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I know of the quote in the Revan novel, and I believe it entirely; but to help with a debate I'm in at the moment; is there any other supporting evidence to suggest that Revan is superior to Nihilus? Ant has spoken with Drew before right? Did he say anything about that? If not, how can I contact him to ask him? If that's possible. This is the debate for anybody even remotely interested, https://www.facebook.com/groups/642540295899151/permalink/699311126888734/?comment_id=699313176888529&reply_comment_id=701230580030122&notif_t=group_comment_mention&notif_id=1476305539916936

There is none, because he isn't.

Nihilus had more powerful. He originally was to kill Revan and his mask was supposed to be Revan's skull.

Originally posted by Darth Abonis
Nihilus had more powerful. He originally was to kill Revan and his mask was supposed to be Revan's skull. Source for this information?

Meetra said Revan was the most powerful force wielder she had ever met. Sounds like proof to me.

Not what she said. The actual source could just as easily be interpreted as force mastery as power. And Mandalorian Wars Revan obviously doesn't have more power than Nihilus.

Originally posted by Nephthys
There is none, because he isn't.

The quote in question refers to command of the Force anyways, not power.

^^^Which Drew seems to often use as a synonym for power.

Also Avellone has Revan > Nihilus.

IIRC Avellone's answer was some bs about Revan not using Nihilus' drain or something.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Also Avellone has Revan > Nihilus. Do you have the quote?

So, Avellone has personally vouched that Kreia's comments are true, which state the ancient Sith are greater than Darth Nihilus.

Likewise, Avellone has said that Revan is one of the most powerful beings in Star Wars and the top contender in the Old Republic era.

When we connect the dots, it's clear that he has Revan and the ancients at the top of the era, and then Darth Nihilus slightly behind.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
So, Avellone has personally vouched that Kreia's comments are true, which state the ancient Sith are greater than Darth Nihilus.

Likewise, Avellone has said that Revan is one of the most powerful beings in Star Wars and the top contender in the Old Republic era.

When we connect the dots, it's clear that he has Revan and the ancients at the top of the era, and then Darth Nihilus slightly behind. Can I find those quotes on your Revan RT? I may need those to help support my argument as well.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
So, Avellone has personally vouched that Kreia's comments are true, which state the ancient Sith are greater than Darth Nihilus.

Likewise, Avellone has said that Revan is one of the most powerful beings in Star Wars and the top contender in the Old Republic era.

When we connect the dots, it's clear that he has Revan and the ancients at the top of the era, and then Darth Nihilus slightly behind.

Avellone's idea's were never implemented. And pretty sure that second sentence is just you taking what you want to take from it.

Nihilus is on another level to Revan and always has been. For all your emails to Avellone, this is still clearly the case in Kotor II.

Lmao. So it's never been confirmed despite Ant desperately wanting to see what's not there.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Avellone's idea's were never implemented. And pretty sure that second sentence is just you taking what you want to take from it.

Nihilus is on another level to Revan and always has been. For all your emails to Avellone, this is still clearly the case in Kotor II.
Avellone has specifically stated Revan is one of the most powerful beings in history and has specifically stated he is the top contender of his era.

Accept the facts.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Can I find those quotes on your Revan RT? I may need those to help support my argument as well.
Which ones do you need? Some are there, but ones on Kreia and such aren't.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Avellone has specifically stated Revan is one of the most powerful beings in history and has specifically stated he is the top contender of his era.

Accept the facts.

I notice you're still not posting any of this so it's pretty obvious its just more twisting to take what you want from it.

Avellone's decade-expired opinions aren't facts at any rate.

Oh my, what a devastating quote. So I guess Revan = ANH Luke? Shit, you got me man. Owned.

I assume he's referring to that general time-period.

That's not a rebuttal, btw. That's you trying to desperately save face.

Ant - 198,621, Nephthys - 0

Originally posted by Nephthys
Avellone's idea's were never implemented. And pretty sure that second sentence is just you taking what you want to take from it.
His ideas may not have ever been implemented, but they are nonetheless rather useful in interpreting his characters and since your arguments for Nihilus' superiority appear to be entirely within the realm of Avellone's work and contributions to the lore, I don't see the problem with Ant's inferences here tbh. Granted, I don't subscribe to the KMC community's highly dismissive notions of authorial intent, so there's that.

Neph's arguments are completely dismissing several quotes and all author intent.

So, standard Neph.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I assume he's referring to that general time-period.

That's not a rebuttal, btw. That's you trying to desperately save face.

Ant - 198,621, Nephthys - 0

You mean like how Luke is the strongest in the OT for realz definitely no one else can't think of him getting owned by anyone ever nope.

He's talking about which character exemplifies the franchise, which means nothing. "Top contender" is also meaningless. And everyone and their grandma is one of the most powerful ever. All pointless nothings.

Go email him again, ask him to soothe those tears.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He's talking about which character exemplifies the franchise, which means nothing.
Within the context of the power levels of Force users.

It goes back to the point that Revan literally embodies KotOR / SWTOR.

All I'm seeing from you is denial, denial, denial. Pretty

Your quote doesn't give any context because you're only posting the parts of it you want to. But if that is accurate he's clearly moving the point away from actual power by saying that the "top contender" is the one who exemplifies the franchise. Obviously (to most) that has nothing to do with actual power levels. Luke isn't the strongest in the OT any more than Revan is in Kotor.

Top contender meaning MVP of the era.

Ant. Are you seriously trying to argue that Luke in A New Hope is superior to Sidious and Vader?

Which doesn't mean he's the strongest or most powerful? Like.... duh?

I mean. Ant, I like you and all. But be real here for a second.

I don't think he's specifically referring to A New Hope. I think he's referring to Luke Skywalker in general, i.e. the most powerful Jedi ever, in which his origins are shown in A New Hope.

"

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I think he's referring to Luke Skywalker in general, i.e. the most powerful Jedi ever, in which his origins are shown in A New Hope.

Then the ANH to FOTJ franchise.

Basically, what I *consistently* see here is the Nihilus Brigade constantly undergoing a state of denial and defense, rather than acceptance or offense.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Then the ANH to FOTJ franchise.

You're an idiot.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
a state of denial and defense

The irony is crushing here.

Ant's left reality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBR1NgVtdDM

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Then the ANH to FOTJ franchise.

Basically, what I *consistently* see here is the Nihilus Brigade constantly undergoing a state of denial and defense, rather than acceptance or offense.

We're in a state of defense because we are the one's defending against this claim since its readily apparent that Nihilus > Revan in terms of feats and displayed power. Therefore, the burden is on you to prove that despite the tangible evidence, Revan is on top for some reason.

In other words, you need to try harder.

Nihilus is below the ancients per the guy who actually created the character, and then wrote for him, lmao.

@Ant, if a source makes a claim, does the claim still hold if new evidence comes out afterwards that the source couldn't have anticipated (.i.e. the ancient sith being much different from what Avellone envisioned)?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
@Ant, if a source makes a claim, does the claim still hold if new evidence comes out afterwards that the source couldn't have anticipated (.i.e. the ancient sith being much different from what Avellone envisioned)? How are the ancients different then what was envisioned tho?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
@Ant, if a source makes a claim, does the claim still hold if new evidence comes out afterwards that the source couldn't have anticipated (.i.e. the ancient sith being much different from what Avellone envisioned)?
The ancient Sith of Avellone's is consistent with other lore.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Nihilus is below the ancients per the guy who actually created the character, and then wrote for him, lmao.

Avellone's idea's for the ancients and the sith were never implemented like I said and were later retconned and canned.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The ancient Sith of Avellone's is consistent with other lore.

He thought they could shape galaxies and shit.

He's not referring to SWTOR. He's referring to his guys.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
He thought they could shape galaxies and shit.
Not with the Force.

Can you post the original question?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Which ones do you need? Some are there, but ones on Kreia and such aren't. Yeah, the ones for Kreia saying that the ancients are > Nihilus.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Can you post the original question? My original question? It was just whether or not Revan really is superior to Nihilus, whether Revan would win a battle, VS forum kind of stuff. This thread is just me trying to gather sources to back my case for Revan.

Oh, I mean Ant's, or whatever Avellone was responding to.

Revan is considered by Traya to be the literal heart of the Force despite knowing how strong Nihilus and the Ancients are. She basically makes him out to be the Jesus Christ of the Force.

Originally posted by The Merchant
Revan is considered by Traya to be the literal heart of the Force despite knowing how strong Nihilus and the Ancients are. She basically makes him out to be the Jesus Christ of the Force. I hate when people misinterpret that quote.

She says "Revan was power, it was like staring into the heart of the force."

I know what she said, that doesn't change what I said. We all know Revan wasn't LITERALLY the heart of the Forced, but the fact that he was compared to such gives off Trayas opinion on his power, which is pretty clear cut.

Revan>Ancients>Nihilus.

The only thing Nihilus has over the former two is how according to Traya he is using a technique that not only did the Ancient Sith forbid themselves from using since they'll end up like him, but he mastered it to new heights. But in terms of raw force power the former are still above him. In the DS path Traya says that after Nihilus absorbed multiple planets and how he brought the technique he uses to drain to its peak, his power would only rival some of the ancient Sith, I assume the ones that were mentioned in-game are the ones she's referring to. I already explained Revans situation.

No, there's no proof that Revan's more powerful than Nihilus. Avellone never once said that Revan was more powerful than Nihilus (the quote posted earlier in this thread refers to character strength, not Force power, lmfao), and both Kreia and the Exile's comments in-game indicate otherwise.

Kreia claims that it's impossible to be as powerful as Nihilus without being some irrational abomination, whereas she clearly views Revan as being rational.

Likewise, the Exile doesn't believe that the level of power Nihilus wields is possible based on hearsay alone (with her having served alongside Revan in the Mandalorian Wars), let alone the fact that the game files note her realizing that Nihilus was far more powerful than she realized when she encountered him on the bridge of the Ravager.

The fact that Revan's " like the Heart of the Force" in Kreia's mind means nothing. Mid-game Exile was "like the death of the Force", yet she was a infinitesimal speck in comparison to Nihilus.

The fact that Meetra Surik thinks MW Revan's command of the Force far exceeded a bunch of renegade Jedi in the post-Jedi Civil War era in what might as well be an alternate reality where Surik suddenly gets ill from not feeling the Force (even though she endured that for a decade) and Sion/Traya/Nihilus were learning off teachings Malak uncovered doesn't mean anything to me. Drew shows in every source he's written pertaining to KotOR II that he doesn't know anything about the game (he doesn't even know when it took place, lmfao), and Avellone's non-game claims aren't canon - not that he's said anything about Revan > Nihilus anyway.

Nihilus > any Revan pre-SoR.

Originally posted by SunRazer
The fact that Meetra Surik thinks MW Revan's command of the Force far exceeded a bunch of renegade Jedi in the post-Jedi Civil War era in what might as well be an alternate reality where Surik suddenly gets ill from not feeling the Force (even though she endured that for a decade) and Sion/Traya/Nihilus were learning off teachings Malak uncovered doesn't mean anything to me. Drew shows in every source he's written pertaining to KotOR II that he doesn't know anything about the game (he doesn't even know when it took place, lmfao), and Avellone's non-game claims aren't canon - not that he's said anything about Revan > Nihilus anyway.
In other words, "I don't like it, so I'm not going to believe it."

No, Drew is always incorrect on KotOR II, so he's wrong. It's that simple. It has nothing to do with what I like. As I said, his quote applies to the renegade Jedi from the post-JCW era, not Nihilus as depicted in KotOR II.

That's fancy coming from you with these outlandish interpretations of quotes that don't mean anything close to what you pretend they do.

No, you can't dismiss a source because you don't like it, lmfao.

The quote doesn't apply to "renegade Jedi," which the Triumvirate were anyway.

The quote applies to everyone the Exile ever knew, which includes Nihilus.

I already told you - this has nothing to do with what I like. This is about Drew thinking that KotOR II took place five years later than it really did, thinking that the Exile would get ill from experiencing something that she uniquely endured for a decade, Drew thinking that Traya, Sion etc. turned to teachings that Malak uncovered, that the Exile is some generic Jedi without the notable ability to form Force Bonds or anything of the sort, that the Triumvirate were just a splinter faction of Jedi from after the Jedi Civil War, and that there were somehow tens of thousands of Jedi remaining after the JCW for the Triumvirate to slaughter. As I said, he's dead wrong on everything KotOR II every time he writes something about it.

So I see no reason for it to apply to a medium that Drew has already shown such blatant disrespect and ignorance for. He hasn't got a single detail about the game right. Since you love to talk about Avellone's authorial intent, what makes you think that Karpyshyn's references to the game were made with the authorial intent of referring to Nihilus as depicted in KotOR II, or anything close? As I said, MW Revan's command of the Force is far greater than the Nihilus who split away from the Jedi Order after the events of the Jedi Civil War and studied teachings that Malak had already uncovered. Which doesn't fit the Nihilus of KotOR II in any way, shape or form.

And I take you that you agree with me on all the other points relating to how KotOR II supports Nihilus > Revan as opposed to the other way around?

I'll try to explain on very basic terms, since many of you can't grasp this basic concept:

The fact the text doesn't refer them to dark side abominations doesn't mean they weren't. Lack of mention one way or another isn't a retcon or dismissal, just not addressing the point in general. The text's description of them is true - they were former Jedi turned Sith Lords that assumed control of the remnants of Revan's Sith Empire. These points aren't disputable.

If XY canonically exists, and a source of frankly higher canoncity just mentions X, that doesn't mean Y never happened. It means Y wasn't mentioned.

I'm frankly angry with myself I even entertain discussions like these, because they suggest there's any legitimacy to your cause, which there isn't. It's the rejection of canon in favor of pre-conceived biases, which you can't do.

The point is not up for debate.

To clarify again, your point will *never* have any ground to stand on by sheer virtue of what it is: the rejection of a canon source.

There's no reason to even try. You literally can not win.

No, the text's descriptions aren't true. Kreia didn't lead a splinter group of Jedi after the Jedi Civil War, and Malak uncovering the teachings that Nihilus, Sion, Kreia etc. discovered? Completely untrue. Tens of thousands of Jedi being around at that time? Completely untrue.

Sorry, but even "canonical" quotes aren't infallible. On what basis do you dismiss things like Bastila being on par with Obi-Wan/Dooku, and so on? "Preconceived biases"? Or logic?

And more importantly, this has nothing to do with pre-conceived biases. This has to do with pre-conceived continuity, which Drew isn't just retconning, but completely alienating himself from. He isn't writing about KotOR II in any sort of comparable context as us. He lives in some wonderland where every detail about the game is altered, or he's just too ignorant to care. Either way, that doesn't bode well for his credibility, and if he's spending the entire novel referring to this alternate reality KotOR II that he's even written his own fan-fic backstory for, what makes you think that this quote would suddenly apply to the KotOR II that we've known and seen?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
To clarify again, your point will *never* have any ground to stand on by sheer virtue of what it is: the rejection of a canon source.

There's no reason to even try. You literally can not win.

In other words - "I don't care what you say, my denial will always stand true"? Great.

My point has very substantial ground, and as you can see, it has much more support than yours. It's not about the rejection of a canon source, it's about the rejection of a source that refers to a completely different version of the game than the one we know. I don't deny the quote about Revan's command of the Force, but it's obvious that it applies to Drew's version of KotOR II, not Avellone's version. And that's all there is to it.

I've already disproven everything else Drew's ever said about KotOR II and shown that he has a completely different conception of the game to those of us in the real world. So I've yet to see a credible reason for why the quote about Revan refers to KotOR II as we know it, and not Drew's imaginary version, other than your whinging and whining about how "it's canon, and you're denying it!"

Firstly, you can't "reject" a source, lmfao.

Secondly, the reasons of your "rejection" aren't even legitimate.

Your point is genuinely and truly rendered false the instant you even mutter it. There's no debate. There's no discussion. You are factually and objectively wrong - I, unsurprisingly, am factually and objectively right.

The only individuals who will ever adopt your theory are those whose career is consumed by denial - Nephthys, WollfMyth, etc.

There's no reason to argue the point. It's inherently wrong.

And no, the text is true. I'll elaborate more when I'm back on my computer, so in 8 so hours.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Firstly, you can't "reject" a source, lmfao.

Just like you can't reject Bastila being on par with Dooku and Obi-Wan? Or that Dooku was almost on par with Yoda, with the latter having only a slight edge over the Count?

And if it helps, don't think of it as me "rejecting" the source. Just correcting the fact that Drew's quote applies to his incorrect, fan-edited version of KotOR II, not everybody else's.



What a convincing argument. Perhaps you could time-travel back to the 30's and convince Hitler not to commit any of his atrocities? I'm sure he'll be swayed by your claims that you're factually and objectively right whilst everybody who disagrees with you is some fraudulent idiot.



Wollf is consumed by denial? He's waged a several-month long anti-KotOR II campaign and it's only been recently that he's begun to agree with me on KotOR II. Heck, even Syn, who's friends with you and bitterly opposed to me and all things KotOR II, isn't in agreement with you here.



The last time somebody was this wrong was in 1939 when someone walked out of a plane in Britain waving a piece of paper and declaring that there'd be no war.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Then the ANH to FOTJ franchise. Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
You're an idiot.

If we're dismissing the Revan novel becuz of Drew being in magical fairy land or whatever, then why not dismiss the feats of KOTOR II because Avellone is in some magical fairy land where the Force itself is inflated (he thinks most of the ancient Sith are powerful enough to drain planets and that most of these guys are beneath Vader)?

You open a whole different set of issues once you pull this source ignoring shit.

You either apply context to a quote so that it makes sense or you ignore if it does not align with what is presented in actuality.

Hopefully we'll have an answer soon. I e-mailed Drew Karpyshyn last night and asked him about the quote in the Revan novel implying Revan>Nihilus. I'll let everybody know when he answers me.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No, you can't dismiss a source because you don't like it, lmfao.


*cough* SIDIOUS IS THE MOST POWERFUL *cough*

I have Palpatine as first. mmm

You have the Sidious in-between TPM and RotS as first?

Yes.

Oh wow, you've changed.

You are coming around full circle.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
If we're dismissing the Revan novel becuz of Drew being in magical fairy land or whatever, then why not dismiss the feats of KOTOR II because Avellone is in some magical fairy land where the Force itself is inflated (he thinks most of the ancient Sith are powerful enough to drain planets and that most of these guys are beneath Vader)?

You open a whole different set of issues once you pull this source ignoring shit.

He doesn't think they're below Vader with respect to power, only as characters. And besides, what's wrong with most of KotOR II being below Vader?

The Ancient Sith were depicted as insanely powerful (with regards to context), and their ability to drain planets is hardly insane when their mere deaths poison entire planets with immense dark side energies. And particularly at that time, when modern Sith weren't fleshed out (Vader, Dooku, Maul, Bane, etc.) or just didn't exist (Caedus, Krayt, Zannah, etc.)

KotOR II is the original source. You can't dismiss that. The Revan novel isn't dismissed just because it's a strange source, but because it contradicts KotOR II on everything. There's no need to dismiss the quote's validity, only dismiss the quote when applied in context to KotOR II as we know it, because it doesn't apply to that version of KotOR II.

It's also obvious that Drew isn't writing MW Revan as being far more powerful than somebody who can manipulate fleets and obliterate portions of capital ships with a simple outburst of energy. And we can see that in Revan's displays of telekinesis in the novel, and so on. The comparison simply isn't valid. There's nothing about ignoring, just applying it where it's right, and not applying it where it clearly doesn't apply. I've made my case. If you disagree, then so be it.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The text's description of them is true - they were former Jedi turned Sith Lords that assumed control of the remnants of Revan's Sith Empire. These points aren't disputable.

No, they weren't. Only Kreia was.

Sion was a Sith Marauder back from Exar Kun's army and Nihilus was at Malachor, but there is no mention of him being a Jedi.

And yes, Karpyshyn got everything wrong. He couldn't even be bothered to read a few wookipedia articles, much less play the game on which a significant part of his book rested on.

After reading the book I was actually thankful their names weren't Scion, Kreya, and Nihlus.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Wollf is consumed by denial?

Anyone who disagrees with Ant is, apparently.

That should be obvious, given his whole "your argument's wrong as soon as you say it, since it's your argument, whilst I'm perfect in every way" speech.

Essentially, yeah. mmm

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t634415.html

Funny hearing Nova debating how to correctly apply context...

Originally posted by Unbowed
No, they weren't. Only Kreia was.

Sion was a Sith Marauder back from Exar Kun's army and Nihilus was at Malachor, but there is no mention of him being a Jedi.

And yes, Karpyshyn got everything wrong. He couldn't even be bothered to read a few wookipedia articles, much less play the game on which a significant part of his book rested on.

After reading the book I was actually thankful their names weren't Scion, Kreya, and Nihlus. Nihilus was a Jedi before and during the Battle of Malachor V. Then he turned Sith after the battle when he had his hunger.

Originally posted by darthbane77
Nihilus was a Jedi before and during the Battle of Malachor V. Then he turned Sith after the battle when he had his hunger.
There is no mention of him being a a Jedi. Just that "the man" who became Nihilus lost his family and friends on Malachor.

If he was a Jedi it would have been mentioned. In fact, it seems to me that by referring to him as "a man" and mentioning that he lost his family, they went around their way to imply he wasn't a Jedi.

He probably was either a Republic soldier with undiscovered Force potential, much like Atton, or was from a world conquered by the Mandalorians and forced into their service for logistical support, like Mira and her folks.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t634415.html

Originally posted by Unbowed
There is no mention of him being a a Jedi. Just that "the man" who became Nihilus lost his family and friends on Malachor.

If he was a Jedi it would have been mentioned. In fact, it seems to me that by referring to him as "a man" and mentioning that he lost his family, they went around their way to imply he wasn't a Jedi.

He probably was either a Republic soldier with undiscovered Force potential, much like Atton, or was from a world conquered by the Mandalorians and forced into their service for logistical support, like Mira and her folks. Yeah I just looked into it, seems I was wrong. He had to at least have been Force Sensitive at the time though, even if he wasn't a Jedi.

@Legend - You know I'm disputing what the Revan novel claims, right? Quoting the passage again doesn't help your case.



Right, and even you recognized that KotOR II takes place five years after the original KotOR. Yet in Insider #88: Heritage of the Sith, Drew claims that:



How could it be an entire decade between the rise of Traya and co. if they died only five years after KotOR? Drew didn't research the game, that's how.



Nathema is a world where the Force simply couldn't be felt altogether. And guess what the Exile spent ten years doing? Not feeling the Force. Why is she suddenly getting sick over it now? The fact that she's no longer a Wound in the Force doesn't make a difference. She spent ten years walking the galaxy without feeling the Force.



They didn't establish the Academy there, they found one. Sion outright states that the Sith Academy existed long before the Mandalorian Wars.

More importantly, the fact that Revan discovered most of the things that Traya and the others did may well be possible. Malak, however? That seems unlikely. Malak never learned the power of Force Drain (no, the Jedi in the Stasis Machines do not count), nor did he learn the ability to create Wounds in the Force to mask his presence. The teachings about Malachor V were about masking your presence through echoes in the Force (which is why Nihilus was never sensed as he approached Katarr, as we know in Unseen, Unheard), which Malak never once did. In fact, Bastila felt his presence as he approached the Leviathan in KotOR. Malachor V's teachings were also about leaving Wounds in the Force after striking, which again, Malak never did.

If Malak knew any of these powers, why would he never use them?



I'm aware of that quote. However, the fact that Surik doesn't form any Force Bonds to Revan later in the novel, or to Scourge, is a problem. In KotOR II, the Exile was forming Bonds near-instantly with people she met, and with unnatural strength as well. It was one of her great strengths, and that fact was completely ignored in the novel.

And no, she didn't learn it from Revan. She was exhibiting the power even before she joined the Mandalorian Wars, as stated by Vrook Lamar in KotOR II:









Actually, the quote I was talking about was this:



And that's wrong. The novel alleges that the Sith Triumvirate was entirely comprised of Jedi who broke away from the Jedi Order after the Jedi Civil War. Which isn't true, as per the KotORCG:







So we know that it wasn't just a bunch of Jedi who left the Order to join the Triumvirate - it was also the surviving Sith from Revan's Empire. And in fact, that would've comprised the majority. Nowhere it is said that Jedi ever defected to the Triumvirate after the War (there's no reason to, anyway), so that's just something else Drew made up.

Besides, Kreia never "went rogue" (which is defined as the cessation of following orders from higher authorities). She was exiled from the Jedi Order:



Granted, Kreia was lying about that fact, since the game indicates that she's Arren Kae, who was exiled over the shame of her birth:



Chris Avellone claims that Brianna is 25 in KotOR II (http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/25061-age-of-the-characters/), so that would mean that if Kreia/Kae was exiled about a decade after the birth, that would mean it was fifteen years before KotOR II. 15 years before 3951 BBY would be 3966 BBY, which is shortly before the big conflicts in the Mandalorian Wars. And that make sense, since the quote I posted above states that Kae joined the Mandalorian Wars after she was exiled.

If Kreia was exiled before the end of the Mandalorian Wars, how could she have gone rogue from the Jedi after the end of the Jedi Civil War? Because Drew doesn't research, that's why.

Many padawans would've died in the bombing of the training academy on Dantooine, but regardless, we know there were barely, or even less than a hundred Jedi remaining after KotOR. Not tens of thousands.









So again, Drew doesn't know what he's talking about.



Revan affecting planets with his powers under dubious circumstances isn't of interest to me. What's of interest to me are Revan's telekinetic showings in the novel, which, if he's far, far more powerful than Nihilus by the Mandalorian Wars alone, don't match up with his purported power. Nihilus in KotOR II can disintegrate parts of capital ships with his outbursts of power. He holds together a fleet of 1200m ships with his will alone, not even a gesture. Revan never once exhibits that sort of power in the novel. His telekinetic feats are more of the sort of throwing sarcophagus lids and collapsing archways, which is pretty pitiful in comparison (not saying that they represent his best, of course). Not to mention that Drew Karpyshyn claims that Revan might be able to collapse a building under optimal circumstances. For those of you who take his quotes on Malak > Revan etc. seriously, including Ant, then clearly Drew doesn't think Revan can manipulate a fleet of 1200m ships.

At the end of the day, Drew gets facts from KotOR II wrong over and over again. He doesn't even think the Triumvirate that the Exile faced were anything like those in KotOR II. With such gaping disparities between KotOR II and Drew's version of KotOR II, I'm not seeing much of a reason to take his comment about MW Revan being far more powerful than characters who can manipulate fleets seriously when it's obvious that Drew clearly doesn't think that Revan wields that sort of power anyway.