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Who do you rank higher as a result of Maul's low showings becoming more common? After we become aware of how Maul was tooled by Ezra, who in Legends/Canon would you rank above him and why? Why do yout think Filoni has turned Maul into a Grievous in terms of consistency in fights?

I rank all legends characters above him, bar some BT Characters

I think it's more reasonable to conclude that a) Ezra has improved considerably or b) Maul has declined in his old age than to retroactively nerf all of his previous accomplishments.

It's unfair to bash Maul just because Ezra. Dude didn't even know about the force until a year ago and is already hitting TCW Ahsoka level feats. His growth rate is insane and the power creep is just gonna keep coming. At the rate he's going, it wouldn't surprise me if he was Galen Marek level by the end of the series. It's obvious Filoni is really trying to set him up to be some big powerhouse. Maybe even give him a good showing against Vader.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I think it's more reasonable to conclude that a) Ezra has improved considerably or b) Maul has declined in his old age than to retroactively nerf all of his previous accomplishments.
Why not both? Lel.

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
It's unfair to bash Maul just because Ezra.

It's not just about Ezra. It's about Ezra, Kanan, Kenobi, Sugi, and Embo's ****ing dog.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
It's not just about Ezra. It's about Kenobi
Tbf, TPM Kenobi was already one of the most skilled swordsmen of all time, and only has beaten Maul through CIS/PIS.

I'm aware of TPM Kenobi's status, Maul still lost to a padawan tho hmph

maul is a failure
dooku is a cuck
vader as anakin was a mentally unstable piece of shit

man, palpatine really had bad luck with apprentices lmao

It's obvious that Maul lets Ezra subdue him and perhaps even try to strike him down because that would mean that the latter would give into his anger (and come closer to the Dark Side). All this Maul lowballing is getting quite tiresome...

Maul has always been fodder. Role call :

Siolourmanka - Stomped Maul in Round One, died to a cheap trick in Round Two

Mighella - A random Nightsister who gave it good until her weapon broke. My guess is that a longer contest between them might end up with Maul tripping over

Darsha Assant - Just another Padawan that nearly killed him

TPM Kenobi - Beat maul via superior speed

Kenobi again - Sent him and his brother pining for the nearest cyberneitc surgeon in a battle that literally cost them an arm and a leg

Embo's Attack Dog - nearly killed him

Sidious - Obviously

Kanan - Was unable to blind him with a direct lightsaber hit to the face, and then trips over

Ezra - Trips over backwards into some boxes

When I complete my basic exercises, I power up my double-bladed lightsaber and practice maneuvers. My body is as strong as durasteel and as fluid as water. I shift from one position of attack to another. I fall on one knee and slash my lightsaber as I imagine cleaving my victim cleanly. I roll away and grip my lightsaber with both hands for a vertical sweep. I leap and twist and come down, leading with my left shoulder. I deliver a death blow and leap away, somersaulting in the air. I perform ten thousand slashes, lunges, attacks.

My lightsaber is no longer a separate weapon, but part of my arm. I move in the time it would take my opponent to blink. I move in the time he would take to raise his weapon. He would only see the space where I had been. He would feel the sudden shock of the blow that would knock him to the floor. I do these maneuvers a hundred times a day. I do them even though my body knows them intimately, even though I have not made a mistake or a misstep in years. I do them until the memory of the movement is part of the muscle itself. The goal of the Sith is to fight without thought.
--Episode I Journal: Darth Maul















...
















https://media.giphy.com/media/ZT8hztpnWecQE/giphy.gif

F**king terrible.

Originally posted by Trocity
F**king terrible.

Not to mention he was downed by a dog. How's that Quanchi?

And struggled to get dog off himself.

Your problem first of all is trying to mix Legends and Canon. Rebels is a Canon only medium, meaning you can't take Maul's Legends showings and try to apply them as it just doesn't work. TPM and TCW seeing as they are Canon, is what should be used if discussing Rebels.

This will all be funny when he rapes Vader's ass.

Originally posted by Kurk
Not to mention he was downed by a dog. How's that Quanchi?
Have you ever seen Star Wars before ? Can Bane defeated Kenobi. This notion that non Jedi types can't stand before the Jedi is ridiculous. Maul is amazing. These showings are further proof of Maul's unwavering determination against greatly skilled opponents.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
This will all be funny when he rapes Vader's ass.

So never?

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
So never?
Few weeks

Just like all those other opponents he raped...like..well...I'm sure someone will come to mind.

Opress
Qui-Gon
Vizsla

All opponents Maul battered in Canon.

But no, he will never compete on Vader's level. Given Vader's the guy who battered Dooku long before before his Prime.

Originally posted by chingchangwalla
Few weeks

You plan to write a fanfic then?

LMAO

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Just like all those other opponents he raped...like..well...I'm sure someone will come to mind. Ironic since suited Vader crushed who again ?

https://media.giphy.com/media/ZT8hztpnWecQE/giphy.gif

http://i.makeagif.com/media/3-25-2015/v7-PeH.gif

That gif is cut short; Cad is disarmed literally half a second later.

Unlike Maul, who misses half a dozen slashes on a helplessly grounded opponent.

You can see the disarming in the GIF as well, lmfao.

I think Quan selected the wrong seconds to make a GIF, lol. He was probably going for Cad electrocuting Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by Trocity
That gif is cut short; Cad is disarmed literally half a second later.

Unlike Maul, who misses half a dozen slashes on a helplessly grounded opponent. You do realize what happens after the gif, right ? He gets electrocuted, bro.

Originally posted by SunRazer
You can see the disarming in the GIF as well, lmfao.

I think Quan selected the wrong seconds to make a GIF, lol. He was probably going for Cad electrocuting Obi-Wan. People seem to forget Ventress also had Anakin and Kenobi at the mercy of a force choke by an inferior opponent. I will combat this Maul hatred as only a true fan would.

Originally posted by Trocity
https://media.giphy.com/media/ZT8hztpnWecQE/giphy.gif


Jeez Maul lowballing is going to new heights here.

He's Kenobi's peer and equal. There's just as many "embarrassing" moments for Kenobi as there are for Maul in Filoni's animation. Filoni is consistent.

Tbh, my respect for Maul is going lower and lower as time goes by. I have a feeling S3 won't help.

Originally posted by Petrus
Tbh, my respect for Maul is going lower and lower as time goes by. I have a feeling S3 won't help.


Let's face it, the real recent abomination that's put him down in everyone's book is him losing to Blind Kanan. But that's only made me lose respect for Filoni tbh. Maul's own standing hasn't actually changed due to that. Witwer and even FPJ have made it clear Kanan/Ezra's partial training are no match for Maul's classical training.

Filoni's just been a turd though, because he would never let that happen to his precious Ahsoka.

Filoni's dumb and shouldn't be trusted with writing Star Wars, period. How many times did he retcon Legends continuity? That was probably the largest factor in the Legends/Canon split.

We've yet to even consider how varied his characters are in terms of ability. Consistency is a completely foreign concept to him.

^ Nah Legends split was a management and business decision by Disney in what would be best for them. And tbh it was the best decision for them.

In fact they only kept Canon what Lucas made them keep as Canon. I'm betting that keeping TCW and updated versions of the films as Canon was in the purchase contract.

^ You really want that? You know his views on ROTJ Luke right?

Agree with most of what you've said. But making the highlight villain of Ep.1 into a chump is no minor thing that doesn't matter. I'm sure you wouldn't feel that way if he shitted on Vader. And I know Filoni wouldn't give Ahsoka that kind of treatment. Heck he sounds like he's going to treat Thrawn with more respect than he's given Maul.

There's no room for bias. As a story teller he should pay each character their deserved level of respect, and of course serve the story first over any bias.

Sure I do. But I care more about good entertaining stories than power levels.

@Ares
I also care for good stories more then power levels. That's why I love Stover, Luceno and Ostrander. And hate Filoni.

Republic comic series along with short Jedi series (Count Dooku and Mace Windu especially) had better stories then Filoni can ever hope to write. He has a few good stories during TCW, but majority of them is naive and annoying.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Let's face it, the real recent abomination that's put him down in everyone's book is him losing to Blind Kanan. But that's only made me lose respect for Filoni tbh. Maul's own standing hasn't actually changed due to that. Witwer and even FPJ have made it clear Kanan/Ezra's partial training are no match for Maul's classical training.

It's pretty clear Kanan and Ezra were no match for Maul in S2, but it seems pretty clear that either of them will defeat him eventually.

Spilers form the Ahsoka novel.

"Ahsoka confronts Maul, and manages to get him Angry/fired up enough to leap forward and strike her. She uses this method to lure him to an area where the clones had helped her set up a trap. Once maul entered within a certain area, Ray shields were engaged, locking maul where he was."

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarscanon/comments/55uaqh/spoilers_just_finished_my_ahsoka_novel_heres_a/

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/0d/fc/2a/0dfc2a20bc05496b8ab2aebb22daabef.jpg

At first I was like "I don't want spoilers", but then I realized I'm never gona read that pile of crap anyway.

So that makes it 4 padawans now. Poor MaulQuanchi.

At this point anyone who takes Maul seriously is a ****ing idiot, lol

Lmao. In all seriousness my opinion of Maul as a lightsaber combatant in comparison to RotS Kenobi has legitimately gone down by a decent margin.

Well I think I can guess what this is about.

Might just take a peek.

EDIT: Lol, Maul just being a clown, disappointing.

NO BEANIE!!! ;-;

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
NO BEANIE!!! ;-;
Wtf, lmfao.

Originally posted by ares834
Spilers form the Ahsoka novel.

"Ahsoka confronts Maul, and manages to get him Angry/fired up enough to leap forward and strike her. She uses this method to lure him to an area where the clones had helped her set up a trap. Once maul entered within a certain area, Ray shields were engaged, locking maul where he was."

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarscanon/comments/55uaqh/spoilers_just_finished_my_ahsoka_novel_heres_a/

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/0d/fc/2a/0dfc2a20bc05496b8ab2aebb22daabef.jpg So what ?

Originally posted by carthage
At this point anyone who takes Maul seriously is a ****ing idiot, lol Spoken from the troll known as Carthage. Your word doesn't mean shit around here, dummy.

Maul sucks, man. Get over it.

Originally posted by Trocity
Maul sucks, man. Get over it. Rots Anakin and Rots Kenobi were both trapped in ray shields as well. Think, man.

Don't see anything that embarrassing there tbh. If young Ahsoka just beat him in straight up combat or sliced up his legs again, then that would be embarassing. But here she just lures him into a trap with the help of clones.


Originally posted by Petrus
It's pretty clear Kanan and Ezra were no match for Maul in S2, but it seems pretty clear that either of them will defeat him eventually.


Going by Witwer's words plus the Kenobi revelation, that's unlikely to happen now tbh. Unless it's like, he fights Kenobi and Ezra joins in or cheap shots him from behind, or some other BS.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Don't see anything that embarrassing there tbh. If young Ahsoka just beat him in straight up combat or sliced up his legs again, then that would be embarassing. But here she just lures him into a trap with the help of clones.

It is pretty embarrassing, even in the context of a fight. It's the equivalent of waving a red flag to a bull, or more appropriately, a laser pointer to a cat. If Maul is susceptible to the types of antics that would ensnare animals, then he's left open to a range of borderline cases that could undermine his skill in a fight. You know that people are starting to add a suffix after Maul's name with a meme now? It goes a little something like this

- "Maul trips over and impales himself on his lightsaber"

It might sound ridiculous, but is it really? Especially when there are several instances where he's suffered loss of composure and loss of limb due to general incompetence.

Given Maul's gotten the better of Kenobi in the past by enraging him, I really don't see the issue. Unless Kenobi's also a bafoon bull whose susceptible to anyone raising a red flag.

And geez how easy was Anakin to enrage and make a clumsy move? High Ground anyone?

But like I said, at least in this scenario Maul wasn't beaten in direct 1 v 1 combat. Guarantee it was Filoni's idea anyway. Kissing up to his daughter Ahsoka as usual.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Given Maul's gotten the better of Kenobi in the past by enraging him, I really don't see the issue. Unless Kenobi's also a bafoon bull whose susceptible to anyone raising a red flag.

Yeah, that's called Dun Moch and it's power extends past the use of emotive language to spike a reatcion in it's victim. I doubt Ashoka would be versed in such a technique classically used by the Sith, so I'm not retracting any points from Obi Wan for a case that's hardly comparable, on the other hand, this sort of thing completely undermines the rigorous training Maul underwent at the hands of Sidious to build discipline.



Anakin is certainly no role model aspiring the virtues of wisdom and common sense. On the contrary, this is a guy who was tricked into joining the dark side-out of desperation, I don't see anyone handing him a nobel prize. Everyone knows Anakin is a cocky piece of shit, but at least he didn't have the high ground and still get cut in half.



It is very much another L in Maul's court. It is true, Maul didn't get shat on in a physical confrontation, but really, has the bar of expectation been set so low, that a sigh of relief is let out eveytime doesn't get the crap kicked out of him by a teenager? Oh how times have changed.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Yeah, that's called Dun Moch and it's power extends past the use of emotive language to spike a reatcion in it's victim. I doubt Ashoka would be versed in such a technique classically used by the Sith, so I'm not retracting any points from Obi Wan for a case that's hardly comparable, on the other hand, this sort of


Calling it Dun Moch (a word not so far used in Canon I believe) doesn't change the substance of what happened. Maul got Kenobi off balance by enraging him. Now if that can happen to such a usually calm, noble and experienced Jedi such as Kenobi, then it's really not surprising in the least that Maul, a psychotic dark sider whose lost everything, could also be susceptible to someone attempting to do the same to him.

People are just jumping on this as we're in a period of "let's laugh at Maul" thanks to Filoni.


Originally posted by Ziggystardust


Anakin is certainly no role model aspiring the virtues of wisdom and common sense. On the contrary, this is a guy who was tricked into joining the dark side-out of desperation, I don't see anyone handing him a nobel prize. Everyone knows Anakin is a cocky piece of shit, but at least he didn't have the high ground and still get cut in half.





Anakin being an easily enraged, cocky Jedi is probably the closest Jedi example though. And it's not just Desperate Dark Side Anakin. One shot by Dooku in AOTC anyone?

The fact that Anakin does have that weakness, but has also shown he's very intelligent in battle, and has won many a war via his tactical genius, shows that just because Maul can get cocky and clumsy at times does not mean he's without intellect, or that he'll lose to anyone.

And come on, the getting cut in half by Obi-Wan again? Talk about going back to Day1 lowballing arguments. The fact that Maul had the high ground just proves it was a completely surprise attack, as Obi-Wan couldn't even defeat Maul on neutral ground.


Originally posted by Ziggystardust

It is very much another L in Maul's court. It is true, Maul didn't get shat on in a physical confrontation, but really, has the bar of expectation been set so low, that a sigh of relief is let out eveytime doesn't get the crap kicked out of him by a teenager? Oh how times have changed.


Given its an Ahsoka novel where she confronts Maul, and that Filoni's clearly had a lot of say in it, yeah I think we should be relieved he was just mentally bested, and not physically overpowered.

Remember mid S5 Ahsoka stalemating Grievous and besting him by escaping him with the padawans?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Calling it Dun Moch (a word not so far used in Canon I believe) doesn't change the substance of what happened. Maul got Kenobi off balance by enraging him. Now if that can happen to such a usually calm, noble and experienced Jedi such as Kenobi, then it's really not surprising in the least that Maul, a psychotic dark sider whose lost everything, could also be susceptible to someone attempting to do the same to him.

Dun Moch is more than just a taunt that cuts too close to the bone, Thor. It is a Sith power that influences the victims state of mind in the midst battle with the dark side, a few eons above the calibre of random trashtalking, which is what I presume ensnared Maul. Nevertheless, a regular viewer can look at the scene with Kenobi, and comparative to everything else he has done, note that it's out of character for him to lash out at anyone... but we can also empathise with him. We all saw Obi Wan watch helplessly as his father figure was stabbed in the abdomen by this horned alien devil-creature, and we're reminded of that scene again when Maul decides to reiterate. For Kenobi, we can look at his behaviour and cast it of as an isolated event, For maul getting caged like a pig is simply another black-mark in the book of slapstick humour.



Well actually, I pariahed the incompetencies of Maul long before it became a canonical trend and widely accepted by the marvellous folks on KMC, meaning the responsibility rests proudly on my shoulders. And by the way, where do you think Filoni got the idea from..? I'll tell you were - he's been viewing my posts for inspiration.



Anakin is an idiot and has done some hilariously stupid/cocky things, yes. Anything knew?



The fact that Darth Maul was glaring over his enemy, showering him in sparks, Obi Wan both unarmed and in the most disadvantaged position possible, speaks volumes to how incompetent Maul would have been to go from assured victory, to painful bisection. Surprise attacks aren't an excuse, Maul should have slashed him as soon as Kenobi's body surfaced above ground-level. Anakin might of made a bad decision, but at the very least, it was against a person who could match him for a ridiculously protracted fight, with a justified ending.



Stop with this shit.



Well that just goes to show how much your own opinion of Maul has sunk down to the nether-regions. That he is now less of a badass and more of a featurette in a series of lulworthy villains. Yes, Maul is currently on top of the pile when when it comes to bad guys doing stupid shit, overtaking Grievous with missteps that are both worse in magnitude and far more numerous in count. What worse, is that Maul is no longer intimidation or really a threat to anyone. The only people "seriously endangered" by him are the Innocent Bystanders and Damsel in Distress that they occasionally capture, and they end up no worse for wear than if they'd spent the afternoon in a Time Share seminar.



Ashoka ran away from the fight, so Grevious' only failing is not having killed her. If it were Maul, that cliff edge would have seen a pair of cybernetic legs dangling from it.

The Maul hatred is flat out laughable and reeks of double standards.

Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Dun Moch is more than just a taunt that cuts too close to the bone, Thor. It is a Sith power that influences the victims state of mind in the midst battle with the dark side, a few eons above the calibre of random trashtalking, which is what I presume ensnared Maul. Nevertheless, a regular viewer can look at the scene with Kenobi, and comparative to everything else he has done, note that it's out of character for him to lash out at anyone... but we can also empathise with him. We all saw Obi Wan watch helplessly as his father figure was stabbed in the abdomen by this horned alien devil-creature, and we're reminded of that scene again when Maul decides to reiterate. For Kenobi, we can look at his behaviour and cast it of as an isolated event, For maul getting caged like a pig is simply another black-mark in the book of slapstick humour.


Again where's Dun Moch mentioned in Canon. Since Canon is what we're talking about when concerning ourselves with "Clown" Maul.

Yes Maul hit a nerve with Kenobi. Again my point is if even Kenobi is susceptible to his opponent clearly purposefully trying to enrage him, then surely a psychotic dark sider with as many issues as Maul will be susceptible to his opponent purposefully enraging him.

But that's just something that can be done if the opportunity arises. It's not like a "oh this is an easy way to beat Maul anytime you like," given Ahsoka never beat Maul in direct combat even in the passage we are talking about, and had no way to mentally unbalance him in their Rebels fight decades later.



Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Well actually, I pariahed the incompetencies of Maul long before it became a canonical trend and widely accepted by the marvellous folks on KMC, meaning the responsibility rests proudly on my shoulders. And by the way, where do you think Filoni got the idea from..? I'll tell you were - he's been viewing my posts for inspiration.


Of course you did. The Maul haters have been lowballing his loss to TPM Kenobi for the past 17 years. And there's plenty of Maul haters out there. So that hardly makes you some visionary Lol



Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Anakin is an idiot and has done some hilariously stupid/cocky things, yes. Anything knew?

Yeah the fact that none of that takes away from him also being a tactical genius and an extremely dangerous foe. You do remember who killed Count Dooku right?



Originally posted by Ziggystardust
The fact that Darth Maul was glaring over his enemy, showering him in sparks, Obi Wan both unarmed and in the most disadvantaged position possible, speaks volumes to how incompetent Maul would have been to go from assured victory, to painful bisection. Surprise attacks aren't an excuse, Maul should have slashed him as soon as Kenobi's body surfaced above ground-level. Anakin might of made a bad decision, but at the very least, it was against a person who could match him for a ridiculously protracted fight, with a justified ending.


Surprise attack's not an excuse, and it was clearly a dumb move, resulting from cockiness on Maul's part. But it's hardly a representation of Maul's direct combat abilities. To see his combat abilities just refer to him killing Obi-Wan's own Jedi Master just minutes earlier. Or fighting on par with both Master and Palawan combined for such an extended time.





Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Stop with this shit.


So Kenobi was winning the rest of the time when they fought on neutral ground? Really?

Tell me how would that fight have ended if there was no Dead Jedi Master just lying there, because Maul had killed him just prior?

I have a feeling your answer will reveal whose really talking shit.



Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Well that just goes to show how much your own opinion of Maul has sunk down to the nether-regions. That he is now less of a badass and more of a featurette in a series of lulworthy villains. Yes, Maul is currently on top of the pile when when it comes to bad guys doing stupid shit, overtaking Grievous with missteps that are both worse in magnitude and far more numerous in count. What worse, is that Maul is no longer intimidation or really a threat to anyone. The only people "seriously endangered" by him are the Innocent Bystanders and Damsel in Distress that they occasionally capture, and they end up no worse for wear than if they'd spent the afternoon in a Time Share seminar.


No it's got nothing to do with my opinion of Maul. It's more to do with Filoni's bias towards Ahsoka. Remember when Dark Ahsoka fought off both Anakin and Obi-Wan on Mortis?

You're exaggerating Maul's "lolworthy"ness. If you go back and count, Kenobi's had so many embarrassing moments during TCW as well. It used to be a thing of Filoni's to have episodes where Kenobi just gets his ass whooped (he's joked about it himself).

And people were for the longest time putting Kenobi on par with Kit Fisto at best. But then Filoni eventually gave Kenobi his Uber TCW victory against Maul and Savage, and commended what a skilled duelist Kenobi really is.

Was a similar thing with Grievous, getting beaten by any Jedi he came across. Then getting beaten by Gungans (his all time low). But in the unfinished episode reels and in SOD, Grievous was put back into th seriously dangerous category.

Maul's getting his turn now and everyone's laughing at it. But we'll see where it eventually winds down with him.





Originally posted by Ziggystardust
Ashoka ran away from the fight, so Grevious' only failing is not having killed her. If it were Maul, that cliff edge would have seen a pair of cybernetic legs dangling from it.

Lol well I admit cliff edges do seem to be a big weakness for Maul when he's facing Padawans.

Still fact is TCW S5 Ahsoka was fighting on par with Grievous. We don't know if ROTS Ahsoka's actually going to achieve that against Maul.

As for running from Grievous, strange thing to mention when she's chose not to finish her 1 v 1 against Maul, and instead entrap him with help