Proof that Novel blurbs are canon

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Ursumeles
IIRC, there was an Leeland Chee quote, or so. Does anyone has it?

NewGuy01
Well, he has that quote that essentially says, "basically everything published regardless of the media, excluding x&y, is canon."

He never directly addresses it or anything like that, to my knowledge, though.

Ursumeles
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well, he has that quote that essentially says, "basically everything published regardless of the media, excluding x&y, is canon."

Do you have a scan?

Ziggystardust
- chee

UCanShootMyNova
Oh shit. Noice. Thanks Ziggy.

Darth Thor
All that C-Canon stuff isn't relevant anymore.

Now it's either Canon or Legends (Non-Canon).

DarthAnt66
Nah

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nah

Fated Xtasy
So we're taking the Bane book cover quote and the Plaggy one at face value now?

Christ.

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
So we're taking the Bane book cover quote and the Plaggy one at face value now?

Christ.

Your forum's choice really

Just play a game of "spot the contradiction" and see how they hold up *shrugs*

After all, contradiction are dealt with on a case by case basis according to Chee in that same quote

UCanShootMyNova
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
So we're taking the Bane book cover quote and the Plaggy one at face value now?

Christ.

Nope. I only take quotes that clear up an ambiguous issue or are supported by feats.

ILS
Death to blurbs:

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/starkiller-vs-darth-caedus-1694177/?page=2#js-message-72

TL;DR

Chee saying "everything owned by Lucas is canon" doesn't apply to novel blurbs. Blurbs, cover art, the paperback itself etc, are owned by the publisher.

In this case the publisher of most Star Wars books, Del Rey, isn't owned by Lucasfilms/Disney. Their parent company is Random House Books, who also happen to publish George R. R. Martin's books, along with countless others.

Beniboybling
Death to Star Wars literature you mean? Since it's all "owned" by Del Rey. erm

ILS
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Death to Star Wars literature you mean? Since it's all "owned" by Del Rey. erm They don't own creative/copyright rights, though. Unless I'm mistaken, it would be a breach of contract for Del Rey to go outside of Disney/Lucasfilms and get someone who isn't Drew to write some Darth Zannah books. You need permission from Star Wars to write Star Wars books.

Point being, nobody from Lucasfilms is responsible for, or has any authority over, what goes on a blurb.

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by ILS
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/starkiller-vs-darth-caedus-1694177/?page=2#js-message-72

Holy f-uck, Myth was 10/10 retarded in that thread a year ago.

ILS
Yeah, so for example, a single author could go to a publisher and try to get their work published. In the contract, they would cover film and translation rights. The publisher would say something like "we'll pay this and this if you let us translate your book to Russian, and this if you give us the right to make a movie out of it."

But, clearly, Del Rey doesn't have film rights for Star Wars. On the same note, they clearly don't have control over what goes into the book itself, aside from saying "We'll publish you, but only if you change this" - it's still up to the author whether or not they make the suggested changes.

The publisher only draws up a contract with the author, gets their permission for X, Y and Z, and then sell the book. The key word being sell.

SunRazer
Don't think anyone's been treating the blurbs as canon. But fallibility is not the same as inaccuracy. It's just a point in favour of Plagueis.

ILS
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Holy f-uck, Myth was 10/10 retarded in that thread a year ago. Classic Comic Vine for you.

ILS
Originally posted by SunRazer
Don't think anyone's been treating the blurbs as canon. But fallibility is not the same as inaccuracy. It's just a point in favour of Plagueis. My argument stopped hinging on fallibility a long time ago.

Is it a point in favour? I guess. Is it something I would rely on if there was nothing else? Not a chance in hell. I don't disagree with the blurb but that doesn't mean it's coming from a reliable/official source. A layperson can be right about something but that doesn't mean they have more authority than an expert in the field, or in this case, someone who has the right to sell and advertise does not have creative rights for all of Star Wars.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by ILS
They don't own creative/copyright rights, though. Unless I'm mistaken, it would be a breach of contract for Del Rey to go outside of Disney/Lucasfilms and get someone who isn't Drew to write some Darth Zannah books. You need permission from Star Wars to write Star Wars books.

Point being, nobody from Lucasfilms is responsible for, or has any authority over, what goes on a blurb. No, a breach of contract would be for Del Rey to publish a SW book outside of the LucasBooks imprint, the Lucas company and publishing arm of Lucasfilm that publishers like Dey Rey (and DK, and Titan etc.) have the rights to create SW liscensed out to. Much in the same way that independent authors like Drew, who are not Lucas companies, and whom often write content for other universes, like Mass Effect, are liscensed as authors by LucasBooks.

Or in other words yes, the blurb is produced by Lucasfilm, or rather Lucasbooks, a Lucas company, just through a series of third parties. And yes, all of it is ultimately owned by them. Case in point, on the back cover of the Darth Plagueis novel, right beneath the blurb, is the following:

http://i.imgur.com/b2ZKh5E.jpg

So yeah, it's canon. thumb up

ILS

Azronger
I'm sorry ILS, but Chee specifically said "EVERYthing else" in his quote regarding what was formerly known as "C canon", now Legends.

You may have your own opinion on the matter, and that's fine, but I do not see why advertisement blurbs would not be included in it. You may make all sorts of excuses about Del Rey and shit but in the end there's is nothing outright stating they aren't canon, and they are ultimately part of the same books as the stories themselves.

And as Beni already explained, Lucasbooks - a Lucas company - owns the blurbs. So yes, they are canon.

ILS
Originally posted by Azronger
I'm sorry ILS, but Chee specifically said "EVERYthing else" in his quote regarding what was formerly known as "C canon", now Legends. Everything Lucas owns, yeah.

Lucas didn't go to a publisher and sell the rights to sell and advertise their book so they could... still own the rights to sell and advertise their book.

Del Rey is a company independent of Star Wars, who sell Star Wars books, and they put the "Lucasbooks" imprint on the cover for marketing purposes. At least, that's my conclusion at the moment.
I think that's a massive oversimplification of the issue, but to each their own.

ILS
For the record though, I wouldn't mind blurbs being canon.

Ah well, Lucasbooks said it, it must be true. Nobody else can replicate Maul's feats from that book and come out alive.

ILS
Maul > anyone else in terms of enforcing things.

MythLord

Beniboybling
@ILS, that's the typical function of an imprint yes. But that's not the point, the point is that this imprint, LucasBooks, is owned by Lucasfilm, and in that respect is a Lucasfilm "company" all in itself, the right to publish under the imprint having been liscensed to Del Rey. You'll also find this imprint on other books, like the SWTORE, which was published by DK.

What your point seems to boil down to is that Del Rey is a third party, and therefore the blurbs were produced by them, not Lucasfilm. But my point is that, like the author, they are simply producing the book of Lucasfilm's behalf, under the liscense of a Lucas company, which should be considered the same thing. (And yes, the IP of the blurb - i.e. the characters & events being commented on - are Lucasfilm's. And no, Lucasfilm hasn't sold the rights to anything, only given Del Rey permission.)

On the other hand if you're to argue that as a third party, Del Rey and anything they produce is not to be considered canon, the same logic must be applied to the author. Which would naturally invalidate SW canon wholesale.

cs_zoltan
>"One of"
>Character opinion

http://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/get-that-shit-out-of-my-face-vga-2012-commercial-samuel-l-jackson-baby-gif.gif

Shit attempt to wank Dooku.

ILS
Originally posted by Beniboybling
@ILS, that's the typical function of an imprint yes. But that's not the point, the point is that this imprint, LucasBooks, is owned by Lucasfilm, and in that respect is a Lucasfilm "company" all in itself, the right to publish under the imprint having been liscensed to Del Rey. You'll also find this imprint on other books, like the SWTORE, which was published by DK.

What your point seems to boil down to is that Del Rey is a third party, and therefore the blurbs were produced by them, not Lucasfilm. But my point is that, like the author, they are simply producing the book of Lucasfilm's behalf, under the liscense of a Lucas company, which should be considered the same thing. (And yes, the IP of the blurb - i.e. the characters & events being commented on - are Lucasfilm's. And no, Lucasfilm hasn't sold the rights to anything, only given Del Rey permission.). That makes sense. So your argument in a nutshell is that, regardless of who wrote the blurb, the fact that Lucasfilms licensed it means they approve of the contents; which in essence does put blurbs in the same category as "everything", as Leland said. Del Rey doesn't own the contents of the blurb/cover, but they were given permission by Lucas to sell it on their behalf and take a share of the profits.

Thus, blurbs can be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, like the rest of the EU.

I'm not fully subscribed to the idea since I still have little clue how it works legally, and I won't use novel blurbs unless the other party wants to as well (because honestly, I feel like if you have to go to a novel blurb for information that isn't inside the book itself, it's not really a strong argument to begin with), but I'll go with this for now.

And I'm also going to start looking through them for funny shit.

ILS
Could be worth asking someone from Del Rey/Lucasbooks or whatever for clarification.

MythLord
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
>"One of"
>Character opinion

http://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/get-that-shit-out-of-my-face-vga-2012-commercial-samuel-l-jackson-baby-gif.gif

Shit attempt to wank Dooku.

LMAO. It ain't no character opinion you dumb fugg, it's a blurb.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by ILS
That makes sense. So your argument in a nutshell is that, regardless of who wrote the blurb, the fact that Lucasfilms licensed it means they approve of the contents; which in essence does put blurbs in the same category as "everything", as Leland said. Del Rey doesn't own the contents of the blurb/cover, but they were given permission by Lucas to sell it on their behalf and take a share of the profits.

Thus, blurbs can be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, like the rest of the EU.

I'm not fully subscribed to the idea since I still have little clue how it works legally, and I won't use novel blurbs unless the other party wants to as well (because honestly, I feel like if you have to go to a novel blurb for information that isn't inside the book itself, it's not really a strong argument to begin with), but I'll go with this for now.My point is, to be exact, that they produced it, even if through licensing out a third party, therefore it qualifies as canon, being "anything produced by any of the Lucas companies", the company in question being LucasBooks.

I'm not sure there is anything to be gained in regards to legal rights as such, given the word "ownership" isn't the qualification of canon in any source I'm aware of. All I can be sure of though is that Del Rey can't do anything SW related, whether it be write a blurb or a book, without being commissioned to do so. And publish SW books under the LucasBooks umbrella.

As long as you spend a comparable amount of time looking for entertaining excerpts from other mediums, wouldn't want you to think blurbs are an exception or something. smile

Azronger
I guess it just boils down to "agree to disagree" in the end. Although I'll still tackle your post on CV, if you don't mind, ILS.

ILS
By all means.

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by MythLord
LMAO. It ain't no character opinion you dumb fugg, it's a blurb.

"Yoda is sure of one thing."

darthbane77
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
So we're taking the Bane book cover quote and the Plaggy one at face value now?

Christ.

|King Joker|
What's the Bane quote again?

MythLord
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
"Yoda is sure of one thing."

I was actually referring to "one of his greatest adversaries" bit. mmm

NewGuy01

cs_zoltan
Originally posted by MythLord
I was actually referring to "one of his greatest adversaries" bit. mmm

For which I replied "one of". Out of the 2 named laughing out loud

MythLord
And that isn't character opinion. Then again, Dooku is basically the only real threat Yoda faced besides Sidious.

ILS
Originally posted by MythLord
Then again, Dooku is basically the only real threat Yoda faced besides Sidious. Even Ventress would count among Yoda's deadliest enemies, the only issue is there are few people who can even register to Yoda as more than a fly.

MythLord
Who did Yoda actually face again, now that I think about it?
Asajj, Dooku, Sidious and some random Bpfasshi Dark Jedi...

Zenwolf
Originally posted by MythLord
random Bpfasshi Dark Jedi...

That wasn't Yoda, that was Minch.

ares834
No. Yoda also killed one when he saved Jorj.

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