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What's a definitive herald stopping point? Let me re-phrase. What hero or villian is beyond a heralds ability to compete with? Which hero/villian would beat them 10/10 without going into the sky/abstract tier?

a well written time manipulator. like waverider. or a haxx character.

Superman

Herald level characters have been known to go well beyond their pay grade. Thor, Superman, Silver Surfer, even Wonder Woman for instance have been able to affect Galactus level characters when push comes to shove. You can't really place a strict stopping point on them until they reach that level. Once they do, their forward progress dramatically diminishes.

Originally posted by Stoic
Herald level characters have been known to go well beyond their pay grade. Thor, Superman, Silver Surfer, even Wonder Woman for instance have been able to affect Galactus level characters when push comes to shove. You can't really place a strict stopping point on them until they reach that level. Once they do, their forward progress dramatically diminishes.

Thats what im asking. At their best who can put them down

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Thats what im asking. At their best who can put them down

High end trancendents. I can't see them powering through guys like Classic Fate or Black Racer.

Beating Thanos is imo beyond a herald's capabilities.

Originally posted by "Id"
High end trancendents. I can't see them powering through guys like Classic Fate or Black Racer.

So OWAW supes couldnt handle fate? Or Thanos??

I mean at their absolute best

If they are true heralds I don't see him beating Thanos

Originally posted by Sin I AM
So OWAW supes couldnt handle fate? Or Thanos??

I mean at their absolute best
No comment for Thanos.


Have you seen at what scale Classic Fate operated when he takes off his kids gloves? It shoots straight up to abstract levels.

Besides OWAW Superman is Superman with a sun amp. He should not count.

Majority of the high end Heralds can be bfred... but outright beating the best of the best in a fight is a hard choice, even for Thanos. I would say that Tyrant is their stopping point without bfr but I could see Hulk powering through his blast punching his shell to dust.

Hmmmm forgot about the amp.

Originally posted by carver9
Majority of the high end Heralds can be bfred... but outright beating the best of the best in a fight is a hard choice, even for Thanos. I would say that Tyrant is their stopping point without bfr but I could see Hulk powering through his blast punching his shell to dust.

Dp tyrant?

Originally posted by carver9
Majority of the high end Heralds can be bfred... but outright beating the best of the best in a fight is a hard choice, even for Thanos. I would say that Tyrant is their stopping point without bfr but I could see Hulk powering through his blast punching his shell to dust.

WHORISH LIES!!!!

According to canon, there was really no such thing as a depowered version of Tyrant, unless it was when he was in giant form. After all, he did far better against Galactus when he was 9 feet tall, than when he was the size of a planet. He would have won that battle as well, if not for Morg nullifying him from existence. I would also absolutely say that Tyrant would be the end of the line for just about any Herald level being. So if we were to push the boundaries , my list would be Death Seed Sentry, OWAW Superman, Millenius, Thanos, and Zeus. Tyrant is really going too far, as he would likely curb Odin.

Originally posted by Stoic
According to canon, there was really no such thing as a depowered version of Tyrant, unless it was when he was in giant form. After all, he did far better against Galactus when he was 9 feet tall, than when he was the size of a planet. He would have won that battle as well, if not for Morg nullifying him from existence. I would also absolutely say that Tyrant would be the end of the line for just about any Herald level being. So if we were to push the boundaries , my list would be Death Seed Sentry, OWAW Superman, Millenius, Thanos, and Zeus. Tyrant is really going too far, as he would likely curb Odin.

Good answer

Thanos stood toe to toe with Thor\w the power gem that was an amped high herald he beat SS to death another high herald he stood for abit with Tyrant who defeated SS, Gladiator, BRB, Ganymede, & Jack of Hearts and even Tyrant said you are above these others. Odin gave Thanos praise in there fight.

Carver nentioned hulk. And my thing with hulk and thats any hh brick is unless bfr is off. They should get shunted to another universe/timeline

Originally posted by golem370
Beating Thanos is imo beyond a herald's capabilities.

No its not, especially when a Herald actually fights to the best of their ability.

Imo I disagree

Originally posted by h1a8
No its not, especially when a Herald actually fights to the best of their ability.

What Herald u thinkin of

Originally posted by Stoic
According to canon, there was really no such thing as a depowered version of Tyrant, unless it was when he was in giant form. After all, he did far better against Galactus when he was 9 feet tall, than when he was the size of a planet. He would have won that battle as well, if not for Morg nullifying him from existence. I would also absolutely say that Tyrant would be the end of the line for just about any Herald level being. So if we were to push the boundaries , my list would be Death Seed Sentry, OWAW Superman, Millenius, Thanos, and Zeus. Tyrant is really going too far, as he would likely curb Odin. I disagree. Tyrant absorbed Galactus energy just to give him a chance. Without doing that Galactus would have beaten him like a fee.

Depowered Tyrant is the short one after being DEPOWERED by Galactus years ago.
Tyrant was never the size of a planet. The size of Galactus is what he was.

Originally posted by h1a8
No its not, especially when a Herald actually fights to the best of their ability.

Then you would have to factor in what happens when Thanos fights to the best of his abilities. You would of course then have to remove your biased glasses, and give the props due to him.

Originally posted by abhilegend
How about being stated to be more powerful than entire JLA.



Keep in mind Hal had Krona's gauntlet there which is about a dozen times more powerful than a standard GL ring.


.why doesn't vandal savage have power

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Carver nentioned hulk. And my thing with hulk and thats any hh brick is unless bfr is off. They should get shunted to another universe/timeline

Wouldn't that apply to every herald outside of Surfer and Thor. You one upped Stoic post but Superman can be bfred as well. Also, trying to throw Hulk into another Universe won't work.

Originally posted by abhilegend
How about being stated to be more powerful than entire JLA.



Keep in mind Hal had Krona's gauntlet there which is about a dozen times more powerful than a standard GL ring.



And Hulk has been said to have infinite power and as being the most powerful being in Existence. Hell, it was said last yr that he is one of the most powerful being in the Universe.

Just that? Superman is stated to be one of the most powerful beings in omniverse.

When Hulk is stated to be more powerful than say Silver Surfer and Thor combined, let me know.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
.why doesn't vandal savage have power
What?

Originally posted by abhilegend
What?

He's basically an immortal batman at this point

Originally posted by abhilegend
Just that? Superman is stated to be one of the most powerful beings in omniverse.

When Hulk is stated to be more powerful than say Silver Surfer and Thor combined, let me know. Originally posted by carver9
Wouldn't that apply to every herald outside of Surfer and Thor. You one upped Stoic post but Superman can be bfred as well. Also, trying to throw Hulk into another Universe won't work.

Ijs if everyone is fighting to their best bricks like Clark and Bruce would immediately get bfred

Originally posted by abhilegend
Just that? Superman is stated to be one of the most powerful beings in omniverse.

When Hulk is stated to be more powerful than say Silver Surfer and Thor combined, let me know.

Being said as being the most powerful being in the universe includes Thor and Surfer.

Originally posted by carver9
Being said as being the most powerful being in the universe includes Thor and Surfer.


Wut? Where is he stated to be THE most powerful being in universe?

And that would imply he is more powerful than them individually. Not combined.

Owns him.


http://s28.postimg.org/szr4j78jt/Justice_League_2011_047_008.jpg http://s28.postimg.org/wn6vp9gqx/Justice_League_2011_047_009.jpg http://s28.postimg.org/5dviarfnt/Justice_League_2011_047_010.jpg http://s28.postimg.org/dyou1xpu1/Justice_League_2011_047_018.jpg http://s28.postimg.org/vq0gge58p/Justice_League_2011_047_019.jpg http://s28.postimg.org/3r6apj3m1/Justice_League_2011_047_020.jpg

Outperforms Superman.

Originally posted by carver9
This does as well.


http://s21.postimg.org/hqtu1q0z7/image.jpg http://s21.postimg.org/kyybern8z/image.jpg http://s21.postimg.org/wckupyxrn/image.jpg http://s21.postimg.org/5asiu8i9f/image.jpg http://s21.postimg.org/wityfbhir/image.jpg http://s21.postimg.org/4u7b7suib/image.jpg

Outperforms Superman.

Originally posted by carver9
Wonder Woman does better than Superman against two kryptonians. Far better.

http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/shogunofharlem1/th_Superman-WonderWoman2013-005-012_zpse75f4033.jpghttp://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/shogunofharlem1/th_Superman-WonderWoman2013-005-014_zpsfff7f5fd.jpghttp://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/shogunofharlem1/th_Superman-WonderWoman2013-005-015_zps70bfb751.jpghttp://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/shogunofharlem1/th_Superman-WonderWoman2013-005-016_zps39842c58.jpghttp://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/shogunofharlem1/th_Superman-WonderWoman2013-005-017_zps2f7ade38.jpghttp://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/shogunofharlem1/th_Superman-WonderWoman2013-005-018_zpsc0831be2.jpghttp://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/shogunofharlem1/th_Superman-WonderWoman2013-005-020_zps886fcd2d.jpg

Hell, she defeated Mongul solo when it took the combine force of Superman and an amped Batman to do the job.

Wrong thread.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Wut? Where is he stated to be THE most powerful being in universe?

And that would imply he is more powerful than them individually. Not combined.

In heart of monsters.

Lol, there are beings that dwarf Surfer and Thor in power. Yes, that means that he is more powerful than them combined. The guy has unlimited power.

Make ONE MORE anti-Superman post, Carver, and I promise......

IT WILL BE YOUR LAST ON KMC!!!!!!

Originally posted by carver9
Outperforms Superman. Originally posted by carver9
Outperforms Superman. Originally posted by carver9
Hell, she defeated Mongul solo when it took the combine force of Superman and an amped Batman to do the job.


What idiocy is this? She helped him regain his mind. That's it. A fraction of Superman's power was enough to oneshot her twice.

He was literally far more powerful than her AND entire JLA combined.

She is a step below him in everything.

Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Make ONE MORE anti-Superman post, Carver, and I promise......

IT WILL BE YOUR LAST ON KMC!!!!!!

Originally posted by abhilegend


What idiocy is this? She helped him regain his mind. That's it. A fraction of Superman's power was enough to oneshot her twice.

He was literally far more powerful than her AND entire JLA combined.

She is a step below him in everything.

She did help him regain his mind, by beating him...lol.

Disagree with your interpretation of that scene. Also, Superman power wasn't being drained at one time, the draining process was going on for months from Vandal. Lol.

Nope, she isn't.

Originally posted by carver9
She did help him regain his mind, by beating him...lol.

Disagree with your interpretation of that scene. Also, Superman power wasn't being drained at one time, the draining process was going on for months from Vandal. Lol.

Nope, she isn't.

Fangirl is that you?

Yes.

Originally posted by carver9
She did help him regain his mind, by beating him...lol.

No, she didn't. The lasso is a tool for people to see who they are. It only worked on Superman because he was unstable at that point.



Haha, oh you fool. It was flat out stated that all of the heroes' power was far less than Superman's.

Superman wasn't getting powered up after drained. He was getting weakened each time and he was stuck at that power level.

http://s6d7.turboimg.net/sp/3d379f8b080a87a9caa63274191db2e7/IgnorantMarvelFanboys.png



Of course she is. Stated clearly in the comics.

Originally posted by carver9
Yes.

Since when did you become a cheerleader of Diana Prince

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Since when did you become a cheerleader of Diana Prince

Lol...everyone knows Diana is one of my favorite character. If not my favorite.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, she didn't. The lasso is a tool for people to see who they are. It only worked on Superman because he was unstable at that point.



Haha, oh you fool. It was flat out stated that all of the heroes' power was far less than Superman's.

Superman wasn't getting powered up after drained. He was getting weakened each time and he was stuck at that power level.

http://s6d7.turboimg.net/sp/3d379f8b080a87a9caa63274191db2e7/IgnorantMarvelFanboys.png



Of course she is. Stated clearly in the comics.

She had to force the lasso on him which is what she did. If she wanted to kill Superman right there, she could have and easily. It wouldn't have been a thing be could've done about it.

Scans of it saying their combined power was far less than his.

Vandal didn't drain Clark powers once you nut. It was a prolong process.

She's not weaker than him. Based off showings their either equals or she has the edge with her current but forever having amp.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...everyone knows Diana is one of my favorite character. If not my favorite.

Have you broken the news to Bruce yet?

Originally posted by carver9
She had to force the lasso on him which is what she did. If she wanted to kill Superman right there, she could have and easily. It wouldn't have been a thing be could've done about it.

She wrapped the lasso around him. That's it. No, she couldn't do anything to him physically. That's the whole point of that scene. Heck, he was stalemating Darkseid by himself in that comic.



http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/25907755/Action_Comics_2011-_050-007.jpg.html

Wonder Woman was captured and drained as well. She was freed by Superman.

http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/25910837_Action_Comics_2011-_048-004.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/25910844_Action_Comics_2011-_048-011.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/25910959_Action_Comics_2011-_048-020.jpghttp://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/25910849_Action_Comics_2011-_048-023.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/25910856_Action_Comics_2011-_048-024.jpg

While she freed her, Justice League United was captured, and it was stated that their combined power was enough to compensate for Diana's escape. (explicitly stated that their combined 6 power was 103.2 percent that of Diana's).



Yes, and Superman was continuously getting weaker. It wasn't like Superman was getting at full power after each draining.

Read the ****ing comic.





Hahaha, she is explicitly weaker than him. Far weaker. Even a portion of Superman's power is enough to stomp her twice.

Originally posted by Stoic
Then you would have to factor in what happens when Thanos fights to the best of his abilities. You would of course then have to remove your biased glasses, and give the props due to him.

Thanos mostly fights to the best of his abilities. The heralds fighting him don't.

Now when I say fight to the best of one's ability it has to be SHOWN BEFORE in comics. So use certain scenes or instances that were shown for Thanos and do so with the heralds and some heralds stomp him or at least make a great fight before going down.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thanos mostly fights to the best of his abilities. The heralds fighting him don't.

Now when I say fight to the best of one's ability it has to be SHOWN BEFORE in comics. So use certain scenes or instances that were shown for Thanos and do so with the heralds and some heralds stomp him or at least make a great fight before going down.

When has Thanos fought to the best of his abilities

Originally posted by abhilegend
She wrapped the lasso around him. That's it. No, she couldn't do anything to him physically. That's the whole point of that scene. Heck, he was stalemating Darkseid by himself in that comic.



http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/25907755/Action_Comics_2011-_050-007.jpg.html

Wonder Woman was captured and drained as well. She was freed by Superman.

http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/25910837_Action_Comics_2011-_048-004.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/25910844_Action_Comics_2011-_048-011.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/25910959_Action_Comics_2011-_048-020.jpghttp://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/25910849_Action_Comics_2011-_048-023.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/25910856_Action_Comics_2011-_048-024.jpg

While she freed her, Justice League United was captured, and it was stated that their combined power was enough to compensate for Diana's escape. (explicitly stated that their combined 6 power was 103.2 percent that of Diana's).



Yes, and Superman was continuously getting weaker. It wasn't like Superman was getting at full power after each draining.

Read the ****ing comic.





Hahaha, she is explicitly weaker than him. Far weaker. Even a portion of Superman's power is enough to stomp her twice.

Lol...she sliced him across the chest making him scream out in pain.

https://postimg.org/image/wn6vp9gqx/

He was subdued by her. Helpless. Yes, she could have ended that fight any time she wanted. She did end it by incapacitation.

Lol...the full draining process didn't happen with WW and it wasn't an ongoing process like Superman.

Again, it was an ongoing process. Also, Parasite absorbed Superman with ease the same parasite who couldn't even handle Wonder Woman power (or Flash if that's who you want to use). What does that tell us? He isn't packing the most power on the team. Let alone against the entirety of the JLA.

The sun was replenishing his power. The only time he begin having issues with charging back up is when he continuously start tapping into his solar Flare.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
When has Thanos fought to the best of his abilities You forgot the critical "AS SHOWN BEFORE".

The scenes were Thanos performs particular actions the best is when he is shown to fight to the best of his ability.

If there is any scene where Thanos performs an action better than the one at question then the action at question doesn't represent Thanos performing it at his best (because he has shown better).

But if a character has never shown better than a particular instance then that instance is the best.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...she sliced him across the chest making him scream out in pain.

https://postimg.org/image/wn6vp9gqx/

Yeah, that's quite a show of power. Logan stabbed right through Gladiator. Must be more powerful than Gladiator.





He was never incapacitated. The lasso can't do that anymore, its only a weapon to make people see who they are.

But I'd like to see where he was incapacitated. Or how she could have ended that fight when she was busy hanging on that rope for dear life.



Haha, that's just the opposite of what happened. Your excuses are as shitty as your reasoning.



No, it wasn't.



That was speedforce. No wonder woman.



Of course he is. Explicitly stated. Don't like it? Nobody cares.



Haha, no. It was explicitly stated. His powers were being drained by the solar flares by Hordar_Root.

How may things are you going to make up? What excuses will be there for Solarman to oneshot Wonder Woman twice?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, that's quite a show of power. Logan stabbed right through Gladiator. Must be more powerful than Gladiator.

He is. Remember that planet-busting feat?

It was actually Wolverine cosplaying as Glads (Glads begged him to).

Of course, the tentacle-rape that happened afterwards... that was Carv9 cosplaying as Glads And he loved every nanosecond of it.

Originally posted by h1a8
You forgot the critical "AS SHOWN BEFORE".

The scenes were Thanos performs particular actions the best is when he is shown to fight to the best of his ability.

If there is any scene where Thanos performs an action better than the one at question then the action at question doesn't represent Thanos performing it at his best (because he has shown better).

But if a character has never shown better than a particular instance then that instance is the best.

Long winded...a simple yes or no would suffice

When The Hulk isn't necessarily needed in a thread....leave it to Carver to hype him up for the sake of it

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Long winded...a simple yes or no would suffice

lol, you asked 'when' and that's not a yes or no question.

Originally posted by carver9
In heart of monsters.

Lol, there are beings that dwarf Surfer and Thor in power. Yes, that means that he is more powerful than them combined. The guy has unlimited power.

Carver, by your logic Cyclops has unlimited power as well.

Both these characters channel their energies from another dimension. But neither one of them has actually unlimited power. They just have the potential to tap into unlimited energies. But that's not going to happen anytime soon. And even if that were to ever happen, I highly doubt it would happen instantly.

Hulk would never ever be able to tap into enough energy to survive a serious onslaught from someone like Tyrant. If Tyrant wanted Hulk dead, Hulk would die.

I'm not getting involved in yet another nonsense Superman vs. the World thread, but I will butt in for one second here-
Originally posted by "Id"
Besides OWAW Superman is Superman with a sun amp. He should not count. This is false. When people talk about OWAW Superman they're talking about the Probe-shredding issues. The only "amp" he had then was ditching his mental blocks on his powers.

He sundipped at the very end against B13

Originally posted by Enzeru
Carver, by your logic Cyclops has unlimited power as well.

Both these characters channel their energies from another dimension. But neither one of them has actually unlimited power. They just have the potential to tap into unlimited energies. But that's not going to happen anytime soon. And even if that were to ever happen, I highly doubt it would happen instantly.

Hulk would never ever be able to tap into enough energy to survive a serious onslaught from someone like Tyrant. If Tyrant wanted Hulk dead, Hulk would die.

Why not? These are comics. The writer can create anyone to do anything he wants. There are no rules to follow.
A writer can easily have Hulk be billions of times more powerful than Tyrant if he wants.

With that said, WBH would pinky pluck Tyrant and Tyrant would be dead.

Originally posted by Cogito
I'm not getting involved in yet another nonsense Superman vs. the World thread, but I will butt in for one second here-
This is false. When people talk about OWAW Superman they're talking about the Probe-shredding issues. The only "amp" he had then was ditching his mental blocks on his powers.

He sundipped at the very end against B13

So do we discount the brainiac fight when referencing owaw

A Probe also broke Superman arm and the discharged energy koed him. I guess we pick and choose.

Originally posted by h1a8


With that said, WBH would pinky pluck Tyrant and Tyrant would be dead.

Galactus at his absolute lowest and most starved is so much more powerful than World Breaker Hulk. And Galactus had to feed in order to face Tyrant.

Tyrant kills Hulk.

http://images.killermovies.com/forums/custom_avatars/avatar137662_1.gif

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
http://images.killermovies.com/forums/custom_avatars/avatar137662_1.gif

Beautiful.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
So do we discount the brainiac fight when referencing owaw

We don't discount it, it's a different discussion entirely. If you want to talk about Sundipped Superman, talk about Sundipped Superman, not regular un-Sundipped Superman

Originally posted by Cogito
We don't discount it, it's a different discussion entirely. If you want to talk about Sundipped Superman, talk about Sundipped Superman, not regular un-Sundipped Superman

Good answer