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Same place and setting as in the novel when Vos took down Dooku, but instead it is Rebels Maul / SoD Maul.

All out fight.

Who wins?

a. Rebels Maul
b. SoD Maul


Bonus Round: If Maul loses, give him a Quanchi Amp.

Vos without trouble.
Vos in a good fight.

Vos takes Force, that's for sure but dunno about all out and sabers

Vos dies.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Vos takes Force, that's for sure but dunno about all out and sabers


Why would Vos take Force?

Anyway he beats Rebels Maul.

^ Has better showings, exceeds Maul's potency, broader range of powers.

Better showings? He got ragdolled by Dooku.

He also ragdolled Ventress. Could Maul ragdoll Asajj (Genuine question)

Lel yes.

Reasons Zoltan? Or just hate Ventress?

He ragdolled Kenobi, he can most certainly do the same to Ventress.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
he can most certainly do the same to Ventress.

He kind of did in DD.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Reasons Zoltan? Or just hate Ventress?

I'm not you. I don't let salt drive me.

It doesn't drive me. I am the salt.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
He also ragdolled Ventress. Could Maul ragdoll Asajj (Genuine question)


That's a Savage level feat tbh.


Realistically Maul and DD Vos are probably on par. But the way Filoni sh**s on Maul, I wouldn't put my money on him.

If DD Vos is while enraged >Dooku, then he is, while not enraged, >Maul

Ehh dunno about that logic. Maul and Dooku aren't really miles apart and it's not like Vos rofl stomped Dooku's ass

That was an joke...

^ sorry pal

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Vos dies.

How?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
That's a Savage level feat tbh.


Realistically Maul and DD Vos are probably on par. But the way Filoni sh**s on Maul, I wouldn't put my money on him.

Only enraged Savage was capable of such and in that state he did the same to Dooku.

^ Whilst Dooku was engaged with Ventress. He was caught off guard.

They both had their force defenses as ey were facing each other at the time up as I've already explained.

I'm sure Dooku would've been able to resist if had time to 'brace' himself. It's not like he was expecting Asajj to just choke him out

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
How? By suffering fatal injuries, I would imagine.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
By suffering fatal injuries, I would imagine.

How would that occur when he's already shown superiority to a more powerful and more skilled combatant?

Because he hasn't? Yes his performance against Dooku was impressive but I accredit his victory to stylistic advantages that he won't possess against Maul. Dooku remains the more skilled duelist and the more powerful Force user. As does Maul.

Except he has?

Did Vos's style change in DD because as far as I recall it was Ataru which Dooku knows every single weakness of as is stated in RotS.

Vos knows Shien and Vaapad too.

In canon?

No actually. My mistake.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Except he has?

Did Vos's style change in DD because as far as I recall it was Ataru which Dooku knows every single weakness of as is stated in RotS. That's Legends friend, it has no bearing on Canon.

On the other hand the text highlights two aspects of that duel that contributed to Vos' victory. The first is that though Dooku was a master of technique, Vos' unpredictability gave him the edge; the inference being that Dooku's technical approach to duelling left him shortchanged against someone who threw out the rules, who did not employ technique, but instead extreme randomness.

The second aspect is Vos' acrobatic offense, which for whatever reason left Dooku encircled, entrapped and caused him to overextend.

On the other hand the fact that Dooku is made out as a master of technique in comparison to Vos indicates that he was in fact the better duelist, and the telekinetic domination he exerted in that fight combined with some remarks Ventress later makes, demonstrate him to be the better Force user as well.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
I'm sure Dooku would've been able to resist if had time to 'brace' himself. It's not like he was expecting Asajj to just choke him out

Savage, you mean? And he might have but if it was just him resisting an enraged Savage's attack the outcome would have been questionable considering Savage had enough power to do the same against Ventress simultaneously.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
That's Legends friend, it has no bearing on Canon.

On the other hand the text highlights two aspects of that duel that contributed to Vos' victory. The first is that though Dooku was a master of technique, Vos' unpredictability gave him the edge; the inference being that Dooku's technical approach to duelling left him shortchanged against someone who threw out the rules, who did not employ technique, but instead extreme randomness.

The second aspect is Vos' acrobatic offense, which for whatever reason left Dooku encircled, entrapped and caused him to overextend.

On the other hand the fact that Dooku is made out as a master of technique in comparison to Vos indicates that he was in fact the better duelist, and the telekinetic domination he exerted in that fight combined with some remarks Ventress later makes, demonstrate him to be the better Force user as well.

Which is why I asked if it had changed in canon.

The second part was noted to be his "ferocity" in text. His acrobatic offensive is just a description of the offensive he employed against Dooku. I wonder what form is noted for its acrobatics.

Being a superior telekinetic doesn't mean much if you can't capitalize on your advantage which, as is apparent, Dooku was unable to. I'd like you to post the comments by Ventress you think indicate support of your point.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Which is why I asked if it had changed in canon.

The second part was noted to be his "ferocity" in text. His acrobatic offensive is just a description of the offensive he employed against Dooku. I wonder what form is noted for its acrobatics.

Being a superior telekinetic doesn't mean much if you can't capitalize on your advantage which, as is apparent, Dooku was unable to. I'd like you to post the comments by Ventress you think indicate support of your point. Yeah I was talking about the RotS novel.

And I'm aware, but it had Dooku entrapped nonetheless, I don't see Maul being encircled by Vos as Dooku was, he is far less a static duelist and instead extremely acrobatic and kinetic a fighter himself. Neither is Maul a technical duelist in the same way Dooku is, he is not a fencer who attempts to dismantle his opponents by exploiting flaws in their technique, but simply eviscerates them with the sheer deadliness (and indeed unpredictability) of his own offense. Which simply leaves Vos being an inferior fighter to one the most skilled and highly trained Sith in history.

And no it doesn't, but the point is that he isn't better than Dooku, and I see no reason to believe he's more powerful than Maul either. A comparison between Maul and Dooku Force wise is a matter of splitting hairs, and Vos has no feats that suggest superiority. So he's losing Force-only for starters.

This is the quote from Ventress:Implication being that Sidious > Dooku > Vos in terms of dark side power from her perspective.

At the dentist and then have class after. Response will be up after noon.

I hope ur teeth get drilled and you fail ur lessons.

why

Sweet Beni

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yeah I was talking about the RotS novel.

And I'm aware, but it had Dooku entrapped nonetheless, I don't see Maul being encircled by Vos as Dooku was, he is far less a static duelist and instead extremely acrobatic and kinetic a fighter himself. Neither is Maul a technical duelist in the same way Dooku is, he is not a fencer who attempts to dismantle his opponents by exploiting flaws in their technique, but simply eviscerates them with the sheer deadliness (and indeed unpredictability) of his own offense. Which simply leaves Vos being an inferior fighter to one the most skilled and highly trained Sith in history.

And no it doesn't, but the point is that he isn't better than Dooku, and I see no reason to believe he's more powerful than Maul either. A comparison between Maul and Dooku Force wise is a matter of splitting hairs, and Vos has no feats that suggest superiority. So he's losing Force-only for starters.

The RotS novel is canon where it doesn't contradict the movies. I don't see how Dooku having innate knowledge of Ataru contradicts the movie.

Given Vos beat Dooku and Maul should inferably not be capable of the same I would not place Maul even as a peer of Vos's let alone a superior.

The point is he is better. Makashi isn't noted for being weak against unpredictable attacks meaning your speculation remains just that. I'd say ragdolling Ventress puts him about par with Maul. Dooku is greater then Maul by a substantial margin imo. Vos beating Dooku suggests superiority considering he couldn't even best Grievous when amped by a DS nexus.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
The RotS novel is canon where it doesn't contradict the movies. I don't see how Dooku having innate knowledge of Ataru contradicts the movie.Friend, its not Canon. Disney made it very clear what was and what wasn't. And even if it was, that particular clause would render half the novel null and void, it's plagued with inconsistencies.

But whatever, I'm sure Dooku having consumate knowledge of the seven styles' strengths and weaknesses is still a thing, but it appears to be Canon Vos' rejection of style that gave him the edge.Inferably? Maul's ability to defeat Dooku is well within the realm of possibility. That's your opinion, I don't share it. The ability to defeat X in combat does not necessarily make you holistically superior. And in general this kind of ABC logic is inherently flawed.It's a perfectly logical conclusion to make friend, and I've already expounded on my reasoning. If you lack a valid counter response besides from "it's nowhere stated" then it is you who are assuming that Makashi wouldn't be vulnerable to this kind of offense. The fact that the text draws an explicit comparison between Dooku's technique and Vos' unpredictability only lending itself to my point.Considering Maul has done the same to a more powerful Kenobi, who has himself ragdolled Ventress, it doesn't even come close.There is no evidence to suggest Maul couldn't best Grievous lol, ultimately they only crossed sabers briefly before Grievous was distracted and subsequently BFRed. I see no evidence that suggests Vos would have done better.

There is also the added contexts that while Vos quickly gained an edge over Dooku and subsequently had him beaten. Anakin tried and failed to overcome the Count in the same novel. Go figure.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
There is also the added contexts that while Vos quickly gained an edge over Dooku and subsequently had him beaten. Anakin tried and failed to overcome the Count in the same novel. Go figure.

Thank you for poining out Vos's superiority to someone who even had a form advantage in his favor. Lmao.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Friend, its not Canon. Disney made it very clear what was and what wasn't. And even if it was, that particular clause would render half the novel null and void, it's plagued with inconsistencies.

But whatever, I'm sure Dooku having consumate knowledge of the seven styles' strengths and weaknesses is still a thing, but it appears to be Canon Vos' rejection of style that gave him the edge.Inferably? Maul's ability to defeat Dooku is well within the realm of possibility. That's your opinion, I don't share it. The ability to defeat X in combat does not necessarily make you holistically superior. And in general this kind of ABC logic is inherently flawed.It's a perfectly logical conclusion to make friend, and I've already expounded on my reasoning. If you lack a valid counter response besides from "it's nowhere stated" then it is you who are assuming that Makashi wouldn't be vulnerable to this kind of offense. The fact that the text draws an explicit comparison between Dooku's technique and Vos' unpredictability only lending itself to my point.Considering Maul has done the same to a more powerful Kenobi, who has himself ragdolled Ventress, it doesn't even come close.There is no evidence to suggest Maul couldn't best Grievous lol, ultimately they only crossed sabers briefly before Grievous was distracted and subsequently BFRed. I see no evidence that suggests Vos would have done better.

1. It wouldn't render Dooku's knowledge of all of Ataru's weaknesses moot because that doesn't contradict the movie. Since that's the only part of the novel that's currently relevant I don't see the point of your comment.

Canon Vos employs a ferocious, unpredictable, agility based offensive. Sounds like Ataru to me.

2. Given their relative performance against lightsaber combatants like Sidious and Yoda I'd beg to differ. Being dominated in a fight Sidious was only playing around in vs holding off an offensive from a serious Yoda isn't comparable imo.

3. If A beats C and C has superior feats to B then A beats C. Got it?

4. Makashi is noted to be a dueling form that specializes in one on one combat. You think it would've noted its weakness to unpredictability like it does with its weakness to kinetic force if it was relevant or in fact even existed at all.

5. Kenobi has never ragdolled Ventress in canon ( and AFAIK not in Legends either. He has however been dominated by Ventress multiple times in Legends and along with Anakin was dominated by an enraged Ventress in TCW.

6. Right. Vos beating Dooku an inarguable superior to Grievous means Vos wouldn't have done better in a situation where he's amped. Lmao.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
1. It wouldn't render Dooku's knowledge of all of Ataru's weaknesses moot because that doesn't contradict the movie. Since that's the only part of the novel that's currently relevant I don't see the point of your comment.

Canon Vos employs a ferocious, unpredictable, agility based offensive. Sounds like Ataru to me.The point is the novel is Legends lol, so its worthless as a source. We can still assume Dooku has extensive knowledge of lightsaber techniques simply because of his mastery over dueling, but we know that Vos rejects conventional models for extreme randomness.More ABC logic tbh, unlike Maul, Dooku deflected Yoda's assault while Maul met Sidious head on, if Dooku had done the same I don't imagine he would have lasted long. This being after Maul had been fighting Sidious for some time.
Maul > Kenobi > Anakin > Dooku then, gotcha.If you can name a (Canon) source that outlines Makashi's weaknesses (naturally one that isn't context dependent) then you might have a point, but I reckon you'll struggle, as there are none. So for the meantime you continue to assume that Vos defeated Dooku because he was the better duelist.He Force grips her in Dark Disciple:And though Ventress' focus was not on him at the time, it remains a greater display of superiority than the few extreme circumstances under which Ventress overpowered Kenobi (or Anakin). On the other hand with out such circumstances Anakin destroyed her. Yet failed to overpower Kenobi in RotS, despite growing "vastly" in strength. Yeah, Kenobi is undoubtedly better.Huh? Aside from the sheer lack of details on the duration of either fight, or the extent of the amp (if any) involved, making such a comparison impossible, this point is rendered rather moot by the main thrust of Vos not being better than Dooku.

I suggest you just stick to that.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Thank you for poining out Vos's superiority to someone who even had a form advantage in his favor. Lmao. facepalm

Vos is not superior to Anakin, Christ.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
facepalm

Vos is not superior to Anakin, Christ.

As a lightsaber combat as of DD he certainly is.

Despite Anakin being considered the greatest warrior in the Order, and being, ya know, the Chosen One. mmm

Originally posted by Beniboybling
The point is the novel is Legends lol, so its worthless as a source. We can still assume Dooku has extensive knowledge of lightsaber techniques simply because of his mastery over dueling, but we know that Vos rejects conventional models for randomness.More ABC logic tbh, unlike Maul, Dooku deflected Yoda's assault while Maul met Sidious head on, if Dooku had done the same I don't imagine he would have lasted long.
Maul > Kenobi > Anakin > Dooku then, gotcha.If you can name a (Canon) source that outlines Makashi's weaknesses (naturally one that isn't context dependent) then you might have a point, but I reckon you'll struggle, as there are none. So for the meantime you continue to assume that Vos defeated Dooku because he was the better duelist.He Force grips her in Dark Disciple:Whereas Ventress only ever overpowered Kenobi (or Anakin), under extreme circumstances. On the other hand with out such circumstances Anakin destroyed her. Yet failed to overpower Kenobi in RotS, despite growing "vastly" in strength. Yeah, Kenobi is undoubtedly better.What? Aside from the sheer lack of details on the duration of either fight, or the extent of the amp (if any) involved, making this baseless speculation, this point is render rather moot by the main thrust of Vos not being better than Dooku. So maybe you should just stick to that.

1. The novel is canon where it doesn't contradict the movies. Just because Vos is unpredictable doesn't mean he rejects conventional lightsaber combat especially when Ataru's MO is to be an offensive whirlwind.

2. Except Sidious was noted to not be taking the fight seriously and playing with Maul AND his brother. Dooku held off a serious assault by Yoda. Not to mention Yoda being a superior duelist to Sidious anyways.

3. Except there's no form advantages, personal knowledge or amps involved in the Vos/Dooku/Maul comparison.

4. The RotS novelization is a canon source that does exactly that.

5. LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

You call that ragdolling? Consider it a kindness that I won't bother addressing this point.

An emotionally hindered Anakin who had just choked out his wife and was at a mental breaking point. Anakin in less emotional distress has failed to even replicate the power of a grenade after his "substantial power growth."

6. Grievous and Maul engaging twice and neither gaining an advantage over the other demonstrates clears peerage. Grievous > Maul ( as a lightsaber combatant ). Dooku > Grievous. Vos > Dooku. Vos >>> Maul.

Dathomir is noted to be a world strong with the darkside in multiple sources.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Despite Anakin being considered the greatest warrior in the Order, and being, ya know, the Chosen One. mmm

As of Dark Disciple? Quote?

And remind me again how his status as an overall combatant equates to his ability as a lightsaber combatant?

You know you're losing an argument when you throw in 'The Chosen One' card.

Vos already fought against grevious in DD, and he beat him in like less than 60 seconds,right?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Only enraged Savage was capable of such and in that state he did the same to Dooku.


Only enraged Savage did that. You don't know only enraged Savage is capable of that.

Regular Savage also ragdolled a council member - Adi Gallia. He's also got better TK feats than Vos, throwing a huge Jedi craft off a cliff.

So raged or not, Savage clearly has a mean Force wave, and it will take a lot of evidence to put Vos above him in that category.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
1. The novel is canon where it doesn't contradict the movies. Just because Vos is unpredictable doesn't mean he rejects conventional lightsaber combat especially when Ataru's MO is to be an offensive whirlwind.Lol Syn you can keep saying that until you're blue in the face, it doesn't make it any more true. Fact remains that neither Disney or Lucasfilm have stated the novelisations to be Canon, nor are they included in their list of what is; and though according to Del Rey's Twitter this appears to be the case*, they fail to appear in the official timeline you'll find in every published Canon book. So no, it's Legends.

*though the word they use is "align" not contradict, which is quite different.Which you've already said, that doesn't alter my point nor prove that Dooku could have met Yoda head on, as Maul did, even if the latter had been holding something back, considering Yoda wasn't pressed by Dooku at all.

In fact more than that Maul was initially driving Sidious back, and managed to connect a blow, it's only when Sidious forces a direct contest of strength that Maul's (presumably flagging) reserves give way, as Sidious taps in fully to his own. Again what proof is there that Dooku would have done much better, or better at all, under those circumstances?And that's where you're wrong. Aside from that not being the case, this is what I was referring to when I said context dependent i.e. Dooku commenting on a specific weakness of his style relevant to his opponent, that doesn't at all mean it was the only weakness he had.Lol, concession accepted.The power of a grenade is pretty... powerful. So I'd appreciate a source on that.

Regardless being in an emotionally hindered state didn't stop him from crushing Cin Drallig or causing Kenobi's bone's to fracture with "impossible strength", so I'm not inclined to believe that makes up for a vast increment in power at all.

Certainly we are no closer to proving Ventress is in Kenobi's league. mmmNo it doesn't lol, both engagements were far too brief for us to draw any concrete conclusions. Please rein in your bias.That doesn't necessitate Maul tapping in to it, or give us information on the extent of the amp if he was.Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
As of Dark Disciple? Quote?

And remind me again how his status as an overall combatant equates to his ability as a lightsaber combatant? Kanan tells Ezra he was considered as such in Rebels, and given he's never seen him fight I assume it was the general opinion rather than a personal conviction. Ahsoka concurring with him based on her own experiences despite having left his side prior to DD.
And that would be because his ability to wield a lightsaber is encompassed by his skill with a lightsaber, yeah.

More to the point though Vos has never achieved such high praise or anything remotely close to it despite being, what the second, third best duelist in the Order by your estimation? Colour me unconvinced.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
You know you're losing an argument when you throw in 'The Chosen One' card. Actually, Anakin possessing a vastly greater growth curve to Vos, as well as access to equal levels of training and experience happens to be pretty relevant.Originally posted by Total Warrior
Vos already fought against grevious in DD, and he beat him in like less than 60 seconds,right? After relieving him of his lightsabers. Still prolly shorter than Maul's bout with him though.

Didn't Maul tackle and immobilize Grievous in an instant in Son of Dathomir? Why is this even a discussion?

Dooku vs Maul is a toss-up, the winner would come down to who had the situational advantage.

As for Vos, he has a puncher's chance against Maul but the factors which allowed him to beat Dooku - speed, ferocity, unpredictability - are nullified here, since Maul is even faster, more ferocious and unpredictable.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Only enraged Savage did that. You don't know only enraged Savage is capable of that.

Regular Savage also ragdolled a council member - Adi Gallia. He's also got better TK feats than Vos, throwing a huge Jedi craft off a cliff.

So raged or not, Savage clearly has a mean Force wave, and it will take a lot of evidence to put Vos above him in that category.

Scan for Savage rag dolling Adi?

I'd say ragdolling Ventress is about as good as any of the object manipulation feats Savage has.

Originally posted by Unbowed
Didn't Maul tackle and immobilize Grievous in an instant in Son of Dathomir? Why is this even a discussion?

Dooku vs Maul is a toss-up, the winner would come down to who had the situational advantage.

As for Vos, he has a puncher's chance against Maul but the factors which allowed him to beat Dooku - speed, ferocity, unpredictability - are nullified here, since Maul is even faster, more ferocious and unpredictable.

And what evidence do you have for this stance?

I'll get to you after I deal with the fodder Beni.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I'll get to you after I deal with the fodder Beni. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ_j3s5xj8I&t=0m22sOriginally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I'd say ragdolling Ventress is about as good as any of the object manipulation feats Savage has. Looking into it Vos ragdolling Ventress wasn't even legitimate anywayhe was expecting a snog, not strangulation, and subsequently wouldn't have had her defences up. On the other hand Vos failed to telekinetically dominate her over the course of the ensuing fight. Shame.

Fair enough. Didn't know the context only that it was a feat brought up for Vos quite a lot.

You do understand how hypocritical it is to attempt to claim Obi Wan "ragdolled" Ventress when they were having a casual conversation and he gently moved her to the side at the end of it and then go to make an issue of Vos right? Like putting aside the usual KMC banter you understand why that's a mistake?

Not as hypocritical as wanking a feat for 3 pages without even knowing the circumstances.

How is that hypocritical... It could be considered ignorance but I don't really get how it can be considered hypocritical unless I've called somebody out for arguing the feats of a character they weren't actually sure on which as far I can remember I never have. When somebody admits a mistake to me I don't jump on them, I just say it's alright and that we all do it.

I'm not as big of a prick as you'd like to believe zoltan.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Fair enough. Didn't know the context only that it was a feat brought up for Vos quite a lot.

You do understand how hypocritical it is to attempt to claim Obi Wan "ragdolled" Ventress when they were having a casual conversation and he gently moved her to the side at the end of it and then go to make an issue of Vos right? Like putting aside the usual KMC banter you understand why that's a mistake? Error? Casual conversation? Sorry for assuming you had read the novel, or can read at all. But no they were not having a casual conversation, Ventress was trying to kill Vos and Kenobi interceded, leading them to engage in lightsaber combat. Ventress took her attention off Kenobi (which I acknowledged) for a moment and he "gently" seized her in the Force. No he did not ragdoll her about the room because Jedi don't do that, but he nonetheless exerted a degree of telekinetic domination of her, in a combat situation.

It's not as if she's going to lash out at him and striking out with the Force is really the only way to break free of someone else's force grip. Opponents of similar power are capable of doing this to each other even in combat situations as demonstrated when Vader briefly chokes Galen near the end of their fight despite being dominated by Galen in the end.

Going to class. Will have a response to your post on the last page after noon.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
It's not as if she's going to lash out at him and striking out with the Force is really the only way to break free of someone else's force grip. Opponents of similar power are capable of doing this to each other even in combat situations as demonstrated when Vader briefly chokes Galen near the end of their fight despite being dominated by Galen in the end. Meh if you want to read it in that manner very well, still a better point than any Ventress has scored.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ_j3s5xj8I&t=0m22sLooking into it Vos ragdolling Ventress wasn't even legitimate anywayhe was expecting a snog, not strangulation, and subsequently wouldn't have had her defences up. On the other hand Vos failed to telekinetically dominate her over the course of the ensuing fight. Shame. I agree with You, tbh i don't see why that feat is so often used in debates. For istance, i believe Vos taking Dooku's saber off him via TK in the middle of a duel is more impressive than his fight with Ventress

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lol Syn you can keep saying that until you're blue in the face, it doesn't make it any more true. Fact remains that neither Disney or Lucasfilm have stated the novelisations to be Canon, nor are they included in their list of what is; and though according to Del Rey's Twitter this appears to be the case*, they fail to appear in the official timeline you'll find in every published Canon book. So no, it's Legends.

*though the word they use is "align" not contradict, which is quite different.Which you've already said, that doesn't alter my point nor prove that Dooku could have met Yoda head on, as Maul did, even if the latter had been holding something back, considering Yoda wasn't pressed by Dooku at all.

In fact more than that Maul was initially driving Sidious back, and managed to connect a blow, it's only when Sidious forces a direct contest of strength that Maul's (presumably flagging) reserves give way, as Sidious taps in fully to his own. Again what proof is there that Dooku would have done much better, or better at all, under those circumstances?And that's where you're wrong. Aside from that not being the case, this is what I was referring to when I said context dependent i.e. Dooku commenting on a specific weakness of his style relevant to his opponent, that doesn't at all mean it was the only weakness he had.Lol, concession accepted.The power of a grenade is pretty... powerful. So I'd appreciate a source on that.

Regardless being in an emotionally hindered state didn't stop him from crushing Cin Drallig or causing Kenobi's bone's to fracture with "impossible strength", so I'm not inclined to believe that makes up for a vast increment in power at all.

Certainly we are no closer to proving Ventress is in Kenobi's league. mmmNo it doesn't lol, both engagements were far too brief for us to draw any concrete conclusions. Please rein in your bias.That doesn't necessitate Maul tapping in to it, or give us information on the extent of the amp if he was.Kanan tells Ezra he was considered as such in Rebels, and given he's never seen him fight I assume it was the general opinion rather than a personal conviction. Ahsoka concurring with him based on her own experiences despite having left his side prior to DD.
And that would be because his ability to wield a lightsaber is encompassed by his skill with a lightsaber, yeah.

More to the point though Vos has never achieved such high praise or anything remotely close to it despite being, what the second, third best duelist in the Order by your estimation? Colour me unconvinced.

1. Del Rey couldn't have made that announcement without permission from Disney and Disney has not denied their claim.

2. Maul didn't meet a serious Sidious head on. He met a Sidious who was toying with him. Nothing suggests this changed towards the end of the fight either. What is suggested ( by both Filoni and official canon statements ) is that Maul was never capable of matching Sidious. Even if he had been serious Savage was aiding him up until the very end of the fight where Maul would have been enraged and thus amped by his brother's death making it an invalid showing regardless.

3. The fact that Dooku held off a serious Yoda for a decent period where Sidious was never serious in his fight with Maul and Savage.

4. Yes but you think a weakness like that would have been mentioned in the form's description ( we have two, both in Legends and canon ) if it was relevant.

5. Nah Beni because both you and I know how bullsh!t that point was as does anybody reading this.

LoE. Anakin can't force open a blast door. Ringing any bells? It did stop him from overwhelming Kenobi in a force lock. Are you telling me you believe Obi Wan is an equal to RotS Anakin as a force user?

You haven't provided any evidence for Obi Wan being in Ventress's league and since you're the one trying to make that point it's on you to bring up better evidence then "HURR DURR HE PICKED HER UP AND MOVED HER AFTER HAVING A FRIENDLY CONVERSATION. SHE DIDN'T STOP HIM. HE RAGDOLLED HER."

6. I'm pointing out that if neither gained an advantage in tow different engagement of unspecified length it indicates parity. Do you disagree?

Please explain to me why Maul wouldn't have deigned to tap into a power source that would have increased his abilities. I didn't make any claims to the extent of his amp, I just noted he was.

And that's obviously not the case. Yoda being Dooku's superior and as you so graciously mentioned Anakin stalemating Dooku disproves this claim. His reputation was "The Hero With No Fear" and as a great warrior so it's pretty clear that he's going to be recognizes as the Jedi's greatest warrior since he's a far more active combat Jedi then Yoda who we knows spends most of his time in the temple or on negotiation missions.

It encompasses it, yes but I'll ask again, how does it equate to it?

Are you purposely not taking into account that fact that Vos was spy for the Order sent on covert missions for the most part while Anakin was a public figure loved and admired by the Reublic? Jeezus Christ.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
You haven't provided any evidence for Obi Wan being in Ventress's league.

Wait. You think Ventress > Kenobi?

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I don't. I'm simply saying that Beni claiming Kenobi > Ventress without providing evidence is tantamount to me doing the same in regards to Ventress.

Syn why are you still peddling this friendly conversation bullshit lmao.

Facades are fun.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
1. Del Rey couldn't have made that announcement without permission from Disney and Disney has not denied their claim.That's an assumption. Fact is neither Disney nor Lucasfilm have supported it in any way, and instead contradicted it with their own press release - nor do the books appear in Del Rey's official timeline, I'm taking that over a tweet.

Regardless nowhere does Dooku attempting to kill Kenobi with his knowledge of Ataru, or employing knowledge of Ataru in that fight at all, align with what we see on screen, so the point is moot either way. Time to move on.Dooku isn't capable of matching Sidious either, with or without backup, with or without him holding back. And both the novelisation and Filoni's own remarks indicate Sidious ramped up the intensity towards the end. And if we assume Maul was amplified by rage we should assume Maul was fatigued by the preceding fight as well, and in that respect balance each other out. However rage amps are consistently short lived in SW mythos so it stands to reason that power would have quickly evaporated.What description(s) exactly are you referring to?Your nothing if not amusing Syn. No it isn't, I was hoping for a quote, not your retelling.No I'm not, I'm telling you that Mustafar!Anakin is not significantly weaker than TCW Anakin.You're retarded, yeah.Yes I disagree you fruitcake. Anakin appeared to be contending equally with Dooku in AotC, until he wasn't. Maul and Kenobi seemed pretty evenly matched in TPM, until Kenobi lost. Grievous initially had Ventress on the ropes in Massacre, until he didn't. Ahsoka appeared to be winning against Vader in their duel as well, until she wasn't. Noticing a pattern? I sincerely hope so.

Moreover we barely see them fight at all, in fact the first engagement can't even be classed as such, since all it consists of is a blade lock before Grievous kicks him away:
In their second fight this is the extent of what we see:
Two panels, in which we never even witness them clash blades, so its not even concrete neither party had an advantage. And going off the panels themselves, the duel lasted no more than a dozen or so seconds. But despite all this I'm to assume they are equals? Yeah, absurd.And I'm just pointing out that speculation only further muddies your conclusions, even if it is reasonable.This isn't about Yoda, this is about Vos.If the point you're trying to make is that it doesn't refer exclusively to lightsaber skill I don't disagree, but considering the contexts (a hologram of Anakin displaying his lightsaber skills) and Anakin's own strengths, it is obviously the most prominent factor.A spy? OK. He was an expert tracker and an underworld specialist, but I don't know anything about being a spy. More to the point there is a war on, and considering that in TCW Vos is wearing armour and arrives at the Temple in an ARC shuttle he's obviously participating, and indeed was supposed to be present during the Battle of Kashyyyk. He is a warrior yeah, and had plenty of time to display his skills, yet received not a lick of praise. And the opinions of the Jedi and Republic are not synonymous.

Ugghhh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eCG8FDOxIw

Yeah.

I'll get to it sometime.