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I know Rebels is supposed to be Vader in his prime, but I haven't seen the confirmation myself. Anybody know where to find the quote/video with the confirmation?

That's film canon, I'm talking about the confirmation frome either Filoni or Pablo Hidalgo saying Rebels Vader is Prime Vader for the nu-canon.

lol, **** no

its in the rebel recon for siege of lothal (2:12):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTkd0MKEm2I&feature=youtu.be&t=2m12s

Getting wrecked by Tano, force pushed by Kanan, and outmaneuvered by Hera in a ship. Seems about right to me. This is Vader's best.

Quanchi, This is also Maul's prime and you know what happened to him

Originally posted by aalyasecura95
its in the rebel recon for siege of lothal (2:12):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTkd0MKEm2I&feature=youtu.be&t=2m12s Thank you very much friend.

I think him soloing a Rebel fleet in Rebels then just a few years later TK Crushing an AT-AT in person, makes it clear he's in his prime around this time period.

Vader taking on a thousand strong rebel army and winning was also pretty legit.

I think in Rebels, they are making him weaker than he is seen in the films.

How's that?

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Quanchi, This is also Maul's prime and you know what happened to him Says who that this is Maul's prime. Provide evidence my confused and clueless amigo. Vader's best is just full of failure despite the backing of a galactic empire and all the resources that come with it.

Tbh SoD is his prime.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I think him soloing a Rebel fleet in Rebels then just a few years later TK Crushing an AT-AT in person, makes it clear he's in his prime around this time period. Yet he failed against Ezra and Kanan and Hera out piloted that loser. Oh Vader this is the best he is. It's laughable.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Tbh SoD is his prime.


What makes you say that?

All the factors that increased his power during TCW are still there in Rebels but enhanced even more.

Plus the official site states he's grown.

Zenwolf, they should show new feats more than just than ones we already know

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Zenwolf, they should show new feats more than just than ones we already know


Fighting evenly against Rebels Ahsoka was actually the best feat he's had in a while.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
What makes you say that?

All the factors that increased his power during TCW are still there in Rebels but enhanced even more.

Plus the official site states he's grown.

The site says he's grown in knowledge, I don't believe it mentions anything regarding power though I might be mistaken.

Regardless it's clear and only logical that he's atrophied both physically and as a duelist.

Originally posted by Darth Truculent
Zenwolf, they should show new feats more than just than ones we already know

By comparison to the movies? He already has shown better everything.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
The site says he's grown in knowledge, I don't believe it mentions anything regarding power though I might be mistaken.

Regardless it's clear and only logical that he's atrophied both physically and as a duelist.


Actually no. Logic clearly dictates he would not have declined. He's the same age as ROTS Mace. Decades younger than Dooku. So there's no logic to that idea.

As a duellist we know that even if he spent the last decade as a psychotic homeless spider-person eating junk, that's he'd still get into the hang of Saber duelling again pretty quickly. But it seems like he's actually made better use of his time this time around. His new Saber Staff he's built suggests he's kept it up.

You didn't address the first part of my post.

I'm pretty sure getting older ( physically degrading ) and being on the run from Imperials ( not having a chance to use the Force or practice with your lightsaber for fear of drawing too much attention ) is a logical reason for Maul atrophying as a combatant.

Except logic dictates that Maul's skills DID degrade and that he made up for this degradation by relying on his enhanced connection to the Force which was confirmed by Filoni and based on his hatred for Obi Wan and desire to gain revenge on him. Now Maul believes Kenobi to be dead like all the other Jedi.

In a Galaxy with no allies, all his remaining family dead, the most powerful Galaxy spanning Empire in history under the control of his master who has made clear he considers Maul a liability I and being hunted by a person he has outright admitted would defeat him in combat I can't imagine Maul has got much drive left other then to survive.

I presume you have a different take on it though?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
You didn't address the first part of my post.


I don't need to considering I never said the site said he'd grown in power.

But it's the only logical conclusion if he has grown. It certainly won't hurt him to grow will it? Or make him decline right?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I'm pretty sure getting older ( physically degrading ) and being on the run from Imperials ( not having a chance to use the Force or practice with your lightsaber for fear of drawing too much attention ) is a logical reason for Maul atrophying as a combatant.



Again, based on what? He's decades younger than Dooku. No older than ROTS Mace. So again Why would age be an excuse for him to decline?

I'd say being on the run from imperials , hiding out, searching for new dark side knowledge, and all info on his Sith enemies, building a new Saber staff for himself... are all far better use of his time than running around on 8 legs eating junk.




Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Except logic dictates that Maul's skills DID degrade and that he made up for this degradation by relying on his enhanced connection to the Force which was confirmed by Filoni and based on his hatred for Obi Wan and desire to gain revenge on him. Now Maul believes Kenobi to be dead like all the other Jedi.

And that hate and desire for revenge is still there. Greater than ever. In fact if anything it's enhanced given the death of his brother and mother. Heck he outright says it to Ezra.

And btw the other factor that enhanced his power was his Sense of Purpose and Focus after he was revived. Now that might have declined in the last 15 years, but it's all changed as soon as he's met Ezra. But we all know he had a purpose for being at the Sith Temple in the first place.

Who said Maul believes Kenobi to be dead? I see a lot of speculation in your argument, which is what's needed tbh, because given Maul's past, there's no logic in him degrading in power at all.




Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
In a Galaxy with no allies, all his remaining family dead, the most powerful Galaxy spanning Empire in history under the control of his master who has made clear he considers Maul a liability I and being hunted by a person he has outright admitted would defeat him in combat I can't imagine Maul has got much drive left other then to survive.

I presume you have a different take on it though?


Urm no drive? What was he doing at the Sith Temple again?

He wasn't searching for a way to defeat the Sith was he?

And as I've already pointed out, his sense of purpose is as great as ever, now that he's encountered Ezra.



My assumption is much more logical, and is backed by Maul's past and the proven ability of older force users.

Whereas I'm not sure what your logic is based on. Nothing concrete methinks.

1. It says he's grown in knowledge which makes sense since he's been hiding out on a Sith temple. And you heavily implied he'd become more powerful as of Rebels since you're saying he's apparently Dooku level now which he certainly wasn't before ( that was either here or the other thread ).

2. Based on the fact that not utilizing an ability will cause it to decline and getting older causes most physical bodies to grow weaker... This is common sense bud.

And still not something that's going to hone his skills with a lightsaber or increase his power with the Force.

3. And yet he has no way to carry out this revenge and hasn't for decades. He's just been waiting for someone to come along that he could manipulate into getting a superweapon that might have given him a chance at doing so and now even that's gone.

And now that purpose is gone. The superweapon that might have given a chance at allowing him to defeat his master imploded itself. Now his only motivation is taking Ezra as a Sith apprentice and the holocron for himself. I don't believe even you think Maul's so delusional that he'd believe those things would allow him to be capable of defeating the Emperor.

... The fact that Order 66 was carried out and nearly all Jedi were killed? I don't know if you've noticed but new canon is pretty lacking in actual living Jedi. Even if Maul does think Kenobi survived he's likely somewhat contented knowing he'll be being hunted down for the rest of his life same as him even if he would want to kill him himself. What you call assumption I call pretty reasoned out conclusions that come from common sense.

4. Waiting for an indeterminate amount of time to manipulate somebody into helping him access a super weapon. He's not actively building a power base, training apprentices or combating his foes because he knows he's not powerful enough to do so.

Sure he was. But he's been waiting decades to do so. His drive is hardly going to be the rage and vengeance fueled passion he had in TCW.

How is his sense of purpose as great as ever when now he doesn't even have a superweapon to potentially combat his master? Do you honestly think he's so delusional that he thinks with Ezra's help he could beat his master? :/

I'm not saying older Force user's can't be powerful. I'm saying there's nothing to indicate Maul's even grown in power.

You'd be wrong as I just explained above though you'll probably inevitably fail to grasp it.

Nova just brought the wood. Common sense ftw. It's like saying Ben Kenobi was in his prime for ****s sake. D. Thor is once again wrong.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Except logic dictates that Maul's skills DID degrade and that he made up for this degradation by relying on his enhanced connection to the Force which was confirmed by Filoni and based on his hatred for Obi Wan and desire to gain revenge on him. Where does Filoni say his skills degraded?

^ I think it's safe to say that tbh... Who knows how long he hasn't fought before getting thrown off a cliff :/

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Where does Filoni say his skills degraded? When did he say his skills improved ??

I'm referring to TCW Maul, as I assume Syn is. Nor am I asking for what's safe to assume, but for what Syn claimed.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'm referring to TCW Maul, as I assume Syn is. Nor am I asking for what's safe to assume, but for what Syn claimed. So you believe Rebels Maul isn't in his prime, correct ?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Where does Filoni say his skills degraded?

He didn't say that they degraded. He said that Maul gained power through his desire to gain vengeance on Kenobi and his master.

They degraded because that's what happens when you don't use skills you've possessed and are an insane gibbering spider for decades...

^ or being in the senate posing as the chancellor for years

Yeah, not seeing the logic I'm afraid. The fact that Maul is able to come from the brink of insanity with his lightsaber skills intact suggests that they had become muscle memory, and the fact that he is one of the most highly trained Sith in history supports this.Originally posted by chingchangwalla
^ or being in the senate posing as the chancellor for years Ironic commentary or unwitting self-sabotage?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yeah, not seeing the logic I'm afraid. The fact that Maul is able to come from the brink of insanity with his lightsaber skills intact suggests that they had become muscle memory, and the fact that he is one of the most highly trained Sith in history supports this.

As per CANON yes?

But anyway regardless.

Power =/= Skill

He can still grow in Power, yet his skill could wane.

But I'm just pointing this out as there seem to be lumping power with skill and it being the same.

Yes as per CANON honeybunch.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yeah, not seeing the logic I'm afraid. The fact that Maul is able to come from the brink of insanity with his lightsaber skills intact suggests that they had become muscle memory, and the fact that he is one of the most highly trained Sith in history supports this.Ironic commentary or unwitting self-sabotage? So wait in Star Wars you don't believe practice and training matter ?? Are you being serious or just joking around ?

Well I'm just making sure, as I've been seeing a lot of weird Canon n Legends mixing lately.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So wait in Star Wars you don't believe practice and training matter ?? Are you being serious or just joking around ? Yes that's exactly what I said, lmao.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yes that's exactly what I said, lmao. Skill requires practice. If someone sits on their ass and doesn't fine tune their skills they are going to be rusty. That's common sense. No one is saying he'd go back to being a novice but he'd need to practice and train to be as sharp as he was once.

I guess Michael Jordan could live in a cave for ten years and be as accurate with the bball as he was before he went in according to you.

Look guys. Let's not be stupid. Training and practicing your skills is obviously important in maintaining them.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Look guys. Let's not be stupid. Training and practicing your skills is obviously important in maintaining them. I notice certain people act like this isn't true when trying to sell their bias. It's laughable. Muscle memory, lol.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I notice certain people act like this isn't true when trying to sell their bias. It's laughable. Muscle memory, lol.

Maul was stated to have acquired new abilities, I'm not sure where the notion that he didn't continue to train came from, but it doesn't make any sense.

facepalm

Good to see the ability to engage critically remains alive and well in these boards.

First of all I'm not dismissing practice and training, in fact, my point is that it is Maul's level practice and training that allowed him to commit his skills to muscle memory. The fact that Maul is able to quickly regain his ability to fight against far more practiced and experienced beings, despite a decade of having never touched a lightsaber on top of undergoing mental trauma being proof of this.

Drawing real world parallels to individuals of superhuman ability as counter-evidence being illogical for obvious reasons.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Maul was stated to have acquired new abilities, I'm not sure where the notion that he didn't continue to train came from, but it doesn't make any sense.

He may have trained on Malachor. But he sure as hell wasn't whipping out and training with his lightsaber when he was on the run from Imperials. The amount of time he'd have to train would be far less then his TPM incarnation or even his TCW one.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
facepalm

Good to see the ability to engage critically remains alive and well in these boards.

First of all I'm not dismissing practice and training, in fact, my point is that it is Maul's level practice and training that allowed him to commit his skills to muscle memory. The fact that Maul is able to quickly regain his ability to fight against far more practiced and experienced beings, despite a decade of having never touched a lightsaber on top of undergoing mental trauma being proof of this.

Drawing real world parallels to individuals of superhuman ability as counter-evidence being illogical for obvious reasons.

And I'm saying that it's far more likely he was as combatively capable as he was due to his power in the Force. Which if we're thinking didn't grow up to Rebels ( which I don't ) leaves Maul at less then even the capabilities he demonstrated in TCW especially when you pair that with his physical body weakening as he grew older.

Saying we can't hold Force users to the basic standard of physicality nearly all living beings in our own universe undergo is blatantly retarded.

Where are these assumptions about Maul's circumstances coming from? On what basis is he "on the run from Imperials" when Sidious made no seeming attempts to hunt him down post-SoD? Where he continues to exist as mere rumour, has seemingly retained control of his asteroid base without Imperial interference and found the time to build himself a new lightsaber?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Where are these assumptions about Maul's circumstances coming from? On what basis is he "on the run from Imperials" when Sidious made no seeming attempts to hunt him down post-SoD? Where he continues to exist as mere rumour, has seemingly retained control of his asteroid base without Imperial interference and found the time to build himself a new lightsaber?
Yeah you'd think if you're on the run from imperials anyways you'd be keeping your survival skills honed.

What? Because it didn't blatantly show Palpatine setting people to hunt Maul down you're saying we should assume he didn't. That's incredibly dumb.

The rebels secure temporary bases all the time. I assume Maul is also fully capable of such. Regardless we don't have the circumstances of how Maul attained this base, only our own assumptions based off of what we've seen in the S2 trailer.

The lightsaber he acquired could simply have been he found on Malachor or perhaps he built it there out of droid parts.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yeah you'd think if you're on the run from imperials anyways you'd be keeping your survival skills honed.

0_o Emp.

Stop and think about this for a second.

If Maul is actively engaging Imperials he's screwed. They'll immediately call for reinforcements, Inquisitors will be after him and Palpatine will once again be made aware of his presence.

He's not going to be combating Imperials. He's going to be in hiding from them.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
And I'm saying that it's far more likely he was as combatively capable as he was due to his power in the Force. Which if we're thinking didn't grow up to Rebels ( which I don't ) leaves Maul at less then even the capabilities he demonstrated in TCW especially when you pair that with his physical body weakening as he grew older.

Saying we can't hold Force users to the basic standard of physicality nearly all living beings in our own universe undergo is blatantly retarded. Uh huh it's not as if Maul became vastly more powerful, and yet he's still contending with the far more practiced Kenobi right out of the gate.

Might he have been a bit rusty? Sure. But then he had plenty of combat experience against lightsaber wielding opponents after his revival in which to compensate for that. It becomes tenuous then to assume he still lacked the saber skill he once possessed, when that is nowhere indicated.

And that's nice, but I never suggested otherwise.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
facepalm

Good to see the ability to engage critically remains alive and well in these boards.

First of all I'm not dismissing practice and training, in fact, my point is that it is Maul's level practice and training that allowed him to commit his skills to muscle memory. The fact that Maul is able to quickly regain his ability to fight against far more practiced and experienced beings, despite a decade of having never touched a lightsaber on top of undergoing mental trauma being proof of this.

Drawing real world parallels to individuals of superhuman ability as counter-evidence being illogical for obvious reasons. So you believe Star Wars characters don't need practice and training to hone their skills and that's just real world stuff. Maul wasn't as sharp as he was when he first came back after his spider legs with his skills. That's about as obvious as it gets. He was still very good just not at the top of his game.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
0_o Emp.

Stop and think about this for a second.

If Maul is actively engaging Imperials he's screwed. They'll immediately call for reinforcements, Inquisitors will be after him and Palpatine will once again be made aware of his presence.

He's not going to be combating Imperials. He's going to be in hiding from them.
1. We know he's a martially obsessed character
2. We know from the fact that he's been gaining new abilities he has the drive to keeping his skills honed
3. We know from the fact that he's been gaining new abilities he has the time for keeping his skills honed regardless of whether or not he's on the run.
4. I can't believe this needs to be said, but the notion that someone on the run/in hiding would have no interest in keeping their fighting abilities honed is the most retarded thing said in this entire thread

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
What? Because it didn't blatantly show Palpatine setting people to hunt Maul down you're saying we should assume he didn't. That's incredibly dumb.

The rebels secure temporary bases all the time. I assume Maul is also fully capable of such. Regardless we don't have the circumstances of how Maul attained this base, only our own assumptions based off of what we've seen in the S2 trailer.

The lightsaber he acquired could simply have been he found on Malachor or perhaps he built it there out of droid parts. In SoD? Or are you referring to the Inquisitors?

We do, he secured it back in the Clone Wars, it's the same asteroid facility where he and Dooku teamed up to fight Windu, Kenobi etc.

Actually it appears to deliberately resemble that of an Inquisitors weapon, so he presumably stole it from one and rebuilt it, so not from Malachor.

How long was Maul stuck on Malachor again?

I want to laugh at his miserable incompetence.

Maul is alive and well my friend. He is currently loving life in the comfort of someone else's tie fighter.

If only there was a novelization for Maul vs Kanan:

"At that moment, Kanan simply decided to win. Before he was unsure of whether or not he actually wanted to win, but at this point he finally became sure he wanted to win instead of debating in his head whether or not Maul winning would be more beneficial to him. So there in the realm where dream becomes reality, Kanan decides Maul needs to fall off a cliff, so Kanan's arm lashed out as thought and action become one, and Maul plummets off the cliff screaming."

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Uh huh it's not as if Maul became vastly more powerful, and yet he's still contending with the far more practiced Kenobi right out of the gate.

Might he have been a bit rusty? Sure. But then he had plenty of combat experience against lightsaber wielding opponents after his revival in which to compensate for that. It becomes tenuous then to assume he still lacked the saber skill he once possessed, when that is nowhere indicated.

And that's nice, but I never suggested otherwise.

I'm saying that it's Maul's increased power that allows him to make up for his atrophied skill. TCW Maul who had just recently regained his memories vs Prime TPM Maul is a fight I think could go either way.

Why would it be tenuous? He's taking part in lightsaber fights and redeveloping his style but that doesn't mean all memory of the techniques and forms and styles he learned are going to come flooding back to him.

"Drawing real world parallels to individuals of superhuman ability as counter-evidence being illogical for obvious reasons." - Beni EatsHisWords Boi, 2016.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
1. We know he's a martially obsessed character
2. We know from the fact that he's been gaining new abilities he has the drive to keeping his skills honed
3. We know from the fact that he's been gaining new abilities he has the time for keeping his skills honed regardless of whether or not he's on the run.
4. I can't believe this needs to be said, but the notion that someone on the run/in hiding would have no interest in keeping their fighting abilities honed is the most retarded thing said in this entire thread

1. Yes, that doesn't make him dumb which he'd have to be to confront Imperial Forces.

2. We don't know what these abilities constitute and it's most likely he did this on Malachor where he wouldn't be found by the Empire for using the Force or drawing his lightsaber.

3. He has the time to do so on Malachor, I agree. Though how honed he can keep them by simply practicing katas is questionable.

4. I'd say the most retarded thing in this thread is you jumping to conclusions about what I meant and then suggesting that Maul would risk being found by Imperials in an effort to keep his skills honed.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
In SoD? Or are you referring to the Inquisitors?

We do, he secured it back in the Clone Wars, it's the same asteroid facility where he and Dooku teamed up to fight Windu, Kenobi etc.

Actually it appears to deliberately resemble that of an Inquisitors weapon, so he presumably stole it from one and rebuilt it, so not from Malachor.

I'm referring to your suggestion that Palpatine did not set minions to hunt for Maul simply because it didn't show him actively doing it.

Going to need the quote that confirms this claim.

Going to need the quote that confirms this claim.

Beni and Dmb agreeing on something?

Has hell frozen over?

Edit. Btw which ever one of you came up with muscle memory is actually right. Kenobi after a few years is able to use his lightsaber like a boss in Comic where he fights Asharad and In Desperate Mission.

Furthermore, after leaving the Jedi years prior, Ferus instinctively uses a lightsaber to varying degrees on Ilium

Anyone who thinks Maul wouldn't have muscle memory clearly knows nothing about Maul. And are ignoring TCW Canon.

I've also not seen 1 bit of proof that he didn't keep up his dueling skill. Only biased speculation.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
1. It says he's grown in knowledge which makes sense since he's been hiding out on a Sith temple. And you heavily implied he'd become more powerful as of Rebels since you're saying he's apparently Dooku level now which he certainly wasn't before ( that was either here or the other thread ).


Tell me how he's grown in knowledge but declined overall.

And don't speculate. I want facts.



Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
2. Based on the fact that not utilizing an ability will cause it to decline and getting older causes most physical bodies to grow weaker... This is common sense bud.

And still not something that's going to hone his skills with a lightsaber or increase his power with the Force.


And yet Maul's history in Canon completely disagrees with you. Look up his revival in TCW.






Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
3. And yet he has no way to carry out this revenge and hasn't for decades. He's just been waiting for someone to come along that he could manipulate into getting a superweapon that might have given him a chance at doing so and now even that's gone


The fact that he was trying to activate that super weapon means he's still actively out for revenge. So your points fail again.





Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
And now that purpose is gone. The superweapon that might have given a chance at allowing him to defeat his master imploded itself. Now his only motivation is taking Ezra as a Sith apprentice and the holocron for himself. I don't believe even you think Maul's so delusional that he'd believe those things would allow him to be capable of defeating the Emperor.

... The fact that Order 66 was carried out and nearly all Jedi were killed? I don't know if you've noticed but new canon is pretty lacking in actual living Jedi. Even if Maul does think Kenobi survived he's likely somewhat contented knowing he'll be being hunted down for the rest of his life same as him even if he would want to kill him himself. What you call assumption I call pretty reasoned out conclusions that come from common sense.


Well it's one thing at a time. Maul states himself he can't take Vader alone. But he sees potential in Ezra, so looks like he's thinking if he can train Ezra then the 2 of them could challenge Vader.

If he succeeds in that then he can focus on Palpatine next.

Besides he's looking for other ways. Like the Sith Holocron.



So let's backtrack:

He has more rage than ever- Check
He still has purpose and focus - Check
He's grown in Knowledge - Check
He's built a new Saber, implying he's kept up his Saber skills - Check.

So exactly what are you basing his decline on? Nothing is the answer.



You're speculating about his lack of knowledge on Kenobi. Maul's rage and focus is simply focused more on the Sith at this time.




Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
4. Waiting for an indeterminate amount of time to manipulate somebody into helping him access a super weapon. He's not actively building a power base, training apprentices or combating his foes because he knows he's not powerful enough to do so.

Sure he was. But he's been waiting decades to do so. His drive is hardly going to be the rage and vengeance fueled passion he had in TCW.

How is his sense of purpose as great as ever when now he doesn't even have a superweapon to potentially combat his master? Do you honestly think he's so delusional that he thinks with Ezra's help he could beat his master? :/

I'm not saying older Force user's can't be powerful. I'm saying there's nothing to indicate Maul's even grown in power.

You'd be wrong as I just explained above though you'll probably inevitably fail to grasp it.


He was patient because he knows he's no match for Vader and the Emperor without a weapon or new apprentice.

No his Rage is greater than ever before. Before his Rage was just due to him not fullfilling his destiny. Now even that rage has partially transferred to Sidious (for abandoning him) as well as the mega rage of seeing his brother and mother killed.

The facts suggest it's highly unlikely he's declined at least. Obviously growth he needs to show proof of. His growth in power is something we've simply been speculating on. But we KNOW he's grown in knowledge, and kept up his Saber skill, so that's not a far out assumption.


As far as Canon history goes I'm right based on Maul's canonical history.

Now sure Rebels might completely contradict that, but until it does the Facts and Canonical history of the character are on my side. Whereas your whole argument seems to be biased speculation, in the direction you would prefer it to go.

You're not using any facts at all. So until Rebels says otherwise, I'm right.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I'm saying that it's Maul's increased power that allows him to make up for his atrophied skill. TCW Maul who had just recently regained his memories vs Prime TPM Maul is a fight I think could go either way.I'm aware of what you're saying, but you're overestimating the extent to which Maul's powers increased. A side by side comparison of Force feats shows his increment in power is not that large and early-TCW Maul is barely capable of using the Force to retrieve his lightsaber.

The fact that despite these circumstances he's capable of rapidly overwhelming Kenobi in Revenge and going on to be a far more formidable warrior than before suggests that any atrophying in skill would have been minuscule if not non-existent. If anything he skills have improved.And yet that's exactly how muscle memory works, and exactly what happened to Maul in Revenge. Normal humans are capable of going without years of ever having driven a car, ridden a bike or swam in a pool, only to have it yes, come flooding back to them once they pick it up again. The brain is capable of retaining this shit, namely motor skills, subconsciously, for indefinite periods of time, and we can be sure that this was the case for Maul's lightsaber skills considering they have been drilled into him since he was a child in a training regime that surpasses that of most Sith in mythos. There is no basis for Maul simply forgetting his techniques entirely.Right, I don't think I need to explain to you why Lebron James should not be considered equatable to Darth ****ing Maul, or maybe I do?Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I'm referring to your suggestion that Palpatine did not set minions to hunt for Maul simply because it didn't show him actively doing it.I wasn't suggesting that, I was actually basing my opinions off of something called evidence.

At the end of SoD Sidious has seemingly no interest in pursuing Maul, instead believing that with the events that have transpired, he has no future:

http://i.imgur.com/bz4u4Tk.png

After which he makes no attempt to eliminate Maul once he reappears on Mandalore, and instead it is the Jedi who pursue him. Fast forward almost two decades later and Maul is described as a "shadow" (which only reinforces Palpatine's current impression of him) and his continued survival mere rumour. A rumour that it would appear is only confirmed once the Inquisitor's discover him on Malachor, "So, the rumors are true; Darth Maul lives", therefore we must assume that Maul all but eluded the Empire's notice until now, or at least for a very long time. It not even being Vader that Sidious dispatches to investigate Maul's reappearance, but a single Inquisitor, and not even his best, clearly Palpy hardly gives af. Certainly there is no evidence he's been pouring 17, 18 years of resources into hunting him down.How about a game of spot the difference. It's the very same, you even see a Mandalorian fighter in the hangar. And if you watch the entire clip you'll notice Maul has a change of clothes, and cute little minion droids, he's living it up friend.https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/da/3d/18/da3d18f76c9520162fe69a3ac56e566e.jpg

--Twilight of the Apprentice, concept art gallery (http://www.starwars.com/tv-shows/star-wars-rebels/twilight-of-the-apprentice-concept-art-gallery)

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Anyone who thinks Maul wouldn't have muscle memory clearly knows nothing about Maul. And are ignoring TCW Canon.

I've also not seen 1 bit of proof that he didn't keep up his dueling skill. Only biased speculation. Who says he didn't have muscle memory. Quit misrepresenting another argument to sell your laughable one.

He was crazed for years with spider legs. Do you think he practiced in that state of mind ?? Evidence please. Common sense is against you once again.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'm aware of what you're saying, but you're overestimating the extent to which Maul's powers increased. A side by side comparison of Force feats shows his increment in power is not that large and early-TCW Maul is barely capable of using the Force to retrieve his lightsaber.

The fact that despite these circumstances he's capable of rapidly overwhelming Kenobi in Revenge and going on to be a far more formidable warrior than before suggests that any atrophying in skill would have been minuscule if not non-existent. If anything he skills have improved.And yet that's exactly how muscle memory works, and exactly what happened to Maul in Revenge. Normal humans are capable of going without years of ever having driven a car, ridden a bike or swam in a pool, only to have it yes, come flooding back to them once they pick it up again. The brain is capable of retaining this shit, namely motor skills, subconsciously, for indefinite periods of time, and we can be sure that this was the case for Maul's lightsaber skills considering they have been drilled into him since he was a child in a training regime that surpasses that of most Sith in mythos. There is no basis for Maul simply forgetting his techniques entirely.Right, I don't think I need to explain to you why Lebron James should not be considered equatable to Darth ****ing Maul, or maybe I do?I wasn't suggesting that, I was actually basing my opinions off of something called evidence.

At the end of SoD Sidious has seemingly no interest in pursuing Maul, instead believing that with the events that have transpired, he has no future:

http://i.imgur.com/bz4u4Tk.png

After which he makes no attempt to eliminate Maul once he reappears on Mandalore, and instead it is the Jedi who pursue him. Fast forward almost two decades later and Maul is described as a "shadow" (which only reinforces Palpatine's current impression of him) and his continued survival mere rumour. A rumour that it would appear is only confirmed once the Inquisitor's discover him on Malachor, "So, the rumors are true; Darth Maul lives", therefore we must assume that Maul all but eluded the Empire's notice until now, or at least for a very long time. It not even being Vader that Sidious dispatches to investigate Maul's reappearance, but a single Inquisitor, and not even his best, clearly Palpy hardly gives af. Certainly there is no evidence he's been pouring 17, 18 years of resources into hunting him down.How about a game of spot the difference. It's the very same, you even see a Mandalorian fighter in the hangar. And if you watch the entire clip you'll notice Maul has a change of clothes, and cute little minion droids, he's living it up friend.https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/da/3d/18/da3d18f76c9520162fe69a3ac56e566e.jpg

--Twilight of the Apprentice, concept art gallery (http://www.starwars.com/tv-shows/star-wars-rebels/twilight-of-the-apprentice-concept-art-gallery)

1. Dude... He threw back an army of clones with his brother and collapsed a Republic outpost. He's substantially more powerful then his TPM self in power. If you could give me a direct comparison though on why you hold your stance I'd appreciate it.

You understand that Kenobi was physically beaten by Maul beforehand and that the fight was relatively even until Maul unbalanced him correct?

2. I didn't say he'd forget them entirely. I'm saying that he'd have trouble implementing them in combat after not using them for years. Especially when he's not using his saberstaff like he normally does meaning he's going to have to adjust his style even more not only to accommodate his ability to employ moves he hasn't used for years but also employing the best moves for single bladed combat.

3. You're going to need to explain to me why the difference would be large enough in their cognitive capabilities that Maul wouldn't be pretty damn hindered in regards to his technical skill after not using them for decades.

4. He's saying that Maul has no future left which is absolutely true. All his allies are dead. His mother is dead. His brother/apprentice is dead. He has nothing. It doesn't mean Palpatine wouldn't set people to hunt him down. If he's ordering the death of a completely loyal minion who's growing in power like Ventress then he's certainly going to be hunting down a rogue Force user like Maul around that level.

Also we know Maul has had encounters with Inquisitors before because he said "They're formidable." If the Inquisitor who made that comment didn't know about Maul that's showing his ignorance but not Palpatine or Vader's.

5. Just because they look the same doesn't mean they are. Have you ever heard of the concept called "uniformity?"

The CIS/Republic is going to pump out space stations with the same design because it's cheaper to mass produce parts for a single uniform model rather then making a unique space station ever single time. Until we get confirmation I can't agree with your assumption.

6. Fair enough.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
1. Dude... He threw back an army of clones with his brother and collapsed a Republic outpost. He's substantially more powerful then his TPM self in power. If you could give me a direct comparison though on why you hold your stance I'd appreciate it.Yeah not really. Being capable of collapsing a barracks with a Force scream at age 15, and by TPM effortlessly lifting a boulder without so much as looking at it and shielding himself from an explosion that vaporised Anoon Boondara all compare. And then we have holistic abilities like surviving bisection - a feat even Sidious did not believe possible - and leaving a dark side presence on Naboo felt by Leia over thirty years later. He is a powerhouse, undoubtedly, and there is little TCW Maul has accomplished that he could not provably replicate.Physically beaten yes, but he's recovered from worse, whereas Maul on top of the aforementioned circumstances was also unfamiliar on his legs. I'm not arguing it was a fair fight, obviously, but there were disadvantages on both sides.And I'm saying that with sufficient practice he could have restored his talents. Of which Maul had plenty, many more Jedi opponents than he ever faced as an apprentice and on top of that was training Savage.

As for Maul being unpracticed with a single blade? Hardly. The fact that he was able to drive Qui-Gon back on Naboo with a single bladed style proves that he was just as practiced with it as he was the saberstaff, the latter being the infinitely more difficult weapon to wield. Again he's one of the best trained Sith in history, he has no such shortcomings.It's got little to do with cognitive capabilities, although an argument can be made that a Force sensitive is naturally superior in this field, its a simple matter of training. You can't compare that of a basketball player to one of the most efficiently trained Sith in history, lmao.And yet, it does. Because Maul had been neutralised as a threat, hence there is no need to pursue any further action. That is why Sidious does not care that Maul got away, because he has no further interest in capturing him, that is why despite foreseeing that this would occur, Sidious makes no attempt to stop it from happening. It couldn't be anymore ****ing obvious lmao, he doesn't give a damn.

And Sidious saw Ventress as a threat because of her alliance with Dooku, once that was broken of course she was no longer a threat. And despite Dooku failing to eliminate her, Sidious did not pursue matters further did he? Nor did he send anyone after Maul once he reappeared on Mandalore, yeah.That could be read in a number of different ways, from Maul studying their exploits from a far to killing one without being detected. All of course within the contexts of him bullshitting to Ezra to gain his trust. Either way Maul remains a "rumour" i.e. unconfirmed, and even if Sidious and Vader knew better evidently he's not on the most wanted list.Gosh now you are just being retarded, first of all its not a CIS or Republic base, like I said its a Mandalorian outpost (complete with a Mandalorian fighter). Second of all it's not a standard space station, but rather built into a pretty unique asteroid formation, but I suppose they mass produced that too? Still even if we assume it by some chance its merely a cousin of the previous facility that would still have fallen under Maul's control as Mandalore as well. But its pretty obvious its the very same.Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
6. Fair enough. Good, for a moment there I was expecting more mental gymnastics.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/600x315/72/a1/00/72a10097517fdf0a2f20b7e3379b894e.jpg

No I didn't Quan did. Cause y'know, I was responding to Quan.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/mrqe_media/images/80/default/office-space-lumbergh.jpg

My rage knows no bound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJlmxYRrSLk

*meant Tatooine, not Naboo.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
1. Yes, that doesn't make him dumb which he'd have to be to confront Imperial Forces.

4. I'd say the most retarded thing in this thread is you jumping to conclusions about what I meant and then suggesting that Maul would risk being found by Imperials in an effort to keep his skills honed.
He doesn't need to throw down with imperials to keep his lightsaber skills honed.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
2. We don't know what these abilities constitute and it's most likely he did this on Malachor where he wouldn't be found by the Empire for using the Force or drawing his lightsaber.
It doesn't matter where he honed his abilities, what matters is that he has the time and drive to hone his abilities

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
3. He has the time to do so on Malachor, I agree. Though how honed he can keep them by simply practicing katas is questionable.
What the **** is katas?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
No I didn't Quan did. Cause y'know, I was responding to Quan. Come again.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
He doesn't need to throw down with imperials to keep his lightsaber skills honed.


It doesn't matter where he honed his abilities, what matters is that he has the time and drive to hone his abilities


What the **** is katas?

Unless he's in a place completely free of Imperial presence I don't see how he's going to manage to whip it out and practice. Actually, did Maul even have a lightsaber post SoD? We know he got an old Inquisitor lightsaber but not when.

He has the time but not the capabilities as we know he didn't even have a lightsaber for an unspecified period of time and the fact that he wouldn't be able to have practiced wherever there existed an Imperial presence. For now I won't push the matter as we'll likely find out once the Ahsoka novel comes out and it's probably best to wait for it to come out then to make assumptions that'll probably be contradicted once it comes out.

They're training stances or something similar. It comes from PoD so I thought you'd recognize the term.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Unless he's in a place completely free of Imperial presence I don't see how he's going to manage to whip it out and practice. Actually, did Maul even have a lightsaber post SoD? We know he got an old Inquisitor lightsaber but not when.

He has the time but not the capabilities as we know he didn't even have a lightsaber for an unspecified period of time and the fact that he wouldn't be able to have practiced wherever there existed an Imperial presence.


Literally everything you've said here applies to Ahsoka as well. So if Maul hasn't practiced, then neither has Ahsoka.

Difference is we know from TCW that even if Maul eats junk for a few years it only takes him a few fights to regain his skill.

In Rebels however, there was never any indication he ever even lost his skill in the first place.

There's literally nothing to back up Maul being out of shape. Nothing.

Ahsoka doesn't have allies like the Rebel Alliance and benefactors lik Bail Organa.

Except there's no evidence that he regained his skill and it's far more likely his performance is based off his growth in power.

Except for it being logical that he did given the circumstances as I explained above.

Except the logical fact that the against process weakens your physical body.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Ahsoka doesn't have allies like the Rebel Alliance and benefactors lik Bail Organa. what

Maul*

Edit: Have I mentioned how much I hate KMC's edit policy?

It is pure cancer, yeah.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Ahsoka doesn't have allies like the Rebel Alliance and benefactors lik Bail Organa.

Except there's no evidence that he regained his skill and it's far more likely his performance is based off his growth in power.

Except for it being logical that he did given the circumstances as I explained above.

Except the logical fact that the against process weakens your physical body.


What do Ahsoka's Rebel allies have to do with her Saber skills? You're making zero sense.


What do you mean there's no evidence he regained his skill? You're telling me he never showed any skill in TCW? Or in Rebels? Where's your evidence that this was inferior to his skill level in TPM?
Marco/Erkan messaged the writer of Shadow Conspiracy who confirmed Maul improved in Every Way. Despite doing nothing but eating Junk for over a decade. Which means he not only regained his skill but improved on it in literally a matter of months.

And yet now you ignore the Evidence from Maul's past and claim for no reason that his skill has declined while he's been spending much better use of his time, building new Sabers and searching for new ways to destroy the Sith? That's called ignoring evidence from the characters past.

The reasons for the growth in Maul's power still exist and have in fact been magnified. Again evidence is on my side.


Looking at every other Jedi/Sith combatant sans perhaps Old Ben, Maul's age should not be a factor. So again the evidence is all against you. All you have is biased speculation.

Now again Rebels may go and contradict past evidences. But Logic dictates to follow those evidences until the time inconsistencies crop up.

The fact that she can be more easily provided with secure locations by them in places where she can pull out her saber and practice then Maul who would be on the run from Imperials.

My evidence is the logical degradation of skill that occurs when they're not used. Can you provide the quote for Maul improving in every way please?

I'm saying that while he should have been able to practice his saber skills on Malachor in the Sith temple we have no idea how long he was there for and outside of that place there are very few areas he could simply pull out his lit saber and begin practicing katas in.

The reason Maul had such a growth in power was because he wanted revenge on Kenobi for stealing away 2 decades of his life and his master for shunting him to the side. The difference between TCW Maul and Rebels Maul is that Maul has been humbled and knows he's incapable of defeating ghe Emperor's enforcer let alone Sidious himself. He's also lost all of his allies and is being constantly hunted down by the Empire, I can't imagine he has much drive other then to survive and if he gets the chance to strike a blow at his former master and Vader which at his point he should be incapable of what with the destruction of the Sith super weapon. This isn't even mentioning he likely believes his old nemesis Kenobi to be dead one of the main drives he had in TCW.

Age IS a factor. While many Force users remain in great physical condition that does not mean they aren't physically weaker then they would be in their prime ages ( I.E. RotJ Luke is going to be physically superior to Apocalypse Luke on a base level despite the latter being a vastly superior as a combatant ).

Pat evidences don't contradict any of my claims. Older Force users have never shown been shown to be physically superior on a base level when out of their prime. They make up for degrading physical ability via force augmentation.

Nova just murdered D. Troll with logic, common sense, and a well articulated post. Let's hope D. Troll stays dead this time.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
The fact that she can be more easily provided with secure locations by them in places where she can pull out her saber and practice then Maul who would be on the run from Imperials.


This is not a fact or any kind of good explanation in your favour.

What you're basically saying is all that Maul or Ahsoka need to improve is time alone in a room. Which would almost certainly guarantee they've both improved.



Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
My evidence is the logical degradation of skill that occurs when they're not used. Can you provide the quote for Maul improving in every way please?


Funny you've said your "evidence", yet provided none.

The statement from Shadow Conspiracy of Maul having improved since TPM when facing Sidious.

Erkan/Marco posted an email from the author where he confirmed Maul improved in every way. He posted that email in many threads but I'm not looking for it now.

You can always PM him though.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I'm saying that while he should have been able to practice his saber skills on Malachor in the Sith temple we have no idea how long he was there for and outside of that place there are very few areas he could simply pull out his lit saber and begin practicing katas in.


This is speculation, and not an argument for either side. What you're still lacking is Evidence.

Evidence that Ahsoka was training, but Maul wasn't.

Evidence that Maul degraded in Force abilities.

Evidence that age has degraded Maul's abilities.

Evidence, Evidence, Evidence.



Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
The reason Maul had such a growth in power was because he wanted revenge on Kenobi for stealing away 2 decades of his life and his master for shunting him to the side. The difference between TCW Maul and Rebels Maul is that Maul has been humbled and knows he's incapable of defeating ghe Emperor's enforcer let alone Sidious himself. He's also lost all of his allies and is being constantly hunted down by the Empire, I can't imagine he has much drive other then to survive and if he gets the chance to strike a blow at his former master and Vader which at his point he should be incapable of what with the destruction of the Sith super weapon. This isn't even mentioning he likely believes his old nemesis Kenobi to be dead one of the main drives he had in TCW.


Maul's increase in power was due to his rage. His Rage is now greater than ever.

Maul was always out of his league against Sidious, and he was always in hiding. Or have you forgotten the Jedi were hunting him during TCW?

He might have to work even more underground now, and he MAY have left some of his prior motivation behind by being beat down. And that is the ONLY possible reason why Maul may be weaker. And frankly the only valid point been brought to your cause here, so you should really stick to this point more than going off on random


However, as soon as he met Ezra, as soon as his appearance on Rebels got going, that motivation, focus and purpose all seemed to come back pretty quickly.





Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Age IS a factor. While many Force users remain in great physical condition that does not mean they aren't physically weaker then they would be in their prime ages ( I.E. RotJ Luke is going to be physically superior to Apocalypse Luke on a base level despite the latter being a vastly superior as a combatant ).


Key point here is that Old Luke is Vastly more powerful than ROTJ Luke. If Maul's not improved then it suggests his powers in the Force were not advanced enough which I'm not willing to buy.

Maul was always powerhouse and a force prodigy. Even if he's not vastly improved like Luke did, and like Mace did, and like Dooku did and like Vader did.... Even still he wouldn't just weaken for no reason apparent reason.

You see I'm actually a far bigger fan of Maul, and have massive more respect for him than your Troll pal Quanchi does. Difference is I'm not a Fanboy, living in denial and constantly ignoring/twisting the facts and evidences in favour of my preferred character.



Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Pat evidences don't contradict any of my claims. Older Force users have never shown been shown to be physically superior on a base level when out of their prime. They make up for degrading physical ability via force augmentation.


Already addressed.

Maul's past shows Rebels Maul will be =/> than he was in TCW.

"No because I said so."

There. I've saved everyone in this thread from rewriting the Encyclopedia Britannica several times over for no ****ing reason. Just write those five words every time you reply. Might even make a ton more sense than most of the "He def declined" arguments going on in this thread.

Honestly I really don't care to continue this. All of this is pretty much pointless considering the Ahsoka novel is going to be uploaded to Ewok soon. While I go by logical assumption of what occurred where we do not have actual knowledge, it's not relevant since we're about to find out exactly what happened in this time span via aforementioned novel. If questions you and I posed remain unanswered by the book I'll come back to address your stances but until then go on your merry way.

Or we could just accept it would be more consistent with Maul's past that he carried on improving (or at least stayed around the same level) until evidence suggests otherwise.

The Ahsoka novel is unlikely to address Maul.

If it doesn't I'll come back to this thread and respond.