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For far too long, Big Bad VLADDDDD (Count Dracula) has been absent from the tierings here at KMC, so lets put this to a vote and place him where he belongs...

I think you should've added a High Abstract tier in the poll. The big bad Vlad Drac of Transylvania and the surrounding Carpathian lands is beyond the current tiers listed.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
I think you should've added a High Abstract tier in the poll.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder




http://i.imgur.com/zQQWMUY.gif

I'm honestly torn between High Meta and Low Herald for Drac...

On one hand, he doesnt have the showings of raw power on par with the majority of characters in that tier, but on the other hand he has combat showings on par with and sometimes above that of other Low Heralds...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I'm honestly torn between High Meta and Low Herald for Drac...

On one hand, he doesnt have the showings of raw power on par with the majority of characters in that tier, but on the other hand he has combat showings on par with and sometimes above that of other Low Heralds...
High Meta for sure. Low Herald is a bridge too far IMHO.

Think about it, Jack of Hearts is a low herald (even ignoring his space cheese feats like reigniting a dying star and stuff) he actually produced enough power to stagger Tyrant. I mean Tyrant didn't move or cry out in pain or anything but he felt it. I don't see Dracula doing that to Tyrant.

Example Two : Nova, herald of Galactus. Considered his weakest herald but even she made a star go nova (and was able to survive in it's core despite the insane heat and pressure). If you want to leave out the space cheesiness of this feat, consider she dropped WoL Morg with a hellaciouis sneak attack (she actually did better than the rest of the heralds COMBINED). I don't see Drac doing that to regular Morg, let alone WoL Morg.

Originally posted by zopzop
High Meta for sure. Low Herald is a bridge too far IMHO.

Think about it, Jack of Hearts is a low herald (even ignoring his space cheese feats like reigniting a dying star and stuff) he actually produced enough power to stagger Tyrant. I mean Tyrant didn't move or cry out in pain or anything but he felt it. I don't see Dracula doing that to Tyrant.

Example Two : Nova, herald of Galactus. Considered his weakest herald but even she made a star go nova (and was able to survive in it's core despite the insane heat and pressure). If you want to leave out the space cheesiness of this feat, consider she dropped WoL Morg with a hellaciouis sneak attack (she actually did better than the rest of the heralds COMBINED). I don't see Drac doing that to regular Morg, let alone WoL Morg.

Very true...very true.

What about combat feats though? Dracula has broken Classic Stranges imprisoning spell and wards of protection with nothing but raw power...

He's also defeated Surfer...

How do combat feats factor into tiering in your opinion zop, or is tiering all about raw power?

I see there is a troll here that voted Drac to be Low Meta...lol.

Drac is way above Low Meta; he's wiped out an entire villiage (while weakened) with nothing but raw power; Low Meta's cant do that...

http://i.imgur.com/EBQ5UeJ.png

Isn't TOAA a vampire?

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Isn't TOAA a vampire?
If he isnt, he will be....

I don't think I've ever read a comic with him, only seen a few scans and read bios. I know he's quite versatile, but dunno how impressive each power is. Seeing that destroying a village while weakened has me pretty interested in this topic.

My first thought is that Dracula is Mid-High Meta. All powers considered.

Mid meta. I cant see him being a peer of Tonys

Originally posted by Delta1938
I don't think I've ever read a comic with him, only seen a few scans and read bios. I know he's quite versatile, but dunno how impressive each power is. Seeing that destroying a village while weakened has me pretty interested in this topic.



Drac has some low feats (nearly all characters do), but also has some really good ones like this:

Originally posted by Stoic
My first thought is that Dracula is Mid-High Meta. All powers considered.

This seems fair...

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Mid meta. I cant see him being a peer of Tonys

I believe Starks currently tiers Low Herald; even as a High Meta he wouldnt be a peer to him...

@Sin I Am...

Since Dracula is capable of the following, shouldnt it rank him higher than Mid Meta?

http://i.imgur.com/yHjWgVI.png
http://i.imgur.com/TmvQkZe.png

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder


Drac has some low feats (nearly all characters do), but also has some really good ones like this:

Looks like a cheap shot, and Surfer's dialogue indicates Dracula's presence weakened him, but even with those, still a lot higher than I'd expect from what I read. I think the Handbooks put him at around 1 or 2 tons.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Looks like a cheap shot, and Surfer's dialogue indicates Dracula's presence weakened him, but even with those, still a lot higher than I'd expect from what I read. I think the Handbooks put him at around 1 or 2 tons.

Dracula did utilize his stealth ability to sneak up on Surfer in that scan, but I wouldnt call it a cheap shot as Surfer was there for a fight (he was after Dracula) and Dracula simply used Mist Form to get the advantage before striking...

And you are correct, Dracula's Aura of Evil causes Surfer to weaken when Dracula gets close enough to him, so yeah Surfer wasnt at his normal level of power when the above occurred, but Surfer being weakened was 100% caused by Dracula's power set, so its fair game...

As for Dracula's strength, I cant remember his strength level off the top of my head, but no way in hell is a Class 1 or 2 doing the following (keep in mind that Handbooks arent always accurate):

http://i.imgur.com/FTnS9kh.png
http://i.imgur.com/OiUxILT.png

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Dracula did utilize his stealth ability to sneak up on Surfer in that scan, but I wouldnt call it a cheap shot as Surfer was there for a fight (he was after Dracula) and Dracula simply used Mist Form to get the advantage before striking...

And you are correct, Dracula's Aura of Evil causes Surfer to weaken when Dracula gets close enough to him, so yeah Surfer wasnt at his normal level of power when the above occurred, but Surfer being weakened was 100% caused by Dracula's power set, so its fair game...

As for Dracula's strength, I cant remember his strength level off the top of my head, but no way in hell is a Class 1 or 2 doing the following (keep in mind that Handbooks arent always accurate):

http://i.imgur.com/FTnS9kh.png
http://i.imgur.com/OiUxILT.png

Surfer may not have been fully prepared, but I would say not a complete cheap shot.

Yeah, it came off as because of Dracula instead of some outside factor, but this wouldn't indicate how Dracula's striking power fairs against Surfer's normal durability. And, has it shown to effect anybody else? But even then(and even if it were a total cheap shot), it's a lot stronger than I was expecting Dracula to be.

Yep, I know they're not always accurate, and comics definitely take priority over them. I was pointing-out that(if I remembered right) was the only strength gauge I knew. I'm learning from this topic, might actually do some reading of Dracula appearances when I'm done(or take a break) from some other research projects I'm doing, since this has got my interest.

And yep, definitely stronger than 2 tons. Have any non-combat strength feats for Drac?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I believe Starks currently tiers Low Herald Easily. His accolades speak for themselves.

@Delta1938

No, unfortuately I have, nor can I recall, any non combat strength feats of note for Drac...

For anyone else on the fence as pertains where Dracla tiers, here is Dracula beating off an attempt at mind rape from Classic Strange and then successfully pulling off a rape mind of his own against Strange:

http://i.imgur.com/ovI8SQm.png

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@Delta1938

No, unfortuately I have, nor can I recall, any non combat strength feats of note for Drac...

Too bad. Not a requirement, I'd say those examples definitely put him above 2 tons, but would've been nice for some straight-up feats.

Out of curiosity, I looked through the various Handbooks, he only has 3 entries in the regular Handbooks, one in the Gamers' Guide from the TSR RPG(but I dunno what the stats mean).

The 1983 series says he can lift "2,000+ pounds" and "Since Dracula's mortal strength was already double that of the average man of his time, it can be said that his strength as a vampire is about 20 men."

The 1993 edition has his strength at "Enhanced Human," which I believe Marvel had as 800 lbs to 2 tons.

The 2005 "HORROR" entry has his strength rating at a 4 out of 7. If it's like the trading card series of the early 90's, that's 2-10 tons.

But yeah, I'd say the examples with Surfer and Colossus would be a lot higher. I'd say on par with Thing.

Can someone rehash the tier thread?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Can someone rehash the tier thread?

Sure..here are the Mid Meta's:

Adam Strange, Aegis, Atom Smasher, Attuma, Balder, Beast Boy, Bishop, Blink, Blob, Blue Beetle (Jamie Reyes), Blue Devil, Bombshell, Booster Gold, Carnage, Cloak, Corrin, Cyborg, Cyclops, Darkhawk, Death's Head, Death Wreck, Dust, Electro, Elijah Snow, Farenheit, Flint, Fuji, Ghost Rider (Johnny Blaze), Ghost Rider(Dan Ketch), Gorgon, Grace Choi, Hawkgirl, Hawkman, Hellion, Jubilee, Karolina Dean, Kymaera/Namorita, Lightning Lad, Matua, M.O.D.O.K., Molly Hayes, Moonstone, Morlun, Ms. Marvel, Nova Richard Rider (classic), Ogun, Omega Red, Quicksilver (classic), Ragman, Rogue, Rom, Sebastian Shaw, Shadowcat, Shift, Speedball, Steel, Terra, Thunder, Tiger Shark, Toxin, Vance Astro, Vengeance, Venom, Victor Mancha, Warlock (Technarchy/Phalanx), Wonder Girl, Yellowjacket (Hank Pym)


Here are the High Meta's:

Abomination, Aquaman, Ares (Marvel), Atlas, Aurora, Batman 1 Million, Battalion (Jackson King), Blastaar, BOX I (Roger Bochs), Captain Britain, Captain Marvel Jr, Colossus, Crystal, Death's Head II, Donna Troy, Emma Frost, Gamora, Ghost Rider II, Grim Reaper, Guardian II (Heather Hudson), Havok, Hellstrike, Hercules (Mortal), Holocaust, The Human Torch, Invisible Woman, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Jenny Sparks, Juggernaut (Depowered), Karate Kid, Living Laser, Machine Man, Manbot, Mandarin, Mary Marvel, Maul, Mercer Drake, Metallo, Mimic (Exiles), Miss Martian, Mr. Fantastic, Mr. Sinister, Namor the Sub-Mariner, Nico Minoru, Nightshade, Northstar, Ocean Master, Osiris, Pitt, Polaris, Psylocke, Radioactive Man, Sand, Sasquatch, Shassa, She-Hulk, Spiral, Starfire, Storm, Supernova, Temugin, The Thing, Thunderstrike, The Tick, Ulik, Ultimo, Vision, War Machine, Windshear, Wonder Man, Zzaxx


And here are the Low Heralds:

Absorbing Man, Air Walker, Animal Man, Apocalypse, Apollo, Aquaman (DCNU), Argent, The Atom, Aztek, Breach, Cassandra Nova, Cir-El, Damage, Darkness, Darwin, Death's Head 3.0, Death Metal, Doomsday (DOS), Doctor Doom, Dr. Invincible, Dr. Light, Dr. Light II (Kimiyo Hoshi), Dr. Polaris, Drax The Destroyer, Enchantress, Engineer, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Forerunner, Gammid, Gilgamesh, Gold Key Solar, Gorilla Grodd, Graviton, Green Lantern (Soranik Natu), Guardian I (James Hudson), He-Man, Hector Hammond, Hercules (Immortal), Iceman, Invincible, Iron Man, Isis, Jade, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Jack of Hearts, Jericho, Kalibak, Kang, Krypto, Lightray, Living Monolith, Loki (Ultimate), Lunatik, Madison Jeffries (BOX IV), Magneto (U), Major Force, Makkari, Man-Beast, Manchester Black, Marrina (Leviathan), Mar-Vell, Matrix Supergirl, Meggan, Mongul, Monica Rambeau (Pulsar), Mr. M, Nimrod, Nova (Frankie Raye), Nova Richard Rider (current), Plastic Man, Power Girl, Prime, Professor X, Raven, Ravenous, The Ray, Red Tornado, Ronan the Accuser, Saturn Girl, Selene (External), Shadow King, Snowbird, Starhawk, Starman, Super Skrull, Stryfe, Superboy, Tempest, Thor (Ultimate), Ultra Boy, Ultra-Humanite, Ultron, Union, Vulcan, Wendigo, Winter, Witchfire (Normal), Zauriel

In my honest opinion, he is far more powerful than anyone in the Mid Meta tier (and would win a fight against almost all of them) and the same would apply for the High Meta tier although the power differential is much closer...

There are certain foes in the Low Herald tier that Dracula would win against (like Absorbing Man and Gorilla Grodd), but his ability to compete drops off drastically against the tier as a whole...especially when compared to the quanity of foes he'd beat among the Mid and High Meta's.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Sure..here are the Mid Meta's:

Adam Strange, Aegis, Atom Smasher, Attuma, Balder, Beast Boy, Bishop, Blink, Blob, Blue Beetle (Jamie Reyes), Blue Devil, Bombshell, Booster Gold, Carnage, Cloak, Corrin, Cyborg, Cyclops, Darkhawk, Death's Head, Death Wreck, Dust, Electro, Elijah Snow, Farenheit, Flint, Fuji, Ghost Rider (Johnny Blaze), Ghost Rider(Dan Ketch), Gorgon, Grace Choi, Hawkgirl, Hawkman, Hellion, Jubilee, Karolina Dean, Kymaera/Namorita, Lightning Lad, Matua, M.O.D.O.K., Molly Hayes, Moonstone, Morlun, Ms. Marvel, Nova Richard Rider (classic), Ogun, Omega Red, Quicksilver (classic), Ragman, Rogue, Rom, Sebastian Shaw, Shadowcat, Shift, Speedball, Steel, Terra, Thunder, Tiger Shark, Toxin, Vance Astro, Vengeance, Venom, Victor Mancha, Warlock (Technarchy/Phalanx), Wonder Girl, Yellowjacket (Hank Pym)


Here are the High Meta's:

Abomination, Aquaman, Ares (Marvel), Atlas, Aurora, Batman 1 Million, Battalion (Jackson King), Blastaar, BOX I (Roger Bochs), Captain Britain, Captain Marvel Jr, Colossus, Crystal, Death's Head II, Donna Troy, Emma Frost, Gamora, Ghost Rider II, Grim Reaper, Guardian II (Heather Hudson), Havok, Hellstrike, Hercules (Mortal), Holocaust, The Human Torch, Invisible Woman, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Jenny Sparks, Juggernaut (Depowered), Karate Kid, Living Laser, Machine Man, Manbot, Mandarin, Mary Marvel, Maul, Mercer Drake, Metallo, Mimic (Exiles), Miss Martian, Mr. Fantastic, Mr. Sinister, Namor the Sub-Mariner, Nico Minoru, Nightshade, Northstar, Ocean Master, Osiris, Pitt, Polaris, Psylocke, Radioactive Man, Sand, Sasquatch, Shassa, She-Hulk, Spiral, Starfire, Storm, Supernova, Temugin, The Thing, Thunderstrike, The Tick, Ulik, Ultimo, Vision, War Machine, Windshear, Wonder Man, Zzaxx


And here are the Low Heralds:

Absorbing Man, Air Walker, Animal Man, Apocalypse, Apollo, Aquaman (DCNU), Argent, The Atom, Aztek, Breach, Cassandra Nova, Cir-El, Damage, Darkness, Darwin, Death's Head 3.0, Death Metal, Doomsday (DOS), Doctor Doom, Dr. Invincible, Dr. Light, Dr. Light II (Kimiyo Hoshi), Dr. Polaris, Drax The Destroyer, Enchantress, Engineer, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Forerunner, Gammid, Gilgamesh, Gold Key Solar, Gorilla Grodd, Graviton, Green Lantern (Soranik Natu), Guardian I (James Hudson), He-Man, Hector Hammond, Hercules (Immortal), Iceman, Invincible, Iron Man, Isis, Jade, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Jack of Hearts, Jericho, Kalibak, Kang, Krypto, Lightray, Living Monolith, Loki (Ultimate), Lunatik, Madison Jeffries (BOX IV), Magneto (U), Major Force, Makkari, Man-Beast, Manchester Black, Marrina (Leviathan), Mar-Vell, Matrix Supergirl, Meggan, Mongul, Monica Rambeau (Pulsar), Mr. M, Nimrod, Nova (Frankie Raye), Nova Richard Rider (current), Plastic Man, Power Girl, Prime, Professor X, Raven, Ravenous, The Ray, Red Tornado, Ronan the Accuser, Saturn Girl, Selene (External), Shadow King, Snowbird, Starhawk, Starman, Super Skrull, Stryfe, Superboy, Tempest, Thor (Ultimate), Ultra Boy, Ultra-Humanite, Ultron, Union, Vulcan, Wendigo, Winter, Witchfire (Normal), Zauriel

Thats not an accurate list

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Thats not an accurate list

Agreed...its outdated, and just plain wrong in places.

Nevertheless, Dracula should be on it somewhere...

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Thats not an accurate list what!? You mean that the list that was made several years ago isn't accurate anymore? Hersey!

On a more serious note though, we really need to update that list.

Dracs esoteric powers combined with his decent strength showings is enough to make him a very low herald

Low herald, he would beat Iron man and other low heralds

Originally posted by relentless1
Dracs esoteric powers combined with his decent strength showings is enough to make him a very low herald

This is exactly what I think when my shifting thoughts are leaning towards Drac being a Low Herald...

He's got a multitude of effective, exotic, powers...

For example, Dracula's magical lighting actually follows its target around; against Nightcrawler, it followed him everywhere he went (Nightcrawler teleported several times attempting to evade the lighting, but it teleported to his location every single time )...

I'll post a scan of this tomorrow...

Originally posted by h1a8
Low herald, he would beat Iron man and other low heralds

If he can get eye contact with Starks, then he could win (if he can dominate Strange and Wolvie, then I'm betting he could dominate Tony as well)...

And I do agree with you that there are several Low Heralds that he could beat...

He should be on whatever tier that someone who can shoot vampire missiles from his base on the moon deserves to be on.

Originally posted by Surtur
He should be on whatever tier that someone who can shoot vampire missiles from his base on the moon deserves to be on.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
High Abstract.

Sounds about right.

Originally posted by Surtur
Sounds about right.

Here is the scan of Dracs magical lightning that can even track targets that teleport:

http://i.imgur.com/ShHH8at.png

Btw, I want everyone to know that I've talked to Bada about this, and the official reason for this thread is to properly tier Dracula here at KMC...

Yeah but the lightning doesn't compare to:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/5/59221/1810707-capbritain137.jpg

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Btw, I want everyone to know that I've talked to Bada about this, and the official reason for this thread is to properly tier Dracula here at KMC...



when will it be closed?

Because right now, it seems the majority rank him High Meta or lower.

Which is no bad thing; when you place him in fight threads in future, if people ***** that it's spite, point them here.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
when will it be closed?

Because right now, it seems the majority rank him High Meta or lower.

Which is no bad thing; when you place him in fight threads in future, if people ***** that it's spite, point them here.



Me and Bada didnt set a hard date for it to close; we just said a few days...

Originally posted by Surtur
Yeah but the lightning doesn't compare to:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/5/59221/1810707-capbritain137.jpg



Assuming the voting stays as is, Dracula with his army in tow, would be the undisputed top dog of the High Meta tier...

That seems fair to me!

:-)

He's hard to place, because he technically has the combined powers of a decent-sized team: Storm, Vermin, Shadowcat, Mesmero, and Sabretooth. That's nothing to sneeze at, but it would still be below your typical version of the X-Men or Avengers.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder


Me and Bada didnt set a hard date for it to close; we just said a few days...

I have yet to vote. I haven't seen enough to cast one. While what I've seen has been pretty good, I've been waiting on you to post more. You have disappointed me thus far.

Originally posted by VanMae
He's hard to place, because he technically has the combined powers of a decent-sized team: Storm, Vermin, Shadowcat, Mesmero, and Sabretooth. That's nothing to sneeze at, but it would still be below your typical version of the X-Men or Avengers.

Very true...

Based upon his powerset, he's (at least in my mind) a bonafide Low Herald, BUT you do have to factor in his weakness (and are crippling against certain foes)...

As a whole High Meta seems about right, although I'd have no problem seeing him placed into the Low Herald tier...


PS...given what you know of him, where would you tier him?

Originally posted by Delta1938
I have yet to vote. I haven't seen enough to cast one. While what I've seen has been pretty good, I've been waiting on you to post more. You have disappointed me thus far.

Sorry to disappoint you...

The truth is Drac doesnt have many appearances of late; especially compared to a more main stream villian like Thanos or Magneto...

I only have so many feats to post...

Just wanna give my thanks for all who participated in this thread...

Bada is gonna close it soon as its pretty clear that the majority have voted Drac into the High Meta tier (and I think thats a fair assessment given his wide array of strengths and weaknesses) and I dont believe this topic is gonna get many more votes...

So once again, thank you to all who participated in this!

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Very true...

Based upon his powerset, he's (at least in my mind) a bonafide Low Herald, BUT you do have to factor in his weakness (and are crippling against certain foes)...

As a whole High Meta seems about right, although I'd have no problem seeing him placed into the Low Herald tier...


PS...given what you know of him, where would you tier him?

In raw power, I dunno. He's a swiss-army-knife, but even combined his powers couldn't remotely, say, take out a shielded Magneto. His lightning and winds and beastswarms aren't popping Magneto's bubble, and his hypnotism isn't getting past the helmet. He has similar problems against most top-tiers, with his versatility not quite making up for his lack of sheer punch.

High Meta seems fair; there a quite a few Low Heralds who would beat him, for example.

He would be the Doom/Martian Manhunter of his tier.

Closed at LOM's request. Looks like High Meta is the consensus.