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Who wins?

Sue. Ravens powers are ambiguous.

Susan.

Raven.

Originally posted by Zack M
Raven.

Really...y? Not saying she cant beat Sue. Just curious

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Really...y? Not saying she cant beat Sue. Just curious

How is Sue going to beat Ravens soul self??

Originally posted by cdtm
Who wins?
Unsure.
Was going to ask this very question the other day.

Originally posted by Zack M
How is Sue going to beat Ravens soul self??

She doesnt need to. She can end it fast

Originally posted by Sin I AM
She doesnt need to. She can end it fast telekinesis, teleportation, energy shields, and telepathy doesn't bode well for sue.

Raven, and easily imo. It's not that Sue can't match her in raw power, it's that Raven has too many options without answers from Sue.

Still undecided.
Raven's just been shown to have some chops, but Sue does, too.
I've seen her repped in threads here where she's bubble brained high heralds FTW.

Originally posted by deathslash
telekinesis, teleportation, energy shields, and telepathy doesn't bode well for sue.

I never said raven wasnt powerful. Ijs Sue could drop her just as quickly

Yeah, Raven can do exactly what Sue can do and A LOT more. Raven at least 8/10.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I never said raven wasnt powerful. Ijs Sue could drop her just as quickly
Quicker, probably.

Looks like current Raven is getting a boost. Trigon style.

I always found her Trigon look rather appealing...
http://66.media.tumblr.com/a52951ff27d1c40c2adc3bef23cf902e/tumblr_mnn0kyS8Ga1r98mc7o9_r1_1280.jpg

Of course Sue's Malice look kinda does it for me, too.
http://static8.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/11/117763/2588964-malice.jpg

this would be really tough on sue, primarily because of the starting distance. i think her best bet would be a quickdraw win, but i don't think she can operate her powers very well at 500m. she might be able to extend a field that far, but detailed invisible creations controlled from that far? i don't think i've seen that. that means raven could release her soul self and sue's powers would be useless against it more than likely. even going invisible wouldn't help given raven's empathic powers.

shorten the distance and i could see sue taking a few, but this format would make winning really tough to figure for her.

Originally posted by Digi
Raven, and easily imo. It's not that Sue can't match her in raw power, it's that Raven has too many options without answers from Sue.

Well I'm not too sure about telepathy working against Sue, I know that telekinesis won't work, due to Jean Grey failing against her when Sue had to subdue her. Just wanted to make mention of that. Sue's willingness to fight the way she fought Doom is really in question here.

Originally posted by Stoic
Well I'm not too sure about telepathy working against Sue, I know that telekinesis won't work, due to Jean Grey failing against her when Sue had to subdue her. Just wanted to make mention of that. Sue's willingness to fight the way she fought Doom is really in question here.
I'd also like to ask about Raven's empathic ability being able to pinpoint invisible characters?

Originally posted by riv6672
I always found her Trigon look rather appealing...
http://66.media.tumblr.com/a52951ff27d1c40c2adc3bef23cf902e/tumblr_mnn0kyS8Ga1r98mc7o9_r1_1280.jpg

Of course Sue's Malice look kinda does it for me, too.
http://static8.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/11/117763/2588964-malice.jpg

I'd run away from both of them if I saw them. LOL

Originally posted by Stoic
I'd run away from both of them if I saw them. LOL
Oh man, i dunno...in both cases, it might be worth sticking around...!

direct tp has always been a bit of a question vs sue. she has stopped tk and she has shielded from psionic blasts in the past, but there is proof that standard tp would work. raven's tp isn't....typical though. she isn't mindraping sue in this. i think she COULD totally f with sue's emotions though. as regards her ability to detect invisible characters--raven doesn't need to see someone to feel their emotions. she has tracked people great distances by following their pain. sometimes the emotions overwhelm her, but that wouldn't be the case here. there's no real reason raven wouldn't know where sue was at all times. she also has some massive AOE style attacks that sue couldn't withstand (since there is no way to assume sue's force field would prevent her being manipulated emotionally--see psycho man....)

raven's ability to very effectively use combat teleportation would also give her a nice edge, especially with the starting distance. i could see her teleporting then just overwhelming sue with an emotional barrage of some sort, or just engulfing her in her soulself before sue could even move very far, invisible or not. sue's only real chance is quickdraw here imo. it's less a matter of who is more powerful in this case, than it is who's powers will be more effective. it;s pretty clear to me that in this case raven's would be the more effective. /shrug

^^^Nice breakdown!

Honestly, i love battles like this, where a strong case can be made either way.

It really boils down too preferences you have the Gothic Chick vs The Hot Librarian type.

^^^Well in THAT case...

...it makes it even HARDER!

I like both. But I'm going with Raven

I'd have to coin flip.

Originally posted by riv6672
I'd have to coin flip.

yea its very close

Originally posted by Vanguard
yea its very close

How doe Sue defeat Raven's soul self?

Originally posted by Vanguard
yea its very close
Yup.
Decent evidence presented for Raven; not a lot for Sue, surprisingly.

Originally posted by Senor Cage
How doe Sue defeat Raven's soul self?

Can Sue create a forcefield large enough so that Raven's Soul Self can't engulf Sue until Raven runs out of energy and has to revert to her human self?

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
Can Sue create a forcefield large enough so that Raven's Soul Self can't engulf Sue until Raven runs out of energy and has to revert to her human self?

Would that even stop the Soul Self?

Yeah prolly not

Originally posted by Stoic
I know that telekinesis won't work, due to Jean Grey failing against her when Sue had to subdue her.
This is only half true my friend. Jean had just woken up from a LONG coma and was dazed and confused. When they rematched when Sue was Ahab's hound and bloodlusted Jean held her off just fine while holding back so she wouldn't hurt Sue.

If Raven is at least as powerful as Jean TK wise, Sue is in trouble.