managed to reach the level that they're at through skill, what does your top five (or top ten) look like? Same question applies to dc characters (if you have enough knowledge of them).

Forgot White Canary on my list. In the short amount of time she was able to:

1. Own Black Canary/Huntress at the same time.
2. Easily evade Hawk who has super speed.
3. Been called Shiva level MA.
4. Able to tank the Canary Cry.
5. Kill the Twelve Brothers In Silk.

So many good ones in Marvel. Echo should be mentioned for sure as well. Im putting Matt in top 5 Marvel for sure. Him, Rand, Chi, Echo, Tasky, Elektra are all interchangeable. I dont consider Moondragon part of Earth.