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...?
Mine would be when he said Shaak Ti's mastery of Makashi was equal to that of Count Dooku's IIRC, felt like hanging myself

The tirades about Yoda's shittiness as a duelist are pretty horrifying.

The Shaak/Plo > Maul/Dooku video was also cancerous. There's heaps more that I don't want to remember.

Hoth > Bane.

Yeah lmao. Hoth > Bane

Their names.

Every single sentence they utter, is nothing short of an absolute masterpiece in terms of Star Wars debating. This is particularly true for Jensarrai1, and his critical analysis of Yoda. A totally unique perspective on a character who is laregly un-scrutinized.

Really? What he says about Yoda is kinda shitty tbh. Jensaarai complains about Yoda's flips and twirls during combat, but how else is he going to compete? He's knee high to a grasshopper for God's sake so he has to jump up and flip to make it to someone's lightsaber!

I was kidding Ching.

Thank goodness. I didn't what to think

Dumbest thing Antoine Bandele has ever said?

Jensaarai saying Dooku is not top tier.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Hoth > Bane.
Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Yeah lmao. Hoth > Bane
That is definitely one of the worst, but I'd say Tholme dances circles around Zannah and stabs her in the back before she knows what the hell is going on is even worse.

Oh yeah, pure cancer.

Shaak Ti doing as well as she did against Bane in Evan's new video is also pure cancer.

Ti is easily better at handling pain than Bane. Eeeeasily

Like even Kas'im would take Shaak. Shaak has no business going against DOE Bane.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Like even Kas'im would take Shaak. Shaak has no business going against DOE Bane.

The dumb thing was that he couldn't seem to make up his mind if he was using DoE Bane or some amalgamation of all versions since he used facts exclusive to all the versions at some points.

That Palpatine has no skill as a swordsman.

Originally posted by |King Joker|


mmm

Originally posted by Selenial
Honestly, if anyone says I still have work to do, I'll start the thread up again.

That the green light, Joker?

I've been waiting three weeks for someone to actually give it.

Originally posted by Selenial
mmm



That the green light, Joker?

I've been waiting three weeks for someone to actually give it. I may be BFFs with DMB, but I definitely have an open mind. Convince me Shaak Ti defeats Kas'im, Selenial!

Originally posted by Darth Thor
That Palpatine has no skill as a swordsman.

Yeah, that was cringeworthy.

Originally posted by SunRazer
The Shaak/Plo > Maul/Dooku video was also cancerous.

wut

Evannova's tiering system as stated by him in a youtube comment:

Republic/Clone Wars Era

This list Encompasses Overall Combative Viability. So, Saber Skills, Power and Skill in the Force, and Tactical Viability.

Tier 1: Yoda, Mace Windu, Darth Sidious.

Tier 1.5: Count Dooku.

Tier 2: Obi-Wan Kenobi, Plo Koon, Shaak Ti, Anakin Skywalker.

Tier 2.5: Ki-Adi Mundai, Depa Billaba, Sora Bulq, TPM Darth Maul.

Tier 3: Kit Fisto, TCW Darth Maul, Saesee Tinn, Agen Kolar, Eeth Koth, Qui-Gon Jinn, Adi Galia.

Tier 4: (High Caliber Knights and Masters) Luminara Unduli, Rahm Kota, Quinlan Vos, Tholme, K'Krunk.

Tier 4.5: (Average-Mid Jedi Knights and Low level Masters) Ronhar Kim, Master Tiplee, Savage Opress( He gets to Tier 4.5, ONLY because of his physical advantage, if he didn't have that, he would be Tier 6.)

Tier 5: Average Jedi Knights.

Tier 6: Average Pawdwans.

Tier 7: Rank Amateur.

lel

Gross.

A few:
- Vader and Plo are equals in terms of dueling, while Vader is superior to Yoda
- Yoda is poor duelist
- Palpatine is poor duelist
- Tholme > Zannah
- Ti = Dooku in terms of dueling

Also, ret(ard)i4 should be among them. His stupidity and lack of brain puts him in the same league with them.
Dooku's and Maul's skill < Ti's and Koon's teamwork is still one of best

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Evannova's tiering system as stated by him in a youtube comment:

Republic/Clone Wars Era

This list Encompasses Overall Combative Viability. So, Saber Skills, Power and Skill in the Force, and Tactical Viability.

Tier 1: Yoda, Mace Windu, Darth Sidious.

Tier 1.5: Count Dooku.

Tier 2: Obi-Wan Kenobi, Plo Koon, Shaak Ti, Anakin Skywalker.

Tier 2.5: Ki-Adi Mundai, Depa Billaba, Sora Bulq, TPM Darth Maul.

Tier 3: Kit Fisto, TCW Darth Maul, Saesee Tinn, Agen Kolar, Eeth Koth, Qui-Gon Jinn, Adi Galia.

Tier 4: (High Caliber Knights and Masters) Luminara Unduli, Rahm Kota, Quinlan Vos, Tholme, K'Krunk.

Tier 4.5: (Average-Mid Jedi Knights and Low level Masters) Ronhar Kim, Master Tiplee, Savage Opress( He gets to Tier 4.5, ONLY because of his physical advantage, if he didn't have that, he would be Tier 6.)

Tier 5: Average Jedi Knights.

Tier 6: Average Pawdwans.

Tier 7: Rank Amateur. oh it's not that bad

Originally posted by Kurk
oh it's not that bad

Wtf has Plo Koon done to put on par with Kenobi? Lmao Eeth Koth on par TCW Maul... Absolute shit

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Tier 1: Yoda, Mace Windu, Darth Sidious.

Tier 1.5: Count Dooku.

Tier 2: Obi-Wan Kenobi, Plo Koon, Shaak Ti, Anakin Skywalker.

Tier 2.5: Ki-Adi Mundai, Depa Billaba, Sora Bulq, TPM Darth Maul.

Tier 3: Kit Fisto, TCW Darth Maul, Saesee Tinn, Agen Kolar, Eeth Koth, Qui-Gon Jinn, Adi Galia.

Tier 4: (High Caliber Knights and Masters) Luminara Unduli, Rahm Kota, Quinlan Vos, Tholme, K'Krunk.

Tier 4.5: (Average-Mid Jedi Knights and Low level Masters) Ronhar Kim, Master Tiplee, Savage Opress( He gets to Tier 4.5, ONLY because of his physical advantage, if he didn't have that, he would be Tier 6.)

Tier 5: Average Jedi Knights.

Tier 6: Average Pawdwans.

Tier 7: Rank Amateur.

Tbf, those are the only bad ones. Remembering these are tiers, not equal placements.

People on this forum have come out with far worse.

Sora Bulq and Depa ahead of Jinn, TCW Maul and Fisto? :/

How is TPM Maul = Depa acceptable, lol?

How is Koon being Kenobi level acceptable?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
That Palpatine has no skill as a swordsman. lool is this real?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
How is TPM Maul = Depa acceptable, lol? Originally posted by Emperordmb
How is Koon being Kenobi level acceptable?

Top and bottom levels of tiers, tbh.

Originally posted by Sinious
lool is this real?


Yep. Something about him only winning fights because of his speed, but he actually waves his sword like someone who doesn't know what he's doing.

Originally posted by Selenial
mmm



That the green light, Joker?

I've been waiting three weeks for someone to actually give it.

There really shouldn't be, but link me when it's done

Well Sidious is stated to be awesome with a Saber but have we seen it? The duels he fought in have been thanks to speed :/

TPM Maul is higher than TCW Maul, and both are in lower tiers than Koon/Ti. F***ing disgusting lmao.

You could say that about every duel can you not? Speed is apart of dueling.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Well Sidious is stated to be awesome with a Saber but have we seen it? The duels he fought in have been thanks to speed :/
He was matching Yoda well enough.

He was grimacing :/ Yoda didn't look overly distressed until Sidious' force power was on show

I have a game. Say something that these guys said that you actually agreed with and thought was a good point. Has to be non-trivial.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I have a game. Say something that these guys said that you actually agreed with and thought was a good point. Has to be non-trivial.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I'd say Tholme dances circles around Zannah and stabs her in the back before she knows what the hell is going on

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
He was grimacing :/ Yoda didn't look overly distressed until Sidious' force power was on show
That only makes my point further. The fact that Yoda was able to match and possibly exceed Sidious's physicality, but Sidious was still able to fight on par with him as a duelist for a while proves that Sidious is insanely technically skilled.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I have a game. Say something that these guys said that you actually agreed with and thought was a good point. Has to be non-trivial.

So I just went through numerous videos in which I thought the outcome would be obvious or at least well examined. Jensaarai has Jerec "crushing" Traya in the Force, Galen Marek being "beaten so badly it's anticlimactic" vs Dooku. I finally found something I agree with when he said Vader wouldn't ever lose to Plo Koon. Sad that it takes something that abundantly obvious....

The only thing I like about Evan is his 'The Story of' vids and Jensaarai has some good lightsaber form description ones.

Btw, Hoth>Bane might not be a stupid idea, since Hoth is just unknown.

Originally posted by McP
Btw, Hoth>Bane might not be a stupid idea, since Hoth is just unknown.
From what we've seen though it's pretty stupid. By that line of thought, you could say claiming Hoth>Sidious isn't stupid since Hoth is unknown.

And even so, Hoth is confirmed to be a less skilled duelist than Raskta (the greatest duelist in the Jedi Order) and Kas'im (the greatest duelist in the Galaxy at the time of his death) and Bane held an edge against both of them in lightsaber combat during their duels at a few points.

Originally posted by Sinious
lool is this real?

No.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
That Palpatine has no skill as a swordsman.

Except that they never said that. EVER.

If you actually paid attention to the video they repeatedly acknowledge that Palpatine is highly skilled. They do deride him a few times yes, but those are clearly in jest. They were simply pointing out that Palpatine is NOT unbeatable and is not the greatest duellist ever as so many claim.

I will admit that Jen and Evan do sometimes say dubious stuff, but most of the time people here grossly exaggerate what they said to make them look far worse than they really are.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
You could say that about every duel can you not? Speed is apart of dueling.

Give the Flash a sword and pit him against Duncan MacLeod. Flash will easily win because of his super-speed. Does that mean the Flash is an amazing swordsman? Of course not! Just being really fast does not mean you are a great duellist. What makes you a great duellist is HOW you win, i.e. by being more skilled/having better tactics than the opponent.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
And even so, Hoth is confirmed to be a less skilled duelist than Raskta (the greatest duelist in the Jedi Order) and Kas'im (the greatest duelist in the Galaxy at the time of his death) and Bane held an edge against both of them in lightsaber combat during their duels at a few points.

Not really. Bane "held an edge" against Kas'im because he'd spent months memorising his every move. Likewise he "held an edge" against Raskta because of his orbalisks making his limbs and torso lightsabre-proof. Without orbalisks and against a foe he has no familiarity with he wouldn't be nearly as good.

Oh great... I wonder if this is Evan himself ^

Originally posted by McP
Btw, Hoth>Bane might not be a stupid idea, since Hoth is just unknown.

Saying an unknown is better than a high quality known like Bane is stupid. Especially when the video doesn't acknowledge that Hoth's an unknown and Evan/Jen argued that based on the miniscule amount of info on Hoth that he's better than Bane with massive amounts of speculation and reaching.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Saying an unknown is better than a high quality known like Bane is stupid.

Except when you do it, babe. Then it makes sense.

Originally posted by chilled monkey



Except that they never said that. EVER.

If you actually paid attention to the video they repeatedly acknowledge that Palpatine is highly skilled. They do deride him a few times yes, but those are clearly in jest. They were simply pointing out that Palpatine is NOT unbeatable and is not the greatest duellist ever as so many claim.

I will admit that Jen and Evan do sometimes say dubious stuff, but most of the time people here grossly exaggerate what they said to make them look far worse than they really are.






Oh they did. Pointing out how Sidious was just waving his swords about against Maul like someone who doesn't know what they're doing.

And that the only reason he still wins most fights is because of his HUGE force advantage.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Oh they did. Pointing out how Sidious was just waving his swords about against Maul like someone who doesn't know what they're doing.

That is fact. Watch that fight and you can see for yourself that a lot of the time Palpatine is just flailing around like a moron. You'd never see Blade or Duncan MacLeod doing that.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
And that the only reason he still wins most fights is because of his HUGE force advantage.

That is also correct.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Wtf has Plo Koon done to put on par with Kenobi?

He whooped Asajj, including disarming her, while one of his arms was busted.

I heard that that Koon vs Ventress feat was overblown and more of a draw.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I heard that that Koon vs Ventress feat was overblown and more of a draw.

Getting a draw while he had a busted arm is a MAJOR achievement. Imagine how he'd fare in tip-top condition.

Originally posted by McP
- Yoda is poor duelist

If you actually checked your facts, Jen has admitted he was wrong about that. He has since given Yoda a ton of respect.

Originally posted by McP
- Palpatine is poor duelist

See above

Originally posted by Nephthys
Evan/Jen argued that based on the miniscule amount of info on Hoth that he's better than Bane with massive amounts of speculation and reaching.

Nothing wrong with using imagination and creativity. It's more fun that way.

Actually there is something wrong with using your imagination for a versus video, lol.

Chilled, so you admit you were retarded when you arguing Palpatine isn't a master duelist? Further yet, you admit you are just a drone of Jen, regurgitating what he says like a prostitute?

Like even despite Hoth being largely unknown, objective facts about the duelists in his time pretty much disprove the notion of him being the best duelist of the era, and based on observed feats it's clear that Bane is the best duelist of the era.

So even the unknown card doesn't excuse Hoth here, since claiming Hoth>Bane in lightsaber combat contradicts established lore.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Actually there is something wrong with using your imagination for a versus video, lol.

How? A Vs. match is like a story. Something you put thought and consideration into. You need to use imagination and creativity to consider all the different factors in play.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Actually based on observed feats it's clear that Bane is the best duelist of the era.

No it's not. Bane's "feats" are mainly due to him having a lot of familiarity with his opponents or the "unfair" advantages the orbalisks provide. He's a really good duellist sure, but not the best of the era.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Chilled, so you admit you were retarded when you arguing Palpatine isn't a master duelist?

Uh pardon? I acknowledged that he was highly skilled. I just pointed out the facts. He WAS flailing around like a moron and he DOES win battles due to Force power more than anything else.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Further yet, you admit you are just a drone of Jen, regurgitating what he says like a prostitute?

I'm merely correcting people and explaining why they're mistaken.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
How?

Making shit up is a terrible way to argue something.

That Yoda is a one-trick pony for sure

Plo and Shaak get way too much credit on these idiots' videos.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Plo and Shaak get way too much credit on these idiots' videos.

Shaak Ti is a great duelist and an exceptional Force User, but these guys take it to another level.

Originally posted by Balta Skywalker
Shaak Ti is a great duelist and an exceptional Force User, but these guys take it to another level.

She's about below Kenobi and Plo.

Originally posted by TheNuisanceBird
She's about below Kenobi and Plo.

I never said she was better than them.

Originally posted by Balta Skywalker
I never said she was better than them.

I know I was describing where she stood.

Originally posted by TheNuisanceBird
I know I was describing where she stood.

OH

Originally posted by SunRazer
Plo and Shaak get way too much credit on these idiots' videos.

LOL! Typical Sith fanboy.


Originally posted by Nephthys
Making shit up is a terrible way to argue something.


First, they aren't "arguing" anything. There's no sense of anger or hostility. They aren't trying to sway people over to anything. Their videos are just meant for fun.

Second, they aren't "making **** up." All of their speculations have at least some basis on what is shown "on-screen." Plus sometimes you have to speculate a little. One reason I'm such a big fan of Jensaarai1 is his "Vindican vs. Luminara" video. He was able to construct an entire analysis of a character that's only appeared in one trailer. That shows an amazing degree of imagination and creativity.

Going back to my first point, Vs. match-ups between Character A and Character B are meant to be FUN. People shouldn't take them too seriously.

Chilled wiping the floor with the Sith haters. Damn.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I have a game. Say something that these guys said that you actually agreed with and thought was a good point. Has to be non-trivial.

1) Darth Traya is overhyped and not as powerful as many people think. Don't get me wrong, she IS really powerful but the thing most people point to is when she sucked three Jedi Masters dry. Jensaarai1 very sensibly pointed out that in that case she had spent five minutes meditating and gathering her power beforehand, meaning she can't just Force Suck anybody at the drop of a hat.

It shows very clearly that you can't just go by feats alone. You need to look at the context of how and when said feat occurred.

2) Qui-Gon would most likely defeat Ven Zallow because he has customised Ataru to better suit his needs while Zallow uses the textbook version. This means Jinn could quickly suss out his moves.

This is an excellent point for two reasons. First it shows how even though two people on paper use the same fighting style they are not necessarily identical since one may have modified it while the other remains standard. Two, it shows an element people often overlook; tactics. People often forget that the winner isn't always the "most powerful" or "most skilled." Sometimes the winner is decided by who's smartest. Knowledge is power.

There are others but that's enough for now.

Like Sel says, Traya used the Force prior to entering the council chambers and then to TK the council. The idea that she prepped for the drain is just a speculation with no evidence and is contradicted by her using the Force prior to her drain.

This also applies with Zallow apparently just using textbook Ataru, which is again just fanon garbage.

I could easily counter that Qui-Gon's Ataru would be less effective than Zallows because of his age, which limits his stamina and physicals. An argument that is actually supported in evidence.

And these guys ARE forming arguments to support their ideas. The fact that so many of these arguments are built around faulty assumptions and flat out lies is why they lack a shred of credibility, along with their clear incompetence.

Originally posted by Balta Skywalker
OH

Balta has once said Shaak Ti equals Maul in speed and overall physicality lol

I just wanna see Jensaarai's next video. He should collaborate with Evan again. They low value Maul and Anakin on a consistent basis.

Shaak Ti is fodder. She's died three times for **** sake

Maul gets absolutely roasted by all of them. Antoine has him beating Galen which isn't that hard to believe but has him losing to Shaak ****ing Ti and PLO KOON lmfao...

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Maul gets absolutely roasted by all of them. Antoine has him beating Galen which isn't that hard to believe but has him losing to Shaak ****ing Ti and PLO KOON lmfao...
Antoine completely retracted that opinion tbh

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Shaak Ti is fodder. She's died three times for **** sake

I find that a little amusing and rather bad tbh, bad because it's like they didn't know what to do with her because they retconned her death twice, before settling on TFU. I mean one death retcon, ok that's fine, they wanted to let her live to do something, but doing it twice?

Well, three times. It recently got retconned back to the original version.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well, three times. It recently got retconned back to the original version.

Well yeah 3 times, the 3rd being TFU unless there was a 3rd retcon death I'm unaware of.

But source saying that it got retconned back to it's original version?

I know Yoda's vision has Anakin's blade stabbing her from behind, but is that noted as what actually happened somewhere? Unless that's what you're referring to.

Originally posted by TheNuisanceBird
They low value Maul and Anakin on a consistent basis.

By "low value" you of course mean "don't overhype." Jen and Evan present sensible and logical analyses of Maul and Anakin. Just because they acknowledge their shortcomings and don't paint them as completely unbeatable does not equal low valuing.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Like Sel says, Traya used the Force prior to entering the council chambers and then to TK the council. The idea that she prepped for the drain is just a speculation with no evidence and is contradicted by her using the Force prior to her drain.

This also applies with Zallow apparently just using textbook Ataru, which is again just fanon garbage.

I could easily counter that Qui-Gon's Ataru would be less effective than Zallows because of his age, which limits his stamina and physicals. An argument that is actually supported in evidence.

And these guys ARE forming arguments to support their ideas. The fact that so many of these arguments are built around faulty assumptions and flat out lies is why they lack a shred of credibility, along with their clear incompetence.

I'll get back to you.

Jesus...

Chilled, explain to me the Plo Koon > Anakin and Maul and Shaak Ti > Anakin and Maul. Give me your best arguments.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Chilled, explain to me the Plo Koon > Anakin and Maul and Shaak Ti > Anakin and Maul. Give me your best arguments.

I'll need to re-watch a few videos to give you a fully thought out answer to that. In the meantime, off the top of my head, it basically comes down to the fact that Anakin isn't much of a planner and focuses too much on offence, often becoming highly reckless as his fights go on. Also, while he does integrate Force powers into his lightsabre sequences he generally only does so after his opponent does. Even then he uses them in very blunt, unsophisticated methods.

Compare that to, for example, Ti using the Force to tie Grievous's cloak to a train. When do we ever see Anakin using that kind of cleverness and subtlety? Don't get me wrong, Anakin is smart, but he's more of a tactical opportunist than a real planner.

Put simply, Ti and Plo are more balanced and well-rounded, better planners/tacticians and make better use of their Force powers.

Again, this is just a rough answer. I'll provide more details later.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Like Sel says, Traya used the Force prior to entering the council chambers and then to TK the council. The idea that she prepped for the drain is just a speculation with no evidence and is contradicted by her using the Force prior to her drain.

There IS evidence. Give me an example of Traya sucking dry three Jedi Masters when she was caught completely unawares and hadn't had time to gather her energies. Oh wait, you can't.

Also her using the Force prior to that does nothing to diminish the fact that she'd had time to gather her power. It's not like that gathered focus would disappear instantly

Originally posted by Nephthys
This also applies with Zallow apparently just using textbook Ataru, which is again just fanon garbage.

LOL! Watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdgmH9Vv2-I

Heavy emphasis on speed and movement? Check. Aggressive and offence-focused? Check. Integrated unarmed strikes? Check. Heavy use of acrobatics? Check. Leaping and flipping all over the place? Check.

Textbook Ataru right there.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I could easily counter that Qui-Gon's Ataru would be less effective than Zallows because of his age, which limits his stamina and physicals. An argument that is actually supported in evidence.

You're not making any sense. The entire reason Qui-Gon re-tooled his style was to compensate for his decreased stamina. That means his personal Ataru style MUST be more energy-efficient or what would be the point? Put simply the individual (in this case Qui-Gon) is "at fault," not the style itself.

You might as well say, "that guy lost because he has asthma so his style is less effective." The "style" is not at fault if the individual has some kind of physical shortcoming.

Anyway, the real point isn't "my style's better than yours" (which is nonsense anyway). It's the fact that Qui-Gon has a better understanding of Ataru (which he would need to re-tool it like he did) and so would quickly suss out Zallow's more basic skills so he could better anticipate his actions.

If Zallow is textbook then so is Yoda... Pretty much all Ataru masters are textbook, it's the way all Jedi were taught

Originally posted by chilled monkey
I'll need to re-watch a few videos to give you a fully thought out answer to that. In the meantime, off the top of my head, it basically comes down to the fact that Anakin isn't much of a planner and focuses too much on offence, often becoming highly reckless as his fights go on. Also, while he does integrate Force powers into his lightsabre sequences he generally only does so after his opponent does. Even then he uses them in very blunt, unsophisticated methods.

Compare that to, for example, Ti using the Force to tie Grievous's cloak to a train. When do we ever see Anakin using that kind of cleverness and subtlety? Don't get me wrong, Anakin is smart, but he's more of a tactical opportunist than a real planner.

Put simply, Ti and Plo are more balanced and well-rounded, better planners/tacticians and make better use of their Force powers.

Again, this is just a rough answer. I'll provide more details later.
Skywalker isn't reckless. He's literally just so good he doesn't need to try:

"Anakin's style has changed completely between Episode II and Episode III. He now no longer cares. He knows he's unbeatable. He's far more dangerous than anybody in the universe." --NG

Skywalker integrated telekinesis into his attacks during the novelization portrayal of the Mustafar fight, and the comic portrayal of the Invisible Hand fight.

Also, the fact they integrate it isn't relevant anyway since Skywalker is vastly more powerful than them. If he wanted to, he could crush their necks.

No Ant! Let me argue him

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
If Zallow is textbook then so is Yoda... Pretty much all Ataru masters are textbook, it's the way all Jedi were taught

Exactly. That's one of Jen's most valid and logical criticisms of Yoda and Jedi in general.

To clarify, yes I know Jen has made some very dubious views on Yoda's skills, but if you take the time and really pay attention to what he says, he does have some legitimate points as well.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Skywalker isn't reckless. He's literally just so good he doesn't need to try:

"Anakin's style has changed completely between Episode II and Episode III. He now no longer cares. He knows he's unbeatable. He's far more dangerous than anybody in the universe." --NG

NO-ONE is unbeatable. People who THINK they are are setting themselves up for a fall. Look at Buffy Summers in the episode "Fool for Love." She was nearly killed by a regular vampire because she got cocky and thought there was no way it could possibly happen.

And guess what? Anakin was beaten by Kenobi.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Skywalker integrated telekinesis into his attacks during the novelization portrayal of the Mustafar fight, and the comic portrayal of the Invisible Hand fight.

And your point is? I already said that.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Also, the fact they integrate it isn't relevant anyway since Skywalker is vastly more powerful than them.

Power isn't everything. A smarter and/or more skilled opponent will often defeat a more powerful one.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
If he wanted to, he could crush their necks.

Except he wouldn't since he prefers to beat his foes in lightsabre combat. That's another important point, mind-set. Just because he CAN do something, that doesn't mean he WILL.

Chilled, that Yoda video is gross. He starts off with some substance and it's looking good, then the rest is just a massive rant filled with personal opinion and theories backed up by nothing. He has even admitted this in later videos...

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Chilled, that Yoda video is gross. He starts off with some substance and it's looking good, then the rest is just a massive rant filled with personal opinion and theories backed up by nothing. He has even admitted this in later videos...

Very true. I was mainly talking about the Yoda vs. Malek video. Sorry, I should have been clearer.

The quote, written by the same guy who wrote and choreographed all the scenes that your gods analyzed, didn't state Anakin thought he was the best.

Gillard said he knew he was the best.


Due to him being hindered. It wasn't his standard performance.


Not when the power gap is simply too extreme (ex. Anakin vs Plo or Shaak). Anakin's more skilled too, so it doesn't matter.


As if Skywalker wouldn't resort to his Force power if he's on the losing end of a fight.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Chilled, explain to me the Plo Koon > Anakin and Maul and Shaak Ti > Anakin and Maul. Give me your best arguments.

Okay, just re-watched the "Plo Koon vs. Darth Vader" video. It reiterates many of my original points. Essentially Plo is a better tactician than Anakin and is more well-rounded and balanced.

The best example would again be Plo's duel with Asajj. Not only was he able to fight toe-to-toe with her despite having a busted arm, he was able to control the fight and use it as a distraction while accomplishing his mission.

Also while he is highly skilled, Anakin is too much of an offensive juggernaut, just charging in and trying to batter his way through everything. Plo would be able to meet his assault head-on and counter everything he throws at him while Anakin grows increasingly reckless as his blitzkrieg attack fails.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The quote, written by the same guy who wrote and choreographed all the scenes that your gods analyzed, didn't state Anakin thought he was the best.

Gillard said he knew he was the best.

I don't care. The fact remains that it's a hyperbolic statement that is not meant to be taken literally (and if you do take it literally than I'm sorry but that is REALLY dumb).

Plus, Gillard also claimed that in the Anakin vs. Kenobi duel nothing was wasted. Every move served a purpose. That is clearly complete nonsense as that duel was full of wasteful moves that served no purpose at all.

Statements like that should always be taken with a grain of salt.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Due to him being hindered. It wasn't his standard performance.

A technicality. The fact is that the guy who "knows he's unbeatable" was in fact, beaten. Meaning he is in fact not unbeatable.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Not when the power gap is simply too extreme (ex. Anakin vs Plo or Shaak).

Not really. There was a huge power gap between Bane and Kas'sim, yet Kas'sim was able to completely block Bane's Force Wave. Also, I remind you that Anakin was far from unlocking his full potential.

How is Plo a better tactician? Reti comes to this conclusion because Koon is one of the high generals which is irrelevant in combat, military strategy is not worth mentioning as it has ZERO to do with 1v1 combat.

Anakin is notably stronger than Ventress to start with physically plus Jar'Kai is famous for lacking strength PLUS Anakin's augmentation is far superior to Asajj's. Don't be so sure Anakin can't overpower Koon which Savage did to an extent.


Yes, Anakin never reached him potential obviously... But he still has far superior raw power tha Plo. I will concede that Plo has greater control and refinement but think of this
If Plo's raw force power is a 6 and Anakin's is a 10, no amount of refinement will help.

I don't think Plo has a better control over anything than his emotions, in comparison to Anakin. :/

Honestly, arguing Plo has any place contending with Skywalker -- nevermind beating him -- is suicidal.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
How is Plo a better tactician? Reti comes to this conclusion because Koon is one of the high generals which is irrelevant in combat, military strategy is not worth mentioning as it has ZERO to do with 1v1 combat.

Beg your pardon but not so. As Jensaarai1 pointed out, in Plo's duel with Asajj he masterfully controlled the fight by keeping her occupied and stopping her from reinforcing her troops while his took control of the facility.

Yes that was not a purely 1v1 scenario but the point is that Plo was able to not only hold his own but stay focused on the big picture and use the duel as a tool to achieve the real purpose. Would Anakin have done the same thing in his boots? Heck no, he'd have focused entirely on beating Asajj.

Put simply anyone who has the kind of ingenuity Plo displayed will be much better at controlling the fight and at manipulating the opponent. Luring the enemy to locations of their choosing, using their surroundings etc. rather than just trying to beat them down.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Anakin is notably stronger than Ventress to start with physically plus Jar'Kai is famous for lacking strength PLUS Anakin's augmentation is far superior to Asajj's. Don't be so sure Anakin can't overpower Koon which Savage did to an extent.

Not really. Savage didn't "overpower" him, just yanked his breath mask off while he was distracted.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Yes, Anakin never reached him potential obviously... But he still has far superior raw power tha Plo. I will concede that Plo has greater control and refinement but think of this
If Plo's raw force power is a 6 and Anakin's is a 10, no amount of refinement will help.

This is where we must agree to disagree. Captain America for example, has contended with and even beaten foes whose raw power was far greater than his own.

Originally posted by chilled monkey


Not really. Savage didn't "overpower" him, just yanked his breath mask off while he was distracted.





He'd already overpowered Koon before that.

Or do you think Koon was on his knees because he was just taking a break?

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Beg your pardon but not so. As Jensaarai1 pointed out, in Plo's duel with Asajj he masterfully controlled the fight by keeping her occupied and stopping her from reinforcing her troops while his took control of the facility.

Yes, he controlled the fight given how he... got kicked, got driven against the fall and landed a leeway Force Push on her once.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Beg your pardon but not so. As Jensaarai1 pointed out, in Plo's duel with Asajj he masterfully controlled the fight by keeping her occupied and stopping her from reinforcing her troops while his took control of the facility.

Yes that was not a purely 1v1 scenario but the point is that Plo was able to not only hold his own but stay focused on the big picture and use the duel as a tool to achieve the real purpose. Would Anakin have done the same thing in his boots? Heck no, he'd have focused entirely on beating Asajj.
Anakin did that in the TCW movie with Dooku... years before his prime... against an opponent much better than Ventress. To distract Dooku while Ahsoka got Jabba's son back to his palace.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Put simply anyone who has the kind of ingenuity Plo displayed will be much better at controlling the fight and at manipulating the opponent. Luring the enemy to locations of their choosing, using their surroundings etc. rather than just trying to beat them down.
Anakin did use his surroundings to his advantage on Naboo in his duel against Dooku.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Not really. Savage didn't "overpower" him, just yanked his breath mask off while he was distracted.
So you expect us to believe Plo Koon's tactics will usually grant him the edge over a much more skilled and powerful duelist... when Plo allowed himself to get distracted and thereby lost to the forcecast proclaimed "tactless brute with no tactical sensibilities" Savage Opress despite having aid from several clone troopers?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Anakin did that in the TCW movie with Dooku... years before his prime... against an opponent much better than Ventress. To distract Dooku while Ahsoka got Jabba's son back to his palace.

Shhh... Anakin is an overly emotional train wreck who would lose to any fighter with an IQ above 100.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Plus, Gillard also claimed that in the Anakin vs. Kenobi duel nothing was wasted. Every move served a purpose. That is clearly complete nonsense as that duel was full of wasteful moves that served no purpose at all.

This is the problem with Jen and his groupies. "That duel was full of wasteful moves that served no purpose at all." welcome to every single duel in star wars and nearly every single movie out there. It's meant to "look good." not be an accurate representation of a real fight. If you judge a character's ability to fight via the choreography every single Jedi that has been depicted on screen is terrible. From the TOR trailers to the modern movies.

Ya know one thing about that, I swear I recall Lucas or someone saying that what is seen on screen, isn't really how the fights are actually shown as.

As far as like, how fast the Jedi/Sith are actually moving, that while fighting they are actually faster than what the camera shows, but they can't show them fighting as fast as they are wanting due to limitations.

Anyone have the quote or whatever to what I'm talking about?

I recall it being a thing..