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Phoenix at its best

Who wins

Hasn't there already been a story where she pwned Galactus but then got pwned by Maggy?

So yeah. Due to PC SJW FEMINAZI CIS PIS She beats the big doof.

She has only beaten a hungry and weakened galactus(ambushed him when he was about to feed)
LB galactus wins this

She has also stalemated / got an upper hand vs. a prepped Galactus who even brought his herald to aid him. And this was nowhere near the Phoenix at its best.

On the other hand, LBG seems stronger than the previous version.

I say stalemate. 50/50.

LBG stomps!

Originally posted by Magnon

She has also stalemated / got an upper hand vs. a prepped Galactus who even brought his herald to aid him.

And this was nowhere near the Phoenix at its best.
Scans?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Scans?
Excalibur #25

Originally posted by Magnon

Excalibur #25
I know the story well. They didn't battle,
it was a mere scuffle which ended very quickly with no damage or superiority on either side.

The highlight of that issue, is ... it proved Galactus had tech that could erase the PF from existence.

In fact, the PF only ever lived again after that issue, because Galactus willed it so.

btw, Nova wasn't there to help G against Rachel,
Nova just happened to be his Hrald,
and Rachel just happened to show up and attack.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I know the story well. They didn't battle,
it was a mere scuffle which ended very quickly with no damage or superiority on either side.

The highlight of that issue, is ... it proved Galactus had tech that could erase the PF from existence.

In fact, the PF only ever lived again after that issue, because Galactus willed it so.

btw, Nova wasn't there to help G against Rachel,
Nova just happened to be his Hrald,
and Rachel just happened to show up and attack.
Rachel certainly did humiliate Galactus whilst Galactus was unable to harm Rachel at all during their fight. A clear indication of Phoenix being more powerful than Galactus. And Ray had just returned from a mission, she was tired and unsuspecting, whereas Galactus was specifically coming after Phoenix. Yet, Ray matched him effortlessly.

I'm not denying that Galactus has the means to hurt the Phoenix if she surrenders and voluntarily allows Galactus to wrap her into his world eater machine and do whatever he pleases. Most characters can hurt most other characters under such conditions. But in a fight Phoenix looked better despite her being weary and unsuspecting. And this thread is about a fight, not a situation where the other is not allowed to fight back.

Rachel didn't "happen to show up and attack"; it was Galactus who showed up and attacked, with his herald by his side. It was a surprise attack against Ray, and she still did fine.

Originally posted by Magnon

Rachel certainly did humiliate Galactus

whilst Galactus was unable to harm Rachel at all during their fight.

A clear indication of Phoenix being more powerful than Galactus.

And Ray had just returned from a mission, she was tired and unsuspecting,

whereas Galactus was specifically coming after Phoenix.

Yet, Ray matched him effortlessly.

It was a surprise attack against Ray, and she still did fine.
So I just re-checked that issue which I hadn't read in a bit, and I was right, and slighty wrong.

I was wrong in that, Galactus did come looking for Rachel, so you was right about that.

I was right in that, it was a short scuffle with nothing of consequence, so you was wrong about that.

But actually, it was even less than that.

The only thing Rachel did to Galactus was throw Nova at him, which knocked him down, but with no ill affect:

Then, Rachel submitted and ... that's it.

http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/27649312_G1.jpg http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/27649313_G2.jpg http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/27649314_G3.jpg

Rachel never even touched Galactus with her own power.

and ... Rachel and Galactus never battled.

The only one that got stomped here was Nova.

So your perspective on the scenario friend, is/was way off with:

"Rachel certainly did humiliate Galactus"
"Galactus was unable to harm Rachel at all during their fight"
"clear indication of Phoenix being more powerful"
"Ray matched him effortlessly"

Originally posted by Mr Master
The highlight of that issue, is ... it proved Galactus had tech that could erase the PF from existence.

In fact, the PF only ever lived again after that issue, because Galactus willed it so.
But then again, Rachel submitted herself to this. It's not like he overpowered her. I mean Odin has spells that can take out Celestials doesn't mean he's more powerful than them. And Loki and Grandmaster have imprisoned Death herself.

That issue proved two things though Mr. M : The PF IS a universal power (at least) and it's responsible for all the stars in the universe (shown on panel)***. The PF can destroy a universe (admitted to by Galactus himself) :
http://s33.postimg.org/ws6w0yu63/2018673_1377173_phoenix_excalibur_galactus_07.jpg

***This backs up Kubik's words to Kosmos with the PF being the mother of the stars and the "first and in many ways the greatest of the principalities" :
http://s33.postimg.org/ndldtzqkb/3024337_ffann023_58.jpg http://s33.postimg.org/6eh0sh4qj/2018664_1379830_scan8xy8.jpg

Later on in the Excalibur series, Galactus further states that the PF is the embodiment of all potential life :
http://s33.postimg.org/8rs2gvh2z/705134_rachel_vs_galactus_008.jpg

This is huge. The Excalibur series was the PF swansong. It's been downhill from there on in. Marvel must really hate it.

IMHO, the Classic PF would kill Lifebringer Galactus.

Originally posted by zopzop

But then again, Rachel submitted herself to this. It's not like he overpowered her.
Please good friend, before replying to my posts, know their context.
Originally posted by zopzop

I mean Odin has spells that can take out Celestials doesn't mean he's more powerful than them.
And Loki and Grandmaster have imprisoned Death herself.
Inconsequential to my point old friend.
Originally posted by zopzop

That issue proved two things though Mr. M :

1) The PF IS a universal power (at least) and it's responsible for all the stars in the universe (shown on panel).

2) The PF can destroy a universe (admitted to by Galactus himself) :

3) This backs up Kubik's words to Kosmos with the PF being the mother of the stars
and the "first and in many ways the greatest of the principalities" :

4) Later on in the Excalibur series, Galactus further states that the PF is the embodiment of all potential life
1) The PF never proved to be a "universal" power. I'm 100% certain the PF was never above the abstracts.
The PF was respnosible for the stars, and the psyche of living beings was responsible for the PF. Chicken or the Egg?

2) PF can destroy a universe, but not an Eternity/Infinity universe.

3) "Mother of the stars," ... you mean that jelly bean in Kubik's hand?
Stars are only of consequence concerning life that needs them. (alien races/humanoid races) ...

... The PF was the first presented in Kubik's museum cause it was the weakest.
Remember, Kubik was ascending up the food chain.

4) Galactus never said that, it was Rachel who made that hyperbolic boast ...

... Galactus repied: "No" ... and then schooled her on how it is:

http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/27651023_Rachel.jpg
Originally posted by zopzop

IMHO, the Classic PF would kill Lifebringer Galactus.
LBG stomped major Concpets below Eternity/Infinity/Death/Oblivion.

All the major Concepts > PF

Originally posted by Mr Master

1) The PF never proved to be a "universal" power. I'm 100% certain the PF was never above the abstracts.

The PF was respnosible for the stars, and the psyche of living beings was responsible for the PF. Chicken or the Egg?

2) PF can destroy a universe, but not an Eternity/Infinity universe.
Eternity/Infinity universe? I'm not following Mr. M. Galactus said the PF can destroy an entire universe and Death backed up that claim but added that from that destruction it will bring about new life. So it can destroy a universe and somehow aid in the creation of a new one. The Watcher even said without the PF there would be NO life in the universe or even potential for life.


Yup. He was ascending up the food chain but the moral of the story was that it's all one big cycle. They even ascended beyond the Beyond Realm and they were at the molecular level. Then from there back right where they started. It was very telling that Kubik called the first layer the most important. That was the layer dealing with the stars and the PF.


My bad, yeah. It draws it's power from all potential life. That's still huge.

Back then, the stars were pretty much considered the ultimate power from what i remember; they were also regarded as being actual living beings. There was a Dr Strange story which established that the stars were the source of all energy - including mystical. so when the creators usurped the position of the stars they were considered to be the ultimate power in the universe iirc.

They even overpowered the Ancient One who at the time was basically an abstract level being (he managed to hold off Eternity in a separate comic and was implied to be beyond Death).

though i dont know how much Kaminski ,Claremont, or the other Phoenix writers knew of that story.

It's pretty safe to say Order and Chaos>Phoenix Force. So Lifebringer Galactus should win.

Order and Chaos are abstracts; they represent the concepts after which they are named. As Galactus said, after the rebirth of MU, these concepts are in turmoil. Order is experiencing disorder and Chaos is experiencing order, whereas Galactus is at peace with his new role. Thus the result of their fight might mostly reflect the fact that Order and Chaos are much weaker than what they used to be, instead of Galactus being much stronger.

Originally posted by Magnon
Order and Chaos are abstracts; they represent the concepts after which they are named. As Galactus said, after the rebirth of MU, these concepts are in turmoil. Order is experiencing disorder and Chaos is experiencing order, whereas Galactus is at peace with his new role. Thus the result of their fight might mostly reflect the fact that Order and Chaos are much weaker than what they used to be, instead of Galactus being much stronger. Nothing i saw from that fight suggest they were weaken. Honestly what you are saying sounds more like a theory. Both Order and Chaos seem in top shape to me

Originally posted by TheHulk
Nothing i saw from that fight suggest they were weaken. Honestly what you are saying sounds more like a theory. Both Order and Chaos seem in top shape to me
There are two explanations, both equally valid a priori: either Galactus was stronger or O&C weaker than before. And based on what Galactus said, O&C were weakened by this internal turmoil I mentioned in my last post. It was what Galactus exploited to beat them.

Nothing like that, galan straight up stomped them both, they even battled in a place where they said they could use their full power without damaging normal space

Originally posted by Genii96
Nothing like that, galan straight up stomped them both, they even battled in a place where they said they could use their full power without damaging normal space
Nah, Galan clearly pointed out the contradictions plaguing Order and Chaos which he exploited to beat them.

Originally posted by Magnon
There are two explanations, both equally valid a priori: either Galactus was stronger or O&C weaker than before. And based on what Galactus said, O&C were weakened by this internal turmoil I mentioned in my last post. It was what Galactus exploited to beat them. I'm not saying that what you are suggesting is impossible as i find it a a very interesting perspective. Though really it looks like Galactus flat out beat them. I guess this is up for debate

Originally posted by Mr Master
Please good friend, before replying to my posts, know their context.

Inconsequential to my point old friend.

1) The PF never proved to be a "universal" power. I'm 100% certain the PF was never above the abstracts.
The PF was respnosible for the stars, and the psyche of living beings was responsible for the PF. Chicken or the Egg?

2) PF can destroy a universe, but not an Eternity/Infinity universe.

3) "Mother of the stars," ... you mean that jelly bean in Kubik's hand?
Stars are only of consequence concerning life that needs them. (alien races/humanoid races) ...

... The PF was the first presented in Kubik's museum cause it was the weakest.
Remember, Kubik was ascending up the food chain.

4) Galactus never said that, it was Rachel who made that hyperbolic boast ...

... Galactus repied: "No" ... and then schooled her on how it is:

http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/27651023_Rachel.jpg

LBG stomped major Concpets below Eternity/Infinity/Death/Oblivion.

All the major Concepts > PF

TPF is a known universal threat throughout it's history.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
TPF is a known universal threat throughout it's history. Personally, when it comes to being described a universal threat. I'll like to some potential power rather than just statements.

Originally posted by Magnon
Nah, Galan clearly pointed out the contradictions plaguing Order and Chaos which he exploited to beat them.

You are correct, but Chaos and Order were NOT weakened. Galactus gave them the equivalent of a blow to the larynx during the fight, but they were at full strength to begin the fight.

Originally posted by TheHulk
Personally, when it comes to being described a universal threat. I'll like to some potential power rather than just statements.

I would given the choice, but the description is consistent over decades.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
You are correct, but Chaos and Order were NOT weakened. Galactus gave them the equivalent of a blow to the larynx during the fight, but they were at full strength to begin the fight. I might have to read the fight again, but i thought he only gave that punch to Order.





Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
I would given the choice, but the description is consistent over decades. Prove it

I demand thee evidence for such a claim

Originally posted by TheHulk
I might have to read the fight again, but i thought he only gave that punch to Order.





Prove it

I demand thee evidence for such a claim

He did only give that punch to Order in order to initiate the battle. He then reduced Chaos to the size equivalent of a grape and crushed him between his fingers.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
He did only give that punch to Order in order to initiate the battle. He then reduced Chaos to the size equivalent of a grape and crushed him between his fingers.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Galactus gave them the equivalent of a blow to the larynx during the fight, but they were at full strength to begin the fight. You said ''them''

Originally posted by TheHulk
You said ''them''

Yes, I did. Again, the EQUIVALENT, in a metaphoric sense. The right blow to the throat would incapacitate a great fighter. And I was referring to the overall tactics he used to defeat LC and MO, not the opening punch.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I know the story well. They didn't battle,
it was a mere scuffle which ended very quickly with no damage or superiority on either side.

The highlight of that issue, is ... it proved Galactus had tech that could erase the PF from existence.

In fact, the PF only ever lived again after that issue, because Galactus willed it so.

btw, Nova wasn't there to help G against Rachel,
Nova just happened to be his Hrald,
and Rachel just happened to show up and attack.
Again with this shit.

The tech was killing Rachel not Phoenix Force.

I wouldn't put phoenix past a well fed normal galactus,let alone LB galan

Yeah, that's just bullshit.

Originally posted by zopzop

Eternity/Infinity universe? I'm not following Mr. M.

Galactus said the PF can destroy an entire universe
and Death backed up that claim but added that from that destruction it will bring about new life.

So it can destroy a universe and somehow aid in the creation of a new one.
Eternity/Infinity > PF. You know this, I know it, we all know it.

The PF destroying a "cosmos?" At the time, yes, in theory, but yes, but not space-time and the concepts,
but rather,
the physical make-up of a universe. (eg. planets-stars-galaxies)

The Abstracts (and any self-sustaining entity) are completely unaffected by the PF wackin stars.
This is why in that Rachel scene we see that Galactus survives, and Death,
and I'm sure the Watcher, who also doesn't need a "sun" to live.
Therefore obviously all the Abstracts live on, and other entites on par or greater than Galactus.
Heck, even guys like Hyperion would go on.

As far as "creating" a universe? We've never seen that happen, not even in a "What If",
which is the only place where the PF actually did destroy the contents of a universe.
PF did this on two separate occasions in two "What Ifs."
In fact, I've never seen the PF/Jean/whathaveyou create or recreate anything more than a Planet.
Originally posted by zopzop

The Watcher even said without the PF there would be NO life in the universe or even potential for life.
... Life that needs stars.
Originally posted by zopzop

Yup. He was ascending up the food chain but the moral of the story was that it's all one big cycle.
They even ascended beyond the Beyond Realm and they were at the molecular level.

Then from there back right where they started.
We had this debate once before. That interpretation was incorrect then, as it is now old friend.

I still find it hard to believe:
you think a "higher" ascension was "quarks/atoms/molecules/bacteria" which are located withIN Eternity/Infinity ...
... when Kubik & Kosmos clearly went outside/beyond Eternity.

Nah friend, obviously the "back right where they started" was inside Eternity at it's most basic level. ("quarks/atoms/molecules/bacteria"
Originally posted by zopzop

It was very telling that Kubik called the first layer the most important.
That was the layer dealing with the stars and the PF.
"most important?" ... lol ... "Stars?" ... Oh, the fragile jelly bean in Kubik's hand.

Hmm, off the top of my dome,
I can name 10 cats now, and 15 cats then, that wave a hand and an entire universe goes lights out, or on.

PF was first, and this represented the weakest link.

But, since at the time it was intrinsically connected to the stars,
it was most important concerning life that needs them.

But "stars?" ... Stars don't mean anything to anyone that was presented after the PF in that ascension.
Originally posted by zopzop

My bad, yeah. It draws it's power from all potential life. That's still huge.
Sorta.

The PF, in its in-universe manifested state (Rachel at the time) tapped into the near-infinite energies of life unborn.

But, not "all" life, just "life" that wiil need stars to survive.
Originally posted by "Id"
Again with this shit.

The tech was killing Rachel not Phoenix Force.
Again with this shit.

The tech was killing both Rachel and the PF who were one and the same at the time.

This is why Roma clearly stated:

http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/27663489_PF1.jpg

"Behold, that child is Phoneix. Living embodiment of one of the primal forces.

You can no more divide her spirit from flesh than you can life from death.

There is a natural order to her being"

---------------------------------------------------

Galactus was never going to be able to "separate" them. Rachel WAS the PF embodied.

Ripping them apart would only kill both who were one. This is why the "stars were fading."

Because the PF was dying. ... Rachel? (on her own) who cares.

Correct me if I'm wrong Mr M(I am willfully ignorant of the PF), but didn't the Phoenix's only true universal 'feat' of destructive power occur in a What If back in the early 80s? Other than that, isn't its alleged 'universe-busting' power just lip-service?

...Or did I miss an extremely uber showing somewhere along the line?

^^ ... From what I know, you are correct brother G.

I likewise can only account for the two separate instances in the two What Ifs.

In both cases though, it was the contents of the universe that were burned away, (planets to galaxies) not space-time itself.

I know over 40 years of their history together,and in their 1st what if phoenix battles big G and he says wait you are the most powerful being I have ever met.Your power fairly rivals my own,I offer you to be my next hearald.She responds by blowing up his planetary destroying machines.G says very well Phoenix I could easily restore my machines and eventually destroy you,but such labor would be more than this world is worth to me.this tells me he could edge out the phoenix in power.And in their next encounter in ex-caliber 25,he hooks her up to equipment that would discorperate her however the suns start going out so he stops.In their 3rd encounter she blows up his planet drainig equipment leaving him starving and still gives her a good fight,and even teaches her her role in the universe proving he may be the smartest entity of all!

Forgot to say,this life bringer version of Galactus should be more powerful than chaos and order.That is a cosmic heavy indeed,although a G amped on 4 or 5 planets should be up there as well!

Originally posted by Mr Master
Eternity/Infinity > PF. You know this, I know it, we all know it.

The PF destroying a "cosmos?" At the time, yes, in theory, but yes, but not space-time and the concepts,
but rather,
the physical make-up of a universe. (eg. planets-stars-galaxies)

The Abstracts (and any self-sustaining entity) are completely unaffected by the PF wackin stars.
This is why in that Rachel scene we see that Galactus survives, and Death,
and I'm sure the Watcher, who also doesn't need a "sun" to live.
Therefore obviously all the Abstracts live on, and other entites on par or greater than Galactus.
Heck, even guys like Hyperion would go on.

As far as "creating" a universe? We've never seen that happen, not even in a "What If",
which is the only place where the PF actually did destroy the contents of a universe.
PF did this on two separate occasions in two "What Ifs."
In fact, I've never seen the PF/Jean/whathaveyou create or recreate anything more than a Planet.

... Life that needs stars.

We had this debate once before. That interpretation was incorrect then, as it is now old friend.

I still find it hard to believe:
you think a "higher" ascension was "quarks/atoms/molecules/bacteria" which are located withIN Eternity/Infinity ...
... when Kubik & Kosmos clearly went outside/beyond Eternity.

Nah friend, obviously the "back right where they started" was inside Eternity at it's most basic level. ("quarks/atoms/molecules/bacteria"

"most important?" ... lol ... "Stars?" ... Oh, the fragile jelly bean in Kubik's hand.

Hmm, off the top of my dome,
I can name 10 cats now, and 15 cats then, that wave a hand and an entire universe goes lights out, or on.

PF was first, and this represented the weakest link.

But, since at the time it was intrinsically connected to the stars,
it was most important concerning life that needs them.

But "stars?" ... Stars don't mean anything to anyone that was presented after the PF in that ascension.

Sorta.

The PF, in its in-universe manifested state (Rachel at the time) tapped into the near-infinite energies of life unborn.

But, not "all" life, just "life" that wiil need stars to survive.

Again with this shit.

The tech was killing both Rachel and the PF who were one and the same at the time.

This is why Roma clearly stated:

http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/27663489_PF1.jpg

"Behold, that child is Phoneix. Living embodiment of one of the primal forces.

You can no more divide her spirit from flesh than you can life from death.

There is a natural order to her being"

---------------------------------------------------

Galactus was never going to be able to "separate" them. Rachel WAS the PF embodied.

Ripping them apart would only kill both who were one. This is why the "stars were fading."

Because the PF was dying. ... Rachel? (on her own) who cares.
We're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this Mr. M
Originally posted by Galan007
Correct me if I'm wrong Mr M(I am willfully ignorant of the PF), but didn't the Phoenix's only true universal 'feat' of destructive power occur in a What If back in the early 80s? Other than that, isn't its alleged 'universe-busting' power just lip-service?

...Or did I miss an extremely uber showing somewhere along the line?
How many times has Order/Chaos busted a universe on panel, in mainstream Marvel or in What Ifs? How many times has Eternity? How about Infinity?

Maelstrom with Anomaly's power, the Quantum Bands unlocked by Cosmic Awareness, backing by Oblivion, and his own kinetic energy manipulation powers needed time to do it (he actually never finished his job so it shouldn't count) and only via a gigantic black hole he used his Anomaly powers to designate it the center of the universe (or it wouldn't have worked in the first place).

Universe busting is a rarity on panel in Marvel. If Galactus thought the PF could do it (and Death itself agreed), then it could do it.

Originally posted by zopzop
Universe busting is a rarity on panel in Marvel. If Galactus thought the PF could do it (and Death itself agreed), then it could do it.

When PF very very easily destroyed that What If universe, writers only wanted to show PF really has such destructive power (it doesn't matter it wasn't 616), they just wanted to show a clear indication of PF destructive power.

Of course, like you said, Galactus and Death were of the same thoughts.

Has PF done any significant thing in recent years?

Originally posted by Inedian
When PF very very easily destroyed that What If universe, writers only wanted to show PF really has such destructive power (it doesn't matter it wasn't 616), they just wanted to show a clear indication of PF destructive power.

Of course, like you said, Galactus and Death were of the same thoughts.
There was another more recent What If (What If Vulcan became the Phoenix) and it was pretty favorable to the PF. It made it seem like a true multiversal force.


Nope. It's only gotten worse for it. Marvel seems to hate Jean and the PF with a passion.

Originally posted by zopzop

There was another more recent What If (What If Vulcan became the Phoenix) and it was pretty favorable to the PF. It made it seem like a true multiversal force.

Yes, I remember, already more than five years of that showing. He had a good showing, although I don't remember detailed. WPOTC also had a nice showing with that orphan universe.

Originally posted by zopzop

We're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this Mr. M
Fair enuff. We are brothers after all.
Originally posted by zopzop

How many times has Order/Chaos busted a universe on panel, in mainstream Marvel or in What Ifs?
You can't catch Order/Chaos busting universes when they are essential to universes.
Order/Chaos are part of what makes a universe function properly.
They're also below Eternity/Infinity so, I don't see why they should be able to.
I'm sure they can destroy the contents of a universe, (planets to galaxies) like the PF, but that's not Eternity/Infinity.

Anyway, remember old friend, Order/Chaos once ruled their own entire universe, known as the "Magick Realm."
It was from that universe (Magick) that they were the balance between Eternity and Death within 616.
They had no jurisdiction within 616, but they were "Gods" in the Magick Universe:

http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/27667674_Chaos_Mag.jpg

It also seems they created everything withIN their universe:

http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/27667675_Chaos_Magick3.jpg

-------------------------------------

As we both know, at some point this detail was lost to history,
and nowadays and for a good while actually,
Chaos/Order are intrinsically tied to the same reality as Eternity/Infinity.

So, Chaos/Order help maintain cosmic consonance and they're also subject to Eternity/Infinity's authority/power:

http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/27669461_LCMO.jpg

Master Order: "Eternity/Infinity have judged this matter none of our affair"

Lord Chaos: "We must obey he who is forever and she who is all"
Originally posted by zopzop

How many times has Eternity? How about Infinity? busted a universe?
Good question ... I'd say, more than either of us can count:

http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t1/27667673_Eternity_ALL.jpg

"Wolds within Worlds, Dimensions folding into themselves,
Entire UniverseS being born, and collapsing into ruin,
and yet I sense that all this -- is but a fraction of what Eternity is ...

Reads like a living perpetual creation/entropy event.

-------------------------------------------------


I remember a few cats going wild cause they thought Jean held that baby universe in her hands, lol ..

http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/27669447_etisuni2copysh4.jpg

Eternity is Time incarnated ...

When he raises a Hand which holds whole universeS withIN it,

Past Present and Future"

Originally posted by zopzop

Maelstrom with Anomaly's power, the Quantum Bands unlocked by Cosmic Awareness, backing by Oblivion, and his own kinetic energy manipulation powers needed time to do it (he actually never finished his job so it shouldn't count) and only via a gigantic black hole he used his Anomaly powers to designate it the center of the universe (or it wouldn't have worked in the first place).
Which is why Maelstrom was a cornball.

He had all that power, and yet was stalemated by an Infinity amped Quasar.

To be fair, it was rumored Gruenwald was high on shrooms during that arc.
Originally posted by zopzop

Universe busting is a rarity on panel in Marvel.

If Galactus thought the PF could do it (and Death itself agreed), then it could do it.
I already agreed that the PF should be able to burn the contents of a universe. (planets to galaxies)

But space-time and the conceptiual abstracts?

Nah. The PF gots nothing there.