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There is a most telling difference between Valkorion and Darth Sidious, it is seen when they engage powerhouses in combat, for example when Darth Sidious faces Master Yoda, it is indicated in a plethora of sources that the fight is mostly a stalemate:













Master Yoda is obviously the most powerful Jedi of all time, until the likes of Master Luke Skywalker. But then we have Revan, who is noted to be one of the most powerful Force weilders in the entire mythos:



Infact, Revan is noted to be more powerful than any Jedi, including the likes of Master Thon, Odan-Urr, and all others:



Revan is again stated to be one of the most powerful Force users ever:



He has been capable of ashing Sith Lords such as Darth Nyriss, who has Force lightning feats even Count Dooku hasn't replicated. This was over three hundred years before his prime. He also faced two strike teams of some of the most powerful Jedi and Sith in the galaxy, back to back, and was barely defeated on both occasions.

Yet even he is not capable of standing against Emperor Vitiate:



Noting that this is merely Vitiate's resurrected spirit and not the much more powerful Valkorion.

So whilst one can certainly state that Yoda is more powerful than Revan, thus making Darth Sidious' stalemate less of stand out. It can't overcome the fact that Valkorion was beyond being far too powerful for Revan, the gap is even more significant.

Valkorion's supreme because Sidious stalemated Yoda and Valkorion's better than Revan, even though there isn't any comparison between Yoda and Revan? Right.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Valkorion's supreme because Sidious stalemated Yoda and Valkorion's better than Revan, even though there isn't any comparison between Yoda and Revan? Right.

Lol.

Nyriss' Lightning is hardly beyond Dooku's, anyway.

Revan is clearly approaching Yoda in power, given by the time of the novel he's capable of absorbing and reflecting lightning much more potent than anything Dooku has managed.

Yet Valkorion absorbed a planet after already being far too powerful for Revan, which is frankly one of the best powerscaling accolades there is.

There's no reason to believe that Dooku charging up his Lightning on Kaas wouldn't be similarly powerful. Nyriss' uncharged Lightning wasn't beyond Dooku's at all.

Killing Ventress while injured is still > being able to ash post-prime Meetra on a powerful DS nexus with charged Lightning, lol.

Yeah, if we're talking composite versions, then a mortally injured Dooku killing Ventress is extremely impressive since she's withstood electrocution from Coruscant's high-power cables and then a subsequent fall from a skyscraper.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Nyriss' Lightning is hardly beyond Dooku's, anyway.

Given Meetra alone, who is more powerful than Darth Traya, shits on Asajj Ventress in Force power, and the fact Nyriss would've incinerated both her and Scourge. Yet Revan utterly stomped her with his raw power, and then Revan gets even more powerful by the time of SOR. Vitiate was still far too powerful for Revan then, and Vitiate got even stronger, absorbing Ziost after the fact, becoming Valkorion in full.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Given Meetra alone, who is more powerful than Darth Traya, shits on Asajj Ventress in Force power, and the fact Nyriss would've incinerated both her and Scourge. Yet Revan utterly stomped her with his raw power, and then Revan gets even more powerful by the time of SOR. Vitiate was still far too powerful for Revan then, and Vitiate got even stronger, absorbing Ziost after the fact, becoming Valkorion in full.
Meetra was post-prime, and on a Dark Side nexus that sh!ts on Malachor, and Nyriss charged her lightning, like, 10 seconds.
Killing Ventress, who has Similar/better durability feats than Meetra, anyway, with a single burst is more impressive.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Given Meetra alone, who is more powerful than Darth Traya, shits on Asajj Ventress in Force power, and the fact Nyriss would've incinerated both her and Scourge. Yet Revan utterly stomped her with his raw power, and then Revan gets even more powerful by the time of SOR. Vitiate was still far too powerful for Revan then, and Vitiate got even stronger, absorbing Ziost after the fact, becoming Valkorion in full.

Yes, because Revan Meetra is totally comparable to KotOR II Exile.

There's no such thing as 'post prime' Meetra, that's fanon, Dromund Kaas is more powerful than Malachor V? Source?

Ventress has absolutely nothing physically on Meetra traversing Malachor's crushing surface whilst killing packs of storm beasts, before cutting through an entire legion of elite Sith and then defeating Darth Sion in several contests before defeating Darth Traya on a colossal geyser of dark side energy.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Yes, because Revan Meetra is totally comparable to KotOR II Exile.

Given the Dromund Kaas nexus is effecting her, sure, but that can't completely negate Nyriss' power.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Given the Dromund Kaas nexus is effecting her, sure, but that can't completely negate Nyriss' power.

As well as minus all of her Force Bonds, minus all the strength she gained from draining others through her Wound, and Force Enlightenment.

Or we can stop pretending that Drew's interpretation of her is at all comparable to how she's depicted in KotOR II.

Just thought of something else - on Korriban, a much less powerful nexus than Dromund Kaas, Dooku's usages of the Force were leaving behind pools of darkness, which even Nyriss wasn't doing. I think that makes it clear that Tyranus is beyond Nyriss with respects to dark side power. So the Revan/Nyriss vs Yoda/Dooku comparison can be binned as well.

Yoda would have slaughtered Vitiate lmao.

Christ help me... How dumb is the TOR brigade?

*desperate

http://www.relatably.com/m/img/why-not-both-meme-spanish/67031947.jpg

*Both.

Edit: Ninja'd, lol.

Originally posted by MythLord
Christ help me... How dumb is the TOR brigade?
Sub-Scourge.

So borderline retarded.

Borderline?

Edit: Actually most of them seem intelligent, but these arguments aren't good at all, tbh.

Originally posted by MythLord
Christ help me... How dumb is the TOR brigade?

I'm so 'dumb', that I have a Mastery in the Arts of Business Administration from UP Diliman and earn the equivalent of US$84,700 a month for taking paid-in-contract business trips around Manila, Malaysia, Singapore and Hong Kong all year round.

But I'm sure I'm a retard who gets to spend half her day on beaches whilst the bunch of you are doing homework.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Borderline?

Edit: Actually most of them seem intelligent, but these arguments aren't good at all, tbh.

Don't worry, you're far too new to understand the irony of all of these posts.

Temp gets it though.

Is 'Ad Hominem' a term you're familiar with.

In other terms, ask Nai.

Instead of attacking and defending each other, how about attacking and defending arguments?

Originally posted by AncientPower
Is 'Ad Hominem' a term you're familiar with.

In other terms, ask Nai.
Yes, it is. Not sure wht that means in this context, tho.

Honestly; most of TOR Brigade are superior debaters to the the ones championing the PT era.

Sure, guys like Temp, Nova, and such are sheer powerhouses - but people like Urs and Wollf shouldn't be saying shit, giving their utter lack of debating skills.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Honestly; most of TOR Brigade are superior debaters to the the ones championing the PT era.

Sure, guys like Temp, Nova, and such are sheer powerhouses - but people like Urs and Wollf shouldn't be saying shit, giving their utter lack of debating skills.

When the TOR brigades best argument for Valkorion being > Sidious is: "well Revan is ~ Yoda cuz my arbitrary ranking, and Valkorion is >>> Revan and Sidious is = Yoda, so Valky wins" I sure as hell am going to say sh!t.

Your judgement on debating ability comes from who's opinion you agree more, not who's case is legitimately better, as with most debaters on the forums.

And TOR's only good debater at this point is Ant. Their other champions are LeGeND, Neph and, I guess AP. Meanwhile the PT brigade has Temp, Beni, ILS, Nova, myself, Zoltan, Joker, etc. I take the PT brigade any day, tbh.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo

Sure, guys like Temp, Nova, and such are sheer powerhouses - but people like Urs and Wollf shouldn't be saying shit, giving their utter lack of debating skills.
Kek.
At first, I am often trolling. Like most of the forum, it seems lol.
Second, I don't think tht I am better(or anywhere close to) Neph, AP or even Ant in debating ability. Even less so, as my english is utterly shit, lol.
That being said, I think that I am still allowed to point things out/present my opinion (like that Dooku's lightning > Nyriss') and ask questions.
I see no reason, why I should accept that the Accolades that put Sidious > Vitate are all wrong, only because Nai made an argument in one therad. (IIRC, it was something about the quotes being In universe).

Originally posted by MythLord

And TOR's only good debater at this point is Ant. Their other champions are LeGeND, Neph and, I guess AP. Meanwhile the PT brigade has Temp, Beni, ILS, Nova, myself, Zoltan, Joker, etc. I take the PT brigade any day, tbh.
Nah, imho AP is actually an good debater, tho I find her opinions and arguments often shit, tbh. Also, If we count Skillz, he is also good. As well as "TenebrousWay", who made good points about Malgus standing.

Eh, I can see AP being a legitimately good debater, but this case is doing her no favours.

Does Skillz debate nowadays?

I'm curious as to what caused DC's recent shift in mindset, tbh.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I'm so 'dumb', that I have a Mastery in the Arts of Business Administration from UP Diliman and earn the equivalent of US$84,700 a month for taking paid-in-contract business trips around Manila, Malaysia, Singapore and Hong Kong all year round.

But I'm sure I'm a retard who gets to spend half her day on beaches whilst the bunch of you are doing homework.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Honestly; most of TOR Brigade are superior debaters to the the ones championing the PT era.

Sure, guys like Temp, Nova, and such are sheer powerhouses - but people like Urs and Wollf shouldn't be saying shit, giving their utter lack of debating skills. haermm

Originally posted by MythLord
Eh, I can see AP being a legitimately good debater, but this case is doing her no favours.

Does Skillz debate nowadays? She's actually just bad.

Originally posted by MythLord
Eh, I can see AP being a legitimately good debater, but this case is doing her no favours.

Does Skillz debate nowadays?
Yeah, her last two therad weren't that good.

Dunno.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I'm curious as to what caused DC's recent shift in mindset, tbh.

The spoils of the PT brigade forced KMC to conceive a counterforce. This time it won't be enough tho uhuh

Especially since DC is more of a cheerleader atm, like me

What an utterly retarded outlook to have, lal. Debating ability should be judged by who makes the better arguments, not the stance of said arguments. If not, you're just being bias to which one fits your arbitrary rankings. Rather than point articulation, ingenuity, overall intellect, etc.

The rest of your post is just aimless chest beating, and bias debating rankings so I'm just going to ignore.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I'm so 'dumb', that I have a Mastery in the Arts of Business Administration from UP Diliman and earn the equivalent of US$84,700 a month for taking paid-in-contract business trips around Manila, Malaysia, Singapore and Hong Kong all year round.

But I'm sure I'm a retard who gets to spend half her day on beaches whilst the bunch of you are doing homework. You know, she has a point. While all of you retards are doing homework to become qualified in your desired field, AP is taking the world by storm and making big money while doing it.

With her... Master's degree... from a university... which she presumably did a lot of homework to obtain.

And it's risen her self-esteem to such heights that she decided to boast about it to people young enough to be in school because one of them... called her dumb.

You go, AP. Killin' it.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Debating ability should be judged by who makes the better arguments,

I disagree. That you make better arguments =/= that younare a better debater.
I remember Nova demolishing someone in a debate, although his arguments were cancer.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
What an utterly retarded outlook to have, lal. Debating ability should be judged by who makes the better arguments, not the stance of said arguments. If not, you're just being bias to which one fits your arbitrary rankings. Rather than point articulation, ingenuity, overall intellect, etc.

The rest of your post is just aimless chest beating, and bias debating rankings so I'm just going to ignore.

A few weeks ago your top 5 best debaters consisted of 4 PT debaters and only 1 from TOR

@Urs....what? A debaters quality is hinged on how well he/she makes arguments.

Bandwagon'ing with quality debaters doesn't make you one.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
A few weeks ago your top 5 best debaters consisted of 4 PT debaters and only 1 from TOR #exposed

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
A few weeks ago your top 5 best debaters consisted of 4 PT debaters and only 1 from TOR

Yes, and still do, but that doesn't actually change the point I'm making here. Once you take out Nova/ILS/Temp/Beni, the Brigade gets weak af.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
@Urs....what? A debaters quality is hinged on how well he/she makes arguments.

Bandwagon'ing with quality debaters doesn't make you one. But does bandwagoning with sh*t debaters as you do make you sh*t? mmm

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
....what? A debaters quality is hinged on how well he/she makes arguments.
Well, we may have different definitions of arguments.
It is mainly how you represent your argument, and how good your rhetoric is.
An example for good rhetoric would be Ziggy, or Nai.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Yes, and still do, but that doesn't actually change the point I'm making here. Once you take out Nova/ILS/Temp/Beni, the Brigade gets weak af.
Nah. We still have Zoltan, then
Edit: And Ellimist.

Az is shaping up to be a quality debatur tbh.

And of course Temp.

But DC is right, heavyweights like Leg, Neph and AP are much better.

Originally posted by SunRazer
I'm curious as to what caused DC's recent shift in mindset, tbh.
I used to be blinded like you guys until I saw the light. I am above petty TOR vs PT arguments tat make even quality debaters adopt retarded stances.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Well, we may have different definitions of arguments.
It is mainly how you represent your argument, and how good your rhetoric is.
An example for good rhetoric would be Ziggy, or Nai.

Nai is a quality debater, I just disagree on 99.99% of his stances, lmao.

Ziggy on other hand, is just a case of, as Shawn Carter would put it: "Just because you don't understand him that doesn't mean he nice, that just mean you don't understand all the bullshit that he writes".

Naturally is Nai a very good debater, but he has awesome rhetoric.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
What an utterly retarded outlook to have, lal. Debating ability should be judged by who makes the better arguments, not the stance of said arguments. If not, you're just being bias to which one fits your arbitrary rankings. Rather than point articulation, ingenuity, overall intellect, etc.

Which is how most users actually judge a debater's "skill", nowadays. You'll obviously root more for the debater who's ranking is closer to your own, than the reverse, unless an argumenti so well crafted it makes you change your opinion entirely.

However, arguments like that are rare, mostly due to most forum users already clinging tightly to a respective head-canon ranking.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
The rest of your post is just aimless chest beating, and bias debating rankings so I'm just going to ignore.

And your original post wasn't?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
But does bandwagoning with sh*t debaters as you do make you sh*t? mmm

Except, I don't bandwagon babe. I come up with my own arguments too occasionally.

Sure you do.

Hence, the reason Star Wars debating is as shit as it is today.


Not really, no. Especially not the "chest beating" part. I'll let other judge the quality of my debating prowess, or lack thereof.

If scaling is allowed Thon was able to seal planet razing Dark side energies into Lake Nathh. Revan scaling from that makes him a beast.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Hence, the reason Star Wars debating is as shit as it is today.

Quite.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Not really, no. Especially not the "chest beating" part. I'll let other judge the quality of my debating prowess, or lack thereof.

I guess, yeah. But really, today's judgement of debating prowess really is just how much you actually agree with the conclusion, not the quality of the argument with which the conclusion is reached.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Sure you do.

Despite you being doubtful of my motives, ily all the same.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Yes, and still do, but that doesn't actually change the point I'm making here. Once you take out Nova/ILS/Temp/Beni, the Brigade gets weak af.

And if you take out the 4 top from TOR then they cease to exist

Originally posted by The Merchant
If scaling is allowed Thon was able to seal planet razing Dark side energies into Lake Nathh. Revan scaling from that makes him a beast.

TPM Mace > Thon too tho

Originally posted by Beniboybling

Originally posted by SunRazer
There's no reason to believe that Dooku charging up his Lightning on Kaas wouldn't be similarly powerful. Nyriss' uncharged Lightning wasn't beyond Dooku's at all.

Irrelevant in the comparison to Revan and Master Yoda.

Sorry, just felt the need to say that.

Sorry AP but that was horrible.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I'm so 'dumb', that I have a Mastery in the Arts of Business Administration from UP Diliman and earn the equivalent of US$84,700 a month for taking paid-in-contract business trips around Manila, Malaysia, Singapore and Hong Kong all year round.

But I'm sure I'm a retard who gets to spend half her day on beaches whilst the bunch of you are doing homework.

LOL wow, Myth triggered the f**k out of AP.

Anyway, shit thread.

That's why no one can refute the argument and actually argue Revan isn't approaching Yoda tier.

Yoda bending back Sidious' Lightning is several orders of magnitude above Revan being burned to a crisp by Vitiate's Lightning. Lifting dozens, if not hundreds of droidekas high into the sky with a hand raise is beyond Revan's caliber. Smashing together two vessels that are several hundreds of meters long, wide and tall with enough force to destroy them is beyond Revan's caliber.

So Sidious is superior, because Yoda can bend his lightning back?

I mean ignoring circular wank, Revan was easily replicating all of Yoda's prior tutaminis feats and when he faced Vitiate he was very quickly down and out.

Revan vastly improved by the time of SOR, he gained three centuries of insight into the Emperor's mind and was stated to have intensified his power dramatically.

Yet Vitiate as of Yavin IV would be far too powerful for Revan in his prime to contend with, Vitiate as of Ziost finally replenished his Force reserves and the absorbed Ziost. Making him much more powerful than before.

The only way to argue out of this, is to lowball Revan's best feats, Revan doesn't even need to be as powerful as Yoda for this scaling to remain accurate.

The Outlander, Lana Beniko and Senya combined managed to pull the Gravestone out of its burial site. Revan is far more powerful than them combined.

Vaylin ripped a generator apart that was the size of a skyscraper, yet she's vastly inferior to Revan herself.

Just because Revan doesn't have OCW wank to contend with, doesn't mean he isn't capable of doing so.

It's hardly circular. I didn't cite that Sidious was superior to Vitiate because his Lightning could overpower Yoda. Sidious still has his natural scaling, his lightsaber bending, etc.

In other words, "ignoring Yoda's best feat because I can't deal with it", Revan's matched Yoda's Tutaminis feats?

Also, your quote is from the perspective of Darth Marr, who doesn't have an accurate handle on either of Revan or Vitiate's abilities.

OCW wank? TOR portrays Force users in one of the most hyperbolic manners to date, and yet they still have non-Force sensitives beating them

Dooku blasting holes in multiple troopers and Malgus blasting holes in a Jedi Knight while massively pre-prime and near fatally injured are far better lightning feats than Nyriss uncharged feat of charring a pair of guards on a nexus.

The whole argument is pretty ridiculous lol

-Yoda is the most powerful Jedi ever
-Revan is one of the most powerful Jedi ever
-The battle between Vitiate and Revan was much more one sided than Yoda vs Sidious

Conclusion: Valkorion > Sidious.

LMAO.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Hence, the reason Star Wars debating is as shit as it is today.

If I had a nickel for every thing that's "the reason Star Wars debating is shit now"...

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Dooku blasting holes in multiple troopers

Where was this one?

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
The whole argument is pretty ridiculous lol

-Yoda is the most powerful Jedi ever
-Revan is one of the most powerful Jedi ever
-The battle between Vitiate and Revan was much more one sided than Yoda vs Sidious

Conclusion: Valkorion > Sidious.

LMAO.

Rofl.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Where was this one?

Somebody said about this feat on some thread some days ago and I took it by granted.

The more accurate description is that Dooku unleashed lightning that blasted through multiple, adjacent troopers.

Yoda's best tutaminis feat which has been replicated by Mother Talzin and to a degree, even Galen Marek.

Not that it isn't impressive, but your false equivalence aside, Vitiate's lightning is so far beyond Nyriss' that it's a comparative joke. Nyriss, whose lightning was capable of incinerating one of the three most powerful Jedi in three hundred years, and Scourge who tanked Xedrix's lightning. Who despite suffering from age is still wanked to be the third most powerful Sith in the empire by his time besides the Emperor himself.

Nyriss' lightning being amped also isn't remotely relevant to Revan's raw power, infact it only makes Revan more impressive that he is doing this on a nexus that he states blocks his farsight abilities. Then add three centuries of him gaining knowledge and the fact he is stated to have further intensified his powers as of SOR, and we have a guy that isn't just ashing Nyriss tier Force users, he's likely twice that degree of strength and mastery. Factoring in that he is freely abusing his Force in balance powers and is drawing on the dark side without any hesitation.

He went from losing to a single smaller strike team at the Foundry, to barely being defeated by two much larger and much more powerful groups, who were aided by his other half's spirit. All whilst dragging his dead body around through sheer will power and focusing his powers on the activation of the Temple of Sacrifice.

Darth Marr is simply one source among many, both in-universe and out of universe, that state Revan was insane for even believing he can defeat Vitiate.

There's really no counter here.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Dooku blasting holes in multiple troopers and Malgus blasting holes in a Jedi Knight while massively pre-prime and near fatally injured are far better lightning feats than Nyriss uncharged feat of charring a pair of guards on a nexus.

Given Nyriss can ash two far more powerful Force users than a no-name with a singular telekinesis feat, not really.

I'm lost on how this is supposed to prove Valk > Sids.

Sids was stalemated by Yoda whereas Vitiate, not even prime Valkorion, is stated to be far too powerful for someone as strong as prime Revan.

I don't see how killing Nyriss puts you on par with Yoda.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Given Nyriss can ash two far more powerful Force users than a no-name with a singular telekinesis feat, not really.

Yes, while charging her powers on a nexus.

I cited two noncharged, nonamped feats that are superior to her uncharged but still amped feat - charring two guards.

It isn't simply incinerating Nyriss with ease, as I've made clear.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Sids was stalemated by Yoda whereas Vitiate, not even prime Valkorion, is stated to be far too powerful for someone as strong as prime Revan.

Yoda shits on Revan, and DE Sidious is far above RotS Sidious as well.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Yes, while charging her powers on a nexus.

I cited two noncharged, nonamped feats that are superior to her uncharged but still amped feat - charring two guards.

In what way are you not understanding that this only makes it more impressive for Revan? I don't give a shit about her uncharged, unamped lightning, this is same common sense Carthage struggled to reason with.

Incinerating Nyriss is the single most impressive thing Revan has under his belt. The fluff doesn't matter.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Sids was stalemated by Yoda whereas Vitiate, not even prime Valkorion, is stated to be far too powerful for someone as strong as prime Revan.

Now, you should quantify Revan's standing towards Yoda. This is the main point of your thesis (to estabilish Valkorion superiority over Sidious based on the Vitiate/Revan Sidious/Yoda engagement) and this is where everything collapses.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Yoda shits on Revan, and DE Sidious is far above RotS Sidious as well.

Not even remotely, Yoda has never once dominated someone as powerful as Revan.

Good job Valkorion is far more powerful than Vitiate.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Incinerating Nyriss is the single most impressive thing Revan has under his belt. The fluff doesn't matter.

Pretty sure Nyriss isn't as powerful as two large strike teams, who had the aid of Revan's ghost.

Yeah, it's not impressive for Revan when he both:

a. loses
and
b. kills no one

No matter who helps.


EDIT: Not to mention, this is supposed to be novel Revan anyway.

Originally posted by AncientPower
In what way are you not understanding that this only makes it more impressive for Revan? I don't give a shit about her uncharged, unamped lightning, this is same common sense Carthage struggled to reason with.

Of course you does! You used her lightning to estabilish her as Dooku's superior, thus trying to estabilish a quantification of Revan's powers compared to Yoda.



Revan ashing Nyriss is irrelevant, unless you manage to estabilish a direct connection with Yoda.

You are dismissing your own argument that can be direct compared and returning back to conjecture.

Given the power he is facing and the circumstances of the fights themselves, it is much more impressive.

Remove his need to empower the Temple and the aid both teams had from Revan's ghost, he's likely winning on both occasions. Ant already proved that.

Nyriss obviously isn't as powerful as the strike teams that go around defeating Malgus and the Dread Masters, yet Revan faced down two in a row and barely lost.

The OP is predicated on SOR Revan being eclipsed by Vitiate and then the much more powerful Valkorion.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Not even remotely, Yoda has never once dominated someone as powerful as Revan.

Good job Valkorion is far more powerful than Vitiate.

No, but he's stood up to beings more powerful than Vitiate, who creamed Revan.

Originally posted by TenebrousWay
Of course you does! You used her lightning to estabilish her as Dooku's superior, thus trying to estabilish a quantification of Revan's powers compared to Yoda.



Revan ashing Nyriss is irrelevant, unless you manage to estabilish a direct connection with Yoda.

You are dismissing your own argument that can be direct compared and returning back to conjecture.

Nyriss being amped and Revan being hindered by Dromund Kaas is what makes Revan destroying Nyriss with his raw power all the more impressive. So Revan's feat applies directly to how he'd deal with Count Dooku as well.

Replace Novel Revan with a far impressive SOR Revan, we have an established degree of raw power, right there.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Given the power he is facing and the circumstances of the fights themselves, it is much more impressive.

Remove his need to empower the Temple and the aid both teams had from Revan's ghost, he's likely winning on both occasions. Ant already proved that.

Nyriss obviously isn't as powerful as the strike teams that go around defeating Malgus and the Dread Masters, yet Revan faced down two in a row and barely lost.

The OP is predicated on SOR Revan being eclipsed by Vitiate and then the much more powerful Valkorion.

You fail to follow the premises of your own thesis. You need to quantify Revan's standing towards Yoda objectively.

Sorry but stating that this or that is "impressive" doesn't estabilish Revan's position regarding Yoda, as your thesis require. Unless you manage to do that, all of your argument is pure conjecture.

Originally posted by AncientPower ]Given the power he is facing and the circumstances of the fights themselves, it is much more impressive.

It really isn't, as none of these have any established power whatsoever. No matter the composition, the same victory happens regardless.

No, Ant made an assumption. Just like you're making an assumption that I'll touch on latter. You can't just arbitrarily make conclusions based on nothing, as every single one of these fights happen in gameplay.

Different Strike team

Also possibly a different strike team.

Yet another different strike team

They never lost at all.

Unless you know the power comparison between SOR Revan and Vitiate, and you don't, then there's no point in using that logic. You can't base that on his performance in their encounter in the novel.

A shame we'll never get actual writings of what happened in these Strike team fights, we just get the beginning and the end...no middle as to what happens since...well it's the player playing the fight.

Would be a hell of a lot easier for sure in debates, rather then making shit up as to what did or didn't happen and it kinda goes for almost all the boss fight in general really for TOR.

I agree that Valkorion is possibly more powerful than Sidious but him being far better than Revan doesn't prove that.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yoda's best tutaminis feat which has been replicated by Mother Talzin and to a degree, even Galen Marek.

Not that it isn't impressive, but your false equivalence aside, Vitiate's lightning is so far beyond Nyriss' that it's a comparative joke. Nyriss, whose lightning was capable of incinerating one of the three most powerful Jedi in three hundred years, and Scourge who tanked Xedrix's lightning. Who despite suffering from age is still wanked to be the third most powerful Sith in the empire by his time besides the Emperor himself.

Nyriss' lightning being amped also isn't remotely relevant to Revan's raw power, infact it only makes Revan more impressive that he is doing this on a nexus that he states blocks his farsight abilities. Then add three centuries of him gaining knowledge and the fact he is stated to have further intensified his powers as of SOR, and we have a guy that isn't just ashing Nyriss tier Force users, he's likely twice that degree of strength and mastery. Factoring in that he is freely abusing his Force in balance powers and is drawing on the dark side without any hesitation.

He went from losing to a single smaller strike team at the Foundry, to barely being defeated by two much larger and much more powerful groups, who were aided by his other half's spirit. All whilst dragging his dead body around through sheer will power and focusing his powers on the activation of the Temple of Sacrifice.

Darth Marr is simply one source among many, both in-universe and out of universe, that state Revan was insane for even believing he can defeat Vitiate.

There's really no counter here.

Talzin vs. Sidious was Canon, not Legends. In either case, the only powerscaling that you're working on comes from Nyriss's lightning, which is hilarious:

1. Sidious has disintegrated sithspawn and dark side acolytes with ease.
2. Sidious has literally bent a lightsaber blade with his lightning in Legends, debate over whether it happened in Canon notwithstanding.
3. Plagueis has vaporized squads of armored soldiers with uncharged telekinesis while seriously injured.
4. Yoda has tossed around droid control ships, which would take a helluva lot more energy than disintegrating people.

So you can reply by saying that Revan did it to Nyriss with ease, so it doesn't put a limit on his tutanimus. But you can't establish or quantify why powerscaling from that through Valkorion puts that above bending lightsaber blades; that conclusion is completely arbitrary. So at best for you, it's a wash.

That means we defer to other methods (ignoring the fact that this method favors Palpatine), such as:

1. Explicit statements of Palpatine's supremacy
2. Palpatine's greater cosmological threat to the Force
3. Palpatine's greater unaided telepathy feats
4. Palpatine's greater telekinesis feats
5. Palpatine's greater barrier feats
6. Palpatine's Force storms
7. Palpatine's greater overall combat ability

To which it is clear that Palpatine > Valkorion, and by a fair margin.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It really isn't, as none of these have any established power whatsoever. No matter the composition, the same victory happens regardless.

No, Ant made an assumption. Just like you're making an assumption that I'll touch on latter. You can't just arbitrarily make conclusions based on nothing, as every single one of these fights happen in gameplay.

Different Strike team

Also possibly a different strike team.

Yet another different strike team

They never lost at all.

Unless you know the power comparison between SOR Revan and Vitiate, and you don't, then there's no point in using that logic. You can't base that on his performance in their encounter in the novel.

Except Valkorion just made it pretty damn clear that the Outlander went through the Dread Masters, the Battle of Yavin IV and Ziost.

Except the game and all the characters make it exceptionally clear that Revan has no chance at all against Vitiate, who is just a pre-Ziost Valkorion.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
A shame we'll never get actual writings of what happened in these Strike team fights, we just get the beginning and the end...no middle as to what happens since...well it's the player playing the fight.

Would be a hell of a lot easier for sure in debates, rather then making shit up as to what did or didn't happen and it kinda goes for almost all the boss fight in general really for TOR.

Has anyone actually pmed one of the developers to ask what or who fought in actual battles in TOR?

Originally posted by carthage
Has anyone actually pmed one of the developers to ask what or who fought in actual battles in TOR?

Don't think so, because they don't want to hurt no one's personal story Canon of them being their own hero for the Republic/Empire. ...Even though, ya know it seems clear the Outlander is the Jedi Knight.