who around here still actually read comics?

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leonidas
i know this will be moved (sorry to be a pain in the a$$ pr) but no one really reads the comic book forum it seems. which is too bad since there is some good sh!t over there.... sad

anyway, just legit curious--how many here still ACTIVELY read current books? i mean newly published WHOLE books, not just the posted bits and pieces in the forum or ownage threads. aside from galan and myself, who's still reading??

i ask, because so many opinions on matches are outdated or simply...uneducated. so who reads what and how much?

Flyattractor
I still do. Most of what I buy though are old stuff that I couldn't buy back in the day. Don't buy anything from the Big 2 anymore. Gave up on DC when Nu52 started. Was following the Marvel Star Wars tittles but just dropped those.

Still following the Rick & Morty and Invader Zim titles.

Those are still very good.

Insane Titan
I still buy and read a few marvel and DC, wanna try some Indie stuff but not sure where to start.

The Marvel/DC stuff I buy is mainly down to force of habit

StiltmanFTW
Just TWD here.

Scot supplies us with a shitload of scans, so opinions aren't nearly as bad as on other boards. You really should learn to relax, Chapel.

https://nikgspot.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/2048569-01jason1.jpeg

One_Angry_Scot
This is what I said to a similar question in the Off Topic thread.

Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
I read everything that comes out from Marvel and DC each week but only pay actual proper attention to a select few. And I've started reading TWD as well.

I don't know why I bother really since Marvel are complete and utter shit. DC are sort of upping their game a bit. I just hold out hope for the Sentry.

I almost think Brevoort wants to deliberately drive Marvel into the ground.

Read all the past stuff as well when I can.

StiltmanFTW
Yeah. It's not our fault. Not our fault at all.

Quality is very important - and most of us stopped following new released around... Original Sin event? Some before that (like me), some shortly after.

There was a time when we were proud of keeping up with Marvel/DC, not anymore. I'm hearing Rebirth is supposedly good, though?

One_Angry_Scot
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yeah. It's not our fault. Not our fault at all.

Quality is very important - and most of us stopped following new released around... Original Sin event? Some before that (like me), some shortly after.

There was a time when we were proud of keeping up with Marvel/DC, not anymore. I'm hearing Rebirth is supposedly good, though?

Original Sin was really bad. It looked all mysterious and cool but then turned out to be boring.

I've enjoyed Rebirth so far. But it's one of them things where DC have started a new event and shook up a lot of things so they're on a high now but that doesn't necessarily mean that will continue.

Flyattractor
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Original Sin was really bad. It looked all mysterious and cool but then turned out to be boring.

I've enjoyed Rebirth so far. But it's one of them things where DC have started a new event and shook up a lot of things so they're on a high now but that doesn't necessarily mean that will continue.

How have the fans reacted to the "3 Jokers" bit in the rebirth?

krisblaze
I read some.

Mainly I just catch up on a few series every 3 months or so and read older stuff.

StiltmanFTW
The first event that disappointed me big time was Fear Itself.

Good moments? Only a few and if we look for them like hardcore comic geeks, paying attention to every detail and every tie-in. Story? Retarded.

Insane Titan
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
The first event that disappointed me big time was Fear Itself.

Good moments? Only a few and if we look for them like hardcore comic geeks, paying attention to every detail and every tie-in. Story? Retarded. the last big event and tie ins I enjoyed from start to finish was Annihilation.

One_Angry_Scot
Originally posted by Flyattractor
How have the fans reacted to the "3 Jokers" bit in the rebirth?

Not sure, haven't looked at any reviews or opinions of the comic.

Cogito
Back when the Nu52 started I was reading every issue of every DC comic weekly. I did that for maybe a year or so to see what was worth following, but then they just kept moving writers around and everything went to shit. I was also reading a handful of Marvel at the time, but quality there was pretty shit too.

Since then life has gotten in the way, etc., so now I mostly just pop in now and then to contribute something stupid and then disappear. I might be inclined to see how Rebirth goes though...mmm

Honestly one of the biggest detractors for me is the constant forced character changes. I get that the big 2 want to adapt the comics to be closer to the movies, and I get that they want more gender/racial diversity of heroes, but f*** that. I just want the same heroes I grew up with. I don't need a female Thor, 5th (Muslim) and 6th (Female) human Green Lanterns, etc. Maybe it works for the next generation of readers, but boring old people like me just want things to stay the same.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Cogito
Maybe it works for the next generation of readers

To be brutally honest, I really doubt it does.

wuleecat
The last time I actively bought comics because I was genuinely excited about them coming out was in the original run of the Ultimates, the Millar/Hitch era. That was a special time, something genuinely brilliant was happening and it was a pleasure to read them.

Then came the comics -turd that was Ultimates 3, and I gave up.

I stopped buying after that. Now I just get the occasional TPB that looks interesting when I browse in the comic book shop. Locke and Key for instance, that was pretty good. I liked Jupiter's Legacy too. I just don't have the patience to buy title month to month any more when the quality of the stories and/or the art work is so piss poor.

StiltmanFTW
Yeah, Ultimates - and Ult. X-Men - were both awesome on the beginning. Millar was doing a great job.

PS. You realize how creepy your avatar is, right?

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/avatars/misc/flat2.gif http://images.killermovies.com/forums/avatars/misc/flat2.gif http://images.killermovies.com/forums/avatars/misc/flat2.gif http://images.killermovies.com/forums/avatars/misc/flat2.gif http://images.killermovies.com/forums/avatars/misc/flat2.gif http://images.killermovies.com/forums/avatars/misc/flat2.gif http://images.killermovies.com/forums/avatars/misc/flat2.gif http://images.killermovies.com/forums/avatars/misc/flat2.gif http://images.killermovies.com/forums/avatars/misc/flat2.gif http://images.killermovies.com/forums/avatars/misc/flat2.gif

One_Angry_Scot
Originally posted by Cogito
Back when the Nu52 started I was reading every issue of every DC comic weekly. I did that for maybe a year or so to see what was worth following, but then they just kept moving writers around and everything went to shit. I was also reading a handful of Marvel at the time, but quality there was pretty shit too.

Since then life has gotten in the way, etc., so now I mostly just pop in now and then to contribute something stupid and then disappear. I might be inclined to see how Rebirth goes though...mmm

Honestly one of the biggest detractors for me is the constant forced character changes. I get that the big 2 want to adapt the comics to be closer to the movies, and I get that they want more gender/racial diversity of heroes, but f*** that. I just want the same heroes I grew up with. I don't need a female Thor, 5th (Muslim) and 6th (Female) human Green Lanterns, etc. Maybe it works for the next generation of readers, but boring old people like me just want things to stay the same.

Yeah that's the thing I hate the most - this forced diversity thing that is becoming so common. Blue Marvel is a good character but he wasn't made just because he is black or we "need" more diversity in comics. He was made with a genuine backstory.

But Marvel are just heading in the wrong direction. Like that bullshit in that Angela Queen of Hel comic where Bor for some reason brings up SJW tier stupid shit.

StiltmanFTW
Hi, Scot http://images.killermovies.com/forums/avatars/misc/flat2.gif

One_Angry_Scot
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Hi, Scot http://images.killermovies.com/forums/avatars/misc/flat2.gif

http://i.imgur.com/jLgmXN0.jpg

One_Angry_Scot
Wuleecat you should have this as a signature.

http://i.imgur.com/CPrvqzP.jpg

Estacado
Only the stuff Scot and the other dude posts...
What's his name?
Galileo?

carver9
Comics sucks. JLA is pretty good but that's about it.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Wuleecat you should have this as a signature.

http://i.imgur.com/CPrvqzP.jpg

laughing out loud

thumb up

cdtm
I read mostly trades, and old stuff. Only thing I keep up with is IDW's line which is a who's who of nostalgia. Ghostbusters, Ninja Turtles, Transformers.

Especially More Than Meets the Eye, which is genius of the Keith Giffen JLA era variety.

http://i.imgur.com/4v2kKup.jpg

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Estacado
Galileo?

Gala the Shemale, I think vin

-Pr-
Marvel wise, I lost interest in Avengers around the time Bendis went full retard/Siege. The last really good event they did was Annihilation, and X-Men? It hasn't been good since Whedon on Astonishing. Even that mutant baby arc wasn't great.

DC? At the start of the N52, things were good. Morrison on Action Comics made up for the weakness that was the Superman book, and Johns was writing Aquaman and Justice League; two books I enjoyed enough to actually spend money on them. Now? Utter shite for the most part.

The recurring feeling I get is that even though I've been reading comics for over 20 years, the current crop of comics aren't aimed towards people like me. I would never expect the entire market to cater to me, obviously, but that slice that used to be for die-hards like me? It's practically non-existent, and I can't name a character I like that hasn't been mistreated at the big two.

One_Angry_Scot
Have you had a look through Rebirth yet -Pr-?

Galan007
Originally posted by leonidas
aside from galan and myself, who's still reading?? bashful

Galan007
But seriously, I don't read much at all from Marvel and DC these days(maybe 3-4 titles between them)... I think we can all agree that the big two have gone to complete shit.

I read quite a few Indie books consistently, though. thumb up

celeyhyga17
Aaron Thor both Odinson and Jane Thor I still actually enjoy. For me it's just fun as hell. Love Young Thor stories and I actually don't mind Jane. I just think Aaron has a way with words when it comes to Thor stories. Even his filler stories from God of Thunder up until now are just plain fun. I recommend the filler arc in GoT that involved a young dragon called Skaggbag. Nothing major in regards to the series as a whole, but really paints a picture of the contrasting mindset of Young Thor to current Odinson. And the recent filler with Bodolf The Black in the recent Jane Thor series was quite good. Loved the references of 896 AD versions of Ghost Rider, Iron Fist, Black Panther, and Great Beasts in Canada. I could care less for any x-overs from both Marvel & DC. I just want Aaron on Thor for the next decade.

-Pr-
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Have you had a look through Rebirth yet -Pr-?

I tried. It didn't go well.

Rao Kal El
I read OLD comics but not often.

The new stuff I didn't like. Though rebirt seems interesting

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by -Pr-
I tried. It didn't go well.

Heh. So it's bad?

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I read OLD comics but not often.

thumb up

I have like a few dozens of trades to read...

riv6672
Originally posted by leonidas
i know this will be moved (sorry to be a pain in the a$$ pr) but no one really reads the comic book forum it seems. which is too bad since there is some good sh!t over there.... sad

anyway, just legit curious--how many here still ACTIVELY read current books? i mean newly published WHOLE books, not just the posted bits and pieces in the forum or ownage threads. aside from galan and myself, who's still reading??

i ask, because so many opinions on matches are outdated or simply...uneducated. so who reads what and how much?

I get Trades all the time, more old stuff than new though, as i dont have a high opinion of many books today.

Blue Area Vet
I'm reading Ultimates, Herc, Black Panther and Inhumans. Civil War II appears to be off to a good start. Secret Wars and the one year build up was great and Hickman's run on New Avengers is one of the best one year runs ever. The best recent event comics have been Civil War, Planet Hulk, WWH and Annihilation I (II was good, not great). I loved the death squad X-Force. Aaron's run on Thor was incredible but too short. Bendis' dialogue and Quesada's hatred of established powerhouse characters is nearly unbearable. **** the weak ass all new Avengers bullshit. I don't like or read D.C., but I love Scott's scans of Injustice!

DarkSaint85
I read both companies pretty religiously. Used to get about 10/12 issues every week. With a smattering of indie comics in between.

krisblaze
Its as pr put it.

New52 had me interested for a while but it didnt last.

Still a few qualiy books on the indie front though.

cdtm
Iron Man and Power Fist isn't bad.

Not great either, but it shows promise.

cdtm
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Heh. So it's bad?



The Superman stand in is interesting.

It's 1990's something Supes. Not really even OWAW or anything recent pre Nu52, it has Byrne/Jurgen's written all over it.

StiltmanFTW
Superman and interesting in the same sentence...?

celeyhyga17
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Aaron's run on Thor was incredible but too short.
The run hasn't ended..

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet

I don't like or read D.C., but I love Scott's scans of Injustice!
laughing out loud

cdtm
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Superman and interesting in the same sentence...?

That's my nostalgia talking.

But yes, I thought the Byrne/Jurgen's era, with it's bag of tricks inspired from the Watchmen/Dark Knight Returns stories, was one of the more interesting Supermen.

A focus on the "Man" part of Superman, some interesting reinventions of villains, Lex Luthor the Kingpin clone, the "pre crisis era meets modern" pocket universe saga..

It fell apart fast, but was fun while it lasted.

Galan007
Originally posted by krisblaze
Its as pr put it.

New52 had me interested for a while but it didnt last.

Still a few qualiy books on the indie front though. The DCnU had some fantastic titles that I enjoyed immensely--especially in its infancy:
Animal Man
Captain Atom
Swamp Thing
Aquaman
Demon Knights
Constantine
Dial H
I, Vampire
Action Comics(Morrison's stint)
Justice League Dark

Etc.


However, most of the above were cancelled at some point; and the ones that weren't went to complete shit over time. DC(and Marvel) lack consistency... That's what ultimately drove me away, tbh.

cdtm
I kept put off Constantine because I heard it's watered down Hellblazer..

OTOH, these same fans insist only the first writer in Hellblazer wrote him properly, which is odd since he only did a fraction of his overall history. That would be like me insisting only John Byrne wrote a proper Superman..

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Galan007
Aquaman


http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/2050391/walks-out-o.gif

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by cdtm
The Superman stand in is interesting.

It's 1990's something Supes. Not really even OWAW or anything recent pre Nu52, it has Byrne/Jurgen's written all over it.


Still red undies, right?

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by cdtm
That's my nostalgia talking.

But yes, I thought the Byrne/Jurgen's era, with it's bag of tricks inspired from the Watchmen/Dark Knight Returns stories, was one of the more interesting Supermen.

A focus on the "Man" part of Superman, some interesting reinventions of villains, Lex Luthor the Kingpin clone, the "pre crisis era meets modern" pocket universe saga..

It fell apart fast, but was fun while it lasted.

You do make sense, yes.

And he "died" in DoS big grin

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
The run hasn't ended..


laughing out loud


Its ran out when Thor was no longer on his own title for me.

Digi
I exclusively read stuff that catches my eye in the "great reads..." thread in the comics forum. I may go months without anything, then read 4-5 books back to back.

And I haven't touched DC since Flashpoint (aside from keeping up on scuttlebutt in the Ownage Thread), and haven't read Marvel since...I honestly forget. I held on the longest with Spidey, may have almost made it to Secret Wars with him. But it's been a while for anything else. Like, years.

Originally posted by Cogito
Maybe it works for the next generation of readers, but boring old people like me just want things to stay the same.

None of y'all read sales data. Comics is a high-turnover industry with its readers. This is nothing new, dating back to literally forever. Their entire target demographic is new 16-24 year olds with expendable income and less than adulthood-level bills to pay. That is entirely who Marvel and DC are making comics for. It's why there are constant soft reboots. Makes it easier to jump on. Also why they shoehorn movie tie-ins all the damn time. Because each new movie is a new pop for a particular character's comic. So it has to align as closely as possible. But their average customer is out of the hobby within 4 years, so they don't give a sh*t about us cranky bastards talking about continuity. Sure, they'll throw us a bone with nods to nostalgic stuff and BS continuity explanations. But that's to placate. A certain percentage of superfans and collectors will stay regardless of what they do, just as a certain % will be lost to natural attrition. But we represent exactly 0% of their growth planning. We aren't the audience.

cdtm
You're not missing much. At least not from what little I've read.

It's still nowhere the shit show Dragon Ball Super is, though.

CatL18
I buy and read JL, Superman, Batman, related issues every month.
I thought people of kmc is knowledgeable people about comic.
If even people of kmc don't read comics these day,What is people of other forum like Comicvine?

Cogito
Originally posted by Digi
None of y'all read sales data. Comics is a high-turnover industry with its readers. This is nothing new, dating back to literally forever. Their entire target demographic is new 16-24 year olds with expendable income and less than adulthood-level bills to pay. That is entirely who Marvel and DC are making comics for. It's why there are constant soft reboots. Makes it easier to jump on. Also why they shoehorn movie tie-ins all the damn time. Because each new movie is a new pop for a particular character's comic. So it has to align as closely as possible. But their average customer is out of the hobby within 4 years, so they don't give a sh*t about us cranky bastards talking about continuity. Sure, they'll throw us a bone with nods to nostalgic stuff and BS continuity explanations. But that's to placate. A certain percentage of superfans and collectors will stay regardless of what they do, just as a certain % will be lost to natural attrition. But we represent exactly 0% of their growth planning. We aren't the audience.

thumb up

And no, I'm not reading sales data. If I had time/desire to do that, I'd be reading the issues bermm

Cogito
Originally posted by CatL18
I buy and read JL, Superman, Batman, related issues every month.
I thought people of kmc is knowledgeable people about comic.
If even people of kmc don't read comics these day,What is people of other forum like Comicvine?
I doubt other populations are significantly different. Just because people aren't reading all of the titles doesn't mean they're not aware of significant things going on. We typically argue based more on a history of feats rather than what happened in the last issue. If someone wants to bring in up to the minute facts, they tend to provide the scans to back it up.

beatboks
post nu52 I was getting Earth2, legion lost, red lanterns, Batwing, suicide squad, Demon knights, JLA Dark, and aome DC presents.

I got the shita when DC cancelled Demon Knights (IMHO the best post 52 title they produced) and dropped everything but e2 and related.

Marvel all I've got for years now is Thor, Daredevil, and IF occasionally. if they put out a new Defenders I'd get that in a heartbeat

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by beatboks
if they put out a new Defenders I'd get that in a heartbeat

Even if it's an entirely new team, lol?

Cogito
Originally posted by beatboks
post nu52 I was getting Earth2, legion lost, red lanterns, Batwing, suicide squad, Demon knights, JLA Dark, and aome DC presents.

I got the shita when DC cancelled Demon Knights (IMHO the best post 52 title they produced) and dropped everything but e2 and related.

Totally agree with DK being one of the best titles in the New 52. Totally disagree with E2 being worth reading. Those were the first titles I dropped, only a few issues in.

I'm a big fan of the Justice Society and I was a huge fan of Johns' run, and I hated how they completely altered some of the oldest and most storied characters in comics history thumb down

Digi
Originally posted by Cogito
thumb up

And no, I'm not reading sales data. If I had time/desire to do that, I'd be reading the issues bermm

Ha. Well, to be fair, I'm not doing that anymore either. It's just one of the industry's least well-kept secrets. From the 60's on, writers and publishers have openly admitted that this is the nature of their readers. At one point I found an article that pulled a lot of the data, and quotes, and explained it really clearly. And it makes sense. You leave college and are paying rent, starting a family, whatever. And what gets dropped? Comics. Sure, we'll go see movies, maybe torrent some stuff. But that's just leaving more slowly. And we're talking about this on the internet; we're the exception. Most guys 25-40 who were into comics have a couple lonely boxes in their closet that they haven't touched for a decade, and that's it. That may be slowly changing, as "nerd culture" becomes more mainstream, but not to the point where it would change their business model.

CatL18
So, most people discussing who will win in vs forum all over the internet, don't even read comics?
Really?

DarkSaint85
Exactly.

Only DS' word can be trusted.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Exactly.

Only DS' word can be trusted.

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/custom_avatars/avatar137245_25.gif

Galan007
Originally posted by CatL18
So, most people discussing who will win in vs forum all over the internet, don't even read comics?
Really? It wasn't obvious?

SquallX
Am more into manga now, especially after the crap DC pulled with Convergence. Once it happened, i stopped buying comics.

The only 2 comics I actually follows now are the Buffy/Angel series from Dark Horse.

StiltmanFTW
Yeah, better to avoid Marvel/DC for now thumb up

Sharivan
I still read Image Comics because they never did wrong by me. I read Marvel but generally none of the newer material unless it involves Luke Cage or Lord Rand.

As for New 52 I liked Superboy, and Animal Man was cool. I hated Superman though.

So much.

What they did to him in New 52 made me so hard rock hard with anger. That, and what they did to Lobo.

Juntai
Originally posted by leonidas
i know this will be moved (sorry to be a pain in the a$$ pr) but no one really reads the comic book forum it seems. which is too bad since there is some good sh!t over there.... sad

anyway, just legit curious--how many here still ACTIVELY read current books? i mean newly published WHOLE books, not just the posted bits and pieces in the forum or ownage threads. aside from galan and myself, who's still reading??

i ask, because so many opinions on matches are outdated or simply...uneducated. so who reads what and how much? I download everything every week, and my Amazon and Instocktrades preorder lists contain dozens of books both up to date and old items being recollected. Though I don't get individual issues often or have a LCS pull list anymore. Though I did sneak in and grab rebirth.

Galan007
I get them free digitally, too. What a coinkidink. he

Juntai
Originally posted by Galan007
I get them free digitally, too. What a coinkidink. he Im sure a lot of people do. I get them sent to me for review though. stick out tongue

StiltmanFTW
And... what is that website with your reviews? sly

Galan007
KMC

StiltmanFTW
laughing out loud laughing out loud laughing out loud

Khazra Reborn
I read a lot of Image, IDW, Darkhorse and Valiant, mostly in TPB form, Indy very rarely disappoints. I very seldom buy single monthly issues anymore.

Marvel and DC are both straight shit, if Marvel ever gives Thor his own book again I'd buy that, but other than that the big two need a massive change in their overall directions if they ever want my money again.

Sin I AM
Never understood y marvel whores thor out.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Never understood y marvel whores thor out.

W-23...

Mindset
I just started again, but I don't read Marvel or DC.

-Pr-
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Heh. So it's bad?



thumb up

I have like a few dozens of trades to read...

Bad, insulting, shite, pick one.

Originally posted by Digi
I exclusively read stuff that catches my eye in the "great reads..." thread in the comics forum. I may go months without anything, then read 4-5 books back to back.

And I haven't touched DC since Flashpoint (aside from keeping up on scuttlebutt in the Ownage Thread), and haven't read Marvel since...I honestly forget. I held on the longest with Spidey, may have almost made it to Secret Wars with him. But it's been a while for anything else. Like, years.



None of y'all read sales data. Comics is a high-turnover industry with its readers. This is nothing new, dating back to literally forever. Their entire target demographic is new 16-24 year olds with expendable income and less than adulthood-level bills to pay. That is entirely who Marvel and DC are making comics for. It's why there are constant soft reboots. Makes it easier to jump on. Also why they shoehorn movie tie-ins all the damn time. Because each new movie is a new pop for a particular character's comic. So it has to align as closely as possible. But their average customer is out of the hobby within 4 years, so they don't give a sh*t about us cranky bastards talking about continuity. Sure, they'll throw us a bone with nods to nostalgic stuff and BS continuity explanations. But that's to placate. A certain percentage of superfans and collectors will stay regardless of what they do, just as a certain % will be lost to natural attrition. But we represent exactly 0% of their growth planning. We aren't the audience.

The problem isn't the soft-reboots. It's the strange repackaging and nonsensical changes that seem to be happening wholesale.

I don't care if they rewrite Superman's origin every few years, as long as he's written like Superman. The quality of comics in the big two has fallen drastically in the last few years, imo.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Superman and interesting in the same sentence...?

Don't you like Wolverine?

Digi
Originally posted by -Pr-
The problem isn't the soft-reboots. It's the strange repackaging and nonsensical changes that seem to be happening wholesale.

I don't care if they rewrite Superman's origin every few years, as long as he's written like Superman. The quality of comics in the big two has fallen drastically in the last few years, imo.

Maybe characters you follow haven't had the best treatment. But there are always "good books" at the Big 2 at any given point (and shite books). But I saw - and still see - my personal issue with it as a systemic one. I can handle the quality ebbing and flowing. It's inevitable. But what I lost patience for was the cyclical grind of the events, changes, reboots, etc.

But my original post wasn't so much about the "problems" in comics. It was more just explaining the business model in light of some complaints from long-term fans.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Digi
Maybe characters you follow haven't had the best treatment. But there are always "good books" at the Big 2 at any given point (and shite books). But I saw - and still see - my personal issue with it as a systemic one. I can handle the quality ebbing and flowing. It's inevitable. But what I lost patience for was the cyclical grind of the events, changes, reboots, etc.

But my original post wasn't so much about the "problems" in comics. It was more just explaining the business model in light of some complaints from long-term fans.

Not trying to be hostile; just saying that the business model wasn't a problem five years ago. Or ten years ago, because the comics were good back then.

Or maybe it's just me.

Digi
Originally posted by -Pr-
Not trying to be hostile; just saying that the business model wasn't a problem five years ago. Or ten years ago, because the comics were good back then.

Or maybe it's just me.

No no, I didn't read any hostility. wink

I think it's hard to comment on the quality of an entire company with anything approaching certainty. I certainly can't weigh in on that. So you may very well be right. And I don't think the increasing pace of big events helps much with this. But it's also easy to get jaded, or to have a higher and higher threshold for "great" books as you mature as a reader. Not saying that's the case with you, but there are a lot of factors.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Digi
No no, I didn't read any hostility. wink

I think it's hard to comment on the quality of an entire company with anything approaching certainty. I certainly can't weigh in on that. So you may very well be right. And I don't think the increasing pace of big events helps much with this. But it's also easy to get jaded, or to have a higher and higher threshold for "great" books as you mature as a reader. Not saying that's the case with you, but there are a lot of factors.

TBH, I've actually found that my interests have broadened over the years. The quality of comics, or at least the ones I used to read (which to be fair, is a lot), has gotten to the point where if a comic is "okay", that's acceptable to a point, whereas a while back, I wouldn't have accepted the same thing. That said, when a comic that is REALLY good comes along, I, like you said, am going to have a greater appreciation for it (though I still think Miller's Batman is overrated).

I'm honestly of the opinion that both companies have all but thrown in the towel on a lot of characters, and have, instead of being steadily cyclical, are far too eager to shake things up in ways that don't always make sense in an attempt to be "edgy" and "cool".

I don't think Marvel have as much concern as they used to with their properties. The sabotaging of the X-Men for example. Or how their movies provide so much financial safety that they don't have to try as hard as they used to, and even change things to suit the movie universes more (which isn't always a bad thing mind you, but it tends to be done far too much imo).

DC, instead of owning the reboot, is going back on it when they really shouldn't, and their ridiculous tendency to shuffle writers around has hurt them.

As cyclical as comics are, we're seeing the biggest downturn since the 90s, imo. I'm not going to pretend there aren't good books in each company, but I honestly can't remember a time when so many of the major properties were in such dire straits across the board.

And that's even without going in to all the "SJW" stuff.

-Sigh-

I just want good stories that are at least somewhat faithful to the characters. You can still shake things up without drastically altering the landscape, especially when it's been shown that it hasn't worked for many of them.

Digi
Originally posted by -Pr-
TBH, I've actually found that my interests have broadened over the years. The quality of comics, or at least the ones I used to read (which to be fair, is a lot), has gotten to the point where if a comic is "okay", that's acceptable to a point, whereas a while back, I wouldn't have accepted the same thing. That said, when a comic that is REALLY good comes along, I, like you said, am going to have a greater appreciation for it (though I still think Miller's Batman is overrated).

I'm honestly of the opinion that both companies have all but thrown in the towel on a lot of characters, and have, instead of being steadily cyclical, are far too eager to shake things up in ways that don't always make sense in an attempt to be "edgy" and "cool".

I don't think Marvel have as much concern as they used to with their properties. The sabotaging of the X-Men for example. Or how their movies provide so much financial safety that they don't have to try as hard as they used to, and even change things to suit the movie universes more (which isn't always a bad thing mind you, but it tends to be done far too much imo).

DC, instead of owning the reboot, is going back on it when they really shouldn't, and their ridiculous tendency to shuffle writers around has hurt them.

As cyclical as comics are, we're seeing the biggest downturn since the 90s, imo. I'm not going to pretend there aren't good books in each company, but I honestly can't remember a time when so many of the major properties were in such dire straits across the board.

And that's even without going in to all the "SJW" stuff.

-Sigh-

I just want good stories that are at least somewhat faithful to the characters. You can still shake things up without drastically altering the landscape, especially when it's been shown that it hasn't worked for many of them.

I feel for you, dude, and agree with most of what you're saying here. But retiring to "just a movie watcher" and retreating to good indie titles saved my enjoyment of the medium. My gripes weren't the exact same ones you have here, but a lot of them were variations on the same frustrations. These problems may never go away at this point. Letting go of it, while keeping the good parts of it in my mind, did wonders for my enjoyment of the comics I do still read.

beatboks
Originally posted by Cogito
Totally agree with DK being one of the best titles in the New 52. Totally disagree with E2 being worth reading. Those were the first titles I dropped, only a few issues in.

I'm a big fan of the Justice Society and I was a huge fan of Johns' run, and I hated how they completely altered some of the oldest and most storied characters in comics history thumb down

FTR I never said earth 2 was good. I've been a huge JSA fanboy since the silver age. Alan scott is my favorite character and i absolutely hate what they did to him in the Nu52. I'm also far from keen the way Jay started out so lacking in confidence and sense of self.

I bought it because of my love for JSA and kept getting it in the hope it would get better.the only characters that i liked in the new version are Terry Sloane and thomas Wahne. probabaly because there was such a removal from the original it didnt detract.

DK was literally the only thing NU52 that was awesome. JlA dark was good for for the first year and a half as was batwing.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Digi
I feel for you, dude, and agree with most of what you're saying here. But retiring to "just a movie watcher" and retreating to good indie titles saved my enjoyment of the medium. My gripes weren't the exact same ones you have here, but a lot of them were variations on the same frustrations. These problems may never go away at this point. Letting go of it, while keeping the good parts of it in my mind, did wonders for my enjoyment of the comics I do still read.

I just did what I swore I'd never do: Trust my own headcanon more than the comics themselves.

Originally posted by beatboks
FTR I never said earth 2 was good. I've been a huge JSA fanboy since the silver age. Alan scott is my favorite character and i absolutely hate what they did to him in the Nu52. I'm also far from keen the way Jay started out so lacking in confidence and sense of self.

I bought it because of my love for JSA and kept getting it in the hope it would get better.the only characters that i liked in the new version are Terry Sloane and thomas Wahne. probabaly because there was such a removal from the original it didnt detract.

DK was literally the only thing NU52 that was awesome. JlA dark was good for for the first year and a half as was batwing.

I'd argue that Action under Morrison, Aquaman under Johns, and Justice League by Johns too, was pretty damn good.

Digi
Originally posted by -Pr-
I just did what I swore I'd never do: Trust my own headcanon more than the comics themselves.

Oh, my head canon is insane with this stuff. But I learned a trick. Comics like to tease the next big thing. It's a never-ending cycle. So I'd wait until I was able to read a particularly satisfying arc, and even if there was a next "big bad" or whatever the hell, I would lean into it. That next tease would be the promise of never-ending adventures that I could continue in my mind. Or, more likely, just feel content that they're still going on, without actually acting them out in my mind. Leaving on a high note (hopefully, though not always), but with the promise of more, allowed me to leave the characters unspoiled, as if they were riding off into some sunset. Does that make sense? Or is it only making sense to me?

Perfect example was the Star Wars EU novels. The movies were about to invalidate it as canon, and I knew I was going to need to jump off. A major arc had just ended, but a background figure that had only been hinted at for several years made himself known and had a sort of "I'll get you next time!" confrontation with Luke right at the end. It was perfect, because now in my mind EU Luke is still somewhere out there battling this guy (and other threats). It's honestly better if it never gets resolved for me.

I'm a complete and utter dork like that, I realize. But it really did help me leave this stuff behind.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Digi
Oh, my head canon is insane with this stuff. But I learned a trick. Comics like to tease the next big thing. It's a never-ending cycle. So I'd wait until I was able to read a particularly satisfying arc, and even if there was a next "big bad" or whatever the hell, I would lean into it. That next tease would be the promise of never-ending adventures that I could continue in my mind. Or, more likely, just feel content that they're still going on, without actually acting them out in my mind. Leaving on a high note (hopefully, though not always), but with the promise of more, allowed me to leave the characters unspoiled, as if they were riding off into some sunset. Does that make sense? Or is it only making sense to me?

Perfect example was the Star Wars EU novels. The movies were about to invalidate it as canon, and I knew I was going to need to jump off. A major arc had just ended, but a background figure that had only been hinted at for several years made himself known and had a sort of "I'll get you next time!" confrontation with Luke right at the end. It was perfect, because now in my mind EU Luke is still somewhere out there battling this guy (and other threats). It's honestly better if it never gets resolved for me.

I'm a complete and utter dork like that, I realize. But it really did help me leave this stuff behind.

I did pretty much the same thing with X-Men, tbh.

For me, X-Men ended around the time Osborn attacked the island. Not a high point, but tbh, better than what followed, and in the writing I've been doing, that's my jumping off point.

krisblaze
Originally posted by Galan007
The DCnU had some fantastic titles that I enjoyed immensely--especially in its infancy:
Animal Man
Captain Atom
Swamp Thing
Aquaman
Demon Knights
Constantine
Dial H
I, Vampire
Action Comics(Morrison's stint)
Justice League Dark

Etc.


However, most of the above were cancelled at some point; and the ones that weren't went to complete shit over time. DC(and Marvel) lack consistency... That's what ultimately drove me away, tbh.

Those were excellent, though I later realized that they cannibalized Vertigo to give us said titles.

Morrison, Lemire, Ellis and a few others tend to always offer up quality stuff, but by and by we're in a slump.

Indie titles are too meagre. 15 pages a month isn't enough to keep me occupied, even with 10 titles that's barely an hour worth of reading :/

Facee
Originally posted by leonidas
i know this will be moved (sorry to be a pain in the a$$ pr) but no one really reads the comic book forum it seems. which is too bad since there is some good sh!t over there.... sad

anyway, just legit curious--how many here still ACTIVELY read current books? i mean newly published WHOLE books, not just the posted bits and pieces in the forum or ownage threads. aside from galan and myself, who's still reading??

i ask, because so many opinions on matches are outdated or simply...uneducated. so who reads what and how much?

I think the problem with the comic book forum is that Team Authority is there. The Team Authority thread gets so many hits that it drops the other threads down to the point where they disappear. Maybe the Authority thread should get moved somewhere else idk.

Impediment
I'm 36 and I've been reading and collecting since I was 10, with the exception of a few years hiatus when I was in the US Army and when I first became a father. Now I'm back in the game full throttle.

Blair Wind
I've been much more into manga and anime lately, to be honest. Maybe it's the fact that it's one creator working on a never ending title. Or it's that each writer at Marvel/DC has to try and one up the other when they pick up new stories, meaning plot threads that have been dropped as hints for later ever get used when a new writer jumps on board, making everything feel inconsistent.

I'd rather read Fullmetal Alchemist, Naruto, Ghost in the Shell, etc over anything at Marvel/DC right now. Except maybe their graphic novel one shots (i.e. DC's Earth 1 series is great IMO) because they get the chance to tell a complete story.

I also think that most manga, even the super popular ones like Naruto, made exclusively for kids-teens, are much deeper thematically and cover more ground in interpersonal issues than say Iron Man. Obviously you have things that are super shallow made for panty shots, but the fact is even the made for the masses works like Naruto/One Piece cover more narrative issues than any equivalent comics besides maybe Spider man who, at his heart is about a guy dealing with normal human issues and the complications that arise because he's also a superhero.

Impediment
I'm currently reading Saga, Sex Criminals, Southern Bastards, Constantine: The Hellblazer, The Walking Dead, Savage Dragon, The DC Rebirth lineup, Civil War II, Survivor's Club, and the new Punisher.

krisblaze
Southern Bastards is quality stuff. Just excellent.

There's also stuff like Colder, Copperhead and Invisible Republic.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
I've been much more into manga and anime lately, to be honest. Maybe it's the fact that it's one creator working on a never ending title. Or it's that each writer at Marvel/DC has to try and one up the other when they pick up new stories, meaning plot threads that have been dropped as hints for later ever get used when a new writer jumps on board, making everything feel inconsistent.

I'd rather read Fullmetal Alchemist, Naruto, Ghost in the Shell, etc over anything at Marvel/DC right now. Except maybe their graphic novel one shots (i.e. DC's Earth 1 series is great IMO) because they get the chance to tell a complete story.

I also think that most manga, even the super popular ones like Naruto, made exclusively for kids-teens, are much deeper thematically and cover more ground in interpersonal issues than say Iron Man. Obviously you have things that are super shallow made for panty shots, but the fact is even the made for the masses works like Naruto/One Piece cover more narrative issues than any equivalent comics besides maybe Spider man who, at his heart is about a guy dealing with normal human issues and the complications that arise because he's also a superhero.

Even the mainstream stuff in Japan seems to stay a couple of levels of quality over the big titles DC and Marvel churn out. With the exception of a few very, very good titles like Lucifer, Miracleman or The Invisibles, I think my top stories are manga. The Japanese business approach is also infinitely more consumer friendly I believe, maybe because manga make out a far greater share of their profits. Marvel make more off of toys than they do on comics.

Looking at it from a genre point of view I'd say that:
Comics seem to tackle mysticism, cosmic stuff, meta and mythology very well. Manga is the winner when it comes to horror, mystery, fantasy and martial arts.

Politics and sci-fi is a toss up.

Mindset
Originally posted by Blair Wind
I've been much more into manga and anime lately, to be honest. Maybe it's the fact that it's one creator working on a never ending title. Or it's that each writer at Marvel/DC has to try and one up the other when they pick up new stories, meaning plot threads that have been dropped as hints for later ever get used when a new writer jumps on board, making everything feel inconsistent.

I'd rather read Fullmetal Alchemist, Naruto, Ghost in the Shell, etc over anything at Marvel/DC right now. Except maybe their graphic novel one shots (i.e. DC's Earth 1 series is great IMO) because they get the chance to tell a complete story.

I also think that most manga, even the super popular ones like Naruto, made exclusively for kids-teens, are much deeper thematically and cover more ground in interpersonal issues than say Iron Man. Obviously you have things that are super shallow made for panty shots, but the fact is even the made for the masses works like Naruto/One Piece cover more narrative issues than any equivalent comics besides maybe Spider man who, at his heart is about a guy dealing with normal human issues and the complications that arise because he's also a superhero. Read better manga.

cdtm
Originally posted by Mindset
Read better manga.

thumb up

Mindset
Originally posted by cdtm
thumb up What do you read?

I'm reading Vinland Saga, Berserk, and Vagabond right now.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Mindset
What do you read?

I'm reading Vinland Saga, Berserk, and Vagabond right now. http://i64.tinypic.com/mbtva1.gif

krisblaze
Originally posted by Mindset
What do you read?

I'm reading Vinland Saga, Berserk, and Vagabond right now.

Two manga about farming and one about sailing.

What excellent choices smile

psycho gundam
Lol those are the manliest manga of all time with arguably the best pencil work

Mindset
Originally posted by krisblaze
Two manga about farming and one about sailing.

What excellent choices smile Aren't you from Norway?

That's pretty much your cultural history.

Galan007
Originally posted by Impediment
I'm currently reading Saga, Sex Criminals, Southern Bastards, Constantine: The Hellblazer, The Walking Dead, Savage Dragon, The DC Rebirth lineup, Civil War II, Survivor's Club, and the new Punisher. This is a solid Indie roster. I highly recommend checking out...well...anything from Valiant if you haven't already. The quality is unmatched.

My personal favorites from Valiant are X-O Manowar and Ninjak. Rai and Eternal Warrior are also stellar--but like I said, I haven't disliked any title(s) Valiant has published so far. Shit is legit. thumb up

beatboks
Originally posted by -Pr-
I just did what I swore I'd never do: Trust my own headcanon more than the comics themselves.



I'd argue that Action under Morrison, Aquaman under Johns, and Justice League by Johns too, was pretty damn good.

i never got a single issue of Action so really not equipped to comment. I only got a hanful of early issues of JLA a d dropped it because I was underwhelmed.

but yeah Aquaman started off pretty good, at least what issues i could pick up. out LCS literally only orders a few copies of anything beyond committed and prepaid for comcis. you literally have to be paid up 3 months in advance to be sure you get a copy and when you cancel you still get that three months. its the same at most comic shops in australia unfortunately (except the big ones like kings comics in sydney but then your stuck with much higher postage charges than you'd get elsewhere)

CatL18
Originally posted by Galan007
It wasn't obvious?
So, for example, most people in comicvine hardly read any comic book despite they create countless thread about comics everyday?
They are far less knowledgeable than here.

krisblaze
Originally posted by Mindset
Aren't you from Norway?

That's pretty much your cultural history.
Savage

Shit like this is what's killing the industry btw.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cktgk4oUYAAsCAy.jpg

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by CatL18
So, for example, most people in comicvine hardly read any comic book despite they create countless thread about comics everyday?
They are far less knowledgeable than here.

Read the OP again.

Most of us don't follow the new releases, but we still read a shitload of old books. That's what makes us different from comicviners, they post stuff like fights from books based on the animated series - like Adventures of the X-Men - and treat it as canon.

SquallX
Some of my manga readds

Berserk
JoJo Bizarre's Adventure
Magi
Hajime Ippo
The Breaker

Those are still on going series. Ippo and JoJo's been going on for at least 20 yrs now.

Galan007
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Read the OP again.

Most of us don't follow the new releases, but we still read a shitload of old books. That's what makes us different from comicviners, they post stuff like fights from books based on the animated series - like Adventures of the X-Men - and treat it as canon. Except Stilt. He has read less than carver. thumb up

Estacado
Carver is the only one reading comics here. Anyone else who says he does is prolly a phuckin liar...

StiltmanFTW
thumb up

Our Master Carver the Great has read every comic ever published on the planet.

Galan007
Originally posted by Estacado
Carver is the only one reading comics here. Anyone else who says he does is prolly a phuckin liar... Nice sig/avy. thumb up

Where'd that Atro render come from?

Estacado
Originally posted by Galan007
Nice sig/avy. thumb up

Where'd that Atro render come from?
Thanks.

One is Infinite Crisis art in which he was playable.

http://gamersinbeta.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Infinite-Crisis-Atrocitus-art.jpg

Other is from deviantart.

http://orig11.deviantart.net/fa87/f/2011/122/b/2/atrocitus_by_noprips-d3fgl7r.jpg

Also he will be playable in Injustice 2.
Im phuckin pumped!!

Impediment
Originally posted by Galan007
This is a solid Indie roster. I highly recommend checking out...well...anything from Valiant if you haven't already. The quality is unmatched.

My personal favorites from Valiant are X-O Manowar and Ninjak. Rai and Eternal Warrior are also stellar--but like I said, I haven't disliked any title(s) Valiant has published so far. Shit is legit. thumb up

I used to have so many Valiant comics when I was a teenager. My favorites were The Second Life of Dr. Mirage, Shadowman, Harbinger, and Ninjak.

Galan007
Yeah, that was the original Valiant. I was referring to the current, rebooted Valiant. The titles are fantastic... Much better than the original overall, imo.

CatL18
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Read the OP again.

Most of us don't follow the new releases, but we still read a shitload of old books. That's what makes us different from comicviners, they post stuff like fights from books based on the animated series - like Adventures of the X-Men - and treat it as canon.
So, they discuss comic book hero that they know little about?

I wonderd that Most of them even think DC universe consist of only 52 universe.

Vanguard
I haven't bought a comic book in a couple months. Most of the stuff I've been reading is online. But I haven't done much of that lately either.

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