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Straightforward. I've maintained that what the character achieved relative to the time studied, the resources at his disposal, and the fact that he consumed the essence of thousands of Sith Lords... Makes him exceptionally lackluster compared with other characters.

What do you think? Is he impressive or pathetic?

No.

Pretty pathetic given the resources at his disposal, yes.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No.

Persuasive.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Pretty pathetic given the resources at his disposal, yes.

Agreed.

Why does this make him lackluster though?

Look at what other characters accomplished in a fraction of the time and without 8000 Sith Lords. Like Sheev. Or Krayt.

As a character or a powerhouse?

Powerhouse. I think it's been established that he's not much of a character.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Look at what other characters accomplished in a fraction of the time and without 8000 Sith Lords. Like Sheev. Or Krayt.

TBF Valkorion spent a lot of time ****ing around on Zakuul.

Originally posted by Nephthys
TBF Valkorion spent a lot of time ****ing around on Zakuul.

Krayt and Sheev had busy schedules too.

So immortality? Or just general accomplishments?

Poorly written, definitely.
Couldn't he just mind dominate Satele, the Jedi Council, and the Republic leaders?
Why is there a war going on in the first place?

Originally posted by Zenwolf
So immortality? Or just general accomplishments?

All the above.

Ah. Although my memory is a little blank, so can't really judge.

Tbh he seems to have achieved immorality and an entire empire worshipping him and serving his will. He praises himself for having "the patience of stone and will of stars". He didn't spend decades same as a character in their 30s, 40s etc. with the worry of limited time and resource. So, saying that he sucks cause he gets overshadowed by characters like Sheev in time efficiency is kinda unjust since Palpatine isn't written as an immortal character (especially since he is originally a movie character), who at the same time is arguably the smartest and the most successful character in the lore.

Can't disagree that Vitiate's a ripoff and his story is ridiculous compared to what we see. I enjoy his dialogue though.

Valkorions children are overall pretty ok.

Sidious' son was a grotesque mutant who had 3 eyes and was named Triclops.

I think we know who's more pathetic.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Valkorions children are overall pretty ok.

Sidious' son was a grotesque mutant who had 3 eyes and was named Triclops.

I think we know who's more pathetic.

There was no confirmation that Triclops was the son of Palpatine IIRC, that was just a rumor. The source where it says he is, doesn't confirm it either, just more rumors really.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Look at what other characters accomplished in a fraction of the time and without 8000 Sith Lords. Like Sheev. Or Krayt.

What does this even mean? His "8000 sith lords" accomplishment was made to do one thing, and that's render him immortal... Nothing else. Immortal and super powerful.

Also building one empire from scratch, then building a second one from scratch, are amazing accomplishments.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
His "8000 sith lords" accomplishment was made to do one thing, and that's render him immortal... Nothing else. Immortal and super powerful.

Guess you can scratch out "nothing else", lol.

Or add it to the end of the sentence? Lol

I can see your meaning Tempest and while I do agree the premise seems sound, it doesn't really hold water too well past the "immortality" part of his existence. At that point, think about it, his and anyone else's priorities would and DO change. He achieved what countless Sith who, while they may have been stronger in certain areas or for the scant few even near him in strength, never achieved what he did so he doesn't have to claw and scrape at every possible way of gaining power anymore. Essentially it comes down to: I have eternity to build a mountain, I can take my time and go by pebbles if I wish and still get there. But you may only have a year. Thus you are going to find the quickest, most efficient way of building that mountain as possible. I can choose to do the same with inifitely more time, or go slower and safer and eventually surpass you anyways.

Ur pathetic temp

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Or add it to the end of the sentence? Lol

As usual, your stupidity astounds.

Originally posted by Vixas
I can see your meaning Tempest and while I do agree the premise seems sound, it doesn't really hold water too well past the "immortality" part of his existence. At that point, think about it, his and anyone else's priorities would and DO change. He achieved what countless Sith who, while they may have been stronger in certain areas or for the scant few even near him in strength, never achieved what he did so he doesn't have to claw and scrape at every possible way of gaining power anymore. Essentially it comes down to: I have eternity to build a mountain, I can take my time and go by pebbles if I wish and still get there. But you may only have a year. Thus you are going to find the quickest, most efficient way of building that mountain as possible. I can choose to do the same with inifitely more time, or go slower and safer and eventually surpass you anyways.

Originally posted by Sinious
Tbh he seems to have achieved immorality and an entire empire worshipping him and serving his will. He praises himself for having "the patience of stone and will of stars". He didn't spend decades same as a character in their 30s, 40s etc. with the worry of limited time and resource. So, saying that he sucks cause he gets overshadowed by characters like Sheev in time efficiency is kinda unjust since Palpatine isn't written as an immortal character (especially since he is originally a movie character), who at the same time is arguably the smartest and the most successful character in the lore.

Can't disagree that Vitiate's a ripoff and his story is ridiculous compared to what we see. I enjoy his dialogue though.

An intriguing defense. A couple of things, though: Prior to the ritual at Nathema, Vitiate apparently dedicated himself to Force scholarship for an entire century. There's no evidence to suggest that he's anything but fodder for the likes of Sheev and Krayt until after the ritual and a thousand years more.

That aside, is there any evidence to suggest that Valkoriate was half-assing his ambitions post-ritual?

Isn't it true that Vitiate spent most of his time secluded by himself experimenting with the Force and wanking instead of running his empire? Besides also spending half his time on Zakuul experimenting with creating the perfect society.

But yeah, the fact is that he had eternity if he wanted it and chose to build up a civilisation nearly from scratch in a manner that requires a great amount of time.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Isn't it true that Vitiate spent most of his time secluded by himself experimenting with the Force and wanking instead of running his empire? Besides also spending half his time on Zakuul experimenting with creating the perfect society.

But yeah, the fact is that he had eternity if he wanted it and chose to build up a civilisation nearly from scratch in a manner that requires a great amount of time.

And is there any evidence to suggest that Valkoriate was personally involved for any meaningful stretch of time? You'll recall that he was primarily hands-off after landing on Dromund Kaas, retreating to study the Force while the Dark Council and other leaders actually rebuilt.

He either spent thousands of years accumulating a knowledge and power over the Force that barely surpassed Plagueis and fell short of Palptine, or he spent thousands of years building an empire that pales in comparison to Sheev or Krayt's. Either way he's a disappointment, and if any of the aforementioned names had been given his power and resources, they would have become gods.

Well he wasn't totally hands off, since it was notable when he actually stopped all contact with the Dark Council for a significant period of time. He was still involved with the process and met with the Council to give them directives. He just wasn't involved with the active day to day running of things. The Council would obviously be in charge of building shit or leading troops into battle.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well he wasn't totally hands off, since it was notable when he actually stopped all contact with the Dark Council for a significant period of time. He was still involved with the process and met with the Council to give them directives. He just wasn't involved with the active day to day running of things. The Council would obviously be in charge of building shit or leading troops into battle.

Hands-off =/= total absence of contact. Vitiate essentially kicked back and let others do the work for him on Dromund Kaas while he concerned himself with more "important" work: i.e. rituals and experiments.

Yeah, thats kind of what an Emperor does.

I mean Sidious didn't build the Death Star or go out and wreck rebels. He didn't build his fleet or training his stormtroopers. He just ordered it to happen and oversaw it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, thats kind of what an Emperor does.

I mean Sidious didn't build the Death Star or go out and wreck rebels. He didn't build his fleet or training his stormtroopers.

Sure.

It's another way Vitiate's story emulatesrips off Palpatine's, see

But you can still have a hands-on administrator who, while not picking up the hammer and nail himself, is constantly involved with the process.

Vitiate? Not so much.

Because he was dealing with Force shit and living large and making babies on Zakuul. Both of which did give him great benefits. His Force knowledge has made him almost invincible and lead to his Galaxy ritual and Zakuul conquered the galaxy more or less.

Its not like Vitiate just wasted his time.

I'm not saying he was lounging around, smoking weed and eating Cheetos lol.

Hey, who knows.

Originally posted by Trocity
As usual, your stupidity astounds.

As usual, the point went over your head. Also, not sure you know what 'astounds' means but I think it's cute when a dumb adolescent desperately attempts to sound smart using big boy words

Your rage edits are what's cute here. And yes, it is rather astounding that you continue to approach chilled_monkey levels.

Lmao

Originally posted by Trocity
Your rage edits are what's cute here. And yes, it is rather astounding that you continue to approach chilled_monkey levels. how would you know about my "rage" edits unless you're sitting there furiously hitting refresh ala TI?

At least you're consistently dumb.

I guess the most obvious giveaway would be the "Lasted edited by" indicator under the comment. I doubt graduating high school is a requirement to be a warehouse worker, but that doesn't mean common sense should elude you... unless your anger is clouding your judgement, of course.

Originally posted by Trocity
I guess the most obvious giveaway would be the "Lasted edited by" indicator under the comment. I doubt graduating high school is a requirement to be a warehouse worker, but that doesn't mean common sense should elude you... unless your anger is clouding your judgement, of course. hmmm but you said my edits were "rage" edits, indicating you saw what i originally wrote, which also means you were hitting refresh like an angry child. Also, what's judgement? Is this getting too complicated for you?

https://media.giphy.com/media/145hX7QVWqyili/giphy.gif

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
hmmm but you said my edits were "rage" edits, indicating you saw what i originally wrote, which also means you were hitting refresh like an angry child. Also, what's judgement? Is this getting too complicated for you?

I actually deduced your anger from your second sentence starting with "Also", indicating you had originally posted your first sentence, stewed for a couple minutes in a teeth grinding rage, then thought of something you assumed would be clever. There's that whole "not graduating high school" thing, which you conveniently sidestepped, coming into play again.

Somebody doesnt like Vitiate here

Not pointing towards the opening post author but...

Nobody likes Vitiate.

True, he is shit...

but not everyone makes threads about this

Originally posted by Trocity
I actually deduced your anger from your second sentence starting with "Also", indicating you had originally posted your first sentence, stewed for a couple minutes in a teeth grinding rage, then thought of something you assumed would be clever. There's that whole "not graduating high school" thing, which you conveniently sidestepped, coming into play again. Warehouse has the same bit of unoriginal and unfunny insults for anyone who crosses paths with him on the Internet.

Originally posted by Trocity
I guess the most obvious giveaway would be the "Lasted edited by" indicator under the comment. I doubt graduating high school is a requirement to be a warehouse worker, but that doesn't mean common sense should elude you... unless your anger is clouding your judgement, of course. Warehouse is used to taking it.

Originally posted by Trocity
I actually deduced your anger from your second sentence starting with "Also", indicating you had originally posted your first sentence, stewed for a couple minutes in a teeth grinding rage, then thought of something you assumed would be clever. There's that whole "not graduating high school" thing, which you conveniently sidestepped, coming into play again.

Inability to follow a discussion? Check
Inability to understand the words you are using? Check
Inability to spell the words you're using correctly? Check.
So like i said, consistently dumb

Btw, coming from someone still in high school, i find it amusing you're accusing someone else of not graduating.

Since he did all that and he's still weaker than Palpatine.

Yes, he is.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
An intriguing defense. A couple of things, though: Prior to the ritual at Nathema, Vitiate apparently dedicated himself to Force scholarship for an entire century. There's no evidence to suggest that he's anything but fodder for the likes of Sheev and Krayt until after the ritual and a thousand years more.

That aside, is there any evidence to suggest that Valkoriate was half-assing his ambitions post-ritual?

Naturally, the character is all but non-existent as far as information before the ritual, besides bare-bones facts leading up to it. Though to be frank, I find it highly unlikely that the time-period leading up to it can be hand-waved away as pathetic due to the very fact the Nathema ritual happened and, more importantly, worked.

Keeping in mind the point of my "defense" focuses on the mindset change of someone going from lengthy-but-limited lifespan to what seems to be effective immortality, considering the... priority changes involved, no it's not really pathetic how far he go/has gotten. Especially considering Palpatine has also had a lot of build-up to him with the Banite line all preserving knowledge for him on and on, as well as making sure they all succeeded one-another in power and steeped the Force in so much Dark Side energy Plagueis and Palpatine were able to shift it as they did. Whereas Vitiate/Valkorion is more an example of a "hostile takeover" of say, a corporation, at a decent level then building it up slowly over time. Palpatine inherited the top spot through the preparation of those before him, then built titanically on top of it using what those before him prepared.

in direct response to your last question: yes and no. Given he was working on both the Sith Empire and Zakuul supposedly at once, yes. But if you're looking for a word-for-word, big flashing neon sign version of a quote stating such, then no.

My patience for the same nonsense is running out.

Who the heck keeps reporting shit? Not that I necessarily disagree in this specific instance, however.

KEK.

The truth hurts evidently. hmph

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Who the heck keeps reporting shit? Not that I necessarily disagree in this specific instance, however.

KEK.

I log in here only 2 or 3 days a week... but I try to report every transgresion

Just abide the rules and I will have no reason to report Its not against anybody specificly

Where I come from, rats get clapped, and snitches lay in ditches.

You better watch yourself, friend(s).

threats work poorly in internet

Not a threat, more of a warning.

Still same result pal

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Straightforward. I've maintained that what the character achieved relative to the time studied, the resources at his disposal, and the fact that he consumed the essence of thousands of Sith Lords... Makes him exceptionally lackluster compared with other characters.

What do you think? Is he impressive or pathetic?
It is important to look at the circumstances behind each development.

First, I will address the ritual part.

The objective of the implied ritual was to achieve corporeal immorality for indefinite period! An accomplishment unheard-of up to this time. Centuries later, Darth Plagueis had similar ambitions but his apprentice stopped him.

More notably, it is not easy to manipulate thousands of Sith to participate in a ritual that was essentially a trap for them but they did not realize it. By all accounts, Vitiate had to be extremely charismatic, smart and powerful to pull this off.

Now, coming towards other accomplishments.

Vitiate started from scratch while reconstituting the ancient Sith Empire. Think about finding suitable planets in the wild space, occupying them and developing the capability to extract their natural resources. Building an Empire from scratch is a lot of work. On top of the challenges of building an Empire, Vitiate had to conceal this entire endeavor from the Republic (a galactic superpower that sought to eradicate the Sith).

Palpatine never had to start from scratch. If mechanisms of Rule of Two had not been in affect, he would have been just another politician or an individual with unrealized potential. Anyways, my point is that we don't know how much time would Palpatine need to build an Empire from scratch in Vitiate's shoes. He might have laid the foundation of a civilization during his lifetime but would never had the time to transform it into a galactic superpower, capable of challenging another head-on.

Vitiate understood that the Sith Empire would need centuries to acquire technological superiority over the Republic and challenge it due to limited resources at its disposal. This is why he remained patient for a long period. Any sane leader would, in his shoes.

Look at the examples of Exar Kun, Revan and Sith Triumvirate. They attempted to destroy and/or conquer the Republic but in vain. It was never easy to conquer the Republic through external means. On top of it, Sith were notorious for betraying each other.

However, Vitiate had a backup plan in mind as well. Should the Sith Empire fail to conquer the Republic, there would be another in the queue. Now imagine the effort needed to start from scratch again and build a new Empire that would be kept secret from both the Sith Empire and the Republic until the time was right. This is multi-tasking to the extreme.

----

In the nutshell, I don't think that Vitiate's accomplishments are less impressive than those of others.

I wouldn't say he was pathetic, Valkorion/Vitiate was among the most powerful Force users the galaxy had ever seen, a DE Sidious level Force user capable of far more than any of his contemporaries. He did achieve the reconstruction of the Sith Empire from under the noses of the Jedi, waged a near successful war against the Republic in the Jedi Civil War (using Darths Revan and Malak as proxies), built a SECOND Empire out from under the noses of the galaxy, and single handedly brought both the Empire and the Republic to their knees with his armies in the Eternal Empire. Not to mention being one of the ONLY Sith Lords in history to have achieved immortality. So no, not pathetic.

Originally posted by Vixas
Naturally, the character is all but non-existent as far as information before the ritual, besides bare-bones facts leading up to it. Though to be frank, I find it highly unlikely that the time-period leading up to it can be hand-waved away as pathetic due to the very fact the Nathema ritual happened and, more importantly, worked.

Keeping in mind the point of my "defense" focuses on the mindset change of someone going from lengthy-but-limited lifespan to what seems to be effective immortality, considering the... priority changes involved, no it's not really pathetic how far he go/has gotten. Especially considering Palpatine has also had a lot of build-up to him with the Banite line all preserving knowledge for him on and on, as well as making sure they all succeeded one-another in power and steeped the Force in so much Dark Side energy Plagueis and Palpatine were able to shift it as they did. Whereas Vitiate/Valkorion is more an example of a "hostile takeover" of say, a corporation, at a decent level then building it up slowly over time. Palpatine inherited the top spot through the preparation of those before him, then built titanically on top of it using what those before him prepared.

in direct response to your last question: yes and no. Given he was working on both the Sith Empire and Zakuul supposedly at once, yes. But if you're looking for a word-for-word, big flashing neon sign version of a quote stating such, then no.

You're definitely misrepresenting the support Palpatine got from his predecessors. One of the recent fact files flat out states they were all - even Plagueis - far less concerned with the grand plan than they were their own pursuits. Palpatine more or less did it himself.

Palpatine's accomplishments are extraordinary, all things considered. Valkoriate is much less impressive.

Is his name spelled different ways? I thought it was Valkorian?

It's a portmanteau of Valkorion and Vitiate.