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Not sure if this has been done before. Can anyone help me create a list of the best strategists in Star Wars? I'm not just talking about the top ten or twenty. I'd like to make a tier ranking list.

You may have to separate it also into Ground and Space strategists.

Revan, Anakin/Vader, Thrawn, and there are more that I can't think of at the moment.

Snoke.



Maul.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Snoke.



Maul. Maul I agree with, he was a great planner. Snoke is ass.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Maul I agree with, he was a great planner. Snoke is ass. So you hold no respect for the First Order. Get the **** out.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you hold no respect for the First Order. Get the **** out. I never said that. I said Snoke is ass, not the First Order. And your constant hard on for the First Order and associated characters makes your objectivity ass as well.

Originally posted by darthbane77
I never said that. I said Snoke is ass, not the First Order. And your constant hard on for the First Order and associated characters makes your objectivity ass as well. Snoke runs the First Order you biased ****. First Order>>>empire.

Just because he's running the FO, doesn't make him a strategist. Just saying.

Thrawn
Akbar
Revan
Vader
Palpatine
Obi-wan
Maul

Originally posted by quanchi112
Snoke runs the First Order you biased ****. First Order>>>empire. That means literally nothing. It indicates he can run a military organization, but as for strategy it suggests nothing. You're calling ME bias? I'm not the stupid mother****er who tries to argue that Kylo Ren is > Vader.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Just because he's running the FO, doesn't make him a strategist. Just saying. So you believe he doesn't use strategy ??

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you believe he doesn't use strategy ??

Considering he hasn't shown to use strategy in battle, given his only appearance is a holo?...Yeah...

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you believe he doesn't use strategy ?? We have seen NOTHING to suggest that Snoke has any skill in battle strategy.

Originally posted by darthbane77
That means literally nothing. It indicates he can run a military organization, but as for strategy it suggests nothing. You're calling ME bias? I'm not the stupid mother****er who tries to argue that Kylo Ren is > Vader. He strategically runs the military organization. He seduced Ben Solo to the dark side.

In terms of evil **** yes. When he completes his training via Snoke prepare to be awed, ****.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He strategically runs the military organization. He seduced Ben Solo to the dark side.

In terms of evil **** yes. When he completes his training via Snoke prepare to be awed, ****. Running a military organization doesn't amount to being a skilled strategist himself. Seducing Ben Solo to the Dark Side is literally something EVERY MOTHER****ING SITH has attempted to do to a Jedi at least once, so that is meaningless in regards to strategy. In terms of evil Kylo is about the same level as my puppy, he TRIES to be an ******* and utterly fails at doing so in comparison to Vader. Baseless claim with no evidence to suggest truth.

Vader looks more like a tactician than a strategist, tbh.

Originally posted by playa1258
Thrawn
Akbar
Revan
Vader
Palpatine
Obi-wan
Maul

Grievous goes in right under Revan. He very rarely lost a battle. That's why Sidious recruited him.

Originally posted by darthbane77
We have seen NOTHING to suggest that Snoke has any skill in battle strategy. Did you see the film ?

Where he showed 0 battle strategy.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Running a military organization doesn't amount to being a skilled strategist himself. Seducing Ben Solo to the Dark Side is literally something EVERY MOTHER****ING SITH has attempted to do to a Jedi at least once, so that is meaningless in regards to strategy. In terms of evil Kylo is about the same level as my puppy, he TRIES to be an ******* and utterly fails at doing so in comparison to Vader. Baseless claim with no evidence to suggest truth. Palpatine failed at Vader turning on Luke. Snoke succeeded since he killed his own father. You are being rather emotional.

Kylo killing his father is far better than weak Vader. He also looked like he still cared about Tano. The guy went back to the light so he was too much a pussy to remain on the dark side.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Where he showed 0 battle strategy. Nah.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Nah.

Ok so tell me...where was he shown commanding troops or laying out a plan for a battle?

Palpatine

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Ok so tell me...where was he shown commanding troops or laying out a plan for a battle? He commanded Hux. Do you know anything about the chain of command ? Does a general need to be on the front line to get credit for battle strategy ?

Originally posted by Rebel95
Palpatine Rotj proves you wrong. He served up the empire on a platter to the rebels.

Originally posted by Rebel95
Palpatine

The best by far.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Did you see the film ? You mean the film where he showed up a whole two ****ing times and did nothing in the way of battle strategy whatsoever?

Originally posted by darthbane77
You mean the film where he showed up a whole two ****ing times and did nothing in the way of battle strategy whatsoever? Just admit you didn't see the film. It's pretty obvious.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Palpatine failed at Vader turning on Luke. Snoke succeeded since he killed his own father. You are being rather emotional.

Kylo killing his father is far better than weak Vader. He also looked like he still cared about Tano. The guy went back to the light so he was too much a pussy to remain on the dark side. Palpatine succeeded on Vader, it took the knowledge that he didn't kill his child bring him back to reality, Kylo almost flat out regretted killing Han based on the novel. He didn't care about Tano, he tried to kill her even after Ahsoka gave him the chance to stop fighting. I'm not being emotional, I'm trying to get my point across to somebody that's blinded by bias and lack of any decent reasoning skills.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He commanded Hux. Do you know anything about the chain of command ? Does a general need to be on the front line to get credit for battle strategy ?

....You didn't answer my question, he didn't show planning out strategies in the movie.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Just admit you didn't see the film. It's pretty obvious. I watched the film 4 times in theatres and at least 3-5 times since then. Maybe YOU need to re-watch the film.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Palpatine succeeded on Vader, it took the knowledge that he didn't kill his child bring him back to reality, Kylo almost flat out regretted killing Han based on the novel. He didn't care about Tano, he tried to kill her even after Ahsoka gave him the chance to stop fighting. I'm not being emotional, I'm trying to get my point across to somebody that's blinded by bias and lack of any decent reasoning skills. So you believe Vader killing Palpatine is Palpatine succeeding ? Really ?

Kylo didn't show remorse at all. He did it Vader didn't so Snoke succeeded whereas Palpatine didn't. Success to you is dying by your apprentice and I'm the one with shitty reasoning skills. Oh the irony.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
....You didn't answer my question, he didn't show planning out strategies in the movie. Yes, he did.

Originally posted by darthbane77
I watched the film 4 times in theatres and at least 3-5 times since then. Maybe YOU need to re-watch the film. Prove it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you believe Vader killing Palpatine is Palpatine succeeding ? Really ?

Kylo didn't show remorse at all. He did it Vader didn't so Snoke succeeded whereas Palpatine didn't. Success to you is dying by your apprentice and I'm the one with shitty reasoning skills. Oh the irony. Kylo felt remorse in the novel. Read my comment and don't pick and choose what you wanna hear, that's a sign that you know you're losing. ****ing moron.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Prove it. You mean like you're proving all your points? In that case, my word is enough and needs no substantiation; like your opinions, NO SUBSTANTIATION.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Kylo felt remorse in the novel. Read my comment and don't pick and choose what you wanna hear, that's a sign that you know you're losing. ****ing moron. Whether he felt remorse or not it's irrelevant. He was still evil and still trying to kill the good guys. Vader flipped sides so Palpatine totally and utterly failed you illiterate pile of horseshit.

You clearly didn't see the film because you insist Snoke didn't use any strategy.

Originally posted by darthbane77
You mean like you're proving all your points? In that case, my word is enough and needs no substantiation; like your opinions, NO SUBSTANTIATION. I have film corroboration to back my claims. You have your bloody vagina as your evidence. I argue based off film facts not my feelings you degenerate.

Let's make this interesting. Let's make a wager you naysayers.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Whether he felt remorse or not it's irrelevant. He was still evil and still trying to kill the good guys. Vader flipped sides so Palpatine totally and utterly failed you illiterate pile of horseshit.

You clearly didn't see the film because you insist Snoke didn't use any strategy. Lol. BECAUSE HE DIDN'T USE ANY ****ING STRATEGY! He left EVERYTHING up to Hux to complete in whatever way Hux saw fit. He have like two orders in the entirety of the film. I will love to see your reaction when Kylo goes back to the light, you ****ing idiot. You obviously have seen the film MINIMAL times and even then only chose to see what you wanted to see, and completely ignore everything Vader has ever done that was evil. Biased mother****ing shitheel.

Sidious, Thrawn, Obi Wan, Grievous

Originally posted by darthbane77
Lol. BECAUSE HE DIDN'T USE ANY ****ING STRATEGY! He left EVERYTHING up to Hux to complete in whatever way Hux saw fit. He have like two orders in the entirety of the film. I will love to see your reaction when Kylo goes back to the light, you ****ing idiot. You obviously have seen the film MINIMAL times and even then only chose to see what you wanted to see, and completely ignore everything Vader has ever done that was evil. Biased mother****ing shitheel. That's clearly misinformation. Hux goes to him at the end of the film when the base is being destroyed. He also clearly gave orders to Kylo the entire film without Hux present and with those two vehemently opposed to one another.

Kylo killed his father Vader didn't kill his son. These are facts get your shitty speculation of what might happen out of here, ****. Vader appearing as a force ghost for the light isn't evil you pile of shit. He redeemed himself at the end you inbred redneck.

Snoke: Our strategy must now change.

Almost fifty minutes in the film you idiots who denied he used strategy in the film. This is just really poor cognition since he even states the obvious by strategy and change in the film.

Apologies may now commence.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's clearly misinformation. Hux goes to him at the end of the film when the base is being destroyed. He also clearly gave orders to Kylo the entire film without Hux present and with those two vehemently opposed to one another.

Kylo killed his father Vader didn't kill his son. These are facts get your shitty speculation of what might happen out of here, ****. Vader appearing as a force ghost for the light isn't evil you pile of shit. He redeemed himself at the end you inbred redneck. Yes, he redeemed himself AT THE END. After TWENTY+ years of evil shit. Vader's evil deeds outweigh Kylo's by numbers alone, not to mention by magnitude; but I guess you conveniently forgot about that. Snoke gives orders to Kylo because Kylo is his apprentice, Snoke doesn't strategize any battles whatsoever; he tells Hux to do it. "Prepare the weapon", "find Kylo Ren", "Get the droid" simple orders; orders that were turned into objectives strategized by those who STARTED AND OVERSAW THE OPERATION. Snoke giving the basic order DOES NOT equate to strategy, you blind son of a *****. Your bias is cancerous, and your ignorance of any facts concerning Vader are even more so.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Yes, he redeemed himself AT THE END. After TWENTY+ years of evil shit. Vader's evil deeds outweigh Kylo's by numbers alone, not to mention by magnitude; but I guess you conveniently forgot about that. Snoke gives orders to Kylo because Kylo is his apprentice, Snoke doesn't strategize any battles whatsoever; he tells Hux to do it. "Prepare the weapon", "find Kylo Ren", "Get the droid" simple orders; orders that were turned into objectives strategized by those who STARTED AND OVERSAW THE OPERATION. Snoke giving the basic order DOES NOT equate to strategy, you blind son of a *****. Your bias is cancerous, and your ignorance of any facts concerning Vader are even more so. This isn't about longevity it's about Snoke being more successful than Palp. Vader killed Palp. That's not successful that's failure of the worst kind.

Look at you changing the topic. It isn't about complicated tasks you tool. A great teacher simplifies things. He was in charge and he strategized. Hux followed his commands.

You ignoring his words in limited screen time to try to troll your way through a debate denying on screen factual data won't be ignored. Snoke is the guy who strategizes and the one who tells Hux what to do when the shit hits the fan. Snoke is the supreme leader of the entire first order you pile of cousin spawned shit.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Snoke: Our strategy must now change.

Almost fifty minutes in the film you idiots who denied he used strategy in the film. This is just really poor cognition since he even states the obvious by strategy and change in the film.

Apologies may now commence. Key word, OUR strategy; as in the First Order's, not his alone. Again, misinterpreting on purpose to serve your own poorly thought out opinions.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Key word, OUR strategy; as in the First Order's, not his alone. Again, misinterpreting on purpose to serve your own poorly thought out opinions. Yes, as they were a part of his team the first order. He is the supreme leader of the first order. What does supreme and leader mean to you ? You can't possibly be this retarded.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This isn't about longevity it's about Snoke being more successful than Palp. Vader killed Palp. That's not successful that's failure of the worst kind.

Look at you changing the topic. It isn't about complicated tasks you tool. A great teacher simplifies things. He was in charge and he strategized. Hux followed his commands.

You ignoring his words in limited screen time to try to troll your way through a debate denying on screen factual data won't be ignored. Snoke is the guy who strategizes and the one who tells Hux what to do when the shit hits the fan. Snoke is the supreme leader of the entire first order you pile of cousin spawned shit. "More successful than Palpatine", guess that's why Snoke has a galaxy spanning Empire and was able to wipe out the Jedi Order in its prime...oh wai, that was PALPATINE. Again, giving the order and making the plan is not the same; making the plan is strategizing; not giving the order to make a plan.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, as they were a part of his team the first order. He is the supreme leader of the first order. What does supreme and leader mean to you ? You can't possibly be this retarded.

Let's look at it this way, the President of the United States gives orders to the Generals in the military right? The President says, "we need to capture this place or this person" and then he commands the general to do so. The GENERAL is then the one that goes about allocating resources and making the plan to complete said objective, THAT is strategizing. Snoke is the president, he tells them what to do; but THEY decide how to do it.

Originally posted by darthbane77
"More successful than Palpatine", guess that's why Snoke has a galaxy spanning Empire and was able to wipe out the Jedi Order in its prime...oh wai, that was PALPATINE. Again, giving the order and making the plan is not the same; making the plan is strategizing; not giving the order to make a plan. Palpatine served up his empire on a platter. The only reason he was successful was because Anakin saved his life because Windu decimated him and had him dead to rights. Palpatine used Vader and his army in secret to blind side the weak Jedi order.

Approving a plan you agree with because you're the leader makes you a great leader. When starkiller fell apart Hux needed direction from his leader Snoke.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Let's look at it this way, the President of the United States gives orders to the Generals in the military right? The President says, "we need to capture this place or this person" and then he commands the general to do so. The GENERAL is then the one that goes about allocating resources and making the plan to complete said objective, THAT is strategizing. Snoke is the president, he tells them what to do; but THEY decide how to do it. That is clearly false as we see Snoke is clearly overseeing the battle strategy and is the guy Hux runs back to when the resistance destroyed Starkiller base.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Palpatine served up his empire on a platter. The only reason he was successful was because Anakin saved his life because Windu decimated him and had him dead to rights. Palpatine used Vader and his army in secret to blind side the weak Jedi order.

Approving a plan you agree with because you're the leader makes you a great leader. When starkiller fell apart Hux needed direction from his leader Snoke.

Approving a plan you agree with doesn't make him a great leader, it means he agreed with the plan; that's it. Lol @ Windu decimating him, the only reason Windu won is because of Vapaad; and even then it can be argued that Sidious let him win.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Approving a plan you agree with doesn't make him a great leader, it means he agreed with the plan; that's it. Lol @ Windu decimating him, the only reason Windu won is because of Vapaad; and even then it can be argued that Sidious let him win. Yes, it does. When you're a leader you know when to defer and when to lead. Snoke is a great leader as evidenced by the First Order aka his rise to power, his seduction of Kylo Ren, and the accomplishments of the First Order.

Speculation. Windu won and Palpatine lost. He begged like a *****.

Don't let him kill me. Palpatine.

Keep running, darth bane.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, it does. When you're a leader you know when to defer and when to lead. Snoke is a great leader as evidenced by the First Order aka his rise to power, his seduction of Kylo Ren, and the accomplishments of the First Order.

Speculation. Windu won and Palpatine lost. He begged like a *****.

Don't let him kill me. Palpatine. We know nothing surrounding the creation of the First Order, it simply means he was powerful enough or had a high enough rank to gather the remnant of the Empire under his control. Deferring to somebody who knows more about a subject than you do is not sign of being a good leader, it's common ****ing sense. The fact that Vapaad was the reason Windu "won" that fight isn't speculation when Sidious has feats and accolades a swordsman surpassing non-Vapaad amped Windu's. I see you also failed to counter my comparison comment, which means you obviously have nothing to counter it with.

Originally posted by darthbane77
We know nothing surrounding the creation of the First Order, it simply means he was powerful enough or had a high enough rank to gather the remnant of the Empire under his control. Deferring to somebody who knows more about a subject than you do is not sign of being a good leader, it's common ****ing sense. The fact that Vapaad was the reason Windu "won" that fight isn't speculation when Sidious has feats and accolades a swordsman surpassing non-Vapaad amped Windu's. I see you also failed to counter my comparison comment, which means you obviously have nothing to counter it with. Deferring to anyone under you is great leadership. A leader not listening to people underneath him if they agree is Trumpesque. That's clearly false. Hux went to him when his plan went awry. Snoke is the leader and the one in charge of the final decisions.

Speculation. Windu won. Quit being biased and excusing the poor performance by Sidious.

What comparison comment ?

Vader also convinced Palpatine not to kill Luke. How did that turn out for him ? I guess Palpatine was the worst since he let his subordinate change his mind which resulted in his death.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Deferring to anyone under you is great leadership. A leader not listening to people underneath him if they agree is Trumpesque. That's clearly false. Hux went to him when his plan went awry. Snoke is the leader and the one in charge of the final decisions.

Speculation. Windu won. Quit being biased and excusing the poor performance by Sidious.

What comparison comment ?

Vader also convinced Palpatine not to kill Luke. How did that turn out for him ? I guess Palpatine was the worst since he let his subordinate change his mind which resulted in his death.


You're speculating that Windu won without any aid from Vapaad, hypocrite. Again, Snoke has ZERO instances where he strategized events on a battlefield. He can't be a great strategist if he has no feats concerning strategy, giving orders and letting suboordinates do what they want isn't strategy. NOTHING you've said about him suggests a strategic mind. "Let's look at it this way, the President of the United States gives orders to the Generals in the military right? The President says, "we need to capture this place or this person" and then he commands the general to do so. The GENERAL is then the one that goes about allocating resources and making the plan to complete said objective, THAT is strategizing. Snoke is the president, he tells them what to do; but THEY decide how to do it." This was my comparison comment, which you failed to counter effectively.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That is clearly false as we see Snoke is clearly overseeing the battle strategy and is the guy Hux runs back to when the resistance destroyed Starkiller base.

This was your response to it, the only argument you made was a bullshit argument based on something that never happened. We HAVE NOT seen Snoke strategize a battle.

I accept your silence as concession.

(no order)
To name a few:
Thrawn, Palpatine, Xizor, Ackbar, Anakin, Luke, Mon Mothma

Originally posted by Kurk
Mon Mothma

Originally posted by Zenwolf

sorry, was trying to appease the femi(nazis)nists

Originally posted by darthbane77
You're speculating that Windu won without any aid from Vapaad, hypocrite. Again, Snoke has ZERO instances where he strategized events on a battlefield. He can't be a great strategist if he has no feats concerning strategy, giving orders and letting suboordinates do what they want isn't strategy. NOTHING you've said about him suggests a strategic mind. "Let's look at it this way, the President of the United States gives orders to the Generals in the military right? The President says, "we need to capture this place or this person" and then he commands the general to do so. The GENERAL is then the one that goes about allocating resources and making the plan to complete said objective, THAT is strategizing. Snoke is the president, he tells them what to do; but THEY decide how to do it." This was my comparison comment, which you failed to counter effectively.

This was your response to it, the only argument you made was a bullshit argument based on something that never happened. We HAVE NOT seen Snoke strategize a battle. No, you are misrepresenting my position. You made the claim he only won due to vapaad. I said he won which is a fact. If you want to prove the why then the onus is on you.

He oriented his galactic forces position. I never said in the midst of battle he used strategy. He was off world during the entire film you dumbass. He agreed with Hux's ideas. That's deferring and ultimately allowing it to take place.

Snoke isn't like a president. He is the one who will finish Ren's training and he obviously possesses knowledge in the force which could be pivotal in using an enhanced awareness to aid in strategy.

Yes, we have. We just haven't seen him be on the battlefield yet due to him being off world.

Originally posted by darthbane77
I accept your silence as concession. Think again, dweeb. I already have Snoke's quote from the film.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, you are misrepresenting my position. You made the claim he only won due to vapaad. I said he won which is a fact. If you want to prove the why then the onus is on you.

He oriented his galactic forces position. I never said in the midst of battle he used strategy. He was off world during the entire film you dumbass. He agreed with Hux's ideas. That's deferring and ultimately allowing it to take place.

Snoke isn't like a president. He is the one who will finish Ren's training and he obviously possesses knowledge in the force which could be pivotal in using an enhanced awareness to aid in strategy.

Yes, we have. We just haven't seen him be on the battlefield yet due to him being off world. Allowing others to make the plans is not strategizing, as I have said numerous times. You obviously don't understand what strategizing actually is. He let others make the plans, that's a fact. I guess I shouldn't expect any better from somebody that thinks Kylo>Vader and First Order>Empire though, somebody with these opinions already has some issues to work through.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Allowing others to make the plans is not strategizing, as I have said numerous times. You obviously don't understand what strategizing actually is. He let others make the plans, that's a fact. I guess I shouldn't expect any better from somebody that thinks Kylo>Vader and First Order>Empire though, somebody with these opinions already has some issues to work through. We see him strategize himself and oversee all final decisions. He told Hux what to do when they lost the base aka strategizing.

In terms of evil absolutely. Vader fell victim to the light. What a pussy.

The empire was laughable at best. Look at how routinely awful they are in the films, rebels series, etc.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We see him strategize himself and oversee all final decisions. He told Hux what to do when they lost the base aka strategizing.

In terms of evil absolutely. Vader fell victim to the light. What a pussy.

The empire was laughable at best. Look at how routinely awful they are in the films, rebels series, etc. So telling Hux to go find Kylo is strategizing? Lol no, that's a simplistic command; not a strategy. Not even in terms of evil, Kylo will eventually return to the light as Vader did; and Vader did countless evil things far worse than Kylo killing Han. "The Empire was laughable at best", lol no. ANH, they were ORDERED to suck, in Empire they ****ing WON and they curbed the Rebellion at Hoth, in ROTJ they lost because Sidious' attention was taken off of using Battle Meditation or something like that. They lost in ROTJ for a reason, that Thrawn couldn't explain, if I remember correctly. They suck in the Rebels series because it's a goddamn kid's show you stupid shit.

Originally posted by darthbane77
So telling Hux to go find Kylo is strategizing? Lol no, that's a simplistic command; not a strategy. Not even in terms of evil, Kylo will eventually return to the light as Vader did; and Vader did countless evil things far worse than Kylo killing Han. "The Empire was laughable at best", lol no. ANH, they were ORDERED to suck, in Empire they ****ing WON and they curbed the Rebellion at Hoth, in ROTJ they lost because Sidious' attention was taken off of using Battle Meditation or something like that. They lost in ROTJ for a reason, that Thrawn couldn't explain, if I remember correctly. They suck in the Rebels series because it's a goddamn kid's show you stupid shit. Regrouping is a strategy. Speculation but what we know now is he eclipsed Vader in evil.

Sidious delivered the empire in his arrogance as well as handed himself ver to the skywalkers like a true schmuck. In ESB Vader failed to covert or bring in Luke. Laughable. They didn't kill anyone vital to the rebels group in ESB.

The movies are kids films as well so quit making excuses as to why you can't accept facts. You're a biased curr.

Darth bane doesn't know what a battle strategy even is. You're an idiot.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Regrouping is a strategy. Speculation but what we know now is he eclipsed Vader in evil.

Sidious delivered the empire in his arrogance as well as handed himself ver to the skywalkers like a true schmuck. In ESB Vader failed to covert or bring in Luke. Laughable. They didn't kill anyone vital to the rebels group in ESB.

The movies are kids films as well so quit making excuses as to why you can't accept facts. You're a biased curr.

1- Regrouping is common sense, but I will concede that specific instance was a somewhat strategic move; it still hardly justifies him being compared to the likes of Revan, Thrawn and Vader.

2- Vader failing to convert Luke is laughable? ****ing how? Luke witnessed Vader kill Ben and Vader had just cut his ****ing hand off, I'd say Luke wouldn't have been to eager to join up with the guy that killed his mentor and then mutilated him.

3- The movies aren't strictly kid's movies, some of them are PG-13; that's not a kid's movie.

4- How am I not accepting facts when you haven't said anything that was a fact? You're so biased that you can't even see it.

Originally posted by darthbane77
1- Regrouping is common sense, but I will concede that specific instance was a somewhat strategic move; it still hardly justifies him being compared to the likes of Revan, Thrawn and Vader.

2- Vader failing to convert Luke is laughable? ****ing how? Luke witnessed Vader kill Ben and Vader had just cut his ****ing hand off, I'd say Luke wouldn't have been to eager to join up with the guy that killed his mentor and then mutilated him.

3- The movies aren't strictly kid's movies, some of them are PG-13; that's not a kid's movie.

4- How am I not accepting facts when you haven't said anything that was a fact? You're so biased that you can't even see it. 1. So you concede to me. Great. I do not argue non canon. Canon only. Vader blew it big time in all three films.

2. Vader was the one seduced to change teams not Luke. Vader was weak and not even genuine unto himself which made him a lifetime fraud. Weak.

3. They were made as kids films so what ? You tried to cite that as an excuse for poor performances. Quit ignoring the facts.

4. How am I biased ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
1. So you concede to me. Great. I do not argue non canon. Canon only. Vader blew it big time in all three films.

2. Vader was the one seduced to change teams not Luke. Vader was weak and not even genuine unto himself which made him a lifetime fraud. Weak.

3. They were made as kids films so what ? You tried to cite that as an excuse for poor performances. Quit ignoring the facts.

4. How am I biased ?

I didn't concede the argument, I granted you a small victory in a entire debate's worth of defeat. Yet Vader still did more evil shit than Kylo has done. The movies are meant for all ages, not just kids. Rebels IS a kid's show, they can't make the Empire as powerful as they were in other mediums because the Rebels would fail instantly. You're biased because you keep arguing that Snoke was a good strategist despite making ONE somewhat strategic call and claiming that Kylo is more evil than Vader despite Vader doing things far worse than Kylo killing Han. Can you really be this ****ing stupid?

Originally posted by darthbane77
I didn't concede the argument, I granted you a small victory in a entire debate's worth of defeat. Yet Vader still did more evil shit than Kylo has done. The movies are meant for all ages, not just kids. Rebels IS a kid's show, they can't make the Empire as powerful as they were in other mediums because the Rebels would fail instantly. You're biased because you keep arguing that Snoke was a good strategist despite making ONE somewhat strategic call and claiming that Kylo is more evil than Vader despite Vader doing things far worse than Kylo killing Han. Can you really be this ****ing stupid? Vader had more time to do so but when the time came he failed to turn on his son. When Ben Solo's time came he achieved greatness. Same as the shows, dumbass.

Your opinion isn't a fact. Quit speculating. Your opinion doesn't matter. Accept they are shit because they clearly are.

Killing your own family member is more evil than killing a non family member. Han Solo loved his son. Luke loved his father but Vader failed. He's a piece of shit. Glad he died in dark side shame.

Hyping up a guy that will be destroyed by Luke

Originally posted by playa1258
Hyping up a guy that will be destroyed by Luke You also claimed Luke was going to wreck him in the first film. You're a massive fanboy who just barks without any real intelligence behind anything.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Vader had more time to do so but when the time came he failed to turn on his son. When Ben Solo's time came he achieved greatness. Same as the shows, dumbass.

Your opinion isn't a fact. Quit speculating. Your opinion doesn't matter. Accept they are shit because they clearly are.

Killing your own family member is more evil than killing a non family member. Han Solo loved his son. Luke loved his father but Vader failed. He's a piece of shit. Glad he died in dark side shame.

So killing ****ing children is better than killing an aging Han Solo? Thank God, somebody tell the Sandy Hook killer that. Lol, your logic is so ****ed it's not even funny. Again, Kylo didn't feel at all like he thought he was going to upon Han's death; he felt physically bad, almost sick. Instead of a rush of power or strength like he expected he felt a rush of "I feel like a total dick right now." You wanking Kylo and underraing Vader is irrelevant to fact. I think I'm about done with this debate, you obviously too mother****ing retarded to have any intelligent conversation or even remotely see any form of reason. Your bias is obvious, and I'm not the only one that doesn't take you seriously. You're a piece of shit, your opinions are shit, your logic and reasoning are shit. Now, I feel like having an INTELLIGENT discussion with somebody who actually has an idea of what they're ****ing talking about.

Originally posted by darthbane77
So killing ****ing children is better than killing an aging Han Solo? Thank God, somebody tell the Sandy Hook killer that. Lol, your logic is so ****ed it's not even funny. Again, Kylo didn't feel at all like he thought he was going to upon Han's death; he felt physically bad, almost sick. Instead of a rush of power or strength like he expected he felt a rush of "I feel like a total dick right now." You wanking Kylo and underraing Vader is irrelevant to fact. I think I'm about done with this debate, you obviously too mother****ing retarded to have any intelligent conversation or even remotely see any form of reason. Your bias is obvious, and I'm not the only one that doesn't take you seriously. You're a piece of shit, your opinions are shit, your logic and reasoning are shit. Now, I feel like having an INTELLIGENT discussion with somebody who actually has an idea of what they're ****ing talking about. No, it isn't since those weren't his kids. He killed his own father. HIS OWN.

Your opinion is worthless. That's fine he recognized the conflict since he's genuine unlike Vader who had self denial going on until the bitter end.


You had a meltdown and conceded a point to me which makes me the winner. If you can't be a man and debate me then begone you Jezebel. Snoke as I said followed by Maul.


http://67.media.tumblr.com/0ab6c4465bd856859d654eb3b5b70789/tumblr_inline_o3285kWq6S1qaxads_500.gif

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, it isn't since those weren't his kids. He killed his own father. HIS OWN.

Your opinion is worthless. That's fine he recognized the conflict since he's genuine unlike Vader who had self denial going on until the bitter end.


You had a meltdown and conceded a point to me which makes me the winner. If you can't be a man and debate me then begone you Jezebel. Snoke as I said followed by Maul.


http://67.media.tumblr.com/0ab6c4465bd856859d654eb3b5b70789/tumblr_inline_o3285kWq6S1qaxads_500.gif Lol, you haven't seen me meltdown yet asshat. I'm not debating anymore because this is going in circles, you keep spouting bullshit and I keep proving you wrong. It's not a debate, it's a cluster****. You haven't won shit, I'm simply refusing to feed the troll any longer.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Lol, you haven't seen me meltdown yet asshat. I'm not debating anymore because this is going in circles, you keep spouting bullshit and I keep proving you wrong. It's not a debate, it's a cluster****. You haven't won shit, I'm simply refusing to feed the troll any longer. Your opinion isn't proof. You ignore that Vader failed against his son while Ben Solo triumphed against his father. That's a similar situation to a family member who loves you. One rose to the occasion one didn't. Kylo had the villagers all executed at the beginning but they meant nothing to him so why bring about murdering strangers you dumb****.

You conceded to me you weak pile of goldfish crap. I win.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Your opinion isn't proof. You ignore that Vader failed against his son while Ben Solo triumphed against his father. That's a similar situation to a family member who loves you. One rose to the occasion one didn't. Kylo had the villagers all executed at the beginning but they meant nothing to him so why bring about murdering strangers you dumb****.

You conceded to me you weak pile of goldfish crap. I win. Vader killed ****ing kindergartners you ****ing idiot. That alone is worse than anything Kylo has done, you keep acting like Kylo killing Han is some great achievement when it isn't; especially considering he felt like shit afterwards. I didn't concede shit, because I don't acknowledge you as being correct; simply because you aren't. I simply don't feel like arguing with somebody obviously suffers from down syndrome.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Vader killed ****ing kindergartners you ****ing idiot. That alone is worse than anything Kylo has done, you keep acting like Kylo killing Han is some great achievement when it isn't; especially considering he felt like shit afterwards. I didn't concede shit, because I don't acknowledge you as being correct; simply because you aren't. I simply don't feel like arguing with somebody obviously suffers from down syndrome. So what ? He failed against his son. Your values are ignoring the similarity of my comparison by your values of kindergarteners. How old are you ? You seem awfully young and stupid.

So what how he felt he knew it was going to be hard. Snoke told him he never faced such a test. Kylo tried killing Han's friends after.

You conceded he did strategize which I claimed. I backed it and you took it like Dooku upon his death.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You also claimed Luke was going to wreck him in the first film. You're a massive fanboy who just barks without any real intelligence behind anything.

Get your excuses ready.

Originally posted by playa1258
Get your excuses ready. You said that for the last film. You also claimed batman v superman was going to be awesome. You're bad at this.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So what ? He failed against his son. Your values are ignoring the similarity of my comparison by your values of kindergarteners. How old are you ? You seem awfully young and stupid.

So what how he felt he knew it was going to be hard. Snoke told him he never faced such a test. Kylo tried killing Han's friends after.

You conceded he did strategize which I claimed. I backed it and you took it like Dooku upon his death. Killing a family member isn't worse than slaughtering a group of kids, Han lived a full life; and he was ONE person, there is no comparison. Vader killed more people, younger people who hadn't had a chance to grow or becoming anything; he ended them before they should have died. That is a tragedy far greater than anything Kylo committed. That's basic morals right there, morals and logic. Anakin ended several young lives full of potential, that's a far greater evil than ending the life of an aging Han Solo. The entire purpose of what you're arguing is that Snoke is some great strategist, considering you named him alongside the likes of Maul. Snoke has nothing putting him at that level, nothing.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Killing a family member isn't worse than slaughtering a group of kids, Han lived a full life; and he was ONE person, there is no comparison. Vader killed more people, younger people who hadn't had a chance to grow or becoming anything; he ended them before they should have died. That is a tragedy far greater than anything Kylo committed. That's basic morals right there, morals and logic. Anakin ended several young lives full of potential, that's a far greater evil than ending the life of an aging Han Solo. The entire purpose of what you're arguing is that Snoke is some great strategist, considering you named him alongside the likes of Maul. Snoke has nothing putting him at that level, nothing. That is your opinion. Values are different as are opinions my stupid little friend. Ben killed his father. Anakin failed to let his son die. In a similar situation Ben triumphed. Morals vary culture to culture you tool.

Snoke achieved a galactic force. You don't think that's worth anything but you're an idiot.

Palpatine played both sides against each other in the Clone Wars, destroyed the Jedi Order and ruled the galaxy for over 20 years. He is damn good at strategy.

What has Snoke done again? Oh yeah, he ordered a evacuation of SK base. He is so impressive...

Originally posted by playa1258
Palpatine played both sides against each other in the Clone Wars, destroyed the Jedi Order and ruled the galaxy for over 20 years. He is damn good at strategy.

What has Snoke done again? Oh yeah, he ordered a evacuation of SK base. He is so impressive... Palpatine laid in wait but was still helpless before Windu despite years of plotting in the shadows while working with his enemy. He's good at hiding and avoiding conflict unless he can order someone else to do his dirty work. We see he wanted no part of Yoda.

Snoke is the big bad of the more impressive First Order. Palpatine is that guy killed by his own one handed apprentice.

Palpatine curbstomped Maul.

Choke on that. Had him crying like a little *****.

Originally posted by playa1258
Palpatine curbstomped Maul.

Choke on that. Had him crying like a little *****. He won but he was better than Maul in combat at that time. I do not deny facts.

Maul lived and learned. He's still alive decades later by himself. He's amazing but Palpatine goes on to be killed by his one handed apprentice.

Palpatine had a 20 year run of dominance. Snoke has not matched that so far.

Originally posted by playa1258
Palpatine played both sides against each other in the Clone Wars, destroyed the Jedi Order and ruled the galaxy for over 20 years. He is damn good at strategy.

What has Snoke done again? Oh yeah, he ordered a evacuation of SK base. He is so impressive... Don't bother with him, he's a moron and his bias clouds his judgement in everything.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Don't bother with him, he's a moron and his bias clouds his judgement in everything. Ironic coming from the guy who quit after he conceded to me.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ironic coming from the guy who quit after he conceded to me. Funny considering I didn't concede shit and you didn't win shit.

Not my fault you don't know what strategizing means you illiterate ****tard.

Thrawn
Palpatine
Vader
Revan.....idk how good he is but ive heard stories so im gonna put him here
Tarkin

*Ackbar is in there somewhere but im not sure, most definitely above tarkin imo

Originally posted by darthbane77
Funny considering I didn't concede shit and you didn't win shit.

Yes, you did. You posted you conceded. I accept.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Not my fault you don't know what strategizing means you illiterate ****tard. You conceded I gave an example thus you didn't know what it meant.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You conceded I gave an example thus you didn't know what it meant. No, conceding a debate is when you acknowledge your opponent is correct. Your argument was based on your unsubstantiated opinion that Snoke was a good strategist, what you proved is that he used a COMMON strategy ONCE. You have yet to prove that Snoke is some great strategist, and so you haven't won anything.

Thrawn. Ackbar. Palpatine. Bel Iblis. As of legends.

Originally posted by darthbane77
No, conceding a debate is when you acknowledge your opponent is correct. Your argument was based on your unsubstantiated opinion that Snoke was a good strategist, what you proved is that he used a COMMON strategy ONCE. You have yet to prove that Snoke is some great strategist, and so you haven't won anything. I already proved it by simple reasoning and logic. He amassed the First Order, put leaders in place to help him achieve his agenda, and is the one both Hux and Ren had to go to when the shit hit the fan. Snoke is serious business and FYI. Onc you concede you have to exit the debate, buckaroo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I already proved it by simple reasoning and logic. He amassed the First Order, put leaders in place to help him achieve his agenda, and is the one both Hux and Ren had to go to when the shit hit the fan. Snoke is serious business and FYI. Onc you concede you have to exit the debate, buckaroo. "Simple reasoning and logic" had no place in any of your arguments. Good thing I didn't concede anything, as I've already said. You're just too stupid o realize that, if this is a debate you want to continue having than do it on the new post I made last night.

Thrawn

Palpatine

Vergere

Akbar

Pellaeon

Originally posted by darthbane77
"Simple reasoning and logic" had no place in any of your arguments. Good thing I didn't concede anything, as I've already said. You're just too stupid o realize that, if this is a debate you want to continue having than do it on the new post I made last night. You said he didn't use strategy at all in the films. You conceded to my point. I was right you were wrong, bucko.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Palpatine failed at Vader turning on Luke. Snoke succeeded since he killed his own father. You are being rather emotional.

Kylo killing his father is far better than weak Vader. He also looked like he still cared about Tano. The guy went back to the light so he was too much a pussy to remain on the dark side.

If Quan had any credibility, I mean even the slightest edit, he just lost it. He showed: ignorance, apathy, lack of understanding, and didn't back his claim.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
If Quan had any credibility, I mean even the slightest edit, he just lost it. He showed: ignorance, apathy, lack of understanding, and didn't back his claim. Pretty much yeah.

Originally posted by Raptor22
Thrawn

Palpatine

Vergere

Akbar

Pellaeon

why do you put vergereon that list? just curious.

Originally posted by Darth Demenos
why do you put vergereon that list? just curious. i was thinking oitside of just military strategy with her.

I put her up there for her subtle manipulations of the vong for the decades as a "prisoner" with them. How she was able to go back and forth between the vong the jedi manipulating them to her own ends, culminating with turning Jacen and bringing the sith back to power in the galaxy.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
If Quan had any credibility, I mean even the slightest edit, he just lost it. He showed: ignorance, apathy, lack of understanding, and didn't back his claim. What claim ? You're ridiculous, kid.