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the 3 of them are going at it. fight to the KO who comes out on top who is second and who is last.

the thing with those 3 is, they got tons of respect in the past. in the 80s 90s. not that i am from that era i am preety young, but i picked up classic comics here and there. beast was indeed a beast literally. during his early days as blue beast he was matching iron man and taking out powerhouses like frenzy. wolverine was indeed the ebst there is at what he did. sabretooth was portrayed indeed as a threat and was showed to be superior in strength even to spiderman several times. i remember watching the tv show as a kid those 3 were my zoo team. i loved them. after that i started to read comics and was reading wolverine comics and x men.

but since the 2000s something happened. those 3 lost a lot of respect from the writers. they still kicked as for a while. but then came the jobbing. sabretooth got treated well until like last several years where they decided he is going to be a walking punching bag with no skills at all. just a savage brainless thug that is trying to scratch and everybody stomp him.

wolverine? also began to job and forgot he has skills. the era of wolverine fans is over so the writers felt they could treat him the way they wanted. his fight vs spiderman where he gets completely destroyed is easily understood as the writing of a spiderman fan who got tired of internet debates about wolverine vs spiderman and just wanted to put an end to it by completely destroying and humuliating wolverine. i personally believe that an all out spiderman who is buisness should be faster stronger and better than wolverine but eventually stubbed and killed. even spiderman with his spider sense and agility cant avoid a well writen wolverine all the time and take him out. notice i said a well writen wolverine. a wolverine that actually is using his skills and abilities to their fullest. but thats my opinion nobody said its the way things are. however, the way spiderman destroyed wolverine was simply a spit on him. thats just 1 example of the jobber wolverine became.

and finally beast. this character in my opinion went thru one of the most extreme power level shake in comics world. from being a powerhouse and matching iron man, beating frenzy and even beating up and knocking out wonder man. yes wonder man. he became a big furry puusay. in xtreme x men issue #2 the x men are fighting and it is stated that the guards has no chance against the strength of bishop and the acrobatics of beast. you hear that? the strength of bishop. now i understood when in the classic days, colossus and rogue replaced beast as the powerhouses of the x men. no problem. but bishop? bishop is more a symbol of strength than beast? bishop is what peak human at strength? this is just insane. and then beast beaten to almost death but hey thats vargas. beast gained his cat like form in which he suppose to be stronger, but ever since the cat form thats it. the writers made a complete and i do mean a complete joke out of him. aside of the fight vs danger and vs wolverine, he was owned so badly its not even funny. captured by dark beast and turtured to the point he was crying and saying what will you do to me? more turture? no fighting spirit at all. in every fight the x men had he was trying to avoid fighting and when he did try to fight he got destroyed and 1 shotted. in his ape form he gave wolverine decent fights. in his cat form ... yep 1 shotted in the state enemy arc. beaten to almost death by freakin beak with a bat. beast became a walking joke that is just scared and doesnt have any physical advantages over a big walking disney cat. in his ape form, he was shown as superior to sabretooth in fighting. in the sabretooth danger zone and in another comics where he one shotts sabretooth with a kick. but in their recent fight sabretooth owned beast and even stated he doesnt have any will to fight.

overall in my opinion those are 3 characters that once were powerful and cool, but then got for some reason a bad treatment. beast by far the worst one. so back to the thread, what do you think about this fight?

any thoughts on that one?

If its at their best creed wins. Hank is a non factor

Originally posted by Sin I AM
If its at their best creed wins. Hank is a non factor

well in sabretooth danger zone beast gave him a very good fight and was owning him. sabretooth inflicted damage on beast and cyclops helped but we dont know how things would be if cyclops didnt show up. maybe beast would win. also beast in both of his fights vs wolverine showed the ability to instantly heal during the fight from wolverines claws. so i think he has a chance to KO them.

I would place Sabes and Wolvys HF FAR above Beast's. Like, several levels above.

So a KO? Very doubtful.

Not to mention, Sabes has also had multiple upgrades.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I would place Sabes and Wolvys HF FAR above Beast's. Like, several levels above.

So a KO? Very doubtful.

Not to mention, Sabes has also had multiple upgrades.

yeah i would also. but just because their healing factor is better does not mean beast cant whitstand damage from them. beast went toe 2 toe with wolverine twice and was healing fine from the wounds. also beating sabretooth preety well. i actually believe a decent writen beast can ko them. his punching power and strength is super human. in sabretooth the danger zone he punch sabretooth making him fall on his knees and bleed. takes sabretooth some time to recover. also he took sabretooth out with a double leg kick. i think wolverine will defeat beast and even kill him after a decent fight. again we are talking about beast that actually wants to fight and uses his skills and strength. he is very agile and uses a lot of acrobatic movements such as jump on top of someone, then flip him head first with his feet. he flipped the juggernaut on his back. i can clearly see beast knocking them out by pile driving them into the ground head first or even a good placed punch. eventually wolverine kills him more times than he will get knocked out. sabretooth is closer. a toss up in my opinion.

Problem is, that fight with Sabes is one of Beast's highest showings.

Wolverines' high showings include hurting Gladiator, Sabes' includes defeating and skinning Wendigo...

Both those showings are lame specially if it was before Creed's upgrades

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Problem is, that fight with Sabes is one of Beast's highest showings.

Wolverines' high showings include hurting Gladiator, Sabes' includes defeating and skinning Wendigo...

its not beasts highest showings at all. his highest are the ones where he is with the x factor. where he is beating up iron man and easily defeating frenzy. knocking out and beating wonder man. also giving fights to the juggernaut. him beating up sabretooth is nothing special and out of his league. remember beast has around class 5 - 10 super human strength. he has feats of tearing off chunks of ground, lifting cars and throwing them to a distance, create small shockwaves while punding the ground with his fists. thats actually a well writen beast when the writers suddenly remember he has super human abilities. also when dark beast trapped him inside a metal tank, he stated its impossible for beast to get free. once beast got mad he ripped that open. let it be noted he was covered to his neck with metal. and he simply ripped all of that open.

wolverine hurting gladiator IMO was a PIS, glads durability is higher. however even if we take that into acount, then it only means his penetrating abilities are high. there is no question he can cut beast. he already did and beast healed and kept fighting.

sabretooth vs wendigo is a perfect fight for sabretooth. first of all wendigo has different incarnations. some of them weaker some stronger. wolverine defeated a wendigo in a fist fight. as i pointed out, a big brick is perfect for sabretooth. a big target to just cut and slice. however sabretooth has trouble fighting skilled fighters. beast possess strength above sabretooth, agility above sabretooth, and he has unpredictible skills. in sabretooth the danger zone we see how beast is avoiding hits from creed and beats him up. and that was in a closed train. very little space to move. imagine them fighting in an open field. beast will be riding sabretooth hard IMO.

Beast also owned Danger. A being who was running through the Xmen.

Originally posted by carver9
Beast also owned Danger. A being who was running through the Xmen.

so what, he also got dominated by Cap, US Agent, Daredevil, Black Panther, and so on.. His history mostly is that he sucks at fighting. Does he have so high showings of course every character does. But a majority of the time when it comes to fighting he gets that blue furry tail beat.

Originally posted by Supermutant
so what, he also got dominated by Cap, US Agent, Daredevil, Black Panther, and so on.. His history mostly is that he sucks at fighting. Does he have so high showings of course every character does. But a majority of the time when it comes to fighting he gets that blue furry tail beat.

i dont recall beast fighting daredevil please present that fight. i also dont recall beast fighting black panther. losing to captain america? who didnt? the fact cap didnt take him with a single hit is impressive already considering his jobbing aura Lol. as pointed out, beating up sabretooth or danger are not his highest i have stated his highest. those are typical showings for beast when the writers remember he is suppose to have super human strength, reflex agility and a healing factor. he demonstrated all of those plenty of times. mostly during his human and ape form. even defeating kraven the hunter while in human form.

Originally posted by Supermutant
so what, he also got dominated by Cap, US Agent, Daredevil, Black Panther, and so on.. His history mostly is that he sucks at fighting. Does he have so high showings of course every character does. But a majority of the time when it comes to fighting he gets that blue furry tail beat.

Lol...you're talking about his classic fights. He's received upgrades after that.

But OP is not using those upgrades....

yes because it seems the more upgrades he gets, the more mental blocks are comming with them and restrain him. in his last fight vs sabretooth while in his cat form, sabretooth stated he doesnt have any will to fight and if he had the will to fight he would be much more dangerous than wolverine. of course statements are statements, but the most important thing is that sabretooth straightly tells him wtf is wrong with you man? you are not willing to fight

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But OP is not using those upgrades....

Aaahhhh, with that said, Beast is irrelevant in this fight. Sabertooth wins.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...you're talking about his classic fights. He's received upgrades after that.

Upgrades that weren't much of upgrades. Just new looks, basically...

Originally posted by carver9
Aaahhhh, with that said, Beast is irrelevant in this fight.

lol being that was my entire point, nice concession

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Upgrades that weren't much of upgrades. Just new looks, basically...

It was an upgrade and was stated as such.

Pre-death Logan (no hf) in nothing but his boxer shorts still managed to beat pre-Axis Creed haermm2

As for Beast, even in his (forced) feral state, he still got one-shotted off-panel by Logan who was devolved to his James Howlett kid mindset from Origin mini-series.

Originally posted by carver9
It was an upgrade and was stated as such.

Stop using handbooks, carv.

Cat form did add some new stuff to his powerset, but he still got wtfpwned by Dark Beast --- y'know, the guy who is older than 616 Hank and doesn't have his combat expertise...

Less said about the Bendis form the better. Completely unnecessary and no feats worth mentioning. More Hall of Shame showings, though... but that's nothing new for Hank.

Originally posted by Dareangel
i dont recall beast fighting daredevil please present that fight. i also dont recall beast fighting black panther. losing to captain america? who didnt? the fact cap didnt take him with a single hit is impressive already considering his jobbing aura Lol. as pointed out, beating up sabretooth or danger are not his highest i have stated his highest. those are typical showings for beast when the writers remember he is suppose to have super human strength, reflex agility and a healing factor. he demonstrated all of those plenty of times. mostly during his human and ape form. even defeating kraven the hunter while in human form.

It's amazing what little you actually know about your chosen fanboy character. At the risk that you will lose this knowledge incorrectly here it is:

http://i.imgur.com/D6Qm9vC.jpg

http://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/6/65990/1986468-daredevil155159xd.jpg

You can look up the rest yourself kid. Stop arguing power set over what the character has actually done. Beast doesn't live up to his stats most of the time pure and simple as that.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Stop using handbooks, carv.

Cat form did add some new stuff to his powerset, but he still got wtfpwned by Dark Beast --- y'know, the guy who is older than 616 Hank and doesn't have his combat expertise...

Less said about the Bendis form the better. Completely unnecessary and no feats worth mentioning. More Hall of Shame showings, though... but that's nothing new for Hank.

https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/wolverine-vs-beast.jpg

https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/wolverine-vs-beast-2.jpg

We both know how that ended. Don't get why you are bringing up Dark Beast. Do I need to name who owned Creed and Logan?

Originally posted by carver9
We both know how that ended.

Yes. With Logan's claws at Beast's face and throat...

Oh, and don't forget about that time when a taxed Wolverine who has been blasted by Rachel Phoenix, mind-controlled and missing a piece of his soul still one-shotted attacking Hank

Originally posted by carver9
Don't get why you are bringing up Dark Beast.

Cat Hank got destroyed by DB, that's why. Like I said before, so much for an upgrade...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-aWZ4IY9Z7Mc/Tg3v4mtLNvI/AAAAAAAAEhM/RHfIYqlR8gs/s1600/Wolverine%2Bthe%2Bbest%2Bthere%2Bis%2B%25237.jpg

Originally posted by Supermutant
It's amazing what little you actually know about your chosen fanboy character. At the risk that you will lose this knowledge incorrectly here it is:

http://i.imgur.com/D6Qm9vC.jpg

http://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/6/65990/1986468-daredevil155159xd.jpg

You can look up the rest yourself kid. Stop arguing power set over what the character has actually done. Beast doesn't live up to his stats most of the time pure and simple as that.

cant post a single post without insults and mouthing... what a great person you are.

you didnt have to post the captain america one i already pointed out i know about the fight. this one with daredevil is something i never saw good to see. you know you could post it without being a pr!ck. anyway still dont see the black panther fight and dont recall there was such fight. please show us the black panther fight. also the fight vs daredevil, is that the last of the fight or is there more?

as for the rest, i already stated beasts showings. i stated his highs and his average. during his ape form he was taking many names and had nice strength and fighting feats. on his average he took out sabretooth and in another fight did much better than him and had the upper hand on him. beast demonstrated abilities to ko frenzy and wonder man. punched sabretooth so hard sabretooth fell to his knees bleeding and took him time to get up. threw wolverine so hard into a car he smashed the car, and he wasnt even serious with logan. i see all you like to do is jump from thread to thread and lowball characters for some reason. well if thats your thing...

You're not referencing Red Zone, are you?

Because Sabretooth there was running the X-Men gauntlet and Beast barely slowed him down, if anything.

Are people still trying to say Beast is a legit threat? Non comic reading motherphuckers smh

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Are people still trying to say Beast is a legit threat? Non comic reading motherphuckers smh

lol this is all the response they deserve really. But, maybe this will show them that Beast isn't a threat to a serious Logan. lol @ Logan laughing at Beast threatening him. Logan thought he killed Hank with only one claw swipe lol.
Wolverine #162

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148642-wolverine_162_14.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148638-wolverine_162_15.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148634-wolverine_162_16.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148633-wolverine_162_17.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148631-wolverine_162_18.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148630-wolverine_162_19.jpg

And that is actually considered a good showing for Beast.

In EOTS, he got one-shotted.

In Astonishing, he got one-shotted, too; when Cassandra made him go completely feral and mindraped Wolverine into thinking he's a kid again, pre-X-gene.

Originally posted by Supermutant
lol this is all the response they deserve really. But, maybe this will show them that Beast isn't a threat to a serious Logan. lol @ Logan laughing at Beast threatening him. Logan thought he killed Hank with only one claw swipe lol.
Wolverine #162

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148642-wolverine_162_14.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148638-wolverine_162_15.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148634-wolverine_162_16.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148633-wolverine_162_17.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148631-wolverine_162_18.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/4148630-wolverine_162_19.jpg

you are not very good with context. beast was pretending to hurt to surprise logan. wolverine himself stated he forgot about beasts healing factor. if anything this fight between friends shows us beast agility to avoid logans heats and his great healing factor that can handle being cut by logan. wana bring more fail? and i am waiting for the black panther fight or i am calling you out on making stuff out

Hate to say it, but it's pretty telling we have to go almost 30 years back to find good feats for Beast. If X-Factor is the be all end all for his highs, he's probably not that high...


Also, goddamnit carver. Don't stretch the page.

http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/132594/3390303-w-26-16.jpg

One-shot.

Originally posted by Dareangel
you are not very good with context. beast was pretending to hurt to surprise logan. wolverine himself stated he forgot about beasts healing factor. if anything this fight between friends shows us beast agility to avoid logans heats and his great healing factor that can handle being cut by logan. wana bring more fail? and i am waiting for the black panther fight or i am calling you out on making stuff out

lol @ you telling anyone they are not good with context. Your record is not so hot.
Logan did not want to fight Hank, actually stop fighting in the middle of it, and Hank was still worse off. Hank healing factor is nowhere close to Logan or Creed's, and that didn't stop Logan from one-shotting him on two different occasions.

Speaking about bringing more fail

Originally posted by Dareangel
wait so current drax is a different and weaker incarnation? if so then i should stop trying to debate characters i simply dont know



Take you own advice kid. And looking up the Black Panther/Beast fight is your homework, I shouldn't have to educate you every time.

Cut him some slack; you see he registered just this month, lol. Carver is the real villain here.

Besides, it's this forum's unofficial tradition of sorts... that every once in a while, a Beast fan(boy) appears out of nowhere.

When did T'Challa and Hank fight, btw? I cannot recall that.

Originally posted by Supermutant
lol @ you telling anyone they are not good with context. Your record is not so hot.
Logan did not want to fight Hank, actually stop fighting in the middle of it, and Hank was still worse off. Hank healing factor is nowhere close to Logan or Creed's, and that didn't stop Logan from one-shotting him on two different occasions.

Speaking about bringing more fail





Take you own advice kid. And looking up the Black Panther/Beast fight is your homework, I shouldn't have to educate you every time.

yes you are not good with context at all. beast was pretending to be hurt to surprise wolverine and take him down just like happened. you ignoring the scans you posted yourself is amazing or just ignorant. logan did not want to fight hank at first. but once hank punched him, he got mad and was trying to hit beast for real i think we see it clearly. after beast avoided his hits and just slam him into a car wolverine got super pissed pulled his claws out and cut beast. hank pretended he is hurt to cool off wolverine and to surprise him. after that sure they are joking around. but that was indeed a scene of their fighting abilities 1 vs the other as well as a proof beast has nice healing factor that can take wolverines claws.

again, hulks healing factor doesnt need to compete with wolverines or creeds. its not a battle of who has a better healing factor. we only need him to be able to heal from their cuts which he can. and specially in the mansion fight where they went slash for slash.

so wolverine was able to one shot beast and? many times you see characters one shotting someone but other times they have long fight or even lose. and no there are no 2 different times when wolverine one shotted beast. there is 1 and it was posted here. before you post the other i know what you are talking about that wasnt a real fight but an illusion in wolverines head when he thought he is fighting the xmen. again fail on your behalf.

my point was never that beast wins vs wolverine. if you actually read my posts over here you will see i actually said wolverine will win. i am just saying beast can give him fights and has a chance to knock wolverine out.

again, if you wont post that fight it didnt happen. there isnt such fight you made it up.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Cut him some slack; you see he registered just this month, lol. Carver is the real villain here.

Besides, it's this forum's unofficial tradition of sorts... that every once in a while, a Beast fan(boy) appears out of nowhere.

When did T'Challa and Hank fight, btw? I cannot recall that.

Lol i am not beast fanboy i am just trying to defend the underdog. if anything i am more a daredevil wolverine fan. and yes, i also dont remember and cant find anything about beast fighting black panther.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Carver is the real villain here.

http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s417/KingMichael777/Comics/1301930-abp_agilty_super_zps334c75bf.jpg
Couldn't find the issue number.

haha that feral wolvie screen was amazing thanks BTW


beast is a cool enough character but seriously couldn't take any of the mutants from weapon x.

id put him on level with wolfsbane and feral for a vs. With hank being the better.

Sabes>Snikts>Beast

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Are people still trying to say Beast is a legit threat? Non comic reading motherphuckers smh
This.

Wolverine > Sabretooth>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Beast.

Originally posted by deathslash
http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s417/KingMichael777/Comics/1301930-abp_agilty_super_zps334c75bf.jpg
Couldn't find the issue number.

thats human beast. we are talking about his evolution the ape form.

Originally posted by Dareangel
thats human beast. we are talking about his evolution the ape form. I know that but it doesn't change that beast (when he was still human looking) got beat on by panther (before any of his upgrades).

Originally posted by deathslash
I know that but it doesn't change that beast (when he was still human looking) got beat on by panther (before any of his upgrades).

yes but once again has no relevance to the thread. this is not how the new version of black panther would do against ape beast. and even then we cant judge by that fight since each of them evolved to different degree and how they stack now is unknown. this is something for another thread and actually could be interesting.

The point is quite simple - Beast doesn't do well against skilled fighters in general.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
The point is quite simple - Beast doesn't do well against skilled fighters in general.

he usually wont do well vs the top skilled streets. same reason why sabretooth gets his ass handed to him by them as well. many of them took out wolverine also. marvel just likes to portray the golden boy streets defeat the stronger and more animalistic characters. however the things as they should be, and specially judging by the way beast already fought sabretooth and wolverine, he has a decent chance knocking out wolverine here and there but will eventually lose to wolverine the majority. vs sabretooth he will have easier time and i see beast writen well with all his powers and abilities taking sabretooth down. more agile, stronger, healing factor, use acrobatics that easily overpowered sabretooth even in close and tight area. when they were outside beast used his agility and simply lauched such a punch creed fell to his knees bleeding. and yes the x men were after him but he has healing factor and simply was healing. jean broke his leg via telekinesis and after few seconds we see him just running away like nothing happened. he was perfectly fine when he fought beast, who by the way was the first one to fight him after he cut archangels wings.

Originally posted by Dareangel
vs sabretooth he will have easier time and i see beast writen well with all his powers and abilities taking sabretooth down.

I think this is wishful thinking. Beast's fighting acumen has been written consistently enough that we can take Beast's fighting skill as what they have been. even with upgrades Beast is just not a fighter.

Anyone REMEMBER how sabretooth used to find Logan on his birthday just to lay an asswhooping on him every year? or did make that up?

Also I would like to add the Sabretooth is as brutal a fighter as Logan if not more so and can be more vicious.

Sabretooth also has more control over himself when going berserk/animalistic.

Logan can win in sheer force of will but I think they would mess each other up so bad that they go feral where IMHO SABES takes it/

Yes. Hank is a scientist with a gentle soul, not a true fighter.

A nice example of how that affects him is his most recent fight with Dark Beast --- who can be considered relatively "frail" because of his age and doesn't have his counterpart's combat expertise... yet he still whooped 616 Beast's (post-Cat upgrade) ass.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yes. Hank is a scientist with a gentle soul, not a true fighter.

A nice example of how that affects him is his most recent fight with Dark Beast --- who can be considered relatively "frail" because of his age and doesn't have his counterpart's combat expertise... yet he still whooped 616 Beast's (post-Cat upgrade) ass. scans please. I didn't see that fight. Also, how old is dark beast in comparison to beast?

Originally posted by deathslash
scans please. I didn't see that fight.

http://panels-of-interest.tumblr.com/post/90065790140/beast-vs-dark-beast-from-x-men-1991-203

Originally posted by deathslash
Also, how old is dark beast in comparison to beast?

20 years older, afaik.

So in cat years, he's 1000 years older.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
http://panels-of-interest.tumblr.com/post/90065790140/beast-vs-dark-beast-from-x-men-1991-203



20 years older, afaik. wow.......He got owned hard. I mean, the first and second hit could be seen as sucker shots, but the third and fourth were just outright ownage. What's even worse is that he got owned by his weaker, less physically powerful, much older alternate reality version of himself who didn't even spend much (if any) time fighting.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
http://panels-of-interest.tumblr.com/post/90065790140/beast-vs-dark-beast-from-x-men-1991-203

That's really quite telling. Beast have almost no showing of H2H skill against any respected opponent.

damn. thats the dark beast that easily got owned by sabretooth and went down from wolverines elbow. damn. thats the reason why i said ae beast because them writers wont fool me. they say he evolved and became stronger yeah stronger my a$$. ever since he became cat like he always has that measurable look on his face even when he is fighting. its dat victim face. in his current form he fought sabretooth and was wrecked. sabretooth said that he has no will to fight and if he had the will he could be better than wolverine. not sure about that but the oint is he lost all resistance and will for fighting. he needs to get into some crazy secial 1 in a million berzerk mode, just so he can finally fight normally.

however during his ae form days you could see him being a more serious fighter. mostly during his early days but even later. in his ae form he beat the living hell out of dark beast. wrecked him comletely. thats why his current form is even weaker than his human form in which he owned kraven and had 1000X better showings.

iirc Beast beat Dark Beast in an earlier appearance?

At any rate he still can't compete with either of these.

beast gets totally wrecked here. not sure how it can be argued--reasonably--any other way.

Originally posted by krisblaze
iirc Beast beat Dark Beast in an earlier appearance?

At any rate he still can't compete with either of these.

yes in his ape form. beast during those days had the will to fight. he threw down no problem. but ever sice dat cat form.. oh hell no. he always got this measurable look on his face like he wants to suicide or something. has no will for anything aside of wearing glasses and talk all day long. i really really dont like what they did with him. he is basically useless aside of his brains now days.

Originally posted by leonidas
beast gets totally wrecked here. not sure how it can be argued--reasonably--any other way.

his ape form and better days can knock out both sabretooth and wolverine IMO. majority wins over wolverine nah. against sabretooth its a toss up IMO. again, i am talking about his ape form, the day when he wrecked spiral with a punch, gave wolverine a good fight. owned sabretooth in 2 different fights. gave iron man hard fight. knocked out wonder man. completely destroyed dark beast. knocked out frenzy. had strength feats such as throwing cars, tearing off chunks of land to cover from projectiles. tear metal tanks. create ground quackes via punching the ground. that beast is a nice fight to any of those 2. after beast evolved to this cat like form thats it. he became some pathetic EMO for some unexplained reason that is begging for his life with a victim face all the time.

Originally posted by Dareangel
his ape form and better days can knock out both sabretooth and wolverine IMO. majority wins over wolverine nah. against sabretooth its a toss up IMO. again, i am talking about his ape form, the day when he wrecked spiral with a punch, gave wolverine a good fight. owned sabretooth in 2 different fights. gave iron man hard fight. knocked out wonder man. completely destroyed dark beast. knocked out frenzy. had strength feats such as throwing cars, tearing off chunks of land to cover from projectiles. tear metal tanks. create ground quackes via punching the ground. that beast is a nice fight to any of those 2. after beast evolved to this cat like form thats it. he became some pathetic EMO for some unexplained reason that is begging for his life with a victim face all the time.

No.

Well, there was a brief period of time where he was being pushed as a badass. But as I said before, it was decades ago...

Even that version still loses here though.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Well, there was a brief period of time where he was being pushed as a badass. But as I said before, it was decades ago...

Even that version still loses here though.

No. I dont believe that either. Beast was never displayed as a bad ass. That goes against his character. He's a scientist FIRST. Just like Richards...

On a team with Wolverine, what fighting niche could Beast possibly fill, lol. He's going up against a guy created to fight the Hulk...

Sin and others are right. He's just a scientist, who can sometimes handle himself.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
On a team with Wolverine, what fighting niche could Beast possibly fill, lol. He's going up against a guy created to fight the Hulk...

Sin and others are right. He's just a scientist, who can sometimes handle himself.

Beast fought a guy who was as strong as the Hulk and practically took him out.

In Claremont's newer run.

I understand.

I meant in the role that writers envisage when creating teams. You have the strategist, the fighter, the powerhouse, the scientist etc etc.

Sometimes the roles overlap, but they generally hold true. If your team has one animal berserker type character....

Originally posted by Sin I AM
No. I dont believe that either. Beast was never displayed as a bad ass. That goes against his character. He's a scientist FIRST. Just like Richards...

during his time with the x factor he was less of a scientist and more of a powerhouse fighting iron man and taking out frenzy and wonder man. he had a lot of other fights where he took out big sized mutants and weird cretures but they are not some well known characters so we dont know how powerful they were. however, he was intended to be a powerhouse and it was stated many times by the writers. even with the x men same thing happened at first, however writers decided they have rouge and colossus so beast should stick to being the smart guy. however he had a very decent and long period of being a bad ass fighter. just because he is smart doesnt mean he cant kick ass. in sabretooth danger zone beast is chasing him saying you know how it works creed. for every person you hurt i break 5 of your bones and creed was trying to calm him down before getting his face smashed. you have a hard time accepting beast as a fighter because of moden days. but at least it makes some sense that its due to his evolution and therefor as ape beast he can be argued as a fighter.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
No. I dont believe that either. Beast was never displayed as a bad ass. That goes against his character. He's a scientist FIRST. Just like Richards...
I don't mean his personality. I meant he was upgraded physically. Frenzy used to be able to one-shot him, then the situation completely flipped, for example.

Originally posted by Dareangel
during his time with the x factor he was less of a scientist and more of a powerhouse fighting iron man and taking out frenzy and wonder man. he had a lot of other fights where he took out big sized mutants and weird cretures but they are not some well known characters so we dont know how powerful they were. however, he was intended to be a powerhouse and it was stated many times by the writers. even with the x men same thing happened at first, however writers decided they have rouge and colossus so beast should stick to being the smart guy. however he had a very decent and long period of being a bad ass fighter. just because he is smart doesnt mean he cant kick ass. in sabretooth danger zone beast is chasing him saying you know how it works creed. for every person you hurt i break 5 of your bones and creed was trying to calm him down before getting his face smashed. you have a hard time accepting beast as a fighter because of moden days. but at least it makes some sense that its due to his evolution and therefor as ape beast he can be argued as a fighter.

He's not a powerhouse though. Being the strongest man on a team of noobs doesnt make you so. And despite your fan service he's yet to prove a legit challenge to any character of note. People keep bringing up Danger but he didnt beat her up under normal conditions. He HAD to go OOC. He doesnt have that plot luxury here.
He can't beat Cap or Panther...gets killed against a serious Logan or Creed. Someone mentioned Feral, but imo he's beneath Wolfsbane, Feral, Tigra because he simply DOES NOT HAVE the feats to back up a h2h encounter. His stats a cool and all but his perfomance is lackluster. Fighting imo is OOC for beast. He's best served in the lab

Originally posted by StyleTime
I don't mean his personality. I meant he was upgraded physically. Frenzy used to be able to one-shot him, then the situation completely flipped, for example.

I still call bullshit on Beast taking out Frenzy no problem, but he's definitely been upgraded

Originally posted by Sin I AM
He's not a powerhouse though. Being the strongest man on a team of noobs doesnt make you so. And despite your fan service he's yet to prove a legit challenge to any character of note. People keep bringing up Danger but he didnt beat her up under normal conditions. He HAD to go OOC. He doesnt have that plot luxury here.
He can't beat Cap or Panther...gets killed against a serious Logan or Creed. Someone mentioned Feral, but imo he's beneath Wolfsbane, Feral, Tigra because he simply DOES NOT HAVE the feats to back up a h2h encounter. His stats a cool and all but his perfomance is lackluster. Fighting imo is OOC for beast. He's best served in the lab

i am not trying to ut him on the levels of colossus but still he displayed as pointed out the ability to take it to characters such as iron man, wonder man, frenzy, oh yeah and now i found a feat of him hitting freakin pegan with both of his fists making him actually feel his strikes. aside of fighting feats he has plenty of agility and strength feats to easily put him as super human. owned sabretooth twice. had a fight with wolverine and actually in logans own comics was portrayed as stronger and avoided his hits. also being able to heal from his cuts. but the fact is, people still refuse to see him as a powerful fighter and a brick, because most of the time he doesnt fight. but when he does, or better yet when he did fight as ape beast he had good showings. he was kicking ass. he knew when to throw the books and jump into the fight. yeah its the tv series opening scene mention Lol. the thing is ever since he became a big cat he became something else. his mindset changed. as i said already sabretooth himself stated he just doesnt have any will to fight. same sabretooth that was owned and scared of beast when he was in his ape form. this is the reason why i used ape beast for this thread. and if we talk about him then he has enough feats of fighting, strength agility and skills to suggest he can at least knock out several fights wolverine or sabretooth. specially his x factor feats where he suppose to actually wreck the both of them. the thing is, the comics cimmunity got used to treat beast as the hairy scientist. and yes its hard to suddenly see things slightly differently after your mind already programed something in a specific way. but the feats are there to grab.

Originally posted by krisblaze
I still call bullshit on Beast taking out Frenzy no problem, but he's definitely been upgraded
I found these scans, but we need CONTEXT behind them :
VS Frenzy -
https://s22.postimg.org/c75fcr21p/4494472_9770523293_21939.jpg
VS Wonderman
https://s17.postimg.org/w45gwqq6j/4494474_5020663833_21939.jpg

Originally posted by zopzop
I found these scans, but we need CONTEXT behind them :
VS Frenzy -
https://s22.postimg.org/c75fcr21p/4494472_9770523293_21939.jpg
VS Wonderman
https://s17.postimg.org/w45gwqq6j/4494474_5020663833_21939.jpg

no special context as far as i undertand. just simply the way beast was intended to be.

Yeah, there's context.

I was led to believe Beast straight up overpowered WM. Instead, all he did was use his athleticism to use WMs own momentum against him.

Looks like he's carrying off WonderMan to have his way with him...

Same with Frenzy really...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, there's context.

I was led to believe Beast straight up overpowered WM. Instead, all he did was use his athleticism to use WMs own momentum against him.

not overpowered but beat. beast slammed him into a wall with his legs causing him a knock out. its right there. by the way thats not all of the fight. before that beast was exchanging blows with wonder man and hurt him with kicks and acrobatics. dont get me wrong wonder man is stronger than beast. its a fact. but beast was able to fight him and even knock him out

Originally posted by krisblaze
Looks like he's carrying off WonderMan to have his way with him...

Same with Frenzy really...

Lol i actually used my imagination on those 2

Yeah, but he essentially KOd himself. Beast even acknowledges it right there in the scan, that it was his athleticism, not his durability, or speed, or strength.

And interms of athleticism, Sabes and Wolvy are leagues ahead of WM.

IOW, we're comparing apples and oranges.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, but he essentially KOd himself. Beast even acknowledges it right there in the scan, that it was his athleticism, not his durability, or speed, or strength.

And interms of athleticism, Sabes and Wolvy are leagues ahead of WM.

IOW, we're comparing apples and oranges.

you can see that beast used contact and was the one who threw wonder man + his momentum into the wall. you can see beast having his legs up because he used them. if he was just acrobatically ducking on the back his legs wouldnt be up. i dont understand how is it a lesser of a feat to be honest. its a basic judo drill where you are using your oponents energy against him but of course you add your own technique and strength. thats why you see the WHAP sound portraying a contact. of course thats also acrobatic on behalf of beast. but its not like wonder man jumed and beast just ducked and wonder man knocked out himself. characters use techniques like those all the time, but i never saw that for some reason it was held agains them for using a fighting technique and not straight out overpower the foe by going punch for punch until someone is down. its a win

Beast also defeated Spiral.

Oh yes, not saying its not a win.

Am saying I was led to believe he outmuscled him/punched him out himself.

When, instead of a boxing match, it was an aikido throw.

Which speaks to athleticism, NOT strength.

Which again, is applicable to WM, and WM only. NOT to Wolvy or Sabes.

Originally posted by zopzop
I found these scans, but we need CONTEXT behind them :
VS Frenzy -
https://s22.postimg.org/c75fcr21p/4494472_9770523293_21939.jpg


Temporary strength upgrade. Remember when he helped the Hulk and Hercules bend metal bars?

As for Simon, yes, nothing more than using his own momentum against him... like DS said.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Temporary strength upgrade. Remember when he helped the Hulk and Hercules bend metal bars?

Yup, I just had to make sure. How did he get the upgrade? Was it Pestilence or Infectia that did it? Can't remember.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh yes, not saying its not a win.

Am saying I was led to believe he outmuscled him/punched him out himself.

When, instead of a boxing match, it was an aikido throw.

Which speaks to athleticism, NOT strength.

Which again, is applicable to WM, and WM only. NOT to Wolvy or Sabes.

yeah but wolvie and sabs are not nearly as strong as wonder man either

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Temporary strength upgrade. Remember when he helped the Hulk and Hercules bend metal bars?

As for Simon, yes, nothing more than using his own momentum against him... like DS said.

strength upgrade... i really dont recall him having upgrades during that fight. when and how did he get a temporary upgrade

Originally posted by krisblaze
Looks like he's carrying off WonderMan to have his way with him...

Same with Frenzy really...

beast is a freaky guy....

Originally posted by Dareangel
yeah but wolvie and sabs are not nearly as strong as wonder man either

They don't have to be, to win.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
They don't have to be, to win.

yeah they dont, but beast also doesnt have to rely so much on special techniques. his sheer strength was enough to overpower sabretooth

Who has received upgrades since then, right?

During an attack on New York by the eternal mutant Apocalypse and his Four Horsemen, Hank was stricken with a virus that sapped his intellect and increased his strength every time he exerted himself physically. The more Hank used his strength, the stronger he got, but the less intelligent he became.

http://marvel.com/universe/Beast_(Henry_McCoy)

Whenever a decent strength feat is posted, it turns out Hank was amped in a way... another KMC tradition, lol.

Originally posted by carver9
Beast also defeated Spiral.

Quit instigating. U know damn well thats bs

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Quit instigating. U know damn well thats bs

Not instigating...just presenting facts.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Who has received upgrades since then, right?

yeah but his ugrades excluding the last one were just like beasts upgrades, didnt change anything for him. and i believe danger zone was after his second upgrade anyway. creed also had the last upgrade for a short time after that he came back to be the long hair sabs who get handled easily

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
During an attack on New York by the eternal mutant Apocalypse and his Four Horsemen, Hank was stricken with a virus that sapped his intellect and increased his strength every time he exerted himself physically. The more Hank used his strength, the stronger he got, but the less intelligent he became.

http://marvel.com/universe/Beast_(Henry_McCoy)

Whenever a decent strength feat is posted, it turns out Hank was amped in a way... another KMC tradition, lol.

it doesnt sound like sone external upgrade but just inner activation of powers. secondly even if its an upgrade then fine, whats wrong with upgrades. sabretooth has tons of upgrades and people have no problem bringing them up because thats part of the character. hell beast got an upgrade from human to ape form. also, strange i didnt know about it since it was never mentioned as far as i recall in more 90s comics and so on. is it something permanent or something that ended and gone

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Quit instigating. U know damn well thats bs

why are you trying so badly dismiss his feats and credit. it happened twice by the way. one of the fights he one shotts her with a punch. its like you have a personal agenda against him

Originally posted by Dareangel
is it something permanent or something that ended and gone

Read the damn article.

It was temporary and it's lost gone. You even have Beast in the Frenzy scan itself hinting at said upgrade... "there have been some dramatic improvements". And Frenzy comments it's not his usual power level just moments before that.

You're not defending an underdog like you said before. You're clearly biased. Otherwise you'd have no trouble acknowledging the simple facts.

it certainly does seem that way. and championing an underdog only makes sense if the underdog can legitimately and logically be championed. beast has quite literally no chance. and if beast were real and you asked him, i'd wager he would tell you the exact same thing. lol

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Read the damn article.

It was temporary and it's lost gone. You even have Beast in the Frenzy scan itself hinting at said upgrade... "there have been some dramatic improvements". And Frenzy comments it's not his usual power level just moments before that.

You're not defending an underdog like you said before. You're clearly biased. Otherwise you'd have no trouble acknowledging the simple facts.

well if its something he had for a limited time and was gone then yeah, that feat is not his to wield

well he still has nice fighting feats but shame

Originally posted by leonidas
it certainly does seem that way. and championing an underdog only makes sense if the underdog can legitimately and logically be championed. beast has quite literally no chance. and if beast were real and you asked him, i'd wager he would tell you the exact same thing. lol

if you asked beast he would say he can KO each of them. he would also ask whats in it for him. why should he fight them. i dont know man, funds for researches? club skanks? what can you offer him?

This is the page preceding the WonderMan scan....

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/75188/2193969-vswondy.jpg

WM isn't exactly trading blows with Beast, going toe-to-toe with him. He's just hurling him(?) through some windows.

Next page:
http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/75188/2193970-vswondey2.jpg

So it's hardly that great a feat.

Also, Dareangel, you have said that Wolverine would beat Beast, but Beast has a good chance against Sabes.

Sabes is Wolvy's better.

http://i.imgur.com/fkQrUPF.jpg

Even his HF is better:
http://i.imgur.com/2cT5cGw.jpg

So he's a faster, stronger, more agile Wolvy, with a better HF. Not to mention, more sadistic and willing to go all-out.

So not sure why Beast is even talked about here.

you forgot this scan. its prior to the one you posted. and i dont understand why are you picking on that fight so much. beast slammed him head first into a wall and knocked him out.

and sabs got his ass handed to him by wolverine more times than not no matter which upgrade, excluding the last one. but again, sabs seem to lose his last upgrade and became once again the long haired jobber who does nothing but try to cut and slash. the reason why wolverine is more of a challenge to beast than sabretooth is because of skills and speed. sabretooth has strength advantage but to beast it doesnt matter he is still stronger. however speed and skills are a better weapon vs beast. i dont know where you got the idea sabretooth is more agile and faster than wolverine its simply isnt true. aside again, his last upgrade which didnt last long for some reason.

Originally posted by Dareangel
you forgot this scan. its prior to the one you posted. and i dont understand why are you picking on that fight so much. beast slammed him head first into a wall and knocked him out.

and sabs got his ass handed to him by wolverine more times than not no matter which upgrade, excluding the last one. but again, sabs seem to lose his last upgrade and became once again the long haired jobber who does nothing but try to cut and slash. the reason why wolverine is more of a challenge to beast than sabretooth is because of skills and speed. sabretooth has strength advantage but to beast it doesnt matter he is still stronger. however speed and skills are a better weapon vs beast. i dont know where you got the idea sabretooth is more agile and faster than wolverine its simply isnt true. aside again, his last upgrade which didnt last long for some reason.

I pick on it, because the Frenzy fight has been debunked, lol.

Also, because I was led to believe Beast when toe to toe against WM, when in fact he mostly just used his superior agility. He didn't slam him into a wall, he diverted him. WM slammed himself into a wall.

You also didn't see my scans. If Wolverine has a speed advantage over Beast....Sabes is even faster than Wolvy. If Wolverine has a skills advantage....Sabes is even deadlier.

It's all there, in a canon comic.

And as you have said, Sabes is stronger than Beast.

As to where I got my idea? Here is my scan again.
http://imgur.com/fkQrUPF

'A stutter step behind him in every respect. Almost as fast, almost as strong, almost as tough, almost as deadly...that's Wolverine.

There you have it. Wolverine is a smidge behind Sabes in every respect.

The version of Beast you're using gets killed, FAST. Don't know why you hindered him like he is some kind of Herald or something. He's fodder here.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I pick on it, because the Frenzy fight has been debunked, lol.

Also, because I was led to believe Beast when toe to toe against WM, when in fact he mostly just used his superior agility. He didn't slam him into a wall, he diverted him. WM slammed himself into a wall.

You also didn't see my scans. If Wolverine has a speed advantage over Beast....Sabes is even faster than Wolvy. If Wolverine has a skills advantage....Sabes is even deadlier.

It's all there, in a canon comic.

And as you have said, Sabes is stronger than Beast.

As to where I got my idea? Here is my scan again.
http://imgur.com/fkQrUPF

'A stutter step behind him in every respect. Almost as fast, almost as strong, almost as tough, almost as deadly...that's Wolverine.

There you have it. Wolverine is a smidge behind Sabes in every respect.


no, i already explained to you that it was beast slamming him. wonder man was comming at him and beast flipped him with his legs sending him into the wall. i already gave explanations dont need to write it again.

so just because beast had some kind of amp we didnt know about when fighting frenzy, you dont believe your own eyes which show you beast slamming wonder man into the wall with his legs?

i know wolverine and sabretooth by far better than a hyperbole statement from wolverine vol2 #126. even after the second upgrade wolverine most of the time owned sabretooth. he was easily portrayed during the mojoeiry of their encounters as more skilled faster and more agile. sabretooth always had the strength advanatge over him and hatered towards logan working for him. why wont you post the fight at the x mansion where wolverine is tired of creed and really puts him out. sabretooth only got superior to logan in every single aspect once he got his third and last upgrade in wolverine #166. after that he somehow for some reason lost his upgrade and once again became wolverines inferior. comics events of wolverine and sabretooth >>>>>>> some random hyperbole statement means to boast the main villian.

Originally posted by carver9
The version of Beast you're using gets killed, FAST. Don't know why you hindered him like he is some kind of Herald or something. He's fodder here.

because it takes a herald to be able to knock out wolverine and sabretooth?

Originally posted by Dareangel
because it takes a herald to be able to knock out wolverine and sabretooth?

Reread my post. I said you hindered him like he is a Herald or something. Also, Wolverine and Sabertooth have both endured attacks from Heralds.

Originally posted by Dareangel
because it takes a herald to be able to knock out wolverine and sabretooth? at least 70% of the time a character does have to be herald level in order to Ko either of them. Hell, half the time, not even heralds can knock them out. I've lost count of how many times Logan has endured a beating from the hulk. Sabretooth has taken punches from Luke cage, colossus, rogue, etc.

Originally posted by deathslash
at least 70% of the time a character does have to be herald level in order to Ko either of them. Hell, half the time, not even heralds can knock them out. I've lost count of how many times Logan has endured a beating from the hulk. Sabretooth has taken punches from Luke cage, colossus, rogue, etc.

mister x, gorgon, daredevil, captain america, spider- man, rogue are all heralds right? both of them knocked each other out as well. dont try to go there. every street has showings of survivng and taking hits from very strong bricks.

Originally posted by Dareangel
no, i already explained to you that it was beast slamming him. wonder man was comming at him and beast flipped him with his legs sending him into the wall. i already gave explanations dont need to write it again.

so just because beast had some kind of amp we didnt know about when fighting frenzy, you dont believe your own eyes which show you beast slamming wonder man into the wall with his legs?

i know wolverine and sabretooth by far better than a hyperbole statement from wolverine vol2 #126. even after the second upgrade wolverine most of the time owned sabretooth. he was easily portrayed during the mojoeiry of their encounters as more skilled faster and more agile. sabretooth always had the strength advanatge over him and hatered towards logan working for him. why wont you post the fight at the x mansion where wolverine is tired of creed and really puts him out. sabretooth only got superior to logan in every single aspect once he got his third and last upgrade in wolverine #166. after that he somehow for some reason lost his upgrade and once again became wolverines inferior. comics events of wolverine and sabretooth >>>>>>> some random hyperbole statement means to boast the main villian.

My own eyes show that Beast is diverting WOnder Man, nothing more, nothing less. Beast's own words confirm this - it was his athleticism, not his athleticism and strength.

It's basically a trope.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeadlyDodging

It's entirely possible for Beast to add onto Wonderman's momentum.

It's impossible to say how much of it was wonderman's own force and how much Beast added when he redirected him.

Either way it's a good combat showing, not so much for strength.

I'm surprised it's actually being discussed. It's not rocket science.

Same. From the way it was sold, however, it sounded like Beast beat the snot out of Wonderman and KOed him.

Guys, let's back it up a bit here. Beast was kissed by Infectia, which halted the virus that decreased his intelligence. He recovered from both, retaining the extra strength he gained. It was a permanent upgrade as far as I recall.

The Frenzy feat is still legit for that reason. I'm not supporting Beast here--he hasn't been written that way in forever; but, he was being pushed for a small time with that upgrade. He really did tear tanks apart and shit.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
My own eyes show that Beast is diverting WOnder Man, nothing more, nothing less. Beast's own words confirm this - it was his athleticism, not his athleticism and strength.

It's basically a trope.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeadlyDodging

yes his athletism allowed him to do that move fast enough with the right felixbility. again, you are ignoring the facts in the scan. you see beast having his legs up which means he used them, as well as a sound effect that is telling us he made a contact. its not a rocket science to realize beast used his legs to slam wonderman into the wall. considering the levels of durability wonder man has, and specially then, remember during those days he traded blows with thor, its really unlikely that if he runs into a wall by his force alone he will be knocked out. even if wonder man added momentum of his own, it should take big amount of strength to add to that in order to knock him out

alright so his upgrade was Permanent? because someone here claimed it was for brief period of time and was gone. can people just admit the real facts without the need to hide something so they can win an internet argument? i mean just present the facts as they are.

Originally posted by Dareangel
yes his athletism allowed him to do that move fast enough with the right felixbility. again, you are ignoring the facts in the scan. you see beast having his legs up which means he used them, as well as a sound effect that is telling us he made a contact. its not a rocket science to realize beast used his legs to slam wonderman into the wall. considering the levels of durability wonder man has, and specially then, remember during those days he traded blows with thor, its really unlikely that if he runs into a wall by his force alone he will be knocked out. even if wonder man added momentum of his own, it should take big amount of strength to add to that in order to knock him out

Please, re read the scan.

Beast's words:
'Good thing for me I'm so athletic....Wonder Man's momentum almost carried him through the wall!'

Zero mention of Beast adding strength. The only reference to momentum, is Wonder Man's own.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Please, re read the scan.

Beast's words:
'Good thing for me I'm so athletic....Wonder Man's momentum almost carried him through the wall!'

Zero mention of Beast adding strength. The only reference to momentum, is Wonder Man's own.

again, there is no argument beast used his athletism to perform that feat. he mentioned good thing he was athletic enough to perform what he did. dont see how it contradicts anything. his tactic of dropping on his back and drive wonder man into a wall was chosen to be refered more as athletic feat. however, it doesnt change the fact the scan literally shows us beast drove wonder man with his legs into that wall. i also dont argue that there wasnt any momentum. wonder man was going at him. so beast used that momentum while adding his own strength to that. you can clearly see that in the scan. very simple.

i will repeat another point again. wonder man has insane durability. during that time specially he traded blows with thor easily. his durability is on a herald level. do you believe him just running into a wall is enough to knock him out? there had to me massive strength added to that in order to knock him out. this is wonder man not a random street thug. the purpose of this statement is not to suggest beast used his own strength to add to the momentum, its shown in the scan and is a fact. my statement is meant to prove beast added serious power to the knock out

You're reaching.

Originally posted by Dareangel
alright so his upgrade was Permanent? because someone here claimed it was for brief period of time and was gone. can people just admit the real facts without the need to hide something so they can win an internet argument? i mean just present the facts as they are.
It was permanent, but it's like Psylocke's vanishing telekinesis. Writers just stopped using it, so we're forced to assume it's no longer a power.

Marvel eventually remembered Betsy has tk though. Beast hasn't been so lucky lol.

Originally posted by StyleTime
It was permanent, but it's like Psylocke's vanishing telekinesis. Writers just stopped using it, so we're forced to assume it's no longer a power.

Marvel eventually remembered Betsy has tk though. Beast hasn't been so lucky lol.

i see. thanks