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If we judged characters based only on their feats, and not on accolades or powerscaling, which ones would be the most powerful? (Legends canon, no entities)

Potentially:

1. Wankatine & Luke Skywalker
3. Valkorian
4. Nihilus
5. Galen Marek
6. Tulak Hord
7. The Dread Masters
8. Darth Vader
9. Satele Shan
10. Darth Malgus

Kyp Durron would be up there for his dovin basal manipulation but he doesn't have a very large body of feats. Darth Plagueis's "wrestle with the Force" feat is sick, but IDK where to place it. Tenebrous's foresight is also a little haxxed and difficult to rank.

1.Palpatine.
2.Valkorion.
3.Luke Skywalker.
4.Yoda.

Any order containing Revan, Plagueis, Exar Kun, Krayt, Nihilus and Caedus after this point is acceptable.

Originally posted by AncientPower
1.Palpatine.
2.Valkorion.
3.Luke Skywalker.
4.Yoda.

Any order containing Revan, Plagueis, Exar Kun, Krayt, Nihilus and Caedus after this point is acceptable.

Yoda has pretty sh*tty feats if you cut the powerscaling and accolades. He struggles to lift senate pods and metal pillars. We know that he's powerful from his performances against feat monsters like Sidious, but not from his own environmental manipulation.

(that is, unless if you count the ridiculous wank that is the OCW series, but I don't think it can coexist with TCW's timeline)

I'd put Luke above Valkorian. The supermassive black hole quote > anything Valkorian's done under his own power.

Caedus does not have very impressive feats.

Exar Kun hasn't done much without rituals or amulets, nor has Revan really (his best is probably ripping a language out of the Rataka natives, but I don't think that puts him in the top 10).

What are your thoughts on Vitiate's feats on Ziost?

Yoda being on the winning side of his fight with Sidious is a superb feat.

This is feats only, no quotes; Valkorion has killed a planet whilst in a weakened disembodied form.

Caedus has tanked capital ship weapons with his defenses; tanked numerous impalements and immolations without any sign of pain or effort; and his moment of oneness was the closest any Force user has ever gotten to becoming the true embodiment of the Force.

Exar Kun has used a single ritual; furthermore given that it is stated that an amulet would have a negligible boost to the power of Darth Bane, then your amulet wank is baseless. Weakened disembodied Kun is casually choking out Force prodigies all of whom have near mastery of all Luke's techniques.

Prime Revan fought two extremely powerful strike teams back-to-back and nearly won on both occasions.

Any other uneducated statements you'd like to bait with?

Given Fraudiate's track record, I'm assuming he used some sort of ritual or trick until there's evidence to the contrary.

It would still be less impressive than Wankatine's storms in terms of both sheer power output (energy to overwhelm Eclipse star destroyers >>&gt and application (Wankatine can teleport people lightyears with pinpoint precision), and probably less impressive than Luke's immovable object gig.

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The purpose of this thread is to use feats scaled vs. environmental manipulation, not that, which is essentially powerscaling and indistinguishable from generic discussion.



Has it been confirmed that he's weaker in his spirit form?



I'm interested in the capital ship feat, which I've heard of but never read myself. His pain tolerance is impressive but not necessarily a mega-impressive application of the Force. We think his oneness feat is good from accolades and powerscaling, not from what he actually did with it, and it was a one-time thing that he never replicated as Caedus.



For his most impressive feat...



Right, because all amulets are exactly identical to one another. Vader thinks that he could defeat Palpatine with the muur talismen, so this obviously means he could take him on by himself. After all, AncientPower, well known for his intellectual precision, said so, so it must be true!

(Of course, that would beg the question of why Kun even bothers with his amulets in the first place, and coincidentally demonstrates various abilities with them that he never replicates off his own power, but I'll renege - I'm using a lot of polysyllabic words right now.)



ROFLAMO! Yeah, "force prodigies" with a few weeks of training on a DS nexus. Regardless, this is just powerscaling.



Try mustering whatever figments of intellect you've suppressed in between your ears and give a more meaningful analysis than fighting "extremely powerful" strike teams, whatever that's supposed to mean. Here's a starting point: he lost on both occasions, and nobody on either strike team seemed injured afterwards.

This is also just powerscaling.



Not baiting, more just condescension for an intellectual midget who thinks that because a glock 22 wouldn't be much of a threat to Darth Bane, the Ultimate Nullifier must not be much of a threat to Jaden Korr.

So I'm the intellectual midget, whereas you're the one who purposefully designed a thread geared towards your own personal wankery? That is an entirely new height of irony.

1. Kyp Durron
2. Luke Skywalker

Originally posted by AncientPower
So I'm the intellectual midget, whereas you're the one who purposefully designed a thread geared towards your own personal wankery? That is an entirely new height of irony.

Actually, "purposely designing a thread geared towards personal wankery" (???), even if I had done that, isn't really related to general intelligence. The fact that you shot out this incoherent insult instead of actually responding to the arguments and analysis on the table is, though.

(I do find your allegation amusing in how little sense it makes - apparently this thread is uniquely bad out of the 100+ "most powerful Force users" threads simply because I put a spin on things by only allowing directly quantifiable feats)

Because you have built a thread based on feats exposure, I expressed my view on the list, you decided it'd be prudent to lowball almost everybody on said list.

The bias is thinly vieled 'Ellimist', if you were the cognizant higher being you portray yourself as, you would not resort to eliminating any other avenue of discussion to prove your point.

As for your laughable 'respond or concede' logic, I don't wish to waste my time arguing against another's anti-bias.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Because you have built a thread based on feats exposure, I expressed my view on the list, you decided it'd be prudent to lowball almost everybody on said list.


Wait, you mean I dared disagree with the mighty AncientPower and engaged him in a debate? How dare I!

Please accept my apologies.




Prove what point? I'm just creating a thread with a set of conditions, just like, say, "Yoda vs. Valkorian - Force battle", or limiting certain fights to Legends or Canon incarnations. It's an interesting dissection because:


Feats based lists will inevitably feature different orders from accolades, which is both an amusing commentary on the inconsistency of fictional universe and presents a philosophical question on what forms of analysis are more "valid" given the parameters present (.ie an imaginary universe).
Feats based lists would involve analysis of a different nature from accolade ones, so we can do calculations on various manipulations of the environment, as opposed to the more literary leaning methodology of accolades.


I know you want to inject some entertainment in your loser-life, so I guess you can believe what you want to about a secret agenda to character assassinate Valkorian and Caedus.



Nice ad-hominem fallacy. Weren't you the one who accused me of being uneducated? Fleeing from a debate by citing "bias" rather than pointing out any actual argumentation errors is a pretty clear sign of an uneducated mind. Although maybe education is the wrong barometer here - this probably correlates heavily with IQ, which is mostly hereditary.

So claiming Yoda, Caedus, Exar Kun and Revan don't have impressive feats or are external amp junkies, isn't anti-bias? This should be most entertaining.

Exar really isn't that impressive without amps.

Your presence wasn't foreseen at all...

Originally posted by AncientPower
So claiming Yoda, Caedus, Exar Kun and Revan don't have impressive feats or are external amp junkies, isn't anti-bias? This should be most entertaining.

If you think I'm wrong, the right way to contest me is to respond to my arguments and then present your own, with a series of implicit or explicit premises -> arguments -> conclusions. The 5 year old/AncientPower way is to throw a tantrum and fling ad hominems. Didn't you call me "uneducated"? Your highly educated self should know how to write and critique arguments.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Your presence wasn't foreseen at all...

He couldn't disintegrate Aleema Keto or overpower Ulic in the force, failed to replicate any of his Ghost feats while alive, nor does he have any notable feats of telekinesis, sorcery against powerful force sensitives, or done anything comparable to Caedus, Vader, or any of the aforementioned individuals without trinkets or darkside energies.

He isn't very great tbh

We're also talking about which Force users have the most impressive non-powerscaled feats, hence why I wouldn't put non-OCW Yoda in the top 20.

Wutzek.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Given Fraudiate's track record, I'm assuming he used some sort of ritual or trick until there's evidence to the contrary.
Yes, there is evidence to the contrary. It was not a ritual.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
It would still be less impressive than Wankatine's storms in terms of both sheer power output (energy to overwhelm Eclipse star destroyers >>&gt and application (Wankatine can teleport people lightyears with pinpoint precision), and probably less impressive than Luke's immovable object gig.
You must be joking.

Vitiate single-handedly performing a feat that required combined might of 8000 Sith Lords (with 10 days of non-stop effort) to pull off centuries earlier is superior to anything Palpatine has ever demonstrated in terms of raw strength. The only other being rivaling Vitiate's grand showing was the embodiment of the hunger itself; Darth Nihilus.

Just because Force Storm can consume physical matter, doesn't implies that the raw power behind it equals the same for the most powerful expressions of Force Drain ever witnessed.

Luke's so-called immovable gig sounds like his own perception. Just like Abeloth being a dozen times stronger then him. It was all in his head.

Legend takes Valkorion shit so personally.

In new canon, Vader stops an AT-AT. That was pretty awesome

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes, there is evidence to the contrary. It was not a ritual.


Based on...?



Firstly, I'm pretty sure Ziost was a nexus, and that he possessed its inhabitants to feed off their power. Secondly, the fact that it took pre-Nathema Vitiate and 8000 Sith to pull off the original Nathema doesn't mean that it's more impressive than what Wankatine does - that would assume that Wankatine < those sith, and yet you conveniently don't make that assumption between those sith and Vitiate - funny circular logic you're using here.



Nice assertion. Palpatine's Force storms can destroy fleets and rip the surfaces off of planets. Vitiate doesn't rip the surface off of Ziost, and quite frankly it's visibly less energetic than a base delta zero bombardment, which probably couldn't kill super star destroyers like Force storms can. It's not nearly as energetic.



True, Nihilus's Force drain does rival Vitiate's, and he doesn't even need a nexus.



Nice assertion. Too bad you haven't explained why something being more energetic doesn't correlate to how powerful it is.



Luke is remarkably humble. I would trust his judgment tbh.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
you do realize that the black hole at the center of the Milky Way Galaxy is 4 million times more massive than our sun, right? If the supermassive black hole in the center of the galaxy in Star Wars is anything like that, it's obviously hyperbole, given that Luke has been affected/harmed by infinitely less.