Gambit vs Nightwing

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Dareangel
No powers for gambit but he can use his staff. who wins

DarkSaint85
Don't his powers include superhuman agility/speed?

DarkSaint85
http://i.imgur.com/mjJ3CNo.jpg

Nightwing wins.

Genii96
Gambit wins

DarkSaint85
Originally posted by Genii96
Gambit wins

He doesn't have feats without his mutant abilities to fall back on, though.

Dareangel
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He doesn't have feats without his mutant abilities to fall back on, though.

i mean gambit not using his kinetic charges. other than that his stats are his stats

Genii96
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He doesn't have feats without his mutant abilities to fall back on, though.


I assumed the OP meant just his kinetic ability

Dareangel
Originally posted by Genii96
I assumed the OP meant just his kinetic ability

yes exactly. he just cant use his kinetic charges

Supermutant
Originally posted by Dareangel
No powers for gambit but he can use his staff. who wins

So NW can use all his gadgets and equipment but Gambit can't use some of his powers? Why even make this type of match of course NW wins.

NW beats Gambit for a majority even with his powers although it would be much closer.

leonidas
yeah, with remy nerfed like this he doesn't have a chance. powers on it would be very close. not sure who i'd take for a majority. a decent case could likely be made for both but gambit does have some pretty impressive highs using his powers. i'd likely take him.

Zack M
I wonder how effective Grayson's spyral tech would be against Gambit. Did fairly well when he faced Midnighter. And we know Mids would destroy Gamby.

carver9
Nightwing stomps with Gambit being nerfed like this. Give him his powers and things get interesting .

Dareangel
i see people are not giving gambit his credit when it comes to H2H and specially using his staff. i am not saying he wins, however while using only his skills and staff, he defeated sabretooth several times. fought to a stand still with blade and tagged quicksilver with his staff. beat banshee with his staff while deflecting multiple laser shots from forge. people should give ths staff master some credit for his fighting abilities. even if nightwing wins it wont be by any means a stomp.

Dareangel
here is gambit beating up night trasher

Blue Area Vet
Gambit

BruceSkywalker
with or without powers Remy loses

staxamillion
IDK

gambit is a trained by the thieve's guild since birth.

nightwing was trained by batsy since a young child.

IMHO

I think that Nightwing has a greater fight IQ than Gambit but only because he has no powers and gambit is used to using powers than straight up fights.

staxamillion
I give it to nightwing

Sin I AM
Gambit is NOT going to win a feat war. NW has way to many appearances. He SHOULD have a stat advantage though but i cant remember specifically when that was played up.

Stoic
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Don't his powers include superhuman agility/speed?

Yes. A nerf means that Nightwing stomps. With his powers he has too many options, and stomps.

leonidas
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Gambit is NOT going to win a feat war. NW has way to many appearances. He SHOULD have a stat advantage though but i cant remember specifically when that was played up.

gambit was able to achieve near-new sun levels on his own.... a feat war would benefit remy more than it would nw though nw does have some good feats.

Dareangel
Originally posted by Stoic
Yes. A nerf means that Nightwing stomps. With his powers he has too many options, and stomps.

well its not a nerf. gambit just doesnt use his kinetic charges as projectiles its only h2h but he still has all his abilities

Supermutant
Gambit has ran away from Bullseye, and rarely operates at new sun levels. Nightwing has better actual combat feats against other MMAers than Remy.

Dareangel
Originally posted by Supermutant
Gambit has ran away from Bullseye, and rarely operates at new sun levels. Nightwing has better actual combat feats against other MMAers than Remy.

what, no childish trash talk and being triggred? nice chill pills. anyway, gambit doesnt have tons of fighting feats as far as H2H. but as far as i saw, when ever he goes up against someone H2H and with his staff, he is never dominated. well maybe by bullseye, but to be fair bullseye will murder nightwing in a fight.

iceman24567
Originally posted by Dareangel
what, no childish trash talk and being triggred? nice chill pills. anyway, gambit doesnt have tons of fighting feats as far as H2H. but as far as i saw, when ever he goes up against someone H2H and with his staff, he is never dominated. well maybe by bullseye, but to be fair bullseye will murder nightwing in a fight. laughing No

abhilegend
Nightwing will beat Bullseye and Gambit at the same time.

Blue Area Vet
Originally posted by abhilegend
Nightwing will beat Bullseye and Gambit at the same time.

Bullseye would be the peak human out of Nightlight. So would Electra.

Zack M
Originally posted by abhilegend
Nightwing will beat Bullseye and Gambit at the same time.

thumb up

leonidas
bullseye is too inconsistent. at his best showings he could maybe match dick, but not in general. gambit has beaten fantomex in h2h, but he doesn't have many impressive h2h wins. he did perform well against daredevil once and def has some great speed feats. still, it's not enough here i don't think, though i don't think it would necessarily be easy and i don't think dick is beating both gambit and bullseye at the same time.....

again, with powers, i'd take gambit for a slight majority. he wouldn't go new sun and wouldn't have to. he has feats with powers to say he could take this. he lacks those feats in straight h2h where dick has tons of great ones.

Vanguard
With powers I would probably say Gambit. Without powers I still want to pick Gambit, I think he's underrated.

Zack M
What are some of his better HTH fights that he's actually won? I can't remember any off hand, but I haven't been paying attention to Gambit in the last several years. I wouldn't put him in the same league as Grayson.

Genii96
With powers remy stomps.
Without his kinetic charges,I give him a slight majority. He has the physical edge and has handled himself against several mma fighters

Zack M
Originally posted by Genii96
With powers remy stomps.
Without his kinetic charges,I give him a slight majority. He has the physical edge and has handled himself against several mma fighters

Like?

Supermutant
While referring to their fight, Gambit said that Bullseye was better.

http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/3/39150/863016-bullseyegambit3.jpg

Genii96
That was a gambit who had gone days without food or water ,faced scores of assassins during that period, was exhausted and wounded before he faced bullseye. As if that wasn't enough his powers were malfunctioning (his powers also stretches to his physical aspects too ), it even malfunctioned In their fight.

Zack M
Grayson (With Spyral tech) was able to go up against Midnighter. Gambit isn't even close to Midnighter. LOL

Supermutant
Originally posted by Genii96
That was a gambit who had gone days without food or water ,faced scores of assassins during that period, was exhausted and wounded before he faced bullseye. As if that wasn't enough his powers were malfunctioning (his powers also stretches to his physical aspects too ), it even malfunctioned In their fight.

Not entirely true. He wasn't starving or dehydrated. And while he was having trouble controlling his power, he had even more abilities like being able to effect things just by looking at them and to effect organic tissue.

He even says, "even with my expanded powers, I still got it handed to be my Bullseye.

http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29985689_gambitexpandedpowers.jpg

And Constrictor had the advantage on Gambit too until Deadpool shot him. Gambit was still in good enough condition to stalemate Crossbones with a lil help.

StyleTime
Meh, Gambit was afraid of blowing up shit randomly that whole arc. He was manifesting his full powers at the time and had little control over them. He almost blew up Rogue and Colosuss just being mildly upset.

Been a while since I read it, but I'm pretty sure he fought several other B listers right beforehand too. Beating him during that period is an iffy feat.


Nightwing wins with no powers though.

Supermutant
Originally posted by StyleTime
Meh, Gambit was afraid of blowing up shit randomly that whole arc. He was manifesting his full powers at the time and had little control over them. He almost blew up Rogue and Colosuss just being mildly upset.

Yeah he was more powerful, which is mostly my point. Less in control but more powerful, and even stated his control was getting better (seen below) before the Bullseye fight.



It would seem to me that being able to blow things up just by line of sight like Zaran's sword and Batroc's mustache lol, made Gambit a bigger threat than normal. So it would be more impressive to beat him with enhanced powers like Bullseye did.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/2532/638310-gambit16_page14.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/2532/638311-gambit16_page15.jpg
http://www.lediableblanc.com/FriendsFoes/Batroc/p-03.jpg

DarkSaint85
Didn't Gambit recently beat Fantomex?

Although, in the rematch, Fantonex was winning.

Genii96
Originally posted by Supermutant
Not entirely true. He wasn't starving or dehydrated. And while he was having trouble controlling his power, he had even more abilities like being able to effect things just by looking at them and to effect organic tissue.

He even says, "even with my expanded powers, I still got it handed to be my Bullseye.

http://s6d5.turboimg.net/t1/29985689_gambitexpandedpowers.jpg

And Constrictor had the advantage on Gambit too until Deadpool shot him. Gambit was still in good enough condition to stalemate Crossbones with a lil help.


He dosent need to complain for it to be know that going days without food or water will hamper you,nor is fighting entire groups of assassins

In that fight his power malfunctioned, he threw a bunch of exploding cards at bullseye, rather than explode they simply bounced off, BS even caught one of them

Genii96
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Didn't Gambit recently beat Fantomex?

Although, in the rematch, Fantonex was winning.

He had a broken jaw before their rematch though, courtesy of mystique

Supermutant
Originally posted by Genii96
He dosent need to complain for it to be know that going days without food or water will hamper you,nor is fighting entire groups of assassins

I remember Gambit and Rogue going to a bar/restaurant during this arc. So when did Gambit go on this fast? Also it depends on the type of assassins, and Gambit had help from his friends in the Thieves Guild. He had no problems with fodder like Zaran and Batroc, even beat both of them twice.

Originally posted by Genii96
In that fight his power malfunctioned, he threw a bunch of exploding cards at bullseye, rather than explode they simply bounced off, BS even caught one of them

Gambit was also able to survive Bullseye throwing a sai through his chest b/c of his enhanced power. And Gambit said, Bullseye was better, he didn't say Bullseye was better only b/c my powers couldn't be controlled at times during their fight.

http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/0/2532/511744-02.jpg

StyleTime
Originally posted by Supermutant
Yeah he was more powerful, which is mostly my point. Less in control but more powerful, and even stated his control was getting better (seen below) before the Bullseye fight.



It would seem to me that being able to blow things up just by line of sight like Zaran's sword and Batroc's mustache lol, made Gambit a bigger threat than normal. So it would be more impressive to beat him with enhanced powers like Bullseye did.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/2532/638310-gambit16_page14.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/2532/638311-gambit16_page15.jpg
http://www.lediableblanc.com/FriendsFoes/Batroc/p-03.jpg
I gotta disagree. Immediately after the fight you posted, he agrees to get examined at the X Mansion. He says he can't get too excited, or he might lose control.
https://postimg.org/image/9pc67o6ij/

The "more in control" is a relative statement. Charging mustaches is an improvement over randomly charging people/objects like Rogue/Colossus/the pier like here.
https://postimg.org/image/4k6dcb46z/
https://postimg.org/image/ital8483f/

However, he almost blew up Belladonna's arm trying to save her. This is well after the Bullseye incident, indicating he still isn't in control.
https://postimg.org/image/bz8ncgh2h/

Again, after the Bullseye incident, Shadowcat scans Remy and describes his powers as "epileptic."
https://postimg.org/image/gwdv3jhff/

Here, he reveals he's reluctant to cut loose with his new abilities, also after Bullseye. Even in this situation where he might be buried alive, he was still reluctant to use them if he didn't have to.
https://postimg.org/image/y0lzeqakb/


Frankly, the whole arc featured a Gambit afraid and resentful of his power. Belladonna even calls Gambit out for being tentative against his assassins. There's other scans supporting this, but I'm not uploading this whole arc.

It's just a non-feat to beat him in this state man. Gambit's charged cards didn't even explode against Bullseye, and he ran most of the fight. A guy that can blow you up with a thought is clearly not trying if he loses to Bullseye.

StyleTime
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Didn't Gambit recently beat Fantomex?

Although, in the rematch, Fantonex was winning.
I think the problem is trying to separate Gambit from his physical abilities. He's got good h2h feats, but his powers were active in most of them.

Iron Man commented that Gambit is faster than his targeting systems....which is an insane feat. If Gambit is really that fast, maybe it's his speed/agility that allows him to go h2h with high end martial artists like Daredevil.

https://s17.postimg.org/v7rhjxn3v/Gambit_Fasterthan_Iron_Man_Targeting_Comp.jpg

Zack M
Originally posted by StyleTime
I think the problem is trying to separate Gambit from his physical abilities. He's got good h2h feats, but his powers were active in most of them.

Iron Man commented that Gambit is faster than his targeting systems....which is an insane feat. If Gambit is really that fast, maybe it's his speed/agility that allows him to go h2h with high end martial artists like Daredevil.

https://s17.postimg.org/v7rhjxn3v/Gambit_Fasterthan_Iron_Man_Targeting_Comp.jpg

Midnighter (DCnU) has similar feats and is faster than Gambit, yet Grayson held his own. Hell, he even fooled his computer brain, which is even more of a insane feat.

Genii96
Originally posted by StyleTime
I think the problem is trying to separate Gambit from his physical abilities. He's got good h2h feats, but his powers were active in most of them.

Iron Man commented that Gambit is faster than his targeting systems....which is an insane feat. If Gambit is really that fast, maybe it's his speed/agility that allows him to go h2h with high end martial artists like Daredevil.

https://s17.postimg.org/v7rhjxn3v/Gambit_Fasterthan_Iron_Man_Targeting_Comp.jpg

The OP clarified that only his kinetic charges are not allowed,his physicals are.
He has also caught a fired bullet,and thrown it back,among other feats

Zack M
Originally posted by Genii96
The OP clarified that only his kinetic charges are not allowed,his physicals are.
He has also caught a fired bullet,and thrown it back,among other feats

Not that impressive. Mids changed his clothes into his costume so fast, nobody saw it and this was when several people were firing their ammo. Grayson went up against that type of speed.

Supermutant
Originally posted by StyleTime
I gotta disagree. Immediately after the fight you posted, he agrees to get examined at the X Mansion. He says he can't get too excited, or he might lose control.
https://postimg.org/image/9pc67o6ij/

The "more in control" is a relative statement. Charging mustaches is an improvement over randomly charging people/objects like Rogue/Colossus/the pier like here.
https://postimg.org/image/4k6dcb46z/
https://postimg.org/image/ital8483f/

However, he almost blew up Belladonna's arm trying to save her. This is well after the Bullseye incident, indicating he still isn't in control.
https://postimg.org/image/bz8ncgh2h/

Again, after the Bullseye incident, Shadowcat scans Remy and describes his powers as "epileptic."
https://postimg.org/image/gwdv3jhff/

Here, he reveals he's reluctant to cut loose with his new abilities, also after Bullseye. Even in this situation where he might be buried alive, he was still reluctant to use them if he didn't have to.
https://postimg.org/image/y0lzeqakb/


Frankly, the whole arc featured a Gambit afraid and resentful of his power. Belladonna even calls Gambit out for being tentative against his assassins. There's other scans supporting this, but I'm not uploading this whole arc.

It's just a non-feat to beat him in this state man. Gambit's charged cards didn't even explode against Bullseye, and he ran most of the fight. A guy that can blow you up with a thought is clearly not trying if he loses to Bullseye.

Your own scans showed Gambit's enhanced power being able to affect Colossus and Rogue. That's a feat by itself. And he used his powers against Batroc the jobber and Zaran the jobber master on another occasion. Also against Constrictor and vs Crossbones, Remy blew up his guns by just looking at them.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124784/3576403-crossbonesvsgambit1.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124784/3576404-crossbonesvsgambit2.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124784/3576405-crossbonesvsgambit3.jpg

I am also waiting for evidence that Gambit wasn't eating or drinking for many days before fighting Lester.

We can just disagree on the rest, but I think the fact that he could heal himself and affect organic tissue made him more dangerous even with sometimes having control issues.

StyleTime
The issue wasn't whether or not the power affected Rogue/Colossus. The issue was whether or not Gambit controlled it. He didn't. His power flared up randomly when he was under stress. His powers worked later against different opponents as he gained more control. That's irrelevant to the whole Bullseye thing though.

I'm not really sure what you're disagreeing with at this point. Bullseye fought a Gambit who's powers, on panel, malfunctioned mid-fight while Gambit was actively trying to avoid the battle. Just because they kicked in long enough for Gambit to survive a stab, again without retaliating, doesn't make him a threat.

It's just not a feat for Bullseye. It's worth about as little as Fat Cobra vs Deadpool.

carver9
Originally posted by Zack M
Midnighter (DCnU) has similar feats and is faster than Gambit, yet Grayson held his own. Hell, he even fooled his computer brain, which is even more of a insane feat.

This kind of debating is weird. Ironman is faster, stronger, and more durable than Midnighter and Nightwing and Gambit held his own. You see how debating like this means nothing.?

Anyways, this is a handicap match and Nightwing stomps.

Supermutant
Originally posted by StyleTime
The issue wasn't whether or not the power affected Rogue/Colossus. The issue was whether or not Gambit controlled it. He didn't. His power flared up randomly when he was under stress.

Actually the issue is whether Gambit not being in full control of his enhanced power made him more or less dangerous. The majority of evidence I have seen shows him more of a threat being able to bypass both Colossus and Rogue's durability casually.

Originally posted by StyleTime
His powers worked later against different opponents as he gained more control. That's irrelevant to the whole Bullseye thing though.

After Beast ran tests on Gambit, he stated that Gambit was "much more powerful....faster, stronger, and in perpetual biokinetic hyperactivity. So that means Remy stats were increased regardless of whether he had complete control.

http://s6d4.turboimg.net/t1/29992074_Gambitismuchmorepowerful.jpg

Originally posted by StyleTime
I'm not really sure what you're disagreeing with at this point. Bullseye fought a Gambit who's powers, on panel, malfunctioned mid-fight while Gambit was actively trying to avoid the battle. Just because they kicked in long enough for Gambit to survive a stab, again without retaliating, doesn't make him a threat.

I'm actually agreeing with Gambit's own thoughts and statements. I have already shown where he stated Bullseye was better w/out any conditions to that. Furthermore, Remy said that he couldn't beat Lester even with his enhanced power. Gambit was actively trying to avoid battle b/c he didn't think he could win against Bullseye. But he fought Crossbones b/c he believed he could, malfunctioning enhanced power or not.

Originally posted by StyleTime
It's just not a feat for Bullseye. It's worth about as little as Fat Cobra vs Deadpool.

It is a good feat for Bullseye to defeat Gambit with enhanced powers so convincingly and so fast. It was also mentioned that Remy had never been beaten that badly.

http://s6d4.turboimagehost.com/t/29992073_Gambithasneverbeenbeatenthisbadly.jpg

Also it is interesting that a lot of times when this Arc is brought up, some people act like Gambit was powerless, helpless, starving, and dehydrated. In addition they make claims like Gambit was fighting the most elite assassins in the world single-handedly. When on panel evidence shows him with greatly enhanced power, others like the Thieves Guild helping him, and fighting mostly jobbers. I'm still waiting on any proof about him not eating or drinking for days prior to fighting Bullseye.

StyleTime
Originally posted by Supermutant
Actually the issue is whether Gambit not being in full control of his enhanced power made him more or less dangerous. The majority of evidence I have seen shows him more of a threat being able to bypass both Colossus and Rogue's durability casually.
He's not more dangerous if his power is failing, and he's not fighting back. Here's the Bullseye fight before the scan you posted of him kicking Gambit off the building.
https://postimg.org/image/rr1ey31xl/
https://postimg.org/image/u9n3yrnnt/
Originally posted by Supermutant
It is a good feat for Bullseye to defeat Gambit with enhanced powers so convincingly and so fast. It was also mentioned that Remy had never been beaten that badly.
He doesn't try to explode Bullseye by thinking about it. He doesn't try to go intangible. He doesn't teleport. He threw a sweep then runs to avoid the fight. How is this a feat for Bullseye?

You're raving about extra powers he never used on Bullseye because they weren't working at the time. In their particular fight, Gambit's powers failed and he tried to run. It isn't a good feat. There was no fight.
Originally posted by Supermutant
Also it is interesting that a lot of times when this Arc is brought up, some people act like Gambit was powerless, helpless, starving, and dehydrated. In addition they make claims like Gambit was fighting the most elite assassins in the world single-handedly. When on panel evidence shows him with greatly enhanced power, others like the Thieves Guild helping him, and fighting mostly jobbers.
And again, in addition to wonky powers, he was reluctant to use them, as shown repeatedly throughout the arc. Gambit could have wiped out the assassins with a thought, but he held back. He admits it here.
https://postimg.org/image/cwrenshax/

New Sun points out Gambit was also exhausted and disoriented during the whole ordeal.
https://postimg.org/image/7q24s3pc9/
Originally posted by Supermutant
I'm still waiting on any proof about him not eating or drinking for days prior to fighting Bullseye.
I never said any of that.

Vanguard
I forgot how fast Gsmbit is. Yea, he takes it

Zack M
Originally posted by Vanguard
I forgot how fast Gsmbit is. Yea, he takes it

LOL! No. Midnighter is much faster, yet Grayson did decently well against him.

StyleTime
Ah, I see what you're saying.

Midnighter has trouble with skilled fighters. Good to know. 131

Zack M
Grayson has had a good push lately. He also stalemated Batman, as well.

With Midnighter, he never actually defeated him, but he kept up with him pretty well. With help from Spyral tech, of course.

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