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For some time now, various users have complained about the prevalence of double standards being used in debates. Some believe it is as detrimental as trolling to the debate culture here. Others think it is an accusation that is often overblown.

Let's discuss the problem and see if we can arrive at viable solutions.

Translation: Here's a thread to ridicule members of the forum, because c'mon what else is a topic like this gonna be used for

Your remarks have been uncommonly petty and whiny of late.

You complain about the debate culture all the time. And yet you post often. So let's have a civil conversation like adults to see if we can remedy the issue.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Your remarks have been uncommonly petty and whiny of late.

You complain about the debate culture all the time. And yet you post often. So let's have a civil conversation like adults to see if we can remedy the issue.

Double standards have existed since the dawn of time. Double standards have existed on the internet since the dawn of the internet. Everybody engages in it to a certain extent, whether consciously or subconsciously. It's probably better to call it out everytime you see it, even at the risk of derailing a debate. Otherwise the debate spirals out of control.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Double standards have existed since the dawn of time. Double standards have existed on the internet since the dawn of the internet. Everybody engages in it to a certain extent, whether consciously or subconsciously. It's probably better to call it out everytime you see it, even at the risk of derailing a debate. Otherwise the debate spirals out of control.

Agreed that you'll never eliminate it entirely. And I agree that those who abuse it should be called out. Should moderators get involved, as they do with trolling?

Great thread, very inspiring

Not really. This isn't an accusation often levied towards me. What I really expect is for this topic to turn into three pages of people bitching about Neph.

This isn't about pointing fingers or naming names, really.
Anyone else want to address the issue? Discuss it at length?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Not really. This isn't an accusation often levied towards me. What I really expect is for this topic to turn into three pages of people bitching about Neph.

You're the only one here to mention him by name.
Let's avoid a self fulfilling prophecy.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Agreed that you'll never eliminate it entirely. And I agree that those who abuse it should be called out. Should moderators get involved, as they do with trolling?

I don't think so. That would require a mod to be actively involved in every debate every single day and nobody has that kind of time. I would be ok with it if the mod got involved after he's had time to read over everything but that would severely hamper the debate wayyyyyyy after the fact an again, we don't have mods who will do all that, or even have mods.

So it's not so much that you have an issue with the idea as it is that you think it's not feasible with KMC's laissez faire style of government?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
So it's not so much that you have an issue with the idea as it is that you think it's not feasible with KMC's laissez faire style of government?

Correct. I'm not so opposed to the idea as I am to the impossibility of it as of the current status quo. Trying to get a mod here has been harder than winning the lottery. Trying to get multiple who both have the time to engage in each debate AND do it objectively while correctly pointing out double standards?

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/22362023.jpg

I don't think a mod would need to be present 24/7.

I think after laying down a few punishments just the idea that you could get banned from pulling the usual shit would keep people from doing it as often.

Originally posted by chicken balls
but u pull that shit each thread bro
While I disagree with Syn in many opinions, he is a good debater, lol.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
For some time now, various users have complained about the prevalence of double standards being used in debates. Some believe it is as detrimental as trolling to the debate culture here. Others think it is an accusation that is often overblown.

Let's discuss the problem and see if we can arrive at viable solutions.

Yes there are.

There have been many times in debates that I've been apart of that the user has displayed a great deal of double standards.

Very recently I've gone back to old debates and watched at how cringy it was to see them claim a certain issue and then completely back track that same day

That would be fine if, for example, like DMB once claiming that Cognus was above Vader in a top 10 Sith list, he easily realized his mistake and changed it after time past. Which is fine, we've all done dumb shit as newbs. Case and point, Carrick vs Barsenthor

But some people, either due to a lack of foresight, mistakenly or knowingly argue the exact same thing as I, yet disregard it in the same post

It would be frustrating, had I not have the utter joy to destroy them in one fell swoop. Which I will PM you, Temp.

The only ones I have debated, and can say with certainty that have no double standards, are the following;

King Joker

Sinious

Sunrazer/Nova

Wollfmyth

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Yes there are.

There have been many times in debates that I've been apart of that the user has displayed a great deal of double standards.

Very recently I've gone back to old debates and watched at how cringy it was to see them claim a certain issue and then completely back track that same day

That would be fine if, for example, like DMB once claiming that Cognus was above Vader in a top 10 Sith list, he easily realized his mistake and changed it after time past. Which is fine, we've all done dumb shit as newbs. Case and point, Carrick vs Barsenthor

But some people, either due to a lack of foresight, mistakenly or knowingly argue the exact same thing as I, yet disregard it in the same post

It would be frustrating, had I not have the utter joy to destroy them in one fell swoop. Which I will PM you, Temp.

The only ones I have debated, and can say with certainty that have no double standards, are the following;

King Joker

Sinious

Sunrazer/Nova

Wollfmyth

Quoting the edited one

I have very likely, almost save, double standarts as well, lol. Most have.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Wollfmyth

0_0

He maybe has, but not as strong, imo.
The only one, who I don't think I have seen double Standarts is Nova, but he stomps almost anyone in a debate.

damn nice pic

Originally posted by JKBart
damn nice pic

Is it tiny? I should ask Sel mmm

ask sel for rating

Originally posted by JKBart
ask sel for rating what r the dimensions of it

15cmX15cm

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Correct. I'm not so opposed to the idea as I am to the impossibility of it as of the current status quo. Trying to get a mod here has been harder than winning the lottery. Trying to get multiple who both have the time to engage in each debate AND do it objectively while correctly pointing out double standards?

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/22362023.jpg

Hmm. So what do you propose?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I don't think a mod would need to be present 24/7.

I think after laying down a few punishments just the idea that you could get banned from pulling the usual shit would keep people from doing it as often.

Perhaps. A deterrent?

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Yes there are.

There have been many times in debates that I've been apart of that the user has displayed a great deal of double standards.

Very recently I've gone back to old debates and watched at how cringy it was to see them claim a certain issue and then completely back track that same day

That would be fine if, for example, like DMB once claiming that Cognus was above Vader in a top 10 Sith list, he easily realized his mistake and changed it after time past. Which is fine, we've all done dumb shit as newbs. Case and point, Carrick vs Barsenthor

But some people, either due to a lack of foresight, mistakenly or knowingly argue the exact same thing as I, yet disregard it in the same post

It would be frustrating, had I not have the utter joy to destroy them in one fell swoop. Which I will PM you, Temp.

The only ones I have debated, and can say with certainty that have no double standards, are the following;

King Joker

Sinious

Sunrazer/Nova

Wollfmyth

I agree. Double standards are an absolute roadblock to any sort of meaningful discussion. Far moreso than trolling, actually, because trolling can simply be ignored.

I don't know. I'm uneasy about adopting a "see something, say something" policy because you'll have a shitstorm on your hands in the form of everyone accusing everybody else of double standards. I don't think there's really a way to do this without multiple mods and constant involvement but obviously I'm all for abolishing double standards or minimizing them at the least.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Perhaps. A deterrent?

Yep.

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
I don't know. I'm uneasy about adopting a "see something, say something" policy because you'll have a shitstorm on your hands in the form of everyone accusing everybody else of double standards. I don't think there's really a way to do this without multiple mods and constant involvement but obviously I'm all for abolishing double standards or minimizing them at the least.

Agreed. Accepting that there's no possible way to eliminate them entirely, I do think it's something that needs to be ruthlessly called out.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Yep.

How should a moderator go about it, do you think?

Amusing.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Amusing.

Moderator involvement?

Simple.

A moderator should enforce the rules placed upon the forum, and in fact update them accordingly now that the EU has been deemed N-canon.

A moderator should be both friendly to groups and a feared enforcer to them as well. For example, during this moderator's tenure as mod for this site, he must set an example, bans and suspensions to those that step out of line, and even perhaps ban some of his friendly acquaintances to prove he's not above banning his "friends"

However, the Moderator must all know when somethings a joke, and when it's serious. He must acknowledge that rivalries exist and actually help a community thrive(E.x Gideon and his former adversaries) however, he must also acknowledge that people people need to grow thicker skins if they're being insulted. People have egos, egos tend to clash. Unless they are being affected very deeply(E.x Dmb being sent several messages by former user, Sith) then a moderator should step in and lay down the law.

A moderator need to walk a double edge sword that allows him to be both a friendly and kind Mod, but also a ruthless and feared one.

I say this from experience.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Agreed. Accepting that there's no possible way to eliminate them entirely, I do think it's something that needs to be ruthlessly called out.



How should a moderator go about it, do you think?

Coming on at random times at least twice a month and f*cking up some shmoe's day.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I don't think a mod would need to be present 24/7.

I think after laying down a few punishments just the idea that you could get banned from pulling the usual shit would keep people from doing it as often. Zoltan got banned for telling people to kill themselves, and after he got banned, everyone taunted Bada for banning him.

Yes.

Looks like they're as prevalent as ever.

No, it looks like the hunt for them is as prevalent as ever.

They're not mutually exclusive. And hunting for double standards around here is a bit like quail hunting. They're hard to miss.

Sure, but spending your existence on this forum just hunting for double standards and other flaws in users' debating style isn't what leads to good discussion. With all due respect, I don't think a thread like this that's designed to highlight such things is what we need right now.

The forum's gone to shit anyway, lol.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Sure, but spending your existence on this forum just hunting for double standards and other flaws in users' debating style isn't what leads to good discussion. With all due respect, I don't think a thread like this that's designed to highlight such things is what we need right now.

The forum's gone to shit anyway, lol.

It's hard to have a good discussion with those who make liberal use of double standards lol.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It's hard to have a good discussion with those who make liberal use of double standards lol.

It's hard to have any discussion period..

They're certainly few and far between, these days.