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Skyfather. For years we've used this term to describe both power level and position in regards to figure heads of heavenly pantheons. But what does it mean? Are all sky daddies equal? Is Vishnu and Osiris up there with Darkseid? Is Zeus (despite lack of feats) truly Odins equal? We know that celestials arent all viewed as equals but in regards to "gods" i hear the opposite.

Oh and because I know someone will bicht about this being a vs thread.

Zeus
Osiris
Ares (DC)
Odin
Vishnu
Darkseid (pre-boot)
Highfather
King Thor
Shiva
Brahma...no holds barred fight. Neutral dimension

NO. Thank you. This needed to be done..Skyfather is just the term of the head of a pantheon. The God Butcher arc explained it best. It does not mean power. Gorr killed thousands of skyfathers when he was still at an average Thor level. If the skyfather in question is the God of Chicken****ing or whatever, just because he is a skyfather does not mean he is that powerful..

Im going tobleave Darkseid out of your list forbright now though.

Odin should be the epitomy of whatever tier this is called.

To me, Odin should be like low abstract. He can fight Galactus to a point. Wait, better to say that he can survive Galactus. I consider Zeus Odins oeer but not as powerful.

To me, Odin should be unbeatable by likes of Thor/Supes/Hulk etc. But not unhurtable if that makes sense.

Like if Supes flew from across universe and just caught Odin unawares on the jaw it should hurt him pretty badly but not be lethal. I dont think anybody that can fight galactus should even be killable by physical means.

skyfather= galaxy level scale and influence, reasonably above trans guys like thanos, but still below abstracts like galactus. thats the general consensus around most comicbook debate forums. odin is the premier skyfather and we judge all other skyfather level characters based on his level. if you arent atleast small galaxy level then youre not skyfather, that term gets thrown around too much around here. skyfather can refer to a level of power or a position. most are talking about a level of power and not the position part.

Get Philosophia in here, he doesent like the term skyfather either.

No...Skyfather= Head of a pantheon, its a title, not a power level. And just remembered something about Odin. He had actually absorbed two of his brothers I believe and he should be considered slightly out of zeus weight class.

Originally posted by ShadowFyre
No...Skyfather= Head of a pantheon, its a title, not a power level.

youre wrong and youre right, go on any other forum and ask what skyfather means and theyll tell you its galaxy level. when we refer to skyfather level thats what were talking about

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/sky-father/4015-55735/

http://www.outskirtsbattledomewiki.com/index.php/13-general-obd-terms/131-skyfather

when were talking about characters power level, were not talking about titles, were talking about power.

the term skyfather in terms of power is based around odin, what is odins power level? galaxy level.

galaxy level? forums are becoming (have become?) jokes..... for my part, i don't think i've ever heard that term applied in the way it's being applied here. wtf is it even supposed to mean? can a 'skyfather' influence something the size of a galaxy? can he blast and destroy an entire galaxy?? that's like, the stupidest thing i've heard in a while. and if other forums have adapted that type of delineation, they're even bigger idiots than some of the people we have frequenting this forum from time to time....

skyfather definition is simple--head of a pantheon. but not all heads of pantheons are equal, because not all pantheons are equal. this....isn't f***** brain surgery.

Zeus did hurt Galactus with punches, and he did so while at human size, and easily ko'd him with lightning.

Since we seem to be judging Odin's level by his relation to Galactus, I would rate Zeus' showing against Galactus above Odin's, which lead to a double headbutt ko that Galactus recovered from first.

Now, Chaos King was controlling Zeus at the time, but according to Pak, you can't take the feat away from Zeus because that was him at full power. So basically Zeus was just a meat puppet for Chaos King, and it was still his own power he was demonstrating, not Chaos King's.

I'm not saying Zeus' is above Odin obviously, Galactus is often variable and we have no idea exactly how their power-levels compared in their respective scenes, I'm just saying I think its wrong to rate Zeus as below Odin in the skyfather hierarchy, I put them on the same footing.

Hell, in this little argument they had:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105551/2325604-2030702_zeus_and_odin.jpg

Zeus was confident enough to engage Odin bare-handed, while Odin had a staff.

Originally posted by leonidas
galaxy level? forums are becoming (have become?) jokes..... for my part, i don't think i've ever heard that term applied in the way it's being applied here. wtf is it even supposed to mean? can a 'skyfather' influence something the size of a galaxy? can he blast and destroy an entire galaxy?? that's like, the stupidest thing i've heard in a while. and if other forums have adapted that type of delineation, they're even bigger idiots than some of the people we have frequenting this forum from time to time....

skyfather definition is simple--head of a pantheon. but not all heads of pantheons are equal, because not all pantheons are equal. this....isn't f***** brain surgery.

read the links i posted, instead of insulting and throwing around what you think is stupid, maybe you should study up, since you just admitted you've never heard that term used that way before. odin is the premier skyfather correct? what level is odin? generally galaxy level. we use the term as a power level, the links i posted show that. next time dont be a condescending *******

Superman>Skyfather

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Superman>Skyfather

Superman>logic and reason. Just with a billion more >'s.

Originally posted by ghostman
read the links i posted, instead of insulting and throwing around what you think is stupid, maybe you should study up, since you just admitted you've never heard that term used that way before. odin is the premier skyfather correct? what level is odin? generally galaxy level. we use the term as a power level, the links i posted show that. next time dont be a condescending *******



when i read something stupid, i condescend. when i read something i find itself to be condescending, i condescend. acting like you, or wherever you got your info from, is some sort of 'wellspring of irrefutable knowledge' is pretty damn ridiculous--and condescending. telling someone they are both right and wrong like you're the authority on this subject is also condescending.

but yeah, i was condescending.

please though, go ahead and enlighten me and the rest of the forum and define 'galaxy level' powa! and its meaning.

as far as odin being premiere in that 'tier'? unknown, since he's never had a full on battle with zeus, so even that assumption may be faulty. we know zelia took down odin pretty easily at one point, so maybe she should have been considered the top? who knows. the definition of 'skyfather' is one thor himself has used in comics, on panel, when meeting other pantheon heads. so it isn't really open for interpretation.

When I think of a Skyfather, I really only think of it from a power POV--not necessarily status. ie. a Skyfather is > trans, but < abstract.

Originally posted by Galan007
When I think of a Skyfather, I really only think of it from a power POV--not necessarily status. ie. a Skyfather is > trans, but < abstract.

Pretty much.

I think the Odin/Thanos/Surfer dynamic mostly covers the relation between tiers, in general, though not all confrontations will be like that. High-heralds can sometimes give skyfathers a fight and not look that far behind.

*Throws hook*
Also funnily enough, Superman by himself also covers the tiers.

The KMC version of Superman covers the tiers yes this is correct.

pretty much exactly the way it has always been looked at....

Originally posted by leonidas
pretty much exactly the way it has always been looked at....

All this 'galaxy' bullshit reminds me of Black Holes being used as durability feats. It's not like we're tier-ing top tiers on who has survived black holes and who hasn't.

@phil: seriously, the whole idea of using terms like that to define power levels is..crazy sh!t.

Superman's tier is 'Powerful as he needs to be' tier.

Also known as Ultimate Hero tier, which he alone occupies.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Superman's tier is 'Powerful as he needs to be' tier.

Also known as Ultimate Hero tier, which he alone occupies.

I don't know sometimes Batman gets very very close to that same tier.

True.

I'd respect Batman a lot more if they just came out and said he was a God.

It's impossible to suspend disbelief with him otherwise.

Originally posted by leonidas
@phil: seriously, the whole idea of using terms like that to define power levels is..crazy sh!t.

Anyway, once we got past skyfathers and into abstracts, the herald-levelers need a plot device to win or can at best hurt them . Trans-levelers can more visibly rock them , while skyfathers can go at it but eventually lose or flat out be portrayed as vastly inferior .

Overall, I think we can find a rough outline, but there are exceptions, of course.

Originally posted by leonidas


when i read something stupid, i condescend. when i read something i find itself to be condescending, i condescend. acting like you, or wherever you got your info from, is some sort of 'wellspring of irrefutable knowledge' is pretty damn ridiculous--and condescending. telling someone they are both right and wrong like you're the authority on this subject is also condescending.

but yeah, i was condescending.

please though, go ahead and enlighten me and the rest of the forum and define 'galaxy level' powa! and its meaning.

as far as odin being premiere in that 'tier'? unknown, since he's never had a full on battle with zeus, so even that assumption may be faulty. we know zelia took down odin pretty easily at one point, so maybe she should have been considered the top? who knows. the definition of 'skyfather' is one thor himself has used in comics, on panel, when meeting other pantheon heads. so it isn't really open for interpretation.

wow such amazing mental gymnastics, i never not once said or even implied that that i have a "wellspring of irrefutable knowledge" shadowfyre said that skyfather was a title and not a term of power, which is not true, as the links i posted say otherwise, plus t ive seen the term used on every othercomicbook debate site as a term for power, as well as status. thus my sample size and "wellspring of irrefutable knowledge" is bigger and more widespread than yours after all you yourself have said youve never seen the term used that way, when in fact it has. for years. odin is the premier skyfather, based on on panel showings, hes head hancho. we base "skyfather level" based on odin because hes has the most feats of his tier. and just because odin lost to zelia doesnt make her top dog, EVERY character loses fights, thats just the nature of fiction, and action based fiction. hell superman koed himself flying into a wooden fence, that fence is now high herald, silver get whooped by a random alien spaceship, that ship is now the top herald, going by your logic.

Originally posted by Phil


Anyway, once we got past skyfathers and into abstracts, the herald-levelers need a plot device to win or can at best hurt them . Trans-levelers can more visibly rock them , while skyfathers can go at it but eventually lose or flat out be portrayed as vastly inferior .

Overall, I think we can find a rough outline, but there are exceptions, of course. The abstract tier is just so broad, though. An average Galactus represents the lower-end of the tier, cube beings(ie. Kubik and Shaper of Worlds) represent the middle of the tier, and upper-echelon Celestials/LT/Beyonders represent the higher-end of the tier.

That's why Odin can do well against Galactus in an extended battle, but is laughably inferior to Celestials, for example.

If we're going for thoroughness, there should really be a "low/mid/high" abstract tier, like there is for heralds.

Originally posted by leonidas
@phil: seriously, the whole idea of using terms like that to define power levels is..crazy sh!t.
Add "destroying planets" as a criteria.

Strangely enough, only Silver Surfer and Gladiator are beneficiaries of that rule.

Originally posted by Galan007
The abstract tier is just so broad, though. An average Galactus represents the lower-end of the tier. Cube beings(ie. Kubik and Shaper of Worlds) represent the middle of the tier, and upper-echelon Celestials/LT/Beyonders represent the higher-end of the tier.

That's why Odin can do well against Galactus in an extended battle, but is laughably inferior to Celestials, for example. yeah.

Abstract tier is like the herald tier - there's low, middle and high, with significant space in between.

Galactus is the Hulk of the abstract tier though - he can take gangs of Celestials, or he can be headbutted by Odin, depending on how hungry he feels.

lets be honest here, the only reason you guys dont want skyfather to be galaxy level is because the opponents you claim superman has beaten and or harmed wouldnt be skyfather anymore.

Originally posted by Phil
Galactus is the Hulk of the abstract tier though - he can take gangs of Celestials, or he can be headbutted by Odin, depending on how hungry he feels.

We saw as much when he fought the Mad Celestials after amping on 4 worlds. This ability was even more pronounced during The Black Celestial arc, when he was absorbing absolutely everything(time/space/matter/energy/etc.), as well as Celestials, like pieces of candy.

If he were ranked properly in an abstract tiers thread, there should be an asterisk next to his name for sure. Like you said, his power has no upper-end cap.

Originally posted by ghostman
wow such amazing mental gymnastics, i never not once said or even implied that that i have a "wellspring of irrefutable knowledge" shadowfyre said that skyfather was a title and not a term of power, which is not true, as the links i posted say otherwise, plus t ive seen the term used on every othercomicbook debate site as a term for power, as well as status. thus my sample size and "wellspring of irrefutable knowledge" is bigger and more widespread than yours after all you yourself have said youve never seen the term used that way, when in fact it has. for years. odin is the premier skyfather, based on on panel showings, hes head hancho. we base "skyfather level" based on odin because hes has the most feats of his tier. and just because odin lost to zelia doesnt make her top dog, EVERY character loses fights, thats just the nature of fiction, and action based fiction. hell superman koed himself flying into a wooden fence, that fence is now high herald, silver get whooped by a random alien spaceship, that ship is now the top herald, going by your logic.

you're acting like the links you posted are...canon or something. they are nothing more than random thoughts by other fans. and if the sample you're drawing from is full of a bunch of dummies (general term, not pointing anyone out in particular) then who gives a sh!t? i'll take one intelligent opinion over the opinion of a 100 morons.

as far as 'galaxy level' you've still not gone ahead and defined it i see....

and sure, odin IS generally viewed as the top of that tier, but his station is not definite, (jane thor>skyfather now?) and the term skyfather still technically refers to head of a pantheon. just so happens that WITH that position, comes a certain degree of power. but that 'power level' is pretty undefined at time and isn't always viewed the same in both universes. dc's odin is a skyfather and at one time he and all the other pantheons and their heads were scared sh!tless of darkseid. hell, ds killed several of them. yet here you're hard-pressed to find anyone that will say he's more powerful than thanos, who is demonstrably below odin. this delineation you and apparently others in other forums are striving for is pointless and nonsensical. as far as lowballing like you're trying to do to make your point--no sh!t characters lose. but superman ko'ing himself on a fence does not affect his standing overall at all. odin has never battled other skyfathers, he simply has far more appearances and hence more feats, and his position at the 'top' of this 'tier' reflects that, more than it reflects his power relative to other skyfathers--because we don't know how he stacks up relatively. except against zelia.

and if i've not heard, or rarely heard the term galaxy level--that's because it is rarely used around here. and there's a good reason for that.

Originally posted by ghostman
lets be honest here, the only reason you guys dont want skyfather to be galaxy level is because the opponents you claim superman has beaten and or harmed wouldnt be skyfather anymore.

agenda revealed.

@galan: galactus really should have a tier to himself. i'm still not convinced he's an abstract--not by the strict definition of embodying a concept at least. i mean, were galactus to die, the universe wouldn't fill the vacuum to replace him as it would do for other abstract representations. he's a physical being still--i think. i know he has employed m-bodies in the past though, and i know he's been viewed differently through the eyes of different species, so....he really is a unique character in marvel. certainly his fluctuation in power level is as wide, or wider, than any characters' in marvel.

Originally posted by leonidas
you're acting like the links you posted are...canon or something. they are nothing more than random thoughts by other fans. and if the sample you're drawing from is full of a bunch of dummies (general term, not pointing anyone out in particular) then who gives a sh!t? i'll take one intelligent opinion over the opinion of a 100 morons.

as far as 'galaxy level' you've still not gone ahead and defined it i see....

and sure, odin IS generally viewed as the top of that tier, but his station is not definite, (jane thor>skyfather now?) and the term skyfather still technically refers to head of a pantheon. just so happens that WITH that position, comes a certain degree of power. but that 'power level' is pretty undefined at time and isn't always viewed the same in both universes. dc's odin is a skyfather and at one time he and all the other pantheons and their heads were scared sh!tless of darkseid. hell, ds killed several of them. yet here you're hard-pressed to find anyone that will say he's more powerful than thanos, who is demonstrably below odin. this delineation you and apparently others in other forums are striving for is pointless and nonsensical. as far as lowballing like you're trying to do to make your point--no sh!t characters lose. but superman ko'ing himself on a fence does not affect his standing overall at all. odin has never battled other skyfathers, he simply has far more appearances and hence more feats, and his position at the 'top' of this 'tier' reflects that, more than it reflects his power relative to other skyfathers--because we don't know how he stacks up relatively. except against zelia.

and if i've not heard, or rarely heard the term galaxy level--that's because it is rarely used around here. and there's a good reason for that.


alright man, im just letting dudes know that skyfather is more than just a title

Originally posted by Galan007


We saw as much when he fought the Mad Celestials after amping on 4 worlds. This ability was even more pronounced during The Black Celestial arc, when he was absorbing absolutely everything(time/space/matter/energy/etc.), as well as Celestials, like pieces of candy.

If he were ranked properly in an abstract tiers thread, there should be an asterisk next to his name for sure. Like you said, his power has no upper-end cap.

Yes, although I have noticed some wanting to peg down Galactus into a box. The variability in his powerset is part of the character and he is written according to what the story needs.

I also don't like the "herald" and "trans" tiers. When I hear the term herald I just think of the actual heralds of Galactus. I would prefer to use specific characters as benchmarks. So you have your Superman level beings. Then a few tiers from that you have Thanos. Then you have those characters that are above Thanos, but not quite actually cosmics themselves(like Sentry at full power). Then you just have the cosmics, low end cosmics or high end. Or somewhere in the middle. This way you don't need to take into account abstracts and stuff, since they just fall under the cosmic category. The low end of the cosmic scale has people that have powers that are galactic in scale and the high ends are obviously going to be universal or beyond. So I'd call Odin a low level cosmic. Lucifer Morningstar would be a high end cosmic.

Though instead of using Superman specifically you could just use terms like low end class 100's, high end class 100's, etc.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
True.

I'd respect Batman a lot more if they just came out and said he was a God.

It's impossible to suspend disbelief with him otherwise.

Yep, which is why I laugh when I see say they don't like the character of Superman due to being too powerful, but they have no problems with Batman.

Skyfather level was coined due to odin,he is the upper benchmark,if you can't matcch his power,or come even close,you are usually just seen as a high trans.

Originally posted by ghostman
alright man, im just letting dudes know that skyfather is more than just a title

fair enuff. i likely took it a bit further than needed.

So where would you place "skyfathers" in general? Should for example Zeus be considered his equal despite his lack of feats? Someone mentioned CK controlling him and him knocking Galactus on his ass but iirc and correct me if Im wrong Zeus was amped. Other than a few godhead council meetings and a minor confrontation he had with Odin i dont really have much to go on. People use the owning of Hulk as a bench mark but plenty of trans tiers should be able to replicate said feat. Same could be said of elder gods..some cosmics etc

from all appearances, odin seems to consider zeus an equal or at least a near equal... i don't think you can place them 'generally'. i think you need to be more specific. around the level of odin i'd put beings like dormmamu or the watcher. the stranger would be below them but likely above thanos maybe, but his power can fluctuate pretty wildly. at times a watcher appears to maybe be above odin, but i think in generally they are close. mephisto is another who would be close imo, but slightly below odin and dormammu. that;s all just opinion based on my knowledge of the characters, and others may disagree. but i don't know any other way to place anyone, except for relative next to each other. shrug

Once again, Zeus was not amped, or at least not substantially so according to Pak.

Pak said that was simply Zeus operating at full power there. Chaos King made him go all out.

Zeus was just a meat suit, still operating under his own limits.

Originally posted by leonidas
@galan: galactus really should have a tier to himself. i'm still not convinced he's an abstract--not by the strict definition of embodying a concept at least. i mean, were galactus to die, the universe wouldn't fill the vacuum to replace him as it would do for other abstract representations. he's a physical being still--i think. i know he has employed m-bodies in the past though, and i know he's been viewed differently through the eyes of different species, so....he really is a unique character in marvel. certainly his fluctuation in power level is as wide, or wider, than any characters' in marvel. As is the case with Skyfathers: when I think of characters in the abstract tier, I think of their power--not necessarily their role/status. And by that definition, Galactus is in the abstract tier of power, on average.

I mean, LT isn't technically an abstract being either--though I still group him in that tier... Albeit at the upper-end of it.

Originally posted by Galan007
As is the case with Skyfathers: when I think of characters in the abstract tier, I think of their power--not necessarily their role/status. And by that definition, Galactus is in the abstract tier of power, on average.

I mean, LT isn't technically an abstract being either--though I still group him in that tier... Albeit at the upper-end of it.

oh, i wasn't arguing galactus in that company at all--power-wise for sure he should be with the big boys--most of the time. and you're right about lt--he's another puzzle. i thought lt was said to have represented judgement at one point, across the mutliverse. but not sure he is the literal embodiment or not. i think i had this discussion once with mrm. trying to ferret out of the nature of lt and whether he was a true abstract or not. i guess now that i think about it, there are several that fit the non-abstract-abstract category: abraxas, shaper of worlds, phoenix, maybe eon? hell, even mephisto has been alluded to representing the concept of evil, but he's not an abstract in the technical sense. those are just off the top of my head. probably lots of others in there as well.... differentiating between 'tiers' is trick at best. not sure where the realm of 'skyfather' would give way to 'abstract' if that's how one wants to look at it. you'd need someone just beyond odin i guess. uatu maybe? i think abstract is the wrong term. maybe a 'cosmic' tier or, 'higher order cosmic'? shrug

I think it's possible that Odin and Zeus are really far more powerful than the other skyfathers, and belong in a category somewhere between skyfather and abstract.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Once again, Zeus was not amped, or at least not substantially so according to Pak.

Pak said that was simply Zeus operating at full power there. Chaos King made him go all out.

Zeus was just a meat suit, still operating under his own limits.

i read that as well.

problem is, an undefined amp, is still an amp, so most are wary about using it as a feat for zeus.

as for odin and zeus being greater than the others: not so sure. i think vishnu is typically considered an equal to them as well, and i think, IN GENERAL (those feats may at times say otherwise) the elder gods are beyond the skyfathers and some of the lower cosmics.

Originally posted by Galan007
As is the case with Skyfathers: when I think of characters in the abstract tier, I think of their power--not necessarily their role/status. And by that definition, Galactus is in the abstract tier of power, on average.

I mean, LT isn't technically an abstract being either--though I still group him in that tier... Albeit at the upper-end of it. edited true

Link to what?

Originally posted by leonidas
i read that as well.

problem is, an undefined amp, is still an amp, so most are wary about using it as a feat for zeus.

as for odin and zeus being greater than the others: not so sure. i think vishnu is typically considered an equal to them as well, and i think, IN GENERAL (those feats may at times say otherwise) the elder gods are beyond the skyfathers and some of the lower cosmics.

Either u or CC gotta link to Paks comments?

Originally posted by Galan007
Link to what?

Mis-post. Was quoting u and leo at the same time

Originally posted by leonidas
oh, i wasn't arguing galactus in that company at all--power-wise for sure he should be with the big boys--most of the time. and you're right about lt--he's another puzzle. i thought lt was said to have represented judgement at one point, across the mutliverse. but not sure he is the literal embodiment or not. i think i had this discussion once with mrm. trying to ferret out of the nature of lt and whether he was a true abstract or not. i guess now that i think about it, there are several that fit the non-abstract-abstract category: abraxas, shaper of worlds, phoenix, maybe eon? hell, even mephisto has been alluded to representing the concept of evil, but he's not an abstract in the technical sense. those are just off the top of my head. probably lots of others in there as well.... differentiating between 'tiers' is trick at best. not sure where the realm of 'skyfather' would give way to 'abstract' if that's how one wants to look at it. you'd need someone just beyond odin i guess. uatu maybe? i think abstract is the wrong term. maybe a 'cosmic' tier or, 'higher order cosmic'? shrug

Tbh, I think any powers beyond Odin would fall under the 'abstract' tier by default. After all, there really doesn't seem to be *that* large of a gap between an average Galactus and Odin. Galactus is more powerful in the end, but Odin is definitely capable of making him work his cosmic ass off for the win.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Mis-post. Was quoting u and leo at the same time Cool.

Unless I am mistaken,a skyfather level is one who can operate at small galaxy level at least?

Zeus has been stated to be odin's equal though,as for their feats against galactus
Galactus was also hungry throughout the chaos king arc,so that dosent really mean much,and galactus was back up the next page or two. As for odin giving galan a fight,he got KO'd when he himself rammed into galactus,galactus was briefly stunned,but was unhurt,odin had to go to the odin sleep,galactus didn't even use any cosmic attack iirc. This is a hungry galactus for a potentially amped zeus and a galactus who fed on a dead planet for odin.

Galactus was hungry in the Chaos King showing, but Zeus' showing was also MUCH better than Odin's showing against Galactus, so it evens out in the end. It's not like the Galactus that Odin fought was fully sated either. Odin ko'd himself and ko'd Galactus as well. They were both knocked out and fell to Earth out of orbit. Galactus recovered first, so he technically beat Odin, whereas he lost to a slightly amped Zeus with ease.

Odin was also at his Giant size. Whereas Zeus' punches were at human sizes, and they were still rocking Galactus, made his face twisted.

Even still, one writer's hungry Galactus can be more powerful than another writer's fed Galactus.

Pak's Galactus, even though hungry, reckoned Zeus' was hurting him easier than any skyfather should be able to. So if Pak replaced Odin with Zeus in that scene, he would have done no better than Zeus did.

Originally posted by Surtur
The KMC version of Superman covers the tiers yes this is correct.

Seriously, Shut Up!

There is no tricky ground.

Just imagine it takes him a little longer to do the same thing.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
There is no tricky ground.

Just imagine it takes him a little longer to do the same thing.

How so..when he had power not his own

Originally posted by Sin I AM
How so..when he had power not his own You can say more that 50% atleast was his own power

("most was his own power"

Note Galactus uses the term "Skyfather" in the same way we do, as a powerlevel. There you go kmc.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Galactus was hungry in the Chaos King showing, but Zeus' showing was also MUCH better than Odin's showing against Galactus, so it evens out in the end. It's not like the Galactus that Odin fought was fully sated either. Odin ko'd himself and ko'd Galactus as well. They were both knocked out and fell to Earth out of orbit. Galactus recovered first, so he technically beat Odin, whereas he lost to a slightly amped Zeus with ease.

Odin was also at his Giant size. Whereas Zeus' punches were at human sizes, and they were still rocking Galactus, made his face twisted.

Even still, one writer's hungry Galactus can be more powerful than another writer's fed Galactus.

Pak's Galactus, even though hungry, reckoned Zeus' was hurting him easier than any skyfather should be able to. So if Pak replaced Odin with Zeus in that scene, he would have done no better than Zeus did. lol at Pak's Galactus being anything worth mentioning, even possibly higher than another writer's fed Galactus. Most of Galactus' low showings have come from Pak since the last decade.

The guy wrote an amped Zeus beating a hungry Galactus and then backtracked and forgot he put Chaos King and his entire army inside Zeus, yet he was only taking a "small amp"? Why would he even be amped at all if we follow Pak's logic and why would it be small?

Even still, Galactus cracked Zeus. Literally cracked him to a point where a dive from Herc peeled the rest of his shell off. That's not something normal Zeus withstands. Being a fully functional cracked being.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
lol at Pak's Galactus being anything worth mentioning, even possibly higher than another writer's fed Galactus. Most of Galactus' low showings have come from Pak since the last decade.

The guy wrote an amped Zeus beating a hungry Galactus and then backtracked and forgot he put Chaos King and his entire army inside Zeus, yet he was only taking a "small amp"? Why would he even be amped at all if we follow Pak's logic and why would it be small?

Even still, Galactus cracked Zeus. Literally cracked him to a point where a dive from Herc peeled the rest of his shell off. That's not something normal Zeus withstands. Being a fully functional cracked being. If it wasn't a small amp, chaos king would of killed Galactus with a single blast.

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
If it wasn't a small amp, chaos king would of killed Galactus with a single blast. Good point
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Durability/ChaosWar3025.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Durability/ChaosWar3026.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Durability/ChaosWar4011.jpg

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images/attachment/goku-vs-superman-vs-naruto-vs-ichigo-vs-luffy-vs-hst-vs-dragon-ball-z-vs-bleach-x-35492.jpg

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images/attachment/goku-vs-superman-vs-naruto-vs-ichigo-vs-luffy-vs-hst-vs-dragon-ball-z-vs-bleach-x-35492.jpg I don't even understand what that scan is supposed to prove. Not only is Galactus resisting him and not dying but he further drained himself opening up an "infinite" tunnel to a bubble universe for a lengthy period of time.

Plus in both sets Chaos King was heavily amped past when he was inside Zeus.

Also this proves the Chaos King was Multiversal and was affecting All Universes



http://m.imgur.com/ieqCQZr?r

Originally posted by Sin I AM
So where would you place "skyfathers" in general? Should for example Zeus be considered his equal despite his lack of feats? Someone mentioned CK controlling him and him knocking Galactus on his ass but iirc and correct me if Im wrong Zeus was amped. Other than a few godhead council meetings and a minor confrontation he had with Odin i dont really have much to go on. People use the owning of Hulk as a bench mark but plenty of trans tiers should be able to replicate said feat. Same could be said of elder gods..some cosmics etc

I think Zeus could probably be considered a low end skyfather. I think the most powerful skyfathers are low end cosmics, but the weaker ones..some aren't even that far above guys like Thanos. Also yeah Zeus was being amped when he fought Galactus. This is why Galactus was shocked when Zeus survived his attack.

Surtur also destroyed a galaxy

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Surtur also destroyed a galaxy

Under his own power or with the aid of a magical artifact?

Originally posted by Surtur
Under his own power or with the aid of a magical artifact? Under his own power

Well he is supposed to be around Odin's level so that makes sense I suppose.

And Hera with Zeus power created a pocket universe

Originally posted by Surtur
Well he is supposed to be around Odin's level so that makes sense I suppose. Yea, he destroyed the galaxy and harnessed all its energy to create his Twilight Sword

Off topic does anyone know if the comic with ares and the twilight sword is Canon?

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Superman's tier is 'Powerful as he needs to be' tier.

Also known as Ultimate Hero tier, which he alone occupies.

That's Hulk, Thor, and Hyperion tier as well.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
So where would you place "skyfathers" in general? Should for example Zeus be considered his equal despite his lack of feats? Someone mentioned CK controlling him and him knocking Galactus on his ass but iirc and correct me if Im wrong Zeus was amped. Other than a few godhead council meetings and a minor confrontation he had with Odin i dont really have much to go on. People use the owning of Hulk as a bench mark but plenty of trans tiers should be able to replicate said feat. Same could be said of elder gods..some cosmics etc

We knew this was about Zeus AND Hulk. Trans tiers has fought Hulk (and not Pak Hulk either) and failed to come anywhere close to what Zeus did.

Originally posted by carver9
We knew this was about Zeus AND Hulk. Trans tiers has fought Hulk (and not Pak Hulk either) and failed to come anywhere close to what Zeus did.

We?

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Superman's tier is 'Powerful as he needs to be' tier.

Also known as Ultimate Hero tier, which he alone occupies.
This is the tier every main character occupies.

It's the most crowded tier in fiction.

Originally posted by krisblaze
This is the tier every main character occupies.

It's the most crowded tier in fiction. No, it's not.

Superman beats skyfathers under his own power, without extenuating circumstances (i.e. amp, favorable environment etc.). He does this frequently.

Superman beats trans on his own under his own power, without extenuating circumstances (i.e. amp, favorable environment etc.). He does this frequently.

The rest of the characters, don't.
The thing is, he isn't portrayed as being outclassed when he moves up tiers. Surfer? Thor? They always are. They're always fighting an uphill battle. Sometimes they manage to be put in a position where they can plot device their way out , but they're never portrayed as actually superior to skyfathers.

Superman is.
He needs no special circumstances, tricks or bullshits. He straight up overpowers them.

All Skyfathers are equal, but some Skyfathers are more equal than others.

Originally posted by Magnificent M
All Skyfathers are equal, but some Skyfathers are more equal than others.

Yeah, I'd pretty much say that Zeus/Odin will almost always be portrayed as equalish, with a high chance that the more unknown the other patheon's skyfathers are , the more likely Odin/Zeus will be portrayed as more powerful.

Read more manga.

Or just read some spider-man comics.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Read more manga.

Or just read some spider-man comics. I'm only a dragon ball type of guy, sorry. And that manga specifically shows the main heroes needing extra-training and/or fussion to take the villains that are out of their class.



Spiderman I already said in another thread is the dude, along with Superman and Hulk, who moves around the tiers.

Quote's not working for some reason

At any rate, a hero being as strong as he needs to be is not an attribute that only Superman has. Like you said, both Spider-man and Hulk do this all the time.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Quote's not working for some reason

At any rate, a hero being as strong as he needs to be is not an attribute that only Superman has. Like you said, both Spider-man and Hulk do this all the time. It's my username. Sometime you can quote it, sometimes you can't.

Yes, I agree, but there are a handful few who actually go thorugh the tiers without bullshits and tricks and only on raw power.

It helps that Superman and Spiderman are the poster-boys for holding back, while Hulk is simply built into his powerset.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Simply untrue. Surfer, Thor, Wonderwoman, Hulk, etc. do so. Characters are inconsistent in comics so quit trying to make it fall into line with your perspective. It doesn't. Superman is like the rest despite yout insistence to say otherwise.

You lower the intelligence of this forum with every post.

Show me comprable instances of: Surfer, Thor, Wonder Woman, and Hulk having comprable showings going up the tiers UNAMPED like Superman.

You can't because the canon won't support your stupidity but I'll wait.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
You lower the intelligence of this forum with every post.

Show me comprable instances of: Surfer, Thor, Wonder Woman, and Hulk having comprable showings going up the tiers UNAMPED like Superman.

You can't because the canon won't support your stupidity but I'll wait.

??

Thor's beaten Pluto, Mephisto, Shiva and Hel.

Originally posted by krisblaze
??

Thor's beaten Pluto, Mephisto, Shiva and Hel.
Hela lost to freaking DARWIN. She jobs a lot. Same with Pluto, he couldn't even handle Enchantress' sister Lorillei (or however you spell her name). Thor beat Shiva because Shiva was WEAKENED in Asgard. Mephisto is a known liar, his 'loss' to Thor is suspect. This is the same guy that caught Mjolnir, slagged it, then recreated it and threw it back at Thor.

Originally posted by zopzop
Hela lost to freaking DARWIN. She jobs a lot. Same with Pluto, he couldn't even handle Enchantress' sister Lorillei (or however you spell her name). Thor beat Shiva because Shiva was WEAKENED in Asgard. Mephisto is a known liar, his 'loss' to Thor is suspect. This is the same guy that caught Mjolnir, slagged it, then recreated it and threw it back at Thor.

While I am the KING OF CANON your knowledge NEARLY matches mine!

Originally posted by zopzop
Hela lost to freaking DARWIN. She jobs a lot. Same with Pluto, he couldn't even handle Enchantress' sister Lorillei (or however you spell her name). Thor beat Shiva because Shiva was WEAKENED in Asgard. Mephisto is a known liar, his 'loss' to Thor is suspect. This is the same guy that caught Mjolnir, slagged it, then recreated it and threw it back at Thor.

He didn't even beat Shiva, it was retconned into being Indra, a lesser God, disguised as Shiva.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
He didn't even beat Shiva, it was retconned into being Indra, a lesser God, disguised as Shiva.
And the only reason he even beat that "lesser" God is because he was fighting in Asgard where Indra was weakened.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
While I am the KING OF CANON your knowledge NEARLY matches mine!
Finally! Praise from Caesar!

Originally posted by zopzop
Hela lost to freaking DARWIN. She jobs a lot. Same with Pluto, he couldn't even handle Enchantress' sister Lorillei (or however you spell her name). Thor beat Shiva because Shiva was WEAKENED in Asgard. Mephisto is a known liar, his 'loss' to Thor is suspect. This is the same guy that caught Mjolnir, slagged it, then recreated it and threw it back at Thor.

Within the context of those stories it was clearly a case of Thor swinging out of his paygrade.

Their subsequent jobbing under different writers doesn't somehow mean Thor's not consistently beating people above him.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
We?

Come on Sin. It's obvious why you made this thread. To lessen Zeus tier and to make Hulk showing against Zeus look far worse. It's ok, everyone has a character they do like this.. yours is Hulk.

Originally posted by carver9
Come on Sin. It's obvious why you made this thread. To lessen Zeus tier and to make Hulk showing against Zeus look far worse. It's ok, everyone has a character they do like this.. yours is Hulk.

Y must you come for me? It's bad enough i have people in here arguing Superman. Now you wanna jump on hulks dick? Noone gives a flying phuck about hulk carver. He hasnt had a decent arc since planet hulk.

I made this thread because Zeus Vishnu Osiris Yu-Huang Shiva etc have relatively little to no feats in comparison to Odin (who himself has few). So my question is how do you rank them accordingly. Im NOT rao..I'm not saint...my e dick doesnt get hard when your virgin pussy ass waltzes in a thread prime for phuckin.. with a thousand and one scans and zero common phuckin sense. I could care less..because being a fumb ass is your thing. You get off on getting told how phucking stupid you are...now contribute with knowledge or go argue 133 hercs or some shit

Originally posted by zopzop
Hela lost to freaking DARWIN. She jobs a lot. Same with Pluto, he couldn't even handle Enchantress' sister Lorillei (or however you spell her name). Thor beat Shiva because Shiva was WEAKENED in Asgard. Mephisto is a known liar, his 'loss' to Thor is suspect. This is the same guy that caught Mjolnir, slagged it, then recreated it and threw it back at Thor.

He didnt beat shiva. And Iirc marvel stopped putting the hindu gods in matches after that because of religious outcry

Originally posted by Sin I AM
So where would you place "skyfathers" in general? Should for example Zeus be considered his equal despite his lack of feats? Someone mentioned CK controlling him and him knocking Galactus on his ass but iirc and correct me if Im wrong Zeus was amped. Other than a few godhead council meetings and a minor confrontation he had with Odin i dont really have much to go on. People use the owning of Hulk as a bench mark but plenty of trans tiers should be able to replicate said feat. Same could be said of elder gods..some cosmics etc

I like you sin, that's why I come at you with posts like this. You're entertaining to debate with, even during your rage fits. The post above is the reason I questioned you. I'm not saying it's fact what I said about you but this post is suspect. Doesn't matter, Zeus and Odin are equals along with a lot of other skyfathers.

And thor only beat pluto in the Blood nd thunder arc with a fair amount of PIS,pluto soloed asgard himself once

Originally posted by carver9
I like you sin, that's why I come at you with posts like this. You're entertaining to debate with, even during your rage fits. The post above is the reason I questioned you. I'm not saying it's fact what I said about you but this post is suspect. Doesn't matter, Zeus and Odin are equals along with a lot of other skyfathers.

God you are annoying. Look lets put it in terms you might understand. Savage, Mindless, Green Scar, Professor, Fixit are all personalities of Banner. Now we all know their strength and weaknesses. They are not one and the same although they're technically the same "hulk". Now take Devil Hulk. We havent seen Banner transform into this incarnation yet. Is it safe to assume he starts out at the same power level? Its hinted that he's stronger than all the hulks but it hasnt been shown.

That's what i getting at. At what point do we stop adhering to lip service and what point do we look at actual on panel proof. Im not saying I have to see Brahma shake a galaxy to prove he's Odins equal. But id like to see something...savvy?

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
You lower the intelligence of this forum with every post.

Show me comprable instances of: Surfer, Thor, Wonder Woman, and Hulk having comprable showings going up the tiers UNAMPED like Superman.

You can't because the canon won't support your stupidity but I'll wait. Galactus, Cronus, Heart of the Monster, etc.

technically speaking is rao considered a skyfather....? curious where some would place him.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Y must you come for me? It's bad enough i have people in here arguing Superman. Now you wanna jump on hulks dick? Noone gives a flying phuck about hulk carver. He hasnt had a decent arc since planet hulk.

I made this thread because Zeus Vishnu Osiris Yu-Huang Shiva etc have relatively little to no feats in comparison to Odin (who himself has few). So my question is how do you rank them accordingly. Im NOT rao..I'm not saint...my e dick doesnt get hard when your virgin pussy ass waltzes in a thread prime for phuckin.. with a thousand and one scans and zero common phuckin sense. I could care less..because being a fumb ass is your thing. You get off on getting told how phucking stupid you are...now contribute with knowledge or go argue 133 hercs or some shit

Don't you think you could've used some lube? Savage.

Originally posted by zopzop
Hela lost to freaking DARWIN. She jobs a lot. Same with Pluto, he couldn't even handle Enchantress' sister Lorillei (or however you spell her name). Thor beat Shiva because Shiva was WEAKENED in Asgard. Mephisto is a known liar, his 'loss' to Thor is suspect. This is the same guy that caught Mjolnir, slagged it, then recreated it and threw it back at Thor.

Since Thor is much more powerful then Darwin then Hela jobbing to Darwin doesn't actually mean she jobbed to Thor.

I also can't help but notice people try to go out of their way to dismiss feats of Thor beating powerful beings..but if someone does the same for Superman it's like it is a mortal sin.

Originally posted by Surtur
Since Thor is much more powerful then Darwin then Hela jobbing to Darwin doesn't actually mean she jobbed to Thor.

I also can't help but notice people try to go out of their way to dismiss feats of Thor beating powerful beings..but if someone does the same for Superman it's like it is a mortal sin.

Isnt that a high outlier for darwin though? I wouldn't place that as norm

Originally posted by quanchi112
Galactus, Cronus, Heart of the Monster, etc.

1. Galactus- You pick a character whose powers vary vastly. What has Thor done with a fully fed Galactus?

I know the answer.

2. Heart of The Monster- A character who defines the dynamic power concept. Dark Dimension + shared feat= suspect.

4. Cronus- You can't be this damn stupid!

Originally posted by Sin I AM
God you are annoying. Look lets put it in terms you might understand. Savage, Mindless, Green Scar, Professor, Fixit are all personalities of Banner. Now we all know their strength and weaknesses. They are not one and the same although they're technically the same "hulk". Now take Devil Hulk. We havent seen Banner transform into this incarnation yet. Is it safe to assume he starts out at the same power level? Its hinted that he's stronger than all the hulks but it hasnt been shown.

That's what i getting at. At what point do we stop adhering to lip service and what point do we look at actual on panel proof. Im not saying I have to see Brahma shake a galaxy to prove he's Odins equal. But id like to see something...savvy?

So what tier is Zeus since he is ftless? Low meta...hell is he even Herald level? He doesnt have fts, remember? Zeus was creating monsters that were 133 times more powerful than Hercules. That alone is trans tier power (the monster). He over powered Mjlonir, something that even Odin couldnt do. I can keep going but, whats the point.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Don't you think you could've used some lube? Savage.


Tore Carvster a new one.




Best part is when she goes... "savvy?"

Arrrrrr.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17


Tore Carvster a new one.




Best part is when she goes... "savvy?"

Arrrrrr.

It was epic indeed.

Sin's giving Carver a taste of his medicine. She's coming at Carver harder than the last time he snuck into the local daycare.

Originally posted by carver9
So what tier is Zeus since he is ftless? Low meta...hell is he even Herald level? He doesnt have fts, remember? Zeus was creating monsters that were 133 times more powerful than Hercules. That alone is trans tier power (the monster). He over powered Mjlonir, something that even Odin couldnt do. I can keep going but, whats the point.

Skyfather
Don't care about 133 hercs
He didnt over power mjolnir


Stop being a bitkh when people question power levels. All Im asking is at what point do we leave hype out and focus on feats that show merit. For example Shiva (and the entire hindu pantheon) will never be shown in combat. Due to marvel not wanting to offend religious groups (especially after the thor loss) so how do we measure their power levels?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Skyfather
Don't care about 133 hercs
He didnt over power mjolnir


Stop being a bitkh when people question power levels. All Im asking is at what point do we leave hype out and focus on feats that show merit. For example Shiva (and the entire hindu pantheon) will never be shown in combat. Due to marvel not wanting to offend religious groups (especially after the thor loss) so how do we measure their power levels?

He created a trans plus tier character. That speaks volumes.

Lol...so this is not a catch?

http://i.imgur.com/ffHnaO9.png

Why is Thor amazed when the hammer is in Zeus hand?

Lets not troll.

Originally posted by carver9
He created a trans plus tier character. That speaks volumes.

Lol...so this is not a catch?

http://i.imgur.com/ffHnaO9.png

Why is Thor amazed when the hammer is in Zeus hand?

Lets not troll.

He stopped its forward momentum. That's it. When he wanted it back he couldn't stop shit. Learn to read

Originally posted by Sin I AM
He stopped its forward momentum. That's it. When he wanted it back he couldn't stop shit. Learn to read
True he couldn't stop it from going back to THor but Thor was amazed he could even halt it for an instant :
http://s23.postimg.org/bak1e8cpz/Thor_Mjolnir100_Summoning_Annual08.jpg

For comparison's sake, look at how Mephisto deals with Mjolnir :
http://s7.postimg.org/aillwewif/Thorvs_Mephisto09.jpg
Even if, as some Thor fans have argued, Mephisto is a liar and him slagging and recreating Mjolnir was an illusion. How do you explain him holding the hammer? Thor threw the hammer it hits Mephisto and it DOES NOT return to Thor's hand until after Mephisto lets go of it. They had an entire conversation and Mjolnir wasn't back in Thor's hand until Mephisto threw it back.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
He stopped its forward momentum. That's it. When he wanted it back he couldn't stop shit. Learn to read

Stopped its forward momentum? He held it long enough to complete a sentence. Thats more than stopping its momentum.

Doctor Spectrum actually contained it and Thor couldn't recall it. So did Ultimo.

Both for skyfathers.

Originally posted by zopzop
True he couldn't stop it from going back to THor but Thor was amazed he could even halt it for an instant :
http://s23.postimg.org/bak1e8cpz/Thor_Mjolnir100_Summoning_Annual08.jpg

For comparison's sake, look at how Mephisto deals with Mjolnir :
http://s7.postimg.org/aillwewif/Thorvs_Mephisto09.jpg
Even if, as some Thor fans have argued, Mephisto is a liar and him slagging and recreating Mjolnir was an illusion. How do you explain him holding the hammer? Thor threw the hammer it hits Mephisto and it DOES NOT return to Thor's hand until after Mephisto lets go of it. They had an entire conversation and Mjolnir wasn't back in Thor's hand until Mephisto threw it back.

Thor being shocked is cool and all but its not like zeus had the power to override it like say bor.


Ive always considered ths mephisto scene an illusion

Originally posted by carver9
Stopped its forward momentum? He held it long enough to complete a sentence. Thats more than stopping its momentum.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Doctor Spectrum actually contained it and Thor couldn't recall it. So did Ultimo.

Both for skyfathers.

So Thing can grab and hold on to Mjlonir? Hulk recently tried what Zeus did and failed.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Skyfather
Don't care about 133 hercs
He didnt over power mjolnir


Stop being a bitkh when people question power levels. All Im asking is at what point do we leave hype out and focus on feats that show merit. For example Shiva (and the entire hindu pantheon) will never be shown in combat. Due to marvel not wanting to offend religious groups (especially after the thor loss) so how do we measure their power levels?

While a lot would argue Odin is above Zeus in terms of feats, I seem to remember them clashing briefly in Fear Itself. They were portrayed equals in that scene. I think it was the tie-in Journey Into Mystery. The Thor and Hercules Encyclopedia Mythologica lists about 20+ Pantheons of Gods on Earth. I remember it mentioning that each head of a Pantheon are equal in power. This would mean that each Skydads are Odin's equal. Even the ones that are not known.

Isn't being able to hold up Thors hammer without it dropping to the ground "Overpowering the enchantment" Unless Zeus is worthy, but still. No Herald can catch Mjolnir, no Transiter

And I mean catch it and hold it up

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Isn't being able to hold up Thors hammer without it dropping to the ground "Overpowering the enchantment" Unless Zeus is worthy, but still. No Herald can catch Mjolnir, no Transiter

And I mean catch it and hold it up

It's a good feat but look at it subjectively. He is a skyfather so he should have added a new trophy to his war room. But Thor willed it back. If he truly overpowered the enchantment he wouldve palmed abd discarded it like Bor did. Imo he just stopped and held it..although briefly

Just because he is a skyfather dosent mean he can casually overturn the magic of another one. He grabbed and held it,but thor could will it back,he did overpower the enchantment,but not completely,plus I am sure he wasn't going all out there. Odin himself can't even lift the hammer itself, Bor could just have been deemed worthy though,or he is just that powerful,he IS odin's dad after all.

While no herald has outright palmed it,one has batted it aside though,

There are plenty of people who have stopped Mjolnir using all manner of devices/techniques.

It's not very consistent.

It also depends a lot on how hard Thor is trying.

Originally posted by krisblaze
There are plenty of people who have stopped Mjolnir using all manner of devices/techniques.

It's not very consistent.

It also depends a lot on how hard Thor is trying. but he used his simple hands

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
but he used his simple hands
Yes.

Zeus is powerful.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Yes.

Zeus is powerful. At least more powerful than the transtiers I think

Originally posted by zopzop
True he couldn't stop it from going back to THor but Thor was amazed he could even halt it for an instant :
http://s23.postimg.org/bak1e8cpz/Thor_Mjolnir100_Summoning_Annual08.jpg

For comparison's sake, look at how Mephisto deals with Mjolnir :
http://s7.postimg.org/aillwewif/Thorvs_Mephisto09.jpg
Even if, as some Thor fans have argued, Mephisto is a liar and him slagging and recreating Mjolnir was an illusion. How do you explain him holding the hammer? Thor threw the hammer it hits Mephisto and it DOES NOT return to Thor's hand until after Mephisto lets go of it. They had an entire conversation and Mjolnir wasn't back in Thor's hand until Mephisto threw it back.



Mephisto is far more powerful than many realize...

His desire get souls (which he would not obtain if going all out on people and killing them utterly) is the only thing that keeps him from completely owning 99.9% of the characters on Marvel Earth...

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Thor being shocked is cool and all but its not like zeus had the power to override it like say bor.


Ive always considered ths mephisto scene an illusion

So how did Mephisto get around Mjolnir not returning to Thors hand until Mephisto let go of it?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Skyfather. For years we've used this term to describe both power level and position in regards to figure heads of heavenly pantheons. But what does it mean? Are all sky daddies equal? Is Vishnu and Osiris up there with Darkseid? Is Zeus (despite lack of feats) truly Odins equal? We know that celestials arent all viewed as equals but in regards to "gods" i hear the opposite.

Oh and because I know someone will bicht about this being a vs thread.

Zeus
Osiris
Ares (DC)
Odin
Vishnu
Darkseid (pre-boot)
Highfather
King Thor
Shiva
Brahma...no holds barred fight. Neutral dimension

Excellent thread idea btw Sin I Am!

I havent read everything here, but will do so at some point...

Anyway, my 2 cents...


All Skyfathers are not created equal; IMHO, the tier should be divided into Low, Mid, and High...

What gets you into the tier are (again, in my minds eye):

1) Feats of raw power beyond what you expect to see from Trans Tier characters...

2) Consistent portrayals depicting one of being of Skyfather status (this gets Zeus in due to consistently being depicted as a peer to Odin; it also gets Vishnu from Thor 300 in despite being virtually featless)...

3) Being portrayed as being superior to either Thanos or Grandmaster (both of whom I'd place at the top of Trans or the very bottom of Skyfather)...


Meeting atleast 1 of those 3 gets you into the Skyfather tier as far as I'm concerned...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
So how did Mephisto get around Mjolnir not returning to Thors hand until Mephisto let go of it?
Yup. That's what makes the Mephisto feat so impressive. People get hung up on Mephisto slagging Mjolnir. That's nice, but Mjolnir's been destroyed/damaged many times before.

It's Mephisto overpowering the 'return to Thor' and 'worthiness' enchantments that's so damn impressive. He stopped the hammer from returning to Thor AND he held it despite OBVIOUSLY being unworthy.

Originally posted by zopzop
Yup. That's what makes the Mephisto feat so impressive. People get hung up on Mephisto slagging Mjolnir. That's nice, but Mjolnir's been destroyed/damaged many times before.

It's Mephisto overpowering the 'return to Thor' and 'worthiness' enchantments that's so damn impressive. He stopped the hammer from returning to Thor AND he held it despite OBVIOUSLY being unworthy.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Excellent thread idea btw Sin I Am!

I havent read everything here, but will do so at some point...

Anyway, my 2 cents...


All Skyfathers are not created equal; IMHO, the tier should be divided into Low, Mid, and High...

What gets you into the tier are (again, in my minds eye):

1) Consistent feats of raw power beyond what you expect to see from Trans Tier characters...

2) Consistent portrayals depicting one of being of Skyfather status (this gets Zeus in due to consistently being depicted as a peer to Odin; it also gets Vishnu from Thor 300 in despite being virtually featless)...

3) Being portrayed as being superior to either Thanos or Grandmaster (both of whom I'd place at the top of Trans or the very bottom of Skyfather)...


Meeting atleast 1 of those 3 gets you into the Skyfather tier as far as I'm concerned...

Fixed my own post; first word of bullet point #1 modified...

Mephisto was in his own realm, I would guess if Zeus was in Olympus he would of done better?

Thx lom


Iirc wasnt that whole slagging of mjolnir a dream or illusion

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Thx lom


Iirc wasnt that whole slagging of mjolnir a dream or illusion Someone said of his opinion it was.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Thx lom


Iirc wasnt that whole slagging of mjolnir a dream or illusion Never been confirmed. The only thing that gets pointed to is an illusion being shown to Thor in a seperate instance in that story.

So some Thor fans came to the conclusion that the story was made of illusions.

Maybe Mephisto messed with Thor's mind the entire time, making him think he threw the hammer, the catch, slagging etc, etc, etc.
But, Thor never tossed the hammer in the first place, he only thought he did due to mind screwery. *shrugs*

Maybe is a bad route to take when debating things in comics.

Hell lords(especially mephisto and pluto) are damn powerful in their realms.

Originally posted by Genii96
Hell lords(especially mephisto and pluto) are damn powerful in their realms.
Mephiso, yes. He's even one shotted a high herald outside his realm.

What's Marvel's Pluto done? I'm genuinely curious.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
While I am the KING OF BUTHOLES your knowledge NEARLY matches mine!

I Agree

Originally posted by zopzop
What's Marvel's Pluto done?

He once defeated The Stranger when they fought in Hades, although I remember reading or hearing somewhere that there was evidence that Stranger threw the fight on purpose...

He also gotten the upper hand against Thor...

Honestly though, I cant recall him doing a whole lot...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
He once defeated The Stranger when they fought in Hades, although I remember reading or hearing somewhere that there was evidence that Stranger threw the fight on purpose...

He also gotten the upper hand against Thor...

Honestly though, I cant recall him doing a whole lot... He threw it because they were too evenly matched iirc. Both kept drawing on infinite power.

It depends how you view it, but in any case it's still a really good feat for Pluto.

Originally posted by zopzop
Mephiso, yes. He's even one shotted a high herald outside his realm.

What's Marvel's Pluto done? I'm genuinely curious.
Repelled the stranger in his realm(,pluto noted that outside his realm,the outcome woyld be in doubt,but inside his realm,he couldn't even he labelled the stranger's attacks 'laughable')
He took his hits without flinching,

http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/scans7/MTIOAnn5_StrangerVsPluto.JPG

I don't have the entire fight tho.

In his realm,created a nether hole,which according to stranger,was soon about to collapse the universe,and then some(same issue where he beat the stranger,that's why the stranger came to his realm with hulk and the thing)

one shotted the defenders(surfer,hulk,namor,classic strange etc,3HH levels) outside his realm,one shotted classic strange in a magical contest(strange tried to use the eye of agamotto to beat him)
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/plutohades2.jpg
Also out of his realm.

, went into asgard to claim odin's soul (odin died) took down everyone(including thor) even with help from the fates,casually beat hela(in that same issue),they only drove him away when hela resurrected odin. (He physically dominated thor here as well)

During the trial of zeus in hades,he created a shade of hercules,which went toe to toe with the real one

He can also summon all deceased people in this realm to fight for him,even skyathers(he summoned zeus among others) during the chaos king era.

He and mephisto repelled dorammamu iirc

Oh,when he went to war with olympus,it was a stalemate them till ares joined them

Where would you put the Demogorge? He took on Mephisto, Pluto, Hela, and all the other Death Gods all at the same time and won.

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Where would you put the Demogorge? He took on Mephisto, Pluto, Hela, and all the other Death Gods all at the same time and won.

Demo is an elder god. Up there with gaea imo

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Demo is an elder god. Up there with gaea imo can gaea do to mephisto what demogorge did to him?

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Where would you put the Demogorge? He took on Mephisto, Pluto, Hela, and all the other Death Gods all at the same time and won.
Demorgoge is the epitome of being an elder god,much stronger than.gaea( who is weaker than set),he did kill ever elder god,save 5
However it should be noted that those hell lords weren't in their realms though,and they didn't really know he was,and after he absorbed the first bunch he became amped.

They merged their realms to fight him

No,they were in the process of merging when he came,they didn't even know who he was until he appeared

Originally posted by Genii96
No,they were in the process of merging when he came,they didn't even know who he was until he appeared
They did. The 7 hell lords were able to combine their realms and created a nexus to consolidate their power. Demogorge undid all of this when he restored all the gods and hell lords he had absorbed. He restored the dimensional boundaries of each netherworld.

Oh,they actually merged? I thought the demorgoge attacked them when he sensed them trying to merge or something like that

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Where would you put the Demogorge? He took on Mephisto, Pluto, Hela, and all the other Death Gods all at the same time and won.

Below Snowbird