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Who believes in the feat?

Not sure, I'm actually leaning towards no.

Heretics, the lot of you. uhuh

Why don't you address Temp's argument, then, Ell?

To be fair, he discussed it with me privately afterwards.

Isn't his argument over how a sentence is phrased and then he backs the really illogical idea that Palpatine scoured a hole in the planet and dumped the ship in there rather then just having his technicians do it when then the logical stance is that Palpatine simply wiped the minds of the people who knew about the ship? :/

My argument is that an official source states he buried it and the feat is quite appropriate for a malignantly narcissistic megalomaniac to do something that grandiose.

People are trying so hard to give Palps more feats to support he theory that he's the most powerful ever. Problem is, he doesn't need more feats for that supposition to be true, and certainly not ones where mental gymnastics and guessing needs to be done for it to be true. The simple reality is this, we have a direct quote saying the Engineers buried it, yet somehow people are willing to take a illogical leap that the above statement isn't true, and a more ambiguous one is? Sorry, I can't get behind that line of thinking.

You understand that buried has many connotations, right?

Like if someone buries someone in a debate they didn't literally dig a hole and dump the body of their opponent into it.

:/

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
The simple reality is this, we have a direct quote saying the Engineers buried it

What?! Why is this even being entertained?

I find it a bit far fetched Sidious buried it with TK, lal.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
You understand that buried has many connotations, right?

Like if someone buries someone in a debate they didn't literally dig a hole and dump the body of their opponent into it.

:/

Ah, I see. Tread lightly, for below there are spoilers:

the ship was literally buried.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
YWhat?! Why is this even being entertained?

It's apparently from an in universe source.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
My argument is that an official source states he buried it and the feat is quite appropriate for a malignantly narcissistic megalomaniac to do something that grandiose.

yet we have an official source stating his engineers accomplished the feat. The statement you're relying on is rather ambiguous and could be taken many different ways, including, that the engineers did indeed do it and he just hide it from everybody. That isn't a contradiction imo. The more logical view to take imo, is the one that is spelled out very clearly... The engineers did.

The quote which states the engineers buried it came out earlier than the one which states Palpatine buried it. It's a retcon.

There is NO Recton... The later quote could still fit nicely and easily with the earlier one. It didn't recton anything. It was the most clearly view of what happened. You keep acting like the later quote was a recton, and it was nothing of the sort. You're desperately trying so hard to prove Sids is the most powerful, you dismiss what is directly in your face. You're coming from a position of bias, and as we know, that is not a sound position to be coming from. The simple reality is this, we have a direct quote saying it was engineers... you'd like to throw that out for a more ambiguous quote... Don't buy it.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Ah, I see. Tread lightly, for below there are spoilers:

the ship was literally buried.



It's apparently from an in universe source.

Cool. Please show me where it's stated the quote is meant to be taken literally.

Yes, and it's an alternative that actually makes sense.

Originally posted by Azronger
The quote which states the engineers buried it came out earlier than the one which states Palpatine buried it. It's a retcon.

Or the quote doesn't literally mean he buried it. :/

I mean, I don't get what's so hard about this. The engineers buried the ship beneath the surface. Sidious burying it with his darkside power is referencing the telepathy he used to wipe everybody's memory of it. It's not that difficult of a concept.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Cool. Please show me where it's stated the quote is meant to be taken literally.

Yes, and it's an alternative that actually makes sense.

Did you not read the spoiler?

You've actually been unable to demonstrate how this doesn't make sense lol.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I mean, I don't get what's so hard about this. The engineers buried the ship beneath the surface. Sidious burying it with his darkside power is referencing the telepathy he used to wipe everybody's memory of it. It's not that difficult of a concept.

Someone doesn't know the definition of "bury".

Why would Sidious bury the ship himself when he has an entire Engineer Corps to do it for him? Like you understand that for the ship to have been buried beneath the planet and for the surface of that area to have retained its structural integrity they would have needed to reinforce the site it was buried in with various structural supports in case the ship were to cave in on itself. Either under the weight of the ground above it or simply because after years its own structural integrity had failed. The only other option would be to fill the entirety of the ship beforehand with some sufficiently dense material. It's not as simple as "Heu. Heu. I make big hole. I put ship in hole. I put dirt back in hole. Heu. Heu." Then there's also the issue of smoothing out the area where the ship was buried and rebuilding the area above it given the entirety of Coruscant's surface is occupied by buildings in one form or another. Granted Sidious could have sealed the spot off and claimed it as private property for the Empire but then why would he go to the effort of erasing everybody's memory of the thing only to leave a suspicious bare patch on the surface that people will speculate about?

You're making this more complicated then it needs to be.

Originally posted by Azronger
Someone doesn't know the definition of "bury".

Someone doesn't understand the concept of a single word having multiple connotations.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Why would Sidious bury the ship himself when he has an entire Engineer Corps to do it for him? Like you understand that for the ship to have been buried beneath the planet and for the surface of that area to have retained its structural integrity they would have needed to reinforce the site with various structural supports or fill the ship. It's not as simply as "Heu. Heu. I make big hole. I put ship in hole. I put dirt back in hole. Heu. Heu."

None of this proves he didn't do it, lol.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Someone doesn't understand the concept of a single word having multiple connotations.

Link me to a dictionary which states one of the definitions of "bury" is erasing the memory of someone.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
You understand that buried has many connotations, right?

Like if someone buries someone in a debate they didn't literally dig a hole and dump the body of their opponent into it.

:/That was a pretty dumb thing to say Syn.

Originally posted by Azronger
None of this proves he didn't do it, lol.

It proves that he would have had to lift in structural supports and generally accomplish long and arduos feats of engineering with his TK when he has an entire Engineer Corps to do this sh!t for him. It makes absolutely no sense that he would do it himself. If he did just up and bury the ship in a hole he dug with TK he risks the area collapsing in on itself. Do you really think the genius planner that is Palpatine is going to risk something like that happening simply because he wanted to play with his powers?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
That was a pretty dumb thing to say Syn.

Why? I'm pointing out that word doesn't always take the form of its literal definition.

Originally posted by Azronger
Link me to a dictionary which states one of the definitions of "bury" is erasing the memory of someone.

Burying someone in a debate = Beating somebody handily in a debate.

Burying a secret = Making sure a secret is kept.

This isn't that hard.

And had the Fact File said, "in a demonstration of his dark side powers, Palpatine buried the secret of the Lusankya," you'd have a point.

But maybe you're right. Maybe it really means he beat the Lusankya in a debate. mmm

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Why? I'm pointing out that word doesn't always take the form of its literal definition. Bury within the contexts of putting an object underground has one clear connotation you complete returd. Originally posted by The_Tempest
And had the Fact File said, "in a demonstration of his dark side powers, Palpatine buried the secret of the Lusankya," you'd have a point.

But maybe you're right. Maybe it really means he beat the Lusankya in a debate. mmm

Sidious TK's the Lusankya up Valkorion's bunghole.

Heh he.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Bury within the contexts of putting an object underground has one clear connotation you complete returd.

Except it's not referring specifically to the ship being put beneath the ground but the matter of the ship in its entirety which would be keeping the secret of its existence.

Except it is.

He obviously didn't. Another source states the Imperial Engineers did the actual physical burying and a further source clarifies that Palpatine merely used his power to fog the minds of those watching.

Sadly, both sources are told from subjective perspectives.

Neph's assessment on the source that says Imperial engineers buried the Lusankya, when that same source said Sedriss and Ood Bnar killed each other in combat:

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ziggy proved it wasn't an objective source, it was written by a fallible scholar.

This discussion is over.

lmao

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
It proves that he would have had to lift in structural supports and generally accomplish long and arduos feats of engineering with his TK when he has an entire Engineer Corps to do this sh!t for him. It makes absolutely no sense that he would do it himself.

Welcome to Star Wars, where most things don't make sense, yet still happen, and have been happening since 1977.



So based on what would the ship itself not be able to hold the weight of a little earth on top of it?



Yeah, he probably would. That guy became so carefree after the Empire's formation.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Except it is.

Except it's not.

Originally posted by Azronger
Welcome to Star Wars, where most things don't make sense, yet still happen, and have been happening since 1977.



So based on what would the ship itself not be able to hold the weight of a little earth on top of it?



Yeah, he probably would. That guy became so carefree after the Empire's formation.

Except as debaters we don't just hand wave things and assume an illogical action was taken. We assume the characters acted IN CHARACTER and for Palpatine that wouldn't be carrying out a long and arduous process with TK because he felt like he wanted to exercise his power.

A little dirt? The length and width of the ship is enough that even a single foot of earth over it would weigh millions of tons. It might be able to handle that kind of a weigh on it for a time but after years it would collapse in on itself.

Carefree? He blockaded an entire planet simply because there was a powerful Force user on it.

I'm pretty sure I understand Palpatine better than you do lol.

If you want proof of Sidious's tendencies to arrogantly overperform instead of going for the efficient route, you need only look at his entire fight with Maul and Savage.

I'm pretty sure you don't if you think he either spent hours making sure the burial was structurally sound with his TK or that he would risk its discovery in the future by doing a shoddy job and just haphazardly shoving it into a giant trench.

Who could he have depended on to take them out for certain? He only had Grievous and Dooku at his disposal by this point and risking either to take Maul and Savage out of the equation wouldn't have been smart. This is not even taking into account that Maul had planetary resources at his disposal at this time. He could have used the CIS or Republic to destroy him but that risks the possibility of Maul escaping and becoming a threat later. What he did was the most logical action in that instance.

No clue why we're acting like this is beyond Palpatine's capabilities anyway.

It's not. He should completely be capable of accomplishing this. Which is why I don't get the need to pretend he actually did this when it's made clear he didn't.

It's not, but that doesn't mean he did it.

He disguised the Destroyer as a giant shield generator and was then capable of compelling witnesses to forget. Precautions were taken. He's grandiose, yes, not an idiot.

And when he got there, rather than just snap their necks and call it a day, he made a game out of it. He's grandiose. 👍

Originally posted by The_Tempest
He disguised the Destroyer as a giant shield generator and was then capable of compelling witnesses to forget. Precautions were taken. He's grandiose, yes, not an idiot.

And when he got there, rather than just snap their necks and call it a day, he made a game out of it. He's grandiose. 👍

Why would he do that when he has engineers to do it for him? What possible reason would Palpatine have to waste hours of his time doing this for when his engineers could do a far better job anyways?

He was breaking Maul's will which was the entire point. He let Maul go in SoD for that reason. Granted, I have no idea why. Maybe he forsaw something that would make Maul useful to him in the future. He did mention that he had plans for him at the end of the episode after Maul's defeat.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No clue why we're acting like this is beyond Palpatine's capabilities anyway.

It is, utterly.

It's really not Neph.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It is, utterly.

We're talking about Palpatine, not Valkorion.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
It's really not Neph.

He hasn't done anything close to this, lol.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Why would he do that when he has engineers to do it for him? What possible reason would Palpatine have to waste hours of his time doing this for when his engineers could do a far better job anyways?

Because he's a grandiose malignant narcissist? Who has the means of taking care of the problem if it goes awry anyway?



And he could have snapped Savage's neck and dragged Maul back to the shuttle to use him against Talzin. Instead, he wanted to show off and indulge in unnecessary theatrics. Because... he's a grandiose malignant narcissist.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No clue why we're acting like this is beyond Palpatine's capabilities anyway.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He hasn't done anything close to this, lol. What Neph actually means is Valkorion hasn't.

In absolutely no way does the quote indicate TK was used. The requirements can be satisfied in a number of different ways. This should rightly be the end of the discussion.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
What Neph actually means is Valkorion hasn't.

Meh. Personally I'd argue that Nihilus' feats are better regardless of this ones validity.

True, Sidious being canonically superior to Nihilus only works in his favour here.

Respectfully, Neph, you've already dismissed the source that says Imperial engineers buried the ship on the grounds that it's from a fallible scholar.

Don't talk to me.

Y u gotta be so ruuuude?

thats probably the strongest case you've made so far

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Because he's a grandiose malignant narcissist? Who has the means of taking care of the problem if it goes awry anyway?



And he could have snapped Savage's neck and dragged Maul back to the shuttle to use him against Talzin. Instead, he wanted to show off and indulge in unnecessary theatrics. Because... he's a grandiose malignant narcissist.

Why does being a grandiose malignant narcissist have anything to do with Palpatine wasting his time manually doing what his lessers could be doing for him without any sort of risk or danger inherent in the process?

He did take Maul and keep him imprisoned because he planned to use Maul against Talzin. He was either in the process of forming such a plan or the events of SoD WERE his plans. It wouldn't make sense otherwise. The difference is that sending anybody else to have captured him would have hosted an inherent risk while doing so himself did not.

I love the back and forth with Neph and Temp. It amuses me.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Why does being a grandiose malignant narcissist have anything to do with Palpatine wasting his time manually doing what his lessers could be doing for him without any sort of risk or danger inherent in the process?

He did take Maul and keep him imprisoned because he planned to use Maul against Talzin. He was either in the process of forming such a plan or the events of SoD WERE his plans. It wouldn't make sense otherwise. The difference is that sending anybody else to have captured him would have hosted an inherent risk while doing so himself did not.

Because a grandiose malignant narcissist might be inclined to partake in grandiose actions?

You're dodging the point. I'm not disputing why he came there in the first place. I'm asking you why he behaved like an egomaniacal douche and engaged in a totally unnecessary and protracted fight when he could have just made it a quick affair.

The action itself isn't grandiose. It's time consuming and energy draining and there's nobody around to witness it who'll remember it unlike the other instance you mentioned where he left Maul alive.

Probably to prove a point to Maul. To give him some shred of hope before snatching it away making his fall all the harder for thinking he could have ever challenged him.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I love the back and forth with Neph and Temp. It amuses me.

I think Neph enjoys it the most though.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
The action itself isn't grandiose. It's time consuming and energy draining and there's nobody around to witness it who'll remember it unlike the other instance you mentioned where he left Maul alive.

It was absolutely grandiose lol. He would have TK'd a ten mile starship and then mindraped the thousands/millions of witnesses.

Perhaps Vader was there?
Even if not, Palpatine himself might have done it for amusement. This is the guy that, per the Clone Wars movie novelization, enjoys the fact that he's a Sith Lord and immensely enjoys the fact that no one around him knows.

No one else actually has to be present lol.



Because Maul obviously thought he could win the fight, right?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It was absolutely grandiose lol. He would have TK'd a ten mile starship and then mindraped the thousands/millions of witnesses.

Perhaps Vader was there?
Even if not, Palpatine himself might have done it for amusement. This is the guy that, per the Clone Wars movie novelization, enjoys the fact that he's a Sith Lord and immensely enjoys the fact that no one around him knows.

No one else actually has to be present lol.



Because Maul obviously thought he could win the fight, right?

Yes but he didn't get to show off. He's essentially accomplishing a task he already knows he's capable of. There's no audience to be in awe of his power.

Vader's there simply to watch his master accomplish an impressive feat and be impressed by it? Unlikely.

I doubt putting hours of work into tediously lowering beams and putting them in place is his idea of entertainment.

Except it's pointless if no one's present because a part of the reason Sidious carries out grandiose actions is for them to be seen and for his inferiors to be in awe of. Not to mention it doesn't serve to entertain himself because he's going to have to concentrate on actually carrying out passable engineering. If he really wanted to entertain himself with his powers why didn't he simply create a force storm on some secluded world? It'd be a hell of a lot simpler.

If he didn't think there was at least a chance or that he could stall him long enough for his guards to arrive why didn't he just tell Savage to run before following his own advice?

Originally posted by Nephthys
In absolutely no way does the quote indicate TK was used. The requirements can be satisfied in a number of different ways. This should rightly be the end of the discussion.

So no rebuttal to this? I know Nova didn't have one.

There is no rebuttal to it. They'll say "Ha. It's funny that you think the quote isn't literal." And then they'll putter off proud of themselves despite not having addressed the actual point.

Is someone going to break to Neph that an assertion is not an argument, or shall I?

Suggesting that it was TK is itself an assertion.

Why not just go ask whoever wrote the thing?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Suggesting that it was TK is itself an assertion. You really are clueless.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Why not just go ask whoever wrote the thing?
Who are you, Ant?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Who are you, Ant?

No that's you, but going back and forth on this and trying to figure it out clearly isn't working or reaching any kind of agreement.

I get the counter arguments but they don't satisfy the logical progression here. It's argued that it rectonned the early passage. That simply isn't true. Both passages could work. The second quote doesn't invalidate the first because they are wildly different. If they were, they may be a point here, but it doesn't imo. Both could work and fit nice enough together.

What's odd to me, is that we're taking one form of proof that is vastly more ambiguous, and saying that it's better proof than something that is made crystal clear. That is simply odd to me.

Lastly, if he wanted to show off his force powers to people could be in awe... then the logical progression there wouldn't be to mindrape the people for ever knowing you did something.. the same people you were supposedly trying to impress by doing it. That just makes no sense.

Wasn't Palpatine trying to pass off this whole 'weak, feeble and kind' old man look anyway to the galactic populace? So him showing off such power, kinda flies in the face of that.

I think the arguments from the people that think the feat is true is that he did it in front of Vader or perhaps Moffs or other subordinates as a display of power. The galactic populace wouldn't have witnessed it, as he mind wiped all of those who would have seen it on the planet.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Yes but he didn't get to show off. He's essentially accomplishing a task he already knows he's capable of. There's no audience to be in awe of his power.

...Who says he knew he was capable of such a feat before doing it?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Vader's there simply to watch his master accomplish an impressive feat and be impressed by it? Unlikely.

Why?
Because the Emperor is above such petty power plays? lol

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
I doubt putting hours of work into tediously lowering beams and putting them in place is his idea of entertainment.

It's about as exciting as navigating the minutiae of Republic bureaucracy and parliamentary procedure for 20 years. Tedious work is kinda Sheev's thing.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Except it's pointless if no one's present because a part of the reason Sidious carries out grandiose actions is for them to be seen and for his inferiors to be in awe of. Not to mention it doesn't serve to entertain himself because he's going to have to concentrate on actually carrying out passable engineering.



^ There is precedent of Palpatine enjoying pulling shit over on people. He doesn't require an audience or someone to be in on the joke. The text says his enjoyment derives from people not knowing about the deception in question.

TK'ing an object as massive and as powerful as a Super Star Destroyer and then compelling the population to forget the act and then entertaining himself with their ignorance and helplessness is something I could very easily see him doing.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
If he really wanted to entertain himself with his powers why didn't he simply create a force storm on some secluded world? It'd be a hell of a lot simpler.

I've no idea, nor do I need one.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
If he didn't think there was at least a chance or that he could stall him long enough for his guards to arrive why didn't he just tell Savage to run before following his own advice?

Because the opportunity to run like hell didn't present itself?

So, to recap: Palpatine is a malignant narcissist who has a penchant for self-aggrandizement and grandiosity. Burying a Super Star Destroyer and mindraping the witnesses is suitably grandiose. He may have done so in front of a small informed audience, Vader or the Inquisitor, or he might have done it in total privacy, but you've yet to prove that he requires an audience to do something grandiose and superfluous.

There's literally no objection you've offered that I haven't addressed lol.

I would add to that that Sidious also enjoys revelling in his own strength and power, and in that respect the idea that he would seek to test his limits is perfectly feasible.

Really I'm seeing increasingly fewer reasons regarding Sidious' ability to perform the feat or willingness to do so. Only whether or not this is what the statement is saying, or intended to say.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I would add to that that Sidious also enjoys revelling in his own strength and power, and in that respect the idea that he would seek to test his limits is perfectly feasible.

Really I'm seeing increasingly fewer reasons regarding Sidious' ability to perform the feat or willingness to do so. Only whether or not this is what the statement is saying, or intended to say.

http://replygif.net/i/163.gif

Originally posted by The_Tempest
...Who says he knew he was capable of such a feat before doing it?



Why?
Because the Emperor is above such petty power plays? lol



It's about as exciting as navigating the minutiae of Republic bureaucracy and parliamentary procedure for 20 years. Tedious work is kinda Sheev's thing.





^ There is precedent of Palpatine enjoying pulling shit over on people. He doesn't require an audience or someone to be in on the joke. The text says his enjoyment derives from people not knowing about the deception in question.

TK'ing an object as massive and as powerful as a Super Star Destroyer and then compelling the population to forget the act and then entertaining himself with their ignorance and helplessness is something I could very easily see him doing.



I've no idea, nor do I need one.



Because the opportunity to run like hell didn't present itself?

So, to recap: Palpatine is a malignant narcissist who has a penchant for self-aggrandizement and grandiosity. Burying a Super Star Destroyer and mindraping the witnesses is suitably grandiose. He may have done so in front of a small informed audience, Vader or the Inquisitor, or he might have done it in total privacy, but you've yet to prove that he requires an audience to do something grandiose and superfluous.

There's literally no objection you've offered that I haven't addressed lol.

Well he didn't do it so that's irrelevant but regardless I'm pretty sure Palpatine knows what he's capable of.

Because it would be completely pointless and he could make his point far easier by gesturing and bringing Vader to his knees.

The difference is Palpatine gets a pay off as he watches his schemes come to fruition and his political opponents thrown out of office or power lessened. Either the political opponents Palpatine just downgraded are aware or Palpatine's confidants and allies involved in the scheme are. Either way he gets validation.

Same as above. Sidious knows he'll eventually be able to reveal himself and that all of the Jedi will realize how naive and blind they'd been to have had the Sith Lord walking among them all this time.

Yes you do because your basis is that he likes to commit grandiose actions without the need for validation when he's never shown that before.

What, Maul couldn't have broken the window and jumped out with his brother? If he thought Sidious could win at any time he could have at least made the attempt.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Well he didn't do it so that's irrelevant but regardless I'm pretty sure Palpatine knows what he's capable of.

But he did do it, though.
And people only discover their abilities and shortcomings through testing, trial and error, experimentation, etc.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Because it would be completely pointless and he could make his point far easier by gesturing and bringing Vader to his knees.

Kinda like how he could have done that with Maul and Savage rather than fight them blade-to-blade?

Sidious employs all manner of methods to demonstrate his superiority. Physical attacks, mind games, etc.

They're not mutually exclusive.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
The difference is Palpatine gets a pay off as he watches his schemes come to fruition and his political opponents thrown out of office or power lessened. Either the political opponents Palpatine just downgraded are aware or Palpatine's confidants and allies involved in the scheme are. Either way he gets validation.

Your ignorance of politics and statecraft is glaring, so I'll give you a crash course: actual governments have labyrinthine and complex political systems that must be navigated every day by a vast multitude of actors. Governments also have to actually govern, as do the actors involved. Meaning Palpatine isn't just scheming and manipulating every second of every day, he actually has to work as Chancellor. Meaning he isn't working in every instance directly towards the Grand Plan.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Same as above. Sidious knows he'll eventually be able to reveal himself and that all of the Jedi will realize how naive and blind they'd been to have had the Sith Lord walking among them all this time.

Actually, Sidious never intended to fight or reveal himself to Yoda on Coruscant. The original goal was for Yoda to die on Kashyyyk, courtesy of Order 66, with the role Palpatine played in all of it unknown.

So... nah. He apparently just likes being able to dupe people sometimes.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Yes you do because your basis is that he likes to commit grandiose actions without the need for validation when he's never shown that before.

I literally just handed you an excerpt that says Palpatine was enjoying Yoda's total ignorance of what was going on. So no, I don't need to entertain your inane line of inquiry.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
What, Maul couldn't have broken the window and jumped out with his brother? If he thought Sidious could win at any time he could have at least made the attempt.

What, Sidious doesn't have legs with which to pursue them?

Or the power to simply drag them back inside the killbox?

http://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/4220899-e7prn.gif

mmm

You might as well concede.

Speaking of politics and Palpatine, I'm genuinely curious as to how he did work the angle part of being the Emperor. Like we see him as Chancellor with doing those duties, but as Emperor? I can't really recall anything, other then I guess the small scene in ROTJ in his throne room with those advisers next to him, but we never really see what happens.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You might as well concede.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I would add to that that Sidious also enjoys revelling in his own strength and power, and in that respect the idea that he would seek to test his limits is perfectly feasible.

Really I'm seeing increasingly fewer reasons regarding Sidious' ability to perform the feat or willingness to do so. Only whether or not this is what the statement is saying, or intended to say.

Nobody is questioning whether he would. The problem is, logically it makes no sense and people can't have it both ways. If you take that quote in isolation is one thing, when you combine the other quotes on the matter, it stands on very shaky ground. You can't say somebody wanted to show of their power, and then at the same time, say that same person hide what they did from the very people he was trying to impress. That logical progression is extremely flawed imo

Originally posted by The_Tempest
But he did do it, though.
And people only discover their abilities and shortcomings through testing, trial and error, experimentation, etc.



Kinda like how he could have done that with Maul and Savage rather than fight them blade-to-blade?

Sidious employs all manner of methods to demonstrate his superiority. Physical attacks, mind games, etc.

They're not mutually exclusive.



Your ignorance of politics and statecraft is glaring, so I'll give you a crash course: actual governments have labyrinthine and complex political systems that must be navigated every day by a vast multitude of actors. Governments also have to actually govern, as do the actors involved. Meaning Palpatine isn't just scheming and manipulating every second of every day, he actually has to work as Chancellor. Meaning he isn't working in every instance directly towards the Grand Plan.



Actually, Sidious never intended to fight or reveal himself to Yoda on Coruscant. The original goal was for Yoda to die on Kashyyyk, courtesy of Order 66, with the role Palpatine played in all of it unknown.

So... nah. He apparently just likes being able to dupe people sometimes.



I literally just handed you an excerpt that says Palpatine was enjoying Yoda's total ignorance of what was going on. So no, I don't need to entertain your inane line of inquiry.



What, Sidious doesn't have legs with which to pursue them?

Or the power to simply drag them back inside the killbox?

http://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/4220899-e7prn.gif

mmm

You might as well concede.

How did Sidious know he was capable of destroying the Imperial Palace then? And that's inaccurate, one can know their own limits by assessing their power in the Force similar to how Force users can generally gauge the power of another.

Yes but the point there was to utterly break Maul by giving him a glimpse of hope and then stomping on it. And what would this demonstration have meant to Vader in this hypothetical situation?

And that's what he has to do to accomplish the Grand Plan. Doesn't mean he enjoys it. And even if it did that in no way supports the idea that he would enjoy carrying out menial pointless tasks that lesser beings would.

What you don't think Palpatine accounted for survivors? I mentioned Yoda specifically because he survived but I imagine Palpatine would feel the same smug superior over all Jedi the the Jedi the same feelings of shame and frustration towards him in regards to him given how thoroughly they'd been duped.

Already addressed this above.

If Sidious had chased there's a chance Maul's soldiers would have noticed and come to their aid. And what would have been the point of fighting him if Maul had thought Sidious could kill him at any time?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Nobody is questioning whether he would. The problem is, logically it makes no sense and people can't have it both ways. If you take that quote in isolation is one thing, when you combine the other quotes on the matter, it stands on very shaky ground. You can't say somebody wanted to show of their power, and then at the same time, say that same person hide what they did from the very people he was trying to impress. That logical progression is extremely flawed imo

He's arguing that Sidious would have done it to impress himself.

Protip: you should consider trying to refute my points instead of asking inane, irrelevant questions, most of which I generously answered.

To recap: I've proven Sidious has privately enjoyed his superiority over ignorant dupes. If Vader or an Inquisitor were present, the feat would have been a grandiose display of power.

You've failed to rebut any of this and have instead offered the scintillating alternative that Sidious defeated the Lusankya in a debate.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Protip: you should consider trying to refute my points instead of asking inane, irrelevant questions, most of which I generously answered.

To recap: I've proven Sidious has privately enjoyed his superiority over ignorant dupes. If Vader or an Inquisitor were present, the feat would have been a grandiose display of power.

You've failed to rebut any of this and have instead offered the scintillating alternative that Sidious defeated the Lusankya in a debate.

I am refuting your points by questioning the glaring flaws in your argument.

He enjoyed it because he knew there would be a pay off when his opponents realized they'd been outsmarted and outmaneuvered later. There's nothing to suggest either Vader or any other Inquisitors would have been present at the time he would have have accomplished the feat.

I offered the alternative that Sidious buried the secret of the Lusankya rather then actually telekinetically doing so because the likelihood of him learning even basic engineering simplyso he could have displayed his power is far more unlikely then simply having his Engineering Corps do it for him which is stated to have happened in universe.

And since you failed to address it in your last post.

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
How did Sidious know he was capable of destroying the Imperial Palace then? And that's inaccurate, one can know their own limits by assessing their power in the Force similar to how Force users can generally gauge the power of another.

Yes but the point there was to utterly break Maul by giving him a glimpse of hope and then stomping on it. And what would this demonstration have meant to Vader in this hypothetical situation?

And that's what he has to do to accomplish the Grand Plan. Doesn't mean he enjoys it. And even if it did that in no way supports the idea that he would enjoy carrying out menial pointless tasks that lesser beings could do for him like learning basic engineering and putting support beams into place for hours or even days.

What you don't think Palpatine accounted for survivors? I mentioned Yoda specifically because he survived the Purge but I imagine Palpatine would feel the same smug superiority over all Jedi the the Jedi the same feelings of shame and frustration towards him in regards to him given how thoroughly they'd been duped.

Already addressed this above.

If Sidious had chased there's a chance Maul's soldiers would have noticed and come to their aid. And what would have been the point of fighting him if Maul had thought Sidious could kill him at any time?

If there are flaws in my argument, you've certainly failed to identify them. Your questions aren't anything other than blatant red herrings.

If I tell you I had steak for dinner, you haven't refuted that by asking me why I didn't have chicken instead.

Palpatine mused that he enjoyed Yoda'a ignorance. Palpatine also intended Yoda to die in ignorance on Kashyyyk. No grand payoff.

I've proven that Sidious is a malignant narcissist and private or public displays of power aren't beyond him.

And if the passage said that Sidious buried the secret of the Lusankya, you'd have a point. It didn't; so you don't.

PM me when you've come up with something worth more of my time. 😁

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
How did Sidious know he was capable of destroying the Imperial Palace then?

Haha owned.

My question ( singular ) was to point out that Sidious was obviously aware of his capabilities since he knew he could take apart the Imperial Palace.

No but if you had previously claimed you knew the answer to 2+2 and then later claimed you didn't I would ask which variables had changed which I did here.

He enjoyed the Jedi's collective ignorance. Many of them dying doesn't mean he can't enjoy the knowledge that the surviving Jedi felt the shame and self blame of failing to see through his ruse.

You haven't actually because none of the examples you provided showed he was satisfied with someone remaining unaware of his grandiose actions.

I do because the word "buried" doesn't need to have a qualifier beforehand to mean something wasn't literally buried.

So I take it you're conceding the point?

Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
My question ( singular ) was to point out that Sidious was obviously aware of his capabilities since he knew he could take apart the Imperial Palace.

No but if you had previously claimed you knew the answer to 2+2 and then later claimed you didn't I would ask which variables had changed which I did here.

He enjoyed the Jedi's collective ignorance. Many of them dying doesn't mean he can't enjoy the knowledge that the surviving Jedi felt the shame and self blame of failing to see through his ruse.

You haven't actually because none of the examples you provided showed he was satisfied with someone remaining unaware of his grandiose actions.

I do because the word "buried" doesn't need to have a qualifier beforehand to mean something wasn't literally buried.

So I take it you're conceding the point?

Because Palpatine has done stuff in the past to lead him to believe he can crack the Palace's foundation? lol

Not at all. I gave you an open invitation to let me know when you had something to offer.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Because Palpatine has done stuff in the past to lead him to believe he can crack the Palace's foundation? lol

Not at all. I gave you an open invitation to let me know when you had something to offer.

Such as? Unless you're saying he tested his abilities off screen and then suddenly stopped doing so around the time of the Lusankya feat your justification here makes absolutely no sense.

Honestly though I'm starting to realize this is about the sum total of what you're capable of nowadays. What I've seen from your debating in the last year and a half constitutes the following.

"Sidious's force storms can consume the universe cause a quote says it can."

"Sidious can bury the Lusankya even if that would either cause him to go against his character or spend hours learning basic engineering cause I want him to."

Or my personal favorite "This quote should be taken literally because I said so."

This little encounter has really lowered my respect for you tbh.

Same goes for you Temp. I truly hope you can bring more to the table in the future then what you did this time because honestly, I'm not impressed.

I'm not saying he stopped testing his skills off screen lol. I'm saying the burial of the Lusankya could have been one of those tests. They're not incompatible.

I suppose I'll just have to find a way to cope with the displeasure of the towering intellect that believes Sidious beat the Lusankya in a debate and Nihilus isn't a Sith Lord because fvck sources lol.

You know how to get in touch with me if you cobble together something of merit.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'm not saying he stopped testing his skills off screen lol. I'm saying the burial of the Lusankya could have been one of those tests. They're not incompatible.

I suppose I'll just have to find a way to cope with the displeasure of the towering intellect that believes Sidious beat the Lusankya in a debate and Nihilus isn't a Sith Lord because fvck sources lol.

You know how to get in touch with me if you cobble together something of merit.

Right. Because he'd really risk the Lusankya, one of the most expensive and powerful warships in the fleet, as a test of his what he's capable of. Lmao.

That really the best you can do? Saying my example of a word not being used literally was a claim? :/ Well, if that's the best you can do...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twkGJY_JxLE

It's just banter at this point, Synd. I'm not looking to break you upon my will as I did my pet Neph. You're wrong, but this my mocking you is merely gentle teasing.

Same. Just ribbing you old bud.

I do wish you'd presented some better arguments tbh but we all have rough days.

Perhaps one day I can command the respect you enjoy and, as Sheev once did to a ten mile inanimate object, bury you in a debate.

Maybe one day Tempest. Maybe one day.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Speaking of politics and Palpatine, I'm genuinely curious as to how he did work the angle part of being the Emperor. Like we see him as Chancellor with doing those duties, but as Emperor? I can't really recall anything, other then I guess the small scene in ROTJ in his throne room with those advisers next to him, but we never really see what happens.

In Legends, he left most of the day-to-day stuff to various underlings while he concerned himself with cosmological aspirations.

Same in canon.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
In Legends, he left most of the day-to-day stuff to various underlings while he concerned himself with cosmological aspirations.

Same in canon.

Ah, noted then.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Ah, noted then.

The implication in both respects being political authority isn't the actual goal, just a critical step towards a greater one.

Ya I know, was just curious in how he handled it.