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No prep.
No BFR.
You can use any LoSH line up thats AFTER Crisis and BEFORE New52.
No team can include Superman or Supergirl (as i dont want this to become a Superman thread).

Heralds line up is:
Silver Surfer
Gabriel the Air-Walker (Robot)
Gabriel the Air-Walker (live)
Firelord
Destroyer
Terrax the Tamer
Nova
Morg the Executioner
Red Shift
Stardust
Prater

Can the smaller Hersld line up beat a literal legion?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111122896/4523485-4212725-863874-former_heralds.jpg

Matter Eater Lad eats them all.

*chomp*

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Matter Eater Lad eats them all.

*chomp*
I started a MeL vs Ultron thread here once. Where were you when i needed you?!?

But really, you got nothin' on this one? Is it too close to call?

The Legion destroys them.

Too much of a numbers game, eh? I thought it might be. Thanks, abhi.

I'm actually not so sure. A lot of the Legion will be canon fodder here. I would ask whoever thinks the Legion can win exactly who they think from the Legion are going to be the ones taking out most of the heralds?

If this was the pre crisis Legion I'd say they win handily, but post crisis? I don't know.

Those are things i was hoping would get talked about.
I cant deny just pure numbers might do it of course. The lower tier characters can all serve to set up the higher ones.

The destroyer can even things out, he's by far more powerful than the heralds and with his disintegration beam which can kill gods

I was thinking Morg, too. He had something called the well of life, right?
The Legion has magic users that might offset that though i guess.

Tough call. As stated above, many of the Legion would be cannon fodder without prep. Brainy is a pretty dangerous opponent with prep. Mon-El, Cosmic Boy, Ultra Boy, Blok, and Dawnstar wouldn't be enough IMO. The rest are just fodder ready to be BFR'd, or outright killed by Morg and Terrax. As for Matter Eater Lad, I'm not completely convinced that he would be capable of dealing with all of the Heralds. I'm sure I've missed something, so if anyone knows something that I don't I can easily be convinced otherwise.

Yeah, i can and do see this going either way. Numbers and raw power.

Mon-el
Superboy
Supergirl
Thunder
Ultraboy
Wildfire
Sensorgirl
Element lad
XS
Cosmic Boy (and IIRC his brother was also a member)
Block
White/black witch

These guys alone can give that list of heralds a bloody hard time.sensor girl can literaly xeprive them of their senses or make them see what she wants. She can make an illusion a "new reality".

When you add in Sunboy, lightning lad and Lass, KK, starboy, Phantom girl and Polarboy who can all at lease distract or occupy any herald so that the heavy hitters take out others fast/er. I'd say its a forgone conclusion

Even the fodder can destract enough to ensure victory

I say pc kk solos. Yeau no pc in the op but meh.

Originally posted by beatboks

Superboy

Even the fodder can destract enough to ensure victory

Which Superboy? I didnt specifically state it in the OP but by omitting Supergirl and Superman i meant Boy, too. My bad for being vague.
Conner Superboy i have no problem with though.

And i agree with you on the lower tier characters, like i said earlier.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
I say pc kk solos. Yeau no pc in the op but meh.
Brilliant!

Originally posted by beatboks
Mon-el
Superboy
Supergirl
Thunder
Ultraboy
Wildfire
Sensorgirl
Element lad
XS
Cosmic Boy (and IIRC his brother was also a member)
Block
White/black witch

These guys alone can give that list of heralds a bloody hard time.sensor girl can literaly xeprive them of their senses or make them see what she wants. She can make an illusion a "new reality".

When you add in Sunboy, lightning lad and Lass, KK, starboy, Phantom girl and Polarboy who can all at lease distract or occupy any herald so that the heavy hitters take out others fast/er. I'd say its a forgone conclusion

Even the fodder can destract enough to ensure victory Pre-Crisis is probably a given, but excluding that version the list above (removing Superboy/girl) plus KK still has numbers, power, and versatility. But I think the Legion will need to rely heavily on the heavy hitters and magic users to win through. I don't know how Saturn Girl would go, she is powerful but these are heralds. I also think MEL might be needed to take out Destroyer if some other members can get him close enough.

On the herald side Destroyer, Morg, and Surfer will be trouble. No Fallen One though.

Without Morg and Destroyer I'd say stronger Legion lineups would win out. But with them it's tough to pick.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
I say pc kk solos. Yeau no pc in the op but meh.

He wouldnt solo. I mean come on he can only turn their moves against them. He cant do that to several at once. He's never taken on more than 1 heavy hitter solo.

Still any of the 12 I listed could take on one of the heralds and at least hold their own (in the case of some like Black Witch can't think of a single Herald she cant beat). Taking those odds even without the full weight of the LoSH 50+ memebers more than leans the outcome their way

Actually Brainiac might also tip this the Legion's way for me, since the heralds don't exactly have a lot of brains on their side.

Brainiac's best with prep, though.

Originally posted by riv6672
Which Superboy? I didnt specifically state it in the OP but by omitting Supergirl and Superman i meant Boy, too. My bad for being vague.
Conner Superboy i have no problem with though.

And i agree with you on the lower tier characters, like i said earlier.


Brilliant!

I'll be honest, I completely missed the part about No superman (not that I consider superMAN part of the LoSH).

Still that simply makes the numbers of herald level character on both sides even (given Black witch can probabaly take two of them).

No sweat, just didnt want to go on a tangent i was specifically hoping to avoid.
I like what i'm hearing about this Black Witch though. Only know of her in passing, gotta do some research.

Originally posted by basilisk
Pre-Crisis is probably a given, but excluding that version the list above (removing Superboy/girl) plus KK still has numbers, power, and versatility. But I think the Legion will need to rely heavily on the heavy hitters and magic users to win through. I don't know how Saturn Girl would go, she is powerful but these are heralds. I also think MEL might be needed to take out Destroyer if some other members can get him close enough.

On the herald side Destroyer, Morg, and Surfer will be trouble. No Fallen One though.

Without Morg and Destroyer I'd say stronger Legion lineups would win out. But with them it's tough to pick.

Thunder, XS, Black witch, and sensor girl don't exist pre crisis (sensor girl was princess projectra, different and lessor power set).

Anyhow lets look at a few ive listed.

Wilfire if he was to completely release his entire energy for from his containment suit can become a near limitless energy that in a blast can potentially take out a few heralds.

Sensor/girl after her retern and increase in power can completely alter the perceptions of anyone. She no longer just casts illusions like when she was projectra she completely controls all sensory input. In lightning saga Superman couldnt even see through he illauiona he only had an inkling be cause he knew sensor and a suspicion that something wasnt right. She kept her identity completely hidden from everyone but saturn girl IIRC. She couls literally have most of the heralds fighting each other just like she had the JSA and JLA. She went after the Fatal 5 solo ffs.

Thunder, Mon-el, Ultra-boy, and blok (not to mention Andromda the female daxamite I forgot) have the same similar erguments that we see in Superman vs Silver Surfer threads. They may not take Surfer, Destroyer or Morg but the rest they woul in 1 on 1s and they can hold off those 3 for a while.

None of the heralds should be able to so much as tag XS.

Black witch having absorbed the power of Mordru can take pretty much any herald and for the lesser ones 2 at a time.

Element lad can alter their structure.

Then lets look at some of the fodder/ brief memebers that I havent mentioned.

Quantum kid (number 2 bumber 1 was a joke) cand slow them in time to hold players out of the battle.

Kinetix a powerful TKer who could manipulate matter and magic.

Harmonia Li who can control all four elements.

Lets not forget "Earth-Man" who can siphon off powers. Granted more of a LoSH villain but briefly a memeber.

Quantum Queen. Able to control almost any part of the energy/ magnetic spectrum. Super strength, invulnerbility and the ability to go Nova.

Or quislet whoc an possess inanimate objects and cintrol alter them. They are destoyed when hes in them to long or leaves. He possesses surfer boatd, firelords staff and then simply leaves and they self desteuct. The only thing safe from his possession is matter frommhis own dimension. Thats a pretty much instant/ quick removal of most heralds weapons and destroyer armor played right.

How anout Tyrok with basically the powers of Black Bolt.

All of that is excluding Rond Vidar and Celeste Mcauley (both with the power of GL's. Chemical king and Boy who can control chemical reactions and composition. Chameleon boy and Girl who can take on the forms of anyone right down to internal organs. Attck you as though they were your allies (aided by sensor and he deceptions.

The options are too many without some sort of limit on the number of Legionares allowed to be used. Ive barely touched on the full spectrum of Legion membership.

Really?
Is that pre or post crisis?
Seems these two should have been matched up here.

Originally posted by riv6672
Really?
Is that pre or post crisis?
Seems these two should have been matched up here.

If we go pre crisis he even has feats for low level reality warping. Which from sound generation just doesnt make sense (but then a lot of pre COIE didnt) and controlling weather and stuff by sonic waves and the right words. But thinking on it a lot of he stuff post COIE is off panel being more of a supporting character. What we do see on panel is more like sonic force blasts with vague references to other applications..

Good deal.
I went and started a thread, giving you due credit, of course!

White Witch can easily neutralize Destroyer.

Originally posted by beatboks
Mon-el
Superboy
Supergirl
Thunder
Ultraboy
Wildfire
Sensorgirl
Element lad
XS
Cosmic Boy (and IIRC his brother was also a member)
Block
White/black witch

These guys alone can give that list of heralds a bloody hard time.sensor girl can literaly xeprive them of their senses or make them see what she wants. She can make an illusion a "new reality".

When you add in Sunboy, lightning lad and Lass, KK, starboy, Phantom girl and Polarboy who can all at lease distract or occupy any herald so that the heavy hitters take out others fast/er. I'd say its a forgone conclusion

Even the fodder can destract enough to ensure victory

There are no Supermen in this fight os Superboy shouldn't be in it. Or Supergirl. So we are left with post crisis Ultraboy and Mon El as the big heavy hitters. Wildfire too I guess. But a lot of people will be killed in the opening energy blast. Mon El has the lead weakness right? Surfer can surely transmute lead. Likewise, what will Sunboy do to Surfer besides be a speed bump? Same for lightning Lad and pretty much everyone else you mentioned.

EDIT: Like for example you said Element Lad can "alter their structures" but he will most likely be vaporized before anything like that can be done.

Some of these people have powers that would potentially be helpful..if their opponents more or less just stood there and didn't move and let them do their thing.

Also yeah if this is the version of the Destroyer powerful enough to cut Thor's hammer in half with an energy beam then the heralds should win quite easily.

Originally posted by Surtur
There are no Supermen in this fight os Superboy shouldn't be in it. Or Supergirl. So we are left with post crisis Ultraboy and Mon El as the big heavy hitters. Wildfire too I guess. But a lot of people will be killed in the opening energy blast. Mon El has the lead weakness right? Surfer can surely transmute lead. Likewise, what will Sunboy do to Surfer besides be a speed bump? Same for lightning Lad and pretty much everyone else you mentioned.

EDIT: Like for example you said Element Lad can "alter their structures" but he will most likely be vaporized before anything like that can be done.

Some of these people have powers that would potentially be helpful..if their opponents more or less just stood there and didn't move and let them do their thing.

Also yeah if this is the version of the Destroyer powerful enough to cut Thor's hammer in half with an energy beam then the heralds should win quite easily.


Maybe you should read some LOSH before spouting such BS. No, Mon-El isn't weak to lead in LOSH due to Brainy making a cure.

The rest is just nonsensical.

Originally posted by Surtur
There are no Supermen in this fight os Superboy shouldn't be in it. Or Supergirl. So we are left with post crisis Ultraboy and Mon El as the big heavy hitters. Wildfire too I guess. But a lot of people will be killed in the opening energy blast. Mon El has the lead weakness right? Surfer can surely transmute lead. Likewise, what will Sunboy do to Surfer besides be a speed bump? Same for lightning Lad and pretty much everyone else you mentioned.

EDIT: Like for example you said Element Lad can "alter their structures" but he will most likely be vaporized before anything like that can be done.

Some of these people have powers that would potentially be helpful..if their opponents more or less just stood there and didn't move and let them do their thing.

Also yeah if this is the version of the Destroyer powerful enough to cut Thor's hammer in half with an energy beam then the heralds should win quite easily.

Thunder and Andromeda are also Superman level. Thunder is 30th cent marvel family and Andromda is a daxamite. As abhi said lead weakness doesn't exist in the 30th cent, b5 came up with a cure which is why Mon-el came out of phantom zone.

Blok can also fight close to that level. Close to same degree strength and durability.

Sensor girl was actually believed by the Legion to be Supergirl in disguise for some time. Thats how powerful she is.

Black Witch is up there with classic strange anf Fate. Not to mention she also has an apprentise who's a brief member.

You also have the fact IIRC that a descendent of tellis was able to stomp Supergirl in REBELS. Thats a less evolved member of that race.

There are a total of 7 superman type heroes in the LoSH including Supes and SG. Exlcuding still leaves 5 equals.plus a couple very close to equal. Add in Black witch who is vastly superior in power, wild fire, rond Vidar (GL), celeste (GL), Quantum Queen who are all close or in that level. others I've mentioned who can battle at that level. Then factor in teams of others who can combine to be a problem.

Even without Superman and Supergirl there are at least a dozen legionares that could all go one on one with most of these heralds (and a few of those like Bw who can go 1 to 2). There are a dozen more who can trouble them briefly solo (or have periods in their history when they could like Starboy who was also briefly superman like).

We're talking about a team that has had a memebership of around 60 members at the same time AND has a total list of members close to 100 if I'm not mistaken. We were told we could use any members post COIE. I mean Brainys force field can contain any herald for as long as required. Already mentioned Quantum kid can slow time to a stop for some heralds so those who can contend can take out others.

You mention Sunbot. He was able to defeat Quantum Queen when she was a villain by fighting smart. QQ was an energy manipulator on SS level at that point. When she came back to join as a Legionare her power had vrown and she was also a matter manipulator who additionally had Super strength AND invulnerability.

Its clear to me your not familiar with the range and scope of Legion memebers and their powers.

Originally posted by beatboks
Mon-el
Superboy
Supergirl
Thunder
Ultraboy
Wildfire
Sensorgirl
Element lad
XS
Cosmic Boy (and IIRC his brother was also a member)
Block
White/black witch

These guys alone can give that list of heralds a bloody hard time.sensor girl can literaly xeprive them of their senses or make them see what she wants. She can make an illusion a "new reality".

When you add in Sunboy, lightning lad and Lass, KK, starboy, Phantom girl and Polarboy who can all at lease distract or occupy any herald so that the heavy hitters take out others fast/er. I'd say its a forgone conclusion

Even the fodder can destract enough to ensure victory

Yeah, Sensor Girl fooled the JLA. Legion takes this.

Surtur's got a point, abhi. You and s lot of posters here debate that way.

Other than that this still seems an interesting match up.

Originally posted by riv6672
Surtur's got a point, abhi. You and s lot of posters here debate that way.

Other than that this still seems an interesting match up.

I dont believe he does. The idea that the legion is getting many taken out in an opejing salvo simply shouldnt fly. Dream girl will have seen this salvo allowing the Legion to react b4 initiated. B5 will extended his FF around his team mates. B5's force field can withstand Suneater (solar system dwstriction level) so is well untruly capable of wthistanding the damage the heralds can dish out. As stated Quantum kid can slow their attacksto a stop also allowing the legion to react in time to avoid..

These are just a FEW options of many.

If thats how you want to call it thats fine, but i said no prep.
Also, to be clear, my statement goes both ways. I don't (personally) think the Heralds take out a majority of the Legion off the bat, either. Its not like they're statues. Well, except for Stone Boy.

And again thats all IF sensor even allows the heralds to sense their presence, know where to attack, and simply not have the heralds percieve each other as their enemy and them all take themselves out.

Ah, i see you're talking AT not TO. Carry on.

Originally posted by riv6672
If thats how you want to call it thats fine, but i said no prep.
Also, to be clear, my statement goes both ways. I don't (personally) think the Heralds take out a majority of the Legion off the bat, either. Its not like they're statues. Well, except fir Stone Boy.

Ahh i didnt say prep. She can have the vision at outset of or arrival on battle/field. Legion are normally TP linked by either Saturn Girl or Tellus. Lets not forget the prime enemy is a guy who can play with time like no other who has NEVER had them flat footed!!!!

If Time trapper cant blitz the team when time is his plaything these heralds arent.

Oh and FTR I'm not saying there is no chance of an opening attack that takes out a large number of the Legion just that the way the Legion as a team are portrayed it's not an overly likely outcome. There is a chance of that occurring maybe 3 of 4 times out of ten.

I mean look at the enemies that the Legion fights.

The fatal five is a team of 5 who frankly would take a majority vs the 11 heralds here

Time Trapper who can and did crete his own pocket universe to play with.

Pulsar Stargrve - intellect near B5, physicals near Superman and energy manipulations on the level above a star.

Mordru who absorbed half the magic in the DC universe of this era and it took every mage in the universe to bind him to one planet (before White witch took his power and became Black)

Nemisis kid with convenient plot device power of being able to develop the power necessary to defeat anyone he faces.

Darksied, and lets not forget that during GDS he absorbed the power of many magical artifacts AND that of a just freed Mordru. Yeah I know pre COIE but still canon given that it's a part of Legion history and without it how does Validus even come to exist (since DS would have never taken Lighting lad and Saturn girls baby to make him if he had no call for revenge)

Omaga (or maybe Omega)who is formed from the hate of all the known Universe (IIRC he was actually created by B5)

These are just some of the guys that teams of Legionaires fight usually with just one or two of their heavy hitters in these battles (most legion stories only feature a dozen or less members at a time).

Is morg with WOL?

Originally posted by Genii96
Is morg with WOL?
That's the version i'm familiar with, so yes.

And Beatboks:
No prep means no prep.
That has NEVER been an issue here no matter how many precogs have happened to be on a team.
So, basically if you're hinging your whole strategy on that, your strategy is faulty.
You probably dont care, but then neither do i.

Originally posted by beatboks
Thunder and Andromeda are also Superman level. Thunder is 30th cent marvel family and Andromda is a daxamite.

What actual feats do they have on Superman's level?



And his speed?



I was mostly going by the people in the actual picture shown, not the 60-100 other members. I just can't help noticing a lot of this is "well this person is like this person, and this person is like this person" instead of feats. "So and so is like Dr. Strange and Fate combined" and all that.

Originally posted by beatboks
Ahh i didnt say prep. She can have the vision at outset of or arrival on battle/field. Legion are normally TP linked by either Saturn Girl or Tellus. Lets not forget the prime enemy is a guy who can play with time like no other who has NEVER had them flat footed!!!!

If Time trapper cant blitz the team when time is his plaything these heralds arent.

Some of the logic you put forth doesn't make any actual sense. It doesn't matter how many visions someone has if they aren't fast enough to do anything about it. Even though some 85% of the Legion lack the speed to even use her vision to avoid any kind of attack...whether they are telepathically linked or not. It's like when I see someone saying a force user can react to the Flash because of their "force precog".

Morg with WOL?,um,I think heralds win this one

Wait, I didn't know Stargrave had Superman esque stats.

Matter Eater Lad has bitten off his nose and eaten it before....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wait, I didn't know Stargrave had Superman esque stats.

Matter Eater Lad has bitten off his nose and eaten it before....
If i bump that Ultton thread, you better respond to it!

Originally posted by riv6672
That's the version i'm familiar with, so yes.

And Beatboks:
No prep means no prep.
That has NEVER been an issue here no matter how many precogs have happened to be on a team.
So, basically if you're hinging your whole strategy on that, your strategy is faulty.
You probably dont care, but then neither do i.

Prep by definition is something done before a battle starts. A vision of the attack that hasn't been launched at the outset of a battle is and never has been prep. It's also consistent with 60% of dream girls depictions.

That would be like calling Cass Caine's and Shiva's movement reading prep, or the vision of Argus that can project where attacks being initiated not yet done will land, Or DD's senses that can track and allow him to dodge multiple attacks prep.

I'm not hinging my whole strategy on anything. What I'm saying is that there are literally hundreds of scenarios done in Legion stories where teams of so called fodder faced equally powerful opponents who were capable of launching equally devastating attacks with greater speed than anyone on the heralds team. They didn't work in those hundreds of stories but we're supposed to buy that characters that actually don't use speed as much as those in the stories in question or even as capable of it are going to in character launch an attack that will succeed where they failed???

How does that make sense to anyone??? A team that had only 3 of the heavy hitters (as most consider them) took on the combined JLA and JSA in lighting saga. They had B5, KK (who I haven't mentioned), Timber Wolf, element lad, dream girl, Dawnstar, Sensor, Cosmic boy, Ultra Boy and wildfire. Sensor basically had both teams fighting phantasms. She even let them see through her illusions and have Superman confront another illusion of her (and let him believe he had badly hurt her). Lets also not forget that Sensor has also got the feat of depriving the emerald eye of Ekron of sight, a power artifact that has feats equaling "cosmic awareness"

It's a canon feat and has several instances of being used. There is literally no guarantee that the heralds would even know what they are truly fighting.

Honestly if you deny the Legion access to Sensor this whole thing opens up quite a bit. UNlike every other legionaire she got quite a boost in power post COIE that really moved her up several notches. Considering she's the one who killed Nemisis kid (the whole reason she became Sensor Girl was to try and get back into legion after having killed which got her expelled) after he killed her Love Karate Kid.

Hell Sensor can even remove the "illusion" of distance or size (or add it). SHe could make it appear that they are galaxies away when they are right beside them. Just like she can allow her team mates to see the far side of the galaxy as though they have superman's telescopic vision.

No Sensor for Legion and I could see this becoming a debatable fight. NO White/Black Witch as well and it would be case for the heralds at 6/10 or maybe a split.

Heralds do have ' cosmic awareness', FWIW.

Originally posted by Surtur
What actual feats do they have on Superman's level?

And his speed?

I was mostly going by the people in the actual picture shown, not the 60-100 other members. I just can't help noticing a lot of this is "well this person is like this person, and this person is like this person" instead of feats. "So and so is like Dr. Strange and Fate combined" and all that.

Some of the logic you put forth doesn't make any actual sense. It doesn't matter how many visions someone has if they aren't fast enough to do anything about it. Even though some 85% of the Legion lack the speed to even use her vision to avoid any kind of attack...whether they are telepathically linked or not. It's like when I see someone saying a force user can react to the Flash because of their "force precog".

Andromeda has knocked Mon-el across a solar system (at least some ways) from memory.

Can't recall any feats of the top of my head for Thunder. Though important to note Thunder is the only one drawing on the power of Shazam in the 30th century.

What difference does Blok's speed make when most of the heralds aren't actually fast?? The majority travel fast by bending space.

and yet those same fodder characters have reacted to faster opponents with said precog and TP links during battle.

You talk about the masses being taken down quick but that relies on the two GL's, the 4 Daxamite/Kryptonian level characters, White Witch, Wildfire, XS, Quantum Queen and a few others easily on their level doing nothing to protect their team mates.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Wait, I didn't know Stargrave had Superman esque stats.

Matter Eater Lad has bitten off his nose and eaten it before....

When was that, because Stargrave has had a few bodies and one gave Mon-el a bloody good fight. Pre COIE stargrave certainly wasn't "supe's level"

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Heralds do have ' cosmic awareness', FWIW.

As I said, so does the emerald Eye and Sensor blinded that which shut it down

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_nmT6oNp55Tg/R-1iTlCmBAI/AAAAAAAAAwo/3OiN-cZCpnQ/s1600-h/Picture+1.jpg

Sensor Girl has also helped a Promethean Giant that was messed with.

Originally posted by Stoic
Tough call. As stated above, many of the Legion would be cannon fodder without prep. Brainy is a pretty dangerous opponent with prep. Mon-El, Cosmic Boy, Ultra Boy, Blok, and Dawnstar wouldn't be enough IMO. The rest are just fodder ready to be BFR'd, or outright killed by Morg and Terrax. As for Matter Eater Lad, I'm not completely convinced that he would be capable of dealing with all of the Heralds. I'm sure I've missed something, so if anyone knows something that I don't I can easily be convinced otherwise.

Brainy's shields are useful, though. The things are damned near impenetrable. Only seen Darkseid ever break one, and that was with some effort. (Although Pre Crisis era).

And can we pick a Legion after crisis, but before Five Years Later? Because, that Legion has PC power levels..

You can even throw in pocket universe Superboy into that era..

Or what about the fact Five Years Later feature TWO Legion teams? Each as "real" as the other? How about Time Trapper being a member for like an issue?

And Legion of Three Worlds came out within the limitation, right? Are we only using one team? Sodam Yat?

Assuming the answer to most of this is "One team, official members only", all that needs clearing up is Pocket Universe Superboy, who is neither Supergirl.nor Superman.

BTW, here is Sensor Girl fooling Superman, Power Girl, Hawkgirl, Red Tornando, Batman, Green Lantern, Hawkman, etc...

http://i64.tinypic.com/24ni9nq.jpg

Basically Fantomex.

Didnt think there'd be quite so much double talk without Kryptonians in the mix. Live and learn.

Originally posted by riv6672
Didnt think there'd be quite so much double talk without Kryptonians in the mix. Live and learn.

It will probably piss abhi off but IMO post Crisis sensor is a much greater MVP 2 legion then superboy. No I'm the Big Blue Boy Scout post COIE take on the fatal 5 solo. Add to that the fact that white witch took Mordru's power from him.

We've already seen the scan where sensot deals with superman, powergirl (two Kryptonians) who had the help of two flashes, a GL, stargirl and IIRC wonder woman. There al9ne we havena single member not normally considered a heavy hitter keeping 6 herald level characters busy and out of the way.

White witch could just as easily take a few of them completely down and out.

Like i said bar these two and we have a very debatable match. Without Jeckie and WW only Mon-el, Andromeda, Thunder, Ultra-Boy, Quantum Queen and maybe XS can actually take on a herald solo.

Originally posted by beatboks
It will probably piss abhi off but IMO post Crisis sensor is a much greater MVP 2 legion then superboy. No I'm the Big Blue Boy Scout post COIE take on the fatal 5 solo. Add to that the fact that white witch took Mordru's power from him.

We've already seen the scan where sensot deals with superman, powergirl (two Kryptonians) who had the help of two flashes, a GL, stargirl and IIRC wonder woman. There al9ne we havena single member not normally considered a heavy hitter keeping 6 herald level characters busy and out of the way.

White witch could just as easily take a few of them completely down and out.

Like i said bar these two and we have a very debatable match. Without Jeckie and WW only Mon-el, Andromeda, Thunder, Ultra-Boy, Quantum Queen and maybe XS can actually take on a herald solo.

What other things has Sensor Girl done? Do you have any respect threads/scans on Comicvine?

Originally posted by beatboks
It will probably piss abhi off but IMO post Crisis sensor is a much greater MVP 2 legion then superboy.
Well, then all your precog shenanigans will have a positive effect.

Originally posted by riv6672
Well, then all your precog shenanigans will have a positive effect.

All that was, was showing some examples how the fodder could be made relivent (and the regularly played plot devices used to make them so).

Jeckie and white witch are the biggest pieces on the board for LoSH without a doubt. Played right they can remove many opposing pieces from the board.

Black Witch seemed pretty op in LO3W, considering her opposition was stealing souls and all..

I don't know, that's a LOT of heralds.

Silver Surfer alone I'd put on a PC Kryptonian's level (Boo all you want, Norrin was crossing galaxies and evolving races, and beating skyfather+/Abstract Uni-Lord when Superman was stuck on Earth post crisis and needed a GL ride to travel).

Originally posted by beatboks
All that was, was showing some examples how the fodder could be made relivent (and the regularly played plot devices used to make them so).

Jeckie and white witch are the biggest pieces on the board for LoSH without a doubt. Played right they can remove many opposing pieces from the board.
Okay, we'll go with that.

Originally posted by cdtm
I don't know, that's a LOT of heralds.

Silver Surfer alone I'd put on a PC Kryptonian's level (Boo all you want, Norrin was crossing galaxies and evolving races, and beating skyfather+/Abstract Uni-Lord when Superman was stuck on Earth post crisis and needed a GL ride to travel).


http://i.imgur.com/crejA.gif

I actually wouldn't put Surfer on the level of PC Kryptonians. They have far better feats of physical strength, speed, and durability. I think PC Supes could take Surfer out with probably one punch.

But that's not really a knock on Surfer..it's just some Silver Age heroes had hilariously vast levels of power.

And simple weaknesses.

Originally posted by riv6672
And simple weaknesses.

This is true, they had to make up for the massive power somehow.

But yeah, Surfer could potentially win. It's another one of those things where a person has the potential to win if their opponent just stands there and doesn't try to fight back. Surfer could generate kryptonite to win, but he would be KO'ed before he could even conceive of the thought. That is, of course, assuming the characters use their speed.

See, you say "would be" KOd.
Its not a given.

Originally posted by cdtm
I don't know, that's a LOT of heralds.

Silver Surfer alone I'd put on a PC Kryptonian's level (Boo all you want, Norrin was crossing galaxies and evolving races, and beating skyfather+/Abstract Uni-Lord when Superman was stuck on Earth post crisis and needed a GL ride to travel).
Maybe he can use that speed to run away from Superman.

Are you sure you want to compare who has beaten who? Surfer was amped as hell against unilord and it's non canon anyway.

Surfer couldn't even beat Henshaw when they met. Forget about Superman.

Originally posted by Surtur
This is true, they had to make up for the massive power somehow.

But yeah, Surfer could potentially win. It's another one of those things where a person has the potential to win if their opponent just stands there and doesn't try to fight back. Surfer could generate kryptonite to win, but he would be KO'ed before he could even conceive of the thought. That is, of course, assuming the characters use their speed.

Well, look at how much trouble they had with Darkseid's minion's.

The Legion can take just about anybody, but they usually need some kind of prep to do it. Here, it's a straight up power play, and the Legion doesn't have near enough heavy hitters to deal with a team of black hole creating, sun destroying? ftl moving heralds.

Their only shot is an alpha strike from.White Witch or something, and that's a lot less likely then being alpha striked themselves, given heralds all have roughly flt capability (Wouldn't be much use to Galactus if they didn't).

Originally posted by cdtm
Well, look at how much trouble they had with Darkseid's minion's.


You mean a Superman clone, a Guardian clone, an Orion clone etc? A Guardian alone would take all these heralds.

If only the heralds were that powerful. If we are using high feat only, how about planet chucking, dwarf star carrying, going toe to toe with Time Trapper and Infinite Man Mon-El? How about sun eater destroying Wildfire? How about black hole sealing Cosmic Boy? Even a low level Legion member like Sun Boy can turn sun red and back into yellow FFS.



None of these heralds are faster than Spider-Man. Flying in space doesn't makes you a Speedster.

Sorry, CBR version of heralds don't exist.

What's Mon El going to do against Destroyer?

And spidey speed? Are you serious? Surfer, at least has very definitive speed feats well beyond Spidey.. Rescueing female Nova from a Skrull prison, surrounded by layers of vibranium and wired to explode if anyone breaches the walls. Meaning he had to not only force his way past the vibranium, but get in and out faster then the signal takes to trigger the bombs.

Originally posted by cdtm
What's Mon El going to do against Destroyer?


Better than Thing did? That's why White Witch is there.

Yes, his board is very fast. He himself? Spidey blitzes the shit out of him every time they "fight".

It's like saying Green Lanterns are so fast!!!! And trust me, GLs have flying feats which shits all over Surfer's.

Originally posted by cdtm
Well, look at how much trouble they had with Darkseid's minion's.

The Legion can take just about anybody, but they usually need some kind of prep to do it. Here, it's a straight up power play, and the Legion doesn't have near enough heavy hitters to deal with a team of black hole creating, sun destroying? ftl moving heralds.

Their only shot is an alpha strike from.White Witch or something, and that's a lot less likely then being alpha striked themselves, given heralds all have roughly flt capability (Wouldn't be much use to Galactus if they didn't).

I always just thought it was that Darkseid had some massively powerful minions.

Originally posted by cdtm
Well, look at how much trouble they had with Darkseid's minion's.

The Legion can take just about anybody, but they usually need some kind of prep to do it. Here, it's a straight up power play, and the Legion doesn't have near enough heavy hitters to deal with a team of black hole creating, sun destroying? ftl moving heralds.

Their only shot is an alpha strike from.White Witch or something, and that's a lot less likely then being alpha striked themselves, given heralds all have roughly flt capability (Wouldn't be much use to Galactus if they didn't).
Good points.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Better than Thing did? That's why White Witch is there.
?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Better than Thing did? That's why White Witch is there.

Yes, his board is very fast. He himself? Spidey blitzes the shit out of him every time they "fight".

It's like saying Green Lanterns are so fast!!!! And trust me, GLs have flying feats which shits all over Surfer's.

Norrin had to grab her, though. That takes personal speed.

But lets assume I'm in agreement with you. Norrin's still more then capable of blitzing on the board, as his "Surfer brigade" was doing in the Uni Lord Saga.

His physical charge attack has shaken high heralds and up. Richard Rider, for example.

But even if Mon El could crush heralds in speed, the sheer amount of heralds means they could wipe out White Which and lesser characters while he's taking on whomever. Black holes, energy attacks, distintigration beams.. Scorched Earth. And then it's a few heavy hitters vs the heralds.

With prep, yeah, Brainiac Five sets up a force field, white witch prepares some spells. Without any prep at all, they're screwed.

^^^the response to this will likely contain a statement along the lines of how Richard Rider is nothing compared to insert character name.

Didn't White Witch absorb Mordru?

Originally posted by cdtm
Well, look at how much trouble they had with Darkseid's minion's.

The Legion can take just about anybody, but they usually need some kind of prep to do it. Here, it's a straight up power play, and the Legion doesn't have near enough heavy hitters to deal with a team of black hole creating, sun destroying? ftl moving heralds.

Their only shot is an alpha strike from.White Witch or something, and that's a lot less likely then being alpha striked themselves, given heralds all have roughly flt capability (Wouldn't be much use to Galactus if they didn't).

Wait a second how is this "alpha strike" supposed to work for the heralds. Are the dozen plus members of Legion who are faster with better reflexes tha the 11 heralds (and not all of them are fast BTW - speed feats for Destroyer please) supposed to sit on their hands and do nothing while the heralds destroy their friends? XS alone could remove most in danger before an attack struck them. Mon-el has greater speed feats than SS (the fastest herald) and Thunder on panel was shown faster than him (thunder actually has the speed feats being the one to eneact a strategy that required speed and being chosen above Mon-el AND XS). Andromeda being Damxamite also is close.

POOR LOGIC

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
?
?

Originally posted by cdtm
Norrin had to grab her, though. That takes personal speed.


Yes, he can grab someone. Is that supposed to be shocking?

Unilord saga is non canon. How many times does that has to be told to you?

Since when is Nova a high herald? Not to mention he attacked Nova from behind.

That's BS. They have zero hopes of breaching Brainiac 5 force field. And yes, it can endure black holes just fine.

Destroyer when a herald was stalemated by Thing FFS.

Haha, this is just mindless wanking of heralds. Nobody short of skyfather is beating a fully fledged Legion team.

Originally posted by beatboks
Wait a second how is this "alpha strike" supposed to work for the heralds. Are the dozen plus members of Legion who are faster with better reflexes tha the 11 heralds (and not all of them are fast BTW - speed feats for Destroyer please) supposed to sit on their hands and do nothing while the heralds destroy their friends? XS alone could remove most in danger before an attack struck them. Mon-el has greater speed feats than SS (the fastest herald) and Thunder on panel was shown faster than him (thunder actually has the speed feats being the one to eneact a strategy that required speed and being chosen above Mon-el AND XS). Andromeda being Damxamite also is close.

POOR LOGIC

XS, Flash's relative? Faster then Norrin?

Nooo. No no no. Not even close. Silver Surfer has speed feats on par with Flash Prime, my friend, let alone one of the many lesser Flash family offshoots.

Anyways, the rules said to pick a team, so I asume we can't mix and match between eras. So, how many big guns can we stack on any given version, who could survive those heralds unleashing everything they have at the bell?

Originally posted by cdtm
XS, Flash's relative? Faster then Norrin?

Nooo. No no no. Not even close. Silver Surfer has speed feats on par with Flash Prime, my friend, let alone one of the many lesser Flash family offshoots.

Hahahaha. Oh the myths of CBR.

Surfer isn't even as fast as a green lantern. Let alone a Flash.



Everyone. Legion flight rings have enough protection.

Originally posted by cdtm
XS, Flash's relative? Faster then Norrin?

Undoubtedly. Norrin has good travel speed feats for traversing space by bending it. The exact same thing done by every GL. His actual speed particularly reaction aren't that high at all. You already conceded this point when you attributed his speed to his board.



No he doesn't. I've seen this BS thrown up so many times with scans that were supposed to support it that don't.



The rules say any line up of Legionaries between COIE and Flashpoint. Those I've listed are exactly within this period

I could have gone with Lo3W. Let's look at the line up from vol 4 alone

Legion of Super-Heroes

Blok, Brainiac 5, Cosmic Boy, Dawnstar, Dream Girl, Lightning Lad, Lightning Lass, Mon-El, Phantom Girl, Polar Boy, Saturn Girl, Starman, Sun Boy, Timber Wolf, Ultra Boy, White Witch, Wildfire

Legion of Super-Heroes 2

Andromeda, Apparition, Brainiac 5, Cosmic Boy, Dreamer, Ferro, Gates, Gear, Invisible Kid, Kid Quantum, Kinetix (Dies), Live Wire, M'Onel, Saturn Girl, Sensor, Shikari, Spark, Star Boy, Timber Wolf, Ultra Boy, Umbra, Violet, Wildfire, XS

Legion of Super-Heroes 3

Brainiac 5, Element Lad (Dies), Light Lass, Lightning Lad, Mon-El, Phantom Girl, Shadow Lass, Star Boy, Sun Boy (Deceased), Timber Wolf, Triplicate Girl, Ultra Boy

From that one issue without the entire line up from the ark there are 15 team members who can easily go one on one with the 11 heralds (I'd argue WW could go 1 on 2 maybe 3). If we go to issue 3 add another Mon-el. The version of "starman can create and control black holes.

For the record while there I can't recall teh feats that support it, It's was also stated on panel the Andromeda was stronger than Supergirl.

There we go, single line up from one point in time that stomps. But hey all those guy's will stand on the hands while the heralds demolish the team amtes.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Surfer isn't even as fast as a green lantern.
Yeah thats just your opinion.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Everyone. Legion flight rings have enough protection.
Thats bullshit.

A Legion Flight Ring is controlled by mental command, and like a Green Power Ring, it can be willed for varying effects. For example, because of Dream Girl's strong will, she has used the Flight Ring to move other objects be negating the gravity around it. It's main function, however, is to allow it's wearer to fly.

Another function of the Legion Flight Ring is to send out a distress call. If a Legionnaire rotates the "L" symbol 45 degrees, the ring will send out a distress message that will be recieved by other Legionnaires and the Mission Monitor Board at Legion Headquarters.

Brainiac 5 has modified the functions of a ring specific to each Legionnaire. For example, Colossal Boy's ring will enlarge with him, and Shrinking Violet's will shrink with her. Other examples of this include the Legion Flight Ring being able to "Duplicate" with Duplicate Damsel, resist temperature extremes around Sun Boy and Polar Boy and handle the increased mass of Blok. Another modification he had recently made, was to Earth-Man's Legion Flight Ring, in order to keep him on a short leash and alter his morality.

A Legion Flight Ring is also used for security purposes. Only someone with a Legion Flight Ring is allowed to use certain equipment, including the Legion Cruiser.

In certain alternate universe versions of the Legion, it has other uses as well. Environmental protection is an added benefit for the Earth-Prime Legionnaires, for example. The Earth-0 and Earth-247 Legionnaires use Legion Transuits instead.

I'm sure i'll get the "data sites are meaningless" response but hey, i put more stock in them than just your word.
On certain subjects, you're very bissed.

Originally posted by riv6672
Yeah thats just your opinion.


Thats bullshit.

A Legion Flight Ring is controlled by mental command, and like a Green Power Ring, it can be willed for varying effects. For example, because of Dream Girl's strong will, she has used the Flight Ring to move other objects be negating the gravity around it. It's main function, however, is to allow it's wearer to fly.

Another function of the Legion Flight Ring is to send out a distress call. If a Legionnaire rotates the "L" symbol 45 degrees, the ring will send out a distress message that will be recieved by other Legionnaires and the Mission Monitor Board at Legion Headquarters.

Brainiac 5 has modified the functions of a ring specific to each Legionnaire. For example, Colossal Boy's ring will enlarge with him, and Shrinking Violet's will shrink with her. Other examples of this include the Legion Flight Ring being able to "Duplicate" with Duplicate Damsel, resist temperature extremes around Sun Boy and Polar Boy and handle the increased mass of Blok. Another modification he had recently made, was to Earth-Man's Legion Flight Ring, in order to keep him on a short leash and alter his morality.

A Legion Flight Ring is also used for security purposes. Only someone with a Legion Flight Ring is allowed to use certain equipment, including the Legion Cruiser.

In certain alternate universe versions of the Legion, it has other uses as well. Environmental protection is an added benefit for the Earth-Prime Legionnaires, for example. The Earth-0 and Earth-247 Legionnaires use Legion Transuits instead.

I'm sure i'll get the "data sites are meaningless" response but hey, i put more stock in them than just your word.
On certain subjects, you're very bissed.

That's a fact. You can call it a flash fact as well. Lanterns fly to and from center of universe to the edge of the universe all the time. Surfer in his entire history never does that.

Read some LOSH comics. The ring provides a force field as well.

Superman has bounced off the force field. None of the heralds are breaching it.

Well, i give you credit for telling your biased lies in a calmer manner than you usually do.

Originally posted by cdtm
I don't know, that's a LOT of heralds.

Silver Surfer alone I'd put on a PC Kryptonian's level (Boo all you want, Norrin was crossing galaxies and evolving races, and beating skyfather+/Abstract Uni-Lord when Superman was stuck on Earth post crisis and needed a GL ride to travel).


DEMONIC LIES!!!!

Originally posted by abhilegend
?
Originally posted by abhilegend
Better than Thing did? That's why White Witch is there.

?

Originally posted by riv6672
Well, i give you credit for telling your biased lies in a calmer manner than you usually do.
I like how you proved these "lies" without posting a single proof. Originally posted by celeyhyga17
?
Herald Destroyer was stalemated by Thing.

Anyway, Mysa absorbs all the power from Destroyer like she did to Mordru after he absorbed the magic of an entire universe.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Herald Destroyer was stalemated by Thing.

facepalm

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's a fact. You can call it a flash fact as well. Lanterns fly to and from center of universe to the edge of the universe all the time. Surfer in his entire history never does that.

Read some LOSH comics. The ring provides a force field as well.

Superman has bounced off the force field. None of the heralds are breaching it.

Superman called Kyle Rayner point blank the fastest flier, so yeah.

The thing is, due to a rings computer, I believe a GL's manuverability and reflex's absolutely can match a Kryptonians. We've seen Hal Jordan suddenly accelerating at speeds said to be way faster then sound, skimming buildings, to tackle Sinestro, without doing much collateral damage.

As for Norrin, I wasn't "admitting" his speed is all about his board. If all he could do was fly in a straight line, it wouldn't make any sense to recruit him to try and grab the Infinity Gauntlet, since the best he could do is collide with him and hope it pops off..

My point more, was on that board he could simply ram through every lesser character at top speeds, even if his personal speed wasn't up to it. Or hell, he could have the board do the work and go engage a non flier, whatever..

Originally posted by abhilegend
I like how you proved these "lies" without posting a single proof.

Good deal.
I like how you consider your opinion actual proof.
I was right, in that you went with (a variation of) data sheets mean nothing.
You've never been shy about posting scans (many times hilariously misinterpreted to your liking) down everyone's throats to prove your point, but in this case you've posted nothing.
If you actually proved what you're saying, i'd have no problem apologizing to you.
Heck i'll do it now preemptively:
"You were right this time, abhi. My bad."
Feel free to take that to heart if you arent just spouting bias. But like i said, i dont believe you.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Maybe he can use that speed to run away from Superman.

Are you sure you want to compare who has beaten who? Surfer was amped as hell against unilord and it's non canon anyway.

Surfer couldn't even beat Henshaw when they met. Forget about Superman.
You mean in the fight that got interrupted before it was finished? Another way of saying it is that a more versatile version of Supes couldn't beat Surfer. Also, didn't Surfer prove that his speed was too much for Henshaw to even land a shot once he decided to use it?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
facepalm
Maybe you should read the comic.

mmm

Originally posted by cdtm
Superman called Kyle Rayner point blank the fastest flier, so yeah.


And then Superman outflew every GL in Infinite Crisis and Final Crisis.

So yeah, him giving lip service to Kyle in his own book doesn't makes much changes.


Even Impulse has speedblitzed Kyle into a pulp. Forget about Superman or Flash.

Flying in a straight line doesn't makes you a Speedster.

He even missed that one. And yes, he flew straight ahead and missed it. If he was as fast as you think he is, he could've moved himself to grab it again.

Instead he kept it going on straight ahead.




That's not how he fights.

Originally posted by riv6672
Good deal.
I like how you consider your opinion actual proof.
I was right, in that you went with (a variation of) data sheets mean nothing.
You've never been shy about posting scans (many times hilariously misinterpreted to your liking) down everyone's throats to prove your point, but in this case you've posted nothing.
If you actually proved what you're saying, i'd have no problem apologizing to you.
Heck i'll do it now preemptively:
"You were right this time, abhi. My bad."
Feel free to take that to heart if you arent just spouting bias. But like i said, i dont believe you.
The same Riv BS tactics as ever. "You didn't post a scan so I am right. "

You're a waste of time and space.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
You mean in the fight that got interrupted before it was finished? Another way of saying it is that a more versatile version of Supes couldn't beat Surfer.

Henshaw didn't use anything but strength and HV and one blast of his arm cannon. If he had actually used some versatility you might have a point.

Henshaw never uses speed in a fight. He also laughed at Surfer's attacks and asked "is that it"?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Maybe you should read the comic.

mmm

This happened during their encounter. Heck at one point early on, the Destoyer wasn't even fighting back.
http://oi63.tinypic.com/nmgfib.jpg

Why? Because Galactus cared little for the outcome. Interesting take you have there. Then again why would anyone be surprised?

http://oi66.tinypic.com/auff9g.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
Henshaw didn't use anything but strength and HV and one blast of his arm cannon. If he had actually used some versatility you might have a point.

Henshaw never uses speed in a fight. He also laughed at Surfer's attacks and asked "is that it"?
Was Surfer was flying around at a distance? Were they at close range when Henshaw was telling him to hold still? Also Surfer during that period was the type who always held back.

Originally posted by abhilegend
The same Riv BS tactics as ever. "You didn't post a scan so I am right. "

You're a waste of time and space.
Guess i get to have fun at your expense, then. Because i always have fun with you.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
This happened during their encounter. Heck at one point early on, the Destoyer wasn't even fighting back.
http://oi63.tinypic.com/nmgfib.jpg

Why? Because Galactus cared little for the outcome. Interesting take you have there. Then again why would anyone be surprised?

http://oi66.tinypic.com/auff9g.jpg
Yes, Galactus took away his life force which was powering Destroyer, it has nothing to do with the fact that Thing did stalemate Destroyer in a fight.

http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/27044624_3319556-0282529.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/27044625_3319557-0282829.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/27044626_3319558-0282929.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/27044627_3319559-0283229.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/27044628_3319560-0283329.jpg

Its the only fight Destroyer as herald was in, so we can use only this to gauge it. Did I ever say Thing defeated him or whatever BS you are saying?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Was Surfer was flying around at a distance? Were they at close range when Henshaw was telling him to hold still? Also Surfer during that period was the type who always held back.
Surfer was dodging HVs like his life depended on it like a ballerina.

Not to someone who destroyed a planet and when he goes "Mine is the power cosmic" speech.
Originally posted by riv6672
Guess i get to have fun at your expense, then. Because i always have fun with you.
Oh you. Here you go with force field rings.

http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/27044629_10_10.jpg http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/27044630_10_11.jpg http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/27044631_10_12.jpg

Not even Superman can breach it.

Nice!

Refer to my earlier post.
Though i have to wonder if that particular feature has ever been used before or since, context, etcetera. Knowing Brainiac, it may have been a mission specific function. It may also have bern assumption on the writer's part.
Its happened before.

But, hey, i stand by my earlier preemptive apology.
And i still have fun with you.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, Galactus took away his life force which was powering Destroyer, it has nothing to do with the fact that Thing did stalemate Destroyer in a fight.


Its the only fight Destroyer as herald was in, so we can use only this to gauge it. Did I ever say Thing defeated him or whatever BS you are saying?
Glad you finally admitted that Thing fought a Destroyer that had basically stopped fighting back early in the fight.

I know you deal in half-truths all the time, but it's a good step forward.. Then again you probably would never have mentioned beyond claims of a "stalemate" if you weren't called out on it.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Glad you finally admitted that Thing fought a Destroyer that had basically stopped fighting back early in the fight.




Here we go with strawman and red herrings.



crylaugh

Oh you.

Originally posted by riv6672
Nice!

Refer to my earlier post.
Though i have to wonder if that particular feature has ever been used before or since, context, etcetera. Knowing Brainiac, it may have been a mission specific function. It may also have bern assumption on the writer's part.
Its happened before.

But, hey, i stand by my earlier preemptive apology.
And i still have fun with you.
Yeah, so even with posting scans of this doesn't changes your mind.

Color me unsurprised.

If by fun you mean trolling and passive aggressive bitching, yes I agree.

For cdtm.

http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/27045185_nt116-013.jpg http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/27045186_nt116-014.jpg

http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/27045187_03_Silver_Age_JLA_01GLSVSSPEED.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/27045188_03_Silver_Age_JLA_01GLSVSSPEED2.jpg

Lanterns are such speedsters.

With surfer,morg with WOL and destroyer,heralds would probably win

Depends on which White Witch we're using.

Originally posted by abhilegend
For cdtm.

http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/27045185_nt116-013.jpg http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/27045186_nt116-014.jpg

http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/27045187_03_Silver_Age_JLA_01GLSVSSPEED.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/27045188_03_Silver_Age_JLA_01GLSVSSPEED2.jpg

Lanterns are such speedsters.



http://0.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com/33/83/2d9fa1d138e3a9bc2a6bbf4f9c22978d.jpg

Speedsters are such jobbers.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, so even with posting scans of this doesn't changes your mind.

Color me unsurprised.

If by fun you mean trolling and passive aggressive bitching, yes I agree.
Aw man, you're really gonna hate this then.
I have to retract my apology.

I farmed your scans, and our conversation (for context), out to a LoSH subject matter expert yesterday, and had a response waiting this morning.
He pointed out a few things.

The scans you posted display a mission specific function, as the story cited had the LoSH using huge amounts of prep. Its likely why you didnt post them initially, as a more LoSH savvy poster might have pointed that out.
Booster Gold famously used a Legion flight ring and B5 FF belt to set himself up as a hero. If the ring could have performed more than the one function, he wouldnt have needed the belt to perform the other. Neither would B5 for that matter.
If the entire LoSH had anything near B5 level FF generating ability, it would have been used in countless stories, over several versions. He cited the Legion of 3 Worlds storyline, where a trio of distinct teams fought for their lives, against Superboy Prime, a villain intent on literally ripping them apart. No FFs.

No hard feelings, though. Well, not on my part.

Are there any trans tiers in this legion team?

Originally posted by riv6672
http://0.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com/33/83/2d9fa1d138e3a9bc2a6bbf4f9c22978d.jpg

Speedsters are such jobbers.



Yeah, Flash when he was restricted to Mach 1. Great going.

Really.

Originally posted by riv6672
Aw man, you're really gonna hate this then.
I have to retract my apology.

I farmed your scans, and our conversation (for context), out to a LoSH subject matter expert yesterday, and had a response waiting this morning.
He pointed out a few things.

The scans you posted display a mission specific function, as the story cited had the LoSH using huge amounts of prep. Its likely why you didnt post them initially, as a more LoSH savvy poster might have pointed that out.
Booster Gold famously used a Legion flight ring and B5 FF belt to set himself up as a hero. If the ring could have performed more than the one function, he wouldnt have needed the belt to perform the other. Neither would B5 for that matter.
If the entire LoSH had anything near B5 level FF generating ability, it would have been used in countless stories, over several versions. He cited the Legion of 3 Worlds storyline, where a trio of distinct teams fought for their lives, against Superboy Prime, a villain intent on literally ripping them apart. No FFs.

No hard feelings, though. Well, not on my part.
I'd like to see this Legion expert which has the proof it being mission specific. The rings were standard rings

The force fields are standard for LOSH. Heck, it's all which stops Superman when powerless survive in Vacuum here.

Along with every other human level legionnaires.

Originally posted by Genii96
Are there any trans tiers in this legion team?

Yes, White Witch who defeated Mordru after he had absorbed magic of two universes.

Originally posted by riv6672
Aw man, you're really gonna hate this then.
I have to retract my apology.

I farmed your scans, and our conversation (for context), out to a LoSH subject matter expert yesterday, and had a response waiting this morning.
He pointed out a few things.

The scans you posted display a mission specific function, as the story cited had the LoSH using huge amounts of prep. Its likely why you didnt post them initially, as a more LoSH savvy poster might have pointed that out.
Booster Gold famously used a Legion flight ring and B5 FF belt to set himself up as a hero. If the ring could have performed more than the one function, he wouldnt have needed the belt to perform the other. Neither would B5 for that matter.
If the entire LoSH had anything near B5 level FF generating ability, it would have been used in countless stories, over several versions. He cited the Legion of 3 Worlds storyline, where a trio of distinct teams fought for their lives, against Superboy Prime, a villain intent on literally ripping them apart. No FFs.

No hard feelings, though. Well, not on my part.

I DEMAND THAT YOU BRING THIS LOSH EXPERT HERE BEFORE ME!!!

^^^Thats nice.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I'd like to see this Legion expert which has the proof it being mission specific. The rings were standard rings

The force fields are standard for LOSH. Heck, it's all which stops Superman when powerless survive in Vacuum here.

Along with every other human level legionnaires.

The rings providing ff for environmental protection is pretty standard post COIE (at least main continuity, they no longer had their suits designed by Brainy). But that a far cry from what was shown i lightning sagare the rings. Now I'll grant it never stated they were specifically prepared that way for the mission, but I certainly cant think of another instance when the rings showed FF's of that level.

They never have to my knowledge, either. There's too many times when a personal force field would have been handy, or saved a human legionnaire from harm or danger.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Surfer was dodging HVs like his life depended on it like a ballerina.

Not to someone who destroyed a planet and when he goes "Mine is the power cosmic" speech.


Nice attempts at deflecting... but it's not going to work.

1.Was the fight interrupted before it was finished?

2. Is the fight that Henshaw can't beat Surfer?

3. Was Surfer's speed too much for Cyborg(a being with a Kryptonian physiology and a computerized brain) once he decided he didn't want to be hit anymore?

Now in regards to your deflections, almost all of the links are dead but Avy made several post in Henshaw's respect thread and claimed that they showed Cyborg demonstrated super speed. Don't get me wrong because Avy was notorious for misrepresenting scans too, I'm just wondering if those were cases of his twisting of things at work? Also, in one of the few scans in that thread that do work, Cyborg used his speed to tear Doomsday a new one so what about that?

Was there anything to indicate that Surfer was dodging HV because his life depended on it other than him dodging successfully enough to enrage Cyborg? Do we assume that Supes is dodging like his life depends on it just because he starts dodging attacks?

And sure he'd still hold back, during that period he almost never went for the kill. Did he say anything to indicate that he was giving it his all? I mean other than saying "mine is the power cosmic"(which he says A LOT)?

Originally posted by beatboks
The rings providing ff for environmental protection is pretty standard post COIE (at least main continuity, they no longer had their suits designed by Brainy). But that a far cry from what was shown i lightning sagare the rings. Now I'll grant it never stated they were specifically prepared that way for the mission, but I certainly cant think of another instance when the rings showed FF's of that level.
Originally posted by cdtm
They never have to my knowledge, either. There's too many times when a personal force field would have been handy, or saved a human legionnaire from harm or danger.

Pretty much what i was told.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Nice attempts at deflecting... but it's not going to work.



Everything you say is a deflection. Now you are accusing me of it?



Yes, by Parallax. Cyborg tanked his cheapshot as well.



Surfer can't beat Henshaw as well?



Nope. Cyborg isn't a speedster in general terms. Superman has blitzed the shit out of him on several occasions.



Flying in a straight line isn't using speed. Every top tier does that.



He didn't mention anything about enraging Henshaw.

Since when Surfer started dodging attacks though?That's a very OOC tactic for him and unless he thought it was dangerous for him, he wouldn't do it.

But nice strawman for "enraging henshaw."



Superman doesn't dodges attacks too. Not from puny Henshaw. Under the same writer Ron Marz, Superman did this to Cyborg.

Superman starts this match greatly depowered. Adventures Of #563
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/adventuresof563a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/adventuresof563b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/adventuresof563c.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/adventuresof563d.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/adventuresof563e.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/adventuresof563f.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/adventuresof563g.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/adventuresof563h.jpg

Heck, Superman didn't dodge his attacks when he was amped on an entire techno planet.

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/ManOfSteel052c.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/ManOfSteel052d.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/ManOfSteel052e.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/ManOfSteel052f.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/ManOfSteel052g.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/ManOfSteel052h.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/ManOfSteel052i.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/ManOfSteel052j.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Battles/villains/ManOfSteel052k.jpg




He just saw Henshaw killing an entire planet and went berserk on that itself.

Point me to the scene where he says "Mine is the power cosmic" while witnessing the death of a planet and not going berserk?

Thought this was done. Interesting tangent.

I say heralds. ( I may be a bit biased tho )

What are your matchups, complex?

The Heralds DIE!!!!!!!

^^^You forgot your bold red font for extra meaninglessness.

Originally posted by riv6672
^^^You forgot your bold red font for extra meaninglessness.

WATCH YOUR TONE, PEON!!!

Much better.

Bump

Thanks for the bump.