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I feel Exar Kun's placement is more baselessly accepted than actually first being critically examined.

His feats (stalemating Droma, killing Vodo) certainly don't place him as the top dog, nor do his accolades.

And his unorthodoxy is specific for the time period, who weren't familiar with double-bladed lightsabers like later eras.

It's not even like he invented the double-bladed lightsaber at this point, with SWTOR having Sith thousands of years prior wielding it.

Because he shits gold.

I never really understood it either.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
I never really understood it either.

Who actually compares?

Tulak Hord, Freedom Nadd, Revan, Arcann, and the Outlander.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Tulak Hord, Freedom Nadd, Revan, and the Outlander.
What dueling feats does Nadd have? Hord has only accolades :/
Also, Outlander and Revan are ancient!?

Nadd's at least comparable. He performed admirably against Tremayne before growing vastly in power. He then slays Sadow.

And so? He's the greatest of the pre-Exar Kun Sith Lords in dueling, tore through armies of Jedi on the battlefield, etc.

The time gap between Revan and Kun are mere decades. So, yeah. Note I'm referring to pre-Banite characters as "ancient."

Sure is Nadd comparable.
Yeah, but that didn't place him >Kun, imo.
Fair enough. For me is only pre-Kun or pre-KOTOR ancient.
Its hard for me to rank rhe Outlander and Revan as duelists.

All Carthage asked was who "compares," not who's better.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66 His feats (stalemating Droma, killing Vodo) certainly don't place him as the top dog, nor do his accolades.

Kun could've stalemated Droma for hours on end. That means not a single mistake on either combatant's part, no openings, nothing. A showing like that has only been replicated by Mace Windu and Darth Sidious during their duel, when they were noted to be locked in an eternal stalemate. If that doesn't place him as the top ancient, I don't know what will.



Except that Kun's style is fundamentally different from the traditional saber staff fighting style. Literally any foe from any era who's not exponentially faster than Kun would be left scrambling against him.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nadd's at least comparable. He performed admirably against Tremayne before growing vastly in power. He then slays Sadow.

And so? He's the greatest of the pre-Exar Kun Sith Lords in dueling, tore through armies of Jedi on the battlefield, etc.

The time gap between Revan and Kun are mere decades. So, yeah. Note I'm referring to pre-Banite characters as "ancient." Tbh, Kreia doesn't even say the Ancients, she just said "Sith Lords" when referring to Hord.

With Avellone backing her up, we can assume that means shes calling him (Quite Possibly) the best sith duelist up to that point.

Originally posted by Azronger
Kun could've stalemated Droma for hours on end. That means not a single mistake on either combatant's part, no openings, nothing. A showing like that has only been replicated by Mace Windu and Darth Sidious during their duel, when they were noted to be locked in an eternal stalemate. If that doesn't place him as the top ancient, I don't know what will.
What? That's like saying Tol Braga and Sajar are the greatest duelists in history since they literally stalemated for three *days* straight.


Ah, enlighten me how that's the case, because changing lightsaber blades isn't unique, nor is applying Trakata into your style.

Both of those techniques can be predicted and adjusted by any powerful Force user with danger sense or precognition.

I guess because they outright state that he is the most powerful of his lineage.

Most people imply that his lineage is the ancients, due to him being repeatedly called one.

But they also called Revan an "Ancient Force User" in TOR.

Which, if true, makes him the best.

This is gonna be heresy to some, but . . .

Revan could take Kun in sabers. :P

Heresy!

I could buy Hord being above just by hype and Traya's insinuations.

Exar Kun has:

a) His saber prodigiousness in inventing his double bladed style
b) His ENORMOUS lead over everyone else in his era in his prime
c) His shattering of beskar
d) His demonstrated strength in the Force

From that, I put him at ~ Dooku as a duelist.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I could buy Hord being above just by hype and Traya's insinuations.

Exar Kun has:

a) His saber prodigiousness in inventing his double bladed style
b) His ENORMOUS lead over everyone else in his era in his prime
c) His shattering of beskar
d) His demonstrated strength in the Force

From that, I put him at ~ Dooku as a duelist.

a.) I don't think he invented it. Rather he got it based off of Naga Sadow's teachings.

b.) There's no enormous disparity between him and Droma, really.

c.) I recall him only being capable of doing that by raising his lightsaber intensity to the max. I also thought Nadd helped him.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
a.) I don't think he invented it. Rather he got it based off of Naga Sadow's teachings.


Really?



Didn't Kun grow more powerful after they had stalemated?



I could've sworn he shattered it with his hands. AP would know.

I never seen a quote that he invented it, whereas we know everything else he did was based on Sadow.

Yeah, but so did Ulic-Qel Droma, I imagine. It's said Kun had to unleash all his power and tricks to defeat Vodo, who didn't even want to kill him.

Are you referring to the shattering of the Mandalorian door? He did that with his lightsaber.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I never seen a quote that he invented it, whereas we know everything else he did was based on Sadow.

Yeah, but so did Ulic-Qel Droma, I imagine. It's said Kun had to unleash all his power and tricks to defeat Vodo, who didn't even want to kill him.

Are you referring to the shattering of the Mandalorian door? He did that with his lightsaber. Sadow used a Sith Sword though.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Tulak Hord, Freedom Nadd, Revan, Arcann, and the Outlander. I'm actually in a debate atm about why Revan is > Kun as a duelist.

Kys kys kys. Exar is just better

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Sadow used a Sith Sword though.
His teachings likely contained information on lightsabers too.

The double-bladed lightsaber dates back to the time of King Adas.

Originally posted by darthbane77
I'm actually in a debate atm about why Revan is > Kun as a duelist.
For reference, then:

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/cav-revan-darthant66-vs-exar-kun-dccomicsrule2011-1682402/?page=1#js-message-14831135

The Hotlander is the greatest ancient duelist if not Kun

People coming after Revan definitely aren't considered "ancients", though. Even Kun himself isn't considered the member of the Ancient Sith for instance (and "ancients" are usually thought to be people living in Ancient Sith times), just more powerful than all of them according to a sourcebook. At best, Exar/Vodo/Ulic are the last of the ancient folks in Star Wars.

Not to mention that if people from TOR were considered ancients too, Exar would barely register, lol. Several Sith are clearly above him among TOR as Force users, for instance Vitiate as Emperor, Malgus, Nyriss, Marr, Thanaton, Nox, Wrath, Jadus, Scourge, Angral, Baras, First Son, Ekkage, many others.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
His teachings likely contained information on lightsabers too.

The double-bladed lightsaber dates back to the time of King Adas.

Lightsabers weren't around during Adas' time though.

It came darksabers, then protosabers, then lightsabers, IIRC.

However I don't think protosabers were around during Adas' time.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
For reference, then:

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/cav-revan-darthant66-vs-exar-kun-dccomicsrule2011-1682402/?page=1#js-message-14831135 Nice, thanks.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Lightsabers weren't around during Adas' time though.

It came darksabers, then protosabers, then lightsabers, IIRC.

However I don't think protosabers were around during Adas' time.
Retconned by SWTOR.

Sith imprisoned alongside Soa were armed with standard double-bladed lightsabers.

Because Ulic Qel-Droma shitstomped Warb Null on a dark side nexus before becoming 'immensely' more powerful, Warb Null was stated to have been an excellent swordsman before he'd even become Warb Null. Warb Null then become much more powerful, was stated to have mastered the dark side and had gained the combative memories of Freedon Nadd and King Adas from the armor itself.

Fast forward a few years and Ulic has become 'immensely' more powerful, with powers 'far greater' than any of the Krath, and was already one of the most powerful Sith ever. Ulic is a Luke Skywalker archetype, he can use great powers externally but he is mainly an internal powerhouse who shows it through his Force augmentation.

When fighting Kun he is enraged by Sith poison and is obviously further enraged by Kun's attack on Aleema Keto. So this was an absolutely all-out Ulic who in a far less powerful state can stomp guys like Warb Null.

Then Exar Kun doesn't just get more powerful after this fact, he gets ancient Sith combat techniques from the most powerful Sith holocron in the mythos, the Dark Holocron. This is where he obtains designs for his unique saberstaff variant and ancient Sith fighting styles. The very same teachings that Kreia states renders the modern era duelists infantile in their skills.

As far as Vodo Siosk-Baas goes, he is stated to have never stood a chance against Exar Kun's 'deep reserves' of power and his saberstaff. More importantly, I struggle to think how exactly Vodo is incapable of countering Kun's saberstaff, when he uses the weapon in the same fashion as a quarter staff, the very weapon Vodo Siosk-Baas not only uses but is a Jedi Weapon Master for his mastery over it.

Kun is certainly the greatest, given he was capable of stalemating a Sith as powerful as Ulic Qel-Droma for hours before growing much more powerful at a fast rate after gaining the Dark Holocron and then completely reworking his fighting style so as to adopt ancient Sith combat techniques from the single greatest source of Sith information in the mythos, makes him pretty much one of the most all around solid duelists ever.

Lol