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1. WW Hulk
2. World Breaker Hulk

http://i64.tinypic.com/mab3o2.jpg

vs

http://i64.tinypic.com/nfgsw0.jpg

Pre crisis? Hulk gets his shit kicked in.

Hulk wins, easily.

Mogul

Hulk wins. Not easily, but he wins

Does anyone have any reasoning other than , "his fists"?

Originally posted by Zack M
Does anyone have any reasoning other than , "his fists"?

Mongul is an overall better fighter than Hulk, he's also more cunning, more ruthless, smarter, a better tactician, overall more experience, and if all those things didn't get you're panties soaking wet, the man was a ****ing Pre-Crisis era bricked that beat Superman's ass more often than not.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Pre crisis? Hulk gets his shit kicked in.

Originally posted by SquallX
Mongul is an overall better fighter than Hulk, he's also more cunning, more ruthless, smarter, a better tactician, overall more experience, and if all those things didn't get you're panties soaking wet, the man was a ****ing Pre-Crisis era bricked that beat Superman's ass more often than not.



You fanboys make my day. Mongul has no chance in either. What don't you guy get about not being able to beat Hulk (especially these versions) with pounding?

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
You fanboys make my day. Mongul has no chance in either. What don't you guy get about not being able to beat Hulk (especially these versions) with pounding?

Name calling without evidence huh? ****ing priceless.

Even more priceless by stating that Hulk can't be beat from being pounded upon?

How about this then? Make a thread of a pre crisis heavy hitter vs any versions of Hulk, then sit back and see.

Here's one, Validus for starters.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
You fanboys make my day. Mongul has no chance in either. What don't you guy get about not being able to beat Hulk (especially these versions) with pounding?
Chaos War Abomination did exactly that.

Originally posted by SquallX
Mongul is an overall better fighter than Hulk, he's also more cunning, more ruthless, smarter, a better tactician, overall more experience, and if all those things didn't get you're panties soaking wet, the man was a ****ing Pre-Crisis era bricked that beat Superman's ass more often than not.

I just found this respect thread. You're right. He only lost to Superman ONCE and nearly OWNED him the other times. He also took on entire teams like the LOSH.

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/mongul-the-elder/4005-90132/forums/pre-crisis-mongul-respect-thread-1598457/

Originally posted by SquallX
Mongul is an overall better fighter than Hulk, he's also more cunning, more ruthless, smarter, a better tactician, overall more experience, and if all those things didn't get you're panties soaking wet, the man was a ****ing Pre-Crisis era bricked that beat Superman's ass more often than not. alright.....so most of what you said is highly debatable. I need some sort of proof that he's smarter (this is banner that we're talking about), more skilled (man's fought side by side with the avengers, been a gladiator, and should certainly have some training), more cunning (again, banner has outsmarted his opponents tons of times over the decades), or has more experience (we're talking about a guy that's fought everything from the army to ancient eldritchian gods. Moreover, he's had way more showings than mongul).

Hulk beat down three entire x-men related lineups on his own. He's soloed multiple avengers lineups over the years. Hell, the motherphucker punched through time itself.

IIRC, Mongul was also invlolved in gladiator type matches fighting beings from across the universe. Didn't he hold it in Warworld?

Originally posted by deathslash
alright.....so most of what you said is highly debatable. I need some sort of proof that he's smarter (this is banner that we're talking about), more skilled (man's fought side by side with the avengers, been a gladiator, and should certainly have some training), more cunning (again, banner has outsmarted his opponents tons of times over the decades), or has more experience (we're talking about a guy that's fought everything from the army to ancient eldritchian gods. Moreover, he's had way more showings than mongul).

Hulk beat down three entire x-men related lineups on his own. He's soloed multiple avengers lineups over the years. Hell, the motherphucker punched through time itself.

Look at the respect thread. Mongul solos Pre-crisis JLA and LOSH. Both teams are >> X-Men and Avengers.

Can he really win against WBH? X-Men and Avengers never faced WBH.

When was the last time WBH was on the scene?

In pure physical fight, Superman doesn't stand a chance against WBH nor no one from JLA and LOSH.

Originally posted by Inedian
Can he really win against WBH? X-Men and Avengers never faced WBH.

When was the last time WBH was on the scene?

In pure physical fight, Superman doesn't stand a chance against WBH nor no one from JLA and LOSH.


Hell no and they know it.

Originally posted by Inedian
Can he really win against WBH? X-Men and Avengers never faced WBH.

When was the last time WBH was on the scene?

In pure physical fight, Superman doesn't stand a chance against WBH nor no one from JLA and LOSH.

What did WBH do that was so impressive?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Chaos War Abomination did exactly that.





I'm sorry, he did that too WWH?

Originally posted by Zack M
What did WBH do that was so impressive?

Being far more powerful than any version of Hulk, including WWH.

Originally posted by Inedian
Being far more powerful than any version of Hulk, including WWH.

I wouldn't put WBH above the likes of PC Superman. Someone who casually destroyed a solar system with a sneeze, towed 16 planets to the other side of the universe without breaking a sweat, moving FTL, etc... That guy barely put down Mongul and was owned by him twice.

Originally posted by Zack M
I wouldn't put WBH above the likes of PC Superman. Someone who casually destroyed a solar system with a sneeze, towed 16 planets to the other side of the universe without breaking a sweat, moving FTL, etc... That guy barely put down Mongul and was owned by him twice.

And WWH put down Dr Strange with power of Zom (although not full power of Zom) and put down a guy with power of million exploding suns

Hulk has also used his thunderclap to reverse a shockwave capable of destroying a galaxy.

WBH was above that and was always holding back.

He also destroyed The Dark Dimension.

Originally posted by Zack M
I wouldn't put WBH above the likes of PC Superman. Someone who casually destroyed a solar system with a sneeze, towed 16 planets to the other side of the universe without breaking a sweat, moving FTL, etc... That guy barely put down Mongul and was owned by him twice. he also had trouble picking up a fat Lois Lane among other hilariously low end feats that even a real life human could do. Pre-crisis characters fluctuated a lot. That said, I do recognize that PC characters were generally more powerful. Also, WBH nearly sunk the Eastern seaboard with his footsteps and IIRC, he destroyed a dimension.

Superman faced a being that destroyed dimensions, too. Hell, he had the POWER of a universe within him. His name was Maaldor.

Originally posted by Zack M
Superman faced a being that destroyed dimensions, too. Hell, he had the POWER of a universe within him. His name was Maaldor.

Faced him he did, but Maaldor was far more powerful than Superman, no contest.

These characters generally operated at these levels, especially with durability. Silver Age Superman's durability was typically on the level of the SHAZAM family and SHAZAM survived an attack that was equal to the Big Bang, IIRC.

Billy also endured a place where no matter was able to survive.

He beats the hell out of wwh. WBh is different altogether. Impossible to say what would take him out but I'd likely favor him.

Originally posted by leonidas
He beats the hell out of wwh. WBh is different altogether. Impossible to say what would take him out but I'd likely favor him.



WWH stomps him into Playdough. There is nothing Superman could do to put him down. In an old encounter, he was planted and Hulk punched him. The thought bubble showed Superman was feeling the blows getting stronger. This is WWH with no reason to hold back. And before you start touting PCS high end cheese feats, make sure you include his low feats because they count just as much.

Originally posted by leonidas
He beats the hell out of wwh. WBh is different altogether. Impossible to say what would take him out but I'd likely favor him.

Originally posted by deathslash
he also had trouble picking up a fat Lois Lane among other hilariously low end feats that even a real life human could do. Pre-crisis characters fluctuated a lot. That said, I do recognize that PC characters were generally more powerful. Also, WBH nearly sunk the Eastern seaboard with his footsteps and IIRC, he destroyed a dimension.


Exactly. What Zack has attempted to do was give Mongul PC Supes feats and say that he would be able to replicate them without any proof. From what was seen in that era Mongul fought a Superman that wasn't written up to his utmost highs. WB Hulk wins this. Unless of course someone has scans of Mongul sneezing away solar systems, and using his urine to put out forest fires.

Originally posted by Stoic
Exactly. What Zack has attempted to do was give Mongul PC Supes feats and say that he would be able to replicate them without any proof. From what was seen in that era Mongul fought a Superman that wasn't written up to his utmost highs. WB Hulk wins this. Unless of course someone has scans of Mongul sneezing away solar systems, and using his urine to put out forest fires.

What the hell? Superman was going all out and was shocked it didn't do anything to Mongul.

Originally posted by Stoic
Exactly. What Zack has attempted to do was give Mongul PC Supes feats and say that he would be able to replicate them without any proof. From what was seen in that era Mongul fought a Superman that wasn't written up to his utmost highs. WB Hulk wins this. Unless of course someone has scans of Mongul sneezing away solar systems, and using his urine to put out forest fires.

Thank you.

Shut up, BAV.

WWH kills him. At least you tried Zack.

Originally posted by Zack M
Shut up, BAV.

FREE GOLGO!

Originally posted by carver9
WWH kills him. At least you tried Zack.

Mongul slays the green giant.

Naah. Hulk fist would curve Mongul face.

Originally posted by carver9
Naah. Hulk fist would curve Mongul face.


I was waiting for you to get in here and get some work!

I've been creeping in here every now and then. Seem like you all were already schooling Zack.

Originally posted by carver9
Naah. Hulk fist would curve Mongul face.

Mongul tears his head off. Don't deny it.

Originally posted by Zack M
Mongul tears his head off. Don't deny it.

What makes you say this?

Superior in every way.

Originally posted by carver9
What makes you say this?

What makes him say any of his ridiculous one liners, superlust.

Stop playing with yourself and get to the BZ!

PC Mongul wins this, and convincely. PC Mongul pretty much owned Superman during PC era, and Mogul is second to PC Darkseid who superman was flat out afraid of.

Originally posted by Zack M
Stop playing with yourself and get to the BZ!

Originally posted by Zack M
What the hell? Superman was going all out and was shocked it didn't do anything to Mongul.

Well you can't see it both ways. Either the solar system that he sneezed away was made of cocaine, which allowed him to sneeze it away, or Mongul was strong enough to replicate the feat even though not being able to do so to the very planet that he planted Superman on. This is why it's so very important for you to stop using PC characters. One second Superman is mightier than Galactus, and the next he's being beaten down by Savage Hulk level characters. There was no continuity in place to stop the drug addled writers of those days from writing just about anything that came to mind. So yeah, you can't just give Mongul Superman's best feats and pretend that he can do them despite never seeing what you're attempting to claim.

Originally posted by Stoic
Well you can't see it both ways. Either the solar system that he sneezed away was made of cocaine, which allowed him to sneeze it away, or Mongul was strong enough to replicate the feat even though not being able to do so to the very planet that he planted Superman on. This is why it's so very important for you to stop using PC characters. One second Superman is mightier than Galactus, and the next he's being beaten down by Savage Hulk level characters. There was no continuity in place to stop the drug addled writers of those days from writing just about anything that came to mind. So yeah, you can't just give Mongul Superman's best feats and pretend that he can do them despite never seeing what you're attempting to claim. thanks stoic. This is what most people don't consider when we talk about PC characters. Their levels of power fluctuated a lot.

Originally posted by Stoic
Well you can't see it both ways. Either the solar system that he sneezed away was made of cocaine, which allowed him to sneeze it away, or Mongul was strong enough to replicate the feat even though not being able to do so to the very planet that he planted Superman on. This is why it's so very important for you to stop using PC characters. One second Superman is mightier than Galactus, and the next he's being beaten down by Savage Hulk level characters. There was no continuity in place to stop the drug addled writers of those days from writing just about anything that came to mind. So yeah, you can't just give Mongul Superman's best feats and pretend that he can do them despite never seeing what you're attempting to claim. I will agree with you here. That's like arguing that Thanos has Galaxy busting durability since he tanked Odins blasts. Or that Colossus has planet busting durability since he tanked some of Gladiator's shots. I can go on forever.

We should always assume a character was operating at average levels in a comic (unless counter evidence is shown) when arguing ABC logic. But what was PC Superman's average strength? Most say it's greater than WWH's strength. Mountain shattering strength? Planet shattering strength? But That's up for debate.

Originally posted by Stoic
Well you can't see it both ways. Either the solar system that he sneezed away was made of cocaine, which allowed him to sneeze it away, or Mongul was strong enough to replicate the feat even though not being able to do so to the very planet that he planted Superman on. This is why it's so very important for you to stop using PC characters. One second Superman is mightier than Galactus, and the next he's being beaten down by Savage Hulk level characters. There was no continuity in place to stop the drug addled writers of those days from writing just about anything that came to mind. So yeah, you can't just give Mongul Superman's best feats and pretend that he can do them despite never seeing what you're attempting to claim.

We use average portrayals here. PC Superman was simply in another class.

Originally posted by deathslash
thanks stoic. This is what most people don't consider when we talk about PC characters. Their levels of power fluctuated a lot.

For every low showing Superman had, he had like a billion good ones. ON AVERAGE, PC Superman was above most high heralds today. And Mongul beat him senseless.

You have to also look at Mongul's average. He lost to Superman ONCE. He also took out the JLA and Legion of Super-Heroes. Resisting every attack they had. Are you saying WW Hulk is above LOSH?

Originally posted by Stoic
Well you can't see it both ways. Either the solar system that he sneezed away was made of cocaine, which allowed him to sneeze it away, or Mongul was strong enough to replicate the feat even though not being able to do so to the very planet that he planted Superman on. This is why it's so very important for you to stop using PC characters. One second Superman is mightier than Galactus, and the next he's being beaten down by Savage Hulk level characters. There was no continuity in place to stop the drug addled writers of those days from writing just about anything that came to mind. So yeah, you can't just give Mongul Superman's best feats and pretend that he can do them despite never seeing what you're attempting to claim.

And that's why they scrapped him and the universe built around him, yet the fanboys can't let go of the past. The romanticized past, that is, a version of the past that never actually existed.

Don't be scared, BAV. The BZ will be over before you know it.

Originally posted by Zack M
For every low showing Superman had, he had like a billion good ones. ON AVERAGE, PC Superman was above most high heralds today. And Mongul beat him senseless.

You have to also look at Mongul's average. He lost to Superman ONCE. He also took out the JLA and Legion of Super-Heroes. Resisting every attack they had. Are you saying WW Hulk is above LOSH?


"Billions of good ones?" Say goodbye to any credibility you hoped to have?

Originally posted by Zack M
Don't be scared, BAV. The BZ will be over before you know it.

Don't call my name in vain. It's just a bad 24 hours for you and the rest of the super freaks.

Stop running. You must be tired.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
"Billions of good ones?" Say goodbye to any credibility you hoped to have?

Do you actually think he was literal, or are you just hoping people will buy to that?

And someone else challenged you to a BZ? Don't be scared homie!!

Son of a *****! BAV is panicking again. Looks like he's going to drop dead of exhaustion. Someone call an ambulance ASAP!

Originally posted by Zack M
Son of a *****! BAV is panicking again. Looks like he's going to drop dead of exhaustion. Someone call an ambulance ASAP!


Looks like yo mama is here to slay all the dragons for you. You should kiss her on the cheek.

Battlezone, Battlezone, Battlezone!!!

Originally posted by Delta1938
Do you actually think he was literal, or are you just hoping people will buy to that?

And someone else challenged you to a BZ? Don't be scared homie!!

You're right, call child protective services.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Battlezone, Battlezone, Battlezone!!!

He's already ran away from 7 of them. Must be a record.

One punch from a serious Hulk is all it would take.

Originally posted by carver9
One punch from a serious Hulk is all it would take.

You do know he fought and beat the Legions right? The same Legion who's one of there biggest threats were the Fatal Five, the same Fatal Five that had Validus in it right?

Originally posted by SquallX
You do know he fought and beat the Legions right? The same Legion who's one of there biggest threats were the Fatal Five, the same Fatal Five that had Validus in it right?

You do realize that Validus punched a crater into a moon, While WB Hulk destroyed planet by indirectly exchanging blows with Betty? Then again, perhaps you among several others under the impression that WB Hulk was a herald level character. It wouldn't surprise me. It's like they said in the Dragon's Dogma game, even in groups, a weakling is still a weakling.

Originally posted by deathslash
he also had trouble picking up a fat Lois Lane among other hilariously low end feats that even a real life human could do. Pre-crisis characters fluctuated a lot. That said, I do recognize that PC characters were generally more powerful. Also, WBH nearly sunk the Eastern seaboard with his footsteps and IIRC, he destroyed a dimension.
What in the actual ****? Superman had a few low showings but he was consistently far more powerful than any Herald level being.

Just see what SBP did to modern heroes.

Originally posted by Stoic
You do realize that Validus punched a crater into a moon, While WB Hulk destroyed planet by indirectly exchanging blows with Betty? Then again, perhaps you among several others under the impression that WB Hulk was a herald level character. It wouldn't surprise me. It's like they said in the Dragon's Dogma game, even in groups, a weakling is still a weakling.
Superboy knocked himself out just punching Validus.

You don't know what you are talking about.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What in the actual ****? Superman had a few low showings but he was consistently far more powerful than any Herald level being.

Just see what SBP did to modern heroes. Teen Titans beat the stuffing out of him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Teen Titans beat the stuffing out of him.

Context genius, use it. You'll come off less idiotic.

Without context I can the Titans also beat Trigon. So I guess the Titans are between trans or sky father.

Originally posted by SquallX
Context genius, use it. You'll come off less idiotic.

Without context I can the Titans also beat Trigon. So I guess the Titans are between trans or sky father. They just pounded and beat him into submission. Hey, you don't have to like it but it did happen.



World breaker Hulk would eat Prime.

Originally posted by quanchi112
They just pounded and beat him into submission. Hey, you don't have to like it but it did happen.



World breaker Hulk would eat Prime.

Still didn't answer my question genius, since the Titans have also beaten the likes of Trigon, a known Skyfather, or the Titans in turn sky fathers?

Originally posted by Stoic
You do realize that Validus punched a crater into a moon, While WB Hulk destroyed planet by indirectly exchanging blows with Betty? Then again, perhaps you among several others under the impression that WB Hulk was a herald level character. It wouldn't surprise me. It's like they said in the Dragon's Dogma game, even in groups, a weakling is still a weakling. You played dragon's dogma too?

Originally posted by abhilegend
What in the actual ****? Superman had a few low showings but he was consistently far more powerful than any Herald level being.

Just see what SBP did to modern heroes.

Yeah, if people want to see how beastly Pre-Crisis characters were, Superboy Prime is a good example.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superboy knocked himself out just punching Validus.

You don't know what you are talking about.

That doesn't mean anything to a guy that has no limits to his strength. Validus would have been destroyed by this version of the Hulk. He was written to be able to ramp at will, and no longer due to rage.

Originally posted by SquallX
Still didn't answer my question genius, since the Titans have also beaten the likes of Trigon, a known Skyfather, or the Titans in turn sky fathers? Context. Did they beat the stuffing out of Trigon like they did with Prime ?

Originally posted by Stoic
That doesn't mean anything to a guy that has no limits to his strength. Validus would have been destroyed by this version of the Hulk. He was written to be able to ramp at will, and no longer due to rage.
That's Superboy too.

Bullshit.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Teen Titans beat the stuffing out of him.

His head is about to explode!

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's Superboy too.

Bullshit.

No sir, not bullshit. Just not the reality you wish to create. Again, PC characters were a ****ing joke and that's why they scrapped the reality. You cannot have a guy sneezing through solar systems be the same guy who struggles to lift a human woman, even if it's for 2 seconds. That's a problem.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
No sir, not bullshit. Just not the reality you wish to create. Again, PC characters were a ****ing joke and that's why they scrapped the reality. You cannot have a guy sneezing through solar systems be the same guy who struggles to lift a human woman, even if it's for 2 seconds. That's a problem.

Yes, PC characters did have stupidly high highs

Yes, PC characters did have stupidly low lows

Yes, modern characters also vary immensely

No, you don't get to discount 50 years of history because you don't like it

Yes, there are forum rules that address how to properly consider highs and a lows

Originally posted by Cogito
Yes, PC characters did have stupidly high highs

Yes, PC characters did have stupidly low lows

Yes, modern characters also vary immensely

No, you don't get to discount 50 years of history because you don't like it

Yes, there are forum rules that address how to properly consider highs and a lows



Don't tell me what I can't do. I'm calling PC out for what it was. Trying pulling your head out of the past's ass.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Don't tell me what I can't do. I'm calling PC out for what it was. Trying pulling your head out of the past's ass.

If you want to disqualify an entire character because you don't like him and/or what he's done, then you should just stick to threads where you do have a valid opinion.

And I say you don't have a valid opinion here because forum rules instruct us on how to argue characters, and you're dismissing that out of hand. Thus, per forum rules, your opinion is invalid.

Originally posted by Cogito
If you want to disqualify an entire character because you don't like him and/or what he's done, then you should just stick to threads where you do have a valid opinion.

And I say you don't have a valid opinion here because forum rules instruct us on how to argue characters, and you're dismissing that out of hand. Thus, per forum rules, your opinion is invalid.

Remember, you're dealing with someone who when he's losing, tends to go into meltdowns and call everybody who disagrees with him "a bunch of nerds" or gets more explicit, and brings up shit about his life that, even if he's not lying to try to make himself look good, is irrelevant and nobody actually gives a ****.

Originally posted by Cogito
If you want to disqualify an entire character because you don't like him and/or what he's done, then you should just stick to threads where you do have a valid opinion.

And I say you don't have a valid opinion here because forum rules instruct us on how to argue characters, and you're dismissing that out of hand. Thus, per forum rules, your opinion is invalid.

Bullshit, my opinion is valid and I won't be adjusting it to make you feel better. The rules have nothing to do with how I've formulated my opinion so there's not need for you to mention them.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Remember, you're dealing with someone who when he's losing, tends to go into meltdowns and call everybody who disagrees with him "a bunch of nerds" or gets more explicit, and brings up shit about his life that, even if he's not lying to try to make himself look good, is irrelevant and nobody actually gives a ****.

Tough titty. You'll get over it.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Tough titty. You'll get over it.

Not surprised you failed to understand.

Originally posted by Cogito
If you want to disqualify an entire character because you don't like him and/or what he's done, then you should just stick to threads where you do have a valid opinion.

And I say you don't have a valid opinion here because forum rules instruct us on how to argue characters, and you're dismissing that out of hand. Thus, per forum rules, your opinion is invalid.

For the posters that may have missed it, both versions of Hulk win. Unlike Mongul, WWH doesn't have ridiculous, explainable, mind numbing lows like the rest of the overhyped PC characters. There is literally no way for him to beat WWH. WBH vaporizes Mongul and shouldn't even be in the thread.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
For the posters that may have missed it, both versions of Hulk win. Unlike Mongul, WWH doesn't have ridiculous, explainable, mind numbing lows like the rest of the overhyped PC characters. There is literally no way for him to beat WWH. WBH vaporizes Mongul and shouldn't even be in the thread.

You do know Mongul Sr also have no low showings right?

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Unlike Mongul, WWH doesn't have ridiculous, explainable, mind numbing lows like the rest of the overhyped PC characters. Oh ok, so because some characters have lows, all are invalid. Got it

Originally posted by SquallX
You do know Mongul Sr also have no low showings right?

No, I don't know that. Some people have mentioned he does. Even so, dominating Superman loses value when Superman was all over the place with feats way above Mongul and feats way, way below herald status. The whole thing is a cluster**** and it's been defunct.

Originally posted by Cogito
Oh ok, so because some characters have lows, all are invalid. Got it

I didn't say that. I'm saying in the absence of a reasonable explanation, the variance in power level is too wide and on the flip side, the character he's pitted against was portrayed consistently. PC was defunct for a reason.

Originally posted by Cogito
Oh ok, so because some characters have lows, all are invalid. Got it

BAV is cherry picking.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
No, I don't know that. Some people have mentioned he does. Even so, dominating Superman loses value when Superman was all over the place with feats way above Mongul and feats way, way below herald status. The whole thing is a cluster**** and it's been defunct. When Mongul dominated Superman, you must assume Superman was at least average. If so then average Superman is far above WWH (not WBH though). So Mongul dominated average PC Superman.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
No, I don't know that. Some people have mentioned he does. Even so, dominating Superman loses value when Superman was all over the place with feats way above Mongul and feats way, way below herald status. The whole thing is a cluster**** and it's been defunct.

Originally posted by h1a8
When Mongul dominated Superman, you must assume Superman was at least average. If so then average Superman is far above WWH (not WBH though). So Mongul dominated average PC Superman.

What do you mean "Superman was at least average?"

Originally posted by Zack M
BAV is cherry picking.

Really? Even though I said PC Superman had high highs and low lows, I'm cherry picking? Back that up. Also, find me some low lows for WWH.

DC poster creates said thread and then freaks out when anyone argues for the marvel character. Lol.

Originally posted by quanchi112
DC poster creates said thread and then freaks out when anyone argues for the marvel character. Lol.

It happens over and over again. Thing is, there is pretty good consensus, but the hardliners won't relent.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Thing is, there is pretty good consensus, but the hardliners won't relent.
That's funny, because I just counted and it appears you're wrong as usual

Originally posted by deathslash
You played dragon's dogma too?

Yep awesome game, just hope the online one comes to the west, and the consoles.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's Superboy too.

Bullshit.

I would like to see where it was stated that PC Superboy, as in the one that was killed ramps up his strength at will. The Hulk during his adventure on Sakaar was trained to meditate and raise his strength at will, and do so instantly. This was seen when he was in the Dark Dimension <-- (Solid Proof). Validus had a hard limit to his strength. Based on feats alone, I believe that WB Hulk would beat the mess out of Validus, he would also be able to take any punishment until he rose well above Val's strength level. How? Well that just happens to be his power set, like flight is one of Superman's. You seem to want to make this about Superboy, and if so that is well within your choice/s, however I'm not talking about Superboy, but instead Mongul who has never shown the power to replicate the damage that WB Hulk was capable of, and actually showed the reader on panel. I count collateral damage even if others choose to turn a blind eye to it because if I were to follow suit, then I guess that it'd be just fine for me to ignore lifting feats as well since they are both within the same vein in terms of strength feats. To solidify my stance, I am going to reiterate the fact that WB Hulk had no hard limit to his strength and was able to punch an entire solar system out. Shared feat? Let's go back and see exactly how a Red Hulk's power worked. They drain power from their opponents and add it to their own. They had a limit to the amount of power that they could drain however because they would suffer from overheating. The reason that Red She Hulk did not have a melt down was due entirely from that Wishing Well's properties which allowed her to continue growing in power as WB Hulk continued to ramp up, so in actuality Betty's extra power was due to WB Hulk ramping up as she was now able to keep pace with him. I have solid proof that this was the case.

For one, The Wishing Well never actually changed how any of the characters powers worked. Two, if we were to go back and see what happened to Rulk when he faced off against both Savage Hulk, and Thor, we see that he actually had a hard limit to the amount of power that he could actually drain. Betty had the exact same power set, which was given to her from the very same source that Rulk got his power from, and they both had the very same problems with their powers in terms of the dangers of draining opponents. All of this was written in stone and has gone down as canon as far as Red Hulk's go.

Validus>>>Hulk. Not even a contest. Validus was punking the Legion left and right.

Stay on topic.

Originally posted by Stoic
Yep awesome game, just hope the online one comes to the west, and the consoles.



I would like to see where it was stated that PC Superboy, as in the one that was killed ramps up his strength at will. The Hulk during his adventure on Sakaar was trained to meditate and raise his strength at will, and do so instantly. This was seen when he was in the Dark Dimension <-- (Solid Proof). Validus had a hard limit to his strength. Based on feats alone, I believe that WB Hulk would beat the mess out of Validus, he would also be able to take any punishment until he rose well above Val's strength level. How? Well that just happens to be his power set, like flight is one of Superman's. You seem to want to make this about Superboy, and if so that is well within your choice/s, however I'm not talking about Superboy, but instead Mongul who has never shown the power to replicate the damage that WB Hulk was capable of, and actually showed the reader on panel. I count collateral damage even if others choose to turn a blind eye to it because if I were to follow suit, then I guess that it'd be just fine for me to ignore lifting feats as well since they are both within the same vein in terms of strength feats. To solidify my stance, I am going to reiterate the fact that WB Hulk had no hard limit to his strength and was able to punch an entire solar system out. Shared feat? Let's go back and see exactly how a Red Hulk's power worked. They drain power from their opponents and add it to their own. They had a limit to the amount of power that they could drain however because they would suffer from overheating. The reason that Red She Hulk did not have a melt down was due entirely from that Wishing Well's properties which allowed her to continue growing in power as WB Hulk continued to ramp up, so in actuality Betty's extra power was due to WB Hulk ramping up as she was now able to keep pace with him. I have solid proof that this was the case.

For one, The Wishing Well never actually changed how any of the characters powers worked. Two, if we were to go back and see what happened to Rulk when he faced off against both Savage Hulk, and Thor, we see that he actually had a hard limit to the amount of power that he could actually drain. Betty had the exact same power set, which was given to her from the very same source that Rulk got his power from, and they both had the very same problems with their powers in terms of the dangers of draining opponents. All of this was written in stone and has gone down as canon as far as Red Hulk's go.
Nice essay.

Just because Hulk has a dynamic factor to his strength doesn't means he can raise his strength at any level. See Zeus. Or Chaos War Abomination. Or David Banner in Chaos War.

Validus starts so above any hulk that one punch will be enough to knock him out.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nice essay.

Just because Hulk has a dynamic factor to his strength doesn't means he can raise his strength at any level. See Zeus. Or Chaos War Abomination. Or David Banner in Chaos War.

Validus starts so above any hulk that one punch will be enough to knock him out.

There was context to the Zeus showing, and the Abomination one as well. The Hulk wasn't in a place that allowed him to go all out. He was on Earth. It wasn't because he couldn't go all out, it was because it wasn't an option for him to go all out. Banner isn't a murderer, which is and was exactly what was written up within the entire series. They tapped on the topic throughout the entire WW Hulk series. He could have come to Earth and one shot killed the planet and everyone incapable of surviving such an assault. It specifically stated that he held back the entire time. As solid proof of this, we then see just how far he was able to go when he was in the Dark Dimension. He could have also destroyed the entire Moon instead of calling Black Bolt out. He wasn't there to fight Zeus, if that were the case he would have crippled all of the Olympians that he ran into on his way to Zeus. This was specifically stated before he ever began climbing up that mountain.

This is Banner not Doomsday. Validus would certainly defeat the Green Scar when he is holding back, but if he let go I don't believe that this would have been the case. WB Hulk was smarter than Validus, able to exceed his strength level, had greater agility, highly resistant to telepathic assault, and able to travel faster. WB Hulk would have scared the living hell out of Mongul, just before destroying him.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Just because Hulk has a dynamic factor to his strength doesn't means he can raise his strength at any level.
This is the part that no Hulk fan ever seems to grasp.

Originally posted by Stoic
There was context to the Zeus showing, and the Abomination one as well. The Hulk wasn't in a place that allowed him to go all out. He was on Earth. It wasn't because he couldn't go all out, it was because it wasn't an option for him to go all out. Banner isn't a murderer, which is and was exactly what was written up within the entire series. They tapped on the topic throughout the entire WW Hulk series. He could have come to Earth and one shot killed the planet and everyone incapable of surviving such an assault. It specifically stated that he held back the entire time. As solid proof of this, we then see just how far he was able to go when he was in the Dark Dimension. He could have also destroyed the entire Moon instead of calling Black Bolt out. He wasn't there to fight Zeus, if that were the case he would have crippled all of the Olympians that he ran into on his way to Zeus. This was specifically stated before he ever began climbing up that mountain.

This is Banner not Doomsday. Validus would certainly defeat the Green Scar when he is holding back, but if he let go I don't believe that this would have been the case. WB Hulk was smarter than Validus, able to exceed his strength level, had greater agility, highly resistant to telepathic assault, and able to travel faster. WB Hulk would have scared the living hell out of Mongul, just before destroying him.
He still had his dynamic factor. What you are doing is applying no limit fallacy at this point.

Hulk isn't beating Mongul much less Validus. Forget about it.

Sorry, we don't go by your fanfiction.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He still had his dynamic factor. What you are doing is applying no limit fallacy at this point.

Hulk isn't beating Mongul much less Validus. Forget about it.

Sorry, we don't go by your fanfiction.

WWH and higher IS beating Mongul and Validus. They simply can't stop him.

Validus would use hulk as a chew toy.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
What do you mean "Superman was at least average?" What ever his average strength and durability levels were, that's what we must assume. I would say that Superman on average is at least mountain shattering and at most 1 earth weight lifting. Either of which is above WWH.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Really? Even though I said PC Superman had high highs and low lows, I'm cherry picking? Back that up. Also, find me some low lows for WWH. when You are using Superman's lows and not considering his highs. That is called cherry picking. Using lows then almost anyone can beat anyone.

Hulk wins.

Originally posted by h1a8
What ever his average strength and durability levels were, that's what we must assume. I would say that Superman on average is at least mountain shattering and at most 1 earth weight lifting. Either of which is above WWH. lol, what? Even as far back as secret wars, hulk could lift a mountain. Let's not even get into how much stronger wwh is than that version.

P.S.
It's also really telling that doom was using the hulks strength to power a machine that held exitar at bay.

Originally posted by deathslash
lol, what? Even as far back as secret wars, hulk could lift a mountain. Let's not even get into how much stronger wwh is than that version.

P.S.
It's also really telling that doom was using the hulks strength to power a machine that held exitar at bay.

I do believe there was a retcon that changed it, but Hulk did not lift that mountain in the original SECRET WARS.

Originally posted by h1a8
when You are using Superman's lows and not considering his highs. That is called cherry picking. Using lows then almost anyone can beat anyone.

What do you mean I "using his lows?" I mentioned his lows in contrast to you guys constantly referring to his highs only! I'm offering the balance needed to actually judge him by his average.

Originally posted by h1a8
What ever his average strength and durability levels were, that's what we must assume. I would say that Superman on average is at least mountain shattering and at most 1 earth weight lifting. Either of which is above WWH.

Dude, a normally enraged Hulk is mountain shattering. Also, this isn't a STRENGTH FEAT contest, it's a proposed battle which all aspect come into play including Hulk's DYNAMIC strength and other worldly healing. There is no way either character is going to pull of a KILL against WWH who will continue to get stronger and heal from any injury. The only matter by which PCS could win is removal. Mongul is dead to rights in a slugfest with someone greater than him.

Lol at superman being mountain level


Just in his byrne era he already punched a massive worm who eat billions of tons of rock, soil and snow into the air. ONE PUNCH lifted into the air billions of tons. That shits all over Hulk's feat.

And this was BYRNE era Superman. Peps please, stop spouting non sense it is just painful to read all this no limits fallacies

LOL, here comes the super cavalry. For ONCE h1 is trying to be reasonable, creating an AVERAGE considering PCS highs and lows and PrecrISIS sends a member to blow shit up.

Oh is mr no limits fallacy whinny cry baby bav. Ok moving along as Bav opinion is worth shit as he has read nothing about superman, let me see who else has admited not to read comics? Oh yes H1 (sorry dude).

Who reads Superman comics? Oh yes Abhi, Delta, Zack and Rao

Who doesn't? Oh yes BAV and H1

I ask Bav how many superman comics have you read? Of all those comics of Supeman how many were pre-crisis?

Oh none? Then stfu! Your uneducated biased opinion is not needed

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Lol at superman being mountain level


Just in his byrne era he already punched a massive worm who eat billions of tons of rock, soil and snow into the air. ONE PUNCH lifted into the air billions of tons. That shits all over Hulk's feat.

And this was BYRNE era Superman. Peps please, stop spouting non sense it is just painful to read all this no limits fallacies

...you're not serious are you?

Originally posted by Delta1938
I do believe there was a retcon that changed it, but Hulk did not lift that mountain in the original SECRET WARS. you sure about that? I remember hulk barely managing to keep it off of them, Reed Richards came up with a plan to get them out, Thor was hitting the mountain as hard as he could and it sounded like tapping to everyone underneath it.

Originally posted by carver9
...you're not serious are you?

Yes I am.

Byrne era Superman did that and it shits all over the secret wars feat of hulk.

Originally posted by deathslash
you sure about that? I remember hulk barely managing to keep it off of them, Reed Richards came up with a plan to get them out, Thor was hitting the mountain as hard as he could and it sounded like tapping to everyone underneath it.

He kept an area of it from crushing them, and he said something about leverage, but the way you wrote it came off he lifted the entire thing in the original comic.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Yes I am.

Byrne era Superman did that and it shits all over the secret wars feat of hulk. wasn't the mountain range that hulk lifted around 150 billion tons?

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
LOL, here comes the super cavalry. For ONCE h1 is trying to be reasonable, creating an AVERAGE considering PCS highs and lows and PrecrISIS sends a member to blow shit up.

The only validity this post has is the topic was about Pre-CRISIS. The feat Rao cited is way better than the SECRET WARS thing and is fairly mundane compared to Superman's other feats of that canon era.

Originally posted by Delta1938
He kept an area of it from crushing them, and he said something about leverage, but the way you wrote it came off he lifted the entire thing in the original comic.

Yes hulk didn't even lift the whole mountain range but a portion of it. It is right on the scan

Originally posted by Delta1938
The only validity this post has is the topic was about Pre-CRISIS. The feat Rao cited is way better than the SECRET WARS thing and is fairly mundane compared to Superman's other feats of that canon era.

Exactly

Originally posted by abhilegend
Chaos War Abomination did exactly that.
Actually he didn't.

Abomination was massively amped and defeated Hulk by slashing his throat. He owned a holding back Hulk no doubt, but he didn't punch Hulk unconscious, just to clarify. No high herald or trans beings are punching out WWH. It just ain't happening.

Originally posted by Delta1938
He kept an area of it from crushing them, and he said something about leverage, but the way you wrote it came off he lifted the entire thing in the original comic.
Yeah, in the original, he didn't lift the whole thing. No lying about that. But he did keep it from crushing them which is surely a very impressive feat, especially for banner's earlier years. In the remake, did he lift the whole thing or just a portion?

Also, didn't hulk punch through time, casually break adamantium, and help move that rogue planet that hyperion later caught?

Who's hyperinflation?

Oh shit! You corrected it

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Who's hyperinflation?

Oh shit! You corrected it shut up, my damn phone still thinks it knows what words are best for me.

Originally posted by deathslash
Yeah, in the original, he didn't lift the whole thing. No lying about that. But he did keep it from crushing them which is surely a very impressive feat, especially for banner's earlier years. In the remake, did he lift the whole thing or just a portion?

He did keep it from crushing them, but "150 billion tons" was on the cover, never actually in the comic. In the comic it does say "beneath billions of tons" but the narration doesn't make it clear how much Hulk is actually supporting. And to my understanding, this version of Hulk was stronger at base than Savage Hulk. In fact, I've seen a few argue that generally this version of Hulk>Savage Hulk without Hulk getting particularly angry.

Originally posted by deathslash
Also, didn't hulk punch through time, casually break adamantium, and help move that rogue planet that hyperion later caught?

Only one I saw was the first, and only scan, so can't really comment.

Originally posted by deathslash
shut up, my damn phone still thinks it knows what words are best for me.

So your phone hates ya? Why I usually don't get on KMC on mine other than checking messages.

Originally posted by deathslash
Yeah, in the original, he didn't lift the whole thing. No lying about that. But he did keep it from crushing them which is surely a very impressive feat, especially for banner's earlier years. In the remake, did he lift the whole thing or just a portion?

Also, didn't hulk punch through time, casually break adamantium, and help move that rogue planet that hyperion later caught?
Yes a calm Hulk did indeed catch and hold up the entire mountain range.
http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Hulk%20Strength/SavageHulkLifting24.jpg.html

Scans are from Hulks respect thread.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Actually he didn't.

Abomination was massively amped and defeated Hulk by slashing his throat. He owned a holding back Hulk no doubt, but he didn't punch Hulk unconscious, just to clarify. No high herald or trans beings are punching out WWH. It just ain't happening.

Thank you, that's what I've been trying to tell precrISIS the entire time. It's not happening.

Originally posted by Delta1938
He did keep it from crushing them, but "150 billion tons" was on the cover, never actually in the comic. In the comic it does say "beneath billions of tons" but the narration doesn't make it clear how much Hulk is actually supporting. And to my understanding, this version of Hulk was stronger at base than Savage Hulk. In fact, I've seen a few argue that generally this version of Hulk>Savage Hulk without Hulk getting particularly angry.



Only one I saw was the first, and only scan, so can't really comment.



So your phone hates ya? Why I usually don't get on KMC on mine other than checking messages.

Trying real hard, aren't you? The point is a far lesser version of the Hulk held up billions of tons. This was in response to a poster who claimed WWH was a mere mountain crusher. That's laughably false, and we can move on. Or you can try to pin down how many billions the feat was.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
I'm sorry, he did that too WWH?

It was the Green Scar incarnation, yes.

CW Abom was strong enough to rip Rick's armor off, though... which was durable enough to withstand adamantium talons from Harpy robots...

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Trying real hard, aren't you? The point is a far lesser version of the Hulk held up billions of tons. This was in response to a poster who claimed WWH was a mere mountain crusher. That's laughably false, and we can move on. Or you can try to pin down how many billions the feat was.

That's laughable compared to PC characters.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He still had his dynamic factor. What you are doing is applying no limit fallacy at this point.

Hulk isn't beating Mongul much less Validus. Forget about it.

Sorry, we don't go by your fanfiction.


You're actually the one that has placed a no limits fallacy. You're basically saying that it would take a character with no limits to defeat Mongul. At this point it's your opinion versus my opinion. The only difference is that I actually have solid proof, whereas you have nothing more than opinion because Mongul was able to own the Legion, and Superman that wasn't actually operating at his utmost best. A fanfic would be me making things up. What I gave you was fact written in a book, and what you did with it was simply refused to accept the fact that Mongul would be crushed against WB Hulk. It actually wouldn't even really last very long TBH. This is based off of the premise that WB Hulk was able to shatter entire solar systems with a punch. Perhaps it's time for people to go back and re0read everything from when the Hulk set foot on Sakaar up until the end of Heart of the Monster. Denial on your part at this point simply means that this is a circular argument that will not be resolved. Thus let's agree to disagree, even though I am 100% correct.

Originally posted by Stoic
You're actually the one that has placed a no limits fallacy. You're basically saying that it would take a character with no limits to defeat Mongul. At this point it's your opinion versus my opinion. The only difference is that I actually have solid proof, whereas you have nothing more than opinion because Mongul was able to own the Legion, and Superman that wasn't actually operating at his utmost best. A fanfic would be me making things up. What I gave you was fact written in a book, and what you did with it was simply refused to accept the fact that Mongul would be crushed against WB Hulk. It actually wouldn't even really last very long TBH. This is based off of the premise that WB Hulk was able to shatter entire solar systems with a punch. Perhaps it's time for people to go back and re0read everything from when the Hulk set foot on Sakaar up until the end of Heart of the Monster. Denial on your part at this point simply means that this is a circular argument that will not be resolved. Thus let's agree to disagree, even though I am 100% correct.

Guys like Mongul, Superman, Validus, etc... start out stronger. They'd kick the crap out of Hulk. Mongul having the hardest time, but he'd probably still win in the end. Looking at his respect thread, he doesn't have any bad showings for that era.

Originally posted by Zack M
1. WW Hulk
2. World Breaker Hulk

http://i64.tinypic.com/mab3o2.jpg

vs

http://i64.tinypic.com/nfgsw0.jpg Originally posted by Zack M
Guys like Mongul, Superman, Validus, etc... start out stronger. They'd kick the crap out of Hulk. Mongul having the hardest time, but he'd probably still win in the end. Looking at his respect thread, he doesn't have any bad showings for that era. You created the thread and foolishly admit you think it's an outright stomp. FFS. You're not a clever guy are you ?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It was the Green Scar incarnation, yes.

CW Abom was strong enough to rip Rick's armor off, though... which was durable enough to withstand adamantium talons from Harpy robots...

But Abom cut Hulk's throat to beat him, correct? He didn't out bench press him. Scans are in order.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You created the thread and foolishly admit you think it's an outright stomp. FFS. You're not a clever guy are you ?

That's all this clown does, day after day after day. It gets him rock hard.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
That's all this clown does, day after day after day. It gets him rock hard. He is so predictable.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Trying real hard, aren't you? The point is a far lesser version of the Hulk held up billions of tons. This was in response to a poster who claimed WWH was a mere mountain crusher. That's laughably false, and we can move on. Or you can try to pin down how many billions the feat was.

Did you even read what this was about, or did you just see me and decide, "I'm gonna disagree with him!!" because DC?

Lets keep going with this charade.

Is not like the PC Superman who face PC Mongul just survived an explosion that destroyed small planetoids for COUNTLESS miles in EVERY direction.

I mean COUNTLESS miles, I'm sure it means shit. PC Superman was meant to be a marvel weakling

JLU Mongul was about to kill Superman with a rock.

Clark got saved... by a woman he keeps dinners warm for vin

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
JLU Mongul was about to kill Superman with a rock.

Clark got saved... by a woman he keeps dinners warm for vin

Oh that's relevant on this thread...

http://gif.co/velo.gif

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Yes I am.

Byrne era Superman did that and it shits all over the secret wars feat of hulk.

Hulk lifted a mountain twice the size of the Appalachian and you are impressed with a billion tons? WTF.

Originally posted by carver9
Hulk lifted a mountain twice the size of the Appalachian and you are impressed with a billion tons? WTF.

Are we talking about the same feat? Secret wars "billions of tons?"

Not that you are worth debating though