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I am especially in the force not sure. Where do you rank the HoT, Nox, 'Thor and Wrath?

I have the HoT around Windu level overall. HoT>Nox>Wrath>'Thor

Nox I rate somewhere between Dooku and Vader as a force user and about mid council member level as a lightsaber combatant.

HoT = Obi Wan+ in sabers
Nox = difficult, probably Dooku+ level as Nova said
'Thor = Maul+ level in the Force, more or less, probably.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
HoT = Obi Wan+ in sabers

Zoltan is going to kill you.

Everything he said is pure cancer.

Nox>Dooku... I am triggered :/

Originally posted by Ursumeles

Nox>Dooku... I am triggered :/

Dooku is my favorite character...

I like you again
Why do you have Nox>Dooku?

Youtube the Thanaton fight.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
I like you again
Why do you have Nox>Dooku?

Her performance against Thanaton is pretty huge. Semi ragdolled him and then immobilized him with telekinesis and forced him to his knees.

Thanaton by himself, killed Vitiate's apprentice as an apprentice, in a mission which he was expected to fail and ascended to the council soon after that and remained there until his death.

Also, note that I necessarily don't believe Nox's is definitely superior to Dooku. When I say Dooku+ I mean it's probably Dooku level and a case can be made to be superior than that. What prevent me than giving Nox a definite edge against Dooku is that the count's TK also impressed me as much.

I mean, Nox has the combined power of herself and 5 force ghosts. She's pretty legit.

All sub Dooku

All sub Kenobi, besides maybe the Consular and Nox.

You guys don't have the SWTOR protags very high do you? Sub-Kenobi? Really?

Originally posted by MythLord
All sub Kenobi, besides maybe the Consular and Nox.
Consular>HoT? Wut?

Originally posted by darthbane77
You guys don't have the SWTOR protags very high do you? Sub-Kenobi? Really?
They are all pretty shitty tbh

I don't think so, but to each his own I guess.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Consular>HoT? Wut?

You're using ABC logic. The Consular is more likely to abuse, and really have, a power advantage over Kenobi who, due to his conservative/defensive fighting style, wouldn't press Barsen'Thor hard enough for him/her not to abuse said advantage(well he could, but not for a majority).

Originally posted by MythLord
You're using ABC logic. The Consular is more likely to abuse, and really have, a power advantage over Kenobi who, due to his conservative/defensive fighting style, wouldn't press Barsen'Thor hard enough for him/her not to abuse said advantage(well he could, but not for a majority).
Ah okay. I meant raw power wise. Imo at least the HoTlander>'Thor, tho.

Up
In sabers and force.
I am still not sure.

All below Maul.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Up
In sabers and force.
I am still not sure.

You should just read respect threads or look at some of the old debates.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You should just read respect threads or look at some of the old debates.
I've read the Wrath, 'Thor and Nox one, and still can't exactly rank them. Roughtly, yes, but not really good.

Then I suggest you just believe everything I tell you and rank them where I do.

Nox: Force - Approaching Vader level with the ghosts. Sabers - Better than people think. Can hold her own against Ventress, Maul and others.

Thor: Force - On par with Nox, through sheer skill if not power. Sabers - Meh, good enough.

Wrath: Force - Dooku level. Sabers - Dooku level. Possibly higher.

Hero: Better than the rest by a variable amount, in everything.

Lol.
Momentary I have:

Nox
Sabers-a bit below the likes of Ventress
Force: a bit above Maul

Wrath
Sabers: between Ventress and TPM Maul
Force: around Maul

'Thor
Sabers: meh
Force: between Maul and Tyranus

HoT
Sabers: a bit better than Wrath
Force: a bit better than Nox|'Thor, through the HoT>all Jedi Quote

Outlander
Sabers: On par/above TPM Maul, but a notch below RotS Kenobi
Force: a notch below Dooku

Ursumeles, your ranking in the force is acceptable but you're severely underestimating the warriors in sabers.

Each and every one of them is trash pre-KOTFE. On the bright side, they'd all still beat out the Exile.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Ursumeles, you rank in the force is acceptable but you're severely underestimating the warriors in sabers.
Which warriors? I rank Ventress and Maul just a notch below Kenobi/Exile/Mara

Wrath/HoT/MVPlander

Where you would rank them?
The wrath is <=TPM Maul, the HoT>=TPM Maul, and <Outlander<Kenobi

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Which warriors? I rank Ventress and Maul just a notch below Kenobi/Exile/Mara

And you rank Maul above Malgus, even when it was necessary two force sensitive protags plus two of the greatest non force sensitive beings in the galaxy to bring him down?

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Where you would rank them?
The wrath is <=TPM Maul, the HoT>=TPM Maul, and <Outlander<Kenobi

Wrath is sub(but extremely close to) Kenobi, HoT is Kenobi and Highlander is sub Dooku.

1. The fight is full of game mechanics, lel. I've ranked Malgus higher today, he probably approches Tyranus in the Force. Not sure about Sabers, tho.

2. So, I am "severly underestimating" the Wrath in Sabers, because I have him 1/4 tier or so, below where you have him
HoT hasn't done anything on Kenobis level in Sabers, imo. Outlander neither, but I can understand that you have him there.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
1. The fight is full of game mechanics, lel. I've ranked Malgus higher today, he probably approches Tyranus in the Force. Not sure about Sabers, tho.

2. So, I am "severly underestimating" the Wrath in Sabers, because I have him 1/4 tier or so, below where you have him
HoT hasn't done anything on Kenobis level in Sabers, imo. Outlander neither, but I can understand that you have him there.

1. The fact it was necessary the four protags to defeat him doesn't depend on any game mechanics...

2. I have the Maul/RotS Kenobi gap in sabers slightly higher than you, probably.

1. Do you have a quote that sugest that all four were needed?
I mean, Anakin was also enough to beat him alone, Kenobi wasn't necessary.

2. Seems like it.

1. Err...that's basically the point of the flashpoint. Assemble a strike team to defeat Malgus, who is superior to the team members, individually. Anyone who suggests otherwise needs to prove that a smaller team could to the work.

By the same logic they needed 8 people to beat a rancor. So Malgus = half rancor. The ass half.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
1. Err...that's basically the point of the flashpoint. Assemble a strike team to defeat Malgus, who is superior to the team members, individually. Anyone who suggests otherwise needs to prove that a smaller team could to the work.
Interesting. So, Malgus>Act III protags. But that doesn't mean that he could easily beat or ragdoll them.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
By the same logic they needed 8 people to beat a rancor. So Malgus = half rancor. The ass half.

The rancor is an early game flashpoint. ._.

No it's a lvl50 operation. Karagga's Palace.

lol

I saw it on YT. It's pretty BS, zoltan. Even your hatred for anything TOR related must concede that.

Or TOR protags = 1/8 rancor?

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Interesting. So, Malgus>Act III protags. But that doesn't mean that he could easily beat or ragdoll them.

A fair assumption, yeah.

Malgus does ragdoll a good portion of the Strike team, including one of the force users. So he can clearly manage it with some of them at least (I'd say Thor and Wrath are the obvious ones).

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
lol

I saw it on YT. It's pretty BS, zoltan. Even your hatred for anything TOR related must concede that.

Or TOR protags = 1/8 rancor?

Depends on your double standards.

Theres a difference between a mid-boss during a flashpoint and the reason the team was assembled.

Also you need to factor in the armies you have to fight through during flashpoints. The obvious intention of them is that they're missions a single Protag could be overwhelmed by and against serious competition.

Tbfh, while I disagree with Zolta, he is winning the debate, lmao.

I never did that flashpoint. If Neph is correct, though, zoltan's Rancor is irrelevant, since the original objective of the flashpoint wasn't to defeat the Rancor, unlike the FE flashpoint, where the objective is to kill Malgus.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
I never did that flashpoint. If Neph is correct, though, zoltan's Rancor is irrelevant, since the original objective of the flashpoint wasn't to defeat the Rancor, unlike the FE flashpoint, where the objective is to kill Malgus.

The objective was to kill a hutt

In a tank powered by the most powerful energy source in the galaxy.

HoT is the best combatant and arguably the most powerful one amongst them.

As overall combatants:

Outlander - Dooku
HoT - Obi Wan
Barsen'thor - TCW Obi Wan
Wrath II/Nox - Ventress

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Wrath II/Nox - Ventress
???

Well, from someone else's point of view what you're trying to pass (i.e TOR protags = 1/4 Malgus?) could seem equally retarded. Either way it's irrelevant, because the line of logic used to reach those two conclusions is the same is still the same; if you're going to use it in one situation, be prepared for another situation to bite you in the ass.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
???

I think/hope he's trolling.

All the force using protag's before Kotfe are sub-Ventress level.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
I've read the Wrath, 'Thor and Nox one, and still can't exactly rank them. Roughtly, yes, but not really good.

Why don't you compare their against feats and accolades against Kenobi, Ventress and Maul to known where they stack up.

Other than that I don't known what else, other than ask knowledgeable people.

Here are some of the HoT combat accomplishment's:

1. Being almost a Master level duelist as a non-fully trained padawan.

2. Having years of combat experience against force users and non-force users.

3. The HoT skills being considered by the Empire as legendary.

4. Becoming a Battlemaster at early mid 20s.

5. Having unrivaled lightsaber skills.

6. Fighting Arcann to a standstill while hindered and after being slammed into a metal wall and floor.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
As overall combatants:

Outlander - Dooku
HoT - Obi Wan
Barsen'thor - TCW Obi Wan
Wrath II/Nox - Ventress

Which characters from other eras do you have as comparable to the protags, Legend?

Originally posted by Trocity
Which characters from other eras do you have as comparable to the protags, Legend?

Kun, Caedus, Krayt, Plagueis, I imagine.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Kun, Caedus, Krayt, Plagueis, I imagine. He asked Legend, not you. Shut up.

Nox > all Protags sans HoT if we assume he's 'Lander.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
He asked Legend, not you. Shut up.

Originally posted by Petrus
Nox > all Protags sans HoT if we assume he's 'Lander.

Originally posted by Petrus
Nox > all Protags sans HoT if we assume he's 'Lander.
Is Nox your main? Lel.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Is Nox your main? Lel.

Nah, but he is > Wrath and 'Thor.

Originally posted by Petrus
Nah, but he is > Wrath and 'Thor.
SHE!

WHATEVS

Anyone is the strongest if they're the Outlander.

Smuggler included.

Yes, of course, but we are assuming the 'Lander is HoT, yes?

Yes.

Also I personally think Wrath and Thor can certainly compete with Nox.

I just think neither of them would've been able to pull off the absolute stomp Nox performed against Thanaton, and I also think his spirits are too much of an advantage in a conventional duel unless the opponent is far and above Nox, which isn't the case.

Finaly im glad someone touched up on this, but how is HoT the best of all protags?

Killing the embodiment of the Emperor I'm guessing would be the main feat, though Nox does some pretty high level solo work on Voss.

HoT is mad underrated here.

So is Nox tbh.

Originally posted by Trocity
Which characters from other eras do you have as comparable to the protags, Legend?
Considering personal strength, all are above Count Dooku, IMO.

The Outlander appears to be Yoda-TIER with his recent power-progression. On par with Revan at the least.

Ranking Darth Nox is really tricky. With several Force ghosts bind to him, he is a threat to all and would stomp most. Keeping in mind the fact that some Force ghosts mortally wounded Palpatine on Korriban. However, we don't get to see him use such raw power in newer expansions. So he let them go?

Palpatine encountered several of the most prominent sith in history at the same time, that hardly compares to Nox having some ghosts on him.

They're not just described as average level Force-user ghosts, though. I still hold that, based on his utter annihilation of Thanaton and the advantages the ghosts grant him in combat/life, he's well underrated.

I think the Hero is intended to be the most powerful. S/he's outright stated to be the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy on more than one occasion, which would presumably extend to the Barsen'thor, and his feats outstrip Nox's, IMHO. Beating a weakened Vitiate is still legitimately impressive.

I'd say the Hero is on par with Obi Wan (pre-Outlander), which sounds lame to people who don't rate Obi Wan very highly, but I do.

Nowhere is it said that Palpatine was mortally wounded. They nearly killed him, but you can nearly die and still walk away unharmed.

Besides, if anything, that only speaks for the Force Ghosts on Korriban being extremely dangerous - and Palpatine may well have been very young then.

Regardless, it's a fact that Palpatine's many orders of magnitude above the likes of Horak-Mul in life, never mind as a weakened spirit.