Was Rey's force progression WAY too fast?

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Darth Abonis
I think Rey learned how to use the Force too fast. It took Luke 3 years to really start being able to do telekinesis and his first ligthsaber duel with Vader in the comics was a joke. Yet, Rey is able to do a mind trick on her second try; Luke couldn't do it at all in Heir to the Jedi. Also, Rey was able to beat Kylo Ren in a lightsaber duel, without any training and summoned Luke's old lightsaber to her hand, by defying the force pull of Kylo, a highly trained Force-sensitive. What I'm saying is. Is this just a glaring plot problem or is Rey perhaps the strongest in the Force in Disney canon, and the fastest learner; above Luke, Ezra, Kanan etc.

ares834

Lord Lucien
Lightsabers give visions now and choose their wielders like wands from Harry Potter.

If I'm cool with that (and I am), I can handle Rey learning the Force real goods real fasts.


It's magic. She's a wizard.

Bentley
I don't mind Rey as long as she dies in the next film and her powers in the Force are never explained.

Darth Abonis
Originally posted by Bentley
I don't mind Rey as long as she dies in the next film and her powers in the Force are never explained.


Lol

Lord Lucien
I'm hoping that Luke gives her the Potara earrings so she can fuse with Kylo Ren to defeat Snoke.

Darth Abonis
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I'm hoping that Luke gives her the Potara earrings so she can fuse with Kylo Ren to defeat Snoke.

LOL.

queeq
As long as that will give us more wizard lightsaber 'unts unts unts unts' scenes... with extra CGI, I'm fine with that.

NewLanceWindu
Originally posted by Darth Abonis
I think Rey learned how to use the Force too fast. It took Luke 3 years to really start being able to do telekinesis and his first ligthsaber duel with Vader in the comics was a joke. Yet, Rey is able to do a mind trick on her second try; Luke couldn't do it at all in Heir to the Jedi. Also, Rey was able to beat Kylo Ren in a lightsaber duel, without any training and summoned Luke's old lightsaber to her hand, by defying the force pull of Kylo, a highly trained Force-sensitive. What I'm saying is. Is this just a glaring plot problem or is Rey perhaps the strongest in the Force in Disney canon, and the fastest learner; above Luke, Ezra, Kanan etc.

What you're not taking into account is Rey most likely being an extremely powerful Force user who was trained from a very young age before being left on Jakku with a mental block. The events of The Force Awakens kickstarting her brain and awakening what she already knew.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by NewLanceWindu
What you're not taking into account is Rey most likely being an extremely powerful Force user who was trained from a very young age before being left on Jakku with a mental block. The events of The Force Awakens kickstarting her brain and awakening what she already knew.


Hopefully.

queeq
Originally posted by NewLanceWindu
What you're not taking into account is Rey most likely being an extremely powerful Force user who was trained from a very young age before being left on Jakku with a mental block. The events of The Force Awakens kickstarting her brain and awakening what she already knew.

Assumptions, assumptions...

NewLanceWindu
Originally posted by queeq
Assumptions, assumptions...

Absolutely, but is the most likely theory.

queeq
I dunno. There's very little evidence of that. I'm waiting fro the next movie. wink

Bentley
If Rey doesn't turn out to be Palpatine in drag I'll be disappointed.

queeq
Ah, well me too! wink

Sith Master X
If the "lightsabers give visions" idea came from Lucas, it would be about as panned as midi-chilorians.

queeq
The Force gives visions... not lightsabers.

Q99
Not really. She got first-hand experience with mind techniques, Kylo practically projecting stuff into her head, then it took her multiple tries to get it right.


Note Luke was deflecting blaster bolts in a few minutes after starting.

queeq
What do mind techniques have to do with Force visions? Besides Kylo uses the Force to extract stuff from people like Rey and Poe.

ares834
Originally posted by Q99
Not really. She got first-hand experience with mind techniques, Kylo practically projecting stuff into her head, then it took her multiple tries to get it right.


Note Luke was deflecting blaster bolts in a few minutes after starting.

Sure, but that is merely him letting the force guide him not actively using force powers.

Which is something Rey was capable of doing this before she had any force training as we see when she flies the Falcon.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by Q99



Note Luke was deflecting blaster bolts in a few minutes after starting.

It's not as if he was effortlessly doing it off the bat, until he was focused and even then he had guidance from Obi-Wan.

That and it's not really great, when in the PT you have younglings doing it. So it's more a basic starter thing he did.

queeq
OMG... he said 'younglings'.

Q99
Originally posted by ares834
Sure, but that is merely him letting the force guide him not actively using force powers.

Which is something Rey was capable of doing this before she had any force training as we see when she flies the Falcon.

She didn't use the force when guiding the Falcon, not in any obvious ways- not in any way that Anakin didn't do untrained, or Luke in his T-16.



Rey, also, knew stories of force users and what they can do. "The legends, they're all true," - Han.

So she had a rough idea what could be done, then she saw it / experienced it being done, then it took her repeated tries to get it right.

Sure, it's an unusual first-usage, but most prodigies pick up a few things pretty fast.

ares834
She most certainly used the force while flying the Falcon. It's extremely obvious when she sets up Finn for his shot.

Beniboybling
I didn't realise she was Force sensitive until the she found Anakin's lightsaber tbh, so I'd agree with Q.

ares834
That's because of Disney's intentionally misleading marketing strategy. Re-watch the film, it's very clear she is using the force there.

BTW, I've no problem with her using it there. My problem lies with her using mind tricks and defeating Kylo Ren with absolutely no training. She became far too powerful, too fast.

Q99
Originally posted by Zenwolf
It's not as if he was effortlessly doing it off the bat, until he was focused and even then he had guidance from Obi-Wan.


Yea, and similarly, Rey was able to try repeatedly.


Note that Kylo had mind-KOed her, then spent time mind-probing her, and then got so sloppy he seemed to have *projected* information directly into her head. And she'd heard legends so likely knew mind tricks were a thing.

That's enough for me to buy as makeship guidance.

Darth Thor
Rey clearly advanced way too fast. But they still have time to explain/justify that - I'm going with mind wipe. Or she's just forgotten training she had as a child.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by ares834
That's because of Disney's intentionally misleading marketing strategy. Re-watch the film, it's very clear she is using the force there.When it comes out on DVD. smile

queeq
Hehehe

Jaeh
I honestly have this same exact issue. I kind of couldn't follow how Rey beat Ben at first

then I watched it 3 times and realised that
1. Ben was injured and has moments of light-dark warring in him and he just killed his dad maybe he's feeling remorse?
2. compared to Ben, Rey is a hard worker and knows how to learn through example.

That said, I hope there is more to her backstory because this feels so flimsy. I feel like TFA is a huge preview to the real deal and I hope that they answer all questions that arise properly.

queeq
Yup.

But I also felt after watching TFA a couple of times, Rey's not that good at the fight up until the moment at the edge of the abyss. Then the Force kicks in in her moment of despair.

So, she's not a natural. But she is in tune with the Force.

Besides, I think Ben wanted her alive.

Jaeh
Originally posted by queeq
Besides, I think Ben wanted her alive.

Ben really really wants a friend sad

(On a more serious note, it seems like he really REALLY wanted Rey to like him or at the very least, understand him. Recruitment?)

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by queeq

So, she's not a natural. But she is in tune with the Force.

Those two are pretty much one and the same. Still doesn't make up for her overpowering Kylo during her interrogation. It's really just a build up of several dumb, yet legitimate, plot points to explain why Rey should have her moment and Kylo his scar for the next film.

queeq
Perhaps.

What I meant was: she's not a natural light sabre fighter. I don't think being in tune with the Force automatically gives you fighting SKILLS. It gives one abilities to 'see things before they happen'. That's helpful in a fight of course.

However she does have some stick fighting skills (we saw her using her staff as a weapon earlier, clearly the result of considerable practice) and she seems in tune with the Force. The combo is what we see.

FreshestSlice
Well, honestly it depends on the author, but a lot of times more power does mean more skill, not really disagreeing, just saying.

queeq
Yeah, in a way. But the Force doesn't teach someone how to handle a sword... You still have to learn the skills by training.

FreshestSlice
Kyle Katarn.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Kyle Katarn.

Kyle had teaching though, he used his Stormtrooper fencing training in conjunction with what he learned from Master Rahn to use his lightsaber.

queeq
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Kyle Katarn.

EU.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Kyle had teaching though, he used his Stormtrooper fencing training in conjunction with what he learned from Master Rahn to use his lightsaber.
Neither of which knew much about lightsaber techniques as those were found again much later.
Originally posted by queeq
EU.
As heavily as Canon has borrowed from Legends already, I doubt this has changed much. Not to mention Luke being able to take on Vader with bare minimum in actual combat training.

Zenwolf
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Neither of which knew much about lightsaber techniques as those were found again much later.

Right but it's not as if Kyle was just some bum who picked up a saber and knew how to use it. He did have some form of training.

EmperorSidious2
Well, yes and no. Her potential as a Skywalker just showed itself in a different way. Better way.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Right but it's not as if Kyle was just some bum who picked up a saber and knew how to use it. He did have some form of training.
I mean Rey does too. I'm actually more annoyed by Kylo's performance than hers, if we we're being honest.

queeq
Well, maybe that's exactly what the film makers went for. I am sure Kylo feels the same way. Maybe ironically this fight drive out the last shreds of light in him.

Except maybe one tiny shred which will cause his turn back to the light.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice

As heavily as Canon has borrowed from Legends already, I doubt this has changed much. Not to mention Luke being able to take on Vader with bare minimum in actual combat training.

It's still EU and therefore not an argument.

Jaeh
Originally posted by queeq
Perhaps.

What I meant was: she's not a natural light sabre fighter. I don't think being in tune with the Force automatically gives you fighting SKILLS. It gives one abilities to 'see things before they happen'. That's helpful in a fight of course.

However she does have some stick fighting skills (we saw her using her staff as a weapon earlier, clearly the result of considerable practice) and she seems in tune with the Force. The combo is what we see.

^this, and if you watch her use the lightsaber she wields it a bit like a staff.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by queeq
Well, maybe that's exactly what the film makers went for. I am sure Kylo feels the same way. Maybe ironically this fight drive out the last shreds of light in him.

Except maybe one tiny shred which will cause his turn back to the light.



It's still EU and therefore not an argument.
It's not even about that. The film just sets up reason upon reason on why one part deserved victory over another which completely ruins tension. I have no doubt that's what the film makers were going for. It doesn't make it less annoying, but incredibly more so.

Something being in the EU doesn't exactly stop it from being an argument. If the Force works exactly the same, and it has since TCW, I don't see why it would radically change, especially when Rebels has examples of pretty much the same thing in Kanan, who has minimal training at best. erm

queeq
EU simply cannot be used as an argument in a canon debate. So far Katarn is the ONLY example used and it's EU. So it simply doesn't count.

And I understand what you're saying about the Kylo-Rey fight. It didn't feel that way to me because it seems to set up for something much bigger. All SW now has to do, is deliver...

Sith Master X
Originally posted by queeq
The Force gives visions... not lightsabers.

Maz Kanata "That lightsaber was Luke's, and his father's before him and now it calls to you!"

She specifically says the "Lightsaber" is calling to Rey. Then later she goes on to say "the force" will guide her. So the Force could have given her that vision anytime really.

It was more than obvious and implied in the movie that the "vision" was attached to the light-saber, since she was practically teleported after she touched the thing.

Yes, the Force gives visions, and according to TFA, inanimate objects do as well.

queeq
Well, just because Maz says so, it doesn't mean it's true. Sure, the Force uses the lightsaber to guide Rey, just like the Force used the tree on Dagobah to teach Luke. The tree is not the Dark Side.

Lord Lucien
Or what if it actually IS the Dark Side. I have a theory, hear me out guys--- The tree on Dagobah is actually Darth Plagueis, who has managed to merge his soul with the Dark Side itself, and live forever as an immortal tree.


Pretty solid theory, guys.

queeq
Okay, you convinced me.

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