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no bfr allowed who wins.

by the way, this feat is cool for namor. any special context behind it?

Gladiator via Heat Vision. Hyperion did it recently.

Hyperion is stronger than Gladiator. Was that beam heat vision specifically?

we also cant tell who has the stronger heat vision. maybe hype has a stronger heat vision than gladiator? also maybe namor will avoid the heat vision and upper cut gladiator? namor has very good striking feats. one shotting hulk. the feat i posted where he punch thanos and hurts him. he packs some nice punches.

Gladiator is a pretty bad match up for Namor IMO for the same reasons Superman is. Gladiator is stronger, much much faster, heat vision etc. Even if the fight is underwater it probably won't make a difference in the end - the lack of air and the water pressure don't mean a lot to a guy with flight, super-speed, can fly in the vacuum of space and through gas giants and stars.

Don't get me wrong, Subby would put up a decent fight physically, and the gap between Superman-types and the next tiers seems less these days (and Glads does tend to job nowadays), but Gladiator really should win every time barring some PIS/CIS situation.

Originally posted by basilisk
Gladiator is a pretty bad match up for Namor IMO for the same reasons Superman is. Gladiator is stronger, much much faster, heat vision etc. Even if the fight is underwater it probably won't make a difference in the end - the lack of air and the water pressure don't mean a lot to a guy with flight, super-speed, can fly in the vacuum of space and through gas giants and stars.

Don't get me wrong, Subby would put up a decent fight physically, and the gap between Superman-types and the next tiers seems less these days (and Glads does tend to job nowadays), but Gladiator really should win every time barring some PIS/CIS situation.

I agree with this.

Originally posted by basilisk
Gladiator is a pretty bad match up for Namor IMO for the same reasons Superman is. Gladiator is stronger, much much faster, heat vision etc. Even if the fight is underwater it probably won't make a difference in the end - the lack of air and the water pressure don't mean a lot to a guy with flight, super-speed, can fly in the vacuum of space and through gas giants and stars.

Don't get me wrong, Subby would put up a decent fight physically, and the gap between Superman-types and the next tiers seems less these days (and Glads does tend to job nowadays), but Gladiator really should win every time barring some PIS/CIS situation.

Agree with the agreement. The Namor love here has always been a little confusing to me. As basilisk mentions, the gap between his tier and various cosmics isn't what it once was, and Namor isn't the only evidence of this. But the gap is still fairly clear, imo. Most threads I see with Namor tend to be a reaction to this, and place him against those that he'll put up a fight against, but who are obviously still out of his weight class.

that sig and avvy....

come when namor doesn't lose to thing underwater

Originally posted by apex_pretador
come when namor doesn't lose to thing underwater
That's like talking when Gladiator doesn't loses to Gambit.

Both are outliers.

Originally posted by apex_pretador
come when namor doesn't lose to thing underwater

or gladiator to canonball? everybody got lower showings. also ben didnt really beat namor he only trapped him with those giant fish teeth

Originally posted by leonidas
that sig and avvy....



fdog

Originally posted by Digi


fdog



Originally posted by abhilegend
That's like talking when Gladiator doesn't loses to Gambit.

Both are outliers.

not sure it's THAT big an outlier. ben has always given namor fits. underwater SHOULD be different, but ben/namor has, historically, been pretty close.

Originally posted by Dareangel
or gladiator to canonball? everybody got lower showings. also ben didnt really beat namor he only trapped him with those giant fish teeth

I don't think you read the Cannonball fight. Look at it again and you'll see something.

Originally posted by carver9
I don't think you read the Cannonball fight. Look at it again and you'll see something.

canonball delivering gladiator a beating. something i missed?

Originally posted by Digi


fdog

This is the best smiley on KMC bar none.

Originally posted by Dareangel
canonball delivering gladiator a beating. something i missed?

Read the comic. How about this, post the beating you are talking about.

thing beating namor isn't an outlier.
Thor one shotted namor in rain. Without his hammer.

Namor can beat even Hulk underwater. While Thing might give Namor some trouble on land he shouldn't have any chance whatsoever in Namor's element. Their AvX "fight" was total PIS: Namor just had the misfortune to stand in the ranks of the X-Men in a story-line hilariously biased against them.

Or simply thing isn't that much outclassed even underwater that namor is unbeatable.
If anything, namor KO ing hulk sounds heavy outlier.

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo227/wilcat92/Namora/NamorAnn1-50NastyNat.jpg~original

Originally posted by apex_pretador
Or simply thing isn't that much outclassed even underwater that namor is unbeatable.
If anything, namor KO ing hulk sounds heavy outlier.

pretty much. herc has stalemated namor on land and been shown to be stronger than he is underwater, performing a feat namor couldn't. there are times when namor has been shown to be much stronger underwater than he is on land, and other times it's close. he really isn't much stronger at all if he's been out of water for only a short time. ben has fought him probably a dozen times and like i said, historically it's always been pretty close. ben fought him underwater once and it was more namor's speed and ability to maneuver than his strength that was a difference in that fight.

and his beating the hulk gets so overblown. that was a very old hulk, before his powerset was as defined as it would later become. thor has ko'd namor with a single hit in the rain. ironman, in one of his first armors, matched namor back in the day. more recently you've had his battles against cage, and black panther to further show his, at times, inconsistent level.

with all that, do i think ben should have beat him underwater? no. but am i wtf stunned, shocked and ready to scream pis?? no, not at all. look back honestly at the history of the characters and i don't think ben beating him is all that turrible. /shrug

Just want to throw out there that Namor was weaned when Thor koed him in the rain. Please continue.

Namor fought thor to stalemate underwater. Fought herc and avengers underwater. Koed hulk/fought hulk and stalemated abom underwater. Namor has fought the entire F4 and KOed an amped thing outside of water. Lets not only use low showings to estimate a characters power, mkay? You guys a super namor cynics apparently..

Namor still got up pretty quickly in that rain fight, iirc.

Abhi was even trying to bust the whole one-hit-ko myth and was doing pretty good. Never trust thor to get a single thing done.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Namor still got up pretty quickly in that rain fight, iirc.

Abhi was even trying to bust the whole one-hit-ko myth and was doing pretty good. Never trust thor to get a single thing done.

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/Invaders33a.jpg

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/Invaders33b.jpg

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/clokeagne_supernova/Namor%20Respect/Namor%20titles/Battles/Invaders33c.jpg

The bottom scan is what happened right after Thor hit. Thor even mentions Namor strength increasing and Namor himself tells us he was weakened.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Namor fought thor to stalemate underwater. Fought herc and avengers underwater. Koed hulk/fought hulk and stalemated abom underwater. Namor has fought the entire F4 and KOed an amped thing outside of water. Lets not only use low showings to estimate a characters power, mkay? You guys a super namor cynics apparently..

not a cynic at all. but looking at only his high feats is as bad as focusing only on his low ones. which i don't think i have. fact is, thor has made namor look pretty silly on a couple occasions (do i even need to bring up the cape toss??). namor has done pretty well a couple times. how is one low balling and the other NOT high balling, exactly...? namor has never ko'd thor. fighting to stalemates is a dime-a-dozen feat. think about guys in very different tiers who have stalemated in fights. how many times has daredevil stalemated/looked BETTER than spiderman for example? there are literally countless examples. stalemating someone is almost meaningless.

he beat abomination, which is a good win, but the fact remains that historically namor and ben have had classic marvel battles. ben has a crazy record so hardly shameful in my eyes. wonderman has ko'd namor. does that mean that simon>namor? not necessarily, but it happened, and i don't think bringing it up is low balling. it simply shows that namor's strength has been portrayed a bit inconsistently, even at times, underwater. one of his more impressive showings was against stark not too long ago. really he has showings all over the place. good showings against black bolt for example, and less than great showings. looking at only one side is as bad as accusing others of only looking at the other side.

he's strong. out of water i think he and ben are really close, and historically that has been born out. again, in water, he should win, but i've seen enough of namor to know that ben beating him underwater isn't the appalling loss some do. /shrug

as for the thread--he has almost no chance in this fight. in straight h2h he could last for a while but he is fighting out of his weight class here.

Originally posted by carver9
The bottom scan is what happened right after Thor hit. Thor even mentions Namor strength increasing and Namor himself tells us he was weakened.

Thanks, carv

Yeah, the feat is far less impressive than thorbags would like us to think.

lol hope you don't think i was making that feat out to be something it wasn't. i've always found the cape toss to be far worse than that rain shot....

namor is tough to gauge at times because he does have some good feats but lots of other mitigating feats as well. at his best he'd give glads a good work out in straight h2h. on average, glads handles him similar to how he handled wonderman in h2h. least imo.

If namor hits Glads with the punch he landed on Thanos, Kallark is at least ko'd.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
If namor hits Glads with the punch he landed on Thanos, Kallark is at least ko'd. No he wouldn't be koed. That was a low showing for Thanos. On average Namor shouldn't do much to Thanos.

Gladiator wins.

Originally posted by apex_pretador
thing beating namor isn't an outlier.
Thor one shotted namor in rain. Without his hammer.
Namor was weakened there.

Namor has oneshotted Ben outside water.

Originally posted by krisblaze
This is the best smiley on KMC bar none.

Best post in this thread. Agreed entirely.

dgrin

Originally posted by h1a8
No he wouldn't be koed. That was a low showing for Thanos. On average Namor shouldn't do much to Thanos. as if you know what you're talking about.

Originally posted by carver9
Read the comic. How about this, post the beating you are talking about.

i still see legit beating

or this

He was fine after that, though.

no problem, i never said canonball beat him. however the way canonball sent him crushing with that blow and overall delivering some kind of beating, is already a bad showing for the level gladiator is suppose to be on.

Cannonball is invulnerable though...

Unlike the fight with Gladiator Cannon would have a legit shot at beating Namor.

Originally posted by Dareangel
no problem, i never said canonball beat him. however the way canonball sent him crushing with that blow and overall delivering some kind of beating, is already a bad showing for the level gladiator is suppose to be on.

Why?

It's just a showing of how powerful and versatile Guthrie is. Not much you can do when your opponent is invulnerable and can use your own strength against you.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Cannonball is invulnerable though...

Unlike the fight with Gladiator Cannon would have a legit shot at beating Namor.

canonball is only invulnerable while flying. also it doesnt give his punches any special strength while he is still in the air and doesnt even have his flight momentum.

He is invulnerable as long as his blast shield is on.

Originally posted by Dareangel
also it doesnt give his punches any special strength

Wow, carver was right. You didn't read the comic.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Why?

It's just a showing of how powerful and versatile Guthrie is. Not much you can do when your opponent is invulnerable and can use your own strength against you.

who is invulnerable? if you are talking about canonball then again he is that way while flying forward. he was floating while he delivered that blow that send gladiator crushing. at this point he had no extra boost. also being invulnerable doesnt boost your hits. aside of that canonball once charged juggernaut who simply sent him flying with an elbow.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He is invulnerable as long as his blast shield is on.



Wow, carver was right. You didn't read the comic.

canoball has powers while he is flying. when he is just floating in the air or not flying forward its another story. also, he charged juggernaut once and juggs simply sent him flying backwards with an elbow. no matter how you try to look at it, canonball delivering a beating to gladiator is a low showing for someone who is suppose to be a herald.

Thor wins.

Originally posted by Dareangel
canoball has powers while he is flying. when he is just floating in the air or not flying forward its another story. also, he charged juggernaut once and juggs simply sent him flying backwards with an elbow. no matter how you try to look at it, canonball delivering a beating to gladiator is a low showing for someone who is suppose to be a herald.

Sam Guthrie became an External quite some time ago. This was the Cannonball that fought Gladiator. He'd have done the same to Captain Marvel, and Black Adam in that case. Not sure if it has been subject to retcon, but I believe that he had become or that it was hinted upon that he had become immortal. He was also able to see the different ways in which he could use his power at the time of the Gladiator showing.

I don't really think that it was a poor showing at all for Gladiator. Guthrie like Speedball, are crazy powerful when they focus their power.

Gladiator should beat Namor over a period of time, even if he didn't eye beam him. It doesn't add up one bit. Namor and the Thing have always been physical peers on land (at least for 30 minutes). Gladiator took Ben apart in seconds. Namor may last longer due to increased speed. He should lose 7/10. What I find a bit messed up, is when people expect these characters to remain unaffected by attacks. I have seen Superman Wonder Woman, Hulk, Thor, the list goes on. Superman in particular was stunned by Lois' father's military armaments. Yeah tanks. They all say Owww, Argh, are knocked down, punched away, whatever...

Originally posted by Dareangel
canonball is only invulnerable while flying. also it doesnt give his punches any special strength while he is still in the air and doesnt even have his flight momentum.

??? That is his powerset

Originally posted by leonidas
pretty much. herc has stalemated namor on land and been shown to be stronger than he is underwater, performing a feat namor couldn't. there are times when namor has been shown to be much stronger underwater than he is on land, and other times it's close. he really isn't much stronger at all if he's been out of water for only a short time. ben has fought him probably a dozen times and like i said, historically it's always been pretty close. ben fought him underwater once and it was more namor's speed and ability to maneuver than his strength that was a difference in that fight.

and his beating the hulk gets so overblown. that was a very old hulk, before his powerset was as defined as it would later become. thor has ko'd namor with a single hit in the rain. ironman, in one of his first armors, matched namor back in the day. more recently you've had his battles against cage, and black panther to further show his, at times, inconsistent level.

with all that, do i think ben should have beat him underwater? no. but am i wtf stunned, shocked and ready to scream pis?? no, not at all. look back honestly at the history of the characters and i don't think ben beating him is all that turrible. /shrug
Agreed

Gladiator stomps.
Stronger, faster, more durable,and maybe smarter
Edit: I think Kallark is also more skilled, and not to mention his eye beams.

Originally posted by Stoic
Sam Guthrie became an External quite some time ago. This was the Cannonball that fought Gladiator. He'd have done the same to Captain Marvel, and Black Adam in that case. Not sure if it has been subject to retcon, but I believe that he had become or that it was hinted upon that he had become immortal. He was also able to see the different ways in which he could use his power at the time of the Gladiator showing.



so canonball has some kind of amp during that fight? what was the amp? still if it only increased his powers then they are suppose to be on a higher scale but still they suppose to work the same no? i mean while he is flying forward. or did he get some upgrade that give him external strength and abilities while not charging forward?

Over the years Cannonballs powers got fleshed out and expanded on more and more.He could do a lot a shit he could not back in the day pretty good for a guy who had problem making turns when flying.

Originally posted by Dareangel
so canonball has some kind of amp during that fight? what was the amp? still if it only increased his powers then they are suppose to be on a higher scale but still they suppose to work the same no? i mean while he is flying forward. or did he get some upgrade that give him external strength and abilities while not charging forward?
Cannonball absorbed the kinetic energy from Glad's own punch and used it against him.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Cannonball is invulnerable though...

Unlike the fight with Gladiator Cannon would have a legit shot at beating Namor.
Even speedball has koed Cannonball in a collision. That was just a shitty showing for Gladiator.

Originally posted by SuperiorTech
Over the years Cannonballs powers got fleshed out and expanded on more and more.He could do a lot a shit he could not back in the day pretty good for a guy who had problem making turns when flying.
That's like his only good showing in forever. On his average, Namor would destroy Guthrie.

Cannonball is invulnerable there and able to redirect kinetic energy.

What else do you expect when Gladiator punches him?

If it were Superman then he would've been knocked the **** out.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Cannonball is invulnerable there and able to redirect kinetic energy.

What else do you expect when Gladiator punches him?

If it were Superman then he would've been knocked the **** out.
Overload his kinetic field.
Just like Namor beat down Shaw who has a lot better kinetic energy absorption feats.

He is invulnerable because he can redirect kinetic energy. Don't act like he is Superman or something.

Superman would just laugh away both Gladiator and Cannonball.

Superman would get ragdolled so hard.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Superman would get ragdolled so hard.
You spelled Thor wrong.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's like his only good showing in forever. On his average, Namor would destroy Guthrie.


I don't give a shit about Cannonball and even less about Glads I am simply stating that he can do lot more than just fly into people.

I know.

Originally posted by leonidas
not a cynic at all. but looking at only his high feats is as bad as focusing only on his low ones. which i don't think i have. fact is, thor has made namor look pretty silly on a couple occasions (do i even need to bring up the cape toss??). namor has done pretty well a couple times. how is one low balling and the other NOT high balling, exactly...? namor has never ko'd thor. fighting to stalemates is a dime-a-dozen feat. think about guys in very different tiers who have stalemated in fights. how many times has daredevil stalemated/looked BETTER than spiderman for example? there are literally countless examples. stalemating someone is almost meaningless.

he beat abomination, which is a good win, but the fact remains that historically namor and ben have had classic marvel battles. ben has a crazy record so hardly shameful in my eyes. wonderman has ko'd namor. does that mean that simon>namor? not necessarily, but it happened, and i don't think bringing it up is low balling. it simply shows that namor's strength has been portrayed a bit inconsistently, even at times, underwater. one of his more impressive showings was against stark not too long ago. really he has showings all over the place. good showings against black bolt for example, and less than great showings. looking at only one side is as bad as accusing others of only looking at the other side.

he's strong. out of water i think he and ben are really close, and historically that has been born out. again, in water, he should win, but i've seen enough of namor to know that ben beating him underwater isn't the appalling loss some do. /shrug

as for the thread--he has almost no chance in this fight. in straight h2h he could last for a while but he is fighting out of his weight class here.



What are these low end feats That he has in spades

From what I know. He has a fantastic battle record against the elite tier in or out if water

Simon knocked him out with a cheap shot
In a straight fight a younger namor beat him and ares together

i already mentioned a few of them if you actually read my postS. but, since i don't want to get accused of lowballing (you'll also noticed i mentioned some of his better feats) how about if you go ahead and mention some new high feats that have NOT been brought up since you seem to believe he has THEM in spades given that his record is so fantastic in and out of water. i can't wait.