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Discuss.

It's irrelevant and I've never used them in a discussion.

Canon.

I've already said all I need to in the Malgus and Thanaton vs Dooku and Ventress thread. Given your lack of a response I assumed you'd accepted my reasoning.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Canon.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I've already said all I need to in the Malgus and Thanaton vs Dooku and Ventress thread. Given your lack of a response I assumed you'd accepted my reasoning.
Actually you made reasoning why it could be, not that it is. Also, I also want to hear what Nova and co. have to say, as arguments why it isn't.

The same as yours. That it's a game mechanic that shouldn't be taken into account. They have no evidence backing their stance other then "Malgus shouldn't be that powerful."

Huh? Are you saying its canon or not?

It's not about how powerful Malgus should be, it's about what makes sense and what counts as canon. Gameplay was never stated to be canon, right the contrary it's not.

If Malgus can ragdoll 3 out of a 4 people striketeam, then he doesn't ****ing lose.

Anyhow if people want to treat it as canon, then they should also treat every other boss as canon. Like when a random Jedi ragdolled the 4 imperial protagonist on a dark side nexus, when it required 8 protagonist to beat Rancors, pirates, bounty hunters, hutt bodyguards, etc.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Anyhow if people want to treat it as canon, then they should also treat every other boss as canon.
I do.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
It's not about how powerful Malgus should be, it's about what makes sense and what counts as canon. Gameplay was never stated to be canon, right the contrary it's not.

If Malgus can ragdoll 3 out of a 4 people striketeam, then he doesn't ****ing lose.

Anyhow if people want to treat it as canon, then they should also treat every other boss as canon. Like when a random Jedi ragdolled the 4 imperial protagonist on a dark side nexus, when it required 8 protagonist to beat Rancors, pirates, bounty hunters, hutt bodyguards, etc.

The feat is stated to be occurring in the OOU text box. Is that just gameplay?

Yes he does, because he can't do that and beat the last one at the same time.

It didn't "require" anything, fool. They're mid-bosses during an flashpoint. You think the rest of the team should just stand back and let 1 player take them on to better represent the threat level of a rancor? It's an enemy you happen to fight with 8 players. Thats all.

No.

Not until I see decent rationalisations for all the other game mechanic ragdollings.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The feat is stated to be occurring in the OOU text box. Is that just gameplay?

Quote?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes he does, because he can't do that and beat the last one at the same time.

Well that'd mean he is just retarded. If he is powerful enough to ragdoll 3 at once, then he is powerful enough to oneshot them 1 by 1.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It didn't "require" anything, fool. They're mid-bosses during an flashpoint. You think the rest of the team should just stand back and let 1 player take them on to better represent the threat level of a rancor? It's an enemy you happen to fight with 8 players. Thats all.

Pretty retarded argument (I see why you like Malgus), but sure I can indulge it. They need a striketeam of 4 to beat an Advozse battlelord, a Cademimu general, a single mandalorian, a fat scientist, a bounch of rakghouls, and they needed 8 to beat a hutt in a tank, a pirate with a bird, and a Trandoshan in a tank.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Quote?

"The time has come. must face Malgus alone!"

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Well that'd mean he is just retarded. If he is powerful enough to ragdoll 3 at once, then he is powerful enough to oneshot them 1 by 1.

The same could be said about Revan. But no, is means he couldn't apply lethal force while dueling 4 opponents of this caliber.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Pretty retarded argument (I see why you like Malgus), but sure I can indulge it. They need a striketeam of 4 to beat an Advozse battlelord, a Cademimu general, a single mandalorian, a fat scientist, a bounch of rakghouls, and they needed 8 to beat a hutt in a tank, a pirate with a bird, and a Trandoshan in a tank.

No need to get personal darling. Most of these had numerous circumstances behind making them credible threats, had prep or help and were fought far before the protags prime. The "hutt in a tank" for instance was in a prototype Isotope-5 droid, powered by an energy source so powerful it could turn the tides in a galactic war. As I said in the other thread, you also need to account for the large forces you need to fight through in these, which account for their difficulty and scale.

If Malgus had not taken the other 3 out of the fight they would have just dog piled him regardless if he could have one shotted them. He couldn't simply do so the non force sensitives as well because it takes focus to maintain a sustained telekinetic hold and all the non force sensitive protag classes possess personal energy shields.

So then why not just crush their throats? Energy shields and armor don't really do anything to protect your internal body.

I would assume Malgus would have to wear down their personal shields before being able to affect their internal body. There's also the fact that he's fighting off a protag whilst doing this so it's likely he's not going to be able to gather the concentration nessecary to do so whilst fighting that protag.

Ya..but if he's able to sustain a TK hold on 3 of them, crushing their throats shouldn't be all that difficult.

The point is all his energy is being expended to sustain the TK hold.

Originally posted by Nephthys
"The time has come. must face Malgus alone!"That only makes the artifice more obvious, or alternatively a disembodied voice was narrating the fight. mmm

Yes a disembodied voice as in a narrator. An OOU narration. Which is what I said.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Ya..but if he's able to sustain a TK hold on 3 of them, crushing their throats shouldn't be all that difficult.

It would be while fighting the other one.

Perhaps the force user was resisting enough to prevent him from crushing their necks, or actively preventing it. Why doesn't Dooku crush Kenobi's neck in RotS?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The point is all his energy is being expended to sustain the TK hold.

Right, he has enough energy to do that. Yet he can't single 1 of the Non-Force Users out to crush them? Only way I see no, is if Malgus never even got a chance to use The Force in such a manner.

But at any rate, this is why I find debating TOR to be rather wonky, as we're never gonna get any accurate representation of what actually went down in a fight.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes a disembodied voice as in a narrator. An OOU narration. Which is what I said.Yes, I was being sarcastic.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Right, he has enough energy to do that. Yet he can't single 1 of the Non-Force Users out to crush them?
Not when all his energy is already used.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yes, I was being sarcastic.

Not very well. Whats your point? You want to dismiss it because you think its artificial?

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Right, he has enough energy to do that. Yet he can't single 1 of the Non-Force Users out to crush them? Only way I see no, is if Malgus never even got a chance to use The Force in such a manner.

But at any rate, this is why I find debating TOR to be rather wonky, as we're never gonna get any accurate representation of what actually went down in a fight.

Even if that were so, PIS isn't a thing exclusive to Swtor. Loads of people have used the force on people but failed to be decisive in doing so. It doesn't mean anything. Why didn't Maul, Ventress or Dooku break Kenobi's neck any of the times they've ragdolled him?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Not when all his energy is already used.

I mean before that.

Originally posted by Nephthys
"The time has come. must face Malgus alone!"

Lmao

Originally posted by Nephthys
The same could be said about Revan. But no, is means he couldn't apply lethal force while dueling 4 opponents of this caliber.

This caliber = oneshot range. Right...

Originally posted by Nephthys
No need to get personal darling.
Originally posted by Nephthys
It didn't "require" anything, fool.

If you can't take it, don't start it phag.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Most of these had numerous circumstances behind making them credible threats, had prep or help and were fought far before the protags prime. The "hutt in a tank" for instance was in a prototype Isotope-5 droid, powered by an energy source so powerful it could turn the tides in a galactic war. As I said in the other thread, you also need to account for the large forces you need to fight through in these, which account for their difficulty and scale.

Your double standards are amazing, and so is how you wank SWTOR so much and yet have no idea what you are talking about.

Karagga was before RotHC, hence no Isotope-5. Besides the protags were capable to beat Isotope-5 tanks on Makeb alone.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Even if that were so, PIS isn't a think exclusive to Swtor. Loads of people have used the force on people but failed to be decisive in doing so. It doesn't mean anything. Why didn't Maul, Ventress or Dooku break Kenobi's neck any of the times they've ragdolled him?

I never said it was exclusive. I'm just saying is all.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not very well. Whats your point? You want to dismiss it because you think its artificial? My point is that a narration only distances the event further from the in-universe reality, where mechanics like that don't exist. Its part of the gameplay experience, not actual continuity.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
My point is that a narration only distances the event further from the in-universe reality, where mechanics like that don't exist. Its part of the gameplay experience, not actual continuity.

Hardly. Its no different from the quest text in that it exists to explain whats occurring to the player. The text is clearly OOU, as obviously a disembodied voice isn't actually saying anything in the in-universe narrative, its speaking to the player directly and narrating the events of the fight.

For the purpose of the player experience, yeah, not the story. The fact that the player's name is used only reinforces that.

The player's name is used in scrolls and dialogue too, lmfao.

Because in the story, thats the players name. When you have a customizable character, the story reflects that. Its not like their name is literally "Jedi Consular" loool.

Another game mechanic, yeah.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Another game mechanic, yeah.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6WHBO_Qc-Q&t=1m57s

Nah, that's what Malgus was doing my your estimation lmao.

Originally posted by Nephthys
"The time has come. must face Malgus alone!"

Out of curiosity, do you openly accept that during that time, Malgus couldn't kill a ****ing Smuggler/Havoc Squad trooper?

That's what the entire discussion is about, Sel.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That's what the entire discussion is about, Sel.

Nah, the discussion is about force power.

I can understand exerting all his energy, but Neph is genuinely arguing that Malgus is such a shit swordsman that he couldn't beat a ****ing trooper.

Who says I'm not arguing that too.

I doubt swordsmanship would come into play in such a fight.

Are people assuming that Darth Malgus could not affect members of the Strike Team with his powers? We have solid evidence of it happening.

However, cut-scenes do not tell us everything.

Imagine two (Force-user) protagonists engaging you head-on and the other two attacking you from a safe-distance. That is lot of distraction and firepower to contend with. We should not fault Darth Malgus for failing against such odds.

Darth Malgus was identified as one of the most powerful predecessors of Palpatine; arguably, more powerful than any apprentice of Palpatine.

The thing is that most people are trying to find a logical explanation by analysing the fight, much like how these battles are discussed on this forum (or CV). This is obviously going to present problems because there are numerous of factors you can't control or predict in a fight. E.g. when Malgus is facing these characters it's probably not just going to be a head on fight in which Malgus, according to the game mechanics, should win but the protag characters are also going to work as a team which means that it's very important which kind of attack is executed by who and when, that's something you can't possibly predict. Imagine looking at the Maul vs Obi-Wan fight in TPM and only knowing that Kenobi won but not how (much like in this case), what would your conclusion be?

So yes, Malgus FE feats can definitely be taken serious and dismissing them based on "he did lose" just isn't right (and only represents a very limited thinking process).

Not really. If you take it seriously, you either accept it was something he did in the heat of the moment/took advantage of a lapse in defenses, in which case it isn't as applicable as people make it out to be, or that he can simply penetrate their Force defenses at any time, making him that much more powerful than HoT + Barsen'Thor/Nox + Wrath, which is ridiculous.

But given how regularly this happens, then I guess Obi-Wan can move over, because it looks like the TOR protags have shittier Force defenses

Originally posted by SunRazer
Not really. If you take it seriously, you either accept it was something he did in the heat of the moment/took advantage of a lapse in defenses, in which case it isn't as applicable as people make it out to be, or that he can simply penetrate their Force defenses at any time, making him that much more powerful than HoT + Barsen'Thor/Nox + Wrath, which is ridiculous.

But given how regularly this happens, then I guess Obi-Wan can move over, because it looks like the TOR protags have shittier Force defenses

I said "can", I only debated against using the "Malgus lost to the group so his feats are not usable/inconsistenties". If in the end those feats are over the top, well I don't really care for that.

Originally posted by SunRazer
But given how regularly this happens, then I guess Obi-Wan can move over, because it looks like the TOR protags have shittier Force defenses Considering how they were stomped by Arcann, maybe they are just that bad.