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Kyo Durron attacks Corran Horn, Horn protects himself from the attack, Kun appears and channels his own telekinesis through Kyp, Horn states that Kyp's previous attacks were like 'light breezes' compared to Kun's 'full-on gale':



Kun masked the attack on Corran Horn from a dining hall full of Jedi, including Master Luke Skywalker, from just fifteen meters away. Due to this Horn states that Exar Kun was more powerful than he believed could exist, evidently moreso than Kyp Durron or Luke himself, or anybody else Horn had met:

Damn. :3

Oh dearrrrrr.

I give this about three days before the opinion of Kun on the forum goes down even lower. You're truly the greatest asset the cause has ever had, AP.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I give this about three days before the opinion of Kun on the forum goes down even lower. You're truly the greatest asset the cause has ever had, AP.

Of course, one doesn't need logic when one has motives. Great find AP. Vader fans will of course, balk at the idea, but it doesn't make it any less true.

I balked, tbh.

Of course you did. Yet... unofficial scans of Ashoka are totally passable?

Thing is, Ziggy, two years ago? Everyone would agree with you that you need to be a zealous fan of ___ to think lowly of Kun, but much like Caedus, the inevitable wanking lead to us actually looking at these characters for ourselves and it left much to be desired. Even more so with Kun since AP happily brings the quotes in, that do not agree with her, herself. It's a beautiful thing to watch.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Of course you did. Yet... unofficial scans of Ashoka are totally passable?

Slice rambling again, is that all you're good for? It's amusing to see you crawl on your belly, flailing limblessly. At least that's what your attempt at rebuttals resembles.

This is getting good.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Of course you did. Yet... unofficial scans of Ashoka are totally passable? Not sure what you mean friend, I have some official sketches that are pretty legit tho, wanna see them?

Anyway AP when are you going to follow through with your logic? If a severely weakened Kun with no meaningful help from Kyp >> post-DE Luke, how is he only Krayt/Revan level and losing to Darth Sidious in his physical prime?

Originally posted by AncientPower
Slice rambling again, is that all you're good for? It's amusing to see you crawl on your belly, flailing limblessly. At least that's what your attempt at rebuttals resembles.
Yeah, because I'm the one digging up quotes about as old as I am to wank Star Wars characters, which I have a personal investment in.

You just insulted the entire SWVF forum and anybody who ever put effort into creating an RT. Well done, a new low for you. Now if you're done with your obsessive attempts at disregarding anything favoring Exar Kun, you can stop bothering me already. Retirees aren't of interest to me.

Yeah you should be ashamed Fresh.

You're even worse, tbfh.

I asked you a question dear, failing to reply would be rude and a new low for you.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Thing is, Ziggy, two years ago? Everyone would agree with you that you need to be a zealous fan of ___ to think lowly of Kun, but much like Caedus, the inevitable wanking lead to us actually looking at these characters for ourselves and it left much to be desired. Even more so with Kun since AP happily brings the quotes in, that do not agree with her, herself. It's a beautiful thing to watch.

Oh, I can certainly empathise with this.

But if we're speaking candidly Fresh, there are other motives at play here. It's no secret that AP has a track record of gobbling up bait, especially when said bait is dangled right in front of her nose. It's also no surprise that waving the red flag to her indignative horns, can produce some very amusing results. But bringing light to AP's reactive personality and her insistance to prove Kun's glory, produces only a relative conviction, and makes no difference whatever to the objective truth of the matter.

If me 'taking bait' was relevant, then sure, exemplary performance Slice. But in the grand scheme of things Zig, I am establishing a character as a powerhouse ehilst he's being a bitter fool about it.

The genuinely disappointing factor in all of this, is Beni himself, who was once an intellectual and a respected debater, now he's Ant's laughing stock.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Not sure what you mean friend, I have some official sketches that are pretty legit tho, wanna see them?

Anyway AP when are you going to follow through with your logic? If a severely weakened Kun with no meaningful help from Kyp >> post-DE Luke, how is he only Krayt/Revan level and losing to Darth Sidious in his physical prime?

To be honest, AP, I would also like an answer to this. Not in the form of mockery though, I'm genuinely curious about what you'd answer.

Originally posted by AncientPower
If me 'taking bait' was relevant, then sure, exemplary performance Slice. But in the grand scheme of things Zig, I am establishing a character as a powerhouse ehilst he's being a bitter fool about it.

The genuinely disappointing factor in all of this, is Beni himself, who was once an intellectual and a respected debater, now he's Ant's laughing stock. So are you going to answer my question AP or is slinging mud the preferred method of covering up your intellectual shortcomings?

But yeah, if we are rating ourselves in relation to Ant's opinion (God knows why lmao) then you definitely lose that one.

Krayt and Revan are completely irrelevant here, but it certainly can be argued based of this, that Kun is superior or on level to DE Sidious.

My post got lost.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Not sure what you mean friend, I have some official sketches that are pretty legit tho, wanna see them?

Anyway AP when are you going to follow through with your logic? If a severely weakened Kun with no meaningful help from Kyp >> post-DE Luke, how is he only Krayt/Revan level and losing to Darth Sidious in his physical prime?

Originally posted by Petrus
To be honest, AP, I would also like an answer to this. Not in the form of mockery though, I'm genuinely curious about what you'd answer.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Krayt and Revan are completely irrelevant here, but it certainly can be argued based of this, that Kun is superior or on level to DE Sidious. Not asking you friend.

But yeah, it can, so I'm asking why AP isn't making it.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Not asking you friend.

But yeah, it can, so I'm asking why AP isn't making it.

Well, if I may interject here, AP is limiting herself because she's worried about Kun's standing in the eyes of popular opinion. Worried that if she argues such a case in favour of Kun, the masses may turn on her. The problem is, they already do that anyway. So really, it's another case of motives rather than objective truth. But AP has nothing to loose by admitting Kun > Palpatine, and I'd advise to just let loose and go for it.

AP is a coward, yeah.

Alright, a few things to note, here.

1.) Yes, obviously when Kyp is possessed by Exar Kun, his powers skyrocket; this has already been established. Exar is far more proficient in utilizing his power than the barely-trained Kyp, and his spirit is amplifying his powers as well.

2.) Saying that Exar Kun's power is reliant on the temples as a spirit doesn't prove that he's far weaker in Dark Apprentice than he would be normally. It just proves that he's far weaker than he would be with a body and the temples.

3.) The reason Exar Kun can be better than JA Luke but not Sidious is because JA Luke isn't nearly as impressive as Sidious. That's all.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
3.) The reason Exar Kun can be better than JA Luke but not Sidious is because JA Luke isn't nearly as impressive as Sidious. That's all. Nah, not when but half a decade later he rebuilt Vader's fortress. A few years prior swiftly defeated DE Palpatine with Leia's BM. Didn't he also claim around this point to be able to tear apart capital ships?

And altogether, I doubt Corran Horn is really aware of what Luke is fully capable of.

Half a decade could be considered a lot of time for someone like Luke, y'know.

True, though I would argue his growth curve would steadily level out, and even then it's a phenomenal feat that surpasses most of Sheev's.

most.

And it surpasses most of Luke's, too.

He was also crushed by him on Byss. I'm also not convinced that defeating DE Palpatine in a lightsaber duel amounts to anything close to being comparable to Palpatine on the whole, besides.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
He was also crushed by him on Byss. I'm also not convinced that defeating DE Palpatine in a lightsaber duel amounts to anything close to being comparable to Palpatine on the whole, besides.


If Leia Organa Solo had not been there, Palpatine would have killed Luke Skywalker with his powers.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
most.

And it surpasses most of Luke's, too. Right, but then Luke rarely shows his true power, even in that instance there was no evidence of particular strain.

And while it's certainly not definitive proof he's more powerful than Sidious, it more than puts him in his league tbh.Originally posted by NewGuy01
He was also crushed by him on Byss. I'm also not convinced that defeating DE Palpatine in a lightsaber duel amounts to anything close to being comparable to Palpatine on the whole, besides. Not and that point no, but it demonstrates Luke's potential to surpass Palpatine pretty throughly at least in raw power wasn't hugely far off, if Leia's Force harmony is all that's needed to unlock it.

It's also arguable that Luke being straddled between light and dark at that earlier point weakened him somewhat.

EDIT: Double post

@AP: So you're bitching about me only insulting people, then says it's a new low when I insult you, and apparently everyone. That makes sense.
Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Oh, I can certainly empathise with this.

But if we're speaking candidly Fresh, there are other motives at play here. It's no secret that AP has a track record of gobbling up bait, especially when said bait is dangled right in front of her nose. It's also no surprise that waving the red flag to her indignative horns, can produce some very amusing results. But bringing light to AP's reactive personality and her insistance to prove Kun's glory, produces only a relative conviction, and makes no difference whatever to the objective truth of the matter.
For you maybe. A great many people are tired of seeing a new Kun thread every week, and continuing to post more and more of them has done the opposite of help his image. A year or two ago, I'd have said Kun was definitely a Sidious level combatant, but lately I've been forced to look at him with my own eyes, is the point.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
but half a decade.
The gap between ESB and ROTJ is just a year.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Alright, a few things to note, here.

1.) Yes, obviously when Kyp is possessed by Exar Kun, his powers skyrocket; this has already been established. Exar is far more proficient in utilizing his power than the barely-trained Kyp, and his spirit is amplifying his powers as well.

2.) Saying that Exar Kun's power is reliant on the temples as a spirit doesn't prove that he's far weaker in Dark Apprentice than he would be normally. It just proves that he's far weaker than he would be with a body and the temples.

3.) The reason Exar Kun can be better than JA Luke but not Sidious is because JA Luke isn't nearly as impressive as Sidious. That's all.

I don't know why they decided to make it out as if this means Kun > DE Sidious, when that doesn't need to be even remotely true.

Well, that's what sometimes happens when you make threads titled "Kun>Luke confirmed."

As expected, Ap has not the testicular fortitude to take her arguments to the next level.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
@AP: So you're bitching about me only insulting people, then says it's a new low when I insult you, and apparently everyone. That makes sense.

For you maybe. A great many people are tired of seeing a new Kun thread every week, and continuing to post more and more of them has done the opposite of help his image. A year or two ago, I'd have said Kun was definitely a Sidious level combatant, but lately I've been forced to look at him with my own eyes, is the point.

Your first point makes no sense, but I'll leave you to figure out why.

The fact that you can't take debating Kun regularly, but can sit around watching Revan wank, TOR wank, Sidious wank, Vader wank and Tano wank without a problem, suggests that it is a problem with your cognitive dissonance.

You allowing yourself to be so bitter about the matter that you're even going around actively dismissing Kun's new feats/accolades and jpining Beni in Carthaging about it says everything. I won't even start with Trocity, Selenial, Deronn and the others.

Chilax.

Let's just start with the Kun > Sidious movement, from a centered place. No need to restrict yourself.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well, that's what sometimes happens when you make threads titled "Kun>Luke confirmed."

Yes, because I would've thought it obvious that being > JA Luke is an entirely different prospect from being a > GM Luke incarnation. Considering Luke doesn't even approach Sidious way up until TUF feats, I'd have thought that was self-evident.

I've been conversing with Tom Veitch over this particular issue on Facebook, and he is warming himself to the idea of Kun beating DE Palaptine.

I don't feel like my question has been properly addressed tbh.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Chilax.

Let's just start with the Kun > Sidious movement, from a centered place. No need to restrict yourself.

Or we can talk about how your 'movement' is in spite of Kun, not for him. Pretending that your arguments are nothing more or less than anti-Gideon won't do you any favors with me. It is you and Nai with your incessant need to prove _____ > Sidious that has damaged Kun's image in the first place. I've been cleaning up the mess you two began a long time ago.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
I've been conversing with Tom Veitch over this particular issue on Facebook, and he is warming himself to the idea of Kun beating DE Palaptine.

I thought he already believed so.

KJA has said that the most powerful Sith would be decided in a battle between Kun and Palpatine, but that was eons ago.

Dunno why you consider me a Kun hater, tbh, AP. mmm

It's more I have a high opinion of Vader, than a shitty one of Kun.

No, that was Kevin Anderson, I've had some very interesting convos with Tom, not that I think his opinions are relevent at this point. But hey, this is KMC in 2016, even the spoken word of Sam Witwer is a canon source.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Your first point makes no sense, but I'll leave you to figure out why.

Stellar rebuttal as always.

These aren't debates. It's you sharing your porn collection. Don't even pretend it's remotely the same thing.

What the hell are you even going on about? And for the record, you're the only one that's even remotely bitter. Shitting on Kun is a hobby, not a career. The fact that my niggas want to do it with me is irrelevant.

You've made some decidedly anti-Kun statements in the past, but this can be forgiven.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Or we can talk about how your 'movement' is in spite of Kun, not for him. Pretending that your arguments are nothing more or less than anti-Gideon won't do you any favors with me. It is you and Nai with your incessant need to prove _____ > Sidious that has damaged Kun's image in the first place. I've been cleaning up the mess you two began a long time ago.


If you truly belive that either myself or Nai have bought about the majority of 'kun-trolling', then you are simply delusional.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Stellar rebuttal as always.

These aren't debates. It's you sharing your porn collection. Don't even pretend it's remotely the same thing.

What the hell are you even going on about? And for the record, you're the only one that's even remotely bitter. Shitting on Kun is a hobby, not a career. The fact that my niggas want to do it with me is irrelevant.

It makes itseof, why the logical conclusion evades you is for you to find out.

See that? We call that a biased point of view, the mere mention of Kun feats stirs you, as you just admitted, 'shitting on Kun' is your hobby after all. You've got nothing Slice, nothing but laughable attempts at derailing Kun threads with wild abandon.

Come back to me with real arguments or go back to retirement.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
No, that was Kevin Anderson, I've had some very interesting convos with Tom, not that I think his opinions are relevent at this point. But hey, this is KMC in 2016, even the spoken word of Sam Witwer is a canon source.

Kevin's the one that actually didn't say anything of the sort. Vietch was the one who never considered Palpatine the strongest among the Sith.

Lol @ at this salt, AP be lashing out at everyone.

Back on topic though yeah I'm not convincing with this reasoning. Claiming Kun > JA Luke is one thing. But that's straw manning the question, what's being claimed here is that a significantly weakened Kun can essentially render Luke helpless with no significant outside involvement. That would make prime Kun vastly more powerful than Luke, heck even more than that, which not only is Sidious unable to claim, but he himself has no feats that > one-shotting Luke as a low-end showing. Lol.

And that's without even getting to him being a peer to Krayt and Revan lol.

Honestly I doubt FS actually has an issue with Kun. I think he's just a huge chode in general.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
If you truly belive that either myself or Nai have bought about the majority of 'kun-trolling', then you are simply delusional.

Considering you and Nai are the ones who started Kun > Palpatine on CV and turned almost every star wars debater against Kun's image, I'd say you'd have to be delusional or just plain ignorant, to not know what you've done.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
what's being claimed here is that a significantly weakened Kun can essentially render Luke helpless with no significant outside involvement. That would make prime Kun vastly more powerful than Luke, heck even more than that, which not only is Sidious unable to claim, but he himself has no feats that > one-shotting Luke as a low-end showing. Lol.

Kun already oneshot Odan-Urr, the Yoda of his era, before his prime. Is it so hard to believe that once he reached the height of his powers he is unmatched by anyone in the mythos?

Originally posted by Trocity
Kun already oneshot Odan-Urr, the Yoda of his era, before his prime. Is it so hard to believe that once he reached the height of his powers he is unmatched by anyone in the mythos?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lol @ at this salt, AP be lashing out at everyone.

Back on topic though yeah I'm not convincing with this reasoning. Claiming Kun > JA Luke is one thing. But that's straw manning the question, what's being claimed here is that a significantly weakened Kun can essentially render Luke helpless with no significant outside involvement. That would make prime Kun vastly more powerful than Luke, heck even more than that, which not only is Sidious unable to claim, but he himself has no feats that > one-shotting Luke as a low-end showing. Lol.

And that's without even getting to him being a peer to Krayt and Revan lol.

But Ap, we have our reasons to believe Kun is > Sidious, as above ^

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lol @ at this salt, AP me lashing out at everyone.

Back on topic though yeah I'm not convincing with this reasoning. Claiming Kun > JA Luke is one thing. But that's straw manning the question, what's being claimed here is that a significantly weakened Kun can essentially render Luke helpless with no significant outside involvement. That would make prime Kun vastly more powerful than Luke, heck even more than that, which not only is Sidious unable to claim, but he himself has no feats that > one-shotting Luke as a low-end showing. Lol.

Nah, Kyp Durron makes up some of the difference between Spirit Kun and prime Kun. Still Kun should be capable of a very similar feat in life, given how drastically large the difference in power is stated to be between the two on both occasions.

In other words Kun > Spirit Kun + Kyp > Luke, especially including prime Kun's amulet as standard gear. Being vastly more powerful than Luke is something DE Sidious very clearly still is by this point.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Honestly I doubt FS actually has an issue with Kun. I think he's just a huge chode in general.

You're free to make that observation.

Originally posted by Trocity
Kun already oneshot Odan-Urr, the Yoda of his era, before his prime. Is it so hard to believe that once he reached the height of his powers he is unmatched by anyone in the mythos?

Strawmanning, really?

At the end of the day, there's no real reason to put Odan Urr below his PT counterpart.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Honestly I doubt FS actually has an issue with Kun. I think he's just a huge chode in general.
You would be wrong.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Or we can talk about how your 'movement' is in spite of Kun, not for him. Pretending that your arguments are nothing more or less than anti-Gideon won't do you any favors with me. It is you and Nai with your incessant need to prove _____ > Sidious that has damaged Kun's image in the first place. I've been cleaning up the mess you two began a long time ago.

For the record, I still have no idea what trauma I inadvertently inflicted upon Ziggy that drove him to obsess over me such as he does.

Who is Ziggy anyway? Some old relic from years gone by? Nai's disinherited son?

No clue.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
At the end of the day, there's no real reason to put Odan Urr below his PT counterpart.

Besides the fact Yoda is the most powerful light side Force user besides Grand Master Luke? Yeh, nothing at all.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Strawmanning, really?

No, Kun tanked the force sever of the greatest practitioner of the ability, and then merked him with a gesture. Odan-Urr was called the Yoda of his era ( Vodo was called the Mace of his era, whom Kun also beat down; Sidious can't claim the same ), and Yoda was a nigh equal of Sidious. I doubt Kun would oneshot his DE incarnation, but ROTS? Why not?

Originally posted by Trocity
No, Kun tanked the force sever of the greatest practitioner of the ability, and then merked him with a gesture. Odan-Urr was called the Yoda of his era ( Vodo was called the Mace of his era, whom Kun also beat down; Sidious can't claim the same ), and Yoda was a nigh equal of Sidious. I doubt Kun would oneshot his DE incarnation, but ROTS? Why not?

A solid argument Troc, see Ap, look at what you're missing out on.

They aren't as powerful as Yoda and Mace, they like Yoda and Mace are the two most powerful Jedi of their time, the difference is massive and I don't know how you reached the conclusion to say otherwise.

AP is being consumed by her own wank, this pleases me. Originally posted by AncientPower
Nah, Kyp Durron makes up some of the difference between Spirit Kun and prime Kun. Still Kun should be capable of a very similar feat in life, given how drastically large the difference in power is stated to be between the two on both occasions.

In other words Kun > Spirit Kun + Kyp > Luke, especially including prime Kun's amulet as standard gear. Being vastly more powerful than Luke is something DE Sidious very clearly still is by this point. Well let's start with the fundamentals and work from there, how powerful exactly do you believe JA Luke to be?

Not even remotely, I'm exposing fake Kun wank for what it is.

I've said this before, but accolades state DE Luke =/> Vader. More important is how you made the logical inferrence that Kun > Master Luke equates to Kun > DE Sidious.

Yoda can be the most powerful of his time, yes, even the most powerful ever. But how much more powerful is he than Odan urr? Just because Odan is weaker than Yoda, doesn't necessarily make him insignificant. If something is smaller than the greatest, that does not mean it is insignificant. Regardless, how much more powerful is Yoda that his counterpart?

10% 1% 0.1% ?

It's also worth noting that just because Yoda is the most powerful, does not mean that he'd necessarily win a fight against Urr.

Originally posted by Trocity
No, Kun tanked the force sever of the greatest practitioner of the ability, and then merked him with a gesture. Odan-Urr was called the Yoda of his era ( Vodo was called the Mace of his era, whom Kun also beat down; Sidious can't claim the same ), and Yoda was a nigh equal of Sidious. I doubt Kun would oneshot his DE incarnation, but ROTS? Why not?

Ziggy, the question was posed who are you ? Declare yourself before the Senate.

This is genuinely my first account on this site.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
This is genuinely my first account on this site. What is your main board prior to kmc ?

Comicvine.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Not even remotely, I'm exposing fake Kun wank for what it is.

I've said this before, but accolades state DE Luke =/> Vader. More important is how you made the logical inferrence that Kun > Master Luke equates to Kun > DE Sidious. At least it's consistent.

But cool, we are in agreement there. Now with that in mind I'll address your points.Originally posted by AncientPower
Nah, Kyp Durron makes up some of the difference between Spirit Kun and prime Kun. Still Kun should be capable of a very similar feat in life, given how drastically large the difference in power is stated to be between the two on both occasions.Nah? You'll have to be specific dear because its my understanding that Kyp's powers, even when amped by a dark side nexus, were "feeble" in comparison to Kun's, "light breezes" in comparison to a "full on gale". Well, rather that's what you've said more times than I can count. So how does that make Kyp's involvement anything more than insignificant?Yeah, by your understanding Kun is drastically more powerful than he was as a spirit, in which he one-shot Luke with little difficulty. So I guess Prime Kun would dispatch Luke as an afterthought? Yeah something like that.

And by your understanding DE Luke => Vader and considering that 5-6 years after that he's rebuilding Vader's fortress (and cloaking a 1.5km warship, it would seem) without much strain, capabilities well beyond Vader, we should assume in the year between his encounter with DE Palpatine and Kun, he experienced significant growth. Enough, most likely, to put him around Revan/Krayt level.

So I'll ask again how this is consistent with your opinion that:

1. RotS, RotJ and DE Sidious (shall we throw in TPM? I don't know) > Kun, despite there being no proof he could one-shot Luke as a low-end showing, if even at all.

2. Kun is a peer to Krayt and Revan, despite JA Luke approaching, if not being on that level, whom Kun one-shot in a low-end showing.

As for Sidious being "vastly more powerful" than Luke? Who all evidence suggests sits somewhere between Vader and Krayt? Another contradiction from you it would seem, as instead you've insisted repeatedly that:Originally posted by AncientPower
Revan, Yoda, Sidious, Luke, Krayt, Valkorion, Kun, Caedus, Plagueis, Lord Nyax, Talzin, C'boath, Darish Vol, Taalon, Muur, Ragnos, Nadd and Vader are far closer together in power than many would like to believe. https://media.giphy.com/media/NORFfJzhC6iPe/giphy.gif

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yeah, by your understanding Kun is drastically more powerful than he was as a spirit, in which he one-shot Luke with little difficulty. So I guess Prime Kun would dispatch Luke as an afterthought? Yeah something like that.
Luke Skywalker was not lacking in raw power. He was acknowledged as the strongest individual to visit Yavin IV after a long break. However, he was not prepared for Sith Sorcery of Exar Kun.

Luke was trained to challenge a different kind of foe. Therefore, when they finally met, Kun overwhelmed Luke by virtue of Sith Sorcery.

I have recently procured some G-level canon information, that indicates why Sidious may not be the strongest sith on the battlefield, but rather that he's the 'strongest' in a caesarean sense.

I'm sure you have.

Ah, ever the assumptive one.

Kyp's powers are the minority in the axis of power between himself and Exar Kun, that is not to say that his lresence is insignificant. Only that his presence is incapable of filling the gap in power that Exar Kun suffered in that state.

Yes he would be signifcantly more powerful in his living incarnation, however the circumstances of the fight must be observed. Luke faced Kyp Durron and Exar Kun simultaneously in the fight, a direct confrontation would obviously be decidedly more accurate.

Sidious floored Luke and could've easily defeated him again if not for his arrogance. Luke gave in to Sidious because he knew they jever had a chabce of defeating him, he was far too powerful.

You're creating a contradiction in logic where there is none, of course DE Sidious can casually defeat Luke in a Force exchange. Actually reading Dark Empire might help on that front.

As for your last but certainly not least idiotic assumption, FOTJ Luke is far more powerful than he ever was in his early years.

The over-arching theme you fail to grasp, is that in Star Wars, when two major powerhouses have a confrontation, there is always a decent fight at the very least. Actual 'stomps' are a rarity not a normity, as was my point.

But let us drop this fascade, shall we? You're hounding my threads to find some precious, non-existent contradiction amongst my statements. You can cease your ludicrous charade of actually being interested in objective debate. Your obsession with seeing me somehow degraded infront of the masses is quaint.

Originally posted by AncientPower

Kyp's powers are the minority in the axis of power between himself and Exar Kun, that is not to say that his lresence is insignificant. Only that his presence is incapable of filling the gap in power that Exar Kun suffered in that state.

Agreed.



Agreed.



Correction - Sidious defeated Luke in a contest of duelling. If one is also to agree that the darkside environment of Byss was passively 'amping' Sidious, and in coordinance, draining Luke, than we're introduced to one circumstance or one 'spanner' thrown in the assumptive opinion that says Luke is far below Sidious.




In the Dark Empire comics, we see these exchanges of Force power between the two. On Byss' cloning facility:

1. Luke Force pushing Palpatine into a wall
2. Sidious presenting superior physical strength in a duel
3. Sidious mind-controlling Luke

On the Eclipse:

1. Palaptine briefly knocking back Luke with his lightning
2. Luke resisting a mind control feint
3. Luke winning a duel while actively boosted by Leia
4. The twins severing Palaptine's force connection

If there is some massive disparity between the two, then you're not making it clear.



Agreed. But Kun should still be able to compete in his corporeal body.




This is correct. But Beni knows he can not refute the feat with objective truth, that would be to prove that Kun was more powerful in flesh than in spirit. He can not do that anymore, so naturally, he resorts to attacking your opinions by finding them inconsistent with the feat it's self. Beni is not smart enough to know that this the lowest form of debating. But you should also be smart enough to respond with this:

"Beni if you think that this makes Kun > Sidious, then that is your opinion and I'm fine with that, but I couldn't possibly comment on the matter "

End of thread.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
This is correct. But Beni knows he can not refute the feat with objective truth, that would be to prove that Kun was more powerful in flesh than in spirit. He can not do that anymore, so naturally, he resorts to attacking your opinions by finding them inconsistent with the feat it's self. Beni is not smart enough to know that this the lowest form of debating. But you should also be smart enough to respond with this:

"Beni if you think that this makes Kun > Sidious, then that is your opinion and I'm fine with that, but I couldn't possibly comment on the matter "

End of thread. You read my mind.

Oh no you didn't.

I've explained my reasoning on Kun's spirit feats a dozen times (and the last time I did AP rage quit the debate, but then, that was before your time) and could do so again here, but its a copy+paste job that's grown tedious, whereas this is much more fun.

Regardless, reductio ad absurdum is a perfectly valid form of argument, thanks. Your distress is noted though.

I rage quit? Your entire argument is based on actively misinterpreting statements and relying on a sole statement that observes Kun growing 'very' powerful on Kyp's hate. Because we all know how quantifiable 'very' is.

If that's your idea of an intellectual victory then you really have lost it.

Yeah, you quit the debate in rage. Sorry.

And while you may think that my idea of an intellectual victory, I couldn't possibly comment.

I didn't quit the debate in rage, how farcical, I pointed out how you had no argument besides what amounted to a debating edition of 'I know you are, but what am I?' dependent on flawed appeals to interpretation. Seeing how futile it was to continue debating somebody who debates for the sole purpose of spite regardless of a lack of legs to stand on, I stopped wasting time.

You have a very funny way of misremembering things.

Originally posted by AncientPower
But let us drop this fascade, shall we? You're hounding my threads to find some precious, non-existent contradiction amongst my statements. You can cease your ludicrous charade of actually being interested in objective debate. Your obsession with seeing me somehow degraded infront of the masses is quaint. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/2570579909.png

What's wrong AP, getting a little hot under the collar? Well at least that's what I gather from you glossing over several of my points. mmm

But yeah, as an upstanding member of this community it's my duty to ferret out double standards wherever I see them. Don't hate. Originally posted by AncientPower
Kyp's powers are the minority in the axis of power between himself and Exar Kun, that is not to say that his lresence is insignificant. Only that his presence is incapable of filling the gap in power that Exar Kun suffered in that state.So essentially he's as relevant as is convenient for you? Right. Sorry though it doesn't work like that; if Kyp's power is to be interpreted as feeble in comparison to Kun then yeah, it's insignificant (just as a "light breeze" is insignificant in comparison to a "full-on-gale". If it were at all significant then it wouldn't be "feeble" in comparison lol.Well spotted, now I'll wait patiently for you to realise the extent of said circumstances. Sidious knocking Luke on his ass would certainly appear to demonstrate superiority, but it hardly proves he could one-shot Luke into a coma. In fact even if we were to assume that Sidious could casually defeat Luke in a Force exchange, there would remain a significant disparity between that and what Kun did to Luke.

As far as this goes to prove that Sidious could do the same to an even stronger Luke? Even more tenuous. And while significantly weakened? ****ing laughable. The best he managed one-shot in such a state was Leia.

And your lack of any attempt to address Kun's supposed parity with Revan and Krayt is rather telling, at best you've made a weak case for DE Sidious being Kun's peer. Yeah, I'm afraid you're going to have to do a lot better than that.Considering I never mentioned FOTJ once, I'm failing to see the relevance. Thanks for stating the obvious though.Aside from the fact that that rather blatantly contradicts your above assertion that DE Sidious would "casually" defeat Luke, how painfully revisionist of you. But yes, I'm sure you were actually putting forward the notion that Sidious wouldn't one-shot Krayt to be an "unorthodox opinion".

Originally posted by AncientPower
I didn't quit the debate in rage, how farcical, I pointed out how you had no argument besides what amounted to a debating edition of 'I know you are, but what am I?' dependent on flawed appeals to interpretation. Seeing how futile it was to continue debating somebody who debates for the sole purpose of spite regardless of a lack of legs to stand on, I stopped wasting time.

You have a very funny way of misremembering things. I don't know friend, for someone who didn't want to waste any more of their time, your post was rather long and angry.

But I'm glad we got to do this again.

Don't pretend you're some local police for debating standards, you've been obsessed with me for years. Was being my ever loyal pawn on swtor so traumatic for you, little Beni boy?

No he's feeble in the sense that Exar Kun's attempt was greatly superior. He's not so to the degree that he's absolutely insignificant. Why the hell would he use them if they were beyond his need entirely? Yet again equating things with no basis.

I know what the circumstances are, everybody here does, your condescending smilies makes your points no less baseless. Because again you're making assumptions about my statements with no viable basis.

He hit him with a single bolt, was clearly not trying at all to put him down for good and was absolutely confident in his ability to control Luke at the time. Confidence which was not misplaced.

Please go ahead and make the argument that Luke is withstanding a full on barrage from Sidious. I don't need to make any argument for Sidious, ny arguments are for Kun based on my personal ranking. But if you think Kun > Sidious, please go and debate that hilarity.

You're failing to see how it is relevant when you tried to point out a contradiction in my statements by using a list in which I was pointing out prime Luke Skywalker? How supremely convenient of you.

DE Sidious would floor DE/JA Luke, but certainly not his later incarnations.

Beni, what you are attempting is obvious, painfully so.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I don't know friend, for someone who didn't want to waste any more of their time, your post was rather long and angry.

But I'm glad we got to do this again.

I certainly hope you don't translate this to progress, because your counter arguments have been tarpitted for months now. I'm glad I got to see your idea of an actual debate though.

Here's a hint: next time you attempt to point out double standards, it is best you actually try and understand an argument before you comment on it.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Don't pretend your some local police for debating standards, you've been obsessed with me for years. Was being my ever loyal pawn on swtor so traumatic for you, little Beni boy?https://media.giphy.com/media/p0RDMJGgMXF96/giphy.gifQuite lol, it wasn't making a holistic comparison, just in regards to his attempt at a sensory feat. Funny considering you generally prefer to ignore them. mmmIt was lol, but let's just ignore that. Why when I never claimed as much? Even if Luke were to manage as much as Revan did against Vitiate, that would still be better than his performance against Kun.

Nice attempt at evasion though, but nah I think this contradiction in logical warrants an explanation. And in the absence of one merely demonstrates how ludicrous your assessment really is.As well as Vader, Revan and Krayt. Gosh. Next time I'll make sure to spell it out for you.I suppose that's a concession he wouldn't have a hope and prayer in a weakened condition then. mmmTo see you flounder and crumble, yeah, its going pretty well so far.

Butthurt is unreal in this *****.

We need more hatred for this forum to rise up to uncharted levels.

Did you just state Sidious in Dark Empire wasn't weakened? Christ almighty.