Doctor Strange vs Scarlet Witch

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ozz81
Both at peak who wins ?

EcstaticGrace
Been done Strange

Sin I AM
Wanda is up there with the likes of Jaspers and Mxy at her height. She takes it casually

Mr Master
^^ thumb up

Digi
I'm unimpressed with the one-feat wonder that is Wanda. I get it; someone will scream HoM and demand scans or some bullsh*t. But Strange has been plugging away with occasional abstract-level feats for decades. Give me stability over the glass canon. Hell, wasn't he the one that prevented Wanda's "No More Mutants" edict from being absolute? He's got the kid's number. He'd throw up a defense worthy of any abstract-buster while she blows her wad, then sick the Hoary Hosts of Hoggoth on her ass.

thumb up

zopzop
Originally posted by Digi
I'm unimpressed with the one-feat wonder that is Wanda. I get it; someone will scream HoM and demand scans or some bullsh*t. But Strange has been plugging away with occasional abstract-level feats for decades. Give me stability over the glass canon. Hell, wasn't he the one that prevented Wanda's "No More Mutants" edict from being absolute? He's got the kid's number. He'd throw up a defense worthy of any abstract-buster while she blows her wad, then sick the Hoary Hosts of Hoggoth on her ass.

thumb up
thumb up

Galan007
Originally posted by Digi
I'm unimpressed with the one-feat wonder that is Wanda. I get it; someone will scream HoM and demand scans or some bullsh*t. But Strange has been plugging away with occasional abstract-level feats for decades. Give me stability over the glass canon. Hell, wasn't he the one that prevented Wanda's "No More Mutants" edict from being absolute? He's got the kid's number. He'd throw up a defense worthy of any abstract-buster while she blows her wad, then sick the Hoary Hosts of Hoggoth on her ass.

thumb up Pretty much.

I mean Strange already shielded himself(and a gaggle of Muties) from Wanda's Chaos Wave at ground zero:
http://i.imgur.com/TTKiHOb.jpg

We later learned that Strange shielded said Mutants physically, and Emma shielded them psychically:
http://i.imgur.com/MQTmnFm.jpg


So if he can weather the most powerful attack Wanda has ever unleashed(by, like, infinite orders of magnitude), I'd guess he can certainly weather her 'average' attacks as well.

Facee
Originally posted by Digi
I'm unimpressed with the one-feat wonder that is Wanda. I get it; someone will scream HoM and demand scans or some bullsh*t. But Strange has been plugging away with occasional abstract-level feats for decades. Give me stability over the glass canon. Hell, wasn't he the one that prevented Wanda's "No More Mutants" edict from being absolute? He's got the kid's number. He'd throw up a defense worthy of any abstract-buster while she blows her wad, then sick the Hoary Hosts of Hoggoth on her ass.

thumb up

Correctomundo.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Galan007
Pretty much.

I mean Strange already shielded himself(and a gaggle of Muties) from Wanda's Chaos Wave at ground zero:

We later learned that Strange shielded said Mutants physically,
and Emma shielded them psychically:

That's not the Chaos Wave old friend.

That's Wanda reverting everything back to normal. She was fixing everything there.
Well, with the exception that she felt like nullifying the mutie gene across nearly all TimelineS.

So, with Emma's help they retained memories, nice, but, big deal.

Strange was a flea to Wanda. Come on, you know this.

Even Wanda's children (which she created herself) pumped fear into Strange.

cdtm
Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ thumb up

But Strange countered every gem on the IG.

Sure, one gem at a time, but that's basically how Thanos used the things anyways (Smites the Celestials with the Power Gem, Counters Chronos with the Time Gem, ect..)

Of the lot, fending off the power gem for even a second is ridiculous..

Mr Master
Originally posted by Digi

I'm unimpressed with the one-feat wonder that is Wanda. I get it; someone will scream HoM and demand scans or some bullsh*t. But Strange has been plugging away with occasional abstract-level feats for decades. Give me stability over the glass canon. Hell, wasn't he the one that prevented Wanda's "No More Mutants" edict from being absolute? He's got the kid's number. He'd throw up a defense worthy of any abstract-buster while she blows her wad, then sick the Hoary Hosts of Hoggoth on her ass.

If this is Wanda at her "peak" .. then that's HOM.

In which case, Wanda blinks Strange away.

Strange has no abstracts level feats, unless he was aided by an abstract for performance.

Galan007
Originally posted by Mr Master
That's not the Chaos Wave old friend. Scans of her releasing the 'actual' Chaos Wave, then?

...Because I was under the impression that the "no more Mutants" scene was it. I mean, that was reiterated in Children's Crusade quite a few times. confused

cdtm
Originally posted by Mr Master
If this is Wanda at her "peak" .. then that's HOM.

In which case, Wanda blinks Strange away.

Strange has no abstracts level feats, unless he was aided by an abstract for performance.

Isn't that what peak Strange "is", though?

Pacts and summonings are part and parcel with being a sorcerer supreme I'd assume..

Mr Master
Originally posted by cdtm
But Strange countered every gem on the IG.

Sure, one gem at a time,

Of the lot, fending off the power gem for even a second is ridiculous..
Strange didn't counter the Gems. Otherwise naked Pip and Gamora did too. laughing out loud

Anyway, Adam wasn't trying to hurt either of them.
Adam was trying to convince Strange about his idea for the universe
Adam's tactic was to intimidate and confuse Strange, Pip and Gamora into agreement.

Finally, when a nudge wasn't enough, Adam decided to attack Strange, with the PG.

Strange came PREPPED with all his Talisman's combined for this moment,
Strange lasted a few seconds, and then realized he was a step away from being annihilated.
Luckily he managed to contact Adam via the SG, and Adam relented.

-----------------------------------------------

Mr Master
Originally posted by Galan007

Scans of her releasing the 'actual' Chaos Wave, then?
Are you serious?
Originally posted by Galan007

Because I was under the impression that the "no more Mutants" scene was it.

I mean, that was reiterated in Children's Crusade quite a few times.
How can you think she initiated the "wave" at the end of HOM? confused

That scan you posted is HOM #7 (last pages)

Anyway, the "Wave" wasn't "released." The "wave" isn't a special attack or move by Wanda.

The "Wave" is simply Wanda's power spilling out of 616 (58163) like water out of a hole in a dam.

This occurred the moment she re-created Earth-616 into 58163,
which she accidently tore a hole in space-time within her new universe.
Then, her power which had engulfed 616,
slipped out the tear,
and began traveling between universes,
sweeping every universe it came across,
until it reached Otherworld in X-Men 462,
then it tackled the omniversal nexus Starlight Citadel,
which caused all universeS connected to it, to mesh.

This is why in "Die by the Sword" we learned that the omniverse had torn to pieces.

"no more mutants" fixed all that.

That's the only reason the temporal wave "reverted," cause Wanda wished everything back to normal.

The "wave" did not have a life of it's own, it was not sentient.

operator616
Strange is like the most overrated character ever. More so than pre-crisis characters, id say. which is quite an achievement.

Re-creating a mere broken statue drained Strange nearly completely, he even mentions that at the height of his power he has trouble controlling a small fire from what i recall laughing out loud major spells like the one he performed for all the earth to forget his secret identity "takes too much out of him" by his own admission; i mean are we really putting him in HoM Wanda league? Then we have the myriad defeats he's had at the hands of sons of satannish, or clea, or loki (a fraction of his power even), or dracula, or man thing, or Xandu, or Moribus or or or.

People always reference his "abstract level" feats while ignoring the context of said feats, Peak Wanda blinks him out of existence. This isn't even a debate tbh.

Galan007
In Children's Crusade it was stated that her "no more Mutants" spell negatively altered the Omniverse -- and she was still trying to fix/undo the damage she caused:
http://i.imgur.com/FQG4JJt.jpg

So it was still an Omniversal spell that he shielded himself from, regardless.


{edit}
I didn't see the *peak* stip. I assumed this was average Wanda, and people were just throwing out her HOM feats for the lulz like they always do. That changes things.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Galan007

In Children's Crusade it was stated that her "no more Mutants" spell negatively altered the Omniverse --

and she was still trying to fix/undo the damage she caused
The "negative" part is erasing the mutant gene.

The actual "omniverse" itself was already fixed. Since prior it was "torn to pieces."
Originally posted by Galan007

So it was still an Omniversal spell that he shielded himself from, regardless.
That reads like so much more than it is.

Wanda wasn't attacking Strange in the "no more mutants" phrase, only mutants. (sorta)

When Wanda remade 616 into 58163, Strange got twisted with everything/one else. thumb up
Originally posted by Galan007

I assumed this was average Wanda,
and people were just throwing out her HOM feats for the lulz

like they always do.
I know you can't be referring to me, cause I never do that.

If it's regular Wanda, it's exactly that, but ... if it's HOM, then it is what it is..

abhilegend
Wanda at peak gets life force too? Because Strange already defeated her in Avengers 502.

operator616
Originally posted by abhilegend
Wanda at peak gets life force too? Because Strange already defeated her in Avengers 502.

Right, Avengers 503. It was the eye which neutralized Wanda (HoM power levels, even though she was just beginning to manifest them in disassembled). On the other hand, Strange has outright stated in the past that the mere presence of the artifacts makes him much more powerful, so it is directly associated with his power level. In that case, it qualifies for "peak" strange, i guess. I actually completely forgot about their confronation even though i was just debating it in the other thread lol.

abhilegend
Originally posted by operator616
Right, Avengers 503. It was the eye which neutralized Wanda (HoM power levels, even though she was just beginning to manifest them in disassembled). On the other hand, Strange has outright stated in the past that the mere presence of the artifacts makes him much more powerful, so it is directly associated with his power level. In that case, it qualifies for "peak" strange, i guess. I actually completely forgot about their confronation even though i was just debating it in the other thread lol.
Yeah it happens. Strange has ridiculous high showings and low showings.

operator616
His power fluctuation is mostly due to his constant upgrades and depowerments. In the 60s he receieved two upgrades (one was just a statement the other one being the ancient one's power, and his villains would even comment on his increased power level). Then he received another one in the 70s when he become SS, after that he was depowered to being a master of mystic. Then again in the 80s he was upgarded when his artifacts returned.

Raw-power wise, he's still nowhere near HoM Wanda though. Classic or otherwise.

abhilegend
Yep

Galan007
Originally posted by Mr Master
That reads like so much more than it is.

Wanda wasn't attacking Strange in the "no more mutants" phrase, only mutants. (sorta) This isn't the first thread you've said this in.

No, that reads like exactly what it is. Wanda's 'no more Mutants' spell was Omniversal -- not only did it remake the Omniverse, but it removed the X-gene from the majority of its populace. Strange shielded himself(and others) from that spell's effects. If the spell wasn't meant to target/effect him, he wouldn't have looked like he just got drug under a bus in the following issue:
http://i.imgur.com/w5C9CY2.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master
When Wanda remade 616 into 58163, Strange got twisted with everything/one else. Do we know if he was shielding himself in that instance as well?

Originally posted by Mr Master
I know you can't be referring to me Did I mention your name?

abhilegend
Wanda didn't remade the omniverse......

She corrected Earth 616 and the reality cancer which affected the omniverse was cured.

Heck, in UXM 462 her reality warp is stated to be global in range.

Mr Master
facepalm ...
Originally posted by Galan007

This isn't the first thread you've said this in.
O.k. It's what I know, so I'll say it again when need be.
Originally posted by Galan007

No, that reads like exactly what it is. Wanda's 'no more Mutants' spell was Omniversal -- not only did it remake the Omniverse, but it removed the X-gene from the majority of its populace.
Yes, I said that. She fixed the Omniverse which was "torn to pieces."
This is why her "no more mutants" spell was "omniversal."
The other "omniversal" part of it, is removing the x-gene. (but that's individuals)

Even so, in order to reach all those individuals across the omniverse,
she well,
had to transcend her spell across the omniverse.
Originally posted by Galan007

Strange shielded himself(and others) from that spell's effects. If the spell wasn't meant to target/effect him, he wouldn't have looked like he just got drug under a bus in the following issue:

Well, it wasn't meant to affect him negatively, cause from my understanding, Strange is not a mutant.

All his spell did was allow him to retain memories of what happened.

Nice. But, relevant in a battle? nah.

Actually, he phuked himself up by performing that minute feat, even though Emma helped.
Originally posted by Galan007

Do we know if he was shielding himself in that instance as well?
It wouldn't matter.
Originally posted by Galan007

Did I mention your name?
Well, I was like the only one highlighting HOM Wanda's feats and status in this thread.

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