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Fight takes place in Ruined Cairo

Who wins?

Which Superman?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Which Superman?

BVS

non-jobbing Superman should win

Apocalypse stomps tbh.

Says the guy who has not seen the movie.

I bought the movie last night.

No you didn't.

This matchup.... It's contextual and has many deciding factors about it.

To me, it's a big what if. Apoc has the tools to put Supes down, but Supes also has the tools to put Apoc down.

This will be a looooong debate...

Apoc reads his mind then creates kryptonite.

Remember he easily recreated Erik's TP blocking helmet from scratch.

Superman aint getting past his shields.

Apocalypse wins 10/10.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
This matchup.... It's contextual and has many deciding factors about it.

To me, it's a big what if. Apoc has the tools to put Supes down, but Supes also has the tools to put Apoc down.

This will be a looooong debate...

This is a non fight.... Apoc stomps

Originally posted by Estacado
Apoc reads his mind then creates kryptonite.

Remember he easily recreated Erik's TP blocking helmet from scratch.

Superman aint getting past his shields.
Does superman even know what kryptonite is? As far as he know its just a magic spear batman made.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Does superman even know what kryptonite is? As far as he know its just a magic spear batman made.

Magneto only knew that his helmet was a helmet Shaw wore. And he maybe knew it was created by the Russians. He didn't know the design, just what it did(block telepathy) and Apocalypse made a perfect replica.

Why couldn't he read Clark's mind and say hmmm, green space mineral that hurts him a lot? Done. And then he telekinetically shoves it in his mouth.

Because Kryptonite is not only not from this world, it's not even from his own universe?

He's still shown to be able to manipulate matter to create something from the thoughts of a person.

If he can make something as advanced as a psi-blocker helmet, right down to the design, dimensions, and color. He should be able to make a space rock. There's 100% more evidence he can do it than he can't.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
No you didn't.

Apoc beats the shit out of Kal...

Originally posted by carver9
Apocalypse stomps tbh.



I just saw it; nothing short of Jean embracing the full Phoenix Force is beating Apoc...

Originally posted by KingD19
He's still shown to be able to manipulate matter to create something from the thoughts of a person.

If he can make something as advanced as a psi-blocker helmet, right down to the design, dimensions, and color. He should be able to make a space rock. There's 100% more evidence he can do it than he can't.



As depicted in Age of Apocalypse, the full Phoenix Force is the only thing I've seen in a Marvel or DC movie beyond Apoc...

Originally posted by KingD19
He's still shown to be able to manipulate matter to create something from the thoughts of a person.

If he can make something as advanced as a psi-blocker helmet, right down to the design, dimensions, and color. He should be able to make a space rock. There's 100% more evidence he can do it than he can't.

But yet creating a helmet doesn't mean you can magically whip up elements from other universes though. You can refer to it as a mere "space rock" in an attempt to try to say Apocalypse can create, but the fact of the matter is creating kryptonite is a far cry from what he created before. An element that doesn't exist on Earth or even in the universe as a whole. Creating a helmet constructed with known materials really doesn't even begin to compare.

I just don't know why we'd handwave him creating exotic alien materials because he created a helmet.

EDIT: Also just out of curiosity..how do you know how much Magneto knew about his helmet?

Honestly Apoc doesn't need K-Nite. He most likely beats Superman without it.

Originally posted by Surtur
But yet creating a helmet doesn't mean you can magically whip up elements from other universes though. You can refer to it as a mere "space rock" in an attempt to try to say Apocalypse can create, but the fact of the matter is creating kryptonite is a far cry from what he created before. An element that doesn't exist on Earth or even in the universe as a whole. Creating a helmet constructed with known materials really doesn't even begin to compare.

I just don't know why we'd handwave him creating exotic alien materials because he created a helmet.

EDIT: Also just out of curiosity..how do you know how much Magneto knew about his helmet?

This is true, but Kryptonite is a rock with radioactive element that weakens and harms Superman. If he is able to figure out Superman's physiological structure; he could figure what radioactive elements to create to replicate Kryptonite.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder


I just saw it; nothing short of Jean embracing the full Phoenix Force is beating Apoc...

No limits fallacy.

He almost lost his head to Psy..While Apoc is cool, he can still be torn apart or tossed into space.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
No limits fallacy.

He almost lost his head to Psy..While Apoc is cool, he can still be torn apart or tossed into space.

You mean when Mystique disguised as Psylocke tried to slit his throat?

And unless Clark can get rid of his armor(which takes a whole lot), he's basically invulnerable and can instantly heal any damage.

And it's hard to toss a guy into space when he can just teleport.

He almost lost his head to her.

Superman takes his head off without even trying.

This is a massive difference in speed and strength and durability.

MOS has light speed feats and his strength and durability are beyond anything Apoc could handle.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder


As depicted in Age of Apocalypse, the full Phoenix Force is the only thing I've seen in a Marvel or DC movie beyond Apoc... Bs. Apoc is vastly overrated.

You say almost lost his head. But he literally let her cut him, looked at her like she was stupid, and healed in 2 seconds. That was because he let her hit him. He has forcefields I don't see Clark getting through. Telepathy and mind control Clark doesn't have defenses against. And matter manipulation Clark can't fight.

Originally posted by Surtur
EDIT: Also just out of curiosity..how do you know how much Magneto knew about his helmet?

He didn't.

The original helmet was made for Sebastian Shaw by his Russian contacts. He had it made after he recruited Emma Frost. Shaw was rather paranoid regarding psychics. He knew that there was a definite probability that other psionic mutants existed, and thus had the helmet made, which he tested with Emma to make sure it worked.

The specifics of the helmets construction, other than it was some sort of metallic substances/alloys were used, was not made known to the audience. However, this raises 2 possible ways for Apocalypse to have learned it.

#1: He either got it when he literally downloaded all the computerised information through the television and radiowave broadcasts earlier in the movie.

#2: Or he got the info when he highjacked Xavier and Cerebro psionically, and for a long time, he had access to the minds and thoughts of the entire global population.

In either event, it wouldn't be hard for him to learn of the structure of kryptonite through various human corporations like Lexcorp or STARLabs who routinely use and experiment with the stuff. Once he has that info, he doesn't need to learn human techniques of making the stuff, or locating more, as he can simply atomically create the stuff out of thin air, or emit it's unique radiation through his powers easily enough.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Bs. Apoc is vastly overrated.

Agreed

Originally posted by KingD19
You say almost lost his head. But he literally let her cut him, looked at her like she was stupid, and healed in 2 seconds. That was because he let her hit him. He has forcefields I don't see Clark getting through. Telepathy and mind control Clark doesn't have defenses against. And matter manipulation Clark can't fight.

Its not me saying it, its screen feats, she Msy cut him deep and it took more then 2 seconds to heal.

It does not matter if he let her or not, the point is, he was cut.

Telepathy is a non issue here as he cannot control anyone or use TP on anyone that does not have TP. That mind fight was between other Tp's

Dont even think about applying it as his base core of feats and powers.

The whole point of the movie was he wanted that power to have access to everyone and guess what, he didn't get it, so its not his power, he never got it, and he can't use it on Clark

/

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Its not me saying it, its screen feats, she Msy cut him deep and it took more then 2 seconds to heal.

It does not matter if he let her or not, the point is, he was cut.

Telepathy is a non issue here as he cannot control anyone or use TP on anyone that does not have TP. That mind fight was between other Tp's

Dont even think about applying it as his base core of feats and powers.

The whole point of the movie was he wanted that power to have access to everyone and guess what, he didn't get it, so its not his power, he never got it, and he can't use it on Clark.

Actually... IIRC Apoc did have TP, just not Xavier's range where he could do it to the globe all at once. Apoc can get into individual minds just fine. He mindjacked Xavier twice after all, and once was through Cerebro.

Originally posted by KingD19
He's still shown to be able to manipulate matter to create something from the thoughts of a person.

If he can make something as advanced as a psi-blocker helmet, right down to the design, dimensions, and color. He should be able to make a space rock. There's 100% more evidence he can do it than he can't.

So because he could replicate a Russian era helmet, he can create Knite.

Thats not how it works.

He cannot create knite, its not even from the same verse.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Actually... IIRC Apoc did have TP, just not Xavier's range where he could do it to the globe all at once. Apoc can get into individual minds just fine. He mindjacked Xavier twice after all, and once was through Cerebro.

He only had access once Xavier linked with him from cerebro. Cut it out, just cut the shit and lies right now. Apoc had zero TP ability besides his own metal defense, hence the point of the whole movie and wanting Charles powers.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
He only had access once Xavier linked with him from cerebro. Cut it out, just cut the shit and lies right now.

Calm down a little, I did say IIRC. Maybe I am wrong, but to me it looked like he jacked Xavier and Cerebro, THROUGH Erik no less. Xavier never linked directly to Apoc, En Sabah Nur forced that connection through Erik.

This is compounded when Apoc jacked Xavier directly when they were face to face to make his announcement to the world.

So, from the way I can see it, the only reason Apoc wanted Xavier's powers, was so he could cut out the middleman and mindjack the planet's population directly himself. That's not, shit, or lies, that's just how I interpreted the movie.

He did link directly to him, he said so himself. There is no mis interpretation what he actually said.

Apoc was telling Charles what to say, hence him saying it with his mouth and charles repeating it through his head to the world.

Xavier "Without Cerebro, I cannot do it"

Apoc "Why do you need a machine when you have me."

All APOC did was act like cerebro and enhance his power.

This is straight up movie feats that how could you forget if you just watched it last night like I did.

I suspect most will just make up shit and keep making it up until they get called out on it.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Calm down a little, I did say IIRC. Maybe I am wrong, but to me it looked like he jacked Xavier and Cerebro, THROUGH Erik no less. Xavier never linked directly to Apoc, En Sabah Nur forced that connection through Erik.

This is compounded when Apoc jacked Xavier directly when they were face to face to make his announcement to the world.

So, from the way I can see it, the only reason Apoc wanted Xavier's powers, was so he could cut out the middleman and mindjack the planet's population directly himself. That's not, shit, or lies, that's just how I interpreted the movie.


That is exactly what happened.

Xavier also says that Apocalypse used his own mental powers on the Horsemen, twisting them to suit his needs. And he easily blocked them from Xavier's own powers.

I want a public apology from Estacado for lying about Erik's shields being impenetrable. Straight up lie.

So them turning on him? Thats his mind control what? Not working?

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
He did link directly to him, he said so himself. There is no mis interpretation what he actually said.

Apoc was telling Charles what to say, hence him saying it with his mouth and charles repeating it through his head to the world.

All APOC did was act like cerebro and enhance his power.

Not the first time he didn't. He was talking with Erik when Apoc noticed what was going on. Apoc wouldn't have noticed a mental transfer without mental powers, AKA Psionics.

I dunno what to tell you dude... Thats the way the movie has been interpreted, by almost everyone who has seen the movie.

http://xmenmovies.wikia.com/wiki/Apocalypse I mean it IS right there, in the powers and abilities list...

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
So them turning on him? Thats his mind control what? Not working?

Nope, Like I said, his TP is singularly focused. He can't TP a mass of people. And at the time of the betrayals, Apoc was being quintuple teamed in a lot of different ways, including Erik, Phoenix, Xavier, Ororo and Scott.

haermm

You phuckin moron I never said they are impenetrable I said Loki is not getting past it.....

Originally posted by Estacado
haermm

You phuckin moron I never said they are impenetrable I said Loki is not getting past it.....

Wrong thread you phuckin moron

haermm

Originally posted by Estacado
haermm

You phuckin moron I never said they are impenetrable I said Loki is not getting past it..... Yes, you did. Do not lie now. Just because QS couldn't get through that doesn't mean Loki can't since he has more powerful feats. Magneto doesn't start a thread with that shield anyways that took time.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Wrong thread you phuckin moron

haermm


Estacado is an idiot.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Not the first time he didn't. He was talking with Erik when Apoc noticed what was going on. Apoc wouldn't have noticed a mental transfer without mental powers, AKA Psionics.

I dunno what to tell you dude... Thats the way the movie has been interpreted, by almost everyone who has seen the movie.

http://xmenmovies.wikia.com/wiki/Apocalypse I mean it IS right there, in the powers and abilities list...



Nope, Like I said, his TP is singularly focused. He can't TP a mass of people. And at the time of the betrayals, Apoc was being quintuple teamed in a lot of different ways, including Erik, Phoenix, Xavier, Ororo and Scott.

Didn't seem like he was mind controlling anyone when they all turned on him. So lets see, he can now control a alien being a million times more powerful then those mutants?

It doesn't work that way.

In a vs fight, Clark aint waiting around for some weak TP attack..he's a light speed flying brick that has basically un ending strength, speed, and durability.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Wrong thread you phuckin moron

haermm
My bad....haermm

Says the dumbshit who cant even comprahend what happened between Apoc and Xavier.....

Originally posted by Estacado
My bad....haermm

Says the dumbshit who cant even comprahend what happened between Apoc and Xavier.....

Says the dumbshit who can't spell "comprehend", or even post in the right thread and tried to spoil the movie for everyone.

Can you comprehend that?

Originally posted by Estacado
My bad....haermm

Says the dumbshit who cant even comprahend what happened between Apoc and Xavier..... You are an apoc fanboy. He looked like shit in the film you dolt. He got crushed too. He went buh byes.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Says the dumbshit who can't spell "comprehend", or even post in the right thread and tried to spoil the movie for everyone.

Can you comprehend that?
My native language isnt even english you jackass.

Try learning something like hungarian which is like the 2nd most difficult in the world...haermm

Looks like English is the second easiest language to learn, which explains your difficulty with it.

http://www.fluentin3months.com/forum/general-discussion/what-are-top-3-easiest-languages-to-learn-here-is-my-list-post-your-now/

Can you comprehend that?

Originally posted by Estacado
My native language isnt even english you jackass.

Try learning something like hungarian which is like the 2nd most difficult in the world...haermm Go to a Hungarian message board you loser. Not my fault our culture is way better than your shitty one.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Looks like English is the second easiest language to learn, which explains your difficulty with it.

http://www.fluentin3months.com/forum/general-discussion/what-are-top-3-easiest-languages-to-learn-here-is-my-list-post-your-now/

Can you comprehend that?
You cant even quote you dumbass....haermm

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Didn't seem like he was mind controlling anyone when they all turned on him. So lets see, he can now control a alien being a million times more powerful then those mutants?

I don't think he used TP on them any more than subtle suggestion. He is also a very skilled orator and manipulator even without it. His shtick with the Horsemen recruitment is tempting them. That doesn't discount the times he did use it however.

As to your supposition, Superman is indeed, physically faster and stronger than Apoc, and I do not dispute this. But, as a few others have stated here, Superman is not necessarily shielded from mental attacks, not can he protect himself from transmutation or atomization.

That being said, Superman, the character, doesn't go immendiately for the Lightspeed infinite mass punch as an opening move. The only reason Supes would do this right out of the gate is if he had prep time and propr knowledge of Apoc's abilities IMHO.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
In a vs fight, Clark aint waiting around for some weak TP attack..he's a light speed flying brick that has basically un ending strength, speed, and durability.

Ok, I'll try saying this another way. Apoc's TP isn't weak, it just lacks the broad range and scope of Xavier's TP.

See above. vs match it is, yes, but what makes you think Superman would go immediately for the lightspeed uber strength infinite mass punch?

Ok but that wont kill Superman, and he BFR'd DD pretty quick when he saw what was going on.

This isn't a TP fight, and Apoc cant make superman kill himself with TP.

I dont even think he needs a light speed punch, he just needs to remove his head.

Apoc shown that he can be pierced very easily. Head removed wont even make MoS sweat.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Ok but that wont kill Superman, and he BFR'd DD pretty quick when he saw what was going on.

I dont even think he needs a light speed punch, he just needs to remove his head.

Apoc shown that he can be pierced very easily. Head removed wont even make MoS sweat.

The answer to that would be very rapid healing and regeneration that makes Wolverine look tame. Then there is teleportation, AND, then we have Apoc reacting to high speed speedsters before, when he trapped Quicksiver in mid run, while the kid was smashing Apoc with hits that were so fast their impact was insane, like massively insane.

iEdited.

Apoc still relys on human bodies, that means, brains, heart, all that stuff.

If he removes his head, he is not healing and growing a new head.

QS is fast, but he is not light speed fast.

Estacado ran off.

Originally posted by Estacado
You cant even quote you dumbass....haermm

Oh really, seems I quoted you just find, comprehend?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Estacado ran off.
Nah....

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Oh really, seems I quoted you just find, comprehend?
Says the dude who claims Apoc doesnt have TP after clearly reading Magneto's mind.....yeah you are dumb as hell...

He has TP, he doesn't have the ability to kill Superman with it, can you comprehend that, yea you are stupid as hell, Hungarian.

Originally posted by Estacado
Nah....


Says the dude who claims Apoc doesnt have TP after clearly reading Magneto's mind.....yeah you are dumb as hell... Why are you so stupid ? Please answer.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
He has TP, he doesn't have the ability to kill Superman with it, can you comprehend that, yea you are stupid as hell, Hungarian.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
LOOOOOOL

At everyone saying Apoc had TP!!!

What a bunch of ****ing loonie retards!!

ITS LIKE THE MOVIE JUST CAME OUT AND THEY ALREADY LYING THROUGH THEIR TEETH




Nice job dumbshit...

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
This isn't a TP fight, and Apoc cant make superman kill himself with TP.

Err... Thats not how that works. If Apoc got into Superman's head, he could shut his mind down entirely. Xavier feared this outcome of overusing Cerebro in the earlier X-films.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
iEdited.

Thanks.


Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Apoc still relys on human bodies, that means, brains, heart, all that stuff.

Yeah... Superman has all these organs as well. Transmutation can literally turn all of these into sand and dust and ash.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
If he removes his head, he is not healing and growing a new head.

If I wanted to be pedantic, I could say Apoc's armor could regrow his head via transmutation and matter manipulation, but lets not go there. Instead, I am going to posit you a thesis. If you say Superman goes for the near lightspeed head removal, then #1: how is he getting through Apoc's shield. #2: Why won't TP freeze Superman, or kill him? #3: How is he preventing himself from being powderised at the first step?

I'm not going to say Apoc definitely wins here, I'm just trying to get everyone to get their points on the table is all... It's become a habit in these debates that people tend to only go for the 1 hit iwinbutton arguments, and... to be honest, thats just boring.

Im talking about his ability to kill people with TP, since you can't even speak English, I would not expect you to understand. ****ing Hungarian.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Err... Thats not how that works. If Apoc got into Superman's head, he could shut his mind down entirely. Xavier feared this outcome of overusing Cerebro in the earlier X-films.



Thanks.




Yeah... Superman has all these organs as well. Transmutation can literally turn all of these into sand and dust and ash.



If I wanted to be pedantic, I could say Apoc's armor could regrow his head via transmutation and matter manipulation, but lets not go there. Instead, I am going to posit you a thesis. If you say Superman goes for the near lightspeed head removal, then #1: how is he getting through Apoc's shield. #2: Why won't TP freeze Superman, or kill him? #3: How is he preventing himself from being powderised at the first step?

I'm not going to say Apoc definitely wins here, I'm just trying to get everyone to get their points on the table is all... It's become a habit in these debates that people tend to only go for the 1 hit iwinbutton arguments, and... to be honest, thats just boring.

How would he regrow his head? And how would his armor re grow his head? Where is the slightest evidence on this?

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Im talking about his ability to kill people with TP, since you can't even speak English, I would not expect you to understand. ****ing Hungarian.
Apoc never killed anybody with tp noone ever claimed he could kill Superman with tp.

Sheesh your an idiot...

So why is TP even an issue and why are people talking about it you retard?

Quit sucking on Apocs blue cock and balls.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
How would he regrow his head? And how would his armor re grow his head? Where is the slightest evidence on this?

Like I said, it's pedantic, and I wouldn't bring that up as an actual point. But IIRC, his armor is of alien origin. It's also a life support system and a means of protecting Apoc from some pretty severe stuff.

Reading his moves?

http://xmenmovies.wikia.com/wiki/Apocalypse

Powers.

Apocalypse's Armor - Apocalypse's mighty armor enhances his physical abilities to immense superhuman levels, making him seemingly unstoppable while wearing it.

Superhuman Strength - Apocalypse has immense superhuman strength, making him one of the physically strongest mutants (on par with Juggernaut and Colossus), able to effortlessly beat an immobilized Quicksilver to the ground (breaking his leg with a single kick) and easily strangle and lift Mystique above his head.

Superhuman Durability - Apocalypse is incredibly durable (further contributed to by his mighty armor), thus able to withstand several supersonic punches and kicks from Quicksilver and a blast from Phoenix. However, once Magneto and Jean Grey dismantled his armor, Apocalypse was pierced by the tremendous torrent of high-speed metal projectiles of Magneto, and incinerated by the flames of Phoenix.

Regenerative Healing Factor - After he transferred his life essence into a new Mutant's body, who had instantaneous healing, he gained a rapid healing factor. He demonstrated this power, when Mystique (disguised as Psylocke) slit his throat or when Storm burned him with lightning. In both cases, he recovered immediately and his wounds healed instantly. Even with his Armor ripped off, he was still healing from disintegration caused by the Phoenix. However, when Phoenix was at full power, he started completely disintegrating.

Adaptive Reflexes - Apocalypse is able to enhance his reflexes to superhuman levels, as when he did in his brief battle with the supersonically fast Quicksilver, to see through the latter's movements and react to them, though this ability took several seconds to activate.

Essence Transference Ritual - Apocalypse is able to transfer his life essence into a younger body after his previous one grows old (though he requires an ancient Egyptian altar for this ritual), thereby starting another life. He also gains the powers of the new body whilst keeping all his previously-collected powers. This massive collection of powers have caused him to appear to be a seemingly omnipotent being. He intended to thus inhabit the body of Professor X through this same ritual (which is what causes the professor to lose his hair), but Nightcrawler interrupts it just in time.

Longevity - Apocalypse is able to live for millennia, being the first mutant of all, having been worshiped as Elohim, Shem, Ra, Krishna, Yahweh and others by several ancient civilizations during his many lives, transferring his life essence into a younger body after his previous one grows old. However, Apocalypse is still capable of being killed, seen when Phoenix incinerated his body after Magneto dismantled Apocalypse's mighty armor and pierced him with a torrent of metal projectiles. However, he has survived in the same body for centuries, possibly due to his enhanced healing.

Host Power Absorption - Every time Apocalypse's essence enters a new host body (which takes the appearance of sapphire-blue gaseous energy), not only retains all of his previous abilities, but also gains the abilities of his host, which he assimilates into his life essence. Thus, Apocalypse intended to absorb Professor X's telepathic abilities into himself this way, which would have amplified his telepathic abilities to Godly levels.

Advanced Telekinesis - Apocalypse has such potent telekinetic abilities, which borders on Matter Manipulation. Apocalypse can levitate objects with his mind, which allowed him to pull fine stone particles from walls (instantly killing many men with them), levitate cars and other large objects, and to even telekinetically construct multiple massive Egyptian pyramids. He was able to manipulate matter (even the matter of his own body) on a molecular level, which allows him to greatly expand his physical size, though it is unknown whether this is an effect of mental manipulation only, as he is only seen doing this while battling Professor X in the astral plane. Apocalypse also utilized this power to fuse his opponents within walls or the ground (thus managing to immobilize both Cyclops and Quicksilver), and making Caliban's gun disintegrate.

Matter Disintegration - Apocalypse has the ability to disintegrate objects into dust, as seen when he effortlessly destroyed Caliban's gun, an entire city and the wall of a building, Professor X was hiding in.

Matter Transmutation - Apocalypse is able to transmutate matter into anything he wants, as seen when he created the shackles binding Professor X to his altar, the armors of his Horsemen of Apocalypse, new metallic wings for Archangel, a new helmet for Magneto, and even a massive new pyramid out of the disintegrated Cairo.

Ground Liquification - Apocalypse could liquefy the ground in the Polish factory, what caused the factory workers to fall in a matter of seconds through the ground, where they were permanently trapped.

Telepathy - Apocalypse has the power to look into (thus instantly learning the names and characteristics of his allies and opponents) and dominate the minds of others, forcing them to do his bidding. This allowed him to make Magneto, Storm, Psylocke, and Archangel into his new incarnation of the four Horsemen of Apocalypse. His power is so great, that even Professor X (himself an extremely powerful telepath) is susceptible and displayed signs of great awe and fear of Apocalypse's power, claiming to have never felt anything like it before. Furthermore he was the only one, who could feel the telepathic presence of Professor X (while his powers where augmented by Cerebro), instantly connect with Cerebro and force the nations to destroy all nuclear weapons. Like the professor, Apocalypse can also cause people to instantly fall asleep and collapse, as well as make an entire room of people fall asleep, while leaving some select others unaffected. In fact, while engaging in a mental battle with Professor X on the astral plane, Apocalypse proved stronger, as he gained the upper hand relatively quickly, beating the professor's astral projection to the ground (leaving him bloodied and weak), and the fight only became evenly matched when Apocalypse was faced with the combined telepathic efforts of Professor X and Phoenix.

Knowledge Absorption - Apocalypse is able to learn vast amounts of information inhumanly quickly, as after awakening from his long slumber, he was able to look into the news and extract data, gaining an understanding of the modern world, and learning to speak fluently in modern English, all in a matter of seconds.

Mental Shielding - Apocalypse was able to shield the minds of his four Horsemen of Apocalypse from the telepathic power of Professor X, furthermore completly blocked the professors powers.

Shielding - Apocalypse can generate an extremely durable yellow-hued energy shield around himself, thus able to withstand the combined attacks of Storm's lightning, Cyclops's optical blasts, and Magneto's tremendous torrent of high-speed metal projectiles.

Teleportation - Apocalypse is able to teleport over tremendous distances at will, generating an immense sphere of violet light around himself in the process. He was thus able to instantly transport himself and his four Horsemen from Cairo to the X-Mansion and back.

Horsemen Power Bestowal - Apocalypse can bestow others with mutant abilities, such as the four he chooses to be his Horsemen of Apocalypse.

Mutant Power Augmentation - Apocalypse can enhance the mutant abilities of his four Horsemen of Apocalypse even further, thus making Psylocke capable of generating more powerful energy projections, granting Archangel metal wings (far more formidable than his previous living ones), increasing Storm's electrokinesis generation and granting her an early onset of flight (also turning her hair white in the process), and making Magneto capable of manipulating Earth's magnetic poles (to devastating effects). Apocalypse also once amplified Professor X's telepathy (much like how Cerebro usually does), making Charles able to deliver a telepathic message from Apocalypse to all the people of Earth.

Abilities

Genius Intellect - Apocalypse is extremely intelligent (on par with Professor X and Magneto), due to him having lived many lifetimes, as well as him having the ability to absorb vast amounts of knowledge at inhuman rates.

Excellent Strategist - Apocalypse is an excellent strategist, tactician, and leader, having successfully taken advantage of Cerebro, quickly ridding Earth of nuclear weapons, and leading his four Horsemen of Apocalypse against the X-Men, and he would have most likely ultimately been victorious against them, had Magneto and Storm not unexpectedly turned against him, and with Jean Grey unexpectedly tapping into the Phoenix, all at the last moment.

Master Manipulator - Apocalypse, as the first mutant, is an expert at bending others to his will through both his persuasive words and charisma, with him notably swaying Storm, Psylocke, Archangel, and Magneto to his cause, making them his four Horsemen of Apocalypse, and it should be noted that only Magneto and Storm would later turn against him, and only after a great deal of persuasion.

Multilingual - Apocalypse is fluent in his native Ancient Egyptian, as well as English (after absorbing a vast amount of knowledge of the modern world).

Weaknesses

Armor Removal - Apocalypse's main weakness is the absence of his mighty armor, since when it is removed, Apocalypse's his true, frail body is exposed, leaving him far more vulnerable to physical attacks, despite his healing factor. Hence, an exposed Apocalypse is pierced by Magneto's metal projectiles, and incinerated by Phoenix's flames, thus finally getting killed.

Arrogance - Apocalypse's other main weakness is his overconfidence in his abilities, which makes him see himself as a God. Hence, Professor X was able to exploit this when he told Jean Grey to "unleash her power", making Apocalypse arrogantly walk towards her, and being caught off-guard with the sheer magnitude of Phoenix's power. The professor even claimed that Apocalypse can never win because his arrogance indices him to stand alone against the X-Men, even after both Magneto and Storm have turned against him and the 2 remaining Horsemen of Apocalypse.

Weakened Aging Body - After Apocalypse spends a massive amount of time in a single body, it becomes weaker, requiring him to transfer his essence in the Egyptian ritual, so as to avoid succumbing to old age.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Like I said, it's pedantic, and I wouldn't bring that up as an actual point. But IIRC, his armor is of alien origin. It's also a life support system and a means of protecting Apoc from some pretty severe stuff.

Nothing in he movie says about his armor being from aliens.

How is he regrowing his head when his brain is dead, much like esco's?

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Nothing in he movie says about his armor being from aliens.

How is he regrowing his head when his brain is dead, much like esco's?

I'm not saying he could. Like I said, its pedantacism and should be discarded.

But at that same toke, Kal has to get from point A, to point B first.

Getting from point a to point be at light speed was never a problem for him

He caught lois falling from a building in Metropolis while he was half was around the world in the artic.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Getting from point a to point be at light speed was never a problem for him

He caught lois falling from a building in Metropolis while he was half was around the world in the artic.

Thats not going to help Kal when Apoc has adaptive reaction times that can react to another Lightspeeder in Quicksiver. Not to mention his shield. TP allows Apoc to anticipate Kal's movement, that combined with his instant transmutation...

I dunno man... Clark hasn't faced anyone with this specific powerset before. I would say he'd beat the ever loving tar out of comic or toon Apoc, but this one is very different...

Mos hits a million times harder then QS

/

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Mos hits a million times harder then QS

/

It's not just about pure brute power of if he can't breach the shields and other powers.

Remember, it took some serious hax to get through Apoc, several high powered mutants going full ball physically, and mentally, including the Phoenix Force, which is absolutely crazy. Kal probably could punch of Apoc's head, but he has to get through Apoc's powers first.

How do you know he can't break through?

He waltzed through a gravity beam like it was nothing while extremely weakened.

Where was Apoc shown to have much damage output while having his shields up?

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
How do you know he can't break through?

Because we've never seen Superman break an energy shield before. I don't know if he can or not, but the way Apoc's shield works, I wouldn't try it on a whim.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
He waltzed through a gravity beam like it was nothing while extremely weakened.

I am going to regret doing this, because it was one of Quan's arguments against Superman in the past, but... We don't know the explicit damage output of the beam. We don't actually know what the beam's energy would directly do to a human being. The only thing we know about it for certain is that it was gradually increasing the Earth's gravitational pull.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Where was Apoc shown to have much damage output while having his shields up?

While he was psychically beating the crap out of Xavier, he was simultaneously disintegrating everything Magneto threw at him, Blocking Storm's lightning bolts, Scott's beams, and repulsed a physical attack from beast instantly, then, while Mags, Scott and Storm kept up their attack, he fused Beast into a wall without so much as a gesture. It was only when Jean psionically, then physically smashed him did Apoc ever have trouble.

We never seen Apoc make knite or control an alien either yet people are making those claims, including you.

The shield was blocking Mags attack, storms and cyclops, where was his damage output while shielded?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Bs. Apoc is vastly overrated.

Says the most unobjective guy on the forum...

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
We never seen Apoc make knite or control an alien either yet people are making those claims, including you.

The shield was blocking Mags attack, where was his damage output while shielded.

I never made that claim. I hypothesised, but it doesn't really matter. Don't take things too literally dude. I'm trying to have a good debate, not a horrible argument...

Disintegrating everything Mags threw at him basically, besides the beast tansmute while he was shielding, and beating the stuffing out of an Astral Xavier.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder


I just saw it; nothing short of Jean embracing the full Phoenix Force is beating Apoc...

Massive no limits fallacy applied here.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I never made that claim. I hypothesised, but it doesn't really matter. Don't take things too literally dude. I'm trying to have a good debate, not a horrible argument...

Disintegrating everything Mags threw at him basically, besides the beast tansmute while he was shielding, and beating the stuffing out of an Astral Xavier.

The shield was Disintegrating everything. There was no damage output.

We are having a good debate. I agree.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Massive no limits fallacy applied here.

> post sets a hard limit on Apoc's power (Phoenix)
> Immemorial claims it's a no-limits fallacy

kek

Originally posted by KingD19
You say almost lost his head. But he literally let her cut him, looked at her like she was stupid, and healed in 2 seconds. That was because he let her hit him. He has forcefields I don't see Clark getting through. Telepathy and mind control Clark doesn't have defenses against. And matter manipulation Clark can't fight.



Time-Immemorial is very biased and is intentionally exaggerating what Mystique accomplished against Apocalypse...

She accomplished nothing...

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
The shield was Disintegrating everything. There was no damage output.

We are having a good debate. I agree.

Then I dunno what you mean by damage output. I mean, it's a defensive technique which was incredibly hard to crack.

Hehehwell, this is the way I try to have all debates. It's better this way.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder


Time-Immemorial is very biased and is intentionally exaggerating what Mystique accomplished against Apocalypse...

She accomplished nothing...

Being cut deep in the neck from a regular sword exaggerating?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
> post sets a hard limit on Apoc's power (Phoenix)
> Immemorial claims it's a no-limits fallacy

kek

Time-Immemorial isnt KMC's most logical poster as you correctly have pointed out...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder


I just saw it; nothing short of Jean embracing the full Phoenix Force is beating Apoc...

You applied a no limits fallacy to Apoc. Quit being a cheerleader.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
You applied a no limits fallacy to Apoc. Quit being a cheerleader.

No I didn't and you'd tealize it if you wasn't so biased...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder


I just saw it; nothing short of Jean embracing the full Phoenix Force is beating Apoc...


"nothing short of Jean can beat apoc"

How am I biased, I really liked the movie, I thought it was possibly one of the best superhero movies of all time.

Well... Techically speaking... Phoenix in the movies does indeed have limitations, especially when compared to her comic counterpart...

Superman needs a team to win this.

Originally posted by carver9
Superman needs a team to win this.



Apoc can do so much all at once its insane...

Apoc can battle in the Astral Plane and Physical world at the same...he's insane.

It was a great feat no doubt, and I loved this movie, prolly more so then MoS, but he was battling people who pale in comparison with the raw strength, speed out right power of Superman.

Um...Magneto has demonstrated way more power than Superman on a global scale and QS is faster yet Apocalypse did just fine against those two.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Um...Magneto has demonstrated way more power than Superman on a global scale and QS is faster yet Apocalypse did just fine against those two.



Also remember that Apoc was taking on a Magneto that demonstrated power on global scale and being fired upon by Scott WHILE battling Xavier on the Astral Plane...

Apoc is beyond anything we've seen save the full Phoenix Force so far...

Couldn't Superman fly away and accelerate to ultra-relativistic speeds, and then ram Apocalypse from orbit?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Couldn't Superman fly away and accelerate to ultra-relativistic speeds, and then ram Apocalypse from orbit?

Comicbook Superman could do that...

We've seen nothing from current movie Supes to suggest that he could (and the OP does specifically state that this is Supes from BvS)....

Actually he did it to Zod, another lie from you. And he did it to pretty much to everyone else, multiple times in both movies.

Watch them

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Actually he did it to Zod, another lie from you. And he did it to pretty much to everyone else, multiple times in both movies.

Watch them

So he reached "ultra relativistic" speeds during MoS? Bull$h!t...

Prove it....

Otherwise you are the liar who tells lies to protect a movie character; that makes you a loser...

Lets see, he rammed the space shit zod was in at ultra relativistic speeds.

He went from the indian ocean where he just rammed the world engine.

Lord of Brooklyn lite

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Lets see, he rammed the space shit zod was in at ultra relativistic.

Prove it....

Your dumba$$ doesnt know what ultra relativistic velocity is if you believe that....

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Lets see, he rammed the space shit zod was in at ultra relativistic speeds.

He went from the indian ocean where he just rammed the world engine.

Lord of Brooklyn lite

Counting movie time, he traveled no where near as fast as you are claiming...

Whats that Lord of Brooklyn? Proved you wrong again.

Nice playing with a retard.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Whats that Lord of Brooklyn? Proved you wrong again.

Nice playing with a retard.

You havent proved a damned thing; you made a stupid claim that you have no way to back up...

You are a liar who lies to protect Superman...

That makes you a big loser...

I proved you wrong, again.

I dont need to protect Superman, I actually watched the movie.

Lord of Brooklyn lite

Wheres your proof that Supes traveled at "ultra-relativistic" speed during MoS...

Go ahead, I'm waiting...

He has light speed feast, lob

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
He has light speed feast, lob

Prove it or concede and admit that you are a stone cold liar....

He traveled the globe in bits of seconds. He caught Louis falling from a building in metropolis, while in the Arctic. He flew so fast he disappeared from the camera.

Now quit lying in every thread you post in and changing your story.

I don't think we've ever see his true speed in combat. He flew from Metropolis to Mexico in practically no time, outflew a singularity in MOS. He's obviously insanely fast

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Comicbook Superman could do that...

We've seen nothing from current movie Supes to suggest that he could (and the OP does specifically state that this is Supes from BvS)....

If he goes into space, his only speed limit is the speed of light; it's just a question of how long it takes him to accelerate. And then he can ram Apocalypse, and might take out the inhabitable portions of the planet with him. He might not survive himself though. mmm

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
This is a non fight.... Apoc stomps

Proof? Oh thats right, you have none, clown.

Apoc wins

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Couldn't Superman fly away and accelerate to ultra-relativistic speeds, and then ram Apocalypse from orbit?

He tosses him into the sun.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Couldn't Superman fly away and accelerate to ultra-relativistic speeds, and then ram Apocalypse from orbit?

Yeah I mean he punched Doomsday into orbit, so I see no reason he couldn't do th same to Apoc.

Originally posted by KingD19
He's still shown to be able to manipulate matter to create something from the thoughts of a person.

If he can make something as advanced as a psi-blocker helmet, right down to the design, dimensions, and color. He should be able to make a space rock. There's 100% more evidence he can do it than he can't.

The question is, does he do this before Superman tosses him into orbit?

Heck, without his shields Apocalypse could get cut by a sword - Superman could possibly break through him with a punch.