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What do ya' think?

Above Dooku.

Above Dooku in the Force, Fisto tier in actual combat

On par Karness Muur.

Below Maul

^^
lol:

Greater than Bane

He burned a bunch of houses! OMG!

Anyways, above Maul, below Dooku.

Up


Originally posted by MythLord
He burned a bunch of houses! OMG!

So...average-Arsonists level?

In all honestly pretty high. Somewhere between Dooku and Vader.

But below both. Try between Maul and Dooku... maybe...

Just burning a village isn't impressive.

Maul's supposed superiority over Sedriss, Ventress, Jerec,... alone shoudl be enough to put him above Dreypa.

I'm not even sure he's above Maul.

Originally posted by MythLord
But below both. Try between Maul and Dooku... maybe...

Just burning a village isn't impressive.

It's the face that they're a rival to Muur.

Which is impressive how?

As Muur ia extremely impressive.

Being more powerful then Vong Krayt? Wauw, I'm impressed.

Yep. Along with all the combatants in the area he overwhelmed with a blast of force energy.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Being more powerful then Vong Krayt? Wauw, I'm impressed.
Hm...
Muur >> Vong Krayt >> Wyyrlok(BoS) >> Nihl, who has feats that put him on Ventress+ level, forcewise.

Who did what?

Muur blasted multiple powerful Force users out of the area including Cade before dominating Krayt.

Pushing isn't that impressive.

He didn't push them. He blasted them all out of the area with a continuous wave of Force energy.

What is Cade's best accomplishments?

Something good. I don't know. Ask the Legacy wankers.

Legacy is mainly scaling, tbh. IIRC, he dominated Talon.

And Talon did...?

She was a hand, and bar Nihl, Wyyrlok and obviously Krayt the strongest Sith.

That's all good and fine but what does that actually mean? She's one of the best of her time, nice but there's really not that more to say about it.

Talon ripped up multiple tons of marble flooring I think?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111114474/4574434-ko+cade+tk.png
Credit to ILS


IIRC, he already did that to the time: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111140132/4235826-young+cade+tk+ship+%282o3%29.jpg http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/11114/111140132/4235827-young+cade+tk+ship+%283o3%29.jpg
Credit to Ant.

Multiple tons? I know she lifted up slabs of rock but nothing more?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Talon ripped up multiple tons of marble flooring I think?

Oh yeah? Well... this:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-EmQ8mProK2g/WCTfT-heJ5I/AAAAAAAAAzk/FZSEg3Xd4IsXaKxJ7kRQC0KqL82XHm57wCL0B/h1195/2016-11-10.png

He lifts up part of a starship but couldn't it also be that he was tapping into his anger? The comic at least implies as much

The comic implies that he is concentrated...

He's shouting in anger...

When?

Originally posted by MythLord
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-EmQ8mProK2g/WCTfT-heJ5I/AAAAAAAAAzk/FZSEg3Xd4IsXaKxJ7kRQC0KqL82XHm57wCL0B/h1195/2016-11-10.png

Hadn't he tried to dim his connection to the Force for years with drugs before that point?

It's pretty easy to tell with Cade when he's using the Dark Side.

Light side = Green eyes, dark side = red/oragne eyes.

So...he used the Dark Side in this scan? His eyes seem yellow-green.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Muur >> Vong Krayt

Originally posted by Ursumeles
So...he used the Dark Side in this scan? His eyes seem yellow-green.

He didn't.

These are his DS eyes:

http://puu.sh/sdYsT/3e1a4eeb24.jpg

Originally posted by cs_zoltan

Oh. My bad
*Muur > Vong Krayt

Why?

Because he was injured at the time and he thinks that's a good enough reason to excuse being dominated.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Why?

Why would he be? Only because he blasted Krayt with lightning when he was distracted by a lightsaber stabbing him in the f-ucking back?

On Had Abbadon, in the Deep Core, Krayt confronted Skywalker a second time. But a third Force-user possessed powers that outshone them both. Karness Muur, an ancient Sith spirit, blasted Krayt with overpowering energy, sending him over a cliff to the rocks below.

Source: Insider #113: Profile: Darth Krayt

Celeste Morne amped by the talizman

Anyhow, even if he were that's not applicable to Remulus in any shape or form.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Anyhow, even if he were that's not applicable to Remulus in any shape or form.
Yup.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Celeste Morne amped by the talizman

Lmao.

Celeste Morne amped by the talisman was enough to stop Vader, apparently... by turning his soldiers into rakghouls, not by legitimately stopping him.

I'm starting to see holes in the "Murr is > Krayt/Vader" theories now, tbh. mmm

What are the holes in Muur > Vong Krayt? It's fact that his powers outshine Krayt's.

According to Publisher Summaries, which granted you legitimately believe. Anyways, Muur's superiority over Vong Krayt is a legit thing, but to the point of domination(like some would have you believe) is just ridiculous.

Not to mention a sick Krayt...

Originally posted by Ursumeles
On Had Abbadon, in the Deep Core, Krayt confronted Skywalker a second time. But a third Force-user possessed powers that outshone them both. Karness Muur, an ancient Sith spirit, blasted Krayt with overpowering energy, sending him over a cliff to the rocks below.

Source: Insider #113: Profile: Darth Krayt
Publisher summary?

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
He didn't.

These are his DS eyes:

http://puu.sh/sdYsT/3e1a4eeb24.jpg

He can obviously tap into the Dark Side without completely falling.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Not to mention a sick Krayt... https://bigtonysfantasyleague.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/missed-the-point.png
Vong Krayt is still vastly superior to Talon, Nihl and co.

Cool, what do they have now? Being better then someone who threw a piece of metal? That's not that impressive

No; being vastly superior, to someone who oneshotted the Gramdmaster pre-prime, and who is vastly superior to Wredd, who did this:http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111173561/4605627-2745118124-46055.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111173561/4605628-4085535054-46056.jpg

Credit to TheVivas

Which IIRC happened after Krayr died?

Yes, but these f8 were still not on his level.

This is evidenced by what? Your opinion? Great, anyways do we have a better picture of the satellite?

"Muur" and Krayt actually fought and he failed to show any kind of superiority.

Muur = Krayt would be impressive enough, tbh.

Still not enough to place him above Maul in terms of feats.

@Zoltan

Originally posted by Ursumeles
No; being vastly superior, to someone who oneshotted the Gramdmaster pre-prime, and who is vastly superior to Wredd, who did this:

Credit to TheVivas

Yeah, one-shotting a guy who may or may not have been the Grandmaster while the latter's back was turned, with a continuous blast. Colour me impressed.

Also, that satellite feat is really overwanked. Not only did Wredd require help, but he simply pushed the satelite enough for it to be off-balance, and let gravity bring it down.

Anyways, why are we even arguing the semantics of Karness and Krayt when Remulus has absolutely nothing to do with it? Arguing Remulus is on par with Karness cuz he lived in the same era and had a similar title of Shadow Hand is like arguing you can scale Kit Fisto or Adi Gallia off of Anakin.

Originally posted by MythLord
Yeah, one-shotting a guy who may or may not have been the Grandmaster while the latter's back was turned, with a continuous blast. Colour me impressed.

Also, that satellite feat is really overwanked. Not only did Wredd require help, but he simply pushed the satelite enough for it to be off-balance, and let gravity bring it down.
Yeah, him choking Cade is more impressive.

Yeah, it is. But an guy who is vastly superior to an guy, who is superior to Wredd is > Maul.


Anyway, it is based on "rival". Dunno how it implies parity- Malgus and Adraas weren't peers, either.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Yeah, him choking Cade is more impressive.

With Cade's back turned, yeah. Starting to see a pattern with Nihl.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Yeah, it is. But an guy who is vastly superior to an guy, who is superior to Wredd is > Maul.

Sure, though given how Wredd is a failed Sith apprentice, apparently, it's hard to imagine Maul not being substantially ahead of him.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Anyway, it is based on "rival". Dunno how it implies parity- Malgus and Adraas weren't peers, either.

On what "rival"? Remulus has never been noted as rivalling Karness.

Lamo, what a shitty attempt at lowballing.

Originally posted by MythLord
Yeah, one-shotting a guy who may or may not have been the Grandmaster while the latter's back was turned, with a continuous blast. Colour me impressed.

If you fail to block the lightning it hardly matters if it's coming in front of your or from behind, it still needs to be lethal. There are powerful sith who failed to do that to less than council tiers. So yeah it's impressive.

And lmao, that continous stream was like 5sec.

Originally posted by MythLord
Also, that satellite feat is really overwanked. Not only did Wredd require help, but he simply pushed the satelite enough for it to be off-balance, and let gravity bring it down.

It's still a f-ucking massive stalite, with f-ucking massive supports to hold it up. I doubt they balanced it just right that a little wind can knock it up.

And even tho it required 2 guys, it's offset by the fact that Wredd is pretty low on the totem pole. At the very least he is inferior to Stryfe, who is inferior to Talon and Nihl, who are inferior to Wyyrlok, who is eclipsed by Vong Krayt.

Originally posted by MythLord
With Cade's back turned, yeah. Starting to see a pattern with Nihl.
http://www.troll.me/images/snape-dafuq/omg-youre-right.jpg
I imagine that Wredd is above a Sub-Padawan faqq tbh.
Nah, but I don't see Maul >>>>>> above Wredd

IIRC, it was noted in BoS that they were rivals.
Nothing implies a parity in power, tho.

Vong Krayt is indeed vastly superior then anyone beneath him, including Wredd however there is no evidence which says that it would still continue after his death (since that's when Wredd performed the above mentioned feat). Add to that the fact that Obi-Wan years before AotC was lifting up a giant airship alongside a 13 year old Anakin which is a feat that dwarves the one of Wredd and Maul's superiority over a more powerful Kenobi and you have your answer.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Add to that the fact that Obi-Wan years before AotC was lifting up a giant airship alongside a 13 year old Anakin which is a feat that dwarves the one of Wredd.
?

So you think Wredd went from sub-Stryfe phag to Vong Krayt+ in a year? Lmao.

Wait...
Zoltan is right.
137ABY: Reborn Krayt >> Vong Krayt > Wyyrlok >> Nihl >> Stryfe > Wredd's master > Wredd
But 138ABY: Nihl >> Wredd > Vong Krayt?

I don't think he's equal or superior no but he could very well have moved up. Where did you even get the ranking between Stryfe-Wredd's master and Wredd himself?

Stryfe was a hand, and > all Sith, which weren't hands themselves, Wyyrlok, (Saarai) and Krayt. Wredd's master dominated him, iirc, and Wredd could only free himself after he died.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Wredd could only fredd himself

heh

LMFAO

Is there any kind of indication that a Hand was combatively superior to the rest? I know it's about the most sought after position in Krayt's order but for the rest.... Nihl was also demoted from his position after he lost to Cade but he didn't become any less powerful or skilled so...?

Ask Zoltan, he explained it once to me.

Your example works against you. If Cade beating Nihl deserved him a temporary demotion then it's pretty obvious combative prowess is the most important aspect of being a Hand.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Your example works against you. If Cade beating Nihl deserved him a temporary demotion then it's pretty obvious combative prowess is the most important aspect of being a Hand.

Not really since Nihl didn't become less skilled or powerful? Nihl failed his master which meant his demotion yet there is no indication he's prowess as a warrior was suddenly lessened.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
I imagine that Wredd is above a Sub-Padawan faqq tbh.
Nah, but I don't see Maul >>>>>> above Wredd

And neither is Vong Krayt, in all honesty. We know Wyyrlok is comparable enough to him(what with contending with a far greater Krayt well enough), and Nihl and Talon are at least close enough to Wyyrlok not to get stomped.

Basically, Wredd won't be one-shot fodder for Vong Krayt.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
IIRC, it was noted in BoS that they were rivals.
Nothing implies a parity in power, tho.

I don't recall that. I just recall them having the same title, to which you can just refer to my initial post.

All of this is an irrelevant discussion brought on a pelican-fearing idiot.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Not really since Nihl didn't become less skilled or powerful? Nihl failed his master which meant his demotion yet there is no indication he's prowess as a warrior was suddenly lessened.

Obviously not, what the hell? But he was demoted by the merit of his combat efficency, was he not? And then Krayt promoted the next best warrior in his place. Why would he pick someone far less powerful than Nihl, when he demoted Nihl for not being powerful enough?

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Obviously not, what the hell? But he was demoted by the merit of his combat efficency, was he not? And then Krayt promoted the next best warrior in his place. Why would he pick someone far less powerful than Nihl, when he demoted Nihl for not being powerful enough?

He was demoted because he failed to defeat Cade, the next Hand wouldn't do any better to be honest while at the same time Nihl didn't get any less skilled or powerful.



You contradict yourself now, Nihl was apparently the best before fighting Cade (better as his replacement) yet suddenly is less powerful after he loses? Since when do duels have a negative effect on your prowess as a fighter?

Originally posted by MythLord
And neither is Vong Krayt, in all honesty. We know Wyyrlok is comparable enough to him(what with contending with a far greater Krayt well enough), and Nihl and Talon are at least close enough to Wyyrlok not to get stomped.

Basically, Wredd won't be one-shot fodder for Vong Krayt.

Wut? Why do you think that Wyyrlok won't ragdoll Nihl? (IIRC, Vong Krayt already ragdolled him btw) That argument is flawed. That's like saying: "Tyranus can't ragdoll Maul, and Maul can't ragdoll Kenobi, so Tyranus can't ragdoll Kenobi".


IIRC, Sorzus said, that she would made talismans for them, so that they can clash with each other all the time.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
He was demoted because he failed to defeat Cade, the next Hand wouldn't do any better to be honest while at the same time Nihl didn't get any less skilled or powerful.

Nihl failed so Krayt tried someone else, it's not a difficult concept to grasp.

And I never said Nihl became less skilled and powerful because he was demoted, why the f-uck you keep bringing this up?

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
You contradict yourself now, Nihl was apparently the best before fighting Cade (better as his replacement) yet suddenly is less powerful after he loses? Since when do duels have a negative effect on your prowess as a fighter?

I never said this either...

Wait...so Zoltan and I are on the same side in this discussion?

https://media1.giphy.com/media/XPc3aGJeDmu5i/200.gif#0

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Nihl failed so Krayt tried someone else, it's not a difficult concept to grasp.

And I never said Nihl became less skilled and powerful because he was demoted, why the f-uck you keep bringing this up?
I never said this either...

It's not that difficult to understand Zoltan, Nihl was demoted by Krayt and you say that the position of Hand means he's the strongest (or amongst the strongest) yet Nihl didn't become any less skilled or powerful so if he was amongst the strongest before fighting Cade, he's obviously still going to be the strongest after fighting him. However he was still replaced because he failed his master, not because he isn't strong enough.

Nihl and Talon failed, because they weren't powerful enough tho. And their case was a special one. They were still alive, and they were only demoted temporarily. So obviously Stryfe didn't magically become better than them, because he was promoted. The Hand is the most powerful, because the previous Hand is usually dead by then. It wasn't the case this time, but the Hands are still the most powerful.

But if you have a solid case why would Krayt not pick the most powerful sith as his Hand I'm all ears. But right now you are just nitpicking because you don't want to believe it.

After he demoted Talon and Nihl, he picked the next powerful one. That still means Stryfe > Wredd.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Wut? Why do you think that Wyyrlok won't ragdoll Nihl? (IIRC, Vong Krayt already ragdolled him btw) That argument is flawed. That's like saying: "Tyranus can't ragdoll Maul, and Maul can't ragdoll Kenobi, so Tyranus can't ragdoll Kenobi".

Reborn Krayt ragdolled Nihl when Nihl had his guard down and wasn't properly defending himself.
Wyyrlok doesn't strike me so vastly ahead of Nihl, especially when Nihl is meant to be Krayt's second in-command bar Wyyrlok himself, and he was made leader of the Order after Krayt's and Wyyrlok's death.

It strikes me like Nihl shouldn't be getting gigastomped or one-shotted by Wyyrlok.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
IIRC, Sorzus said, that she would made talismans for them, so that they can clash with each other all the time.

She said she'll make two amulets so Muur and Dreypa can be at odds with each other, but that hardly indicates parity.

Originally posted by MythLord
Reborn Krayt ragdolled Nihl when Nihl had his guard down and wasn't properly defending himself.
Wyyrlok doesn't strike me so vastly ahead of Nihl, especially when Nihl is meant to be Krayt's second in-command bar Wyyrlok himself, and he was made leader of the Order after Krayt's and Wyyrlok's death.

It strikes me like Nihl shouldn't be getting gigastomped or one-shotted by Wyyrlok.

After Krayt's and Wyyrlok's death. But fair enough.


I never said otherwise.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Nihl and Talon failed, because they weren't powerful enough tho. And their case was a special one. They were still alive, and they were only demoted temporarily. So obviously Stryfe didn't magically become better than them, because he was promoted. The Hand is the most powerful, because the previous Hand is usually dead by then. It wasn't the case this time, but the Hands are still the most powerful.

But if you have a solid case why would Krayt not pick the most powerful sith as his Hand I'm all ears. But right now you are just nitpicking because you don't want to believe it.

So we have an example when the most powerful Sith isn't a Hand (Nihl and Talon) yet the Hands are the most powerful? Yeah that's a really good thinking process.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/07/e1/39/07e139c56dec4e7d5159c242ef71afb3.gif

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
So we have an example when the most powerful Sith isn't a Hand (Nihl and Talon) yet the Hands are the most powerful? Yeah that's a really good thinking process.
He promoted the next powerful Sith to a hand- that doesn't puts Stryfe > Nihl or Talon, but > all Sith, bar these two, Saraai, Wyyrlok and Krayt.

Leave it Urs, he's being obtuse deliberately.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
He promoted the next powerful Sith to a hand- that doesn't puts Stryfe > Nihl or Talon, but > all Sith, bar these two, Saraai, Wyyrlok and Krayt.

How do you know that? We have an example of a Hand that isn't more powerful then those beneath him yet the fact that Hands > rest of the Sith still applies? Interesting.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/07/e1/39/07e139c56dec4e7d5159c242ef71afb3.gif

I'll take that as a "I can't answer so I put out a stupid GIF".

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
How do you know that? We have an example of a Hand that isn't more powerful then those beneath him yet the fact that Hands > rest of the Sith still applies? Interesting.
facepalm
1. Krayt's hand dies
2. Nihl becomes his new hand, as he is the strongest Sith in the Empire, bar Krayt and Wyyrlok
3. Nihl and Talon fail
4. Krayt punishes them
->Your assumption: Krayt choses an random Sith to become his new hand
->My assumption: Krayt choses the next strongest Sith to become his hand.

Dunno which is more logical, tbh mmm

Originally posted by Ursumeles
facepalm
1. Krayt's hand dies
2. Nihl becomes his new hand, as he is the strongest Sith in the Empire, bar Krayt and Wyyrlok
3. Nihl and Talon fail
4. Krayt punishes them
->Your assumption: Krayt choses an random Sith to become his new hand
->My assumption: Krayt choses the next strongest Sith to become his hand.

Dunno which is more logical, tbh mmm

I don't assume he takes a random Sith as Hand, that's what you make of it. I'm just saying that a Hand isn't necessarely > then every other Sith since Stryfe became a hand despite the fact that Nihl was more powerful.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
I don't assume he takes a random Sith as Hand, that's what you make of it. I'm just saying that a Hand isn't necessarely > then every other Sith since Stryfe became a hand despite the fact that Nihl was more powerful.
Are you kidding me?
He wanted to punish Nihl, and so became Stryfe the next hand.
That doesn't mean Stryfe > Nihl, but Stryfe > all One Sith, bar Nihl, Talon, Wyyrlok, Krayt and Saarai.

Krayt only punished Nihl which was pretty unfair.

Talon got bitched pretty much instantly and got stabbed and incapacitated, and Krayt didn't punish her.

Nihl actually put up a fight against Cade, all the while Krayt was encouraging Cade and actively wanting him to win, and when Cade cut off Nihl's arm, Krayt had Nihl's arm destroyed and replaced with an alien one and demoted Nihl.

Krayt was a ****ing dick to Nihl lmfao

He was, lol.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
I'll take that as a "I can't answer so I put out a stupid GIF".

You can take it however you want. And I'll take it that you are so f-ucking retarded or biased that you can't comprehend what the actual f-uck happened with Nihl's demotion.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Are you kidding me?
He wanted to punish Nihl, and so became Stryfe the next hand.
That doesn't mean Stryfe > Nihl, but Stryfe > all One Sith, bar Nihl, Talon, Wyyrlok, Krayt and Saarai.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by DarthDuelist9
Not to mention a sick Krayt...

That Muur had just healed.

Wow. Just caught up with the thread. Never thought I'd feel sympathy for Zoltan.

Originally posted by MythLord
According to Publisher Summaries, which granted you legitimately believe. Anyways, Muur's superiority over Vong Krayt is a legit thing, but to the point of domination(like some would have you believe) is just ridiculous.

It's not a publisher summary, it's an Insider article.

And it's not domination, but it's enough for a decently one-sided fight. Remember that Maladi's also attacking Muur (off-panel).