Robert Reynolds

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Sin I AM
Sentry.

Talk about an interesting/confusing character. Ever since his first appearance here's a guy who seems to be a walking plot device. From casually destroying Owend to getting own by Hercules his power levels seem to vary widely. So on an attempt to hash this guy out I want to try and merge him. See if based off ALL his showings can we get a clear depiction of where he sits.

This is Regular Sentry, Sentry/Void and Deat Seed all amalgamated into one.


What tier is he in ON AVERAGE based on FEATS? Not writer/editor/fanfic/handbook statements...stuff that actually happened in comics.

And how well does he do against

Nu Darkseid
Classic Thanos
Classic Fate & Classic Strange with 30 min prep.
Classic Odon

ghostman
sentry is omniversal you sodomite, havent you heard? he stomps them all.

but seriously i cant see him beating any of these guys on average.

RealityWarper
There is no "average" Sentry.

He has only "bad showings" when he is weakened or depowered.

"Id"
High End trans level.

RealityWarper
Wrong.

There is no limits to his power-level.

He is more powerful than Molecule Man and Beyonder.

http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11129/111292726/5320703-sentrymorepowerfulthanmoleculemanandbeyonder.jpg

Sin I AM
Originally posted by RealityWarper
There is no "average" Sentry.

He has only "bad showings" when he is weakened or depowered.

Averages are based off a percentage of his fights in canon. Everyone has an average even if they had only 1 fight

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Averages are based off a percentage of his fights in canon. Everyone has an average even if they had only 1 fight

There is no average:

Or he is somewhat depowered / weakened by his mental state in the stories

Or he is stable.

His mental weaknesses disappeared so his average is definitely being limitless.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by RealityWarper
There is no average:

Or he is somewhat depowered / weakened by his mental state in the stories

Or he is stable.

His mental weaknesses disappeared so his average is definitely being limitless.

Reread the op. I said give an average based off all his showings and explicitly stated NOT to use writer/editor/handbook statements. If you don't like the thread u can always create a Sentry vs Lucifer Morningstar thread and see where that gets u

RealityWarper
The op didn't determine the power of the character.

The writers / editors / handbook are here to give the accurate description.

All the rest is at best a fan fiction.

And on topic, Lucifer Morningstar is fodder to the Sentry.

Cogito
Yeah...I'm gonna need to politely ask you to GTFO

Sin I AM
Originally posted by RealityWarper
The op didn't determine the power of the character.

The writers / editors / handbook are here to give the accurate description.

All the rest is at best a fan fiction.

And on topic, Lucifer Morningstar is fodder to the Sentry.

Are you done?

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Are you done?

You wanted an opinion on your thread.

I provided one, which is the one coming from Marvel.

Surtur
Can't speak on Nu Darkseid, but I think PC Darkseid would defeat him.

For Classic Thanos I don't know, he is very durable and yet the kind of energy Sentry and Genis output from the microverse would suggest to me he should be able to harm him.

I feel Classic Fate and Classic Strange together even without prep would present significant problems to Sentry, giving them prep just makes it worse.

Not sure who Odon is, I assume you mean Odin in which case I feel since he destroys galaxies as a mere side effect to his battles he is above Sentry.

Pillow Biter
I'm going to agree that the OP doesn't make much sense here. Averaging the Sentry won't yield anything meaningful, really.

Mostly because it's really hard to know exactly which take a writer had on him. Many were on board with him being a cosmic force who had trouble accessing his full powers reliably. Others just used him as a blonde Superman. Some were in the middle--like in WWH where it seems like the Sentry's full power is awesome, but well below levels he's shown elsewhere.

OF course even uber Sentry has limits--as has been said, there are levels of Omnipotence.

Surtur
Did they even ever truly explain what Sentry is? I remember we had a variety of explanations and I even think they implied he was some kind of angel of death or something?

abhilegend
Didn't you know? He was Beyonder as proved by Jenkins. On his Twitter.

StiltmanFTW
Bendis had tons of ideas, all just to confuse his readers as usual laughing out loud

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by abhilegend
Didn't you know? He was Beyonder as proved by Jenkins. On his Twitter.

Lol.

What Jenkins wanted him to be no longer matters.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Pillow Biter
I'm going to agree that the OP doesn't make much sense here. Averaging the Sentry won't yield anything meaningful, really.

Mostly because it's really hard to know exactly which take a writer had on him. Many were on board with him being a cosmic force who had trouble accessing his full powers reliably. Others just used him as a blonde Superman. Some were in the middle--like in WWH where it seems like the Sentry's full power is awesome, but well below levels he's shown elsewhere.

OF course even uber Sentry has limits--as has been said, there are levels of Omnipotence.

What's so hard to understand? The op is simple. On average where would you place him. Based on feats...where does he rank? Since when is hyperbole a good substitute for actual on panel feats.

quanchi112
Originally posted by abhilegend
Didn't you know? He was Beyonder as proved by Jenkins. On his Twitter. Such Sentry envy.

Pillow Biter
Okay. I was just simplifying. Averaging is pretty much always good. But you have to average apple to apple.
If you want his high-end, you have to average all the "full power" portrayals. You can't throw in a defeat as an example of his high-end limits if you don't know whether the writer in question really meant this as his high-end, or still had him holding a lot of his power back. And with Sentry, that's pretty hard to discern.
I'd say that in some ways, World War Hulk was his low point. Why? Because it really looked like this was the full extent of Sentry's power, and as awesome as it was, he was still basically the Hulk's equal.
High-end feats include supposedly beating Galactus, outdoing the Molecule Man, changing the memories of everyone on Earth, etc.

tkitna
Originally posted by Pillow Biter

I'd say that in some ways, World War Hulk was his low point.

I always thought so too.

tkitna
Originally posted by RealityWarper

http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11129/111292726/5320703-sentrymorepowerfulthanmoleculemanandbeyonder.jpg

This should be an automatic ban anytime its used from here on out. I mean, the kid posts this same crap in practically every thread.

iceman24567
Originally posted by tkitna
This should be an automatic ban anytime its used from here on out. I mean, the kid posts this same crap in practically every thread. Agreed thumb up

RealityWarper
Originally posted by quanchi112
Such Sentry envy.

Clearly.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by tkitna
This should be an automatic ban anytime its used from here on out. I mean, the kid posts this same crap in practically every thread.

I began to read comic books when you wasn't even a project.

One_Angry_Scot
Originally posted by RealityWarper
I began to read comic books when you wasn't even a project.

He's older than you. And even if you had read comics before he was born why would that matter. You probably read comics before I was born but what does that matter?

iceman24567
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
He's older than you. And even if you had read comics before he was born why would that matter. You probably read comics before I was born but what does that matter? Let it go bro that guy is immature its better we just ignore his shenanigans

One_Angry_Scot
Originally posted by iceman24567
Let it go bro that guy is immature its better we just ignore his shenanigans

True. thumb up

-Pr-
Guys, quotes from writers are general only accepted if you can show that the comic supports such a thing. Using a quote as evidence alone isn't going to pass muster.

Also, kindly stop taking personal jabs at each other. There are other places for that kind of thing.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
He's older than you. And even if you had read comics before he was born why would that matter. You probably read comics before I was born but what does that matter?

He's calling me a kid.

That's a bit fallacious.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by -Pr-
Guys, quotes from writers are general only accepted if you can show that the comic supports such a thing. Using a quote as evidence alone isn't going to pass muster.


I already posted everything that is needed in the other thread.



Agreed.

One_Angry_Scot
Originally posted by RealityWarper
He's calling me a kid.

That's a bit fallacious.

Someone older will address someone they perceive as younger like that sometimes. It's not always meant as an insult. I don't think tkitna believes you are 10 years old or something.

But anyways I don't want to get involved any further. Don't wanna add more oxygen to the fire.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
Someone older will address someone they perceive as younger like that. It's not always meant as an insult. I don't think tkitna believes you are 10 years old or something.

But anyways I don't want to get involved any further. Don't wanna add more oxygen to the fire.

Yeah sure.

I like being called a kid by a bunch of people incapable to get the evidence in front of their eyes.

How old is he by the way ?

iceman24567
Twitter isn't evidence nice try though thumb down

-Pr-
So the whole "stop making shit personal" thing just went over people's heads, did it?

Badabing
Pr, would you like to send me a list of you needs banned?

-Pr-
Might as well; they aren't going to ban themselves.

Enzeru
Originally posted by Sin I AM

What tier is he in ON AVERAGE based on FEATS? Not writer/editor/fanfic/handbook statements...stuff that actually happened in comics.

I'll answer that question for you, but I hope you don't mind reading a lot:

On battle boards we always go with the most recent version of a character. And when it comes to the Sentry many readers make the mistake of not doing so. They look at stuff that has happened in the past, even though it doesn't matter anymore.
The Sentry had changed after his encounter with the Molecule Man. During that fight he went: "I have this" and then he did the impossible. He beat the Molecule Man at his own game. And that Molecule Man ripped him apart before. But Sentry reconstructed himself and defeated him. At that moment the Sentry had become truly invincible.

The weakest the Sentry has ever been in the comics was during his fight against World War Hulk. Let's just assume that Incredible Hulk is a high herald strength and durability wise, when he is angry. And during World War Hulk he was far more angry. Is it crazy to assume that WW Hulk was a low trans, or maybe even a mid trans level character at that point? At least strength and durability wise.
And the Sentry at his absolutely lowest in terms of power fought that Hulk to a standstill. No one was holding back during that encounter. All of it is well documented.

So you have Sentry at his weakest fighting off a low to mid trans level character. And that was prior to his "power upgrade", which he received during the Molecule Man fight, where he had figured it all out.

Speaking of the Molecule Man fight. During that fight the Sentry was not as unstable as he was during the WW Hulk arc. And with the Sentry he becomes overall more powerful the more mentally stable he is. It's like with Superman being near Kryptonite. The closer he is, the weaker he becomes.
So Sentry during the Dark Avengers storyline was above a low to mid trans level character. And the Molecule Man ripped someone like that apart like he was nothing. The Molecule Man also transformed the Adamantium in Bullseyes spine into water. So Molecule Man as well was easily above a low to mid trans level character at that point. Since they are usually not capable of destroying +high herald level opponents like that. Thanos has molecule manipulation to an extent and he wouldn't be able to destroy Thor on a molecular level. The Dark Avengers Molecule Man would have done that with a thought.
(And all of that even if we assume that Sentry's durability is below the one of trans level characters. His durability was always kinda questionable and he made a lot of it up with his healing factor. But it still easily at high herald levels, if not above.)

I believe, that a mentally stable Sentry is the absolutely most powerful high trans level character in comics. There is no one, who comes even close to him in that tier. Not even Thanos.
Sentry has the upper hand, because he is so ridiculously versatile. He has all those hax abilities and is immortal. If you want to beat the Sentry, then you need to have a ton of hax abilities as well. And that above the Sentry's level.

Now the question would be if the Sentry approaches skyfather levels. I don't think that he does, judging by the feats alone. Skyfathers have done more impressive stuff than the Sentry has.
Odin alone has not only made the entire Earth civilization forget something, but he has also transported them all from one planet to another. With his magic alone. And on top of that Odin's Asgardian Magic is probably not far below the power of the Norn Stones, which have caused the Sentry harm in the past. We also had Asgardian Magic enchanting an axe to a point, where it was capable of killing Celestials. If Odin wants Sentry dead, Sentry would die. So I don't think that Sentry approaches high skyfather levels. However I do think that he would put up a better fight than Thanos did against Odin.

Originally posted by Sin I AM

And how well does he do against

Nu Darkseid
Classic Thanos
Classic Fate & Classic Strange with 30 min prep.
Classic Odin

New 52 Darkseid:
I haven't read the Darkseid War storyline, but from the early New 52 comics with Darkseid in them, Darkseid has done nothing to a point, where I could see him beat the Sentry. I think that the post Dark Avengers Sentry would have destroyed the entire Justice League, which Darkseid has faced far quicker.

Classic Thanos:
Who is classic Thanos? The one prior to Death upgrades? If so, why would you put a weaker Thanos against Sentry? Do you expect the more recent versions of Thanos to beat the Sentry?
I personally don't. I think that Sentry has enough physical strength and durability to go toe to toe with Thanos, but also that he has more hax abilities than Thanos. Sentry has more potent and destructive molecule manipulation, a stronger healing / immortality factor and he has a far higher energy output.
In the Incursion story Thanos and his Black Order crew were going from one Earth to another and using bombs from Reed Richards (I think) to destroy those Earths. A reader had asked Tom Brevoort if Thanos couldn't simply destroy the Earths under his own power and Brevoort told him to read the comic. Thanos can't destroy the Earth under his own power. He simply can't. Thanos fans on this board don't seem to like that, but that's the harsh reality. Sentry on the other hand has the needed, destructive energy output to destroy it.

Classic Fate & Classic Strange:
You can look at it both ways... Classic Fate and Classic Strange (although Classic Strange is still the current Strange, since there was never a retcon or something) had insane showings. They were fighting off truly cosmic threats. Given enough time to prepare for those.
But at the same time Sentry's story has him being an old character, who has always been around. Also as the Void. And Strange was never able to do something against the Void. Strange tried to use black magic on Sentry, but Sentry broke free and knocked Strange out, with Strange stating, that Sentry was always too powerful for that kind of magic.
So basically Classic / Current Strange was never capable of beating the Sentry / the Void, no matter how much time he had to prepare.

Classic Odin:
As you can probably assume it from my paragraph above... I think that Odin would beat the Sentry. Odin has supposedly affected galaxies in his fight. Sentry hasn't. Sentry's energies went far beyond planetary at the highest from what we've seen, but galaxies are still whole another level. Odin has the needed abilities to stop the Sentry, like stopping time, all the gimmicks with the magic and so on.

But here is the deal and ultimately that, what makes the Sentry so confusing... If it ever came down to a fight between Odin and Sentry, I would expect Odin to win. But if Sentry ended up winning the fight I wouldn't be surprised. If Sentry fought Galactus, I would expect Galactus to win. But if Sentry won, I wouldn't be surprised either.
Sentry has that ridiculous X-Factor, where no one knows what he truly is. Dark Avengers Molecule Man was still the Molecule Man from the old days and even if he was depowered, he still said, that he had never experienced something like Sentry's molecules. And Molecule Man has experienced multiverses. Yet nothing like the Sentry. If that's not crazy, then I don't know either.

StiltmanFTW

tkitna
Originally posted by RealityWarper

How old is he by the way ?

I'm 46. How old are you kid?

Rao Kal El
He's probably like 15 (he acts like it)

Anyhow who pays attention to Reality Warper?

He is even more extreme than Enzeru when it comes to the Sentry.

Diesldude
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Wrong.

There is no limits to his power-level.

He is more powerful than Molecule Man and Beyonder.

http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11129/111292726/5320703-sentrymorepowerfulthanmoleculemanandbeyonder.jpg

Loki is a god (lowercase g) too right?

wuleecat
Originally posted by Enzeru
I'll answer that question for you, but I hope you don't mind reading a lot:

On battle boards we always go with the most recent version of a character. And when it comes to the Sentry many readers make the mistake of not doing so. They look at stuff that has happened in the past, even though it doesn't matter anymore.
The Sentry had changed after his encounter with the Molecule Man. During that fight he went: "I have this" and then he did the impossible. He beat the Molecule Man at his own game. And that Molecule Man ripped him apart before. But Sentry reconstructed himself and defeated him. At that moment the Sentry had become truly invincible.

The weakest the Sentry has ever been in the comics was during his fight against World War Hulk. Let's just assume that Incredible Hulk is a high herald strength and durability wise, when he is angry. And during World War Hulk he was far more angry. Is it crazy to assume that WW Hulk was a low trans, or maybe even a mid trans level character at that point? At least strength and durability wise.
And the Sentry at his absolutely lowest in terms of power fought that Hulk to a standstill. No one was holding back during that encounter. All of it is well documented.

So you have Sentry at his weakest fighting off a low to mid trans level character. And that was prior to his "power upgrade", which he received during the Molecule Man fight, where he had figured it all out.

Speaking of the Molecule Man fight. During that fight the Sentry was not as unstable as he was during the WW Hulk arc. And with the Sentry he becomes overall more powerful the more mentally stable he is. It's like with Superman being near Kryptonite. The closer he is, the weaker he becomes.
So Sentry during the Dark Avengers storyline was above a low to mid trans level character. And the Molecule Man ripped someone like that apart like he was nothing. The Molecule Man also transformed the Adamantium in Bullseyes spine into water. So Molecule Man as well was easily above a low to mid trans level character at that point. Since they are usually not capable of destroying +high herald level opponents like that. Thanos has molecule manipulation to an extent and he wouldn't be able to destroy Thor on a molecular level. The Dark Avengers Molecule Man would have done that with a thought.
(And all of that even if we assume that Sentry's durability is below the one of trans level characters. His durability was always kinda questionable and he made a lot of it up with his healing factor. But it still easily at high herald levels, if not above.)

I believe, that a mentally stable Sentry is the absolutely most powerful high trans level character in comics. There is no one, who comes even close to him in that tier. Not even Thanos.
Sentry has the upper hand, because he is so ridiculously versatile. He has all those hax abilities and is immortal. If you want to beat the Sentry, then you need to have a ton of hax abilities as well. And that above the Sentry's level.

Now the question would be if the Sentry approaches skyfather levels. I don't think that he does, judging by the feats alone. Skyfathers have done more impressive stuff than the Sentry has.
Odin alone has not only made the entire Earth civilization forget something, but he has also transported them all from one planet to another. With his magic alone. And on top of that Odin's Asgardian Magic is probably not far below the power of the Norn Stones, which have caused the Sentry harm in the past. We also had Asgardian Magic enchanting an axe to a point, where it was capable of killing Celestials. If Odin wants Sentry dead, Sentry would die. So I don't think that Sentry approaches high skyfather levels. However I do think that he would put up a better fight than Thanos did against Odin.



New 52 Darkseid:
I haven't read the Darkseid War storyline, but from the early New 52 comics with Darkseid in them, Darkseid has done nothing to a point, where I could see him beat the Sentry. I think that the post Dark Avengers Sentry would have destroyed the entire Justice League, which Darkseid has faced far quicker.

Classic Thanos:
Who is classic Thanos? The one prior to Death upgrades? If so, why would you put a weaker Thanos against Sentry? Do you expect the more recent versions of Thanos to beat the Sentry?
I personally don't. I think that Sentry has enough physical strength and durability to go toe to toe with Thanos, but also that he has more hax abilities than Thanos. Sentry has more potent and destructive molecule manipulation, a stronger healing / immortality factor and he has a far higher energy output.
In the Incursion story Thanos and his Black Order crew were going from one Earth to another and using bombs from Reed Richards (I think) to destroy those Earths. A reader had asked Tom Brevoort if Thanos couldn't simply destroy the Earths under his own power and Brevoort told him to read the comic. Thanos can't destroy the Earth under his own power. He simply can't. Thanos fans on this board don't seem to like that, but that's the harsh reality. Sentry on the other hand has the needed, destructive energy output to destroy it.

Classic Fate & Classic Strange:
You can look at it both ways... Classic Fate and Classic Strange (although Classic Strange is still the current Strange, since there was never a retcon or something) had insane showings. They were fighting off truly cosmic threats. Given enough time to prepare for those.
But at the same time Sentry's story has him being an old character, who has always been around. Also as the Void. And Strange was never able to do something against the Void. Strange tried to use black magic on Sentry, but Sentry broke free and knocked Strange out, with Strange stating, that Sentry was always too powerful for that kind of magic.
So basically Classic / Current Strange was never capable of beating the Sentry / the Void, no matter how much time he had to prepare.

Classic Odin:
As you can probably assume it from my paragraph above... I think that Odin would beat the Sentry. Odin has supposedly affected galaxies in his fight. Sentry hasn't. Sentry's energies went far beyond planetary at the highest from what we've seen, but galaxies are still whole another level. Odin has the needed abilities to stop the Sentry, like stopping time, all the gimmicks with the magic and so on.

But here is the deal and ultimately that, what makes the Sentry so confusing... If it ever came down to a fight between Odin and Sentry, I would expect Odin to win. But if Sentry ended up winning the fight I wouldn't be surprised. If Sentry fought Galactus, I would expect Galactus to win. But if Sentry won, I wouldn't be surprised either.
Sentry has that ridiculous X-Factor, where no one knows what he truly is. Dark Avengers Molecule Man was still the Molecule Man from the old days and even if he was depowered, he still said, that he had never experienced something like Sentry's molecules. And Molecule Man has experienced multiverses. Yet nothing like the Sentry. If that's not crazy, then I don't know either.

Damn that's a good post.

Pillow Biter
A decent that post that probably underrates Sentry. I think he is probably MORE powerful than Odin. Full-power Sentry is not "Trans".

-Pr-
Originally posted by tkitna
I'm 46. How old are you kid?

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
He's probably like 15 (he acts like it)

Anyhow who pays attention to Reality Warper?

He is even more extreme than Enzeru when it comes to the Sentry.

Really? How many times do you have to be told to stop before you stop?

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Diesldude
Loki is a god (lowercase g) too right?

You are missing the point.

Jenkins said that Sentry is advanced beyond Molecule Man and Beyonder.

That means that Sentry is far more powerful than them.

He is using the word God in that sense:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/god

1. God

a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.


2. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.


Sentry is a near-omnipotent being able to control the reality.

That's all you need to understand from that twit.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Pillow Biter
A decent that post that probably underrates Sentry. I think he is probably MORE powerful than Odin. Full-power Sentry is not "Trans".

He is clearly above Molecule Man and Beyonder by feats.

I mean, you don't swat Molecule Man like a fly in two seconds if you aren't far more powerful than him. Molecule Man is very well trained in the use of his powers while Sentry is a rookie.


However as Sentry's power is limitless, comparing him with other abstracts beings with limitless power themselves is complicated.

He is said to have "unlimited psionic power" like the Living Tribunal and the Pre-retcon Beyonder in the OHOTMU Master Edition.

Pillow Biter
There are degrees of omnipotence, but yes, it can be hard to start ranking at that level.
But we are in general agreement about his potential power.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Pillow Biter
There are degrees of omnipotence, but yes, it can be hard to start ranking at that level.
But we are in general agreement about his potential power.

I said near-omnipotent because the "true omnipotent" is the Above-All-Others. stick out tongue

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Enzeru
I'll answer that question for you, but I hope you don't mind reading a lot:

On battle boards we always go with the most recent version of a character. And when it comes to the Sentry many readers make the mistake of not doing so. They look at stuff that has happened in the past, even though it doesn't matter anymore.
The Sentry had changed after his encounter with the Molecule Man. During that fight he went: "I have this" and then he did the impossible. He beat the Molecule Man at his own game. And that Molecule Man ripped him apart before. But Sentry reconstructed himself and defeated him. At that moment the Sentry had become truly invincible.

The weakest the Sentry has ever been in the comics was during his fight against World War Hulk. Let's just assume that Incredible Hulk is a high herald strength and durability wise, when he is angry. And during World War Hulk he was far more angry. Is it crazy to assume that WW Hulk was a low trans, or maybe even a mid trans level character at that point? At least strength and durability wise.
And the Sentry at his absolutely lowest in terms of power fought that Hulk to a standstill. No one was holding back during that encounter. All of it is well documented.

So you have Sentry at his weakest fighting off a low to mid trans level character. And that was prior to his "power upgrade", which he received during the Molecule Man fight, where he had figured it all out.

Speaking of the Molecule Man fight. During that fight the Sentry was not as unstable as he was during the WW Hulk arc. And with the Sentry he becomes overall more powerful the more mentally stable he is. It's like with Superman being near Kryptonite. The closer he is, the weaker he becomes.
So Sentry during the Dark Avengers storyline was above a low to mid trans level character. And the Molecule Man ripped someone like that apart like he was nothing. The Molecule Man also transformed the Adamantium in Bullseyes spine into water. So Molecule Man as well was easily above a low to mid trans level character at that point. Since they are usually not capable of destroying +high herald level opponents like that. Thanos has molecule manipulation to an extent and he wouldn't be able to destroy Thor on a molecular level. The Dark Avengers Molecule Man would have done that with a thought.
(And all of that even if we assume that Sentry's durability is below the one of trans level characters. His durability was always kinda questionable and he made a lot of it up with his healing factor. But it still easily at high herald levels, if not above.)

I believe, that a mentally stable Sentry is the absolutely most powerful high trans level character in comics. There is no one, who comes even close to him in that tier. Not even Thanos.
Sentry has the upper hand, because he is so ridiculously versatile. He has all those hax abilities and is immortal. If you want to beat the Sentry, then you need to have a ton of hax abilities as well. And that above the Sentry's level.

Now the question would be if the Sentry approaches skyfather levels. I don't think that he does, judging by the feats alone. Skyfathers have done more impressive stuff than the Sentry has.
Odin alone has not only made the entire Earth civilization forget something, but he has also transported them all from one planet to another. With his magic alone. And on top of that Odin's Asgardian Magic is probably not far below the power of the Norn Stones, which have caused the Sentry harm in the past. We also had Asgardian Magic enchanting an axe to a point, where it was capable of killing Celestials. If Odin wants Sentry dead, Sentry would die. So I don't think that Sentry approaches high skyfather levels. However I do think that he would put up a better fight than Thanos did against Odin.



New 52 Darkseid:
I haven't read the Darkseid War storyline, but from the early New 52 comics with Darkseid in them, Darkseid has done nothing to a point, where I could see him beat the Sentry. I think that the post Dark Avengers Sentry would have destroyed the entire Justice League, which Darkseid has faced far quicker.

Classic Thanos:
Who is classic Thanos? The one prior to Death upgrades? If so, why would you put a weaker Thanos against Sentry? Do you expect the more recent versions of Thanos to beat the Sentry?
I personally don't. I think that Sentry has enough physical strength and durability to go toe to toe with Thanos, but also that he has more hax abilities than Thanos. Sentry has more potent and destructive molecule manipulation, a stronger healing / immortality factor and he has a far higher energy output.
In the Incursion story Thanos and his Black Order crew were going from one Earth to another and using bombs from Reed Richards (I think) to destroy those Earths. A reader had asked Tom Brevoort if Thanos couldn't simply destroy the Earths under his own power and Brevoort told him to read the comic. Thanos can't destroy the Earth under his own power. He simply can't. Thanos fans on this board don't seem to like that, but that's the harsh reality. Sentry on the other hand has the needed, destructive energy output to destroy it.

Classic Fate & Classic Strange:
You can look at it both ways... Classic Fate and Classic Strange (although Classic Strange is still the current Strange, since there was never a retcon or something) had insane showings. They were fighting off truly cosmic threats. Given enough time to prepare for those.
But at the same time Sentry's story has him being an old character, who has always been around. Also as the Void. And Strange was never able to do something against the Void. Strange tried to use black magic on Sentry, but Sentry broke free and knocked Strange out, with Strange stating, that Sentry was always too powerful for that kind of magic.
So basically Classic / Current Strange was never capable of beating the Sentry / the Void, no matter how much time he had to prepare.

Classic Odin:
As you can probably assume it from my paragraph above... I think that Odin would beat the Sentry. Odin has supposedly affected galaxies in his fight. Sentry hasn't. Sentry's energies went far beyond planetary at the highest from what we've seen, but galaxies are still whole another level. Odin has the needed abilities to stop the Sentry, like stopping time, all the gimmicks with the magic and so on.

But here is the deal and ultimately that, what makes the Sentry so confusing... If it ever came down to a fight between Odin and Sentry, I would expect Odin to win. But if Sentry ended up winning the fight I wouldn't be surprised. If Sentry fought Galactus, I would expect Galactus to win. But if Sentry won, I wouldn't be surprised either.
Sentry has that ridiculous X-Factor, where no one knows what he truly is. Dark Avengers Molecule Man was still the Molecule Man from the old days and even if he was depowered, he still said, that he had never experienced something like Sentry's molecules. And Molecule Man has experienced multiverses. Yet nothing like the Sentry. If that's not crazy, then I don't know either.
Great post

Diesldude
Originally posted by RealityWarper
You are missing the point.

Jenkins said that Sentry is advanced beyond Molecule Man and Beyonder.

That means that Sentry is far more powerful than them.

He is using the word God in that sense:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/god

1. God

a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.


2. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.


Sentry is a near-omnipotent being able to control the reality.

That's all you need to understand from that twit.

God <> god
True or False?

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Diesldude
God <> god
True or False?

There is no need to move the debate into semantics.

Diesldude
Originally posted by RealityWarper
There is no need to move the debate into semantics.

My point is relevant because you're trying to imply that Sentry is some kind of an Omnipotent God.
"god" has never been used this way. While God has been used to refer to lesser beings and supreme God, god has always been referred to common gods like ares, Loki.

That's what sentry was becoming per your scan.

Galan007
Originally posted by Enzeru
New 52 Darkseid:
I haven't read the Darkseid War storyline, but from the early New 52 comics with Darkseid in them, Darkseid has done nothing to a point, where I could see him beat the Sentry. I think that the post Dark Avengers Sentry would have destroyed the entire Justice League, which Darkseid has faced far quicker. DCnU Darkseid is a bonafide universal+ power...


1.) It was stated that Darkseid can, and has, destroyed/consumed universeS:
http://i.imgur.com/XAEis9O.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/d9hvill.jpg

2.) DCnU Anti-Monitor was absorbing "all the power" of entire universeS prior to confronting Darkseid:
http://i.imgur.com/OqwB1Bu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tbLToDY.jpg

3.) Despite AM having absorbed the energy of multiple universeS before fighting Darkseid, they were still roughly equal when they battled. It was only AM's possession/mastery of the ALE(which Darkseid was unaware of, mind you) that finally gave him the edge -- and that was because he used it to take control of the Black Racer/Death, and turn it against Darkseid:
http://i.imgur.com/G1Spd3Y.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1QQosdG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/e9GhixX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/y76clye.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Zk8Ejkb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vCsifNk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fK1X4C7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aMzNxhF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/RHoeAZn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qOK1j2N.jpg

4.) In the wake of Darkseid's 'death', the Parademons attacked Oa and merged his Mother Box with the Central Battery. They needed someone/thing to rule them, and the CB's "infinite" energy was the closest match to Darkseid's power that his Mother Box, with its Source-gleaned "omni-knowledge"(aka. omniscience), could locate:
http://i.imgur.com/jKN2MU7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9vMoodQ.jpg


IOW, he's extremely powerful.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Diesldude
My point is relevant because you're trying to imply that Sentry is some kind of an Omnipotent God.
"god" has never been used this way. While God has been used to refer to lesser beings and supreme God, god has always been referred to common gods like ares, Loki.

That's what sentry was becoming per your scan.


I'm trying to imply nothing.

I've showed the twitter of Sentry's creator.

Here Paul Jenkins made it clear that Sentry is advanced beyond Molecule Man and Beyonder so your point is null & void.

All of them are kinda Omnipotent. They can do everything.

Diesldude
Originally posted by RealityWarper
I'm trying to imply nothing.

I've showed the twitter of Sentry's creator.

Here Paul Jenkins made it clear that Sentry is advanced beyond Molecule Man and Beyonder so your point is null & void.

All of them are kinda Omnipotent. They can do everything.

So why are you spamming every thread with this scan? Honest question because I really want to know.

Diesldude
Originally posted by Galan007
DCnU Darkseid is a bonafide universal+ power...


1.) It was stated that Darkseid can, and has, destroyed/consumed universeS:
http://i.imgur.com/XAEis9O.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/d9hvill.jpg

2.) DCnU Anti-Monitor was absorbing "all the power" of entire universeS prior to confronting Darkseid:
http://i.imgur.com/OqwB1Bu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tbLToDY.jpg

3.) Despite AM having absorbed the energy of multiple universeS before fighting Darkseid, they were still roughly equal when they battled. It was only AM's possession/mastery of the ALE(which Darkseid was unaware of, mind you) that finally gave him the edge -- and that was because he used it to take control of the Black Racer/Death, and turn it against Darkseid:
http://i.imgur.com/G1Spd3Y.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1QQosdG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/e9GhixX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/y76clye.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Zk8Ejkb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vCsifNk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fK1X4C7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aMzNxhF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/RHoeAZn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qOK1j2N.jpg

4.) In the wake of Darkseid's 'death', the Parademons attacked Oa and merged his Mother Box with the Central Battery. They needed someone/thing to rule them, and the CB's "infinite" energy was the closest match to Darkseid's power that his Mother Box, with its Source-gleaned "omni-knowledge"(aka. omniscience), could locate:
http://i.imgur.com/jKN2MU7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9vMoodQ.jpg


IOW, he's extremely powerful.
That's why I was surprised with Sin's post.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Diesldude
So why are you spamming every thread with this scan? Honest question because I really want to know.

Because he confirms that Sentry is far more powerful than Molecule Man.

So it confirms that I was right one more time and that Molecule Man being weakened against Sentry is a fairytale.

I don't get why you are going off-topic with the term of god which is the less important thing in that thread.

Rao Kal El
laughing out loud

Sin I AM
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Because he confirms that Sentry is far more powerful than Molecule Man.

So it confirms that I was right one more time and that Molecule Man being weakened against Sentry is a fairytale.

I don't get why you are going off-topic with the term of god which is the less important thing in that thread.

At this point youre trolling and its phuckin annoying

carver9
Writers opinions are amazing but we can't use it as evidence tbh. Jason said that Hulk is the most powerful being in the Universe. I would LOVE to use that as evidence of his power level but it just ain't true.

Galan007
thumb up

Another example:
Brevoort has made multiple statements that Marvel: The End is non-canon, despite multiple comics definitively proving its canonicity... Obviously Brevoort's casual/non-published statements don't 'de-canonize' years-worth of in-universe material, lol.

iceman24567
thumb up

tkitna
Originally posted by Sin I AM
At this point youre trolling and its phuckin annoying

thumb up

carver9
Originally posted by Galan007
thumb up

Another example:
Brevoort has made multiple statements that Marvel: The End is non-canon, despite multiple comics definitively proving its canonicity... Obviously Brevoort's casual/non-published statements don't 'de-canonize' years-worth of in-universe material, lol.

Pretty much. I thought this was common here on KMC. If the rules has changed, I have been dying to post that interview when Pak compared Hulk to Galactus in power. ABHI, do you still have that interview where it was said Superman has Femto seconds speed? Or no elder God being more powerful than Shuma. Writers usually say things that they know the fans want to hear. At the end of the day, it's all about pleasing the fans. Reality will catch on. He isn't as bad as some people are saying.

iceman24567
Jesus please dont go posting interviews erm

carver9
I'm looking for them now.

abhilegend
Originally posted by RealityWarper
Because he confirms that Sentry is far more powerful than Molecule Man.

So it confirms that I was right one more time and that Molecule Man being weakened against Sentry is a fairytale.

I don't get why you are going off-topic with the term of god which is the less important thing in that thread.
laughing out loud

quanchi112
Originally posted by abhilegend
laughing out loud ??

Mr Master
Originally posted by RealityWarper

He is clearly above Molecule Man and Beyonder by feats.

However as Sentry's power is limitless,
comparing him with other abstracts beings with limitless power themselves is complicated.

He is said to have "unlimited psionic power" like the Living Tribunal and the Pre-retcon Beyonder
lmfao

-Pr-
Originally posted by Galan007
thumb up

Another example:
Brevoort has made multiple statements that Marvel: The End is non-canon, despite multiple comics definitively proving its canonicity... Obviously Brevoort's casual/non-published statements don't 'de-canonize' years-worth of in-universe material, lol.

Which is funny to me, as The End shouldn't be canon imo. The X-Men parts anyway.

Galan007
Originally posted by -Pr-
Which is funny to me, as The End shouldn't be canon imo. The X-Men parts anyway. None of the other 'The End' titles are canon, afaik. Only this specific mini is:
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/marvel-universe-the-end/4050-18641/

It's been mentioned in several canon comics/handbooks since its release... Brevoort f*cking hates it being canon, though, and tries to act like its not in interviews and such. It's hilarious. thumb up

-Pr-
Originally posted by Galan007
None of the other 'The End' titles are canon, afaik. Only this specific mini is:
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/marvel-universe-the-end/4050-18641/

It's been mentioned in several canon comics/handbooks since its release... Brevoort f*cking hates it being canon, though, and tries to act like its not in interviews and such. It's hilarious. thumb up

Oh okay. Then I really don't care.

Galan007
http://i.imgur.com/THq1aEC.jpg

iceman24567
thumb up You should have gone and phucked yourself a long time ago Galan

Galan007
I just needed Pr's subtle guidance, is all. thumb up

iceman24567
Hmm the Irish are good for something thumb up

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Sin I AM
At this point youre trolling and its phuckin annoying

I'm not trolling at all.

I've provided multiples proofs of everything I've said while on the other hand this thread is filled with inconclusive claims and contradictions.

You are just bothered that nothing in what I said fulfill your beliefs to the character.

You've said to me in PM that I should create a topic about Sentry Vs Lucifer Morningstar to see what happen...

Your concern is clearly to have someone undermine Sentry's power-level so you can claim that Lucifer beat him, which isn't the case.

You need a mean for your pre-conceived opinion to be helped at that point.

Newsflash: Lucifer Morningstar is nothing special when it comes to the power-level, Marvel has a lot of characters able to defeat him effortlessly...
Sentry is one of them.

I truly don't care.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by RealityWarper
I'm not trolling at all.

I've provided multiples proofs of everything I've said while on the other hand this thread is filled with inconclusive claims and contradictions.

You are just bothered that nothing in what I said fulfill your beliefs to the character.

You've said to me in PM that I should create a topic about Sentry Vs Lucifer Morningstar to see what happen...

Your concern is clearly to have someone undermine Sentry's power-level so you can claim that Lucifer beat him, which isn't the case.

You need a mean for your pre-conceived opinion to be helped at that point.

Newsflash: Lucifer Morningstar is nothing special when it comes to the power-level, Marvel has a lot of characters able to defeat him effortlessly...
Sentry is one of them.

I truly don't care.

No you truly DO care.

Look. I get it. You have a hard on for Sentry. He's all powerful to you and u will defend that position till you die. But you ARE trolling. Repeating a point ad nauseum doesn't make you intellectually superior, it makes you an ass. ESPECIALLY given the fact that I asked in the OP not to include writer/editor etc statements just so we could avoid this little conversation we are having now. There's a whole gamut (classy word there &ltwink of reasons why we place certain characters in certain tiers. It's purely subjective but hyperbolic statements are generally cast aside.

Oh and you pmed me btw and I pretty much summed up what I just said. I only used Lucifer in jest and at this point I'm concluding your a either a sock or troll unless someone proves otherwise

Pillow Biter
There are no hard and fast rules for what "counts" in comics. You have to take in everything and evaluate for each specific situation.

Writer comments matter to me a lot. But no one thing is "definitive" in comics.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Pillow Biter
There are no hard and fast rules for what "counts" in comics. You have to take in everything and evaluate for each specific situation.

Writer comments matter to me a lot. But no one thing is "definitive" in comics.

I completely agree with you and of course the source must be valid (official sources, writers words, interviews, officials handbooks, databooks, etc...)

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Sin I AM
No you truly DO care.


You didn't understand properly.

I truly don't care if you like my claim or not.

The proof are here.



So now instead of giving arguments, which you don't have, you think it's preferable to attack me directly ?

Interesting.



I'm not.

You didn't provide a single argument backed-up by anything in your own thread.

I wonder who's trolling at that point...




I'm repeating a valid point from a valid authority.

But please go on with the Ad Hominem, we see your true colors here.



Writer and editor words are valid sources.

They know better about the characters than everyone whom isn't an authority at Marvel so dismissing them is invalid.



That's cool.
I didn't use any "hyperbolic statements".



You asked me to provide proof in another thread before handwaving them.

If you are fine relying on willful ignorance why asking me for precisions in the first place ?



Now it's a mix of unfounded accusations and Argumentum Ex Culo.

Interesting.

That shows that you never intended to debate in the first place and that you only want to stay with your pre-conceived opinion.

Good luck. smile

Pillow Biter
Even then, no hard and fast views on validity. But of course validity matters.

In the old DCU, there was tradition that even though Superman might outperform Captain Marvel versus others, when put in the same comic, they had to be physically identical: equally strong, fast, and tough. And fights would end in draws, unless there were extenuating circumstances.

But near the end of the old DCU, we started to see that consensus or tradition break down in the comics. And there was an animated JLU fight where Superman clearly beats Captain Marvel. That fight was not canon for the comics. Or even a valid source for the comics. Nevertheless, I still felt it shed some light on future comic fights because it demonstrated that the writer trend to always make them equals was breaking down.

Hulk and Thor had once been equals, though maybe not as firmly equal as Superman and Captain Marvel. But over time, Hulk was starting to pull ahead--it just made sense with his mythos. Hulk needs to be the baddest guy on the block when he flips out for the tragedy of the Hulk to really work. The fact that in the Ultimates and in the Avengers movie Hulk seemed to be more powerful than Thor shed light on what was happening in the mind of creators. And while not definitive evidence, they were things I'd consider in rating a Hulk vs. Thor fight in the regular Marvel U.

ghostman
Originally posted by Pillow Biter
Even then, no hard and fast views on validity. But of course validity matters.

In the old DCU, there was tradition that even though Superman might outperform Captain Marvel versus others, when put in the same comic, they had to be physically identical: equally strong, fast, and tough. And fights would end in draws, unless there were extenuating circumstances.

But near the end of the old DCU, we started to see that consensus or tradition break down in the comics. And there was an animated JLU fight where Superman clearly beats Captain Marvel. That fight was not canon for the comics. Or even a valid source for the comics. Nevertheless, I still felt it shed some light on future comic fights because it demonstrated that the writer trend to always make them equals was breaking down.

Hulk and Thor had once been equals, though maybe not as firmly equal as Superman and Captain Marvel. But over time, Hulk was starting to pull ahead--it just made sense with his mythos. Hulk needs to be the baddest guy on the block when he flips out for the tragedy of the Hulk to really work. The fact that in the Ultimates and in the Avengers movie Hulk seemed to be more powerful than Thor shed light on what was happening in the mind of creators. And while not definitive evidence, they were things I'd consider in rating a Hulk vs. Thor fight in the regular Marvel U.


also the voidhound turned captain marvels ass inside out while superman shrugged it off superman has always been ahead.

Badabing
Originally posted by Digi
Debating Format

No Non-canon Sources
Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.

A canon source is one that is regarded as being 'in continuity'. In the example of Star Trek; instances from the series and movies can be used, but books are definitely out. Comic book crossovers are usually unusable as they ignore common sense most of the time (DC vs. Marvel is certainly unusable in some cases in our debates!).

This includes JLA/Avengers. Canon or not, people just aren't going to agree on it in most cases. Besides, there should be plenty of other comics with which to make your point.

Comics released strictly online or on web sites will not be considered proof in the Comic Book Versus Forum.

An obscure interview given by someone involved in a story arc is not proof to refute feats. Neither is a random post by a supposed writer on a message board, blogs, tweets, etc. There have been too many of these so called interviews which go against what's shown on panel. Especially when there is no dialogue to refute what's happening on panel. Most writers are clear with the intentions of the plot and story arc.

This principle extends to characters with multiple versions, alternate timelines, etc. Unless specified by the thread starter, only current-version canon feats are allowed.

carver9
Originally posted by Pillow Biter
There are no hard and fast rules for what "counts" in comics. You have to take in everything and evaluate for each specific situation.

Writer comments matter to me a lot. But no one thing is "definitive" in comics.

Writers comment matter? Odin Force Thor was compared to Odin and was said to be more powerful than Odin to a question to Pak and Pak still said Hulk would've defeated him.

http://old.brokenfrontier.com/columns/p/detail/a-visit-from-lopresti

Am I able to accept this as fact or does this only apply to Sentry.

tkitna
Originally posted by RealityWarper

That shows that you never intended to debate in the first place and that you only want to stay with your pre-conceived opinion.


The problem is, there is no debating with you. Everytime you get backed into a corner or something, you post your infamous Jenkins tweet like its your 'Get Out Of Jail Free' card. Its great that Jenkins apparent view of the Sentry is of a character that is some all powerful being, but the problem is, the Sentry has never been written as such in any comic,,,,,even by Jenkins himself. Sentry's best feat is matching a mentally disturbed Molecule Man. When people think of a Molecule Man at his best, they think of a character that was casually snapping his fingers and repairing broken galaxies while holding a conversation. It was clear that Owen wasnt operating at that level during his encounter with Bob. To say anything differently would be asinine.

In short, the Sentry has never been depicted as being able to destroy galaxies or solar systems with mere thoughts. This is why nobody takes Jenkins words seriously. I'm one of the biggest Sentry fanboys on this site, but you make it tough to like and stand by the character with your continuous boasts and the same old Jenkins quote over and over again.

iceman24567
Originally posted by tkitna
The problem is, there is no debating with you. Everytime you get backed into a corner or something, you post your infamous Jenkins tweet like its your 'Get Out Of Jail Free' card. Its great that Jenkins apparent view of the Sentry is of a character that is some all powerful being, but the problem is, the Sentry has never been written as such in any comic,,,,,even by Jenkins himself. Sentry's best feat is matching a mentally disturbed Molecule Man. When people think of a Molecule Man at his best, they think of a character that was casually snapping his fingers and repairing broken galaxies while holding a conversation. It was clear that Owen wasnt operating at that level during his encounter with Bob. To say anything differently would be asinine.

In short, the Sentry has never been depicted as being able to destroy galaxies or solar systems with mere thoughts. This is why nobody takes Jenkins words seriously. I'm one of the biggest Sentry fanboys on this site, but you make it tough to like and stand by the character with your continuous boasts and the same old Jenkins quote over and over again. You are a die hard Sentry fan but you can be objective thats why i respect you thumb up

Sharivan
Seriously, Molecule Man couldn't even warp reality beyond the range of the city at that point. That's how neutered he was.

Defeating MM at that point, where he has been that weakened, is not impressive.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by tkitna
The problem is, there is no debating with you. Everytime you get backed into a corner or something, you post your infamous Jenkins tweet like its your 'Get Out Of Jail Free' card. Its great that Jenkins apparent view of the Sentry is of a character that is some all powerful being, but the problem is, the Sentry has never been written as such in any comic,,,,,even by Jenkins himself. Sentry's best feat is matching a mentally disturbed Molecule Man. When people think of a Molecule Man at his best, they think of a character that was casually snapping his fingers and repairing broken galaxies while holding a conversation. It was clear that Owen wasnt operating at that level during his encounter with Bob. To say anything differently would be asinine.

In short, the Sentry has never been depicted as being able to destroy galaxies or solar systems with mere thoughts. This is why nobody takes Jenkins words seriously. I'm one of the biggest Sentry fanboys on this site, but you make it tough to like and stand by the character with your continuous boasts and the same old Jenkins quote over and over again.


1) Jenkins wrote Sentry this way.

I think that you didn't get that Sentry wasn't part of the Marvel Universe, part of the life of every heroes... Before he rewrited the reality to part of all of that.

He changed the past and the reality without creating a new timeline...

2) Owen wasn't weakened or depowered.

I explained it many times on comic vine and in the thread about if Superman and Sentry switched their places...

You obviously didn't read it so:

Originally posted by RealityWarper
I explained it in this article that Owen had no negative beliefs on his abilities and therefore was at full power:

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/death-seed-sentry-vs-superman-inspired-team-1658845/?page=2#js-message-14290836

You can notice that's only Owen's negative beliefs about his abilities that weakens his power. His mental state doesn't matter at all.

I can show you all marvel handbooks and datafiles refering to the fact that Owen's abilities are only weakened by his beliefs into them.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/23992/4759942-drf-041-molecule-man.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/23992/4759943-marvel-universe-009-04.jpg


http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/23992/4759944-molecule_man_2.jpg



http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/23992/4759945-new-avengers-most-wanted-files-32.jpg


Tom Brevoort, the Marvel's Editor whom editor the Dark Reign story, confirmed that Owen wasn't weakened or depowered thus confirming that Owen was at his best:



http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/6/64880/4681149-6999850798-AcW4S.jpg

Anyway Sentry's creator Paul Jenkins confirmed that Sentry is a reality warper far more powerful than Molecule Man and Beyonder.

Bendis whom was Sentry's main writer during ages said on his site that he used Sentry the same way that Jenkins did and he confirmed that Sentry has no limit to his power-level and that he has the ability to craft/ to form a reality at a molecular-level:
This naturally leads to the conclusion that there is no need for the writer to weaken Owen Reece as Sentry's power is limitless.

3) Owen explained many times that he used his powers to be left alone in his city. He didn't limit their scales, he just chosen not to use them on a larger scale which doesn't undermine his power-level.

4) Not taking the words an author about his creation is extremely silly.
We don't need to see the Sentry destroying the Universe to know that he can.
There is many proofs in the comics AND the author's words are all that matter as he chooses what his character can do.
It's fictional and the Argument from Incredulity is logically fallacious.

5) You must take in account that at those times I meant "Omniversal" and not "Multiversal". I wasn't on page with the exact definition.

Rao Kal El
http://gif.co/t7Pb.gif

Sharivan
Anyone who posts anything Tom Brevoort says should be banned by default.

That is that same person who thinks Spiderman is faster than the Silver Surfer, and who thought that Captain America being turned into a hydra agent was a good idea. Which immediately led to Marvel having to do damage control because of how bad it was.

Tom Brevoort literally does not read comic books anymore. He didn't even know that Molecule Man's abilities were restricted and could only influence things within the range of a city.

That data book ignores what happens in the comic book itself, and how weakened Molecule Man was when compared to himself in the past.

He was not restricting himself on purpose. He had lost control of his abilities at that point.

RealityWarper
Originally posted by Sharivan
Anyone who posts anything Tom Brevoort says should be banned by default.

There is a context to understand behind everything.



Brevoort was speaking about the abilities in combat.
It's not about travel speed...



To each his own.
That's a matter of taste.



It was unpopular, and ?



Please prove that silly claim.




They weren't restricted at all. He just chosen not to use them for the reasons I mentioned above.

I guess that it's easier to handwave everything, right ?




It doesn't ignore anything.
On the other hand you are relying on willful ignorance.



He chosen not to use his abilities outside of the city to avoid to attract the attention.
He said many times that he wanted to be left alone.


He never lost the control of his abilities.

Sentry is just far more powerful than him.

h1a8
Wasn't it stated that Sentry's power level fluctuates based off his mental state? That means we can chalk low showings up to that. Also, at best Sentry showed no limit to his power. He overpowered someone who can easily dismantle Mjolnir or adamantium. He created a werewolf in his hand as a symbol of omnipotence. This backs the writer.

iceman24567
As usual h1 is 100% wrong

Sharivan
Originally posted by RealityWarper There is a context to understand behind everything.

Yes, and the context here is that Tom Brevoort does not know that Molecule Man was weakened.



Are you seriously going to argue that Spiderman has better combat speed than the Silver Surfer?

That is freaking retarded.



This is not a matter of taste.

This is objectively bad. That's how bad it is.

You cannot argue that it is good.




Due to the fact it was freaking idiotic, and a cash grab. As well as a series of moves to shift the topic from comic books to SJW pornography.



Besides the fact Tom Brevoort doesn't know any of the context of the comic books he supposedly reads?

http://i.imgur.com/LpaWeAs.jpg

Just look at that hipster. He even has a freaking fedora.

The best part is that Tom Brevoort ignores his own stance regarding transitive properties. Not only does he say that Spiderman is faster than the Silver Surfer because of instances where Spiderman has the upper hand against Silver Surfer?

He does the same thing here.

He ignores his own stance regarding transitive properties, and says that the Sentry is more powerful because he defeated a weakened Molecule Man.

He is a hypocrite and a liar, and only adheres to his judgment regarding transitive properties when he is not talking about something he has a bias for.



No, Molecule Man did not and you have yet to prove that within the story itself instead of relying on databooks that constantly contradict themselves.



That is what you're doing right now. You are building a false narrative that is not supported by what actually happens.



This isn't willful ignorance. I am not the one ignoring that Molecule Man is nowhere near as powerful as he should be when this happens.

That's you, and that's Tom Brevoort even in regards to his own stances. There is no consistency.



Citation needed.

I have a feeling that you're going to grab a scan, and then proceed to purposely misinterpret its context.




How in the world does this translate to Molecule Man holding himself back on purpose? You're taking something he said out of context, and taking your own personal opinion of what it means as objective fact.



Yes, Molecule Man did. He was going crazy.

http://i.imgur.com/KuoOEME.jpg

He wanted to be found, and he wanted to be stopped. This is made explicity clear when his own abilities were acting against him, and noting just that.



By Tom Brevoort's own stance regarding transitive properties we wouldn't be able to use Sentry's fight with Molecule Man.

We would only be able to use their individual feats that do not involve their showings over others.

Yet, Tom Brevoort drops this stance at a moment's notice.

Rao Kal El
In that scan Molecule Man seems as mentally stable as reality warper.

Mr Master
edit

Mr Master
stick out tongue

Mr Master
Originally posted by Sharivan

Molecule Man's abilities were restricted and could only influence things within the range of a city.
Actually ... a Town of 44 people. ... So, far less than a city. smile

As for the public:

Owen didn't vaporize Sentry with an energy blast,
something a Thanos, or Odin would commonly use to crack Sentry.

Owen used his power (unstable or not) at close range to disperse Sentry's molecules,
and then he put them back together twice.
Regardless that Sentry's made of unique molecules,
he's still made of molecules nonetheless,
and that falls right into Owen's power. (unstable or not)

--------------------------------------------------

Anyway, the "current power level" during Dark Reign was known:

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16555053_Owen_limited1.jpg

"I control the molecules of the very world, well, the ones around me"

--------------------------------------------------

So less than global, and it can't be denied.

When taking into account his feats, pathetically far less than global.

Literally, his influence stretched across a Town of 44 people.

--------------------------------------------------


So what were Owen's feats in Dark Reign aside from confronting Sentry:

1) Went to his tiny home town,
and dispersed the molecules of all the residents there (44 people)
the molecules were left right in the town btw.

2) Re-arrange the molecules of a handful of Avengers (he didn't want to kill anyone)

3) Mind-phuk Norman Osborn via brain molecules

--------------------------------------------------


So what were Evil Molecule Man's feats: (Owen Reece unleashed)

1) ripped the essence of a Cube being from another universe away

2) cosmic speed-blitzing simultaneously with devastating energy blasts plus also

3) reality warping the most powerful Cube being

4) battling on all sorts of Planes of Existence

5) contributing (perhaps mostly) to spacial-temporal restructuring within Realities across the infinite Multiverse and beyond!

--------------------------------------------------

The Owen Reece Void/Sentry defeated pales in comparison with unleashed Owen. stoned

Mr Master
-------------------------------------------------------

So, ... on top of being mentally unstable!
(Owen created illusionary facsimiles of Beyonder, Mephisto & others,
so he could talk to himself since they were reflections of his sub-conscious)

... Owen also de-powered himself at the end of the Post-Beyonder fight:

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16894092_Owen2.jpg

--------------------------

... Which is probably why in the Sentry encounter he's limited to localized molecular control:

(not even global)

(Owen himself stated this)

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16555053_Owen_limited1.jpg


(Victoria Hand confirms this fact)

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16555054_Owen_limted2.jpg

--------------------------

... so that ... on top of literally wanting to lose during the Sentry comedy ...

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16285428_Owen.jpg


Actually, I prefer to say,
Owen eased the win for Sentry, rather than outright handing it to him.
... meh, Sentry was obliterated on 3 separate occasions by Owen,
and at the end, Sentry even got a clean shot at Owen,
(same looking energy he used to defeat Owen)
and Owen immediately recovered/retaliated & exploded Sentry a Third time:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16287646_O1.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16287649_O2.jpg

Then, the same looking orange energy has a lasting affect 3 pages later. lol
It seems to me, sub-consciously Owen had enough, and it was time to go away,
and Sentry was the only one powerful enough he could count on for the job.

Imo.

===============================


So, Owen didn't, and showed No sign of having trans-multiversal,
multiversal, universal, galactic, solar system, solar, global, country,
state even city wide range of influence over molecules, as opposed
to actual On Panel feats affecting 44 people in a tiny Town, and a
handful of Avengers. While beyond that literally stating clearly
without room for interpretation his limitations. Even using a
comparison: 'the World? ... actually no, ... just those around me.'

That's a far cry from the guy contributing to a Trans-Multiversal feat ey?

Sharivan
Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually ... a Town of 44 people. ... So, far less than a city. smile

As for the public:

Owen didn't vaporize Sentry with an energy blast,
something a Thanos, or Odin would commonly use to crack Sentry.

Owen used his power (unstable or not) at close range to disperse Sentry's molecules,
and then he put them back together twice.
Regardless that Sentry's made of unique molecules,
he's still made of molecules nonetheless,
and that falls right into Owen's power. (unstable or not)

--------------------------------------------------

Anyway, the "current power level" during Dark Reign was known:

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16555053_Owen_limited1.jpg

"I control the molecules of the very world, well, the ones around me"

--------------------------------------------------

So less than global, and it can't be denied.

When taking into account his feats, pathetically far less than global.

Literally, his influence stretched across a Town of 44 people.

--------------------------------------------------


So what were Owen's feats in Dark Reign aside from confronting Sentry:

1) Went to his tiny home town,
and dispersed the molecules of all the residents there (44 people)
the molecules were left right in the town btw.

2) Re-arrange the molecules of a handful of Avengers (he didn't want to kill anyone)

3) Mind-phuk Norman Osborn via brain molecules

--------------------------------------------------


So what were Evil Molecule Man's feats: (Owen Reece unleashed)

1) ripped the essence of a Cube being from another universe away

2) cosmic speed-blitzing simultaneously with devastating energy blasts plus also

3) reality warping the most powerful Cube being

4) battling on all sorts of Planes of Existence

5) contributing (perhaps mostly) to spacial-temporal restructuring within Realities across the infinite Multiverse and beyond!

--------------------------------------------------

The Owen Reece Void/Sentry defeated pales in comparison with unleashed Owen. stoned

Originally posted by Mr Master
-------------------------------------------------------

So, ... on top of being mentally unstable!
(Owen created illusionary facsimiles of Beyonder, Mephisto & others,
so he could talk to himself since they were reflections of his sub-conscious)

... Owen also de-powered himself at the end of the Post-Beyonder fight:

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16894092_Owen2.jpg

--------------------------

... Which is probably why in the Sentry encounter he's limited to localized molecular control:

(not even global)

(Owen himself stated this)

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16555053_Owen_limited1.jpg


(Victoria Hand confirms this fact)

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16555054_Owen_limted2.jpg

--------------------------

... so that ... on top of literally wanting to lose during the Sentry comedy ...

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/16285428_Owen.jpg


Actually, I prefer to say,
Owen eased the win for Sentry, rather than outright handing it to him.
... meh, Sentry was obliterated on 3 separate occasions by Owen,
and at the end, Sentry even got a clean shot at Owen,
(same looking energy he used to defeat Owen)
and Owen immediately recovered/retaliated & exploded Sentry a Third time:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16287646_O1.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16287649_O2.jpg

Then, the same looking orange energy has a lasting affect 3 pages later. lol
It seems to me, sub-consciously Owen had enough, and it was time to go away,
and Sentry was the only one powerful enough he could count on for the job.

Imo.

===============================


So, Owen didn't, and showed No sign of having trans-multiversal,
multiversal, universal, galactic, solar system, solar, global, country,
state even city wide range of influence over molecules, as opposed
to actual On Panel feats affecting 44 people in a tiny Town, and a
handful of Avengers. While beyond that literally stating clearly
without room for interpretation his limitations. Even using a
comparison: 'the World? ... actually no, ... just those around me.'

That's a far cry from the guy contributing to a Trans-Multiversal feat ey?

thumb up

Nicely done.

So, it was even less impressive than how I remembered it. It wasn't even a whole city.

Just a small town.

iceman24567
Agreed thumb up
Its a shame Mr Master had to waste time breaking it down when it was already picked at when Dark Reign was first released erm

Galan007
But...but... brevoort said owen am full power and sentry am omniverse in interview!!1!!!!!!1!111! durfist

Badabing
Originally posted by Galan007
But...but... brevoort said owen am full power and sentry am omniverse in interview!!1!!!!!!1!111! durfist laughing out loud

Sharivan
You see, this is why I said Tom Brevoort doesn't read comic books.

That, or he ignores everything that happens in them in lieu of whatever fan-fiction he feels like writing.

Badabing
Somebody PM me if people try using interviews, message board posts, tweets, blogs, etc. It's in the rules they are not to be used, and I've already posted the rules in this thread. The days of a few posters turning threads into nonsense are over.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Sharivan
You see, this is why I said Tom Brevoort doesn't read comic books.

That, or he ignores everything that happens in them in lieu of whatever fan-fiction he feels like writing.
Guy said Black Panther was stronger than Silver Surfer in defense of cosmic armbar.

no expression

Sharivan
Originally posted by abhilegend
Guy said Black Panther was stronger than Silver Surfer in defense of cosmic armbar.

no expression

Yet another reason why using anything the fedora wearing bastard says should be a bannable offense.

Enzeru
Again, it's the same nonsense with the backfire effect. I've schooled Mr Master on Molecule Man / Sentry related topics before, but he continues to post his point of view and ignore all the context which shows all the actual context:

1. Molecule Man was NOT limited to a 44-people-village-city molecule manipulation.

http://i.imgur.com/1er9xb8.jpg

In that scan you can clearly see the Molecule Man state, that he only wants the town he was in:
"Take the world. Now! It's yours to have."
"I don't want the world. I want here."

But in the minds of stupid people that must mean, that he wouldn't have been able to manipulate the entire planet, even if had wanted to, because hurrr hurrr derp derp?
That entire "local molecule manipulation" argument needs to go, since it straight up ignores SO MUCH provided context.

2. "The molecules around me."

http://i.imgur.com/XDem4xh.jpg

There you have a scan of an older version of Molecule Man, where he got refered to as one of the most powerful beings in the universe by the narration.

http://i.imgur.com/UwufFIv.jpg

In the same comic Molecule Man fought against Aron, the Watcher, who managed to beat Molecule Man by trapping the Molecule Man in a bubble with no molecules. Huh, would you look at that! Molecules Man had no molcules AROUND him to work with them.

3. Molecule Man did not want to lose that fight. And he didn't get distracted.

Again a stupid argument, which ignores so much provided context.
According to some users on these and other boards, Molecule Man subconsciously wanted to lose, since one of the illusions said, that he wanted to be found and caught.

Well, those illusions wanted him to drink the Bullseye water, skin and eliminate Victoria Hand, run away and hide... and he didn't do any of those things either!

http://i.imgur.com/tQa5xPP.jpg

And when he fought the Sentry, he clearly tried to fight back, but couldn't. He was even confused by why he wasn't able to beat the Sentry and then he lost.

And all of that just happened, after Sentry had figured it all out. Molecule Man did destroy the Sentry three times, before the Sentry finally had it all figured out.
Do you actually understand the needed level of power to destroy someone like the Sentry on a molecular and physical level? A 44-people-town level molecule manipulator can not do that. Common comic sense, people.

4. However, I do agree, that Molecule Man in Dark Avengers was weaker than older versions of him.

The problem with the entire topic is, that there are two sides to the argument... There is the side, with only RealityWarper on it.
In RealityWarper's mind Molecule Man was at his maximum power level, because he was able to affect organic matter. And back in the day, when he was more limited, he wasn't able to do that.
But the thing is, that prior to that Molecule Man got captured and put into the Raft, when his power levels were more managable. That's what a bio told us. And even a Molecule Man, who can't control organic matter, would roflstomp every earth-based agent or even superhero, who tries to capture him and put him into a prison.
The established fact later on was, that a mentally unstable Molecule Man had a lower power level overall and ordinary agents and superheroes were able to deal with him. And RealityWarper ignores that completely, because he has this one bio from 20 years ago, which says something else.

Now the other side of the argument is pretty much every Sentry hater ever, who takes all the credit away from his feat.
Listen, if you think that someone like Thor or even the matter manipulatin Silver Surfer would have been able to beat the Dark Avengers Molecule Man... then you're clearly high AF. And whatever you're smoking, I want some of it.
Dark Avengers Molecule Man would have destroyed legions and legions of superheroes. Throw Superman in as well, sprinkle Thanos on top and they would have all died. The needed level of offensive matter manipulation to kill someone like the Sentry is ridiculous. At it would have destroyed every regular high herald ever. And they wouldn't have come back from it, because they're not immortal.

Enzeru
I forgot one last point I wanted to make, which shouldn't be ignored either:

5. Molecule Man wasn't less powerful, just because he had less spectacular feats in Dark Avengers.

Now again for the record: As already established, I do think, that Molecule Man wasn't his old self, but some people (actually just one or two fortunately) try to sell it like since Molecule Man didn't affect the entire galaxy in Dark Avengers, he was obviously muuuch less powerful. That's terrible logic.

In Dark Avengers Molecule Man only had to deal with Avengers, HAMMER, few rockets and the Sentry. These were his obstacles and his performances against those tell literally nothing about his power level. Not even him losing to the Sentry, since Sentry's potential power level doesn't affect Molecule Man in the least. If he had lost to the Silver Surfer, someone who the Molecule Man already easily beat... That would have been another story.

Then there is something else:

http://i.imgur.com/mfJLPPo.jpg

Look at this scan... Sentry punches Thor and the narration states, that the impact of the punch is felt across the entire planet. And that planet had 19 billion residents, so one might assume, that it wasn't a small planet either.

Imagine the narration didn't give us that little bit of nice, extra information. How would you have described that punch? You would have described it as the Sentry punching Thor through a couple of buildings. It would have been much less spectacular. But with the additional information coming from the narration we realize just how powerful the Sentry is and how durable Thor is. A great feat for both of those guys.

http://i.imgur.com/gjax3Aj.jpg

Take a look at this scan. Same writer, but no narration at that point, since Remender had stopped adding the narration at that point.
Sentry punches Thor and knocks him out. Without the narration it seems much less spectacular, but we still know for a fact, that Sentry's punch must have been severe in order to knock Thor out. We know it from past showings and even their older fights.

Imagine Beyonder wouldn't have given us the extra information, that his blast with which he hit Molecule Man with, would have destroyed billions of dimensions. It would have been less spectacular, but it was still clear as day that a blast coming from Beyonder / Molecule Man was quite severe.

http://i.imgur.com/K3O2GMi.jpg

In the fight between Sentry and Molecule Man there was no information giving us extra information on how powerful they were. But is it crazy to assume that they were throwing around vast energies, which could have been capable of destroying quite a bit of existence?
I don't know. That's why I like having narration in comics. The problem however is that the nay-sayers don't even entertain the idea of Molecule Man being vastly powerful. Not his multiversal or even universal self, but come on... Dark Avengers Molecule Man wasn't weak. He just lost to the Sentry, a guy who can resurrect the dead, create life, is immortal and supposedly fought Galactus to a standstill. That's not that bad.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Sharivan
That is that same person who thinks Spiderman is faster than the Silver Surfer

Surfer's agility and combat speed/reflexes generally suck, that is why.

Sharivan
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Surfer's agility and combat speed/reflexes generally suck, that is why.

No, it's retarded. Along with combat speed argument.

Silver Surfer has instances where he literally reacts within nanoseconds, and is able to fight whilst flying bazillions of times the speed of light.

The only thing I am seeing from Enzeru is a bunch of garbage, and misinterpreted scans. He sees something completely different than what's noted. Then applies things such as the shockwaves of someone's punches into the category of reality warping.

Who has ignored all of the scans and context Mr. Master has provided.

One_Angry_Scot
Originally posted by Sharivan
No, it's retarded. Along with combat speed argument.

Silver Surfer has instances where he literally reacts within nanoseconds, and is able to fight whilst flying bazillions of times the speed of light.

The only thing I am seeing from Enzeru is a bunch of garbage, and misinterpreted scans. He sees something completely different than what's noted. Then applies things such as the shockwaves of someone's punches into the category of reality warping.

Who has ignored all of the scans and context Mr. Master has provided.

It appears you don't understand what he was saying about the shockwaves and reality warping. You've missed the point completely there.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Sharivan
No, it's retarded. Along with combat speed argument.

Silver Surfer has instances where he literally reacts within nanoseconds, and is able to fight whilst flying bazillions of times the speed of light.

Then you really shouldn't post here, as nobody would agree with you about Surfer being even close to Spider-Man in the fighting speed department wink

Surfer is slow, that's a simple fact. Gets tagged by everyone - including peak humans like Daredevil.

Sharivan
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
It appears you don't understand what he was saying about the shockwaves and reality warping. You've missed the point completely there.

He was bringing up an instance of strength when we're talking about reality warping. This is something entirely different than that. They do not compare to each other, and you cannot scale from the other.

Then he tries to say we shouldn't go by the narration, and instead go by the destruction we actually see happen. In a dishonest attempt to say Molecule Man was more powerful here. When we do not see that this is the case.

We do not see Molecule Man manipulate anything beyond what's near him here. We do not see him manipulate anything beyond this town. The narration does not contradict what actually happens.

He is trying to say his interpretation is the correct one when what we know happens, what is narrated to happen, and what we see happens says otherwise.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Then you really shouldn't post here, as nobody would agree with you about Surfer being even close to Spider-Man in the fighting speed department wink.

Appealing to the majority. A fallacy used by people who can't come up with a proper argument.

Those people are the same kind of fedora tipping idiots as Tom Brevoort, and anything they say is just as wrong.

You are familiar with jobbing? You know, when a fictional character loses to another in some area even when it makes no sense at all?

When Spiderman beats Firelord? When Wolverine hurts Rune King Thor? When anything like that happens, and a much more powerful character bends over for someone who has no right fighting them?




Only for those that ignore the stupidity of comic book writing, and its known inconsistencies.

The only way this makes sense is if Spiderman has any feats that show that he is able to fight at quadrillions of times the speed of light or something.

Otherwise, it is garbage.



Case-by-case basis.

Do any of these characters have any instances that show them fighting at bazillions of times the speed of light?

The burden of proof is on you in order to show me that this makes any sense, and isn't the garbage writing that it is.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Sharivan
Appealing to the majority. A fallacy used by people who can't come up with a proper argument.

Those people are the same kind of fedora tipping idiots as Tom Brevoort, and anything they say is just as wrong.

You are familiar with jobbing? You know, when a fictional character loses to another in some area even when it makes no sense at all?

When Spiderman beats Firelord? When Wolverine hurts Rune King Thor? When anything like that happens, and a much more powerful character bends over for someone who has no right fighting them?

You're just sweet, aren't you stick out tongue

That makes you the only non-idiot on the site, then?

So Surfer is jobbing 99.9% of the time, iyo? laughing out loud

And how is that relevant to Norrin simply not being fast, huh? And technically, it was King Thor, not RKT yet.

Sharivan
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You're just sweet, aren't you stick out tongue



I am not the one trying to say the Silver Surfer is slower than freaking Spiderman.

http://i.imgur.com/1j5guiu.jpg

Pictured: Apparently slower than Spiderman.



You sound like one of those people who would unironically bring up that time Norrin was beaten by a bunch of Mexicans, and put in chains.



As these instances are completely retarded, and ignore everything that the Silver Surfer has ever accomplished.



So, a technicality is more important to you than coming up with an actual argument?

Good to know.

This does not change how idiotic it was.

StiltmanFTW
Like it or not, on average Surfer fails to react to shit that Spider-Man literally sees in slow-motion.

And it won't change any time soon...

iceman24567
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Like it or not, on average Surfer fails to react to shit that Spider-Man literally sees in slow-motion.

And it won't change any time soon... Not with that attitude it wont no expression

StiltmanFTW
thumb up

Sharivan
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Like it or not, on average Surfer fails to react to shit that Spider-Man literally sees in slow-motion.

Show me any instance where Spiderman moves within the timeframe of a nanosecond.

Just one instance.

Go ahead.



Maybe on whatever alien world you live on but this is phucking America.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Sharivan
I am not the one trying to say the Silver Surfer is slower than freaking Spiderman.

http://i.imgur.com/1j5guiu.jpg

Pictured: Apparently slower than Spiderman.



You sound like one of those people who would unironically bring up that time Norrin was beaten by a bunch of Mexicans, and put in chains.



As these instances are completely retarded, and ignore everything that the Silver Surfer has ever accomplished.



So, a technicality is more important to you than coming up with an actual argument?

Good to know.

This does not change how idiotic it was.
That's an illusion BTW.

Sharivan
Originally posted by abhilegend
That's an illusion BTW.

Which one the Mexicans or King Thor getting hurt by Wolverine? I thought the latter was an alternate timeline.

Sharivan
If you're referring to the Fear Eater it doesn't just do illusions. It takes a person's fear, and physically manifests them.

Silver Surfer was actually transported to earth, had to break out of a barrier, and those shackles. That was part of overcoming the Fear Eater, and if he didn't do that he would have died.

The "illusions" of a Fear Eater can actually hurt and destroy you. Daredevil was the only one not subject to them because he was the "man without fear." So, there was nothing they could manifest.

How does that make this defunct?

abhilegend
Originally posted by Sharivan
Which one the Mexicans or King Thor getting hurt by Wolverine? I thought the latter was an alternate timeline.
The fear eater. Originally posted by Sharivan
If you're referring to the Fear Eater it doesn't just do illusions. It takes a person's fear, and physically manifests them.

Silver Surfer was actually transported to earth, had to break out of a barrier, and those shackles. That was part of overcoming the Fear Eater, and if he didn't do that he would have died.

The "illusions" of a Fear Eater can actually hurt and destroy you. Daredevil was the only one not subject to them because he was the "man without fear." So, there was nothing they could manifest.

How does that make this defunct?
That was entirely an illusion except being teleported to earth. The fear eaters later appeared in Dr Strange and it was made clear that they were just creating an illusion.

Daredevil has a nanosecond feat as well.

http://i.imgur.com/ZpsLYUq.png

And that's more believable than Surfer.

thumb up

Sharivan
Originally posted by abhilegend
The fear eater.

So, you're an idiot?

I am curious does this have anything to do with how you were destroyed at CBR? I know you enjoy keeping a grudge for years on end. Which is pathetic considering how inept CBR itself is.

That, and there's your PTSD in regards to every Superman versus Silver Surfer thread. As well as every Superman vs Thor thread.



No, it wasn't. The way the illusion works is that the person under its influence is still moving around when it happens. They see it, feel it, and can be hurt by it. It can even lead to their death if they do not overcome it.

Just take for example when Captain America was under the influence of a Fear Eater. They're not unconscious when this happens.



No, what was made clear was that they were actually deadly and had to be banished to another dimension because if they weren't there would have been corpses everywhere in Manhattan.



I know what you're talking about, and it's not what you think it is. That's processing information not movement within a time-frame. Which is what you're comparing it to now.



Point me towards where, in this scan, that Daredevil actually even moves. This is a processing feat. Not a reflex feat. He doesn't even actually move at all in this time-frame.

Have you even read this?

abhilegend
Originally posted by Sharivan
So, you're an idiot?

Nice opening statement.



Destroyed? You sure know how to distort something. I was banned when they couldn't keep up and I destroyed Pendaran.



You are the one to talk.





I've destroyed more surfer and Thor fanboys than I care to remember boy.





Idiot.

http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/28971087_DRSTR39_FearEaters.jpg http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/28971088_DRSTR39_FearEaters2.jpg


Look at all those moving people.



They are all experiencing the illusion. Just look at the Ragnarok which happened to Thor. And how he turned Thing into normal.

http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/28971203_MCP3_Thing_1.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/28971204_MCP3_Thing_2.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/28971205_MCP3_Thing_3.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/28971206_MCP4_Thor_1.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/28971207_MCP4_Thor_2.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/28971208_MCP4_Thor_3.jpg http://s6d2.turboimg.net/t1/28971209_MCP4_Thor_4.jpg




And that they were simply creating an illusion. You forgot to mention that.





The same thing as Surfer. Surfer was trapped in an illusion. Nothing more.





Point me to the scene where Surfer actually moved in real time and not in an illusion.



I've read every surfer appearance kid. Here is one more nanosecond comment.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/85165/2051181-lmv_vs_anih.png
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/85165/2051183-lmv_vs_anih1.png
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/85165/2051186-lmv_vs_anih2.png

Quasar>Surfer and Gladiator in speed, right?

Sharivan
Originally posted by abhilegend
Nice opening statement.

It's better than anything you have said.



As in he took apart all of your arguments, noted what lies and misinterpretations you had, then everyone else on the forum did the same.

Which is sad because you got crushed by a bunch of idiots.



Okay then, provide an example.

Since you know me so well.



Now you sound as if you're a redneck. You kiss your sister with that mouth? On second thought, I don't want to know.



Not even original.



Those people were just being possessed by the Fear Eaters. You do know that's what they have to do before they take advantage of their fears?

The scans you posted here yourself take note of this.



Yes, and do you see how they're both in the same exact positions as they were in their respective illusions? The Thing is standing after forcing the Fear Eater out of him. Thor is laying in the same exact position as he was in the illusion.

This proves my point.

Thank you for providing the evidence for me.



No, I didn't. I repeatably referred to it as a deadly illusion that they act out, and have to overcome otherwise it can murder them.

This is why I am noting the fact they're not unconscious. They're fighting through it.



It's not the same thing. The Silver Surfer is actually moving during the illusion. Just like Captain America, and just like the Thing. Thor wasn't because he was on his deathbed in his illusion.



The illusions were happening in real time, and whenever the rest of the heroes woke up from it they were in the same exact position they were in the illusion. You even posted the scans yourself.



Thank you for providing yet another instance that shows that all of these characters can react within nanoseconds.

As taken from the last scan there.

"That monster didn't give us a nanosecond's grace."

The context is referring to all of them here.

Not just Quasar.

I was right you don't read the scans you post because you keep giving me all the ammunition I need here.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Sharivan
It's better than anything you have said.

Ooh, should I burn or something?

You have memorized every internet cliche it seems.



Maybe you live in the bizarro world kid. That would explain your inability to read and comprehend simple logic.



I'm arguing with one right now it seems.





"Superboy created an entire pocket universe."



That's the thing. I don't know you and still I know enough about your idiocy.





That's it? Where are your cliches kid?





I know. I don't want to waste my originality on you.





Just like Thor, surfer and Thing were possessed by them? They were making them hallucinate as well.

Gasp!



Hahaha, the oldest cliche on netz.




And how exactly?



laughing out loud





Yes, its an illusion. As in not real. But somehow the same creature using the same power created illusions for Thor and Thing and real life energy draining shackles for Surfer.

Nice going kid.



Yes, in their mind. Not in reality as the illusion is all in their minds.





It was all an illusion in his mind. Just like the asteroid eater who died of fright after he expelled all his stored air in its lung.





Haha, only you can interpret the scans so wrongly. The illusions were all in their minds. That's why Thor calls it a fever dream.





Only Quasar did. He drained all of them to create the shield without them even noticing.



Yes, the ever faithful hyperbolic statement.



You are seriously an idiot. Quasar was the one who drained all of them and created a shield which protected all of them with none of the others even able to react.



facepalm

Did you even read the scans you ****ing goon? Quasar acted and drained all of them because he did not have time to ask for permission.

None of the others could even react to save themselves. That's called speed.

Here, spidey vs an amped silver surfer. Blitzed to shit

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15204500_feat1fight1ze9.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15204501_feat1fight3sv5.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15204502_feat1fight4gt7.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15204503_feat1fight5zw6.jpg

abhilegend
And before you cry that Surfer was holding back, here is a explicitly not holding back surfer getting blitzed by Surfer again.


http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/28226899_Webspinners_-_Tales_Of_Spider-Man_004_-_10.jpg http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/28226900_Webspinners_-_Tales_Of_Spider-Man_004_-_12.jpg http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/28226901_Webspinners_-_Tales_Of_Spider-Man_004_-_13.jpg http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/28226902_Webspinners_-_Tales_Of_Spider-Man_004_-_14.jpg http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/28226903_Webspinners_-_Tales_Of_Spider-Man_004_-_15.jpg http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/28226907_Webspinners_-_Tales_Of_Spider-Man_004_-_18.jpg http://s6d1.turboimg.net/t1/28226909_Webspinners_-_Tales_Of_Spider-Man_004_-_19.jpg

abhilegend
Don't worry, surfer has made a habit of getting blitzed.



http://i.imgur.com/GFx1ftdl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wQz52z2l.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dM7YFfBl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/71PR80ml.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/b3ouxUHl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/y3cmg1nl.jpg


I can't wait for you to argue all of these are PIS.

abhilegend
Anyway, this is a wrong thread to discuss this. There are a lot of thread discussing Surfer's speed.

Bump any and I'll be glad to tear all your arguments to shreds.

Sharivan
Originally posted by abhilegend
Ooh, should I burn or something?

What you should do is go cry to your mother but I am afraid of what your definition of paternal love is.

You might end up doing things I don't want to think about.



No, these are not cliches. Someone correcting you when you misinterpret something is not a cliche. It's what happens in debate.



That would be you. You should stop projecting your own problems onto others abhilegend. It's not healthy, and a sign of mental instability.



I am not the one who is misinterpreting the very scans they are posting.



So wait, you're mad over an argument we had years ago and you're trying to say that is an example of me holding a grudge for years when I have never brought that up since?

You're the one who just did that as we speak.

That wasn't what I claimed either. You are omitting the fact I was talking about the fusion of Kon-El and Jon Kent. The energy being that created a pocket dimension and was casually turning people into Green Lanterns?

You're holding a grudge against me over something you can't even remember properly?



No, that wasn't me being an idiot. That was me explaining in triplicate that you were wrong. That you know hold a grudge against me for years later.

You freaking nutcase.



They're busy telling the local authorities I have a stalker.



You say this as if you had any originality to begin with. You have a gross misconception of yourself.



Yes, and your scans clearly show that when a Fear Eater manifests a person's fears they act them out. You have already seen it yourself. Now you're just being willfully ignorant.



It's not a cliche on the internet. You have been corrected so much by others that you think it is. This is going beyond just sad now.



That they're acting out the illusions, and actually moving as they do inside of them. I have told you already.



Now you see, what you just did here?

That's an internet cliche. Not giving a proper response, and just saying "lol" or using an emote is the most cliche thing you can do on the internet.



It was in a highly realistic illusion that might as well have been real. That would have killed them if they didn't overcome it. Which led to them actually acting it out, and being in the positions they were when they did so.

I have been clear on this.



Which they act out in the real world, and we see that when they break out of the illusions.



Why are we even talking about the Asteroid Eater now? The people who die of the Fear Eater do so because of whatever fear they had. Whatever illusion they experienced. You are literally just copying and paraphrasing a summary of what someone else made.

http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/marvel_comics_presents_1_silve.shtml

Seriously, word-for-word "expel its air."

http://i.imgur.com/ovVPJUN.jpg

Which also made note to show that Silver Surfer was in outer space, and escaping from earth just like he was in the illusion.



It doesn't matter if it was in their minds. They were acting it out, and it was happening in real time. When they finally broke out of it they were in the same position as they were in the illusion.



You're not understanding what happened there. Quasar is saying they didn't have a nanosecond, and that if they did they could have saved those other people. What Quasar did happened in less than that time.

What he said after that was that if they had a nanosecond they all could have saved them.



Nanosecond is not hyperbolic. It is a specific time-frame. It is a billionth of a second. This is like saying 0.03 seconds is hyperbolic.



No, what Quasar is saying if they all had more time they could have saved the others. They however weren't given the nanosecond they needed to do this. This happened in less than that time-frame which they needed.

You see, this is why I question your reading comprehension. You're not even realizing that Quasar is saying he did this in less than a nanosecond.



I did, and Quasar noted that they all could have saved the others if they had a nanosecond.

They didn't. They had less than that.

You're the one not understanding this.

Sharivan
Originally posted by abhilegend
Anyway, this is a wrong thread to discuss this. There are a lot of thread discussing Surfer's speed.

Bump any and I'll be glad to tear all your arguments to shreds.

Sorry, I am not like you.

I do not dig up and restart threads from a long time ago because of some hilarious trauma suffered over an internet argument of all things.

That would be you.

As made clear by the fact you're still sore over the last argument we had years ago.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Sharivan
Sorry, I am not like you.

I do not dig up and restart threads from a long time ago because of some hilarious trauma suffered over an internet argument of all things.

That would be you.

As made clear by the fact you're still sore over the last argument we had years ago.
That's obvious from the start.

erm

Nice going Dr Phil. You can always start a new thread as you're so good at posting simply inane things.

Finally someone to fight on CBR's behalf.

Sharivan
Originally posted by abhilegend
And before you cry that Surfer was holding back, here is a explicitly not holding back surfer getting blitzed by Surfer again.

-snip-

Okay, you want to play this game.

http://i.imgur.com/DRHMTQa.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/wDfyWZN.jpg

Since apparently you're incapable of being objective, and don't mind garbage writing in the least bit? You must be fine with this.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Don't worry, surfer has made a habit of getting blitzed.

-snip-

I can't wait for you to argue all of these are PIS.

Superman is obviously incapable of detecting Batman by your own logic.

http://i.imgur.com/lPXVNPb.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/scOjCYK.jpg

Sharivan
Originally posted by abhilegend
That's obvious from the start.

erm

So, you're not even trying to hide the fact you're horribly traumatized over internet arguments and are openly admitting you're an obsessive lunatic?

Your concession is accepted.



That would be you because I was the one who just explained why you were wrong, and you are not even bothering to understand why.



Straw man.

I have insulted both you and CBR in this argument. I am not doing this for anyone.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Sharivan
Superman is obviously incapable of detecting Batman by your own logic.

http://i.imgur.com/lPXVNPb.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/scOjCYK.jpg

It's the Batman. What did you expect?

1. http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/28322244/Batman_2016-_002-018.jpg.html
2. http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/28322246/Batman_2016-_002-019.jpg.html
3. http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/28322248/Batman_2016-_002-020.jpg.html

Sharivan
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It's the Batman. What did you expect?

1. http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/28322244/Batman_2016-_002-018.jpg.html
2. http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/28322246/Batman_2016-_002-019.jpg.html

It's stupidity is what it is.

There is no particular explanation for it most of the time besides the fact that "he's Batman." Against someone who can literally hear and see you on other side of the world. Whose vision allows him to see nearly anything, and that includes ghosts.

StiltmanFTW
+ 3. http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/28322248/Batman_2016-_002-020.jpg.html

Comics. That's what it is.

Sharivan
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
+ 3. http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/28322248/Batman_2016-_002-020.jpg.html

Comics. That's what it is.

That's my point.

Comic books are prone to stupidity like this, and I don't pretend it's not stupid in regards to Superman.

I have no idea why abhilegend wants this so badly. This isn't even a Superman vs Silver Surfer thread.

He could at least hold himself to the same standards I do for Superman. I am not saying "Silver Surfer beats Superman blah, blah, blah."

abhilegend
Originally posted by Sharivan
What you should do is go cry to your mother but I am afraid of what your definition of paternal love is.



Whoa, now mommy cliches? Easy there Internet warrior.


Are you 5 years old? Serious question.

Did I run over your puppy or something? Where's this hostility coming from kid?

Whatever you say power ranger. I call what I see.



That would be you. You should stop projecting your own problems onto others abhilegend. It's not healthy, and a sign of mental instability.



Again with "No you" comments? Are the cliches ever going to end here?

Yeah, that's what is happening here. Quasar saying "us" means everyone acted in nanosecond.

How do you manage to live with this much brilliance?

I have a good memory. You asked for an example and now I'm holding a grudge because I have a good memory?

You must be fun at parties.

See what I said about stupidity and unable to read simple scans? Again in evidence.

That argument never stops being funny.

Grudge about what kid? You being unable to read? Nobody can hold a grudge about that.


laughing out loud

You're like a Bizarro Carver. Keep living in a dream. That's always fun.

What a compelling argument.

Really? Who would stalk someone like you?

It's not good to project yourself on others kid.

Only in their mind. Not in real life. Hence all those frozen people.

That's nice of you to defend those who got destroyed against me kid. But don't worry, someone would do the same for you as well.

Except they don't. If you had a brain, you could see that as well. But first it was Fear Eater creating real life constructs and now just illusions, eh? Funny how you got corrected here, right?

Enlighten me kid.

What can I say, I just thought it was appropriate for a walking cliches poster like you. Did that hurt?

Hahaha, oh that's just brilliant.

Not because of the illusions. People die of fright.

You're clear? Just go to your first post in this thread regarding this kid.

Do we? This is all from their own perspective. The only time it is not, we see them frozen in one place.
Yeah, just ignore the only creature who actually died in the story and create our own theories. That always works!!!!

Hahaha. A singular phrase is copying and pasting. Never fail to amuse kid.

You got me kid. One phrase copy and pasting means your entire argument is copy paste.

Yes, Fear Eater teleported him near Earth. Anything else you want to know?

But it does. They are only experiencing an illusion. Not acting on them.

Nobody else acted in "less than a nanosecond." Only Quasar did. How can you even think about anyone else acting in that time frame?

That's simply asinine.

There is no they. Only Quasar acted in that time frame. That's why everyone thanks him.

Characters randomly shouting nanosecond is a hyperbole. They don't have time to measure the duration of time which is left for am action.

Yes and only he acted in that time frame. How are you even reading that and getting at such an asinine conclusion?

And that's why it is a complete hyperbole. Quasar doesn't has superspeed.



Again with this shit? Quasar acted alone. There is no other who saved the team.

Hahaha, oh you buffoon.

Flip flop some more.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Sharivan
Okay, you want to play this game.

http://i.imgur.com/DRHMTQa.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/wDfyWZN.jpg

Since apparently you're incapable of being objective, and don't mind garbage writing in the least bit? You must be fine with this.




Are we talking about Superman's combat speed now? Because there is context to that.

I will let you on that when you hit puberty.

Whoa, Batman totally blitzed Superman there. See kid how Superman treats Batman at superspeed.

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/KMCPhilosophia/battlefieldblitzbats1.jpg

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/KMCPhilosophia/battlefieldblitzbats2.jpg

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/KMCPhilosophia/battlefieldblitzbats3.jpg

Heck, he can blitz Amazo with the speed of entire JLA.

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/KMCPhilosophia/speedblitzamazo1.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/KMCPhilosophia/speedblitzamazo2.jpg

You're welcome kid.

Sharivan
Originally posted by abhilegend
Whoa, now mommy cliches? Easy there Internet warrior.

No, this is not internet warrior. Internet warriors are those e-thugs who act tough.



That's not a serious question. You know what the answer is going by my vocabulary, and the way I handle myself.



It's coming from the fact you're being a stubborn brick wall, and the fact you're refusing to listen.



Which isn't very reliable since you seem to have a distorted understanding of reality.



You're the one who started them? I called you out, and noted the context you got wrong. Then you proceeded to plug your ears with wax.



No, Quasar said that the monster didn't give them a nanosecond's grace. As in they did not have that time. They had even less. If they did they could have saved the rest.



It's a curse. I have to live every day knowing no one else will ever be as great as I am. It's something I just have to live with.



I asked for an example when I ever held a grudge over something for a long time. You provided an example of something that was on your mind that I never brought up in the past year.



Ayup, I am the one who brings the beer. It's kinda mandatory.



Care to point out exactly what I am ignoring because I have been doing nothing but note things you have overlooked.



Your obvious mental illness is the farthest thing from funny. You should seek immediate help.



The fact that you're still sore over something that clearly happened, and of which I just noted that it did?

When I asked you to provide an instance of myself holding a nonsensical grudge? You know, what you're doing right now.



Yet, you're saying I am prone to cliches when you repeatably do this?



Carver is more reasonable than you are. That's how inconsolable you are.



It's far more compelling than anything you have said.



You apparently since you seem fixated on an argument we had years ago.



Yet, you're saying that I am the one going back and forth when you have just copied something I said?



As made clear by the scans I posted, and the ones you posted. They were acting out what they did in the illusion. As seen with the Thing and Silver Surfer.



You have yet to provide any evidence that you actually destroyed them because from what I saw those idiots managed to thrash you.



I never said they made constructs. I said they manifested a person's fears, and had a physical influence on them. That could kill them if they didn't overcome it.

Which they did.

I was never corrected. You simply did not understand what I was trying to say. That they weren't just illusions, and had enough influence that it was deadly. That they acted them out. That they had to fight through them.



I already did.

You have not been listening.



It made me yawn.

It was so lack luster it nearly put me to sleep. You can't insult yourself out of a paper bag let all alone amuse others.



That's the freaking case. You saw the scans yourself. How can you be this willfully ignorant?



They died as a direct result of the illusions, and the Fear Eaters feeding upon them. They literally eat someone's fear until they die, and to beat them you have to defeat your fears.



My first post was able how the Sentry wasn't able to actually able to reality warp beyond the range of a city. Well, actually a town as Mr. Master noticed.



When do we see Silver Surfer and the Thing frozen in place? When do we see Thor frozen in place? They're in entirely different positions after they fight through their fears.

I posted the scan showing Silver Surfer fighting off the Fear Eater, and then being in outer space. Just as he was in the illusion. You provided the rest.



That's what you're doing right now, and you didn't provided a scan. Just a summary someone else made that you paraphrased, and that I found.

So, I actually got that for you.

The die as a result of the illusions. Which do this. It's not just shock. It's the Fear Eaters parasitically feeding from them.



It was to illustrate the fact you don't have the issue on hand, and are going off of summaries.



How does that eve work? I have yet to do anything you have or paraphrase from a summary someone else made.



That's not what it is showing in the scan. That's where Silver Surfer is right after he fought through illusions. He is in space just as he was when he was under their influence. When he transformed back into normal in the illusion, and then finally broke out.



No, it doesn't. They are not just experiencing it. They are acting through it as seen in the scans both I and you posted.



I did not say that. I said Quasar did. Then noted that they could have saved those people if they had a nanosecond. Which they didn't. As noted by Quasar afterwards.



I did not claim otherwise.



I wasn't that was you misreading what I said, and getting what I meant entirely wrong.



It would be if that's what I claimed.

I didn't.



There is, and it's in reference to saving those people. This is not in reference to what Quasar did. Which happened in an even tinier timeframe.



Quasar moved in less than a nanosecond. When he said nanosecond he was talking about that if they had one nanosecond? They could have saved those other people.



My point is going entirely over your head right now, and you're not recognizing. Instead you're seeing something entirely different.



No, it is a specific timeframe. A billionith of a second. You can't argue othetwise.



He's Quasar. He would know what a freaking nanosecond is like, and has cosmic awareness on top of that.



That's not the conclusion that I am reaching. You are not understanding what I am trying to say, and not understanding what happened.



Oh my ****ing god.

So, don't tell me. You're one of those people who go by databooks, and established power-sets?

Instead of what characters actually do?



Again you're not understanding what I am trying to say, and are dismissing my argument based on a straw man.



What deadly wit you have.

I am impressed.



I am not the one flip flopping.

Sharivan
Originally posted by abhilegend
Are we talking about Superman's combat speed now? Because there is context to that.

Since you felt inclined to turn this conversation away from the topic of the Sentry into Silver Surfer and Thor.

You only have yourself to blame.

I just did the same thing you have been doing with Silver Surfer. The difference is that I am honest enough to acknowledge garbage writing when I see it. If you note the rest of what I said, and my tone.

I did this in order to illustrate the fragility of your own reasoning and behavior.



That's hilarious coming from someone who acts with the maturity of a psychopathic manchild.

Glad you're not even going to bother because I am sure the mental gymnastics would induce an aneurysm in anyone nearby.

I worry for their health.



Didn't say that.

I said going by your logic Superman is incapable of detecting Batman. As Batman consistently hides from him.

This is you not reading what I have said again.



I wasn't talking about super-speed when I mentioned Batman. As I have already noted you are bad at actually reading someone's posts.



Don't try to feign maturity when we're both nerds debating fictional characters on an internet forum.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Sharivan
Since you felt inclined to turn this conversation away from the topic of the Sentry into Silver Surfer and Thor.

You only have yourself to blame.

I just did the same thing you have been doing with Silver Surfer. The difference is that I am honest enough to acknowledge garbage writing when I see it. If you note the rest of what I said, and my tone.

I did this in order to illustrate the fragility of your own reasoning and behavior.



That's hilarious coming from someone who acts with the maturity of a psychopathic manchild.

Glad you're not even going to bother because I am sure the mental gymnastics would induce an aneurysm in anyone nearby.

I worry for their health.



Didn't say that.

I said going by your logic Superman is incapable of detecting Batman. As Batman consistently hides from him.

This is you not reading what I have said again.



I wasn't talking about super-speed when I mentioned Batman. As I have already noted you are bad at actually reading someone's posts.



Don't try to feign maturity when we're both nerds debating fictional characters on an internet forum. laughing out loud

So harsh yet so true.

Sharivan
Originally posted by quanchi112
laughing out loud

So harsh yet so true.

Well, it is the truth and I am not ignorant of the fact I am a nerd with weird hobbies.

-Pr-
Guys, back on topic please.

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